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Christari Zuborov
Amarr Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2008.12.31 16:33:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 31/12/2008 16:45:10
Originally by: Seishomaru
Now add to the equation a falcon can have like 3 or sometimes 4 jammers on you. And that takes like 15 seconds to lock the falcon (means time for another cycle basically to try). And Myself have already posted other times math evidence a falcon with 4 jammers, 1 from each race. Can keep a geddon jammed for 97% on a timeframe of 5 minutes.
If I go through the trouble of the math then I'm going through the trouble with regular fit ships. Geddons are ECM weak because of their 3 mid slots, but it's still capable of being ECCM fit.
MIDS being Booster, MWD, and ECCM, and 1 HS2 replaced with a sensor backup array gives the geddon what in sensor strength? 55-60?
I don't have EFT with me here, so we'll have to take it for granted unless you can give me a different answer.
Falcon jammer fits vary, but they typically are 2 caldari, 1 gallante, 1 minny, 1 amarr, 1 multi. You may see different if your fighting someone who expects to see one race. The racials on a decently skilled are 14.xx strength and close to 9 for the multi. Off racial strength is around 7.5.
With the racial jammer a 14 strength vs. 55 sensor strength is ( 14/55 = 25% chance) With the multi spec a 9 strength vs. 55 sensor strength is ( 9/55 = 16% chance) With the off racial jammer a 7.5 strength vs. 55 sensor strength is (7.5/55 = 13.6% chance)
That means that if the 2 racial were fitted towards amarran, you should expect to have a 50-50 shot at jamming using both racial jammers every cycle, or 2 hits every 4 tries.
Using the multi spec is 16%, or 2 out of every 12.5 tries.
Using all three off racials towards the amarran, you should expect a 40.8% shot at jamming using all three racial jammers every cycle.
If you were to use all 3 off racials and both racials every cycle, and we grouped them to count 1 racial and 1 off racial with their respective chances we'd be looking at a 50% and a 41% chance each cycle, or a grouped percentage of 90% for every cycle if you committed them all to the one ship.
I believe that's right...
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.12.31 17:20:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Colonel Xaven ECM won't be nerfed. Maybe the falcon with its range. But that won't stop the endless whining about the myth of being perma-jammed.
You come in anything smaller then a BS or a recon and I'll show you what perma jam means.
Does that include battlecruisers and T2 cruisers, not to mention key t2 frigates? Many ships have sensor strength greater than 14 which means even a max skilled falcon pilot with every slot dedicated to jamming strength will be unable to achieve an actual perma jam (99/100 jams is not permanent).
Yes, a great many ships below Battleship are incredibly vulnerable to ECM, but perhaps that is an indicator that they might need higher senor strengths or a better ECCM module.
Of course, I happen to be of the belief that ECM ships need to be tremendously powerful to be useful in fleet engagements. Unfortunately, the reality is that as gang sizes decrease it becomes more difficulty to include specialty ships to specific circumstances such as ECM interdiction when you're struggling to cover the basic needs of firepower, tank and tackle.
Among a great many suggestions, why is there no single ship class completely designed around anti-ewar in the same fashion as there are dedicated ECM ships? Seems to me if there was a ship who's sole purpose is prevent jams/dampening/turret disruption/painting but has almost no offensive capability it would provide the perfect counterbalance (not to mention a new contender for "biggest bullet magnet in the game").
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Xephys
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Posted - 2008.12.31 18:24:00 -
[33]
I agree with the boost to the ECCM. If you devote a slot to counter a specific EWAR, you should be near immune to it's effects.
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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2008.12.31 18:29:00 -
[34]
we all agreed on what should be done to nano's...anything but what had been done. We adapted and now everything is norm again...sort of.
If ANY single ship amasses in great numbers and makes it difficult for CCP's view of balance and diversity to exist in PVP...it WILL be nerfed. And most likely nerfed badly....
This is history. We could have all just trained nano's right? Just like right now we could all just train falcons.
In the future Falcons are getting hit.
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.31 18:33:00 -
[35]
I wonder which ship is the next on the complaining list of bad PvPers. Any ideas?
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Kitana Muerte
Rytiri Lva R.U.R.
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Posted - 2008.12.31 18:44:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Kitana Muerte on 31/12/2008 18:44:18
Originally by: Colonel Xaven I wonder which ship is the next on the complaining list of bad PvPers. Any ideas?
Zealot
Edit: it seems to me it will slowly nerf whole eve
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Soporo
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.31 19:59:00 -
[37]
Quote: I agree with the boost to the ECCM. If you devote a slot to counter a specific EWAR, you should be near immune to it's effects
No, you should be immune to ONE enemys midslot... maybe.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.03 15:48:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Yes, a great many ships below Battleship are incredibly vulnerable to ECM, but perhaps that is an indicator that they might need higher senor strengths or a better ECCM module.
Ofc things need higher sensors. It is quite silly that a counter to ecm only works on bigger ships when all the other racial ew counters work fine on all ship sizes.
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zombeee
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:03:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Murina Any you still think falcons are overpowered when you need at least one more ship to make them effective?.
Quite an understatement.
Originally by: Artemis Rose This is EVE, if you don't have overkill, you aren't doing it right.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:49:00 -
[40]
Refresh my memory but didn't the falcon get a boost during the summer of 2007 in terms of ECM strength? I'm not arguing for or against a nerf but rumors of the CCP sledgehammer may be overrated. Surely they won't take it back to pre- 2007 lvls.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Refresh my memory but didn't the falcon get a boost during the summer of 2007 in terms of ECM strength? I'm not arguing for or against a nerf but rumors of the CCP sledgehammer may be overrated. Surely they won't take it back to pre- 2007 lvls.
But they can nerf its range.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:53:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Refresh my memory but didn't the falcon get a boost during the summer of 2007 in terms of ECM strength? I'm not arguing for or against a nerf but rumors of the CCP sledgehammer may be overrated. Surely they won't take it back to pre- 2007 lvls.
But they can nerf its range.
Well my Tempest pre QR had an optimal of 198km. Now it's 156km. Fair is fair.
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.03 17:00:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Refresh my memory but didn't the falcon get a boost during the summer of 2007 in terms of ECM strength? I'm not arguing for or against a nerf but rumors of the CCP sledgehammer may be overrated. Surely they won't take it back to pre- 2007 lvls.
But they can nerf its range.
Well my Tempest pre QR had an optimal of 198km. Now it's 156km. Fair is fair.
Arties do need a LOT of love and id certainly support a major buff, but it is not a justification to nerf other systems.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.03 17:13:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
Well my Tempest pre QR had an optimal of 198km. Now it's 156km. Fair is fair.
They need to boost rigs yes.
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:13:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
Well my Tempest pre QR had an optimal of 198km. Now it's 156km. Fair is fair.
They need to boost rigs yes.
Yea just fix arties when you can sideways boost amarr again hey bud.....
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LoveDogg
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:16:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Opertone lol, no don't nerf falcons
instead, boost ECCM, the mechanics is very odd... with good ECCM you do get jammed, which is not a solution
if you fit ECCM and waste a slot for it, then ECCM must work... and currently even with 80 sensor strength falcon still jams you.
BOOST eccm
/signed
A boost the ECCM to make it really worth fitting is definitely the right approach.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:19:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Amira Shadowsong on 03/01/2009 19:19:08
Originally by: Murina
Yea just fix arties when you can sideways boost amarr again hey bud.....
You like doing total wrong leaps in logic.
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:20:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Murina
Yea WHY just fix arties when you can sideways boost amarr again hey bud.....
You like doing total wrong leaps in logic.
Fixed my typo..
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:40:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Amira Shadowsong on 03/01/2009 19:39:59
Originally by: Murina
Fixed my typo..
My point still stands, typo or not.
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Removal Tool
Eternal Perseverance
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:50:00 -
[50]
By all means. Let's all fly Falcons so we can all just perma jam each other because, hey, isn't that what everyone is looking for in a pvp game? And I am all for EW, but I like pizza too. But when I want pizza I don't buy 100 pizzas....because that would be too much
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:54:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Removal Tool
By all means. Let's all fly Falcons so we can all just perma jam each other because,
Gotta love the "PERMA" jam comments.....max jam str from a t2 falcon = 14ish, falcons sig str 28.......need i really do the math?.
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zombeee
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Posted - 2009.01.08 16:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Removal Tool
By all means. Let's all fly Falcons so we can all just perma jam each other because,
Gotta love the "PERMA" jam comments.....max jam str from a t2 falcon = 14ish, falcons sig str 28.......need i really do the math?.
They just take turns jamming each other then...
Originally by: Artemis Rose This is EVE, if you don't have overkill, you aren't doing it right.
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SirMoric
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.08 16:33:00 -
[53]
You know, there are working countermeasures against ECM, besides ECCM.
It's called: Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity
Linkage
Why don't you try and use it??
rgds
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Kailiao
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven I wonder which ship is the next on the complaining list of bad PvPers. Any ideas?
Recon piolets, arn't real pvpers, they just sit and ewar, and let there mates with balls acually pvp.
Get it right.
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Lacolo Basema
Caldari Vulcan Foundry
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:36:00 -
[55]
Screw you all for getting Falcons nerfed, I just finished training for them because they sounded cool, not because I follow the flavour of the month
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SirMoric
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:44:00 -
[56]
They won't get nerfed.
People just have to use the correct countermeasures instead of whining.
They are there, and they're working.
Unfortunately people won't alter their pwnmobile to avoid getting EW'ed, so they just whine instead.
If they nerf the Falcon, the game will loose a great deal of the diversity that exists, and pwnmobile-owners get their WoW-like EVE they cry for.
Noobs (I said it first, I win)
rgds
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Morte Noir
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Posted - 2009.01.08 20:04:00 -
[57]
no
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.08 20:25:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kailiao
Originally by: Colonel Xaven I wonder which ship is the next on the complaining list of bad PvPers. Any ideas?
Recon piolets, arn't real pvpers, they just sit and ewar, and let there mates with balls acually pvp.
Get it right.
Yea, that silly "team work" and "planning" thing ppl go on about is just a excuse for e-cowardice hey pal.........
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