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Think I can train Falcons before they nerf them?

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Freighter Jjoe	Posted - 2008.12.31 05:51:00 - [1] Basically about 18 days for Cald Cruiser V and maybe another 5 days for some additional electronics support skills (I already have > 1 mil in electronics). So the question is will CCP nerf them in the next month?
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.12.31 06:03:00 - [2] The Falcon is currently working as it was designed to and has no unintended flaws. While it may get nerfed in the future, CCP wouldn't announce and implement a fundamental change to a working ship within a month IMO. So you should be safe. FOR NOW.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.12.31 07:06:00 - [3] I highly doubt they'll nerf ECM to the point of being useless, so you should be safe. Plus, you can use Caldari Cruiser V for other nice ships, like a Cerb or something else. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Jukhta Mein Domini Umbrus R.U.R.	Posted - 2008.12.31 08:09:00 - [4] Freighter.
Project Cyborg Caldari EPIC INC Power Of 3	Posted - 2008.12.31 08:15:00 - [5] Originally by: Jukhta Mein Freighter. /signed ^^ thats how its used right?
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.12.31 08:47:00 - [6] Not only can you train for one before they get nerfed, but thanks to all the attention they're getting, it's very likely that they will get a major boost up to the level of the other force recons in the near future. -----------
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.31 10:13:00 - [7] I wouldn't. Actually training Caldari cruiser V only leads to one good ship. The Cerberus is ok, but not a good ship (no drones, missiles are bad for PvP). So Falcon is imho the only real good PvP ship in the Caldari line. Dunno if 1 ship is worth the training time. Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.12.31 10:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Colonel Xaven (no drones, missiles are bad for PvP) Correction: missiles on carebear ships that clueless newbies bring into PvP are bad for PvP. Missiles on proper PvP setups are excellent for PvP. Oh, and the Cerberus is the second-best HAC, just a little behind the Zealot. -----------
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.31 10:32:00 - [9] That might be your pov. The Cerb imho has too less mid slots to serve as a good pvp ship (hey, and I don't cry for a Cerb boost!). 5 slots for MWD, hardener, extender, SB + 1 slot for that you could choose between ECCM, TP, point or whatever. So for a special task ok, but as an overall roaming ship I just pick another vessel. Missiles give a good damage, but with the flight time you got an unnecessary disadvantage compared to turrets. Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Horizon Taker Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.12.31 11:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Colonel Xaven (no drones, missiles are bad for PvP) Correction: missiles on carebear ships that clueless newbies bring into PvP are bad for PvP. Missiles on proper PvP setups are excellent for PvP. Oh, and the Cerberus is the second-best HAC, just a little behind the Zealot. A wild troll appears!

Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.12.31 11:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Colonel Xaven I wouldn't. Actually training Caldari cruiser V only leads to one good ship. The Cerberus is ok, but not a good ship (no drones, missiles are bad for PvP). So Falcon is imho the only real good PvP ship in the Caldari line. Dunno if 1 ship is worth the training time. Oh, I don't know; the Basilisk has its uses, as does the Eagle from time to time. Caldari Cruiser 5 isn't a wasted skill to train, even if falcons get nerfed. Hense why I'm training it up on 3 accounts =) --
Kowaii Rabbit o1nk	Posted - 2008.12.31 11:46:00 - [12] Falcons will get nerfed. You can count on it. All it takes is persistent assault from the whine brigade on the forums who want to get owned by some other type of ship instead. And it will likely be a typical CCP sledghammer nerf intended to completely change the balance of play and wish you'd never spent your time and isk on it. The only question is 'when'.
General Coochie The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2008.12.31 12:01:00 - [13] Edited by: General Coochie on 31/12/2008 12:01:45 Every other fotm has been nerfed why shouldn't falcon? Someone said if they nerf it wont be by that much.. To be honest the only good nerf change I've seen CCP doing rather quick is the speed nerf (good work ccp) All other nerfs where sledgehammer nerfs and if it would be the same for the falcon most probably. If it follow the pattern then it would barely be able to ECM a single frigate out of the fight. Take the dual nerf to gallente ewar ships as an example, scripts + worse dampeners = almost useless ewar. Yes dampeners needed a nerf but the gallente recons did not most ppl seemed to agree about this. But here we are almost a year later and the gallente recons still suck, not so horribly much as before since warp scram boost and speed nerf, but still... The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Kowaii Rabbit Falcons will get nerfed. You can count on it. All it takes is persistent assault from the whine brigade on the forums who want to get owned by some other type of ship instead. And it will likely be a typical CCP sledghammer nerf intended to completely change the balance of play and wish you'd never spent your time and isk on it. The only question is 'when'. Getting owned by any other ship is fine. You know why? Because you can atleast fight back while going down. That is the core objection people are making against falcons/ecm. Welcome to eve. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Merin Ryskin but thanks to all the attention they're getting Yeah, more and more characters we've never heard from before are complaining about them...
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:33:00 - [16] ECM won't be nerfed. Maybe the falcon with its range. But that won't stop the endless whining about the myth of being perma-jammed. And yeah, Caldari cruiser 5 opens the way to basilisk, a very good Logistics besides the Guardian because of the energy transfer bonus. Oneiros and Scimitar don't have that. Omg, did I really mentioned that? Will the Basilisk nerfed now? Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Colonel Xaven ECM won't be nerfed. Maybe the falcon with its range. But that won't stop the endless whining about the myth of being perma-jammed. You come in anything smaller then a BS or a recon and I'll show you what perma jam means. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:36:00 - [18] Edited by: Murina on 31/12/2008 14:36:36 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Getting owned by any other ship is fine. You know why? Because you can atleast fight back while going down. That is the core objection people are making against falcons/ecm. Welcome to eve. drones, fof.... Of course with jammers gone the race with the best range dmg/ratios will be getting another side ways boost to their favored style of pvp.......who was that race again?.....
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Murina drones, fof.... Do fof and drones reach 240km? ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Murina drones, fof.... Do fof and drones reach 240km? Falcons can do dmg at 240km?.....

Freak Bus	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:51:00 - [21] Well I have to say that I'm waiting for them to be nerfed. I'm fed up seeing whole fleets made up entirely of these overly dominant raping monsters. Get Caldari 5 asap, jump into a falcon and laugh in local continually as you slaughter all the unknowing idiots.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. The Border Patrol	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:52:00 - [22] lol, no don't nerf falcons instead, boost ECCM, the mechanics is very odd... with good ECCM you do get jammed, which is not a solution if you fit ECCM and waste a slot for it, then ECCM must work... and currently even with 80 sensor strength falcon still jams you. BOOST eccm
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.31 14:56:00 - [23] Ok, Lyria, question: You enter a system with a well prepared gang. Falcons on, like you say, 240km. Falcons nerfed, fine, no more Falcons on 240km but on 150km and Rokhs / Scorpions at 200+ km. Will we see another complaint about these here? I'm just curious. Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers	Posted - 2008.12.31 15:51:00 - [24] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 31/12/2008 15:53:26 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Colonel Xaven ECM won't be nerfed. Maybe the falcon with its range. But that won't stop the endless whining about the myth of being perma-jammed. You come in anything smaller then a BS or a recon and I'll show you what perma jam means. Just a FYI - Logistics, CovOps, Ewar Frigates have a much greater sensor strength than a BS, with Recons having near twice (which are the most immune ships to ECM). BCs, CSs, BOps, are all 1 point of BSs in sensor strength in the Amarran lineup - HACS and HICS being 2 points off. So realistically, it doesn't matter what ship you fly, but whether you fit ECCM or not - of which, not a single one of your loss mails going back to 2007 has one fitted. So permajammed n00bs are permajammed n00bs...
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.31 16:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Murina drones, fof.... Do fof and drones reach 240km? Falcons can do dmg at 240km?..... Why would they need? Since they always are in an alt account and the main is in a ship that can deal the dps and tackle? Why the heck falcon pilots always bring the no damage issue? Do you think rapiers pilots or arazu pilots bother much with their damage? EWar ships are for E-WAR! I would gladly give up ALL damage from my rapier for it to be able to web at 150 km.
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2008.12.31 16:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Murina drones, fof.... Do fof and drones reach 240km? This range nerf and jamming cycle stops right away when cloaked or destroyed Falcon fixed.
Seishomaru	Posted - 2008.12.31 16:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 31/12/2008 16:01:48 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 31/12/2008 15:53:26 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Colonel Xaven ECM won't be nerfed. Maybe the falcon with its range. But that won't stop the endless whining about the myth of being perma-jammed. You come in anything smaller then a BS or a recon and I'll show you what perma jam means. Just a FYI - Logistics, CovOps, Ewar Frigates have a much greater sensor strength than a BS, with Recons having near twice (which are the most immune ships to ECM). BCs, CSs, BOps, are all 1 point of BSs in sensor strength in the Amarran lineup - HACS and HICS being 2 points off. So realistically, it doesn't matter what ship you fly, but whether you fit ECCM or not - of which, not a single one of your loss mails going back to 2007 has one fitted. So permajammed n00bs are permajammed n00bs... Just for your viewing pleasure, these are the strengths of several amarran ships chosen at random, one of each of their class of ship. HICs, HACs, BCs, BSs, and CSs make up the middle ground of the immunity to ECM. Frigate 8 Inty 9 Destroyer 10 AF 12 Cruiser 13 HAC 15 HIC 15 CS 16 BC 16 BS 17 BOp 17 Logistic 19 Ewar Frigate 21 CovOp 22 Recon 28 Now add to the equation a falcon can have like 3 or sometimes 4 jammers on you. And that takes like 15 seconds to lock the falcon (means time for another cycle basically to try). And Myself have already posted other times math evidence a falcon with 4 jammers, 1 from each race. Can keep a geddon jammed for 97% on a timeframe of 5 minutes.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.31 16:10:00 - [28] Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Murina Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Murina drones, fof.... Do fof and drones reach 240km? Falcons can do dmg at 240km?..... Why would they need? So the other recons can kill me solo but the falcon needs a extra tackler+dmg dealer along with it to kill me...as long as i do not have drones or fof that can kill the tackler/dmg dealer..... Any you still think falcons are overpowered when you need at least one more ship to make them effective?.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.31 16:12:00 - [29] Edited by: Murina on 31/12/2008 16:14:51 Originally by: Christari Zuborov Frigate 8 Inty 9 Destroyer 10 AF 12 Cruiser 13 HAC 15 HIC 15 CS 16 BC 16 BS 17 BOp 17 Logistic 19 Ewar Frigate 21 CovOp 22 Recon 28 Originally by: Seishomaru And that takes like 15 seconds to lock the falcon (means time for another cycle basically to try). 15 second lock time?????...WTF are you flying a carrier or a dread cos most of that list can lock considerably faster than 15 secs pal.
Adaera	Posted - 2008.12.31 16:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Dirk Magnum The Falcon is currently working as it was designed to and has no unintended flaws. While it may get nerfed in the future, CCP wouldn't announce and implement a fundamental change to a working ship within a month IMO. So you should be safe. FOR NOW. Just like they announced the ghost training change well in advance. Oh wait.

Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers	Posted - 2008.12.31 16:33:00 - [31] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 31/12/2008 16:45:10 Originally by: Seishomaru Now add to the equation a falcon can have like 3 or sometimes 4 jammers on you. And that takes like 15 seconds to lock the falcon (means time for another cycle basically to try). And Myself have already posted other times math evidence a falcon with 4 jammers, 1 from each race. Can keep a geddon jammed for 97% on a timeframe of 5 minutes. If I go through the trouble of the math then I'm going through the trouble with regular fit ships. Geddons are ECM weak because of their 3 mid slots, but it's still capable of being ECCM fit. MIDS being Booster, MWD, and ECCM, and 1 HS2 replaced with a sensor backup array gives the geddon what in sensor strength? 55-60? I don't have EFT with me here, so we'll have to take it for granted unless you can give me a different answer. Falcon jammer fits vary, but they typically are 2 caldari, 1 gallante, 1 minny, 1 amarr, 1 multi. You may see different if your fighting someone who expects to see one race. The racials on a decently skilled are 14.xx strength and close to 9 for the multi. Off racial strength is around 7.5. With the racial jammer a 14 strength vs. 55 sensor strength is ( 14/55 = 25% chance) With the multi spec a 9 strength vs. 55 sensor strength is ( 9/55 = 16% chance) With the off racial jammer a 7.5 strength vs. 55 sensor strength is (7.5/55 = 13.6% chance) That means that if the 2 racial were fitted towards amarran, you should expect to have a 50-50 shot at jamming using both racial jammers every cycle, or 2 hits every 4 tries. Using the multi spec is 16%, or 2 out of every 12.5 tries. Using all three off racials towards the amarran, you should expect a 40.8% shot at jamming using all three racial jammers every cycle. If you were to use all 3 off racials and both racials every cycle, and we grouped them to count 1 racial and 1 off racial with their respective chances we'd be looking at a 50% and a 41% chance each cycle, or a grouped percentage of 90% for every cycle if you committed them all to the one ship. I believe that's right...
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.12.31 17:20:00 - [32] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Colonel Xaven ECM won't be nerfed. Maybe the falcon with its range. But that won't stop the endless whining about the myth of being perma-jammed. You come in anything smaller then a BS or a recon and I'll show you what perma jam means. Does that include battlecruisers and T2 cruisers, not to mention key t2 frigates? Many ships have sensor strength greater than 14 which means even a max skilled falcon pilot with every slot dedicated to jamming strength will be unable to achieve an actual perma jam (99/100 jams is not permanent). Yes, a great many ships below Battleship are incredibly vulnerable to ECM, but perhaps that is an indicator that they might need higher senor strengths or a better ECCM module. Of course, I happen to be of the belief that ECM ships need to be tremendously powerful to be useful in fleet engagements. Unfortunately, the reality is that as gang sizes decrease it becomes more difficulty to include specialty ships to specific circumstances such as ECM interdiction when you're struggling to cover the basic needs of firepower, tank and tackle. Among a great many suggestions, why is there no single ship class completely designed around anti-ewar in the same fashion as there are dedicated ECM ships? Seems to me if there was a ship who's sole purpose is prevent jams/dampening/turret disruption/painting but has almost no offensive capability it would provide the perfect counterbalance (not to mention a new contender for "biggest bullet magnet in the game").
Xephys	Posted - 2008.12.31 18:24:00 - [33] I agree with the boost to the ECCM. If you devote a slot to counter a specific EWAR, you should be near immune to it's effects.
Eternum Praetorian Tupperware Party	Posted - 2008.12.31 18:29:00 - [34] we all agreed on what should be done to nano's...anything but what had been done. We adapted and now everything is norm again...sort of. If ANY single ship amasses in great numbers and makes it difficult for CCP's view of balance and diversity to exist in PVP...it WILL be nerfed. And most likely nerfed badly.... This is history. We could have all just trained nano's right? Just like right now we could all just train falcons. In the future Falcons are getting hit.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.31 18:33:00 - [35] I wonder which ship is the next on the complaining list of bad PvPers. Any ideas? Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Kitana Muerte Rytiri Lva R.U.R.	Posted - 2008.12.31 18:44:00 - [36] Edited by: Kitana Muerte on 31/12/2008 18:44:18 Originally by: Colonel Xaven I wonder which ship is the next on the complaining list of bad PvPers. Any ideas? Zealot Edit: it seems to me it will slowly nerf whole eve
Soporo Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.31 19:59:00 - [37] Quote: I agree with the boost to the ECCM. If you devote a slot to counter a specific EWAR, you should be near immune to it's effects No, you should be immune to ONE enemys midslot... maybe.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.03 15:48:00 - [38] Originally by: Derek Sigres Yes, a great many ships below Battleship are incredibly vulnerable to ECM, but perhaps that is an indicator that they might need higher senor strengths or a better ECCM module. Ofc things need higher sensors. It is quite silly that a counter to ecm only works on bigger ships when all the other racial ew counters work fine on all ship sizes.
zombeee	Posted - 2009.01.03 16:03:00 - [39] Originally by: Murina Any you still think falcons are overpowered when you need at least one more ship to make them effective?. Quite an understatement. Originally by: Artemis Rose This is EVE, if you don't have overkill, you aren't doing it right.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2009.01.03 16:49:00 - [40] Refresh my memory but didn't the falcon get a boost during the summer of 2007 in terms of ECM strength? I'm not arguing for or against a nerf but rumors of the CCP sledgehammer may be overrated. Surely they won't take it back to pre- 2007 lvls.

Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.03 16:50:00 - [41] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Refresh my memory but didn't the falcon get a boost during the summer of 2007 in terms of ECM strength? I'm not arguing for or against a nerf but rumors of the CCP sledgehammer may be overrated. Surely they won't take it back to pre- 2007 lvls. But they can nerf its range.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2009.01.03 16:53:00 - [42] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Refresh my memory but didn't the falcon get a boost during the summer of 2007 in terms of ECM strength? I'm not arguing for or against a nerf but rumors of the CCP sledgehammer may be overrated. Surely they won't take it back to pre- 2007 lvls. But they can nerf its range. Well my Tempest pre QR had an optimal of 198km. Now it's 156km. Fair is fair.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.03 17:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Refresh my memory but didn't the falcon get a boost during the summer of 2007 in terms of ECM strength? I'm not arguing for or against a nerf but rumors of the CCP sledgehammer may be overrated. Surely they won't take it back to pre- 2007 lvls. But they can nerf its range. Well my Tempest pre QR had an optimal of 198km. Now it's 156km. Fair is fair. Arties do need a LOT of love and id certainly support a major buff, but it is not a justification to nerf other systems.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.03 17:13:00 - [44] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Well my Tempest pre QR had an optimal of 198km. Now it's 156km. Fair is fair. They need to boost rigs yes.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:13:00 - [45] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Well my Tempest pre QR had an optimal of 198km. Now it's 156km. Fair is fair. They need to boost rigs yes. Yea just fix arties when you can sideways boost amarr again hey bud.....
LoveDogg	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Opertone lol, no don't nerf falcons instead, boost ECCM, the mechanics is very odd... with good ECCM you do get jammed, which is not a solution if you fit ECCM and waste a slot for it, then ECCM must work... and currently even with 80 sensor strength falcon still jams you. BOOST eccm /signed A boost the ECCM to make it really worth fitting is definitely the right approach.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:19:00 - [47] Edited by: Amira Shadowsong on 03/01/2009 19:19:08 Originally by: Murina Yea just fix arties when you can sideways boost amarr again hey bud..... You like doing total wrong leaps in logic.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:20:00 - [48] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Murina Yea WHY just fix arties when you can sideways boost amarr again hey bud..... You like doing total wrong leaps in logic. Fixed my typo..
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:40:00 - [49] Edited by: Amira Shadowsong on 03/01/2009 19:39:59 Originally by: Murina Fixed my typo.. My point still stands, typo or not.
Removal Tool Eternal Perseverance	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:50:00 - [50] By all means. Let's all fly Falcons so we can all just perma jam each other because, hey, isn't that what everyone is looking for in a pvp game? And I am all for EW, but I like pizza too. But when I want pizza I don't buy 100 pizzas....because that would be too much

Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:54:00 - [51] Originally by: Removal Tool By all means. Let's all fly Falcons so we can all just perma jam each other because, Gotta love the "PERMA" jam comments.....max jam str from a t2 falcon = 14ish, falcons sig str 28.......need i really do the math?.
zombeee	Posted - 2009.01.08 16:14:00 - [52] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Removal Tool By all means. Let's all fly Falcons so we can all just perma jam each other because, Gotta love the "PERMA" jam comments.....max jam str from a t2 falcon = 14ish, falcons sig str 28.......need i really do the math?. They just take turns jamming each other then... Originally by: Artemis Rose This is EVE, if you don't have overkill, you aren't doing it right.
SirMoric Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.01.08 16:33:00 - [53] You know, there are working countermeasures against ECM, besides ECCM. It's called: Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity Linkage Why don't you try and use it?? rgds
Kailiao Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:26:00 - [54] Originally by: Colonel Xaven I wonder which ship is the next on the complaining list of bad PvPers. Any ideas? Recon piolets, arn't real pvpers, they just sit and ewar, and let there mates with balls acually pvp. Get it right.
Lacolo Basema Caldari Vulcan Foundry	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:36:00 - [55] Screw you all for getting Falcons nerfed, I just finished training for them because they sounded cool, not because I follow the flavour of the month
SirMoric Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.01.08 17:44:00 - [56] They won't get nerfed. People just have to use the correct countermeasures instead of whining. They are there, and they're working. Unfortunately people won't alter their pwnmobile to avoid getting EW'ed, so they just whine instead. If they nerf the Falcon, the game will loose a great deal of the diversity that exists, and pwnmobile-owners get their WoW-like EVE they cry for. Noobs (I said it first, I win) rgds
Morte Noir	Posted - 2009.01.08 20:04:00 - [57] no
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.08 20:25:00 - [58] Originally by: Kailiao Originally by: Colonel Xaven I wonder which ship is the next on the complaining list of bad PvPers. Any ideas? Recon piolets, arn't real pvpers, they just sit and ewar, and let there mates with balls acually pvp. Get it right. Yea, that silly "team work" and "planning" thing ppl go on about is just a excuse for e-cowardice hey pal.........


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