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Wishpool
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:13:00 -
[31]
What's wrong with having a field command that excels at PVE? Contrary to popular belief not all people run missions/complexes solo. In this role the other field commands cannot touch it's usefulness.
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:18:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Gypsio III
This is basic, basic PVP knowledge, and only a true nullsecbear wouldn't know this.
Oh thank you that you have teached me the ultimate basics of PvP: That fitting a Drake correct makes it a great PvP ship (best BC in the field actually) and that HML on a command ship are more important than any ganglink.
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:21:00 -
[33]
No reason to bring a nighthawk over a drake if you dont want to use a command module,but fitting one is nearly impossible on a nighthawk. It needs a boost to be able to do what it meant to do.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:22:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Originally by: Gypsio III
This is basic, basic PVP knowledge, and only a true nullsecbear wouldn't know this.
Oh thank you that you have teached me the ultimate basics of PvP: That fitting a Drake correct makes it a great PvP ship (best BC in the field actually) and that HML on a command ship are more important than any ganglink.
I said that the ganglink was most important, you carebear fool. 
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:24:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Colonel Xaven on 02/01/2009 11:25:29
Edited by: Colonel Xaven on 02/01/2009 11:24:03
You said that the ganglink doesn't fit. It does if you set it in the first place and fit the rest after it.
/edit: typo
Oh and stop calling me carebear or fool. I didn't get personal either, did I? Reserve that for CAOD, failbear.
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.02 11:39:00 -
[36]
Sorry if I am the only one who realises this, but isn't their a mod in the game that boosts GRID and SHIELDS ? Nighthawk looks more like a passive tanker than a Active tanker sooooo fit some PDU's T2 and you have you extra GRID and improved your SHIELDS, quit whining, or give me low slot mods that bost grid + Armor amount. Adapt or die quit whining. You win some you lose some, NH may be sub-par, Falcons above -par , as i said you win some you lose some.
___________________________________________
Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.01.02 12:24:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lydia Browm
Sorry if I am the only one who realises this, but isn't their a mod in the game that boosts GRID and SHIELDS ? Nighthawk looks more like a passive tanker than a Active tanker sooooo fit some PDU's T2 and you have you extra GRID and improved your SHIELDS, quit whining, or give me low slot mods that bost grid + Armor amount. Adapt or die quit whining. You win some you lose some, NH may be sub-par, Falcons above -par , as i said you win some you lose some.
whatever.
the NH needs grid.
- DAMT -
If you dont know, well, you dont know!
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.02 12:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: NeoTheo
whatever.
the NH needs grid.
Along with so many other ships.
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 12:57:00 -
[39]
Edited by: BiggestT on 02/01/2009 12:57:48
Originally by: Lydia Browm
Sorry if I am the only one who realises this, but isn't their a mod in the game that boosts GRID and SHIELDS ? Nighthawk looks more like a passive tanker than a Active tanker sooooo fit some PDU's T2 and you have you extra GRID and improved your SHIELDS, quit whining, or give me low slot mods that bost grid + Armor amount. Adapt or die quit whining. You win some you lose some, NH may be sub-par, Falcons above -par , as i said you win some you lose some.
Epic fail detected.
You need an rcu because the grid given by a pdu is still not enough to allow for even a semi-decent fit. You obviously dont fly a nighthawk or even any caldari ship else you'd know this.
Nothing worse than ignorant trolls..
edit: I'd prefer a balanced nighthawk over my falcon anyday, coz a balanced nighthawk would actually be FUN to fly
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Lydia Browm
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 12:59:00 -
[40]
Originally by: NeoTheo
Originally by: Lydia Browm
Sorry if I am the only one who realises this, but isn't their a mod in the game that boosts GRID and SHIELDS ? Nighthawk looks more like a passive tanker than a Active tanker sooooo fit some PDU's T2 and you have you extra GRID and improved your SHIELDS, quit whining, or give me low slot mods that bost grid + Armor amount. Adapt or die quit whining. You win some you lose some, NH may be sub-par, Falcons above -par , as i said you win some you lose some.
whatever.
the NH needs grid.
Ishtar needs CPU, not happening. Ill post in a few misn after some EFT Warrioring
___________________________________________
Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.02 13:24:00 -
[41]
After some EFT-Warrioring lets do some Warrioring. 
Let's clear some issues: NH : Not made for solo ownage, so will be in a small gang, because your obviously fitting gang links, duhhh. So no need to have a scram - thats what gang mates are for, don't need a MWD when you have 84.4km range, and no optimal. Don't need a web, you have small drones.
So the problem, "Waaahhh, I can't fit Full rack of launchers and a Warfare Link!!"
But you can,
"It gimps the tank"
Fit PDU's
"They still don't give enough grid for a good tank, WAHHH"
"Use 'em as part of a passive tank"
"Waaah, I have no valid points! Prove itt WAHHHH"
Sure:
[Nighthawk, Owned?]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
Warrior II x5
And the problem with that iss?
117.8 EHP, 80 / 89 / 87 / 82 - Resist with the link active in a fleet with you as squad leader - Your not going solo so you may aswell
367 DPS - Wahh low dps - Who care, you have volley damage of 1774 - And you can fire as far as you can lock, no need to get into an optimal. Quit jabbering, then you also have FOF if you have tacklers on you and a Falcon's got you jammed.
WAHHHH That's a crap tank - 875 DPS tanked - Passively, not bad imo. 16k shield with above 80 resists. 20% of damge will be coming through. In otherwords a ship is going to have to do way more than 875 DPS to break your tank. And you will never run out of cap, well if you get neuted - but that's everyones worry ^^
___________________________________________
Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 13:37:00 -
[42]
Edited by: BiggestT on 02/01/2009 13:39:21
Originally by: Lydia Browm
Ishtar needs CPU, not happening. Ill post in a few misn after some EFT Warrioring
The ishtar does not need cpu, now ur just trolling. It fills its role fine and I never see any threads about it or any complaints whatso-ever. I bet fitting a co-pro wld fix your problems.
Even if a nh fits an rcuII it still doesnt have enough grid to fill its role properly.
I really dont understand people that ignorantly argue against others for no for-seeable reason other than trolling.
Edit: that fit has no mwd (an mwd is essential for normal pvp not just range control. If you dont know this then I suggest you stop posting untill you learn) or dcu, it fails hard.
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Lydia Browm
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 13:39:00 -
[43]
Originally by: BiggestT
Edited by: BiggestT on 02/01/2009 13:38:10
Edit: that fit has no mwd or dcu, it fails hard.
Fails hard because? Put a DCU on and reduce tank so it's more likely to fail. And you need a MWD because ?
___________________________________________
Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 13:41:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Lydia Browm
Originally by: BiggestT
Edited by: BiggestT on 02/01/2009 13:38:10
Edit: that fit has no mwd or dcu, it fails hard.
Fails hard because? Put a DCU on and reduce tank so it's more likely to fail. And you need a MWD because ?
read the edit again. dcu is essential, similar to an invuln but free's a mid. Also adds to survivability when tank breaks so that you can get out or get better use of friendly armour rr when ur in trouble.
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Lydia Browm
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 13:43:00 -
[45]
Sticking a DCU on is like saying, I know i'm going to fail! So i'll just stick a module on thats gonna make me last for less time because i'm taking away from my tank. Face it if your tank is broken your dead regardless. Why do you need to dictate range? You have no optimal + You should be in a gang.
___________________________________________
Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 13:50:00 -
[46]
Edited by: BiggestT on 02/01/2009 13:51:10
Originally by: Lydia Browm
Sticking a DCU on is like saying, I know i'm going to fail! So i'll just stick a module on thats gonna make me last for less time because i'm taking away from my tank. Face it if your tank is broken your dead regardless. Why do you need to dictate range? You have no optimal + You should be in a gang.
OMG you think fitting a dcu is nerfing your tank?
LOL
You're not looking any better. I used to think the same about dcu's myself, untill I actually used them on shield tanking ships and realised how useful they are. Hint: A dcu is going to give you similar resists to that second invuln but (as i said and you failed to comprehend) frees a mid and gives better resists to structure and armour. In the days of rr, I fail to see how utilising armour rr to better effect if your tank fails is a bad thing. Sure it may sound like planning to fail, but its actaully planning to live.
And PLEASE read the post preperly. I said its useful NOT just for range control, but pvp in general, if you dont know what im talking aobut, I suggest you go fly one without a mwd and figure out why its needed.
fake edit: Oh yeah and your nh fails coz a drake wld probably get better dps than that setup. EFT whoring is bad mkay
Face it, the nh needs a grid boost, this isnt just the odd person saying its the majority. Your the only person ive ever seen thats trying to argue against (for a reason I dont really understand other than for the sake of arguing) a nh grid boost.
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Lydia Browm
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 13:57:00 -
[47]
The reason I'm arguing is the NH has been out over a year now, no-one complained before so why now. Just leave it as be. just because you have a ship gimped in one ship class doesn't mean it's the end of the world. If every ship you had was gimped yeah, i'd understand but you win some you loose some.
___________________________________________
Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Wishpool
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Posted - 2009.01.02 13:58:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Wishpool on 02/01/2009 14:00:56
Edited by: Wishpool on 02/01/2009 13:59:07
If NH's so broken then why is it by far the most widely used and most expensive field command? (Before anyone says "It's not awesome enough at PVP." please show evidence that CCP intends for every ship in game to be judged solely on PVP application.)
Seems to me like NH pilots are just unhappy they can't fit everything their hearts desire on a ship. Every ship in game gets tight on either CPU or grid. That's part of the challenge of fitting them.
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BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.02 14:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lydia Browm
The reason I'm arguing is the NH has been out over a year now, no-one complained before so why now. Just leave it as be. just because you have a ship gimped in one ship class doesn't mean it's the end of the world. If every ship you had was gimped yeah, i'd understand but you win some you loose some.
The nighthawk used to be a good boat even in spite of these flaws due to a lack of competition. The introduction of tier 2 bc's (drakes), meant that its role could be done for much cheaper for only a slight performance loss. As such, the nighthawks flaws become much more pronounced in light of its cost, hence it should be viable in a slightly different niche (ie gang mod).
@ Wishpool, the reason the nighthawk is popular is because it fluked being a good misison running boat. Hence it is expensive due to supply/demmand. Note that the drake is also good for pve and pvp due to its cost efficiency.
The nighthawk (and all CS) were designed as pvp boats. All have an ability to mission run if needed, nighthawk just happens to excel at it. Mission running IS NOT their role (thats marauders). I think its a joke that all the other races get pvp cs' and we get a pve cs, and I doubt that its CCP's intention at all.
Note that i have no problem with any other ships fitting, as they all have their roles and sacrifices are allowable. But considering the nighthawks lack of a niche and cost efficeincy i think it needs a grid buff.
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Wishpool
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 14:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: Lydia Browm
The reason I'm arguing is the NH has been out over a year now, no-one complained before so why now. Just leave it as be. just because you have a ship gimped in one ship class doesn't mean it's the end of the world. If every ship you had was gimped yeah, i'd understand but you win some you loose some.
The nighthawk used to be a good boat even in spite of these flaws due to a lack of competition. The introduction of tier 2 bc's (drakes), meant that its role could be done for much cheaper for only a slight performance loss. As such, the nighthawks flaws become much more pronounced in light of its cost, hence it should be viable in a slightly different niche (ie gang mod).
@ Wishpool, the reason the nighthawk is popular is because it fluked being a good misison running boat. Hence it is expensive due to supply/demmand. Note that the drake is also good for pve and pvp due to its cost efficiency.
The nighthawk (and all CS) were designed as pvp boats. All have an ability to mission run if needed, nighthawk just happens to excel at it. Mission running IS NOT their role (thats marauders). I think its a joke that all the other races get pvp cs' and we get a pve cs, and I doubt that its CCP's intention at all.
Note that i have no problem with any other ships fitting, as they all have their roles and sacrifices are allowable. But considering the nighthawks lack of a niche and cost efficeincy i think it needs a grid buff.
But what's wrong with having a PVE command ship? I'm not talking about solo, I'm talking about when doing group missions the NH is clearly the CS for the job. Wanting this ship to be a PVE beast as well as a PVP beast is asking a lot. Why not focus on making the other CS's better at PVE? Then you can complain that the NH isn't good enough at PVP.
Also, what says field commands were designed specifically for PVP? It seems like more and more that PVPers forget this game isn't just for them.
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.01.02 14:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Lydia Browm
Originally by: BiggestT
Edited by: BiggestT on 02/01/2009 13:38:10
Edit: that fit has no mwd or dcu, it fails hard.
Fails hard because? Put a DCU on and reduce tank so it's more likely to fail. And you need a MWD because ?
because its larger than a cruiser, it has a significant hull, therefore it needs a friggin DCU. your extra 20 dps tanked with the regen mod isnt worth 50% extra hull, extra resists on both shield and armor.
DCUII's are a sensible fit on ANY BC or above sized ship.
not only that, in the land of the bubbles, (ie 0,0), its really stupid not to fit a burner or a microw, you need to be able to get back to gate, or at least out of bubble.
/Theo
- DAMT -
If you dont know, well, you dont know!
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.01.02 14:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lydia Browm
The reason I'm arguing is the NH has been out over a year now, no-one complained before so why now.
dude how long have you been playing? people have been *****ing about the NH's grid since release.
- DAMT -
If you dont know, well, you dont know!
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 15:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: PsychoBones
Edited by: PsychoBones on 02/01/2009 10:29:54
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Besides the fact that Drakes are useless too for PvP?
I forgot how much fun it is to argue with the NC. Just because a Drake is useless for PvP in the hands of a proud NC carebear doesn't mean it's useless for PvP all around.
[Drake, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5
Edited for relevance: The fact that the Nighthawk can't even fit this even though it fills the same role as the Drake (Missile spewing Battlecruiser hull) makes it broken in my books.[/
Thats a nice PvP Drake, I use the same, tho I use cheaper resitance rigs.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:16:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 02/01/2009 15:17:15
Originally by: Wishpool
Edited by: Wishpool on 02/01/2009 14:00:56
Edited by: Wishpool on 02/01/2009 13:59:07
If NH's so broken then why is it by far the most widely used and most expensive field command? (Before anyone says "It's not awesome enough at PVP." please show evidence that CCP intends for every ship in game to be judged solely on PVP application.)
Seems to me like NH pilots are just unhappy they can't fit everything their hearts desire on a ship. Every ship in game gets tight on either CPU or grid. That's part of the challenge of fitting them.
Your logic is flawd. "Every ship do not have to be PvP benchmarked". Wrong! That only applies for a class of ship (read marauders) when one ship form on race fails its intended role and teh only use for is is missions, then the ship is flawed (example, astarte and abosultion rock for PvP)
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Wishpool
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:22:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Wishpool on 02/01/2009 15:23:58
Then by your reasoning the Raven should be the least used, most pathetic BS in the game. If eve was PVP only then the game wouldn't even need to include missions/complexes/belt rats/industry at all. It's your logic that's flawed, The entire player base and ship categories are not geared solely for the role of PVP.
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Wishpool
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:28:00 -
[56]
Having one of the four field commands be better for group PVE is a good thing. If you really want the NH to be easily compared to the other field commands then ask for it to be changed to a rail platform. It is a ferox hull after all. Then you can have your equivalent power grid and face the fitting challenges that come with turrets. Then you can cry on here about how you can't fit the highest tier rails plus a command link on it.
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polaris 111
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:29:00 -
[57]
it may have less powergrid but get this..
the drake has a reasonibly better tank than the others
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:30:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Your logic is flawd. "Every ship do not have to be PvP benchmarked". Wrong! That only applies for a class of ship (read marauders) when one ship form on race fails its intended role and teh only use for is is missions, then the ship is flawed (example, astarte and abosultion rock for PvP)
Every ship is able to pvp. Every siongle one. More or less. That's part of the interesting challenge in EVE. Don't try to equalize everything, it's just boring.
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 15:42:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Wishpool
Having one of the four field commands be better for group PVE is a good thing. If you really want the NH to be easily compared to the other field commands then ask for it to be changed to a rail platform. It is a ferox hull after all. Then you can have your equivalent power grid and face the fitting challenges that come with turrets. Then you can cry on here about how you can't fit the highest tier rails plus a command link on it.
Having one for PvE? No! Thats not how it should be, either the entire class of ships are good for PvE or PvP, not race spesific ships. And since when did the ship hull determine the weapon type? Missiles is more or less Caldari main weapons, and the Vulture already have hybrid bonuses. Besides, I never had any problems fitting a turret command ship, at all. Cause they have the grid for it.
Originally by: Wishpool
Edited by: Wishpool on 02/01/2009 15:23:58
Then by your reasoning the Raven should be the least used, most pathetic BS in the game. If eve was PVP only then the game wouldn't even need to include missions/complexes/belt rats/industry at all. It's your logic that's flawed, The entire player base and ship categories are not geared solely for the role of PVP.
What are you on about? Raven is good both for PvP and PvE (if you use a PvE fit in PvP you are doing it wrong). If you think missiles is just a PvE thing, your are gravley mistaken. Also, its a command ship that can use gang modules, thats a big PvP thing, and nigh usless for PvE unless you somhow can't manage to solo the missions.
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Your logic is flawd. "Every ship do not have to be PvP benchmarked". Wrong! That only applies for a class of ship (read marauders) when one ship form on race fails its intended role and teh only use for is is missions, then the ship is flawed (example, astarte and abosultion rock for PvP)
Every ship is able to pvp. Every siongle one. More or less. That's part of the interesting challenge in EVE. Don't try to equalize everything, it's just boring.
But that fact that I would use a Drake over a NH for PVP makes the NH worhtless and too expencive. The Drake can even tank better.
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:47:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
But that fact that I would use a Drake over a NH for PVP makes the NH worhtless and too expencive. The Drake can even tank better.
I see you get the difference between a commandship and a battlecruiser
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
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