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Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.02 15:59:00 - [61] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Originally by: Sidus Isaacs But that fact that I would use a Drake over a NH for PVP makes the NH worhtless and too expencive. The Drake can even tank better. I see you get the difference between a commandship and a battlecruiser The Drake have more grid to fit a command module, and battle cruisers can fit one (in case you did not know, you should try it, you might find out that it rocks)! The only marignally advantage the NH have now over the Drake, is a tad better dps, but worse tank, and being a T2 ship is bound to be primary way before the Drake. So yeah, I know the difference pretty well, but I do not like to waste isk on a bad ship hwen I can use an insruable T1 ship, maby you do.
Cade Morrigan Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.02 16:30:00 - [62] OK stop asking for NH grid improvements and start asking to have the others nerfed. If reasonable requests (like more grid so command module plus full rack of weapons will fit) to make the NH more on par with the others for pvp get such treatment from the "some ships should suck" crowd, then start 15 new "nerf xxxx" treads to bring them down to the NH. See, I'm a solutions guy... problem is NH doesn't have enough grid... fix is to make it so NONE of the command ships have enough. Tada!
Catholic Priest Caldari Doom Guard Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.01.02 17:01:00 - [63] Love my nighthawk.. Another midslot and i'd be happy.
Cade Morrigan Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.02 17:27:00 - [64] Originally by: Catholic Priest Love my nighthawk.. Another midslot and i'd be happy. What do you use your NH for?
Soporo Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.02 17:38:00 - [65] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw it fits pvp support NH: 5 HML T2 1 seige harm link 2 large shield extenders T2 1 EM shield hardener T2 2 Invu fields T2 2 PDU T2 1 DCU T2 2 BCU T2 2 shield extender rigs. 1 +5% PG rig and max skills. mwd? need for implant? why other races command ships dont need it? low dps? still medicore tank? why would anybody use this instead of another command ship? ^^ Or a Drake. A plus 5% implant required for that fit, is that a joke? Do you have any idea how much those cost? Not to mention that sadly, in 0.0 you NEED to have a lolAB or MWD or you just Fail and get podded with your ridiculously expensive implant in some bubble. It's the only field command that has (much) less grid than it's BC counterparts. Less grid than some Cruisers, even.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.01.02 17:54:00 - [66] Originally by: PsychoBones Edited by: PsychoBones on 02/01/2009 10:29:54 Originally by: Colonel Xaven Besides the fact that Drakes are useless too for PvP? I forgot how much fun it is to argue with the NC. Just because a Drake is useless for PvP in the hands of a proud NC carebear doesn't mean it's useless for PvP all around. [Drake, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Hobgoblin II x5 Edited for relevance: The fact that the Nighthawk can't even fit this even though it fills the same role as the Drake (Missile spewing Battlecruiser hull) makes it broken in my books. Put an offlined large bomb into that last high for kicks. Also rages are now very useful with increased damage and decreased explosion radius, might want to load them. Gets close to 700dps. Anyway that's a proper drake setup. Always brings a smile on my face reading that "web on drake?" or "lol did your drake just mwd to me" sort of comments from dead people in local. As for NH being good for pve... it isn't really. It can tank a lvl4 but that doesnt mean it's low dps is making you any money.
Catholic Priest Caldari Doom Guard Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.01.02 18:02:00 - [67] Edited by: Catholic Priest on 02/01/2009 18:02:23 Originally by: Cade Morrigan Originally by: Catholic Priest Love my nighthawk.. Another midslot and i'd be happy. What do you use your NH for? Stupid Expensive BTW... Highs: 6x Caldari Navy Launchers 1x Siege Gang mod of Choice or 1x Medium Energy Neutralizer or 1x True Sansha's Medium Smartbomb Meds: 1x Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster 1x Pith A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier 1x Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field 1x Kaikka's Invulnerability Field 1x Medium Cap Booster - 800s or Large Cap Battery or Shield Boost Amplifier for missions Lows: 2x Cormack's Modified Power Diagnostic System 2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control units 1x Damage Control unit Rigs: 1x Capacitor Control Circuit II 1x Shield Defence Operational Solidifier II Implants: Full High Grade Crystal Set Cap Recharge Heavy Missile ROF + Damage Siege Warfare Mindlink I know it's expensive but It works Great. Perma Runs a 1800 p/s tank in gang. 2100 with a standard blue pill. About 1600 p/s outside of it. Cap Booster just incase of those pesky Curse/Domi guys.. Around 550 p/s damage with drones.. I just wish it had some tackle. And yes I know it costs a fortune.. I know i could outfit 20 more for the isk.. But I love it!
maCH'EttE Counter Errorist Unit	Posted - 2009.01.02 19:08:00 - [68] As a 100% spec. Caldari PVPer, I have to say that I love the NH. I would also have to say it definately needs more PG. The only way I can get similar tank / DPS from a NH, compared to other CS is by fitting an AB instead of an MWD, which is a major drawback. Originally by: Devil Hanzo (ISD) I got pwned!
Wishpool	Posted - 2009.01.02 20:20:00 - [69] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Also, its a command ship that can use gang modules, thats a big PvP thing... Wrong. Gang modules is a big GANG thing, not just a PVP thing.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.02 20:51:00 - [70] Originally by: Wishpool Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Also, its a command ship that can use gang modules, thats a big PvP thing... Wrong. Gang modules is a big GANG thing, not just a PVP thing. Yeah, and gangs are above else mostly used in PvP sitiations. Why do you ever need to gang up for PvE? Unless you are running a 10/10 complex?
Euriti Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.02 21:35:00 - [71] Edited by: Euriti on 02/01/2009 21:39:33 You are all tap dancing around the subject and it's pretty pathetic watching so I'll give an objective analysis based on a reasonable PvP fitting and the grid requirements of said fitting. First, we need to set a few goals that we must achieve when fitting this ship. Following goals are reasonable and follow what other CS can achieve: GOALS: Fitting a full rack of Tech 2 weapons equal to the size of the ship Fitting a gang mod Fitting an MWD Fitting a decent buffer These are reasonable fitting requirements in terms of modules The fitting should NOT require T2 RCU, several RCUs, 5% grid modules or extreme skills. TEST FITTING: Now, lets try to put together a fitting that just fill in these requirements using the Nighthawk hull. [Nighthawk, NH] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] This fitting takes up 1181 out of 887,5 power grid with max skills. Therefore it lacks 300 powergrid to fill out basic requirements for a CS. Fitting an RCU I bring this 1181 out of 976,25 power grid and fitting an RCU II brings this to 1181 out of 1020,63 power grid. It still lacks 160 power grid with a tech 2 reactor control unit. Raising the powergrid to 875 before skills would give it 1093,75 power grid with engineering 5. With an RCU I this will increase to 1203,125 powergrid, enough to cover the requirements and additional 1 pg modules. A SHORT SUMMARY: Increasing the powergrid from 710 to 875 would make it possible to fill in the required fitting goals mentioned in the start of the thread. In situations where gang modules are not being fitted you are able to fit HAM IIs. Quote: El'Tar > IM UR PET NOW
Baron Holbach Pernicious Creed	Posted - 2009.01.02 21:43:00 - [72] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Anyone who does not like the Caldari command ships should go for any other race's cs. Simple. Nighthawk is fine, just fit it passive for PVE, power and cpu are enough... so your saying the nighthawk is only made for pve?? damn, wish ccp had included that in the commandship desctription
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.02 21:46:00 - [73] I didn't want to say that NH is for PvE only. Once again. Actually there are guys (in this thread, too) who can fit a NH for PvP well. As for those who can't, ask for a fit or look for another ship if you fail. Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.02 21:48:00 - [74] Originally by: Colonel Xaven I didn't want to say that NH is for PvE only. Once again. Actually there are guys (in this thread, too) who can fit a NH for PvP well. As for those who can't, ask for a fit or look for another ship if you fail. You seem to miss the point that while it can be done (and more ofthen then not require fitting mods and implant), the other races still do it better, the NH has a severe lack of grid to even fit the basics as mentioned above.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.02 21:50:00 - [75] Originally by: Colonel Xaven failbear. actually the only failbear ive seen in this thread so far is you and your stupid posts witch shows a total lack of understanding of what missile ships can do in pvp, and what most ppl here feels the nighthawk should be able to do. Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:13:00 - [76] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Colonel Xaven failbear. actually the only failbear ive seen in this thread so far is you and your stupid posts witch shows a total lack of understanding of what missile ships can do in pvp, and what most ppl here feels the nighthawk should be able to do. Just take the quote out of context and try to underline your boost-NH-opinion by offensing me personally. Unfortunately what "most ppl here" want to does not matter because the people who do not whine in forums are able to fit and fly those ships, means they are obviously more flexible than others... Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:20:00 - [77] [Nighthawk, HML GM] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Yes, with AWU V and two RCU IIs, you too can get a basic PVP fit on a Nighthawk! But don't try to upgrade to a T2 MWD, that kind of overpoweredness would break Eve as we know it!
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:21:00 - [78] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Unfortunately what "most ppl here" want to does not matter because the people who do not whine in forums are able to fit and fly those ships, means they are obviously more flexible than others... well, show me pvp setups for a nighthawk (both solo and small gang) that can compete with the drake setups posted in this thread then Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Karan Kaldarian Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:21:00 - [79] My Nh has 178.75 cpu left 208.2 pwgrid left Every Wlink use 5000cpu and 200 grid. So the grid is ok and for the cpu I think that 99% cpu bonus role make sense. 5000x99% = 50 cpu. I remain with 128.2 cpu left free. I do not have Siege Warfare level v to test but I think that it can be easy fitted. High 6xcn hmisslaunch 1x free Medium 3x hardeners (depending on rats) 1x10mn ab 1xlarge sh extII Low 1x shield power relayII 4xcn bcs Rigs 2xcdpf Never had a problem with all those 4 lev missionZ. All support skills at lev 5.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:26:00 - [80] Originally by: Karan Kaldarian PvE stuffs Well, the problem is not PvE, its a proper PvP setup and use.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:27:00 - [81] Edited by: Gypsio III on 02/01/2009 22:27:29 Originally by: Karan Kaldarian My Nh has 178.75 cpu left 208.2 pwgrid left Every Wlink use 5000cpu and 200 grid. So the grid is ok and for the cpu I think that 99% cpu bonus role make sense. 5000x99% = 50 cpu. I remain with 128.2 cpu left free. I do not have Siege Warfare level v to test but I think that it can be easy fitted. High 6xcn hmisslaunch 1x free Medium 3x hardeners (depending on rats) 1x10mn ab 1xlarge sh extII Low 1x shield power relayII 4xcn bcs Rigs 2xcdpf Never had a problem with all those 4 lev missionZ. All support skills at lev 5. We're not talking about PVE here.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:30:00 - [82] Originally by: Karan Kaldarian Never had a problem with all those 4 lev missionZ. All support skills at lev 5. we all know that the nh works like a dream in pve, thats not the issue here. heavens forbid that we might actually be talking about pvp setups Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:33:00 - [83] Originally by: Euriti A SHORT SUMMARY: Increasing the powergrid from 710 to 875 would make it possible to fill in the required fitting goals mentioned in the start of the thread. In situations where gang modules are not being fitted you are able to fit HAM IIs. there is the problem. . . ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.
Karan Kaldarian Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:45:00 - [84] Edited by: Karan Kaldarian on 02/01/2009 22:49:08 we all know that the nh works like a dream in pve, thats not the issue here. heavens forbid that we might actually be talking about pvp setups ops...sorry. ..squire hardwirings?
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:56:00 - [85] Originally by: ArmyOfMe well, show me pvp setups for a nighthawk (both solo and small gang) that can compete with the drake setups posted in this thread then There are various in this thread already. The point is that most people see the NH as better battlecruiser. I'm afraid to say it, but it isn't. A BlackOps is not a battleship, an AF is not a tackler, a logistics is not a damage dealer and so on. I hope you understand my point. Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Soporo Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.02 23:03:00 - [86] Originally by: Euriti Edited by: Euriti on 02/01/2009 21:39:33 You are all tap dancing around the subject and it's pretty pathetic watching so I'll give an objective analysis based on a reasonable PvP fitting and the grid requirements of said fitting. First, we need to set a few goals that we must achieve when fitting this ship. Following goals are reasonable and follow what other CS can achieve: GOALS: Fitting a full rack of Tech 2 weapons equal to the size of the ship Fitting a gang mod Fitting an MWD Fitting a decent buffer These are reasonable fitting requirements in terms of modules The fitting should NOT** require multiple T2 RCU, several RCUs, 5% grid modules or extreme skills. TEST FITTING: Now, lets try to put together a fitting that just fill in these requirements using the Nighthawk hull. [Nighthawk, NH] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] This fitting takes up 1181 out of 887,5 power grid with max skills. Therefore it lacks 300 powergrid to fill out basic requirements for a CS. Fitting an RCU I bring this 1181 out of 976,25 power grid and fitting an RCU II brings this to 1181 out of 1020,63 power grid. It still lacks 160 power grid with a tech 2 reactor control unit. Raising the powergrid to 875 before skills would give it 1093,75 power grid with engineering 5. With an RCU I this will increase to 1203,125 powergrid, enough to cover the requirements and additional 1 pg modules. A SHORT SUMMARY:** Increasing the powergrid from 710 to 875 would make it possible to fill in the required fitting goals mentioned in the start of the thread. In situations where gang modules are not being fitted you are able to fit HAM IIs. /Thread.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.02 23:08:00 - [87] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Originally by: ArmyOfMe well, show me pvp setups for a nighthawk (both solo and small gang) that can compete with the drake setups posted in this thread then There are various in this thread already. The point is that most people see the NH as better battlecruiser. I'm afraid to say it, but it isn't. A BlackOps is not a battleship, an AF is not a tackler, a logistics is not a damage dealer and so on. I hope you understand my point. then for the love of god tell us what a commandship is then.. Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.01.02 23:27:00 - [88] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Originally by: ArmyOfMe well, show me pvp setups for a nighthawk (both solo and small gang) that can compete with the drake setups posted in this thread then There are various in this thread already. The point is that most people see the NH as better battlecruiser. I'm afraid to say it, but it isn't. A BlackOps is not a battleship, an AF is not a tackler, a logistics is not a damage dealer and so on. I hope you understand my point. So why the other 3 field command ships are way better than their battlecruiser variants, even when they fit a command module?
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.02 23:47:00 - [89] Originally by: ArmyOfMe then for the love of god tell us what a commandship is then.. please inform us of the role commandships should have http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Nighthawk Originally by: Naomi Knight So why the other 3 field command ships are way better than their battlecruiser variants, even when they fit a command module? Because every race has its pros and cons. That's EVE and otherwise it would be boring. Take fitting a NH as a challenge, be creative. Or just use another CS if they are so way better. Or use a Drake, it's cheaper Nerf Falcons, boost nighthawks, omg my blasters don't have range, nerf rails, nerf amarr, I need more slots and so on... Seriously. Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.02 23:54:00 - [90] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Because every race has its pros and cons. That's EVE and otherwise it would be boring. Take fitting a NH as a challenge, be creative. Or just use another CS if they are so way better. Or use a Drake, it's cheaper Nerf Falcons, boost nighthawks, omg my blasters don't have range, nerf rails, nerf amarr, I need more slots and so on... Seriously. dear god, does your brain actually work at all? you have yet to come up with anything other then trolling to all the ppl here that have posted numbers proving that the nighthawk cant compete with the other commandships, and have a hard time competing with the drake, yet you still make posts without any sort of constuctive content. please think before posting if its at all possible for you Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything

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