Originally by: TimMc

---

Its awesome at mission running, the rest of them suck at it... any you want more? Heavy missile launchers do not take as much PG as the other races guns, but I do agree it should have a nicer CPU (or perhaps the others are too high).

---

Originally by: Foulque

---

Comparing a T2 ship to it's actual T1 cousin might be a good idea. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with the Nighthawk but you're numbers are completely pointless with the different slot layouts of the ships.

---

Originally by: Soporo

---

A comparison of the Field Command ships, all races:

Nighthawk/Cald CPU 555 Powergrid 710 <- wth?
Sleipner/Mims CPU 475 Powergrid 1460
Astarte/Gallente CPU 440 Powergrid 1550
Absolution/Amarr CPU 400 Powergrid 1575

Now compare the t2 Battlecruisers:

Drake/Caldari CPU 525 Powergrid 850 <- ...
Myrm/Gall CPU 400 Powergrid 1175
Hurricane/Mim CPU 400 Powergrid 1350
Harby/Amarr CPU 375 Powergrid 1500

As you can see, barring the NH, every single other field command has a noticeable improvement in grid (and cpu) over it's BC counterpart.

The NH's grid is so anemic that even the lowly Moa, a T1 Cruiser! (780 grid) trumps it.

Can anyone provide a reasonable explanation for keeping this ships grid so incomparably low for so long?

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

People should try to understand for what particular ships are designed for.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Nighthawk is fine, just fit it passive for PVE

---

Originally by: PsychoBones

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Nighthawk is fine, just fit it passive for PVE

---

"The Nighthawk is fine, as long as you fit only this one setup, and only use it for PvE" Your logic is astounding.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Originally by: PsychoBones

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Nighthawk is fine, just fit it passive for PVE

---

"The Nighthawk is fine, as long as you fit only this one setup, and only use it for PvE" Your logic is astounding.

---

You quotet me wrong.
It's just the displeasure of a few people to adapt (and quote correct) what doesn't make sense.

---

Originally by: NoNah

---

Brutix(1150) -> Astarte(1450) = +1 Turret
Harbinger(1500) -> Absolution(1575) = +/-0 Turrets
Drake(850) -> Nighthawk(710) = -1 Launcher
Cyclone(1200) -> Sleipnir(1460) = +2 Turrets

---

Originally by: PsychoBones

---

And no, you can't make a useful Nighthawk setup for PvP that's any better than a Drake.

---

Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw

---

it fits

pvp support NH:

5 HML T2
1 seige harm link
2 large shield extenders T2
1 EM shield hardener T2
2 Invu fields T2
2 PDU T2
1 DCU T2
2 BCU T2
2 shield extender rigs.

1 +5% PG rig and max skills.


this is a pretty nice anti support NH.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Besides the fact that Drakes are useless too for PvP?

---

Originally by: Naomi Knight

---

3 rigs worth more than the whole bc with the fit ....

---

Originally by: PsychoBones

---

Edited by: PsychoBones on 02/01/2009 10:40:02

Originally by: Naomi Knight

---

3 rigs worth more than the whole bc with the fit ....

---

No more expensive than the Purger rigs Drake pilots are so fond of. If you can afford them, why not? If you can't afford them, don't fit them. But just because somebody can't afford/ won't fit rigs on a BC doesn't mean the BC sucks. And it doesn't change the fact that the Nighthawk can't do that. A similar Nighthawk fit requires an RCU and does only 60 DPS more, while having 4000 less shields (with slightly higher resists), and only a scram, no web. For 4x the cost.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Sigh.
Have you ever flown a Drake (with that fitting)?
And I'm sorry that you don't get the difference between roles of battlecruisers and field command ships.

---

Originally by: Gypsio III

---

This is basic, basic PVP knowledge, and only a true nullsecbear wouldn't know this.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Originally by: Gypsio III

---

This is basic, basic PVP knowledge, and only a true nullsecbear wouldn't know this.

---

Oh thank you that you have teached me the ultimate basics of PvP: That fitting a Drake correct makes it a great PvP ship (best BC in the field actually) and that HML on a command ship are more important than any ganglink.

---

Originally by: Lydia Browm

---

Sorry if I am the only one who realises this, but isn't their a mod in the game that boosts GRID and SHIELDS ? Nighthawk looks more like a passive tanker than a Active tanker sooooo fit some PDU's T2 and you have you extra GRID and improved your SHIELDS, quit whining, or give me low slot mods that bost grid + Armor amount. Adapt or die quit whining. You win some you lose some, NH may be sub-par, Falcons above -par , as i said you win some you lose some.

---

Originally by: NeoTheo

---

whatever.

the NH needs grid.

---

Originally by: Lydia Browm

---

Sorry if I am the only one who realises this, but isn't their a mod in the game that boosts GRID and SHIELDS ? Nighthawk looks more like a passive tanker than a Active tanker sooooo fit some PDU's T2 and you have you extra GRID and improved your SHIELDS, quit whining, or give me low slot mods that bost grid + Armor amount. Adapt or die quit whining. You win some you lose some, NH may be sub-par, Falcons above -par , as i said you win some you lose some.

---

Originally by: NeoTheo

---

Originally by: Lydia Browm

---

Sorry if I am the only one who realises this, but isn't their a mod in the game that boosts GRID and SHIELDS ? Nighthawk looks more like a passive tanker than a Active tanker sooooo fit some PDU's T2 and you have you extra GRID and improved your SHIELDS, quit whining, or give me low slot mods that bost grid + Armor amount. Adapt or die quit whining. You win some you lose some, NH may be sub-par, Falcons above -par , as i said you win some you lose some.

---

whatever.

the NH needs grid.

---

Originally by: Lydia Browm

---

Ishtar needs CPU, not happening. Ill post in a few misn after some EFT Warrioring

---

Originally by: BiggestT

---

Edited by: BiggestT on 02/01/2009 13:38:10


Edit: that fit has no mwd or dcu, it fails hard.

---

Originally by: Lydia Browm

---

Originally by: BiggestT

---

Edited by: BiggestT on 02/01/2009 13:38:10


Edit: that fit has no mwd or dcu, it fails hard.

---

Fails hard because? Put a DCU on and reduce tank so it's more likely to fail. And you need a MWD because ?

---

Originally by: Lydia Browm

---

Sticking a DCU on is like saying, I know i'm going to fail! So i'll just stick a module on thats gonna make me last for less time because i'm taking away from my tank. Face it if your tank is broken your dead regardless. Why do you need to dictate range? You have no optimal + You should be in a gang.

---

Originally by: Lydia Browm

---

The reason I'm arguing is the NH has been out over a year now, no-one complained before so why now. Just leave it as be. just because you have a ship gimped in one ship class doesn't mean it's the end of the world. If every ship you had was gimped yeah, i'd understand but you win some you loose some.

---

Originally by: BiggestT

---

Originally by: Lydia Browm

---

The reason I'm arguing is the NH has been out over a year now, no-one complained before so why now. Just leave it as be. just because you have a ship gimped in one ship class doesn't mean it's the end of the world. If every ship you had was gimped yeah, i'd understand but you win some you loose some.

---

The nighthawk used to be a good boat even in spite of these flaws due to a lack of competition. The introduction of tier 2 bc's (drakes), meant that its role could be done for much cheaper for only a slight performance loss. As such, the nighthawks flaws become much more pronounced in light of its cost, hence it should be viable in a slightly different niche (ie gang mod).

@ Wishpool, the reason the nighthawk is popular is because it fluked being a good misison running boat. Hence it is expensive due to supply/demmand. Note that the drake is also good for pve and pvp due to its cost efficiency.

The nighthawk (and all CS) were designed as pvp boats. All have an ability to mission run if needed, nighthawk just happens to excel at it. Mission running IS NOT their role (thats marauders). I think its a joke that all the other races get pvp cs' and we get a pve cs, and I doubt that its CCP's intention at all.

Note that i have no problem with any other ships fitting, as they all have their roles and sacrifices are allowable. But considering the nighthawks lack of a niche and cost efficeincy i think it needs a grid buff.

---

Originally by: Lydia Browm

---

Originally by: BiggestT

---

Edited by: BiggestT on 02/01/2009 13:38:10


Edit: that fit has no mwd or dcu, it fails hard.

---

Fails hard because? Put a DCU on and reduce tank so it's more likely to fail. And you need a MWD because ?

---

Originally by: Lydia Browm

---

The reason I'm arguing is the NH has been out over a year now, no-one complained before so why now.

---

Originally by: PsychoBones

---

Edited by: PsychoBones on 02/01/2009 10:29:54

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Besides the fact that Drakes are useless too for PvP?

---

I forgot how much fun it is to argue with the NC. Just because a Drake is useless for PvP in the hands of a proud NC carebear doesn't mean it's useless for PvP all around.

[Drake, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5

Edited for relevance: The fact that the Nighthawk can't even fit this even though it fills the same role as the Drake (Missile spewing Battlecruiser hull) makes it broken in my books.[/

---

Originally by: Wishpool

---

Edited by: Wishpool on 02/01/2009 14:00:56
Edited by: Wishpool on 02/01/2009 13:59:07
If NH's so broken then why is it by far the most widely used and most expensive field command? (Before anyone says "It's not awesome enough at PVP." please show evidence that CCP intends for every ship in game to be judged solely on PVP application.)

Seems to me like NH pilots are just unhappy they can't fit everything their hearts desire on a ship. Every ship in game gets tight on either CPU or grid. That's part of the challenge of fitting them.

---

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

---

Your logic is flawd. "Every ship do not have to be PvP benchmarked". Wrong! That only applies for a class of ship (read marauders) when one ship form on race fails its intended role and teh only use for is is missions, then the ship is flawed (example, astarte and abosultion rock for PvP)

---

Originally by: Wishpool

---

Having one of the four field commands be better for group PVE is a good thing. If you really want the NH to be easily compared to the other field commands then ask for it to be changed to a rail platform. It is a ferox hull after all. Then you can have your equivalent power grid and face the fitting challenges that come with turrets. Then you can cry on here about how you can't fit the highest tier rails plus a command link on it.

---

Originally by: Wishpool

---

Edited by: Wishpool on 02/01/2009 15:23:58

Then by your reasoning the Raven should be the least used, most pathetic BS in the game. If eve was PVP only then the game wouldn't even need to include missions/complexes/belt rats/industry at all. It's your logic that's flawed, The entire player base and ship categories are not geared solely for the role of PVP.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

---

Your logic is flawd. "Every ship do not have to be PvP benchmarked". Wrong! That only applies for a class of ship (read marauders) when one ship form on race fails its intended role and teh only use for is is missions, then the ship is flawed (example, astarte and abosultion rock for PvP)

---

Every ship is able to pvp. Every siongle one. More or less. That's part of the interesting challenge in EVE. Don't try to equalize everything, it's just boring.

---

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

---

But that fact that I would use a Drake over a NH for PVP makes the NH worhtless and too expencive. The Drake can even tank better.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

---

But that fact that I would use a Drake over a NH for PVP makes the NH worhtless and too expencive. The Drake can even tank better.

---

I see you get the difference between a commandship and a battlecruiser

---

Originally by: Catholic Priest

---

Love my nighthawk..
Another midslot and i'd be happy.

---

Originally by: Naomi Knight

---

Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw

---

it fits

pvp support NH:

5 HML T2
1 seige harm link
2 large shield extenders T2
1 EM shield hardener T2
2 Invu fields T2
2 PDU T2
1 DCU T2
2 BCU T2
2 shield extender rigs.

1 +5% PG rig and max skills.

---

mwd?
need for implant? why other races command ships dont need it?
low dps?
still medicore tank?

why would anybody use this instead of another command ship?

---

Originally by: PsychoBones

---

Edited by: PsychoBones on 02/01/2009 10:29:54

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Besides the fact that Drakes are useless too for PvP?

---

I forgot how much fun it is to argue with the NC. Just because a Drake is useless for PvP in the hands of a proud NC carebear doesn't mean it's useless for PvP all around.

[Drake, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5

Edited for relevance: The fact that the Nighthawk can't even fit this even though it fills the same role as the Drake (Missile spewing Battlecruiser hull) makes it broken in my books.

---

Originally by: Cade Morrigan

---

Originally by: Catholic Priest

---

Love my nighthawk..
Another midslot and i'd be happy.

---

What do you use your NH for?

---

Originally by: Devil Hanzo (ISD)

---

I got pwned!

---

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

---

Also, its a command ship that can use gang modules, thats a big PvP thing...

---

Originally by: Wishpool

---

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

---

Also, its a command ship that can use gang modules, thats a big PvP thing...

---

Wrong. Gang modules is a big GANG thing, not just a PVP thing.

---

• Fitting a full rack of Tech 2 weapons equal to the size of the ship

• Fitting a gang mod

• Fitting an MWD

• Fitting a decent buffer

Quote:

---

El'Tar > IM UR PET NOW

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Anyone who does not like the Caldari command ships should go for any other race's cs. Simple. Nighthawk is fine, just fit it passive for PVE, power and cpu are enough...

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

I didn't want to say that NH is for PvE only. Once again. Actually there are guys (in this thread, too) who can fit a NH for PvP well. As for those who can't, ask for a fit or look for another ship if you fail.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

failbear.

---

Originally by: deadmaus

---

Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything

Originally by: ArmyOfMe

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

failbear.

---

actually the only failbear ive seen in this thread so far is you and your stupid posts witch shows a total lack of understanding of what missile ships can do in pvp, and what most ppl here feels the nighthawk should be able to do.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Unfortunately what "most ppl here" want to does not matter because the people who do not whine in forums are able to fit and fly those ships, means they are obviously more flexible than others...

---

Originally by: deadmaus

---

Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything

Originally by: Karan Kaldarian

---

PvE stuffs

---

Originally by: Karan Kaldarian

---

My Nh has
178.75 cpu left
208.2 pwgrid left

Every Wlink use 5000cpu and 200 grid. So the grid is ok and for the cpu I think that 99% cpu bonus role make sense. 5000x99% = 50 cpu. I remain with 128.2 cpu left free.
I do not have Siege Warfare level v to test but I think that it can be easy fitted.

High
6xcn hmisslaunch
1x free

Medium
3x hardeners (depending on rats)
1x10mn ab
1xlarge sh extII

Low
1x shield power relayII
4xcn bcs

Rigs
2xcdpf

Never had a problem with all those 4 lev missionZ.
All support skills at lev 5.

---

Originally by: Karan Kaldarian

---

Never had a problem with all those 4 lev missionZ.
All support skills at lev 5.

---

Originally by: deadmaus

---

Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything

Originally by: Euriti

---

A SHORT SUMMARY:

Increasing the powergrid from 710 to 875 would make it possible to fill in the required fitting goals mentioned in the start of the thread. In situations where gang modules are not being fitted you are able to fit HAM IIs.

---

Originally by: ArmyOfMe

---

well, show me pvp setups for a nighthawk (both solo and small gang) that can compete with the drake setups posted in this thread then

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

Edited by: Euriti on 02/01/2009 21:39:33
You are all tap dancing around the subject and it's pretty pathetic watching so I'll give an objective analysis based on a reasonable PvP fitting and the grid requirements of said fitting.

First, we need to set a few goals that we must achieve when fitting this ship. Following goals are reasonable and follow what other CS can achieve:

GOALS:

• Fitting a full rack of Tech 2 weapons equal to the size of the ship

• Fitting a gang mod

• Fitting an MWD

• Fitting a decent buffer

These are reasonable fitting requirements in terms of modules
The fitting should NOT require multiple T2 RCU, several RCUs, 5% grid modules or extreme skills.

TEST FITTING:
Now, lets try to put together a fitting that just fill in these requirements using the Nighthawk hull.

[Nighthawk, NH]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

This fitting takes up 1181 out of 887,5 power grid with max skills. Therefore it lacks 300 powergrid to fill out basic requirements for a CS. Fitting an RCU I bring this 1181 out of 976,25 power grid and fitting an RCU II brings this to 1181 out of 1020,63 power grid. It still lacks 160 power grid with a tech 2 reactor control unit. Raising the powergrid to 875 before skills would give it 1093,75 power grid with engineering 5. With an RCU I this will increase to 1203,125 powergrid, enough to cover the requirements and additional 1 pg modules.

A SHORT SUMMARY:

Increasing the powergrid from 710 to 875 would make it possible to fill in the required fitting goals mentioned in the start of the thread. In situations where gang modules are not being fitted you are able to fit HAM IIs.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Originally by: ArmyOfMe

---

well, show me pvp setups for a nighthawk (both solo and small gang) that can compete with the drake setups posted in this thread then

---

There are various in this thread already. The point is that most people see the NH as better battlecruiser. I'm afraid to say it, but it isn't. A BlackOps is not a battleship, an AF is not a tackler, a logistics is not a damage dealer and so on. I hope you understand my point.

---

Originally by: deadmaus

---

Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Originally by: ArmyOfMe

---

well, show me pvp setups for a nighthawk (both solo and small gang) that can compete with the drake setups posted in this thread then

---

There are various in this thread already. The point is that most people see the NH as better battlecruiser. I'm afraid to say it, but it isn't. A BlackOps is not a battleship, an AF is not a tackler, a logistics is not a damage dealer and so on. I hope you understand my point.

---

Originally by: ArmyOfMe

---

then for the love of god tell us what a commandship is then..
please inform us of the role commandships should have

---

Originally by: Naomi Knight

---

So why the other 3 field command ships are way better than their battlecruiser variants, even when they fit a command module?

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Because every race has its pros and cons. That's EVE and otherwise it would be boring. Take fitting a NH as a challenge, be creative. Or just use another CS if they are so way better. Or use a Drake, it's cheaper

Nerf Falcons, boost nighthawks, omg my blasters don't have range, nerf rails, nerf amarr, I need more slots and so on... Seriously.

---

Originally by: deadmaus

---

Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything

Originally by: ArmyOfMe

---

dear god, does your brain actually work at all?

you have yet to come up with anything other then trolling to all the ppl here that have posted numbers proving that the nighthawk cant compete with the other commandships, and have a hard time competing with the drake, yet you still make posts without any sort of constuctive content.

please think before posting if its at all possible for you

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Originally by: ArmyOfMe

---

then for the love of god tell us what a commandship is then..
please inform us of the role commandships should have

---

http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Nighthawk

Originally by: Naomi Knight

---

So why the other 3 field command ships are way better than their battlecruiser variants, even when they fit a command module?

---

Because every race has its pros and cons. That's EVE and otherwise it would be boring. Take fitting a NH as a challenge, be creative. Or just use another CS if they are so way better. Or use a Drake, it's cheaper

Nerf Falcons, boost nighthawks, omg my blasters don't have range, nerf rails, nerf amarr, I need more slots and so on... Seriously.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Having stated that one race's ship is not as good as another race's is clearly a reason to beg for slots / cpu / grid / speed / bonus whatever?

Following your logic means boosting / nerfing half (?) of all ships in game so that all races are equalized. No need to crosstrain anymore. Everyone has the same abilities. No surprises - same damage, same tank abilities, same speed etc. Bring the numbers. Kinda boring, isn't it?

Anyways, the NH isn't going to be modified yet. But feel free to make more posts about it to underline the "need" of, falcon like.

But really, it is fun to discuss with you, people. Kinda lot of rage posts, but fun.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Nighthawk is fine, just fit it passive for PVE, power and cpu are enough...

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Sigh.
And I'm sorry that you don't get the difference between roles of battlecruisers and field command ships.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

People should try to understand for what particular ships are designed for.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

I never stated that the NH can compete with other command ships.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Every ship is able to pvp. Every siongle one. More or less. That's part of the interesting challenge in EVE. Don't try to equalize everything, it's just boring.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

I see you get the difference between a commandship and a battlecruiser

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

I didn't want to say that NH is for PvE only. Once again. Actually there are guys (in this thread, too) who can fit a NH for PvP well. As for those who can't, ask for a fit or look for another ship if you fail.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Nighthawk is fine, just fit it passive for PVE, power and cpu are enough...

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Unfortunately what "most ppl here" want to does not matter because the people who do not whine in forums are able to fit and fly those ships, means they are obviously more flexible than others...

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

The point is that most people see the NH as better battlecruiser. I'm afraid to say it, but it isn't.

---

Originally by: deadmaus

---

Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything

Originally by: SirMoric

---

Maybe the Nighthawk is sub-par, but we have the Falcon to compensate.

See what I just did??

It's the splendid about EVE, not all ships are alike and each race gain some and also loose some.

Otherwise we could just go and play WoW.

rgds

---

Originally by: SirMoric

---

Maybe the Nighthawk is sub-par, but we have the Falcon to compensate.

See what I just did??

It's the splendid about EVE, not all ships are alike and each race gain some and also loose some.

Otherwise we could just go and play WoW.

rgds

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Ok, ArmyofMe, since your going to be angry it seems I try to give you some answers. Flame on then.

Q1: Function of a command ship?
A1: Giving bonus to gang / fleet > tank > dps. Yes, there are other CS which are way better. Race's pros and cons. (Drake's function: Being bait > tank > dps )

---

Quote:

---

Q2: NH only for PVE?
A2: No, you misread / I mistyped. NH is able to PvP, too. Solo is possible aswell. Not best, ok, so what?

---

Quote:

---

Q3: What's the point of not having stated that NH is not as good as other CS?
A3: ... too late for such a question.

---

Quote:

---

Q4a: Shouldnt ships of the same class be somewhat equal?
A4a: No, no and no. And that exactly is the difference in your way of thinking and the way game designers think. They want you to be flexible, they want you to crosstrain etc.

---

Quote:

---

Q4b: Are you saying that its quite ok that the nighthawk sucks in pvp compared to the others?
A4b: Yes. Arazu sucks aswell compared to other recons. Now what? Boost Arazus? Endless story.

---

Quote:

---

Q5: So how many nighthawks have you seen flying around doing solo pvp?
A4: Not many because i.e. a Vagabond does a way much better job for that. But I haven't seen a BlackOps in small gangs, too. Guess why?

---

Quote:

---

Q6: Or did you just call us to dumb to find good fittings for the nh to make it able to compete with other commandships?
A6: I've never called someone dumb. But yes, that was exactly my intention - I strongly want a NH for soloing because command ships are perfect made for that.

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

BiggesT, I'll make it short if you allow, it's 4am here:

I do not insist of NH as PvE only ship. I've stated that more than once.

If you want to have a tank / dps ship, yes, the Drake is the better choice. And cheaper.

I just didn't get the question which I've not answered. Sorry.

In the way of equal ship abilities: Fine, we have our opinions. I respect yours. Please respect mine. CCP will make its own way anyways.

I've seen Arazus very often in gangs, now theyre very rare. Dampning nerf. Someone called for it? Dunno, I dont care, I don't fly them. But from what I heard it was a good ship.

I've seen your bob friends doing a great job with 2 Black Ops (Panther, Widow, forgot names) + covert ops gang in Tribute. They used it as it was intended - and did very well (hard to say, but yeah...). Black Ops don't need a buff imho, its just horribly expensive coz nobodys uses them (Because it's not tank+gank-intended? Who knows..)

Last point: I just used sarkasm. I'm sorry that you define that as trolling and I didn't intend to say anyone in here is a nub. The opposite is the case. I think it's absolutely ok to have another opinion. I hope you you don't think it's not.

Gn8 soldiers.

---

Quote:

---

They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Originally by: PsychoBones

---

And no, you can't make a useful Nighthawk setup for PvP that's any better than a Drake.

---

Besides the fact that Drakes are useless too for PvP?

---

Originally by: Foulque

---

Originally by: Colonel Xaven

---

Originally by: PsychoBones

---

And no, you can't make a useful Nighthawk setup for PvP that's any better than a Drake.

---

Besides the fact that Drakes are useless too for PvP?

---

That's a joke right? Or do you go along with the masses with your full rack of Shield power Relay II + HML IIs?

---

Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

A SHORT SUMMARY:

Increasing the powergrid from 710 to 875 would make it possible to fill in the required fitting goals mentioned in the start of the thread. In situations where gang modules are not being fitted you are able to fit HAM IIs.

---

there is the problem. . .

---

Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

A SHORT SUMMARY:

Increasing the powergrid from 710 to 875 would make it possible to fill in the required fitting goals mentioned in the start of the thread. In situations where gang modules are not being fitted you are able to fit HAM IIs.

---

there is the problem. . .

---

Quote:

---

El'Tar > IM UR PET NOW

---

Originally by: Mystic Pete

---

You cannot fit it's launchers + ganklink without fitting mods. The launchers use less grid is a lame argument when it cannot fit the most straight forward mods for it's role. As a missionrunning ship it soon stops being king if you fit a link. As you may be gathering here it's a commandship that cannot fit a link without some seriouls effort that compromises it's few advantages over the Drake.

The Nighthawk needs more grid.

Even just another 200 to cover the link.

The Nighthawk needs more grid.

---

Originally by: Vanthropy

---

[Drake, Gank/buffer]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Stasis Webifier II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5






[Nighthawk, not subpar]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Reactor Control Unit II
Reactor Control Unit II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5


but yes, it sucks that you have to fit two RCU II's

but you get,

slightly better tank
100 more dps
and a gang mod

cost effective? no.
is anything in eve? t1 frigs yes

less pg for less pg eating weapons? oh.. but bam the sleip uses even less pg for it's weapons.
lots more cpu though,

---

Originally by: Xindi Kraid

---

OP does not understand fitting.
Launchers use mainly CPU, THe Nighthawk has more CPU than the drake, thus it has more fitting room for launchers.

All of the other ships you are comparing it to are gunships.

---

Originally by: Norwood Franskly

---

That active tank fit is fail it has no gang link, no mwd and it's only using a large booster (even if it is faction).

Sleipnir fits an XL booster, gang link, mwd and injector, beating that active tank in every way.

The only viable NH fit I can see is to go full buffer and have crap dps. May as well suck it up and get a vulture, you get bonused gang links then.

---

Originally by: BiggestT

---

Originally by: SirMoric

---

Maybe the Nighthawk is sub-par, but we have the Falcon to compensate.

See what I just did??

It's the splendid about EVE, not all ships are alike and each race gain some and also loose some.

Otherwise we could just go and play WoW.

rgds

---

Although this statement sounds ok, the goal of CCP is to achieve perfect balance.
As each ship class has its role, and each race is fundamentally different by design, this is by no means a goal for monotony.

---

Originally by: SirMoric

---

Originally by: BiggestT

---

Originally by: SirMoric

---

Maybe the Nighthawk is sub-par, but we have the Falcon to compensate.

See what I just did??

It's the splendid about EVE, not all ships are alike and each race gain some and also loose some.

Otherwise we could just go and play WoW.

rgds

---

Although this statement sounds ok, the goal of CCP is to achieve perfect balance.
As each ship class has its role, and each race is fundamentally different by design, this is by no means a goal for monotony.

---

Okay then, lets remove all races except one. You like that? Cause that is what is happening when all ships in all classes are "equal".

rgds

---

Originally by: Compendium

---

As I have already stated, I fly a sleipnir as well. This thread is about the nighthawk, remember? What are you going to do with the MWD on the nighthawk? The speed with one of the heaviest races will be quite low. You're sacrificing too much tank for that. You going to fit HAMs? Where are you going to get the powergrid to fit a couple shield extenders, HAMS, and the MWD? Without any ballistic controls, your dps will be pointless. How are you going to fit that gang module?

---

Originally by: Norwood Franskly

---

Edited by: Norwood Franskly on 06/01/2009 04:20:58

Originally by: Compendium

---

As I have already stated, I fly a sleipnir as well. This thread is about the nighthawk, remember? What are you going to do with the MWD on the nighthawk? The speed with one of the heaviest races will be quite low. You're sacrificing too much tank for that. You going to fit HAMs? Where are you going to get the powergrid to fit a couple shield extenders, HAMS, and the MWD? Without any ballistic controls, your dps will be pointless. How are you going to fit that gang module?

---

No matter what gang you are in you should always, always fit a mwd for pvp, if you tried to join one of my fleets I wouldn't let you in without mwd. I know alliances that blow up friendly ships that have ****ty fittings, people do take it seriously, no mwd = fail.

Without it fitted what happens if fleet needs to burn across 4 or 5 gates quickly (say theres a tackled carrier a few systems away) but theres a large bubble anchored on a gate. You'll have to slowboat out of the bubble, you take ****ing ages and you'll get picked off while the rest of fleet leaves you behind. Shoot the bubble you say, fleets not going to waste time on that when theres a cap tackled, especially with the aggro timer that will prevent you jumping.

What happens if you get puled into a sling bubble behind the gate you warped to and your 20 or 30 km off the gate (again not that uncommon), you take ages to get to the gate and fleet leaves you behind (or you waste time warping to a planet and then back to gate and you sill get left behind).

What happens if a hostile covert ops gets a warp in on the sniper fleet and dictors get bubbles up, you get trapped in the bubble and you die as hostile close range bs's warp in.

That's just a few reasons to fit one, I'm sure you can think of a few more.

---

Originally by: Gypsio III

---

It doesn't matter where you are, empire or 0.0. Not having a MWD on a Drake is fail enough, not having one on an uninsurable 200 mill ISK T2 Drake is just stupid.

MWD is probably the single most powerful module that a subcapital can fit. Well, apart from a covops cloak, maybe.

---

Originally by: Vrabac

---

Originally by: NoNah

---

Brutix(1150) -> Astarte(1450) = +1 Turret
Harbinger(1500) -> Absolution(1575) = +/-0 Turrets
Drake(850) -> Nighthawk(710) = -1 Launcher
Cyclone(1200) -> Sleipnir(1460) = +2 Turrets

---

This is all so correct, insightful and exciting.

Brutix has 7 turrets just like Astarte. Harbinger has 7 turrets, Abso has 6, but Abso is actually a t2 PROPHECY. Nighthawk isn't a t2 Drake. Cyclone -> Sleip part almost makes sense.

All that aside, nighthawk is still kinda pointless. Adding it grid to remove the need for rcu and swaping low for a mid would make it competitive with other field commands in gank/tank area, since it could fit similar to haml Drake with dc, 3 bcus, mwd, web, scram, invus, lse and hams and actually be better than Drake. But how would that reflect on other fits I don't know so cant really say that doing it would solve all the issues.

---

Originally by: Gypsio III

---

It was rejected, with comments that the NH was a perfectly good PVE ship.

---

Originally by: TimMc

---

Its awesome at mission running, the rest of them suck at it... any you want more? Heavy missile launchers do not take as much PG as the other races guns, but I do agree it should have a nicer CPU (or perhaps the others are too high).

---

Originally by: Framic

---

Originally by: TimMc

---

Its awesome at mission running, the rest of them suck at it... any you want more? Heavy missile launchers do not take as much PG as the other races guns, but I do agree it should have a nicer CPU (or perhaps the others are too high).

---

And who cares about missions?

---

Quote:

---

And it is not much better than drake for running missions.

---

Quote:

---

You obviously dont know what are you taklking about.

---

Originally by: Rastigan

---

And as its been said before, every other races long range guns use over 200 grid per gun (even with AWU5) with those skills the Nighthawk uses less than 100 per launcher. 100+ grid x 6 does show you why the NH has so little grid compared to the others..

---

Originally by: Delichon

---

You can easily fit what ever you want on Astarte - just downgrade to 200mm or 150mm.

---

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

---

While it is good at missiosn, it would certenly not be anye worse if the grid was raise

---

Quote:

---

, so I don't know what all of you PvE guys complain about. A command ship should be banchmakred in PvP, not PvE.

---

Quote:

---

That would be like fitting a Nighthawk with Assault II launchers (which it does get some bonus for).

---

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

---

Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 02/01/2009 04:00:19
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 02/01/2009 03:59:28

Originally by: TimMc

---

Its awesome at mission running, the rest of them suck at it... any you want more? Heavy missile launchers do not take as much PG as the other races guns, but I do agree it should have a nicer CPU (or perhaps the others are too high).

---

I give a **** about mission running for the NH to be frank. It could shine in PvP with better grid, and its in PvP where PvP ships should be benchmarked!

With AWU 4 it can't even fit this:

[Nighthawk, lol wut?]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


In comparison thi has lots of grid to spare:

[Absolution, New Setup 1]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defence

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


Seems balanced?

I do not think so. NH need a serious boost!

---

Originally by: Fuazzole

---

This is a little bit Fail since common low slots for shield tankers are PDS (+pg) and you are yet to fit the Medium armour rep x2, MWD/AB, Cap injector to which the Absolution can't go without.

---

Originally by: Gypsio III

---

Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/01/2009 13:09:01

Originally by: Fuazzole

---

This is a little bit Fail since common low slots for shield tankers are PDS (+pg) and you are yet to fit the Medium armour rep x2, MWD/AB, Cap injector to which the Absolution can't go without.

---

This is a little bit fail, since PDS are not desirable for a shield tanker's low slots. You want a suitcase and damage mods, with maybe a lowslot ECCM in the NH's fifth lowslot.

In general, for a shield tanker, PDS are fitting mods and should be avoided (yeah yeah Onyx).

---

Originally by: Cade Morrigan

---

Originally by: Gypsio III

---

Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/01/2009 13:09:01

Originally by: Fuazzole

---

This is a little bit Fail since common low slots for shield tankers are PDS (+pg) and you are yet to fit the Medium armour rep x2, MWD/AB, Cap injector to which the Absolution can't go without.

---

This is a little bit fail, since PDS are not desirable for a shield tanker's low slots. You want a suitcase and damage mods, with maybe a lowslot ECCM in the NH's fifth lowslot.

In general, for a shield tanker, PDS are fitting mods and should be avoided (yeah yeah Onyx).

---

They're fitting mods with a kick...
+shield
+shield recharge
+cap
+cap recharge

---

Originally by: Napro

---

If you fly Caldari, your ship is gimped

How can you not know this yet? Just deal with it. Stay away from 1v1s in PvP and you'll be fine.

---

Originally by: Napro

---

If you fly Caldari, your ship is gimped

How can you not know this yet? Just deal with it. Stay away from 1v1s in PvP and you'll be fine.

---

Originally by: 1nsan1ty

---

most ships are fine.. maybe be more creative with setups? :P

.. oh yeah, and maybe stop whining over every little thing you run onto in this game. Take a chill pill, go to town man, go to town!

---

Quote:

---

They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise

---

Originally by: Julius Romanus

---

I know the Nighthawk is tight on grid, but you can still fit a gang mod, a LSE, and enough bcu's to match an abso's scorch DPS with heavies. It takes an ACR/PDU(3% pg implant as well). But really whats so bad about it.

---

Originally by: Soporo

---

Originally by: Julius Romanus

---

I know the Nighthawk is tight on grid, but you can still fit a gang mod, a LSE, and enough bcu's to match an abso's scorch DPS with heavies. It takes an ACR/PDU(3% pg implant as well). But really whats so bad about it.

---

You don't pvp in 0.0 do you? You require a speed mod.

---

Originally by: Derrios

---

You will receive no empathy from an Eos pilot:

Let the tears flow forever.

---

Originally by: Archetype 66

---

Just look at the last Alliance tournament and we'll see if you say again NH isn't a PvP ship ^^

---

Originally by: Archetype 66

---

Just look at the last Alliance tournament and we'll see if you say again NH isn't a PvP ship ^^

---

Originally by: Gypsio III

---

You see, the alliance tournament is a lot like PVP...

OK, the force projection capabilities of a HM NH make it a decent largish gang ship. But you've missed the point. The problem is that the whole point of a Command Ship is to fit a gang mod. The Nighthawk simply does not have the PG to fit a gang mod on a sensible PVP fit. It really is that simple.

Sure, you can use a NH without a gang mod - but what's the point? All you then have is a 200 mill ISK Drake with slightly more DPS, similar tank and much greater difficulty fitting tackle. The great advantage of the Drake is its flexibility, ability to fit full tackle and cheapness - a Nighthawk without a GM loses these advantages and offers very little in return.

What would happen if we added 200 PG to the NH? Would it lead to any overpowered fits? No. The ship is still constricted by the five midslots. In PVE, a typical passive failhawk has no need of further PG, so it would get no advantage. In PVP, 200 PG extra would allow you to fit a medium neut instead of a gang mod - but so what? Or you might be able to squeeze a XLSB on - but you're still constricted by midslots and cap, and an XLSB Sleipnir is not overpowered.

---

Originally by: Archetype 66

---

Just look at the last Alliance tournament and we'll see if you say again NH isn't a PvP ship ^^

---

Quote:

---

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to assault missile

---

Originally by: 7shining7one7

---

a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever
b) those who believe there are are nuts

---

Quote:

---

They've fixed other ships before, it's tiume they got around to this one.

---

Originally by: 7shining7one7

---

a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever
b) those who believe there are are nuts

---

Originally by: Naomi Knight

---

Originally by: Derrios

---

You will receive no empathy from an Eos pilot:

Let the tears flow forever.

---

Eos is comparable to the vulture not the nighthawk...
Maybe thats why eos pilots failed to accept that balance change back then.

---

Originally by: De Guantanamo

---

Edited by: De Guantanamo on 20/02/2009 18:29:14
Having never flown this ship in pvp, I can't comment with experience. But just a little dabbling in EFT yielded this fit:

[PVP]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Reactor Control Unit II
Damage Control II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Warp Disruptor II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I

Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I

Obviously no cap injector and lacks heavy DPS, but based on the ships bonuses, one would think that its role is to A)provide moderate gang bonus and B)take down tacklers/smaller ships (explosion velocity bonus). Concurrently, going based on this role, one is not "supposed" to fit HAMs because then the ship would not be able to fill this role (HAMs dont get bonuses from TNP and GMP IIRC).

So, while this ship is obviously not as pwn as say the absolution, would this setup not allow the NH to fulfill the two roles I specified above and be a viable pvp fit?

One potential argument I see against this is that the Drake can probably do these jobs just as well for a fraction of the cost and with insurance. But putting that aside, is this a viable setup for pvp in the NH?

---

Originally by: Bentula

---

Originally by: De Guantanamo

---

Edited by: De Guantanamo on 20/02/2009 18:29:14
Having never flown this ship in pvp, I can't comment with experience. But just a little dabbling in EFT yielded this fit:

[PVP]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Reactor Control Unit II
Damage Control II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Warp Disruptor II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I

Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I

Obviously no cap injector and lacks heavy DPS, but based on the ships bonuses, one would think that its role is to A)provide moderate gang bonus and B)take down tacklers/smaller ships (explosion velocity bonus). Concurrently, going based on this role, one is not "supposed" to fit HAMs because then the ship would not be able to fill this role (HAMs dont get bonuses from TNP and GMP IIRC).

So, while this ship is obviously not as pwn as say the absolution, would this setup not allow the NH to fulfill the two roles I specified above and be a viable pvp fit?

One potential argument I see against this is that the Drake can probably do these jobs just as well for a fraction of the cost and with insurance. But putting that aside, is this a viable setup for pvp in the NH?

---

If it has to be a setup like that why not just use:

[Drake]
2xBallistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II

7xHeavy Missile Launcher II, Guristas Scourge Heavy Missile
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing

3xCore Defence Field Extender I

It has same effective hp, higher volley damage(which i prefer in gang pvp) and not to mention its far cheaper and wont be called primary as much.

P.S.: Dont get me wrong, i wouldnt fly either setup cause they both suck, but atleast the drake version sucks at a cheaper pricetag.

---