Video game informed by non-consensual PvP =/= real life crime, nor yet is there a legitimate parallel between the two.

1/10.

Next!

Why does Concord blow people up now if they don't think it's a crime?

CCP nerfs gankers three times in a single month.
Carebears just keep on crying.
Everything normal, I can see.

Why does Concord blow people up now if they don't think it's a crime?

Shai,love your work,sir.... 07

Exactly. Concord already considers suicide ganking to be a crime. We are treated as criminals for an indefinite time period once our sec. status falls below a certain point. A suicide ganker grinding sec. status back up is the equivalent of paying one's debts to society. Have you never heard of a "chain gang?"

That said, your biggest mistake is comparing the reality portrayed in EVE to that we have seen in real life at any given time. Do you see Apple literally declaring government sanctioned war on Microsoft and raiding their HQ with tanks? There are a lot of aspects of EVE law that do not match up with our real life counterparts. Systems of law can be arranged in an almost infinite variety, so you need to defend your arguments on their merits alone rather than making comparisons to what you feel are real life equivalents.

Well to be fair,we are in a universe where CCP decides the rules. I'm guessing it not very easy to listen to thousands of voices all at once. Can't please everyone and all that. Hopefully you will find the answer you are looking for.

to the OP: are you sure this is not another whine for nerf suicide gankers? also your corp name seems to get along pretty well with this

I am absolutely biased, and I'll be the first to admit it.

My point is to try and see things from the other side without people just spouting off the usual crap.

CCP nerfs gankers three times in a single month.
Carebears just keep on crying.
Everything normal, I can see.

and no, i have never been suicide ganked. its just a stupid mechanic that for a few mil you can kill a hulk loot it and possibly make isk off the deal.

all they need now is a buff to t2 industrial and exhumer EHP so that it takes more the 2 destroyers to suicide them.

I too, use real life examples in video games.
this isn't real life get over it, balance >>>>>>> realism.

t2 industrial and mining ships... as well as probably black ops and numerous other t2 ships
should get an EHP boost.

maximum damage and minimum cost does make sense,
except its the equivalent of a blade of grass stopping a tank 100 times a day...

Liang has an interesting blog post regarding this sort of thing, and it has a link to an article that has a differing viewpoint.

http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/social-contracts/

and no, i have never been suicide ganked. its just a stupid mechanic that for a few mil you can kill a hulk loot it and possibly make isk off the deal.

tell this to a taliban when shoot a very expensive (training cost and so on) american soldier with a cheap ak-47; maybe they should need to buy expensive gear before shoot americans? imo it's logical to try to inflict maximum damage with minimum cost.

I too, use real life examples in video games.
this isn't real life get over it, balance >>>>>>> realism.

This will force the Aggressor to stay docked up (in jail) or flee justice (to low-sec of null) for that time period; and/or

All those discussions about "risk" are useless, when you're caught everytime.

Why not change to a real risky system, depending on the sec-status of the systems?

The chance to get caught by CONCORD in a 1.0 System would be near 90%, in a 0.9 system near 75%, 0.8 would be 50, then 40, 30 and 20 % for 0.7, 0.6 and 0.5.

This means, the chance CONCORD arrives at the crimescene in time gets lower, the lower the sec-status of the system is. So, the ganker has a chance to survive.

But, in case he gets caught, he has to pay the loss of the victim.

In addition to

"Don't fly, what you can't afford to loose" it then would be

"Don't gank, what you can't afford to pay"

That would be a real risk.

CCP nerfs gankers three times in a single month.
Carebears just keep on crying.
Everything normal, I can see.

Do you realize you can create a character only for suicide ganking with wallet 0 and use ships ejected/leaved in space by your friends at safespots? So your solution it's not viable at all even with 100% chance to repay the victim. This ideea get into my head right after i read your post without any effort so i bet they are more clever ways to get around your solution.
Also i don't get it why some ppl need to have a special status in this game; if i lose a ship it's lost no matter the circumstances so why another set of rules when these rules seems fine for everyone?

Of cause i know, that the possibility exists to create such chars. Do you know what happens with a char that has MINUS in his wallet today?
No trade, no contracts - the only additional thing would be, that donations to this character, whether in ISK and also ships/assets would first be used to get his wallet in balance.

And the thing with your so called "special status" - there is none. If the criminal gets caught, he has to pay. Simple as that.

like i said before the character can be created with sole purpose to suicide gank and the negative wallet it's ok for this. also "special status" it's crystal clear: if i pop a ship why should i pay for this? if i be a suicidal taliban why should i pay for the destruction of New York towers
wardec me, suicide gank me and so on you have alotsa posibilities to get revenge but you only want an automatic response from CCP server wich it's against the sandbox.
anyway pls cry some more because in this way you'l get a true hisec space and yeah imo this will kill eve as we know.

The only ones whining here and still crying for risk free ganking are all those gankbears. There is no risk, wenn you defintely loose your ship. It's a calculated loss.

My proposal gives you a chance to get off with your ship and your loot - but there is a chance, that when you get caught it will become expensive. This is a real risk.

Therefor the punishement and the consequences MUST and hopefully WILL be increased very soon. In this world there is no place for gankers, simply forbid shooting at other players in hisec.

Cheers

High level summary: I think the current CONCORD system is dumb. Please find an alternative system below. Discuss.

Exactly. Concord already considers suicide ganking to be a crime. We are treated as criminals for an indefinite time period once our sec. status falls below a certain point. A suicide ganker grinding sec. status back up is the equivalent of paying one's debts to society. Have you never heard of a "chain gang?"

That said, your biggest mistake is comparing the reality portrayed in EVE to that we have seen in real life at any given time. Do you see Apple literally declaring government sanctioned war on Microsoft and raiding their HQ with tanks? There are a lot of aspects of EVE law that do not match up with our real life counterparts. Systems of law can be arranged in an almost infinite variety, so you need to defend your arguments on their merits alone rather than making comparisons to what you feel are real life equivalents.

Personally, I'd rather the mechanics stay the way they are. I sui-gank you, you take my ship. Done and done. Jail is stupid and just further discourages an important part of the game; destruction.

What people don't seem to get a grasp on is every time a Hulk gets ganked, a miner is making money by the need for minerals going up to build new Hulks and the Hulk producer is making money to sell a replacement Hulk to the victim. It's all supply and demand. Destruction and creation. It just so happens that some of us enjoy the destruction part more, and that is truly what makes Eve great.

[...] In this world there is no place for gankers, simply forbid shooting at other players in hisec.

Cheers

tell this to a taliban when shoot a very expensive (training cost and so on) american soldier with a cheap ak-47; maybe they should need to buy expensive gear before shoot americans? imo it's logical to try to inflict maximum damage with minimum cost.

I wish the police arrived in 20 seconds IRL.

No, it's not logical because EVE is a game. You know, pixels.

No, it's not logical because EVE is a game. You know, pixels.

Yeah, but these pixels are controlled by real life persons, ones that are mobbed in their job and compensate this by blowing up weaker gamers ships, and other ones that mob in their job and just do that also in game. So it's allmost human behaviour.

Therefor the punishement and the consequences MUST and hopefully WILL be increased very soon. In this world there is no place for gankers, simply forbid shooting at other players in hisec.

Cheers

ofc it's human behavior because it's a multiplayer game. if it's not human behavior involved i play a single player game, wich unfortunately in the last years are very boring except 1 max 2 per year. so yeah when you signed for this game you also signed for a dark, unforgiven universe but dark component it's from other players not from some stupid npc's. if you don't like this part pls leave us we don't need you.

Oh FFS, HTFU man. You can't forbid shooting in highsec anymore than you can forbid and 100% prevent such things in even the safest cities in the world. CCP has already made many sweeping changes to assuage the carebears who do nothing but make risk-free ISK all day, every day. It's nearly destroyed the very way of life that those such as myself enjoy and has also caused some of the terrible inflation we are seeing. Why should the way you like to play your game be more important than the way I like to play mine? This is the sandbox. Live with it or feel free to go back to WoW or whatever children's game you choose.

And as to the comments that gankings only motivation is to create grief, I got news for ya. We make damn good money off of what your ship drops and the salvage. The T2 salvage is quite profitable, especially seeing as I only lose at most a 2mil ISK gank Catalyst. This is the exact reason I don't bother ever ganking Covetors or Retrievers. There is hardly any profit in it except for the occasional strip miners. I gank for profit. The occasional tears are pretty nice, too.

I wish people would stop talking about higsec being "risk free isk". You are a ganker YOU ARE THE RISK.

To summarize: I think CCP should get rid of CONCORD entirely and let Darwin take that over in the sandbox. This will allow both sides to have the ability to at least take matters into their own hands, and get rid of a system that is half-baked at best.

Now you just sound bitter :-(
CCP is trying to balance CONCORD to the way they feel it makes most sense for THE GAME. You know, having as much fun as possible and stuff.
Not for a comparison to real life.

If you want to make Eve more like real life

Oh FFS, HTFU man. You can't forbid shooting in highsec anymore than you can forbid and 100% prevent such things in even the safest cities in the world. CCP has already made many sweeping changes to assuage the carebears who do nothing but make risk-free ISK all day, every day. It's nearly destroyed the very way of life that those such as myself enjoy and has also caused some of the terrible inflation we are seeing. Why should the way you like to play your game be more important than the way I like to play mine? This is the sandbox. Live with it or feel free to go back to WoW or whatever children's game you choose.

And as to the comments that gankings only motivation is to create grief, I got news for ya. We make damn good money off of what your ship drops and the salvage. The T2 salvage is quite profitable, especially seeing as I only lose at most a 2mil ISK gank Catalyst. This is the exact reason I don't bother ever ganking Covetors or Retrievers. There is hardly any profit in it except for the occasional strip miners. I gank for profit. The occasional tears are pretty nice, too.

Now you just sound bitter :-(
CCP is trying to balance CONCORD to the way they feel it makes most sense for THE GAME. You know, having as much fun as possible and stuff.
Not for a comparison to real life.

no

Its not an exploit, if the game lets you do it...

I wouldnt give too much on that tears. There are 100s or even 1000s of players out in low and null sec who WANT to play PVP. Those gankers here simply try to find a way to kill there, where they can calculate an easy kill, because their victim is not able to defend, not skilled enough or unaware about those exploit users.

Concord is still much too friendly and much too slow - a reaction of Concord within 0.01 secs is still too long. CCP is still too friendly. Punishment must be MUCH harder. So hard that a kill in highsec on purpose is only worth it, when a personal issue still lets it be worth the effort. Fun for some exploiters is not enough. Possible profit out of a highsec kill is not enough. This must be stopped.

It is that simple.

Cheers

are you troll?
but if you are not a honest troll please show us where the bad ganker touch you (linky to lossmail will help alot).