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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tusko Hopkins
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Posted - 2009.01.08 23:28:00 -
[31]
Supported.
Do you happen to have to have figures from pre-QR as well? We could use some more data on this... It is obvious that a cruiser should be able to tackle a cruiser before it warps off however if I recall correctly, small ships, especially interceptors and frigs never had a chance to scram their own shipclass without a sensor booster.
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.01.09 02:32:00 -
[32]
while i dont trust the #s presented... I thought the boost to agility in QR was crazy. Didn't make sense. You can no doubt find my post in gamedev on it.
They should have decreased agility of battleships and such. Not increase.
Such that they have harder time to get away.
Raven 50km from 0km warp in of belt. The interceptor pre-qr would tackle in say 10 seconds. Post QR the interceptor would take say 12-15 seconds. Thusly agility has to be adjusted to increase warp away 2-5 seconds. or whatever #s are right.
Post #10. I made this very point months ago. |
Del Boy
Vale Tudo.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.09 03:57:00 -
[33]
Signed. |
Sedious Bloke
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Posted - 2009.01.09 05:40:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Sedious Bloke on 09/01/2009 05:41:01
Signed <3
Save Eve
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ZaknafeinX
Vale Tudo.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.09 06:44:00 -
[35]
Supported |
SecHaul
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Posted - 2009.01.09 07:10:00 -
[36]
Supported. Doesn't need massive changes, but I would like to see the results return to near pre-QR values.
Not sure how to do this, changing lock times causes other issues, changing agility breaks blasterboats, *shrug*
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Jebba IV
Vale Tudo.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.09 09:26:00 -
[37]
Thanks for this Goumindong, =-]
/signed
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olzi
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.01.09 14:42:00 -
[38]
Supported.
Today we had 2 dedicated tacklers on a gate, one sensor boosted crow with 1800 scan resolution and one sensor boosted merlin with 1200 scan resolution. Both with clear tackling overview's of course.
A rupture fitted with one 800mm armor plate and no propulsion upgrades jumped in, and made it through our tacklers. The combination of inertia changes in the QR patch and the inherent in-game lag and the activation delay of modules after a succesful lock enables this.
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Yarik Mendel
Privateers
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Posted - 2009.01.09 15:26:00 -
[39]
yea or give us a special war-dec bubble for empire |
Jezala
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.09 16:55:00 -
[40]
It's sad to see that we've come to this point. Hopefully this will be the first step towards putting us back onto the proper path of what made pvp in Eve so damn glorious.
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Dawts
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.01.09 22:35:00 -
[41]
supported.
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thesonarnet
Gallente
0ccam's Razor
UNLeashed Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.10 08:13:00 -
[42]
against it.
A couple of activated Sensor Boosters + a properly set Overview + a scram pre activated and blinking = instant lock
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Captain Thunk
Vale Tudo.
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Posted - 2009.01.10 09:06:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Captain Thunk on 10/01/2009 09:07:48
 Originally by: olzi
Supported.
Today we had 2 dedicated tacklers on a gate, one sensor boosted crow with 1800 scan resolution and one sensor boosted merlin with 1200 scan resolution. Both with clear tackling overview's of course.
A rupture fitted with one 800mm armor plate and no propulsion upgrades jumped in, and made it through our tacklers. The combination of inertia changes in the QR patch and the inherent in-game lag and the activation delay of modules after a succesful lock enables this.
Originally by: thesonarnet
against it.
A couple of activated Sensor Boosters + a properly set Overview + a scram pre activated and blinking = instant lock
With respect thesonarnet, I don't see why people should gimp their mid slots for a rack of sensor boosters (even harder for Amarr) just to tackle somebody - though as Olzi points out, in some situations it doesn't matter what your scan resolution is, they are in warp and safe before your client has registered they have decloaked because of inherent background lag. We're not asking for tackling to be made easier, we just want it the same as it was before QR. At no time did CCP state "we're going to make tackling much harder and make it much easier to travel around while you're at war or in low sec", so it would seem the QR changes had these unintended consequences which is what we want looked at.
Captain Thunk |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.10 09:40:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tusko Hopkins
Supported.
Do you happen to have to have figures from pre-QR as well? We could use some more data on this... It is obvious that a cruiser should be able to tackle a cruiser before it warps off however if I recall correctly, small ships, especially interceptors and frigs never had a chance to scram their own shipclass without a sensor booster.
Lock times didn't change. And you can find align times by looking at an old version of EFT.
For the most part, ships cruiser sized and above had significant decreases in their align times.
E.G. align time for a raven was something like 15.3 seconds without an MWD pre QR. Now its 10.5 seconds(15.8 with an MWD activated!)
fake edit: I went and got an old copy of EFT(EFT 2.8.1 taken from Gripens Eve files index) and these are the align times. This is using top tier Amarr(slowest align usually) and lowest tier Caldari(fastest align usually) with the exception of interceptors where Caldari and Minmatar are used. Everything else is going to be in between the two numbers. I can do entire sets of ships, it just takes more time and isn't much worth it.
None of the ships are set with plates, agility modifiers, or mass modifiers(Pre-QR only). The numbers below are "align times" which means that its how long it takes the ship to get into warp from a dead stop(75% of its velocity).
:Battleships:
QR Pre-QR MWD-QR MWD-Pre
Scorpion: 10 14.9 14.8 21.4
Abaddon: 11.9 17.5 17.7 25
:Battlecruisers:
QR Pre-QR MWD-QR MWD-Pre
Ferox: 7.4 10.6 10.1 14.4
Harbinger: 8 11.4 10.9 15.7
:Cruisers:
QR Pre-QR MWD-QR MWD-Pre
Caracal: 3.7 5.3 5.1 7.2
Maller: 4.7 6.7 6.8 9.4
:Frigates:
QR Pre-QR MWD-QR MWD-Pre
Condor: 2.1 3 3 4.3
Punisher: 3 4.2 4.4 5.7
:Interceptor:
QR Pre-QR MWD-QR MWD-Pre
Crow: 2.1 3 3.1 4.5
Claw: 2.3 3.4 3.4 4.8
As you can see, pretty much everything has received a massive increase in agility, so far that some ships are more agile with an MWD on after the changes than they were without an MWD on before.
Pretty much everything is getting into warp 30% or more faster than they were before.
As was said earlier, the actual agility of the ships doesn't need to change, just how long it takes them to get into warp.
Looking at those numbers it seems pretty clear to me that the solution is to increase the speed necessary to get into warp to compensate for the agility changes.
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TEK9
Vale Tudo.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.10 11:01:00 -
[45]
Edited by: TEK9 on 10/01/2009 11:02:48
Supported - plz CCP deal with this, it is ruining the game.
Oh and thanks to Goumindong for doing the math.
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.01.10 13:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: thesonarnet
against it.
A couple of activated Sensor Boosters + a properly set Overview + a scram pre activated and blinking = instant lock
One can have an insta-lock but it does not help when overview update interval is 1 second and module lag 2-3 seconds.
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Grunanca
Mean Corp
Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2009.01.10 14:24:00 -
[47]
What I find disturbing is that I need 2 lock time scripted sensor boosters in order to catch a cruiser with my broadsword. Thats just too much! Before 1 was enough, meaning you still sacrificed almost 150 dps tank, now its just plain silly. |
Bellum Eternus
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.10 23:47:00 -
[48]
Supported. Hmm, me supporting a Goumindong thread. Is that hell freezing over that I hear? o.0 |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.11 01:01:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Supported. Hmm, me supporting a Goumindong thread. Is that hell freezing over that I hear? o.0
Goumindong was one of the crazier voices calling for big speed nerf patch. But CCP managed to out-do even him in the crazy idea department. Now he is the voice of reason in comparison
it's funny and sad at same time |
Petty Thief
Three Pony
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Posted - 2009.01.11 12:33:00 -
[50]
NOO do not slow align times, jesus what the hell? Its called fit a sb
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.11 13:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Petty Thief
NOO do not slow align times, jesus what the hell? Its called fit a sb
Alright, lets give all ships extra mid slot and 10 CPU.. are you sure that's better? |
BlackMail
FW Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.11 22:13:00 -
[52]
I support this Measure Fix it please for Faction War it would be a big help
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Blackmail
Eve Defence Force
All Around Good Guy
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DragonOfTheArmory
FW Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.11 22:23:00 -
[53]
I support this as well. |
evilphoenix
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.11 22:50:00 -
[54]
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Seth Ruin
Ominous Corp
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.01.11 23:22:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Goumindong
Lock times didn't change. And you can find align times by looking at an old version of EFT.
I'm not exactly sure how accurate EFT's align time calculator is, or even how it's calculated. I do, however, agree that the align time should always be slightly longer than lock time of the same ship, due (as stated earlier) to "lag time" and reaction time factoring in, making it even more difficult to catch a target trying to escape. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.11 23:24:00 -
[56]
/supported |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.13 12:05:00 -
[57]
It seems that some ships did not receive an agility boost to go along with QR
Originally by: abbagabba
I believe the following is a complete list:
Rookie ships, industrials, transports, freighters, mining barges, exhumers, capitals
However, if we are increasing the speed(and therefore time) it takes to get into warp, we can easily make these ships more agile to compensate without any negative effects(since their combat maneuverability is more or less inconsequential)
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.01.13 12:23:00 -
[58]
Surreal but true.
Supporting a Goumindong topic 
ISSUE - Bring back live events |
abbagabba
Monster Raving Loonies
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Posted - 2009.01.13 13:35:00 -
[59]
Supported, this massive change in combat mechanics has recieved no justification or comment from CCP. |
Rex Mundus
LOG Research
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:10:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Rex Mundus on 14/01/2009 11:11:06
Supported. This needs to be addressed, align times are crazy.
Edit: to tick the support box |
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