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Deloup Drakar
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Posted - 2004.07.26 14:36:00 -
[301]
Edited by: Deloup Drakar on 26/07/2004 14:39:29
 Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Many pages indeed, but I don't think I did see a sugestion for a...
DRONE REPAIR MODULE.
Repairing drones in-flight would be handy, and a fair penalty for mounting the module could be a decrease in drone bay capacity.
Agreed, perhaps available with the use of Repair Drones when they go live...target what you wish to repair (be it your drone or another ship or somehow yourself)
Originally by: Ecane Celest
A really dumb question, but what about Mining Drones.
I looked over this long thread but never saw things about mining drones.
Sry if this is somewhere in here 
It isn't what the problem is. TomB is looking to balance the drone issue, which there is no drone issue with mining drones in the way of them wtfpwning a veldspar roid. You'll get new mining drones soon(tm) so keep your pants on.
**edit** caught a typo I know some troll would have reamed me for.
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Deloup Drakar
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Posted - 2004.07.26 14:36:00 -
[302]
Edited by: Deloup Drakar on 26/07/2004 14:39:29
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Many pages indeed, but I don't think I did see a sugestion for a...
DRONE REPAIR MODULE.
Repairing drones in-flight would be handy, and a fair penalty for mounting the module could be a decrease in drone bay capacity.
Agreed, perhaps available with the use of Repair Drones when they go live...target what you wish to repair (be it your drone or another ship or somehow yourself)
Originally by: Ecane Celest
A really dumb question, but what about Mining Drones.
I looked over this long thread but never saw things about mining drones.
Sry if this is somewhere in here
It isn't what the problem is. TomB is looking to balance the drone issue, which there is no drone issue with mining drones in the way of them wtfpwning a veldspar roid. You'll get new mining drones soon(tm) so keep your pants on.
**edit** caught a typo I know some troll would have reamed me for.
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.07.26 14:43:00 -
[303]
Sorry, ***** time
Arbitrator: 40.0
Thorax: 40.0
This is with the current drone changes, the size of their drone bays. According to the other thread about the crusiers the Thorax has 1000 while the arbitrator has 1500 and now they have the same amount of drone space?. So what is it? are you nerfing the Thorax less or nerfing the Arbitrator more?
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.07.26 14:43:00 -
[304]
Sorry, ***** time
Arbitrator: 40.0
Thorax: 40.0
This is with the current drone changes, the size of their drone bays. According to the other thread about the crusiers the Thorax has 1000 while the arbitrator has 1500 and now they have the same amount of drone space?. So what is it? are you nerfing the Thorax less or nerfing the Arbitrator more?
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Xel Naga
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:12:00 -
[305]
A lot of your suggestions can be seen here Im looking forward to the drone upgrades, although i dont think masses of waves is the right answer, I'll just have to trust the Dev's have tested this themselves and it works well.
I do hope we will be getting a good selection of Drone-related Modules, which most have been mentioned in the above linked post.
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Xel Naga
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:12:00 -
[306]
A lot of your suggestions can be seen here Im looking forward to the drone upgrades, although i dont think masses of waves is the right answer, I'll just have to trust the Dev's have tested this themselves and it works well.
I do hope we will be getting a good selection of Drone-related Modules, which most have been mentioned in the above linked post.
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LeviUK
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:14:00 -
[307]
Given a scenario where I warp into a spawn consisting of 2 Guardian Elders and 4 Patrollers, with these changes, I have to ensure that I have plenty of medium drones and send wave after wave at the scrambler patrollers orbitting me at 10km whilst also trying to prevent my ship being destroyed the Elders/hit the elders back.. i could take more small guns to take the frigs and then hardly make a dent on these BS which boost like there's no tomorrow, or i take predominantly large gun and get wtfpwned by the elite frigs.
Basically what you seem to be saying is that late at night when there's not as many people around, my regular solo spawn killing activities are over. You really are trying to nerf solo-play aren't you? Personally I like a good mix of both team-play and doing my own thing and it seems your intention to eradicate this ability completely. Back to agent missions then? Oh joy.. how long till those are strangled too?
I'm pretty unhapy with the changes and once again you are changing the whole game for many with what should have been a pretty minor fix (infinite range etc).
GG Devs 
hirr today, gone tomorrow |
LeviUK
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:14:00 -
[308]
Given a scenario where I warp into a spawn consisting of 2 Guardian Elders and 4 Patrollers, with these changes, I have to ensure that I have plenty of medium drones and send wave after wave at the scrambler patrollers orbitting me at 10km whilst also trying to prevent my ship being destroyed the Elders/hit the elders back.. i could take more small guns to take the frigs and then hardly make a dent on these BS which boost like there's no tomorrow, or i take predominantly large gun and get wtfpwned by the elite frigs.
Basically what you seem to be saying is that late at night when there's not as many people around, my regular solo spawn killing activities are over. You really are trying to nerf solo-play aren't you? Personally I like a good mix of both team-play and doing my own thing and it seems your intention to eradicate this ability completely. Back to agent missions then? Oh joy.. how long till those are strangled too?
I'm pretty unhapy with the changes and once again you are changing the whole game for many with what should have been a pretty minor fix (infinite range etc).
GG Devs
hirr today, gone tomorrow |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:17:00 -
[309]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritan on 26/07/2004 15:34:09
Originally by: Arud
Sorry, ***** time
Arbitrator: 40.0
Thorax: 40.0
This is with the current drone changes, the size of their drone bays. According to the other thread about the crusiers the Thorax has 1000 while the arbitrator has 1500 and now they have the same amount of drone space?. So what is it? are you nerfing the Thorax less or nerfing the Arbitrator more?
Both of them are getting nerfed into damnation.
*wonders if anyone wants to sit around all day and defend him while mining in 0.1 because these nerfs screwed it all up*
Omber also grows in some 0.7 systems right?
Anyway, all this has a few good points. It will leave low sec miners awfully undefended against pirates 
---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:17:00 -
[310]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritan on 26/07/2004 15:34:09
Originally by: Arud
Sorry, ***** time
Arbitrator: 40.0
Thorax: 40.0
This is with the current drone changes, the size of their drone bays. According to the other thread about the crusiers the Thorax has 1000 while the arbitrator has 1500 and now they have the same amount of drone space?. So what is it? are you nerfing the Thorax less or nerfing the Arbitrator more?
Both of them are getting nerfed into damnation.
*wonders if anyone wants to sit around all day and defend him while mining in 0.1 because these nerfs screwed it all up*
Omber also grows in some 0.7 systems right?
Anyway, all this has a few good points. It will leave low sec miners awfully undefended against pirates
---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Baun
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:40:00 -
[311]
Quote:
2. Hopefully it'll follow turret tracking rules, so that it would in fact do as you said.
3. Two ways I think this might go, both require changes to the UI.
A) (hopefully the way picked) as you said, assigning squadrens of drones and be able to pick them.
B) divide the dronebay into three (or more incase you want to seperate the drone dmg type....how about a pulldown toggle for number of sens) sections, so that you can segregate your drones.
4. Lets all hope that little piece of code don't leak to TQ w/o limiting what drones can fit in what classes of ships. Only exception I'd like to see if the Carrier class ship, no matter what ship class it's built off of, let it use any drone class as it specializes in them (if I'm understanding it's role properly)
2. They need to up drone tracking then. They should be virtually assured hits on the proper ship types.
3. I hope it goes the way I suggested. Otherwise it will be impossible to scramble damage types etc unless it goes the way I suggested. I would accept the alternative you posted as a bear bones minimum requirement before implimentation of the drone changes.
4. This might be fine if carriers are ONLY cruiser and up. If not I would suggest restricting frig carriers to two levels of drones (scout medium). This would mean a frig carrier would be an excellent support ship for a fleet but wouldn't be able to pose a serious threat to battleships.
Additional Issue:
1. Drones should NOT maintain constant orbit around their target. This allows smartbombs to be 100% effective with VERY little sacrifice. RATHER they should make attack runs where they swoop by and fire against their target sequentially such that only a handful are within SB radius at a time. This assures people will have to actively concentrate on drones rather than passively swatting them with an SB.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Baun
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:40:00 -
[312]
Quote:
2. Hopefully it'll follow turret tracking rules, so that it would in fact do as you said.
3. Two ways I think this might go, both require changes to the UI.
A) (hopefully the way picked) as you said, assigning squadrens of drones and be able to pick them.
B) divide the dronebay into three (or more incase you want to seperate the drone dmg type....how about a pulldown toggle for number of sens) sections, so that you can segregate your drones.
4. Lets all hope that little piece of code don't leak to TQ w/o limiting what drones can fit in what classes of ships. Only exception I'd like to see if the Carrier class ship, no matter what ship class it's built off of, let it use any drone class as it specializes in them (if I'm understanding it's role properly)
2. They need to up drone tracking then. They should be virtually assured hits on the proper ship types.
3. I hope it goes the way I suggested. Otherwise it will be impossible to scramble damage types etc unless it goes the way I suggested. I would accept the alternative you posted as a bear bones minimum requirement before implimentation of the drone changes.
4. This might be fine if carriers are ONLY cruiser and up. If not I would suggest restricting frig carriers to two levels of drones (scout medium). This would mean a frig carrier would be an excellent support ship for a fleet but wouldn't be able to pose a serious threat to battleships.
Additional Issue:
1. Drones should NOT maintain constant orbit around their target. This allows smartbombs to be 100% effective with VERY little sacrifice. RATHER they should make attack runs where they swoop by and fire against their target sequentially such that only a handful are within SB radius at a time. This assures people will have to actively concentrate on drones rather than passively swatting them with an SB.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Ouikka
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:47:00 -
[313]
like someone already said, adding a new data for ships "maximum drones" is NEEDED to prevent the non drone ships to be able to launch full 10 drones fleets. (there won't be any drone wave, only just 1 wave, but as strong as a drone ship ones...)
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Ouikka
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:47:00 -
[314]
like someone already said, adding a new data for ships "maximum drones" is NEEDED to prevent the non drone ships to be able to launch full 10 drones fleets. (there won't be any drone wave, only just 1 wave, but as strong as a drone ship ones...)
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Liquid Metal
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:52:00 -
[315]
if we get longer range webifiers introduced, i dont think there will be too much of a probelm, like a 20km webifier that can only be used on frigates/ceptors, would make them slow enough to turn and withdraw since the drones can have their fun then o_O Just make them hard to get hold of, just an idea :/
"A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
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Liquid Metal
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:52:00 -
[316]
if we get longer range webifiers introduced, i dont think there will be too much of a probelm, like a 20km webifier that can only be used on frigates/ceptors, would make them slow enough to turn and withdraw since the drones can have their fun then o_O Just make them hard to get hold of, just an idea :/
"A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
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GrendelPrime
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:54:00 -
[317]
k,... Gonna go out on a limb here. From what I can tell after reading all te pages on Cruiser changes, and now all 8 pages (at time of writing) on the drone changes. I have come to the conclusion that these changes are being made to inch us closer to the realization of a truly mixed fleet.
However this thought rests on the piecing together of some sketchy info, ie... (bear with me please this could be just a lot of rubbish??) .
Drone bay on Thorax gets nerfed, and Drone bay on Vexor gets increased, in addition to +1 drone control. Then we find that drones are getting "worked over" aka... smaller in volume, ability to be launched in waves, 10x Light drones causing no real damage to frigs/cepters.
Perhaps this is all in a move that preceeds the intoduction of Destroyers, and Point-Defense Cruisers. That way you will have to have "Destroyers to handle all the Frigs/Cepters that your drones will no longer be as effective on. Also the need for a Point-Defense Cruiser will arise to handle the Anti-Drone duty as well as Anti-Missile duty. This IMO would be a true definetion of a "mixed fleet".
However having said all of that... I would like to think that this is what CCP has in mind with all these changes, But as I have said already this is speculation on my part. We don't really have any defenitive Info on Destroyers, and we have no info that I know of on Point-defense Cruisers, aside from the name of the "class"
If indeed this is to be the case, then I personnaly feel that more info is needed in this regard, mostly to stave off the "OMG... your Nerfing Drones, etc..." and to allow us info to future "enhancements" to the EVE universe. If I'm totally off base about my theory (which is ENTIRLY possible) then I'm rather confused about the purposed drone changes... as they do not seem to match up with the Back story already provided by CCP.
Example... if Drones are so much like robots and "Dumb" as TomB says... how do you explain the "Vampire" drone and its story... one drone takes out 3 frigs all by itself!!. granted the Vampire is not in the game... but thats not the point, the story is, and the story is but one part of the EVE universe, and its been there since the launch of the game IIRC.
So to end this long winded conjucture based post... I'll reserve final judgement on the changes till I've had time to test on Chaos, and determine for myself how these changes will affect my own play style.
BTW, ... thanks for finally giving some lovin to Cruisers TomB
"Though you may die, do not give up your honor"
-- Miyamoto Musashi
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GrendelPrime
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Posted - 2004.07.26 15:54:00 -
[318]
k,... Gonna go out on a limb here. From what I can tell after reading all te pages on Cruiser changes, and now all 8 pages (at time of writing) on the drone changes. I have come to the conclusion that these changes are being made to inch us closer to the realization of a truly mixed fleet.
However this thought rests on the piecing together of some sketchy info, ie... (bear with me please this could be just a lot of rubbish??) .
Drone bay on Thorax gets nerfed, and Drone bay on Vexor gets increased, in addition to +1 drone control. Then we find that drones are getting "worked over" aka... smaller in volume, ability to be launched in waves, 10x Light drones causing no real damage to frigs/cepters.
Perhaps this is all in a move that preceeds the intoduction of Destroyers, and Point-Defense Cruisers. That way you will have to have "Destroyers to handle all the Frigs/Cepters that your drones will no longer be as effective on. Also the need for a Point-Defense Cruiser will arise to handle the Anti-Drone duty as well as Anti-Missile duty. This IMO would be a true definetion of a "mixed fleet".
However having said all of that... I would like to think that this is what CCP has in mind with all these changes, But as I have said already this is speculation on my part. We don't really have any defenitive Info on Destroyers, and we have no info that I know of on Point-defense Cruisers, aside from the name of the "class"
If indeed this is to be the case, then I personnaly feel that more info is needed in this regard, mostly to stave off the "OMG... your Nerfing Drones, etc..." and to allow us info to future "enhancements" to the EVE universe. If I'm totally off base about my theory (which is ENTIRLY possible) then I'm rather confused about the purposed drone changes... as they do not seem to match up with the Back story already provided by CCP.
Example... if Drones are so much like robots and "Dumb" as TomB says... how do you explain the "Vampire" drone and its story... one drone takes out 3 frigs all by itself!!. granted the Vampire is not in the game... but thats not the point, the story is, and the story is but one part of the EVE universe, and its been there since the launch of the game IIRC.
So to end this long winded conjucture based post... I'll reserve final judgement on the changes till I've had time to test on Chaos, and determine for myself how these changes will affect my own play style.
BTW, ... thanks for finally giving some lovin to Cruisers TomB
"Though you may die, do not give up your honor"
-- Miyamoto Musashi
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:11:00 -
[319]
From testing on Chaos
Drones need a higher Trackign speed, ESPECIALLY light drones, they are insanely ineffective against frigate.s
................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:11:00 -
[320]
From testing on Chaos
Drones need a higher Trackign speed, ESPECIALLY light drones, they are insanely ineffective against frigate.s
................. |
Boom Stick
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:24:00 -
[321]
Edited by: Boom Stick on 26/07/2004 16:25:30
hmm. havent read all, but wheres our repair drones ?
i dont use drones that mutch, but would be nice to have those in the game soon so that i dont have to dock and fit my ship with armor repairer all the time..
btw... repair drones are more realistic if u want to look at it that way..
and dont make us have to have minerals in our cargo hold for them to be able to repair our ships.. =P
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Boom Stick
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:24:00 -
[322]
Edited by: Boom Stick on 26/07/2004 16:25:30
hmm. havent read all, but wheres our repair drones ?
i dont use drones that mutch, but would be nice to have those in the game soon so that i dont have to dock and fit my ship with armor repairer all the time..
btw... repair drones are more realistic if u want to look at it that way..
and dont make us have to have minerals in our cargo hold for them to be able to repair our ships.. =P
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perl
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:35:00 -
[323]
yes light drones is to weak for my taste and there need to be att better drone launching system. noone wanna carry 200+ drones and then search throw the dronebay to find the right sized/type ones. maybe some L,M and S buttons or key binds to deploy right drones fast.
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perl
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:35:00 -
[324]
yes light drones is to weak for my taste and there need to be att better drone launching system. noone wanna carry 200+ drones and then search throw the dronebay to find the right sized/type ones. maybe some L,M and S buttons or key binds to deploy right drones fast.
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Xel Naga
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:36:00 -
[325]
TomB, will you be adding any drone-related modules to the game?
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Xel Naga
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:36:00 -
[326]
TomB, will you be adding any drone-related modules to the game?
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Baun
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:51:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Ouikka
like someone already said, adding a new data for ships "maximum drones" is NEEDED to prevent the non drone ships to be able to launch full 10 drones fleets. (there won't be any drone wave, only just 1 wave, but as strong as a drone ship ones...)
Agreed. You NEED to differentiate drone ships from non-drone ships. I think a better route to take is to completely remove the drone bay from most non-gallente ships AND limit controllable drones on all non drone specializing ships.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Baun
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:51:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Ouikka
like someone already said, adding a new data for ships "maximum drones" is NEEDED to prevent the non drone ships to be able to launch full 10 drones fleets. (there won't be any drone wave, only just 1 wave, but as strong as a drone ship ones...)
Agreed. You NEED to differentiate drone ships from non-drone ships. I think a better route to take is to completely remove the drone bay from most non-gallente ships AND limit controllable drones on all non drone specializing ships.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:57:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: Ouikka
like someone already said, adding a new data for ships "maximum drones" is NEEDED to prevent the non drone ships to be able to launch full 10 drones fleets. (there won't be any drone wave, only just 1 wave, but as strong as a drone ship ones...)
Agreed. You NEED to differentiate drone ships from non-drone ships. I think a better route to take is to completely remove the drone bay from most non-gallente ships AND limit controllable drones on all non drone specializing ships.
If you pull dronebays off all non gallente ships, you will need to make blasters/rails do far less dmg on them. Hybrids are already the most dmg weapons in game, if they get a 10 drone advantage over all other ships, it will be even more unbalanced.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:57:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: Ouikka
like someone already said, adding a new data for ships "maximum drones" is NEEDED to prevent the non drone ships to be able to launch full 10 drones fleets. (there won't be any drone wave, only just 1 wave, but as strong as a drone ship ones...)
Agreed. You NEED to differentiate drone ships from non-drone ships. I think a better route to take is to completely remove the drone bay from most non-gallente ships AND limit controllable drones on all non drone specializing ships.
If you pull dronebays off all non gallente ships, you will need to make blasters/rails do far less dmg on them. Hybrids are already the most dmg weapons in game, if they get a 10 drone advantage over all other ships, it will be even more unbalanced.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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