EVE Search - Nightmare or Paladin

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Nightmare or Paladin

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Reiisha Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence	Posted - 2009.01.14 11:42:00 - [61] Use Paladin if you want to armor tank. Use Nightmare if you want to shield tank. They are far too similar to make a choice based on performance, as they are much much closer than people try to make it look. Swings and roundabouts, really. The Paladin can loot and salvage while missioning and can pretty much perma-run everything, the Nightmare has a slightly stronger tank and dps due to the tracking, but is much harder to fit properly. I would say that the Paladin is somewhat easier to use, though. It doesn't require as much cap management as the Nightmare does. I can frequently aggro an entire stage, set loose the drones, and come back after half an hour to see the result in my Pally :)
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.14 12:27:00 - [62] I could fly both right now - tho my shield tanking skills are way lower than the Armor tanking ones... I tend to think that the average NM fit produces slightly moar DPS than the average Pally, tho that won't matter that much, as things tend to melt under the great alpha strike of those Tachys that amplify the "paper" dps show on simulators like EFT... Should the Alpha strike difference be that big so that the pally would require 5 salvos instead of 4 for each BS, could turn the scales heavily on the other side. But it doesn't seem likely to me. What seems likely to me, is the average NM costing more than the average Paladin - ppl go fetish around the pirate BS and spend huge amounts of money in order to make it more cap stable etc, while the pally can achieve comparable DPS and tank (in both ways usually over-tank) with greater cap stability using faction modules there where the NH would require deadspace ones... Should there be no suicide ganking, I wouldn't care: a pro mission player can usually afford building such a fit...but losing it hurts nomatter how rich you are...I would always prefer having a second pally around (or in my wallet) instead of an "uber expensive" NH, despite teh fetish
Jennz	Posted - 2009.01.14 13:18:00 - [63] Originally by: Reiisha I would say that the Paladin is somewhat easier to use, though. It doesn't require as much cap management as the Nightmare does. I can frequently aggro an entire stage, set loose the drones, and come back after half an hour to see the result in my Pally :) Sorry to nitpick but if you've got that attitude to running missions wouldn't a Dominix be better suited? Or if you can be bothered to be slightly at-the-keyboard the obvious park-it-in-middle-of-room-and-fire-in-all-directions CNR? People who talk about permatanking Nightmare/Paladin, or talk about AFK'ing in it miss the point entirely imo and shouldn't be flying one. Assuming you're using Tachys (and anyone who doesn't - see my previous statement) you still have to be mindful of prioritising targets - NM/Paladin instapops frigates & destroyers, but not if you let them orbit you.
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.01.14 13:22:00 - [64] Originally by: Jennz Originally by: Reiisha I would say that the Paladin is somewhat easier to use, though. It doesn't require as much cap management as the Nightmare does. I can frequently aggro an entire stage, set loose the drones, and come back after half an hour to see the result in my Pally :) Sorry to nitpick but if you've got that attitude to running missions wouldn't a Dominix be better suited? Or if you can be bothered to be slightly at-the-keyboard the obvious park-it-in-middle-of-room-and-fire-in-all-directions CNR? People who talk about permatanking Nightmare/Paladin, or talk about AFK'ing in it miss the point entirely imo and shouldn't be flying one. Assuming you're using Tachys (and anyone who doesn't - see my previous statement) you still have to be mindful of prioritising targets - NM/Paladin instapops frigates & destroyers, but not if you let them orbit you. This; precisely.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.14 14:19:00 - [65] To choose between Nightmare or Paladin: Decide whether you would rather put SP into Marauders or Caldari Battleship.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:11:00 - [66] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Helen I really need to fraps missions in a Paladin and a Nightmare to compare results. Might finally settle the dispute over which is best. Then again its still something people can argue over as some like to loot in a mission and others don't.... meh, just save the logs and look at them instead, way less hard drive space wasted To be honest logs don't show how a mission was run which is what some people will comment on with regards to the running speed of both ships. With fraps at least people can only argue over setups rather than your tactics to running the mission. Besides what the hell else do I use all this harddrive space for.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:46:00 - [67] Originally by: Helen Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Helen I really need to fraps missions in a Paladin and a Nightmare to compare results. Might finally settle the dispute over which is best. Then again its still something people can argue over as some like to loot in a mission and others don't.... meh, just save the logs and look at them instead, way less hard drive space wasted To be honest logs don't show how a mission was run which is what some people will comment on with regards to the running speed of both ships. With fraps at least people can only argue over setups rather than your tactics to running the mission. Besides what the hell else do I use all this harddrive space for. there are tactics other than: launch drones, ctrl+click, ctrl+click, f1-f4, etc...?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:01:00 - [68] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton it is rather easy to fit some tracking comps on a paladin though, was running 1 tc 1 web ( miss the 15km 99% domi web), might be worth it to try 2 tcs. Not too hard on the Nightmare either. I usually have a TC, and either one or two TE's. Which means, according to EFT graphs, MF remains the best crystal out to 55km. Which is nice. indeed, all rats ending up in mf range is <3 although I haven't come up with a nightmare setup where I can free up 3 slots like that. although I would probably go 2 te, 1 after burner.
Flavius Belisarios	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:13:00 - [69] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton indeed, all rats ending up in mf range is <3 although I haven't come up with a nightmare setup where I can free up 3 slots like that. although I would probably go 2 te, 1 after burner. Don't usually need an AB unless you're in a mission with multiple gates more than 20-30km apart. You should try a cap-boosted setup some time, unless you go the Gist Booster route, they're superior to the CR2 setups.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:28:00 - [70] Originally by: Flavius Belisarios Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton indeed, all rats ending up in mf range is <3 although I haven't come up with a nightmare setup where I can free up 3 slots like that. although I would probably go 2 te, 1 after burner. Don't usually need an AB unless you're in a mission with multiple gates more than 20-30km apart. You should try a cap-boosted setup some time, unless you go the Gist Booster route, they're superior to the CR2 setups. well luckily my paladin doesn't need a cap booster, and well I am quite against using a cap booster in a mission. and the afterburner was for a free slot. and there are a few missions with spread out gates, so it is nice to have.
Jennz	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:40:00 - [71] With the QR speed changes I've found an AB to be virtually essential - the difference between going 117.5m/s and 350+ makes a perceptible difference to me. Different strokes for different folks though I guess.
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.01.15 04:44:00 - [72] Originally by: Jennz With the QR speed changes I've found an AB to be virtually essential - the difference between going 117.5m/s and 350+ makes a perceptible difference to me. Different strokes for different folks though I guess. What for? I find I rarely need to mitigate transversal by actually flying in my 'mare. The only times I need an AB are on those missions where you must fly 50km to a gate, (and I only accept those if I'm running the mish to build someone's standing up, either in my corp or an alt). My targetting strategy is as follows: 1) Any Ewar ship, from smallest to largest 2) Cruisers, 3) Battlecruisers, 4) Battleships. Drones take care of standard, (nonscrambling) frigs. If you target the smallest ships first you can pop them before they get to orbits and battleships should never be a problem for nightmare tracking.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 05:12:00 - [73] Originally by: Petyr Baelich Originally by: Jennz With the QR speed changes I've found an AB to be virtually essential - the difference between going 117.5m/s and 350+ makes a perceptible difference to me. Different strokes for different folks though I guess. What for? I find I rarely need to mitigate transversal by actually flying in my 'mare. The only times I need an AB are on those missions where you must fly 50km to a gate, (and I only accept those if I'm running the mish to build someone's standing up, either in my corp or an alt). My targetting strategy is as follows: 1) Any Ewar ship, from smallest to largest 2) Cruisers, 3) Battlecruisers, 4) Battleships. Drones take care of standard, (nonscrambling) frigs. If you target the smallest ships first you can pop them before they get to orbits and battleships should never be a problem for nightmare tracking. pretty sure he just means the gate to gate part
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.01.15 07:29:00 - [74] Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 15/01/2009 07:34:45 edited for typos I don't see why someone would prefer a Nightmare over a Paladin 1) For Sansha/Blood the Paladin does better due to inate armor resistences. 2) For Serpentis/ Mercenaries they are equal but the Paladin is more cap stable 3) For Guristas they both suck 4) For angels Nightmare is better in defence "peak" but it's cap instabilty means that in the end of the day that defence "peak" can't be maintained for long enough unless you kill its dps for cap stabiltiy by puting more flux coils or PDU to the lows and removing heat sinks. 5) For close range missions in general the Paladin is better due to the fact that the web bonus gives you more comfort. I remember the other day that i managed to kill close orbiting spider drones with just mega pulses. It is good to know that even without your drones you can deal with the little things. 6) For long range missions if you would like to mount tachyons II and AB then the Nightmare could be better since it's the only one who can. But apart that tiny fraction of mission types were someone would like to fit Tachyons and AB i can't see any other mission type were a Nightmare would be more viable to a Paladin
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.15 09:04:00 - [75] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton there are tactics other than: launch drones, ctrl+click, ctrl+click, f1-f4, etc...? You don't always need to kill everything in a mission to complete it. Thing is its pointless arguing over this really they are both good ships just depends on where you run your missions. As a side note Worlds Collide can be run in less <5min in 0.0. As for you Zaran have you even flown a Nightmare? Cap fluxs are for noob raven pilots, if your fitting them to a Nightmare your insane or trying to achieve a permatank which is also insane.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.15 09:06:00 - [76] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Petyr Baelich Originally by: Jennz With the QR speed changes I've found an AB to be virtually essential - the difference between going 117.5m/s and 350+ makes a perceptible difference to me. Different strokes for different folks though I guess. What for? I find I rarely need to mitigate transversal by actually flying in my 'mare. The only times I need an AB are on those missions where you must fly 50km to a gate, (and I only accept those if I'm running the mish to build someone's standing up, either in my corp or an alt). My targetting strategy is as follows: 1) Any Ewar ship, from smallest to largest 2) Cruisers, 3) Battlecruisers, 4) Battleships. Drones take care of standard, (nonscrambling) frigs. If you target the smallest ships first you can pop them before they get to orbits and battleships should never be a problem for nightmare tracking. pretty sure he just means the gate to gate part Depends where you run missions in 0.0 a AB is essential for getting away from warp in points if someone is trying to scan you down.
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.01.15 09:43:00 - [77] Originally by: Helen As for you Zaran have you even flown a Nightmare? Cap fluxs are for noob raven pilots, if your fitting them to a Nightmare your insane or trying to achieve a permatank which is also insane. I usually avoid flux coils, i just gave them as example. I also never use totally cap stable setups. I don't say that the Nightmare is a bad ship I just say that the Paladin is better or equal in all missions. The only mission type that the Nightmar could be considered slightly tiny better would be certain Angel missions like recon 1/3 but for these type of missions one would be even better with Maelstorm or Raven.
Sanzorz Amarr Mark Of Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:32:00 - [78] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar I usually avoid flux coils, i just gave them as example. I also never use totally cap stable setups. I don't say that the Nightmare is a bad ship I just say that the Paladin is better or equal in all missions. The only mission type that the Nightmar could be considered slightly tiny better would be certain Angel missions like recon 1/3 but for these type of missions one would be even better with Maelstorm or Raven. Paladin is pretty much just an option for a lower skilled pilot, because overall armor tanking require less cap consumed. It's also a better option in tanking, when doing missions in amarr because of EM vs armor. That said it dosen't mean Nightmare have problems here. I use a cap stable tanking fit with only 4 tanking items and I have 3 heatsinks. Pretty much all missions I've tried in Amarr space I can mass aggro and hold without a problem. It's also terrible to say Nightmare is worse for tanking, because in most missions you munch down so many rats so fast that you barely have to use a shield booster.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:35:00 - [79] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar The only mission type that the Nightmar could be considered slightly tiny better would be certain Angel missions like recon 1/3 but for these type of missions one would be even better with Maelstorm or Raven. Why the hell would you run recon missions in a BS? Its immensely quicker to jump into a HAC/CBC and run it fast.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:32:00 - [80] Originally by: Helen Originally by: Zaran Darkstar The only mission type that the Nightmar could be considered slightly tiny better would be certain Angel missions like recon 1/3 but for these type of missions one would be even better with Maelstorm or Raven. Why the hell would you run recon missions in a BS? Its immensely quicker to jump into a HAC/CBC and run it fast. Recon part 1 usually features 10 or so 1 mill bounty battleships. And its a small area :)
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:54:00 - [81] Originally by: Hyveres Originally by: Helen Originally by: Zaran Darkstar The only mission type that the Nightmar could be considered slightly tiny better would be certain Angel missions like recon 1/3 but for these type of missions one would be even better with Maelstorm or Raven. Why the hell would you run recon missions in a BS? Its immensely quicker to jump into a HAC/CBC and run it fast. Recon part 1 usually features 10 or so 1 mill bounty battleships. And its a small area :) See this is where problems are because in empire its nice and safe to hang about and get bounties, in 0.0 I'd rather speed run recon missions/worlds collide for LP as its less risky and more productive for my time.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.01.15 16:49:00 - [82] If you want to run Recon series fast you use an inty for 1 and 2, and a cruiser/hac for 3. As far as missions go, I can't think of anything a CBC would be good for. (Good=better then something else)
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:42:00 - [83] Originally by: Helen See this is where problems are because in empire its nice and safe to hang about and get bounties, in 0.0 I'd rather speed run recon missions/worlds collide for LP as its less risky and more productive for my time. If you see 00 only good for ratting you are missing a great part of the profit potential of 00 like moonmining , mercoxite mining, manufacturing and trading,complex farming, even runing missions for certain pirate factions. Despite that ratting can be very profitable if you chain the belts or if you get the occasional officer spawn that might get you some pirate faction BS bpc or the so called "carrier spawn" were you can receive several millions of minerals.
Leandro Salazar Better Dead Then Smeg	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:24:00 - [84] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 15/01/2009 19:23:57 Funny to see three pages of arguments when the question was already thoroughly answered in the first reply... And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:30:00 - [85] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 15/01/2009 19:23:57 Funny to see three pages of arguments when the question was already thoroughly answered in the first reply... Yes but they both perform so closely that we can argue endlessly for those 'hah maybe its not teh absolute best for that but its obviously better for this!' type infinity discussions everyone so loves. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:57:00 - [86] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Originally by: Helen See this is where problems are because in empire its nice and safe to hang about and get bounties, in 0.0 I'd rather speed run recon missions/worlds collide for LP as its less risky and more productive for my time. If you see 00 only good for ratting you are missing a great part of the profit potential of 00 like moonmining , mercoxite mining, manufacturing and trading,complex farming, even runing missions for certain pirate factions. Despite that ratting can be very profitable if you chain the belts or if you get the occasional officer spawn that might get you some pirate faction BS bpc or the so called "carrier spawn" were you can receive several millions of minerals. I've played EvE for 6 years this year I think I know about 0.0 thanks. In case you missed my angle on this debate in this thread I'm talking from the viewpoint of running missions for pirate factions in 0.0.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 23:10:00 - [87] damn you helen and your 0.0ness! (in game) and I haven't gone for cap stability on a nightmare or paladin setup. 4m 44s on my paladin with my skills in eft. 5m 20s with all 5. on the nightmare I get 3 mins or stable at 40ish%
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 23:11:00 - [88] did I mention I have connection issues?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.15 23:13:00 - [89] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton did I mention I have connection issues? Which is why we forgive you for pursuing the fabled cap stable nightmare/paladin fit.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 23:20:00 - [90] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton did I mention I have connection issues? Which is why we forgive you for pursuing the fabled cap stable nightmare/paladin fit. read my above above post I just like to be able to run my tank forever, stable at 68% just rep running, 60% just guns, and well 4m 44s with it all going. that way when I do drop my stuff runs for the next 2 mins, and well didn't lose it yet. my raven alt though does permatank, and I even managed to fit 4 bcus on so w/e (now in a golem )

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.