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Omnoms Amarr IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.11 16:57:00 - [1] unlimited ISK budget... I;m an leaning towards paladin.. but I'd like to hear the thoughts of others. I've fiddled with EFT till I'm sick. I like the paladin armour tank. I like the nightmare passive tank. Paladin seems to have a cap advantage too.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:01:00 - [2] Paladin if your solo running and want to salvage or Nightmare if you could care less about loot/salvage and just want the iskies, lp and jump clones as fast as possible. Also t2 fit it and spend all the isk on a hg crystal set so your friends in the Idle Empire don't 'get any ideas' so to speak.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:07:00 - [3] Paladin all the way. Permarunning armortank, with 2 Tracking Computers better range/tracking then Nightmare, looting while shooting, same Damage as Nightmare, 200Mil less cost and the big bonus of pure sexyness.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:20:00 - [4] Originally by: fuxinos Paladin all the way. Permarunning armortank, with 2 Tracking Computers better range/tracking then Nightmare, looting while shooting, same Damage as Nightmare, 200Mil less cost and the big bonus of pure sexyness. Hahahahaa good one. Show me those fits.
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:37:00 - [5] normal paladin fit but switch a hardener for a cpr and a cap recharger for a second tracking comp... --------------------------------------------- Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
achoura	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:37:00 - [6] If you have the skills paladin, if you dont nightmare. *The EVE servers and their patches*
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:59:00 - [7] pffft nightmare is superior for pvp and pve unless tractor beams give you a hard-on or you really need an armor tanker for rr.
Nai Weil Caldari Tupperware Party	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Myra2007 pffft nightmare is superior for pvp and pve unless tractor beams give you a hard-on or you really need an armor tanker for rr. Or if you're Amarr all the way and have not trained any shield skills whatsoever (or don't want to crosstrain to Caldari). Nightmare is generally more popular because it does better damage due to the tracking bonuses, and some people just love the hull (although, as in all things subjective, some hate it). My personal choice, for example, is Paladin because I'm a much better armour tanker than shield tanker, and I don't like the look of the Sansha ships.
7shining7one7 Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:18:00 - [9] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 11/01/2009 18:20:00 the only reason to use a paladin over a nightmare is if you don't have the skills or if you want to loot and salvage and don't plan on using heatsink nos for overload dmg. the nightmare has stronger tank and same dps.. and increased tracking for the tachyons.. it's the best subcapital laserboat in game, as it is. a shield tanking laserboat with tachyons and tracking bonus is the cue for you to fight to run away..
Omnoms Amarr IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:55:00 - [10] i hadnt considered using a crystal set. could you maybe post some eft figures to support your statements? i am having severe difficulty getting a nightmare to produce a cap stable tank of 575 or more. whereas a paladin will do that very easily.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.11 19:30:00 - [11] Why the hell do you need to be cap stable? Connection issues? Anyway to fit a Nightmare for cap stability is to lose the damage in some manner, its really about the gank to tank. Personally I find it kills stuff so fast some missions I never use the Booster. But if you got a hardon for cap stable then maybe a Paladin is what you need.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.11 19:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Omnoms i hadnt considered using a crystal set. could you maybe post some eft figures to support your statements? i am having severe difficulty getting a nightmare to produce a cap stable tank of 575 or more. whereas a paladin will do that very easily. You don't need a cap stable setup when your boosting 1300 shield per cycle off a crap t2 tank with hg crystals as you only boost for a few cycles every few minutes or so until you kill off the aggro. Add some cheap or not so cheap faction hardners and amps and you will rarely need to boost at all. Bonus for having in the hg set is you can turn a normal gate gank raven into a tanking beast as long as the cap charges last when the anti-pies show up. Nice for that little gate camp you guys like to run.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:28:00 - [13] Perma running a NH for missions is not wise, and you do not need to. Basiaclly use teh same tank as a CNR and your set ^^. Also NM > Paladin for PvP and missions due to shield tank :).
Sarkiss Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:37:00 - [14] Nightmare, it'll get the ladies ;)
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:43:00 - [15] If you are going for a permatank go with the paladin. The nightmare is made for extreme dps setups with a cyclical tank or just blowing through stuff at speed and not really tanking much at all(some missions will not give you that option though but most do). "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
Pry Maraai Amarr Unknown but Ancient	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:16:00 - [16] For missions there is very little difference between them. Its the same dps, and both can perma tank, but you will be more effective with less tank. Paladin is better for isk/h. Nightmare is better for LP/h. If you have shield skills, go for nightmare, if you have armor skills go for paladin.
Ivena Amethyst	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:44:00 - [17] Nightmare permatanks fine imo, you just need do get some faction CPR's (way cheeper than HG crystals)
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:33:00 - [18] Originally by: Ivena Amethyst Nightmare permatanks fine imo, you just need do get some faction CPR's (way cheeper than HG crystals) But why bohter? Its not like you need to perma it? Rats harldy give any damage .
Bruce Carraway	Posted - 2009.01.12 00:40:00 - [19] Edited by: Bruce Carraway on 12/01/2009 00:45:04 [Nightmare, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I cap last for 14m 18s with CR8,G2-beta, and CC8 implants [Paladin, New Setup 1] True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II cap stable for 14m 9s with the cap implants
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Bruce Carraway Edited by: Bruce Carraway on 12/01/2009 00:45:04 [Overcapped Setups] I know you were just trying to make a point, but really there's no need to fit your nightmare this way. (Haven't flown the pally, so I won't comment on that). CCC 2, 2xCCC 1, and a heavy booster. That's it. Cap for days; barrels of cap! You won't need more cap than the rigs to fire your guns, and for the rare events when you need to turn on the booster, well that's what the cap booster is for. My standard 'mare setup: [Nightmare, Tach] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Shield Boost Amplifier II X-Large Shield Booster II 100MN Afterburner II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Photon Scattering Field II Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 I switch out the AB for a sensor booster if there are lots of small ships, for a 4th hardener on those rare missions where I need a bit more tank, and for a tracking computer for when I don't need to move at all, but there are lots of close-orbiting ships. Can't go wrong with the Nightmare. It's a wonderful ship, as close to perfect as one will get, and by far my favourite to fly.
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2009.01.12 02:31:00 - [21] Edited by: Denuo Secus on 12/01/2009 02:33:09 I don't get the looting argument for the Paladin. It's beam lasers can and should hit far beyond the bonused 40km tractor range. And NPC's spawn in many missions at much more than 40km. So slow boating to get into this 40km range isn't a good idea in a BS, isn't it? What did I miss?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.12 03:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Denuo Secus Edited by: Denuo Secus on 12/01/2009 02:33:09 I don't get the looting argument for the Paladin. It's beam lasers can and should hit far beyond the bonused 40km tractor range. And NPC's spawn in many missions at much more than 40km. So slow boating to get into this 40km range isn't a good idea in a BS, isn't it? What did I miss? can, but it usually ends up with a 50km (pretty much effective range of amarr navy multi) wreck bubble, stuff that is outside is usually frigs/cruiser wrecks. this is what I run (for missions ofc): I can't seem to find a nightmare setup I like better.... 5 min cap stable from eft is all that is really needed. stop shooting for a half second in between targets and well it stretches the cap out for a while. that and I just really don't want to bother with cap boosters in a mission. [Paladin, Tachys] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Pry Maraai Amarr Unknown but Ancient	Posted - 2009.01.12 06:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Denuo Secus Edited by: Denuo Secus on 12/01/2009 02:33:09 I don't get the looting argument for the Paladin. It's beam lasers can and should hit far beyond the bonused 40km tractor range. And NPC's spawn in many missions at much more than 40km. So slow boating to get into this 40km range isn't a good idea in a BS, isn't it? What did I miss? Thats why I prefer pulses over beams myself. Very few (if any) sansha/blood ships orbit outside 40km. By the time I have killed all the approaching frigates and cruisers with scorch, I can usually switch to MF and kill the first BS. I allways have an AB fitted, but rarly need to use it for looting, its mostly for getting to the next gate faster.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:43:00 - [24] In my opinion if skills are not an issue to you then Nightmare would be superior over Paladin for level 4 missions. Granted for amarr specced char going for Paladin would be a bit easier. And ofc keep in mind that I have no personal experience flying either.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.01.12 09:05:00 - [25] Edited by: fuxinos on 12/01/2009 09:05:07 [Paladin, nightmare?] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Dark Blood Armor EM Hardener Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Dark Blood Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Dark Blood Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Dark Blood Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Dark Blood Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II Paladin can easily do anything a Nightmare can and a bit more...
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.01.12 09:23:00 - [26] They are both extremely good ships. Paladin is (much) cheaper to get a permatank setup for... but otoh, they both push out so much dps that you really don't need a permatank. I fly a Nightmare with plain-vanilla t2 tank, and never had a problem even though it's far from cap stable (I use cap boosters to keep me in cap). You really can't go wrong with either one, honestly.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.01.12 09:50:00 - [27] Originally by: fuxinos Paladin can easily do anything a Nightmare can and a bit more... Nightmare: 7.5 % tracking (amarr bs), 5% damage (caldari bs) and that flat 100% damage Paladin: 5% capacitor, 10% web from amarr BS, 7.5% repair and 5% damage from marauder, and then that flat 100% damage and 100% tractor bonus. And a bit better resists also ofc as it's afterall T2 ship. So Nightmare has better tracking while Paladin has better armor tank, web bonus and tractor beams. Nightmare is also usually used as shield tank while Paladin armor tanks. I have no doubt that you can run missions in paladin quite well. Reason why I stated however that if skills are not an issue is, that it's slot layout is better for PvE and tracking bonus will help more than those new webs when max skilled for the ship.
Bruce Carraway	Posted - 2009.01.12 10:41:00 - [28] i fly both with max skills and i prefer the paladin because: 1. can use the tracking comps in the mid (3 optimal scripts MF crystal goes out to 46km optimal or 3 tracking scripts making it track better than pulse with scorch) 2. can lock 10 target at once (nice because tachyon kill thing too fast) 3. it is also faster than the nightmare 4. the tractor beam bonus really helps 5. the paladin have farther locking range
Aurora Tagan Epic Army	Posted - 2009.01.12 10:52:00 - [29] Perma tanking Nightmare does it for me :) . 4x Tachyon Beam laser II (Amarr Navy Multifrequency) 1x Drone Link Augmentor 1x Small Tractor Beam 1x X-Large Shield Booster II 3x Mission Specific Hardeners II 2x Shield Boost Amplifier II 1x Cap Recharger II 5x Capacitor Flux Coil II 5x Medium Drone II 5x Light Drone II Runs all modules permanently with a rather nice dps with the relevant skills at level 5. I prefer the looks of the Nightmare over the Paladin, but that's just me .
Sanzorz Amarr Mark Of Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.12 11:08:00 - [30] I had the Nightmare maxed before Marauders came into the game. I'd prefer the Nightmare anyway. Lots of tracking and you don't have to waste spots for this. High 4 Navy Tachs (less cap used) 2 Tractors Med: 1 Gist XL booster (omg suicide target!), 3 hardeners, 2 cap rechargers and 1 TC with tracking script Low: 3 Navy HS, 1 PDU and 1 Cap Flux Rigs: 3 CCC rigs. Cap stable with MF and burning through missions. It's a beast when you have max Gunnery and Gunnery implants.

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