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Omnoms Amarr IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.11 16:57:00 - [1] unlimited ISK budget... I;m an leaning towards paladin.. but I'd like to hear the thoughts of others. I've fiddled with EFT till I'm sick. I like the paladin armour tank. I like the nightmare passive tank. Paladin seems to have a cap advantage too.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:01:00 - [2] Paladin if your solo running and want to salvage or Nightmare if you could care less about loot/salvage and just want the iskies, lp and jump clones as fast as possible. Also t2 fit it and spend all the isk on a hg crystal set so your friends in the Idle Empire don't 'get any ideas' so to speak.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:07:00 - [3] Paladin all the way. Permarunning armortank, with 2 Tracking Computers better range/tracking then Nightmare, looting while shooting, same Damage as Nightmare, 200Mil less cost and the big bonus of pure sexyness.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:20:00 - [4] Originally by: fuxinos Paladin all the way. Permarunning armortank, with 2 Tracking Computers better range/tracking then Nightmare, looting while shooting, same Damage as Nightmare, 200Mil less cost and the big bonus of pure sexyness. Hahahahaa good one. Show me those fits.
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:37:00 - [5] normal paladin fit but switch a hardener for a cpr and a cap recharger for a second tracking comp... --------------------------------------------- Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
achoura	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:37:00 - [6] If you have the skills paladin, if you dont nightmare. *The EVE servers and their patches*
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:59:00 - [7] pffft nightmare is superior for pvp and pve unless tractor beams give you a hard-on or you really need an armor tanker for rr.
Nai Weil Caldari Tupperware Party	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Myra2007 pffft nightmare is superior for pvp and pve unless tractor beams give you a hard-on or you really need an armor tanker for rr. Or if you're Amarr all the way and have not trained any shield skills whatsoever (or don't want to crosstrain to Caldari). Nightmare is generally more popular because it does better damage due to the tracking bonuses, and some people just love the hull (although, as in all things subjective, some hate it). My personal choice, for example, is Paladin because I'm a much better armour tanker than shield tanker, and I don't like the look of the Sansha ships.
7shining7one7 Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:18:00 - [9] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 11/01/2009 18:20:00 the only reason to use a paladin over a nightmare is if you don't have the skills or if you want to loot and salvage and don't plan on using heatsink nos for overload dmg. the nightmare has stronger tank and same dps.. and increased tracking for the tachyons.. it's the best subcapital laserboat in game, as it is. a shield tanking laserboat with tachyons and tracking bonus is the cue for you to fight to run away..
Omnoms Amarr IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:55:00 - [10] i hadnt considered using a crystal set. could you maybe post some eft figures to support your statements? i am having severe difficulty getting a nightmare to produce a cap stable tank of 575 or more. whereas a paladin will do that very easily.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.11 19:30:00 - [11] Why the hell do you need to be cap stable? Connection issues? Anyway to fit a Nightmare for cap stability is to lose the damage in some manner, its really about the gank to tank. Personally I find it kills stuff so fast some missions I never use the Booster. But if you got a hardon for cap stable then maybe a Paladin is what you need.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.11 19:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Omnoms i hadnt considered using a crystal set. could you maybe post some eft figures to support your statements? i am having severe difficulty getting a nightmare to produce a cap stable tank of 575 or more. whereas a paladin will do that very easily. You don't need a cap stable setup when your boosting 1300 shield per cycle off a crap t2 tank with hg crystals as you only boost for a few cycles every few minutes or so until you kill off the aggro. Add some cheap or not so cheap faction hardners and amps and you will rarely need to boost at all. Bonus for having in the hg set is you can turn a normal gate gank raven into a tanking beast as long as the cap charges last when the anti-pies show up. Nice for that little gate camp you guys like to run.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:28:00 - [13] Perma running a NH for missions is not wise, and you do not need to. Basiaclly use teh same tank as a CNR and your set ^^. Also NM > Paladin for PvP and missions due to shield tank :).
Sarkiss Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:37:00 - [14] Nightmare, it'll get the ladies ;)
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:43:00 - [15] If you are going for a permatank go with the paladin. The nightmare is made for extreme dps setups with a cyclical tank or just blowing through stuff at speed and not really tanking much at all(some missions will not give you that option though but most do). "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
Pry Maraai Amarr Unknown but Ancient	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:16:00 - [16] For missions there is very little difference between them. Its the same dps, and both can perma tank, but you will be more effective with less tank. Paladin is better for isk/h. Nightmare is better for LP/h. If you have shield skills, go for nightmare, if you have armor skills go for paladin.
Ivena Amethyst	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:44:00 - [17] Nightmare permatanks fine imo, you just need do get some faction CPR's (way cheeper than HG crystals)
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:33:00 - [18] Originally by: Ivena Amethyst Nightmare permatanks fine imo, you just need do get some faction CPR's (way cheeper than HG crystals) But why bohter? Its not like you need to perma it? Rats harldy give any damage .
Bruce Carraway	Posted - 2009.01.12 00:40:00 - [19] Edited by: Bruce Carraway on 12/01/2009 00:45:04 [Nightmare, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I cap last for 14m 18s with CR8,G2-beta, and CC8 implants [Paladin, New Setup 1] True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II cap stable for 14m 9s with the cap implants
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Bruce Carraway Edited by: Bruce Carraway on 12/01/2009 00:45:04 [Overcapped Setups] I know you were just trying to make a point, but really there's no need to fit your nightmare this way. (Haven't flown the pally, so I won't comment on that). CCC 2, 2xCCC 1, and a heavy booster. That's it. Cap for days; barrels of cap! You won't need more cap than the rigs to fire your guns, and for the rare events when you need to turn on the booster, well that's what the cap booster is for. My standard 'mare setup: [Nightmare, Tach] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Shield Boost Amplifier II X-Large Shield Booster II 100MN Afterburner II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Photon Scattering Field II Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 I switch out the AB for a sensor booster if there are lots of small ships, for a 4th hardener on those rare missions where I need a bit more tank, and for a tracking computer for when I don't need to move at all, but there are lots of close-orbiting ships. Can't go wrong with the Nightmare. It's a wonderful ship, as close to perfect as one will get, and by far my favourite to fly.
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2009.01.12 02:31:00 - [21] Edited by: Denuo Secus on 12/01/2009 02:33:09 I don't get the looting argument for the Paladin. It's beam lasers can and should hit far beyond the bonused 40km tractor range. And NPC's spawn in many missions at much more than 40km. So slow boating to get into this 40km range isn't a good idea in a BS, isn't it? What did I miss?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.12 03:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Denuo Secus Edited by: Denuo Secus on 12/01/2009 02:33:09 I don't get the looting argument for the Paladin. It's beam lasers can and should hit far beyond the bonused 40km tractor range. And NPC's spawn in many missions at much more than 40km. So slow boating to get into this 40km range isn't a good idea in a BS, isn't it? What did I miss? can, but it usually ends up with a 50km (pretty much effective range of amarr navy multi) wreck bubble, stuff that is outside is usually frigs/cruiser wrecks. this is what I run (for missions ofc): I can't seem to find a nightmare setup I like better.... 5 min cap stable from eft is all that is really needed. stop shooting for a half second in between targets and well it stretches the cap out for a while. that and I just really don't want to bother with cap boosters in a mission. [Paladin, Tachys] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Pry Maraai Amarr Unknown but Ancient	Posted - 2009.01.12 06:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Denuo Secus Edited by: Denuo Secus on 12/01/2009 02:33:09 I don't get the looting argument for the Paladin. It's beam lasers can and should hit far beyond the bonused 40km tractor range. And NPC's spawn in many missions at much more than 40km. So slow boating to get into this 40km range isn't a good idea in a BS, isn't it? What did I miss? Thats why I prefer pulses over beams myself. Very few (if any) sansha/blood ships orbit outside 40km. By the time I have killed all the approaching frigates and cruisers with scorch, I can usually switch to MF and kill the first BS. I allways have an AB fitted, but rarly need to use it for looting, its mostly for getting to the next gate faster.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:43:00 - [24] In my opinion if skills are not an issue to you then Nightmare would be superior over Paladin for level 4 missions. Granted for amarr specced char going for Paladin would be a bit easier. And ofc keep in mind that I have no personal experience flying either.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.01.12 09:05:00 - [25] Edited by: fuxinos on 12/01/2009 09:05:07 [Paladin, nightmare?] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Dark Blood Armor EM Hardener Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Dark Blood Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Dark Blood Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Dark Blood Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Dark Blood Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II Paladin can easily do anything a Nightmare can and a bit more...
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.01.12 09:23:00 - [26] They are both extremely good ships. Paladin is (much) cheaper to get a permatank setup for... but otoh, they both push out so much dps that you really don't need a permatank. I fly a Nightmare with plain-vanilla t2 tank, and never had a problem even though it's far from cap stable (I use cap boosters to keep me in cap). You really can't go wrong with either one, honestly.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.01.12 09:50:00 - [27] Originally by: fuxinos Paladin can easily do anything a Nightmare can and a bit more... Nightmare: 7.5 % tracking (amarr bs), 5% damage (caldari bs) and that flat 100% damage Paladin: 5% capacitor, 10% web from amarr BS, 7.5% repair and 5% damage from marauder, and then that flat 100% damage and 100% tractor bonus. And a bit better resists also ofc as it's afterall T2 ship. So Nightmare has better tracking while Paladin has better armor tank, web bonus and tractor beams. Nightmare is also usually used as shield tank while Paladin armor tanks. I have no doubt that you can run missions in paladin quite well. Reason why I stated however that if skills are not an issue is, that it's slot layout is better for PvE and tracking bonus will help more than those new webs when max skilled for the ship.
Bruce Carraway	Posted - 2009.01.12 10:41:00 - [28] i fly both with max skills and i prefer the paladin because: 1. can use the tracking comps in the mid (3 optimal scripts MF crystal goes out to 46km optimal or 3 tracking scripts making it track better than pulse with scorch) 2. can lock 10 target at once (nice because tachyon kill thing too fast) 3. it is also faster than the nightmare 4. the tractor beam bonus really helps 5. the paladin have farther locking range
Aurora Tagan Epic Army	Posted - 2009.01.12 10:52:00 - [29] Perma tanking Nightmare does it for me :) . 4x Tachyon Beam laser II (Amarr Navy Multifrequency) 1x Drone Link Augmentor 1x Small Tractor Beam 1x X-Large Shield Booster II 3x Mission Specific Hardeners II 2x Shield Boost Amplifier II 1x Cap Recharger II 5x Capacitor Flux Coil II 5x Medium Drone II 5x Light Drone II Runs all modules permanently with a rather nice dps with the relevant skills at level 5. I prefer the looks of the Nightmare over the Paladin, but that's just me .
Sanzorz Amarr Mark Of Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.12 11:08:00 - [30] I had the Nightmare maxed before Marauders came into the game. I'd prefer the Nightmare anyway. Lots of tracking and you don't have to waste spots for this. High 4 Navy Tachs (less cap used) 2 Tractors Med: 1 Gist XL booster (omg suicide target!), 3 hardeners, 2 cap rechargers and 1 TC with tracking script Low: 3 Navy HS, 1 PDU and 1 Cap Flux Rigs: 3 CCC rigs. Cap stable with MF and burning through missions. It's a beast when you have max Gunnery and Gunnery implants.
comrade captain Aliastra	Posted - 2009.01.12 11:22:00 - [31] Edited by: comrade captain on 12/01/2009 11:22:48 Originally by: Aurora Tagan Perma tanking Nightmare does it for me :) . 4x Tachyon Beam laser II (Amarr Navy Multifrequency) 1x Drone Link Augmentor 1x Small Tractor Beam 1x X-Large Shield Booster II 3x Mission Specific Hardeners II 2x Shield Boost Amplifier II 1x Cap Recharger II 5x Capacitor Flux Coil II 5x Medium Drone II 5x Light Drone II Runs all modules permanently with a rather nice dps with the relevant skills at level 5. I prefer the looks of the Nightmare over the Paladin, but that's just me . not a single damage mod and 5 cap flux coils in lows makes baby jesus cry
Aurora Tagan Epic Army	Posted - 2009.01.12 11:40:00 - [32] What, it works! Cap flux coils allows me to afk run missions whilst at work
Lim Lim	Posted - 2009.01.12 12:10:00 - [33] Edited by: Lim Lim on 12/01/2009 12:12:24 Edited by: Lim Lim on 12/01/2009 12:10:41 I use a Nightmare and love it. I can't see how you can get a Paladin to the same DPS level with the Nightmare caldari BS 5% dmg bonuses. I run the following mids (and I haven't had any issues in L4 missions even though I don't have skills maxed etc). I can perma run everything so if you control agro there should be no issue. Plus these mids are affordable and you don't need to shell out hundreds of mill on a deadspace L or XL booster. Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas active mod switched for mission type Dread Guristas active mod switched for mission type Cap Recharger II My thoughts are that range is key so use tachyons. If you really want to loot in a BS then that would be the reason for a Paladin. Personally I am not up for crawling around a mission in a BS most of the time when I could gank it faster in a NM and be onto the next mission etc etc.
Jennz	Posted - 2009.01.12 12:59:00 - [34] Edited by: Jennz on 12/01/2009 12:59:27 Originally by: Lim Lim Edited by: Lim Lim on 12/01/2009 12:12:24 Edited by: Lim Lim on 12/01/2009 12:10:41 I use a Nightmare and love it. I can't see how you can get a Paladin to the same DPS level with the Nightmare caldari BS 5% dmg bonuses. Well, Paladin has 50 more calibration points and a bigger cap which means you could probably fit an Energy Collision Accelerator rig (+10% DPS) or even the T2 version (+15% DPS) which would make a difference.
comrade captain Aliastra	Posted - 2009.01.12 13:01:00 - [35] Hey jennz i bet your ship absolutely pwns now you have got the 4 drac/chelm tachs, what heatsinks you using and whats your dps now?
Sanzorz Amarr Mark Of Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.12 15:29:00 - [36] Originally by: Jennz Edited by: Jennz on 12/01/2009 12:59:27 Well, Paladin has 50 more calibration points and a bigger cap which means you could probably fit an Energy Collision Accelerator rig (+10% DPS) or even the T2 version (+15% DPS) which would make a difference. Afaik gunnery rigs are affected by the stacking nerf when you use Heatsinks, and those are easy to fit on both ships...so a bit of a waste of calibration points in my eyes. Another reason to go for Nightmare is the phun of training Caldari BS5 which unlocks a few other options than just Marauder. Plus it's faster to learn Caldari BS5.
ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2009.01.12 15:33:00 - [37] Originally by: Lim Lim I use a Nightmare and love it. I can't see how you can get a Paladin to the same DPS level with the Nightmare caldari BS 5% dmg bonuses. Maybe you should read the description for the Paladin Originally by: Paladin Description Marauder Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to repair amount of armor repair systems and 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level Also your setup doesn't have any tracking mods, so a Paladin with 2 or 3 tracking comps will have better tracking, even with the Nightmares tracking bonus. Plus 40km tractor beams.
Esamir	Posted - 2009.01.12 15:48:00 - [38] Originally by: Sanzorz Originally by: Jennz Edited by: Jennz on 12/01/2009 12:59:27 Well, Paladin has 50 more calibration points and a bigger cap which means you could probably fit an Energy Collision Accelerator rig (+10% DPS) or even the T2 version (+15% DPS) which would make a difference. Afaik gunnery rigs are affected by the stacking nerf when you use Heatsinks, and those are easy to fit on both ships...so a bit of a waste of calibration points in my eyes. The T1 is a waste, but since the T2 is likely the highest percentage in the stack, it'll be unpenalised and still give a significant boost to DPS. Also, re: setups without heatsinks....IMO if you undock a Nightmare with no damage mods, a fleet of 200 Sansha BS should spawn and relieve you of your ship
Jennz	Posted - 2009.01.12 16:15:00 - [39] Originally by: Esamir Originally by: Sanzorz Originally by: Jennz Edited by: Jennz on 12/01/2009 12:59:27 Well, Paladin has 50 more calibration points and a bigger cap which means you could probably fit an Energy Collision Accelerator rig (+10% DPS) or even the T2 version (+15% DPS) which would make a difference. Afaik gunnery rigs are affected by the stacking nerf when you use Heatsinks, and those are easy to fit on both ships...so a bit of a waste of calibration points in my eyes. The T1 is a waste, but since the T2 is likely the highest percentage in the stack, it'll be unpenalised and still give a significant boost to DPS. I never knew that, that's definitely useful info. That just reaffirms my suspicion that an T2 ECA (which is actually viable on a Paladin given the cap bonus) would push Paladin DPS above the Nightmare. Nightmare is vertical though, so it's swings and roundabouts I guess Originally by: comrade captain Hey jennz i bet your ship absolutely pwns now you have got the 4 drac/chelm tachs, what heatsinks you using and whats your dps now? No idea, over 1k I guess, haven't bothered checking - I just like shiny things.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.12 17:07:00 - [40] My Nightmare setup: (I'm at 90mil sp so pretty much maxed skills) Highs: 4 x Tach T2/Amarr Navy (Really bugger all difference but the faction ones let your cap run longer) 2 x Neuts/Smartbombs/Tractor/AutoTargeter (About the only aspect I change to suit the mission) Meds: 1 x XL T2 Booster 1 x T2 Shield Boost Amp 1 x Shadow Serp 100mn AB 2 x Invulnerability Field T2 1 x Shadow Serp Sensor Booster/Heavy Cap Booster T2 (Depends on if its a heavy mission) Lows: 3 x True Sansha Heat Sinks 2 x Power Diagnostic Systems T2 (Gives me the PG to fit Smartbombs/Neuts) Ammo: Usually a selection of Amarr Navy Multi/Standard/Microwave/Radio, really can't be bothered to carry more types than that. Drones: 5 x Hammerhead T2 5 x Hornet EC-300/Hobgoblin T2 (depends on local channel)
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:39:00 - [41] Originally by: Helen My Nightmare setup: (I'm at 90mil sp so pretty much maxed skills) Highs: 4 x Tach T2/Amarr Navy (Really bugger all difference but the faction ones let your cap run longer) 2 x Neuts/Smartbombs/Tractor/AutoTargeter (About the only aspect I change to suit the mission) Meds: 1 x XL T2 Booster 1 x T2 Shield Boost Amp 1 x Shadow Serp 100mn AB 2 x Invulnerability Field T2 1 x Shadow Serp Sensor Booster/Heavy Cap Booster T2 (Depends on if its a heavy mission) Lows: 3 x True Sansha Heat Sinks 2 x Power Diagnostic Systems T2 (Gives me the PG to fit Smartbombs/Neuts) Ammo: Usually a selection of Amarr Navy Multi/Standard/Microwave/Radio, really can't be bothered to carry more types than that. Drones: 5 x Hammerhead T2 5 x Hornet EC-300/Hobgoblin T2 (depends on local channel) Nice setup. I'll have to try the PDUs & smarties some time and see if that gives me a speed increase over another heatsink & tracking enhancer. I have to ask, though: what's with the long-range ammo? I've never needed to go longer than Ultraviolet with tachs, (at least not in a mission). Also, I like to use 5 vespa EC-600 & 5 hobs/warriors instead of your flipped setup. Hammerheads just can't deal with frigates effectively enough since the patch, cruisers are the first targets for my guns, and everything else orbits too far away for drones to offer any meaningful help when you consider flight-times.
Garcea Minmatar Viper Squad	Posted - 2009.01.13 07:26:00 - [42] Originally by: Petyr Baelich Nice setup. I'll have to try the PDUs & smarties some time and see if that gives me a speed increase over another heatsink & tracking enhancer. I have to ask, though: what's with the long-range ammo? I've never needed to go longer than Ultraviolet with tachs, (at least not in a mission). Also, I like to use 5 vespa EC-600 & 5 hobs/warriors instead of your flipped setup. Hammerheads just can't deal with frigates effectively enough since the patch, cruisers are the first targets for my guns, and everything else orbits too far away for drones to offer any meaningful help when you consider flight-times. Considering I run missions in 0.0 its bound to be abit different to high sec mission setups. Smartbombs are useful against enemy drones/coverts warping into mission or against npc frigates. I use longer range ammo because of 0.0 fighting conditions especially if facing long range Falcons or infact some missions require me to hit out at 120km to save travelling time, besides it doesn't hurt to carry abit more ammo. I don't worry about frig spawns in missions because I always primary them first when transversal is low. Therefore the only things likely to close in past my tracking ability is cruisers which is what HammerHead's are for. With regards to ammo just take what you need for your range I was just sharing my load out.
Opertone Caldari Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:47:00 - [43] I have never flown Amarr, but I am starting to like what I see. Why not use locus rigs, which give +10% to optimal range? Why not go one size smaller booster/repper, but instead get a more cap efficient device (gist a-type, corpii a-type). Paladin can benefit from a capacitor booster, in sanshas missions it can restock the cap boosters on the fly. Tracking computers are good, but extra hardeners and locus rigs are better. Spend less capacitor on smaller tier shield booster, overheat shield booster. Get longer range with locus rigs. Shield tankers benefit from high resistances, passive recharge allows to ignore minor DPS. The crystal set can make a difference even with pith b-type small shield booster.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.13 11:04:00 - [44] Why would you need locus rigs while using tachs? You miss out on using armor/cap rigs if you use them while nerfing your pg which is especially hard on the Paladin.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Opertone I have never flown Amarr, but I am starting to like what I see. Why not use locus rigs, which give +10% to optimal range? Why not go one size smaller booster/repper, but instead get a more cap efficient device (gist a-type, corpii a-type). Paladin can benefit from a capacitor booster, in sanshas missions it can restock the cap boosters on the fly. Tracking computers are good, but extra hardeners and locus rigs are better. Spend less capacitor on smaller tier shield booster, overheat shield booster. Get longer range with locus rigs. Shield tankers benefit from high resistances, passive recharge allows to ignore minor DPS. The crystal set can make a difference even with pith b-type small shield booster. You can already use tracking computers for optimal, locust is stacking against them and offering smaller effect. As far as smaller boosters go you sound like you would try to 'permatank' that ship. If so then more power to you, altho most missionrunners who do it as their main income and are actually paying attention to what they do tend to go with non sutainable high peak damage soaking ability over permatanks and use their damage dealing ability as tank. Dead rats do no damage. You assume that pilot is looting while he is doing a mission. In most scenarios it is not so as it's more efficent to just kill everything and then come in later in dedicated looting ship. Tracking computers are better than locust for abovementioned reasons. Some missionrunners DO overheat ... sometimes ... when they are in deep enough trouble. Depending on luck they bcan last as long as minute or so before shieldbooster breaks. Nanite paste is too bulky (and expencive) to use on regular basis in missionrunning. Most missionrunners prefer max skills and +5 sets to crystals. Tanking is not an issue in missions when pilot knows what he is doing. Killing NPC's faster is.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:04:00 - [46] Edited by: fuxinos on 13/01/2009 12:05:16 Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: fuxinos Paladin can easily do anything a Nightmare can and a bit more... Nightmare: 7.5 % tracking (amarr bs), 5% damage (caldari bs) and that flat 100% damage Paladin: 5% capacitor, 10% web from amarr BS, 7.5% repair and 5% damage from marauder, and then that flat 100% damage and 100% tractor bonus. And a bit better resists also ofc as it's afterall T2 ship. So Nightmare has better tracking while Paladin has better armor tank, web bonus and tractor beams. Nightmare is also usually used as shield tank while Paladin armor tanks. I have no doubt that you can run missions in paladin quite well. Reason why I stated however that if skills are not an issue is, that it's slot layout is better for PvE and tracking bonus will help more than those new webs when max skilled for the ship. Switch the Optimal Script to a Tracking Script and there you go, better tracking then Nightmare...
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:45:00 - [47] I really need to fraps missions in a Paladin and a Nightmare to compare results. Might finally settle the dispute over which is best. Then again its still something people can argue over as some like to loot in a mission and others don't....
comrade captain Aliastra	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:51:00 - [48] i think its pretty simple, if you need to salvage then paladin is better, if you just kill and want speedy missions then the nightmare is a little bit better ( the hits are higher dmg )
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:57:00 - [49] Originally by: comrade captain i think its pretty simple, if you need to salvage then paladin is better, if you just kill and want speedy missions then the nightmare is a little bit better ( the hits are higher dmg ) Pretty much what my first reply to the thread stated and there is another perk for the Nightmare. If you screw up and your tank breaks under full aggro you will have a lot more time to gtfo as you still have all that armor to go through whilst an armor tanker is already in hull sweating balls as he frantically tries to kill that last scrambling frig. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Ka'loor Amarr Die Argonen	Posted - 2009.01.13 14:09:00 - [50] I fly a Paladin and do not intend to switch over to a Nightmare ever because: It looks better nut thats me :P on a more serious note. It fits 2! Tracking comps, so if a nightmare doesnt fit some too, i have better tracking. It has 3 Heat sinks so i can breach 1k DPS with good skills and some imps. It does run 99% perma. EFT doesnt show perma, but then my guns rarely need to run all the time. Yes my tank isnt as great as a nightmare with X-tpe but most missions give me enough time to kill of rats and tank the often miniscule return dps. Its just the missions with lots of enemies at close range that kinda suck. Or gallente dempers :S why have tachyons when you can only lock a few clicks, but that prob also hits the Nightmare. I guess its even, but the Pally has a better chance of getting even or better due to easier time to get the tracking comops in ^^. Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself. Better to die with honor, than to live in shame.
comrade captain Aliastra	Posted - 2009.01.13 14:29:00 - [51] another benefit of the nightmare is you can very easily fit 4 heat sinks
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.13 15:33:00 - [52] Edited by: Zeba on 13/01/2009 15:35:18 Originally by: comrade captain another benefit of the nightmare is you can very easily fit 4 heat sinks Plus with amarr bs 5 and a tracking enhancer II in the last low you get better tracking and optimal range than a pally with two tracking computers however you setup the scripts.
Madla Mafia Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.13 16:27:00 - [53] Originally by: fuxinos Paladin all the way. Permarunning armortank, with 2 Tracking Computers better range/tracking then Nightmare, looting while shooting, same Damage as Nightmare, 200Mil less cost and the big bonus of pure sexyness. Paladin > Nightmare in sexyness?!? I don't think so!!! ------------------------------------------ Amarr - getting screwed since 2005.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.13 22:38:00 - [54] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: fuxinos Paladin can easily do anything a Nightmare can and a bit more... Nightmare: 7.5 % tracking (amarr bs), 5% damage (caldari bs) and that flat 100% damage Paladin: 5% capacitor, 10% web from amarr BS, 7.5% repair and 5% damage from marauder, and then that flat 100% damage and 100% tractor bonus. And a bit better resists also ofc as it's afterall T2 ship. So Nightmare has better tracking while Paladin has better armor tank, web bonus and tractor beams. Nightmare is also usually used as shield tank while Paladin armor tanks. I have no doubt that you can run missions in paladin quite well. Reason why I stated however that if skills are not an issue is, that it's slot layout is better for PvE and tracking bonus will help more than those new webs when max skilled for the ship. it is rather easy to fit some tracking comps on a paladin though, was running 1 tc 1 web ( miss the 15km 99% domi web), might be worth it to try 2 tcs. Originally by: Helen I really need to fraps missions in a Paladin and a Nightmare to compare results. Might finally settle the dispute over which is best. Then again its still something people can argue over as some like to loot in a mission and others don't.... meh, just save the logs and look at them instead, way less hard drive space wasted when flying the paladin I like to at least cherry pick the bs wrecks in a 45ish km ball around me.
Layla Ashley Amarr Children of Avalon Avateas Blessed	Posted - 2009.01.13 23:32:00 - [55] the main different between Nightmare and Paladin is .... the look! otherwise (with proper fitting) their difference in missions is probably to small to even notice. The advantage of the paladin is, you can salvage better, if you desire to do so. However, on the other hand, it has a really tight fitting. You will end up using fitting implants if you want to use officer/deadspace items. In general, when deciding for which one to go, either use the one you think is looking better or the one you got better skills for.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.01.14 00:31:00 - [56] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton it is rather easy to fit some tracking comps on a paladin though, was running 1 tc 1 web ( miss the 15km 99% domi web), might be worth it to try 2 tcs. Not too hard on the Nightmare either. I usually have a TC, and either one or two TE's. Which means, according to EFT graphs, MF remains the best crystal out to 55km. Which is nice.
Jennz	Posted - 2009.01.14 00:57:00 - [57] I can't fit a 4th heatsink without dropping either my PDS or TE, neither of which I really want to lose if I can help it.
Calypso Rose	Posted - 2009.01.14 01:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Zeba Plus with amarr bs 5 and a tracking enhancer II in the last low you get better tracking and optimal range than a pally with two tracking computers however you setup the scripts. Nightmare with TE II and Tach II = tracking of .02751 Paladin with 2 TC II w/ tracking scripts and Tach II = tracking of .02994
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.14 02:00:00 - [59] Originally by: Calypso Rose Originally by: Zeba Plus with amarr bs 5 and a tracking enhancer II in the last low you get better tracking and optimal range than a pally with two tracking computers however you setup the scripts. Nightmare with TE II and Tach II = tracking of .02751 Paladin with 2 TC II w/ tracking scripts and Tach II = tracking of .02994 kk. Still its too small to make any real comparetive difference plus you gimped your optimal with the tracking scripts and also what would it be with 2 teII? inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Layla Ashley Amarr Children of Avalon Avateas Blessed	Posted - 2009.01.14 11:19:00 - [60] why is your optimal gimped with tracing scripts? you only need tracing scripts if the enemy is close to you. if it is far you simply switch to range scripts, as you don't need much tracing anyway
Reiisha Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence	Posted - 2009.01.14 11:42:00 - [61] Use Paladin if you want to armor tank. Use Nightmare if you want to shield tank. They are far too similar to make a choice based on performance, as they are much much closer than people try to make it look. Swings and roundabouts, really. The Paladin can loot and salvage while missioning and can pretty much perma-run everything, the Nightmare has a slightly stronger tank and dps due to the tracking, but is much harder to fit properly. I would say that the Paladin is somewhat easier to use, though. It doesn't require as much cap management as the Nightmare does. I can frequently aggro an entire stage, set loose the drones, and come back after half an hour to see the result in my Pally :)
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.14 12:27:00 - [62] I could fly both right now - tho my shield tanking skills are way lower than the Armor tanking ones... I tend to think that the average NM fit produces slightly moar DPS than the average Pally, tho that won't matter that much, as things tend to melt under the great alpha strike of those Tachys that amplify the "paper" dps show on simulators like EFT... Should the Alpha strike difference be that big so that the pally would require 5 salvos instead of 4 for each BS, could turn the scales heavily on the other side. But it doesn't seem likely to me. What seems likely to me, is the average NM costing more than the average Paladin - ppl go fetish around the pirate BS and spend huge amounts of money in order to make it more cap stable etc, while the pally can achieve comparable DPS and tank (in both ways usually over-tank) with greater cap stability using faction modules there where the NH would require deadspace ones... Should there be no suicide ganking, I wouldn't care: a pro mission player can usually afford building such a fit...but losing it hurts nomatter how rich you are...I would always prefer having a second pally around (or in my wallet) instead of an "uber expensive" NH, despite teh fetish
Jennz	Posted - 2009.01.14 13:18:00 - [63] Originally by: Reiisha I would say that the Paladin is somewhat easier to use, though. It doesn't require as much cap management as the Nightmare does. I can frequently aggro an entire stage, set loose the drones, and come back after half an hour to see the result in my Pally :) Sorry to nitpick but if you've got that attitude to running missions wouldn't a Dominix be better suited? Or if you can be bothered to be slightly at-the-keyboard the obvious park-it-in-middle-of-room-and-fire-in-all-directions CNR? People who talk about permatanking Nightmare/Paladin, or talk about AFK'ing in it miss the point entirely imo and shouldn't be flying one. Assuming you're using Tachys (and anyone who doesn't - see my previous statement) you still have to be mindful of prioritising targets - NM/Paladin instapops frigates & destroyers, but not if you let them orbit you.
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.01.14 13:22:00 - [64] Originally by: Jennz Originally by: Reiisha I would say that the Paladin is somewhat easier to use, though. It doesn't require as much cap management as the Nightmare does. I can frequently aggro an entire stage, set loose the drones, and come back after half an hour to see the result in my Pally :) Sorry to nitpick but if you've got that attitude to running missions wouldn't a Dominix be better suited? Or if you can be bothered to be slightly at-the-keyboard the obvious park-it-in-middle-of-room-and-fire-in-all-directions CNR? People who talk about permatanking Nightmare/Paladin, or talk about AFK'ing in it miss the point entirely imo and shouldn't be flying one. Assuming you're using Tachys (and anyone who doesn't - see my previous statement) you still have to be mindful of prioritising targets - NM/Paladin instapops frigates & destroyers, but not if you let them orbit you. This; precisely.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.14 14:19:00 - [65] To choose between Nightmare or Paladin: Decide whether you would rather put SP into Marauders or Caldari Battleship.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:11:00 - [66] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Helen I really need to fraps missions in a Paladin and a Nightmare to compare results. Might finally settle the dispute over which is best. Then again its still something people can argue over as some like to loot in a mission and others don't.... meh, just save the logs and look at them instead, way less hard drive space wasted To be honest logs don't show how a mission was run which is what some people will comment on with regards to the running speed of both ships. With fraps at least people can only argue over setups rather than your tactics to running the mission. Besides what the hell else do I use all this harddrive space for.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:46:00 - [67] Originally by: Helen Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Helen I really need to fraps missions in a Paladin and a Nightmare to compare results. Might finally settle the dispute over which is best. Then again its still something people can argue over as some like to loot in a mission and others don't.... meh, just save the logs and look at them instead, way less hard drive space wasted To be honest logs don't show how a mission was run which is what some people will comment on with regards to the running speed of both ships. With fraps at least people can only argue over setups rather than your tactics to running the mission. Besides what the hell else do I use all this harddrive space for. there are tactics other than: launch drones, ctrl+click, ctrl+click, f1-f4, etc...?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:01:00 - [68] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton it is rather easy to fit some tracking comps on a paladin though, was running 1 tc 1 web ( miss the 15km 99% domi web), might be worth it to try 2 tcs. Not too hard on the Nightmare either. I usually have a TC, and either one or two TE's. Which means, according to EFT graphs, MF remains the best crystal out to 55km. Which is nice. indeed, all rats ending up in mf range is <3 although I haven't come up with a nightmare setup where I can free up 3 slots like that. although I would probably go 2 te, 1 after burner.
Flavius Belisarios	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:13:00 - [69] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton indeed, all rats ending up in mf range is <3 although I haven't come up with a nightmare setup where I can free up 3 slots like that. although I would probably go 2 te, 1 after burner. Don't usually need an AB unless you're in a mission with multiple gates more than 20-30km apart. You should try a cap-boosted setup some time, unless you go the Gist Booster route, they're superior to the CR2 setups.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:28:00 - [70] Originally by: Flavius Belisarios Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton indeed, all rats ending up in mf range is <3 although I haven't come up with a nightmare setup where I can free up 3 slots like that. although I would probably go 2 te, 1 after burner. Don't usually need an AB unless you're in a mission with multiple gates more than 20-30km apart. You should try a cap-boosted setup some time, unless you go the Gist Booster route, they're superior to the CR2 setups. well luckily my paladin doesn't need a cap booster, and well I am quite against using a cap booster in a mission. and the afterburner was for a free slot. and there are a few missions with spread out gates, so it is nice to have.
Jennz	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:40:00 - [71] With the QR speed changes I've found an AB to be virtually essential - the difference between going 117.5m/s and 350+ makes a perceptible difference to me. Different strokes for different folks though I guess.
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.01.15 04:44:00 - [72] Originally by: Jennz With the QR speed changes I've found an AB to be virtually essential - the difference between going 117.5m/s and 350+ makes a perceptible difference to me. Different strokes for different folks though I guess. What for? I find I rarely need to mitigate transversal by actually flying in my 'mare. The only times I need an AB are on those missions where you must fly 50km to a gate, (and I only accept those if I'm running the mish to build someone's standing up, either in my corp or an alt). My targetting strategy is as follows: 1) Any Ewar ship, from smallest to largest 2) Cruisers, 3) Battlecruisers, 4) Battleships. Drones take care of standard, (nonscrambling) frigs. If you target the smallest ships first you can pop them before they get to orbits and battleships should never be a problem for nightmare tracking.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 05:12:00 - [73] Originally by: Petyr Baelich Originally by: Jennz With the QR speed changes I've found an AB to be virtually essential - the difference between going 117.5m/s and 350+ makes a perceptible difference to me. Different strokes for different folks though I guess. What for? I find I rarely need to mitigate transversal by actually flying in my 'mare. The only times I need an AB are on those missions where you must fly 50km to a gate, (and I only accept those if I'm running the mish to build someone's standing up, either in my corp or an alt). My targetting strategy is as follows: 1) Any Ewar ship, from smallest to largest 2) Cruisers, 3) Battlecruisers, 4) Battleships. Drones take care of standard, (nonscrambling) frigs. If you target the smallest ships first you can pop them before they get to orbits and battleships should never be a problem for nightmare tracking. pretty sure he just means the gate to gate part
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.01.15 07:29:00 - [74] Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 15/01/2009 07:34:45 edited for typos I don't see why someone would prefer a Nightmare over a Paladin 1) For Sansha/Blood the Paladin does better due to inate armor resistences. 2) For Serpentis/ Mercenaries they are equal but the Paladin is more cap stable 3) For Guristas they both suck 4) For angels Nightmare is better in defence "peak" but it's cap instabilty means that in the end of the day that defence "peak" can't be maintained for long enough unless you kill its dps for cap stabiltiy by puting more flux coils or PDU to the lows and removing heat sinks. 5) For close range missions in general the Paladin is better due to the fact that the web bonus gives you more comfort. I remember the other day that i managed to kill close orbiting spider drones with just mega pulses. It is good to know that even without your drones you can deal with the little things. 6) For long range missions if you would like to mount tachyons II and AB then the Nightmare could be better since it's the only one who can. But apart that tiny fraction of mission types were someone would like to fit Tachyons and AB i can't see any other mission type were a Nightmare would be more viable to a Paladin
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.15 09:04:00 - [75] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton there are tactics other than: launch drones, ctrl+click, ctrl+click, f1-f4, etc...? You don't always need to kill everything in a mission to complete it. Thing is its pointless arguing over this really they are both good ships just depends on where you run your missions. As a side note Worlds Collide can be run in less <5min in 0.0. As for you Zaran have you even flown a Nightmare? Cap fluxs are for noob raven pilots, if your fitting them to a Nightmare your insane or trying to achieve a permatank which is also insane.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.15 09:06:00 - [76] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Petyr Baelich Originally by: Jennz With the QR speed changes I've found an AB to be virtually essential - the difference between going 117.5m/s and 350+ makes a perceptible difference to me. Different strokes for different folks though I guess. What for? I find I rarely need to mitigate transversal by actually flying in my 'mare. The only times I need an AB are on those missions where you must fly 50km to a gate, (and I only accept those if I'm running the mish to build someone's standing up, either in my corp or an alt). My targetting strategy is as follows: 1) Any Ewar ship, from smallest to largest 2) Cruisers, 3) Battlecruisers, 4) Battleships. Drones take care of standard, (nonscrambling) frigs. If you target the smallest ships first you can pop them before they get to orbits and battleships should never be a problem for nightmare tracking. pretty sure he just means the gate to gate part Depends where you run missions in 0.0 a AB is essential for getting away from warp in points if someone is trying to scan you down.
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.01.15 09:43:00 - [77] Originally by: Helen As for you Zaran have you even flown a Nightmare? Cap fluxs are for noob raven pilots, if your fitting them to a Nightmare your insane or trying to achieve a permatank which is also insane. I usually avoid flux coils, i just gave them as example. I also never use totally cap stable setups. I don't say that the Nightmare is a bad ship I just say that the Paladin is better or equal in all missions. The only mission type that the Nightmar could be considered slightly tiny better would be certain Angel missions like recon 1/3 but for these type of missions one would be even better with Maelstorm or Raven.
Sanzorz Amarr Mark Of Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:32:00 - [78] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar I usually avoid flux coils, i just gave them as example. I also never use totally cap stable setups. I don't say that the Nightmare is a bad ship I just say that the Paladin is better or equal in all missions. The only mission type that the Nightmar could be considered slightly tiny better would be certain Angel missions like recon 1/3 but for these type of missions one would be even better with Maelstorm or Raven. Paladin is pretty much just an option for a lower skilled pilot, because overall armor tanking require less cap consumed. It's also a better option in tanking, when doing missions in amarr because of EM vs armor. That said it dosen't mean Nightmare have problems here. I use a cap stable tanking fit with only 4 tanking items and I have 3 heatsinks. Pretty much all missions I've tried in Amarr space I can mass aggro and hold without a problem. It's also terrible to say Nightmare is worse for tanking, because in most missions you munch down so many rats so fast that you barely have to use a shield booster.
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:35:00 - [79] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar The only mission type that the Nightmar could be considered slightly tiny better would be certain Angel missions like recon 1/3 but for these type of missions one would be even better with Maelstorm or Raven. Why the hell would you run recon missions in a BS? Its immensely quicker to jump into a HAC/CBC and run it fast.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:32:00 - [80] Originally by: Helen Originally by: Zaran Darkstar The only mission type that the Nightmar could be considered slightly tiny better would be certain Angel missions like recon 1/3 but for these type of missions one would be even better with Maelstorm or Raven. Why the hell would you run recon missions in a BS? Its immensely quicker to jump into a HAC/CBC and run it fast. Recon part 1 usually features 10 or so 1 mill bounty battleships. And its a small area :)
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:54:00 - [81] Originally by: Hyveres Originally by: Helen Originally by: Zaran Darkstar The only mission type that the Nightmar could be considered slightly tiny better would be certain Angel missions like recon 1/3 but for these type of missions one would be even better with Maelstorm or Raven. Why the hell would you run recon missions in a BS? Its immensely quicker to jump into a HAC/CBC and run it fast. Recon part 1 usually features 10 or so 1 mill bounty battleships. And its a small area :) See this is where problems are because in empire its nice and safe to hang about and get bounties, in 0.0 I'd rather speed run recon missions/worlds collide for LP as its less risky and more productive for my time.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.01.15 16:49:00 - [82] If you want to run Recon series fast you use an inty for 1 and 2, and a cruiser/hac for 3. As far as missions go, I can't think of anything a CBC would be good for. (Good=better then something else)
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:42:00 - [83] Originally by: Helen See this is where problems are because in empire its nice and safe to hang about and get bounties, in 0.0 I'd rather speed run recon missions/worlds collide for LP as its less risky and more productive for my time. If you see 00 only good for ratting you are missing a great part of the profit potential of 00 like moonmining , mercoxite mining, manufacturing and trading,complex farming, even runing missions for certain pirate factions. Despite that ratting can be very profitable if you chain the belts or if you get the occasional officer spawn that might get you some pirate faction BS bpc or the so called "carrier spawn" were you can receive several millions of minerals.
Leandro Salazar Better Dead Then Smeg	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:24:00 - [84] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 15/01/2009 19:23:57 Funny to see three pages of arguments when the question was already thoroughly answered in the first reply... And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:30:00 - [85] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 15/01/2009 19:23:57 Funny to see three pages of arguments when the question was already thoroughly answered in the first reply... Yes but they both perform so closely that we can argue endlessly for those 'hah maybe its not teh absolute best for that but its obviously better for this!' type infinity discussions everyone so loves. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Helen The Tetragrammaton Council	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:57:00 - [86] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Originally by: Helen See this is where problems are because in empire its nice and safe to hang about and get bounties, in 0.0 I'd rather speed run recon missions/worlds collide for LP as its less risky and more productive for my time. If you see 00 only good for ratting you are missing a great part of the profit potential of 00 like moonmining , mercoxite mining, manufacturing and trading,complex farming, even runing missions for certain pirate factions. Despite that ratting can be very profitable if you chain the belts or if you get the occasional officer spawn that might get you some pirate faction BS bpc or the so called "carrier spawn" were you can receive several millions of minerals. I've played EvE for 6 years this year I think I know about 0.0 thanks. In case you missed my angle on this debate in this thread I'm talking from the viewpoint of running missions for pirate factions in 0.0.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 23:10:00 - [87] damn you helen and your 0.0ness! (in game) and I haven't gone for cap stability on a nightmare or paladin setup. 4m 44s on my paladin with my skills in eft. 5m 20s with all 5. on the nightmare I get 3 mins or stable at 40ish%
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 23:11:00 - [88] did I mention I have connection issues?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.15 23:13:00 - [89] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton did I mention I have connection issues? Which is why we forgive you for pursuing the fabled cap stable nightmare/paladin fit.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 23:20:00 - [90] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton did I mention I have connection issues? Which is why we forgive you for pursuing the fabled cap stable nightmare/paladin fit. read my above above post I just like to be able to run my tank forever, stable at 68% just rep running, 60% just guns, and well 4m 44s with it all going. that way when I do drop my stuff runs for the next 2 mins, and well didn't lose it yet. my raven alt though does permatank, and I even managed to fit 4 bcus on so w/e (now in a golem )

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