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MAX MEXX	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:19:00 - [1] Would be nice to have some info here. Motherships now are almost useless. -A carrier can do the same thing for 1/15 of the price + can be insured -A titan can(at double the cost) instantly vaporize fleet's within 15 seconds then get out. ( A mom need's at lest 30 sec to kill a BS )(takes over two min if the BS has a mwd active) -With the "new" hictor's they have a much bigger chance to get tackled. -Dictors are still here, nothing really bad about them. -The web nerf hit them hard, since fighters don't hit mwd'ing battleships wheel, and the max range web is now 20k(hakims web) Suggestions? moms more armor/shield, them web range bonus Hic's cant "point" them, only bubble? Ofc. they are just ideas i come upp with while writing this.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:31:00 - [2] Originally by: MAX MEXX Motherships now are almost useless. Confirmed FIRST!
Grek Forto 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:33:00 - [3] Capital ships are over-rated.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:33:00 - [4] Ms are pretty much useless, but not for the reasons you think of.
Nicholas Barker Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:34:00 - [5] Originally by: MAX MEXX Hic's cant "point" them, only bubble? weeeey, lowsec smart bombing at it's best
MAX MEXX	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Batolemaeus Ms are pretty much useless, but not for the reasons you think of. Please enlighten me :)
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:37:00 - [7] Originally by: Nicholas Barker Originally by: MAX MEXX Hic's cant "point" them, only bubble? weeeey, lowsec smart bombing at it's best welcome to pre-HIC
Frug Repo Industries	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:38:00 - [8] Originally by: Nicholas Barker Originally by: MAX MEXX Hic's cant "point" them, only bubble? weeeey, lowsec smart bombing at it's best Heheh. Maybe the reverse would be better?
MAX MEXX	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Nicholas Barker Originally by: MAX MEXX Hic's cant "point" them, only bubble? weeeey, lowsec smart bombing at it's best Heheh. Maybe the reverse would be better? Oo i can see this was a stupid idea now he he, Any ideas what can be done to buff motherships again then?
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:56:00 - [10] Originally by: Batolemaeus Ms are pretty much useless, but not for the reasons you think of. Share the knowledge duuude! I would've thought the same as the OP.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.11 18:58:00 - [11] Welcome to the EVE basic premises : generally, a rough 5% increase in performance comes at a rough x10 increase in price for similar items.
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.11 19:02:00 - [12] The only thing motherships need is the same jump range than carriers.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.11 19:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Shadowsword The only thing motherships need is the same jump range than carriers. This. But Motherships really really really need a role. At the moment a carrier can do their role for much cheaper, minus jump clone ability that no one really uses and the ECM burst ability that no one uses. Been said a million times before, but I would love to make them act as outposts for mobile corporations or alliances. Docking lots of ships, clones (and jump entire corp places with them inside), insurance and bounty office etc. Probably make them all subsystems that can be killed like the outpost, and have to setup first to enter this mode (or just make triage mode free and have it do this).
Yalezorn Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 19:59:00 - [14] Originally by: MAX MEXX Would be nice to have some info here. Motherships now are almost useless. -A carrier can do the same thing for 1/15 of the price + can be insured -A titan can(at double the cost) instantly vaporize fleet's within 15 seconds then get out. ( A mom need's at lest 30 sec to kill a BS )(takes over two min if the BS has a mwd active) While MS can do 15 times what a carrier can do. Titans can vaporize a fleet, then sit there for 10 minutes hoping the fleet wasn't the REAL fleet's DD sacrifice. Motherships don't kill things. They support the things that kill things.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:00:00 - [15] Originally by: MAX MEXX Motherships now are almost useless. Good. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:02:00 - [16] They aren't useless, they are epeen enlargements for people with too much isk right ?
MAX MEXX	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Yalezorn Originally by: MAX MEXX Would be nice to have some info here. Motherships now are almost useless. -A carrier can do the same thing for 1/15 of the price + can be insured -A titan can(at double the cost) instantly vaporize fleet's within 15 seconds then get out. ( A mom need's at lest 30 sec to kill a BS )(takes over two min if the BS has a mwd active) While MS can do 15 times what a carrier can do. Titans can vaporize a fleet, then sit there for 10 minutes hoping the fleet wasn't the REAL fleet's DD sacrifice. Motherships don't kill things. They support the things that kill things. Titans fire a DD, then warp away withing 18-20 seconds... Motherships does nothing a carrier can't to, but just 18 times more expencive
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:07:00 - [18] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Shadowsword The only thing motherships need is the same jump range than carriers. This. But Motherships really really really need a role. At the moment a carrier can do their role for much cheaper, minus jump clone ability that no one really uses and the ECM burst ability that no one uses. Been said a million times before, but I would love to make them act as outposts for mobile corporations or alliances. Docking lots of ships, clones (and jump entire corp places with them inside), insurance and bounty office etc. Probably make them all subsystems that can be killed like the outpost, and have to setup first to enter this mode (or just make triage mode free and have it do this). This. Would. Be. AwsomeSauce. It would be similar to a Black Ops jumping in with a bunch of Recons in Tow...only a much larger attack force. Karrade-Confirming all pirate babies come from me Surfin's PlunderBunny-I always knew you were a woman Karrade-I am a man of many talents.
Lt Shard Shoot To Thrill Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:07:00 - [19] Moms are broken, there just being used for giant e-peens. They should be used for jumping in fleets. I.e. Have a clone bay and a Hangar full of ships. Jump into battle and have your fleet clone jump into the mom and bring out one of those ships. THAT is the role of the mothership.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:11:00 - [20] Okay, enlightenment starting (kidding). Guess how much different a carrier is vs. a ms in a capital fight. Yup, about 10 seconds, maybe less. People usually suddenly remember how to focus fire when a ms appears.. 10 seconds greater survivability, worth several billions? No, not really. Fights in Eve scale horribly, and MS are a victim of growing capital numbers in conflicts. ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:16:00 - [21] Edited by: Grimpak on 11/01/2009 20:16:29 Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Shadowsword The only thing motherships need is the same jump range than carriers. This. But Motherships really really really need a role. At the moment a carrier can do their role for much cheaper, minus jump clone ability that no one really uses and the ECM burst ability that no one uses. Been said a million times before, but I would love to make them act as outposts for mobile corporations or alliances. Docking lots of ships, clones (and jump entire corp places with them inside), insurance and bounty office etc. Probably make them all subsystems that can be killed like the outpost, and have to setup first to enter this mode (or just make triage mode free and have it do this). This. Would. Be. AwsomeSauce. It would be similar to a Black Ops jumping in with a bunch of Recons in Tow...only a much larger attack force. good stuff, but I would also add more hislots (all moms should have 8 hislots ffs), 2/3 gunslots and dmg bonuses to them XL guns. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
UGWidowmaker Caldari freelancers inc KenZoku	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:31:00 - [22] i fully agree moms should be able to jump fleets... and have similar jump range than a dreadnaught. then it would be a nice USEFULL ship... OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
iudex Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:41:00 - [23] Totally agree, motherships are currently pretty useless and desperately need something that makes them usefull. When they were immune to tackling, i sold some ME:0 BPCs for 2 billion. Today i get less than 300 million for a ME:1 Aeon BPC. This says it all, noone wants to buy motherships anymore .
Commander Predator Apeshit Assassins	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:44:00 - [24] Edited by: Commander Predator on 11/01/2009 20:45:01 would be awesome if moms could jump whole fleets in, but they would need some sort of limit to how many ships or m3 of ships canfit, maybe not make it like a station, maybe just somehow the ships attach to it and can jump a certain amount of ships around, jump in, release, jump out, grab more, or just get multiple moms, jump in release and fight. would make 0.0 warfare a bit more interesting. and the more moms one alliance has the better, make more big targets or objectives during war.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 11/01/2009 20:16:29 Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Shadowsword The only thing motherships need is the same jump range than carriers. This. But Motherships really really really need a role. At the moment a carrier can do their role for much cheaper, minus jump clone ability that no one really uses and the ECM burst ability that no one uses. Been said a million times before, but I would love to make them act as outposts for mobile corporations or alliances. Docking lots of ships, clones (and jump entire corp places with them inside), insurance and bounty office etc. Probably make them all subsystems that can be killed like the outpost, and have to setup first to enter this mode (or just make triage mode free and have it do this). This. Would. Be. AwsomeSauce. It would be similar to a Black Ops jumping in with a bunch of Recons in Tow...only a much larger attack force. good stuff, but I would also add more hislots (all moms should have 8 hislots ffs), 2/3 gunslots and dmg bonuses to them XL guns. Would rather have when you setup, you stay in space and can deploy sentries which stay connected when you logout. Will require your alliance/corp to defend your ass but you can effectively act as an outpost.
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.11 20:45:00 - [26] Give moms tractor beams that pull ships toward it at a set m/s, then we could pretend Eve is starwars and be happy.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:34:00 - [27] Truth is they lack 'something', but when I asked the dev panel at fanfest they said they weren't planning on anything for supercaps. Of course I have a few suggestions of my own: - Increase motherships HP 3-5 fold and give them an inherent 10-fold bonus to shield boost / rep amount. Make them frontline behemoths, capable of tanking a substantial number of dreadnoughts while keeping them vulnerable to hictors, dictors and neuting. - Increase the effectiveness of the remote ECM Titans will still be a class apart due to their doomsday ability but even they deserve some loving. - Same as for motherships, give them increased HP and tank abilities - Otherwise, titans are fine IMO. Expensive tools with powerful destructive potential Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:38:00 - [28] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=689149&page=1#1 Also, that ;) Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
Kayl Breinhar Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:50:00 - [29] Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 11/01/2009 21:51:36 It's not our fault you bought a capital-sized coffin that you can now never leave and are having buyer's remorse about it. That's what you get for flying a supercapital. Sorry that your MS isn't an invincible lowsec **** machine anymore, but that's not CCP's fault, it's the fault of everyone who used MS to camp gates before you wanted to. Also - MS can't do anything a carrier can do? WTB Thanatos that can fit a Remote ECM Burst TIA.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:58:00 - [30] Give motherships a module that renders them invulnerable for 10 minutes with an hour-long cooldown timer. MOMs would be able to stay on the field in massive fleet fights and be awesome logistics ships, while still being killable in smaller engagements.
Sensor Ghost	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Give moms tractor beams that pull ships toward it at a set m/s, then we could pretend Eve is starwars and be happy. I just came in my pants. That would be freakin awesome!
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:08:00 - [32] Originally by: Kayl Breinhar Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 11/01/2009 21:51:36 It's not our fault you bought a capital-sized coffin that you can now never leave and are having buyer's remorse about it. That's what you get for flying a supercapital. Sorry that your MS isn't an invincible lowsec **** machine anymore, but that's not CCP's fault, it's the fault of everyone who used MS to camp gates before you wanted to. Also - MS can't do anything a carrier can do? WTB Thanatos that can fit a Remote ECM Burst TIA. This. Motherships are quite good. Being immune to ewar, having double dps from more fighters, +1 high slot, and having +1 mid or low slot isn't enough? Remote ECM burst and triage could use some love, but the MS hulls themself are fantastic and if you don't like it then don't fly it. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Epegi Givo Amarr Da People	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:54:00 - [33] what about making it something like a super-command ship? as in make it able to fit tons of gang-assist modules and give it a bonus to make those modules incredibly powerful. and give it stronger hp and repping power so it can actually survive a few hits. ------------------------------------- Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: Epegi Givo This is my sig, or is it? Now the only thing I can think of are Yard Gnome Ninjas...
SniperWo1f Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:30:00 - [34] with carrier 5 you can run six gang assist mods at the same time but youll be pos hidding the whole time with no defence ( such as it is) in your highs.
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:40:00 - [35] When Motherships were introduced capital battles in the 400 to 500 ship area were unheard of. Now it's common place. But because games are made to be nerfed, updating to address these sorts of changes in combat never happen. If a loophole was found in motherships where it became an I-Win button, the devs would make it priority one to nerf it into oblivion. That's not the case. Keep it close to the POS bubble and taunt for primary.
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:47:00 - [36] Originally by: SniperWo1f with carrier 5 you can run six gang assist mods at the same time but youll be pos hidding the whole time with no defence ( such as it is) in your highs. Ive rarely seen carriers away from a POS in any sort of real engagement, so really no change. I agree Moms need a boost. People should be like "AH! A mothership! (excited tone)" not "Oh... a mothership... (mixture of apathy and melancholy)"
Anglo Minmatar Astral Mexicans	Posted - 2009.01.12 06:04:00 - [37] its quite simple. when u pay 17 bill+ for a mothership u would espect more than a carier with 5 drones more... its silly atm.. moms are crap.. and the sooner ccp makes em a propper role i doubt they will be of much use. ps someone mentioned they have much more damage to the fighters i might add thats this is only the nyx doing so.. hench all want nyx and they can still sell a litle while anything else is even rarely flown cause they SUCK! as minimum they should ALL do double fighter damage. but the mom should also a more fleet orientated role. like all of the above mentioend roles. they all seem nice.. what about making it posible to anchor the ship and when in anchored mode, it works like a mini station. hell even where u can add t3 modules on em.. with various purpose. ALL Combat related NOT a refinery or some **** like that! but maybe a fighter controle so that when the pilot is offline other corpies could use the fighters. 5 controles pr member. just like they can controle pos guns ? hmmm dont know but atm the mothership in all classes suck..
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.01.12 06:31:00 - [38] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 12/01/2009 06:31:09 Originally by: Epegi Givo what about making it something like a super-command ship? as in make it able to fit tons of gang-assist modules and give it a bonus to make those modules incredibly powerful. and give it stronger hp and repping power so it can actually survive a few hits. more gang bonuses than a commandship...? i dunno... i tend to think of the damnation as overpowered in that departement already. combinations with command processors are already being used in "every" >100 fleet with 4-5x +15%//+25.2% - i'd describe that as "modules incredibly powerful" so, sry, that part is filled oh and huh? an MS can't survive a few hits...? - putting the gist back into logistics
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:01:00 - [39] The "mobile outpost" role is an improvement that should apply to titans. As for moving fleets, the titan already performs this role for any real engagement. Titan bridges are a much easier solution for when you need to cyno in a subcapital fleet and you get the DDD as an extra bonus. I do agree mom's need love but I would much prefer the massive hp/rep amount boost as that would give them something akin to the respect they deserve. A Mom should be the last ship alive on the battlefield, trapped but not defeated, until its support fleet is gone and the opposing forces have time to chew through its tank. Currently moms are just called primary because they don't take all that much longer to kill and they are a much more impressive kill / expensive loss.
Spike 68 Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:38:00 - [40] Edited by: Spike 68 on 12/01/2009 07:39:40 Being immune to electronic warfare, clone bays and having the remote ecm burst are really nice things that carriers cannot do. Motherships are also great POS support and expensive enough to load out with officer/deadspace gear and the modules not cost insanely more than the ship, if you want to that is. Lastly EVE is basically a giant, watered down, internet spaceship war simulator so who cares if its cost effective.
Ozstar Naughty 40	Posted - 2009.01.12 11:44:00 - [41] If it upsets the then CCP won't introduce it. $$$ before
Confuzer Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.01.12 12:00:00 - [42] Indeed they are totally useless! 5 bil? ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved.
Jiere LaFortune Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.01.12 12:06:00 - [43] Originally by: Ozstar If it upsets the then CCP won't introduce it. $$$ before Do players actually believe they care what we want?
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.12 12:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Ozstar If it upsets the then CCP won't introduce it. Huh? What kind of would be upset by changes to a low/nullsec combat ship? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Vyktor Abyss IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.12 12:19:00 - [45] As I believe it should be: Titan is the flagship killing machine of the largest and richest corps and alliances. Mothership is the flagship mobile HQ for the largest and richest corps and alliances. Motherships should be for defense and logistics. Making its clonebay bigger and ship hangars much larger to effectively allow a sizable force to jump into clones and reship from the motherships would be awesome. As stated in an earlier post this would allow more "mobile" alliances, especially if they could jump decent ranges and all of 0.0 wasn't cynojammed. Perhaps have a new resupply ship to transport clones from stations and outposts to Motherships - add factory ships, science ships too so in effect a large alliance could have all the facilities of Outposts, but mobile (and killable). As is though I tend to agree with the wise Goonfleet member: You bought a Capital-Sized coffin. It is also unfair in my opinion that MS can't be docked or anchored securely (without some hopeful pod pilot coming along to hop in and nick it) in some way by the owner so they can switch to another ship for a change.
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.12 15:15:00 - [46] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss As I believe it should be: Titan is the flagship killing machine of the largest and richest corps and alliances. Mothership is the flagship mobile HQ for the largest and richest corps and alliances. Motherships should be for defense and logistics. Making its clonebay bigger and ship hangars much larger to effectively allow a sizable force to jump into clones and reship from the motherships would be awesome. As stated in an earlier post this would allow more "mobile" alliances, especially if they could jump decent ranges and all of 0.0 wasn't cynojammed. Perhaps have a new resupply ship to transport clones from stations and outposts to Motherships - add factory ships, science ships too so in effect a large alliance could have all the facilities of Outposts, but mobile (and killable). As is though I tend to agree with the wise Goonfleet member: You bought a Capital-Sized coffin. It is also unfair in my opinion that MS can't be docked or anchored securely (without some hopeful pod pilot coming along to hop in and nick it) in some way by the owner so they can switch to another ship for a change. The battlestar galacticaesque image of a nomad alliance with a self sufficient fleet is pretty amazing and I'd love to see it happen, but due to the nature of the game it'll never happen. CCP has said a few times that they have no idea what to do when it comes to these proposed "mobile outpost" ships when their pilots log off with other pilots inside them.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2009.01.12 15:34:00 - [47] Capital ships online. Seriously though, if capitals were stronger their direct offensive capabilities should be less. Make titans have mega-pos-cap-killing-cannon instead of super DD etc. doo-doo.
DjLowballer Amarr FLASHTROOPER CORP	Posted - 2009.01.12 16:02:00 - [48] I never understood the problem with an outpost ship. Leave it in space and let it be taken control by some other pilot. I am sure the alliances using them would be able to pull 6 hardcore, trusted, players to fly them all day. Even if nobody was on it could still sit there like an outpost. Please Vote DjLowballer as your delegate to the CSM!
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2009.01.12 17:43:00 - [49] I posted this in another thread, but here goes. How about a new high slot module, that makes motherships immune to Nos/Nuets, when activated. To avoid over powered spider tanking, make it so you cannot be remote repped when it's in use. But that said, I do believe they should all have a buff towards their tanking ability. Mag's Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.
ArsenalOfCharm Fifth Exiled Legion	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:22:00 - [50] buff fighters?
Ash Bringer	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:50:00 - [51] Edited by: Ash Bringer on 12/01/2009 19:51:32 Make it a mirror image of Titan. What titan crushed it can remake. Give it a super big war hangar that u can carry at least 10-15 maybe 30 fitted rigged BS.. (If u want to limit the number of ships it can carry make it volume+docking bay( as max 30docking bay with XXX mil m3)) Little bit damage for all is also a good idea. That will be more than enough if u ask me.. Then when u see a friendly MS you will say .. "here is my hero" But tbh I'm more interested in t3 :P
Dym Wastrell	Posted - 2009.01.12 20:06:00 - [52] Another margin that would be great for mom's would be scanning. Either a crazy buff to their on-board scanner or a (siege-type or otherwise) module that can do a system-wide scan. Let the results be dragged into corp hangar as a bookmark to send out the support. Given that, properly implemented, an MS in system could establish some real presence and control that not even a titan currently grants. It could serve as a information warfare platform in a true sense, and then its immunity to ewar is more compelling besides. Just a thought.
Kitana Muerte Rytiri Lva R.U.R.	Posted - 2009.01.12 20:50:00 - [53] make them vertical coz everyone loves it
ry ry	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:39:00 - [54] remove carriers from the game. problem solved.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:42:00 - [55] A mothership is still better than a carrier. More fighters, better tank. This alone justifies it's price, as the limiting factor in EVE is -always- number of pilots.

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