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TomB
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Posted - 2004.07.29 21:39:00 -
[211]
Please test these before complaining, accuracy was acting weirdly because of agility, velocities and other attributes used by the drones which do not reflect player ships in no means, these are getting into better shape and are acting nicely on Chaos at the moment.
The tests / tunes so far have been focused vs. players ships, if they are acting differently vs. NPC's, please post feedback on what NPCtype and how it was different.
PS: stasis web on target should work much better for increasing drone hits, was some weird bug encounter that should be fixed now.
2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything. |
TomB
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Posted - 2004.07.29 21:39:00 -
[212]
Please test these before complaining, accuracy was acting weirdly because of agility, velocities and other attributes used by the drones which do not reflect player ships in no means, these are getting into better shape and are acting nicely on Chaos at the moment.
The tests / tunes so far have been focused vs. players ships, if they are acting differently vs. NPC's, please post feedback on what NPCtype and how it was different.
PS: stasis web on target should work much better for increasing drone hits, was some weird bug encounter that should be fixed now.
2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything. |
YuuKnow
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Posted - 2004.07.29 22:44:00 -
[213]
It would be really nice to have the autotargeting system modules up and working to be able to target and kill these drone waves.
I mean, combat centered around waves of drones is basically a bunch of fast twitch right clicking (which isn't what Eve combat was supposed to be about right?)
Let get the old autotargeting module un-gimped. Trash the 10km range limit and make the limit = to ship targeting range and fix the max target bonus to +2 like its supposed to be. (maybe an option on the targetor to only autotarget drones?)
Just a suggestion.
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YuuKnow
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Posted - 2004.07.29 22:44:00 -
[214]
It would be really nice to have the autotargeting system modules up and working to be able to target and kill these drone waves.
I mean, combat centered around waves of drones is basically a bunch of fast twitch right clicking (which isn't what Eve combat was supposed to be about right?)
Let get the old autotargeting module un-gimped. Trash the 10km range limit and make the limit = to ship targeting range and fix the max target bonus to +2 like its supposed to be. (maybe an option on the targetor to only autotarget drones?)
Just a suggestion.
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.07.29 23:01:00 -
[215]
2 bugs tomB:
1) All drones have the samge signature resolution which is 25m on light, medium and heavy .... they WTFPWN anything now
probably a typo ...
2) they cant keep their optimal range even though they would be fast enough so a mwd atm is still the best module to "dodge" the drones since they are about 8km away if im moving about 1,7km/s (= incursus with 1x mwd)
light drones in this case hit quite good if I use only 1x 1mn AB, I actually had no chance at all on the other hand it was clawhammer flying a dom with 13 drones 
thx for clawhammer who tested them with me
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.07.29 23:01:00 -
[216]
2 bugs tomB:
1) All drones have the samge signature resolution which is 25m on light, medium and heavy .... they WTFPWN anything now
probably a typo ...
2) they cant keep their optimal range even though they would be fast enough so a mwd atm is still the best module to "dodge" the drones since they are about 8km away if im moving about 1,7km/s (= incursus with 1x mwd)
light drones in this case hit quite good if I use only 1x 1mn AB, I actually had no chance at all on the other hand it was clawhammer flying a dom with 13 drones
thx for clawhammer who tested them with me
Greetings Grim |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2004.07.30 00:36:00 -
[217]
As stated by Grim Vandal, heavy drones now indeed wtfpwn everything once again. They have no problems at all hitting frigates that don't use MWD because their tracking was increased too much.
I think the old tracking values were pretty good for heavy and medium drones. Light drones seam to track well enough now. I still think they could use another small damage increase but at least they work now.
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ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2004.07.30 00:36:00 -
[218]
As stated by Grim Vandal, heavy drones now indeed wtfpwn everything once again. They have no problems at all hitting frigates that don't use MWD because their tracking was increased too much.
I think the old tracking values were pretty good for heavy and medium drones. Light drones seam to track well enough now. I still think they could use another small damage increase but at least they work now.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.30 01:39:00 -
[219]
I think mediums should be able to hit a non mwding frigate but not a heavy. i dont think a medium should be able to hit a mwding frigate though. Only light drones should automatically hit frigates. 
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.30 01:39:00 -
[220]
I think mediums should be able to hit a non mwding frigate but not a heavy. i dont think a medium should be able to hit a mwding frigate though. Only light drones should automatically hit frigates.
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Vaco
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:22:00 -
[221]
TomB,
I would very much appreciate if you told me the reasoning behind the medium and large drones having a large sig, 75 and 150.
If I understand how the sig works, the large it is, the faster it is locked, and the easier it is to hit.
I dont care to argue about it, I am just wondering the reason behind your methods.
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Vaco
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:22:00 -
[222]
TomB,
I would very much appreciate if you told me the reasoning behind the medium and large drones having a large sig, 75 and 150.
If I understand how the sig works, the large it is, the faster it is locked, and the easier it is to hit.
I dont care to argue about it, I am just wondering the reason behind your methods.
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TomB
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Posted - 2004.07.30 12:07:00 -
[223]
Drones vs. Frigates:
Heavy drones have harder time hitting Interceptors and they can fight back, as a matter of fact it's easier for them to fight drones back now (sig radius changes), do not forget that.
Try a scenario of 2-4 Interceptors scrambling a battleship pilot, let the pilot launch ~10 heavy drones and tell me if the Interceptors pilots drop before they manage to scratch the drones.
Also if you are MWD'ing, the drones should manage to catch up (and you are a huge target for the battleship pilot), 1x stasis should also eliminate MWD'ing frigates.
Differing Sig Radius:
The bigger drones are more bad ass, can be very dangerous to cruiser pilots as well, they need to be able to fight them as well, cruiser turrets have worse accuracy.
2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything. |
TomB
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Posted - 2004.07.30 12:07:00 -
[224]
Drones vs. Frigates:
Heavy drones have harder time hitting Interceptors and they can fight back, as a matter of fact it's easier for them to fight drones back now (sig radius changes), do not forget that.
Try a scenario of 2-4 Interceptors scrambling a battleship pilot, let the pilot launch ~10 heavy drones and tell me if the Interceptors pilots drop before they manage to scratch the drones.
Also if you are MWD'ing, the drones should manage to catch up (and you are a huge target for the battleship pilot), 1x stasis should also eliminate MWD'ing frigates.
Differing Sig Radius:
The bigger drones are more bad ass, can be very dangerous to cruiser pilots as well, they need to be able to fight them as well, cruiser turrets have worse accuracy.
2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything. |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.07.30 14:24:00 -
[225]
Drone skill discussion
Is there a way you can take a look at the skills associated with drones?
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.07.30 14:24:00 -
[226]
Drone skill discussion
Is there a way you can take a look at the skills associated with drones?
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.07.30 17:03:00 -
[227]
something is totally screwed atm ...
atm we are back to "use heavy drones only cuz they pwn anything"!!!
As mentioned in the post above from me, ALL drones have THE SAME signature RESOLUTION of 25m!!!
it should be put back to
small 25m
medium 75m
heavy 150m
THERE IS ANOTHER BUG!!!
We tested 13 small drones vs an incrusus with 1x mwd! The drones missed way too often and couldnt really harm the ship.
REASON: The firgates speed was 1,7 km/s. The small drones cant stay in their optimal range to the frigate therefor they rarely hit them!!!!
A frig with 2x mwd is invulnerable vs drones since the drones are just too slow to stay in their optimal range! Which is kinda OK since 2x mwds setup have their drawbacks.
BUT atm a firgate with an afterburner is weaker as a firgate with a mwd!!!!!!!!!!
My frig was killed in seconds vs small drones flying about 650 m/s BUT with an mwd I was just too fast for the drones so they couldnt stay in their optimal range and therefor they hardly ever hit me even tho you get a signature radius increase from the mwd!!!
The damage on the whole seems OK but tracking is fubard due to the wrong SIGNATURE RESOLUTION of 25m and all drones hit the frig way too good if it was using an afterburner.
If this doenst get fixed we are back to "always fit a mwd on your frig".
Hope this helped.
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.07.30 17:03:00 -
[228]
something is totally screwed atm ...
atm we are back to "use heavy drones only cuz they pwn anything"!!!
As mentioned in the post above from me, ALL drones have THE SAME signature RESOLUTION of 25m!!!
it should be put back to
small 25m
medium 75m
heavy 150m
THERE IS ANOTHER BUG!!!
We tested 13 small drones vs an incrusus with 1x mwd! The drones missed way too often and couldnt really harm the ship.
REASON: The firgates speed was 1,7 km/s. The small drones cant stay in their optimal range to the frigate therefor they rarely hit them!!!!
A frig with 2x mwd is invulnerable vs drones since the drones are just too slow to stay in their optimal range! Which is kinda OK since 2x mwds setup have their drawbacks.
BUT atm a firgate with an afterburner is weaker as a firgate with a mwd!!!!!!!!!!
My frig was killed in seconds vs small drones flying about 650 m/s BUT with an mwd I was just too fast for the drones so they couldnt stay in their optimal range and therefor they hardly ever hit me even tho you get a signature radius increase from the mwd!!!
The damage on the whole seems OK but tracking is fubard due to the wrong SIGNATURE RESOLUTION of 25m and all drones hit the frig way too good if it was using an afterburner.
If this doenst get fixed we are back to "always fit a mwd on your frig".
Hope this helped.
Greetings Grim |
Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.30 17:57:00 -
[229]
WEll since warping is a travel thing then maybe MWD's should only be able to be used in travelling. Like the idea that when you MWD you can only travel in a straight line.
And then maybe buff afterburners to like 100% speed increase with no penalties besides their fitting requirment.
There isnt really anything I can think of that can kill a mwd'ing frigate except like a pirate loot nosferatu with 30km range.
I think afterburners should be used in combat and MWD shouldnt be viable in any circumstance exept for travelling. I thought the idea baout not being able to turn with a MWD was a pretty good idea. Of course people are going to cry though but I say do whats better for the game.
The light droens have a mwd velocity of 2km/s +. Why arent they hitting a ship that is going only 1.7km/s (single mwd frigate). You would think they would be able to match speed and in that situuation should have good enough tracking to nail them. I originally thought that maybe only an interceptor would be able to outdodge the light drones because they are beefed up frigates with speed and structure etc. And an interceptor with a mwd can go faster then a normal frigate.
Still as is the drone changes are 1000% better. And well you cant exactly make drones the own all be all. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I can live without light drones taking out a mwd'ing frigate but maybe it would be ideal to save that pleasure for the interceptors only. Either way its all good for me.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.30 17:57:00 -
[230]
WEll since warping is a travel thing then maybe MWD's should only be able to be used in travelling. Like the idea that when you MWD you can only travel in a straight line.
And then maybe buff afterburners to like 100% speed increase with no penalties besides their fitting requirment.
There isnt really anything I can think of that can kill a mwd'ing frigate except like a pirate loot nosferatu with 30km range.
I think afterburners should be used in combat and MWD shouldnt be viable in any circumstance exept for travelling. I thought the idea baout not being able to turn with a MWD was a pretty good idea. Of course people are going to cry though but I say do whats better for the game.
The light droens have a mwd velocity of 2km/s +. Why arent they hitting a ship that is going only 1.7km/s (single mwd frigate). You would think they would be able to match speed and in that situuation should have good enough tracking to nail them. I originally thought that maybe only an interceptor would be able to outdodge the light drones because they are beefed up frigates with speed and structure etc. And an interceptor with a mwd can go faster then a normal frigate.
Still as is the drone changes are 1000% better. And well you cant exactly make drones the own all be all. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I can live without light drones taking out a mwd'ing frigate but maybe it would be ideal to save that pleasure for the interceptors only. Either way its all good for me.
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Kynar
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Posted - 2004.07.30 22:16:00 -
[231]
I don't have a lot of time to play, so spending time on the test server is out. Can anyone give a heads up on how the current changes to drones affect NPC rats/mobs? I don't do any pvp. So I am really only concerned about the PvE aspect of the changes.
When I do agent runs I am in a different mode. Drones with my ship outfitted proper. However, that is a completely different story when I mine. Currently when I mine I use nothing but drones in a Thorax. So even though I can't test the changes myself, I am concerned.
Thanks Folks.
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Kynar
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Posted - 2004.07.30 22:16:00 -
[232]
I don't have a lot of time to play, so spending time on the test server is out. Can anyone give a heads up on how the current changes to drones affect NPC rats/mobs? I don't do any pvp. So I am really only concerned about the PvE aspect of the changes.
When I do agent runs I am in a different mode. Drones with my ship outfitted proper. However, that is a completely different story when I mine. Currently when I mine I use nothing but drones in a Thorax. So even though I can't test the changes myself, I am concerned.
Thanks Folks.
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Vaco
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Posted - 2004.07.31 00:17:00 -
[233]
Thank you for the reply TomB.
I have another question.
At the moment most ppl use drones and turret/missles as a hybrid. Others use just turrets and missles. Is there anything being worked on so that using just drones can become a more viable option?
I have used a thorax as a drone only boat before and I have had good results. I push its tanking ability to the limits and can take a lot of dammage. I am hoping the the Dominix and Vexor are test beds for a new idea that is brewing.
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Vaco
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Posted - 2004.07.31 00:17:00 -
[234]
Thank you for the reply TomB.
I have another question.
At the moment most ppl use drones and turret/missles as a hybrid. Others use just turrets and missles. Is there anything being worked on so that using just drones can become a more viable option?
I have used a thorax as a drone only boat before and I have had good results. I push its tanking ability to the limits and can take a lot of dammage. I am hoping the the Dominix and Vexor are test beds for a new idea that is brewing.
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Drakxter
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Posted - 2004.07.31 08:11:00 -
[235]
 Originally by: TomB
Also if you are MWD'ing, the drones should manage to catch up (and you are a huge target for the battleship pilot), 1x stasis should also eliminate MWD'ing frigates.
And that does still not make sense.
The faster the move the easier it is to hit you!?!?
CCP, Devs, Tombs.. what ever.. That is the worst, and most ugly "fix" you ever made.
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Most tired of thing atm:
- Mods on the forum saying: "Please use the bug report page to submit bugs, the forum is not the place to post them." and then closing a topic. |
Drakxter
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Posted - 2004.07.31 08:11:00 -
[236]
Originally by: TomB
Also if you are MWD'ing, the drones should manage to catch up (and you are a huge target for the battleship pilot), 1x stasis should also eliminate MWD'ing frigates.
And that does still not make sense.
The faster the move the easier it is to hit you!?!?
CCP, Devs, Tombs.. what ever.. That is the worst, and most ugly "fix" you ever made.
-------------
Most tired of thing atm:
- Mods on the forum saying: "Please use the bug report page to submit bugs, the forum is not the place to post them." and then closing a topic. |
Vaco
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:18:00 -
[237]
2 things that you control effect how easy you are to hit, your speed MWD the faster you go the larger sig you have. And your transverse. In other words dont MWD strait twords a target or strait away from.
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Vaco
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:18:00 -
[238]
2 things that you control effect how easy you are to hit, your speed MWD the faster you go the larger sig you have. And your transverse. In other words dont MWD strait twords a target or strait away from.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.01 12:36:00 -
[239]
I think the signature radius penalty on MWDs is the short and easy way out of the mistakes that were made in the new gun tracking formulas. But we all know they are flawed.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.01 12:36:00 -
[240]
I think the signature radius penalty on MWDs is the short and easy way out of the mistakes that were made in the new gun tracking formulas. But we all know they are flawed.
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