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Balthial Ashaere	Posted - 2004.07.27 19:54:00 - [121] Edited by: Balthial Ashaere on 27/07/2004 19:58:01 Ok, now these changes I like. I don't mind sacrificing half of my drone bay if my drones are getting an ~45% damage boost; keeps things nice and level and I have to worry about less drones, and the chance for wrecking hits and doing more than average damage is great. Good job TomB! Now please, just don't nerf the drones now that you have found a good offset for nerfing the Thorax, and remember to release these canges at once with the cruiser changes. EDIT: The only problem is they won't last as long, half to be precise, so you may want to double the shield and armour points on heavy drones to make them a bit longer lasting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balthial Ashaere	Posted - 2004.07.27 19:54:00 - [122] Edited by: Balthial Ashaere on 27/07/2004 19:58:01 Ok, now these changes I like. I don't mind sacrificing half of my drone bay if my drones are getting an ~45% damage boost; keeps things nice and level and I have to worry about less drones, and the chance for wrecking hits and doing more than average damage is great. Good job TomB! Now please, just don't nerf the drones now that you have found a good offset for nerfing the Thorax, and remember to release these canges at once with the cruiser changes. EDIT: The only problem is they won't last as long, half to be precise, so you may want to double the shield and armour points on heavy drones to make them a bit longer lasting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.07.27 20:30:00 - [123] Edited by: jukriamrr on 27/07/2004 20:31:19 Edited by: jukriamrr on 27/07/2004 20:31:05 Originally by: Neofight i think the main problem with NPC elites compared to Player elites is that NPC can tank/web/scram/damage/mwd and never run out of cap whereas a player would be forced to either tank the damage allowing you to warp out or try and lock you down whilst your drones slowly eat away at them unable to tank. Now that is bloody important and might be one hell of a problem as well :) I do not know of a single PC elite frigate pilot who can tank, web, stasis, mwd continously and shoot energy-based weapons at the same time. Solution A: if drones are made to destroy such ships, PC frigate pilots will dissapear from the game altogether (and we don't want that, do we ;) ) Solution B: if drones are made to destroy PC pilots, they will be nigh useless versus NPCs. What's it gonna be, Tom? ;)
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.07.27 20:30:00 - [124] Edited by: jukriamrr on 27/07/2004 20:31:19 Edited by: jukriamrr on 27/07/2004 20:31:05 Originally by: Neofight i think the main problem with NPC elites compared to Player elites is that NPC can tank/web/scram/damage/mwd and never run out of cap whereas a player would be forced to either tank the damage allowing you to warp out or try and lock you down whilst your drones slowly eat away at them unable to tank. Now that is bloody important and might be one hell of a problem as well :) I do not know of a single PC elite frigate pilot who can tank, web, stasis, mwd continously and shoot energy-based weapons at the same time. Solution A: if drones are made to destroy such ships, PC frigate pilots will dissapear from the game altogether (and we don't want that, do we ;) ) Solution B: if drones are made to destroy PC pilots, they will be nigh useless versus NPCs. What's it gonna be, Tom? ;)
Krendig	Posted - 2004.07.27 22:13:00 - [125] Looks good to me, but why did the wasp go from high speed/low defense to the other way around? It looks like you flipped the roles of the beserker and the wasp. I like wasps, don't care for beserkers-- Good thing I don't have a dominix full of the little varmints. --Krendig
Krendig	Posted - 2004.07.27 22:13:00 - [126] Looks good to me, but why did the wasp go from high speed/low defense to the other way around? It looks like you flipped the roles of the beserker and the wasp. I like wasps, don't care for beserkers-- Good thing I don't have a dominix full of the little varmints. --Krendig
Kintac	Posted - 2004.07.28 08:21:00 - [127] - What about new drones ? ( repair drones, mining drones, ... ) - What about new drone skills ?
Kintac	Posted - 2004.07.28 08:21:00 - [128] - What about new drones ? ( repair drones, mining drones, ... ) - What about new drone skills ?
Perry	Posted - 2004.07.28 14:12:00 - [129] Berserkers are Minmatar Style. Fast, Fragile.
Perry	Posted - 2004.07.28 14:12:00 - [130] Berserkers are Minmatar Style. Fast, Fragile.
Novo DuPont	Posted - 2004.07.28 14:40:00 - [131] Edited by: Novo DuPont on 28/07/2004 14:57:05 Tomb: I thought that the Drones would all get almost equal stats as well. If you follow this type of designed for the drones then that means each damage type of missiles/torps should have different speeds and agility. Seriously each class of drone should seperated into race classes and have multi damage types. For instance: Wasp (Gal) 65% damage is Kin and 35% is Therm (fastest tracking and highest damage) Orge (Cal) 65% damage is Therm and 35% is Kin (better shield resistance and size) Berserker (Arm) 50% EM damage and 50% Therm (better armor resistance and armor/structure HP) Praeator (Min) 70% Ex damage and 10% each of Kin, Therm and EM. (fastest drone with best falloff) If you are planning to do that to missiles/torps then I can see the same for Drones, if not then Drones should not differ much stats wize then. It is funny how NPC frigates can orbit at fast speeds and get hits all the time but Drones are not able to do the same with close to the same orbit speeds. Hmmmmmmmmmmm..... PS- Why does a Wasp have such a bad tracking speeds??? I thought Kinetic damage was Gallente speciality, and since they use blasters, the fastest tracking turrets in game, should not their drones have the fastest tracking as well?? "To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
Novo DuPont	Posted - 2004.07.28 14:40:00 - [132] Edited by: Novo DuPont on 28/07/2004 14:57:05 Tomb: I thought that the Drones would all get almost equal stats as well. If you follow this type of designed for the drones then that means each damage type of missiles/torps should have different speeds and agility. Seriously each class of drone should seperated into race classes and have multi damage types. For instance: Wasp (Gal) 65% damage is Kin and 35% is Therm (fastest tracking and highest damage) Orge (Cal) 65% damage is Therm and 35% is Kin (better shield resistance and size) Berserker (Arm) 50% EM damage and 50% Therm (better armor resistance and armor/structure HP) Praeator (Min) 70% Ex damage and 10% each of Kin, Therm and EM. (fastest drone with best falloff) If you are planning to do that to missiles/torps then I can see the same for Drones, if not then Drones should not differ much stats wize then. It is funny how NPC frigates can orbit at fast speeds and get hits all the time but Drones are not able to do the same with close to the same orbit speeds. Hmmmmmmmmmmm..... PS- Why does a Wasp have such a bad tracking speeds??? I thought Kinetic damage was Gallente speciality, and since they use blasters, the fastest tracking turrets in game, should not their drones have the fastest tracking as well?? "To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
Lansfear	Posted - 2004.07.28 14:51:00 - [133] Originally by: Novo DuPont PS- Why does a Wasp have such a bad tracking speeds??? I thought Kinetic damage was Gallente speciality, and since they use blasters, the fastest tracking turrets in game, should not their drones have the fastest tracking as well?? Makes sense.
Lansfear	Posted - 2004.07.28 14:51:00 - [134] Originally by: Novo DuPont PS- Why does a Wasp have such a bad tracking speeds??? I thought Kinetic damage was Gallente speciality, and since they use blasters, the fastest tracking turrets in game, should not their drones have the fastest tracking as well?? Makes sense.
Terradoct	Posted - 2004.07.28 15:30:00 - [135] Originally by: Novo DuPont Edited by: Novo DuPont on 28/07/2004 14:57:05 Tomb: I thought that the Drones would all get almost equal stats as well. If you follow this type of designed for the drones then that means each damage type of missiles/torps should have different speeds and agility. Seriously each class of drone should seperated into race classes and have multi damage types. For instance: Wasp (Gal) 65% damage is Kin and 35% is Therm (fastest tracking and highest damage) Orge (Cal) 65% damage is Therm and 35% is Kin (better shield resistance and size) Berserker (Arm) 50% EM damage and 50% Therm (better armor resistance and armor/structure HP) Praeator (Min) 70% Ex damage and 10% each of Kin, Therm and EM. (fastest drone with best falloff) If you are planning to do that to missiles/torps then I can see the same for Drones, if not then Drones should not differ much stats wize then. It is funny how NPC frigates can orbit at fast speeds and get hits all the time but Drones are not able to do the same with close to the same orbit speeds. Hmmmmmmmmmmm..... PS- Why does a Wasp have such a bad tracking speeds??? I thought Kinetic damage was Gallente speciality, and since they use blasters, the fastest tracking turrets in game, should not their drones have the fastest tracking as well?? If you don't know - Amarr - EM Gallente - Thermal Caldari - Kinetic Minmantar - Explouseve
Terradoct	Posted - 2004.07.28 15:30:00 - [136] Originally by: Novo DuPont Edited by: Novo DuPont on 28/07/2004 14:57:05 Tomb: I thought that the Drones would all get almost equal stats as well. If you follow this type of designed for the drones then that means each damage type of missiles/torps should have different speeds and agility. Seriously each class of drone should seperated into race classes and have multi damage types. For instance: Wasp (Gal) 65% damage is Kin and 35% is Therm (fastest tracking and highest damage) Orge (Cal) 65% damage is Therm and 35% is Kin (better shield resistance and size) Berserker (Arm) 50% EM damage and 50% Therm (better armor resistance and armor/structure HP) Praeator (Min) 70% Ex damage and 10% each of Kin, Therm and EM. (fastest drone with best falloff) If you are planning to do that to missiles/torps then I can see the same for Drones, if not then Drones should not differ much stats wize then. It is funny how NPC frigates can orbit at fast speeds and get hits all the time but Drones are not able to do the same with close to the same orbit speeds. Hmmmmmmmmmmm..... PS- Why does a Wasp have such a bad tracking speeds??? I thought Kinetic damage was Gallente speciality, and since they use blasters, the fastest tracking turrets in game, should not their drones have the fastest tracking as well?? If you don't know - Amarr - EM Gallente - Thermal Caldari - Kinetic Minmantar - Explouseve
Ebedar	Posted - 2004.07.28 15:49:00 - [137] IIRC Wasp are Caldari; Ogre are Gallente. My life in pictures:
Ebedar	Posted - 2004.07.28 15:49:00 - [138] IIRC Wasp are Caldari; Ogre are Gallente. My life in pictures:
Drusilla	Posted - 2004.07.28 17:04:00 - [139] Wierda - thanks, I get it. How about this: Small drones - work like the medium small turret (like 150MM autocannon or light ion blaster) Medium drones - work like the big small turret (like 200MM autocannon or light neutron blaster) Heavy drones - work small medium turret (like the smallest cruiser class autocannon or cruiser class electron blaster)? That way you could carry large numbers of guns but they'd be, at best, cruiser sized, with the small and medium having small turret type guns?
Drusilla	Posted - 2004.07.28 17:04:00 - [140] Wierda - thanks, I get it. How about this: Small drones - work like the medium small turret (like 150MM autocannon or light ion blaster) Medium drones - work like the big small turret (like 200MM autocannon or light neutron blaster) Heavy drones - work small medium turret (like the smallest cruiser class autocannon or cruiser class electron blaster)? That way you could carry large numbers of guns but they'd be, at best, cruiser sized, with the small and medium having small turret type guns?
Diana Merris	Posted - 2004.07.28 17:14:00 - [141] Now that you've mentioned this I was thinking about the appearances of the drones. The Heavy drones match but not all the Light drones do. The Hornet is the Minmatar looking light drone not the Warrior, they should switch the models. (or have they?) Presumably the new Vespa and Valkyre models have the proper race looks.
Diana Merris	Posted - 2004.07.28 17:14:00 - [142] Now that you've mentioned this I was thinking about the appearances of the drones. The Heavy drones match but not all the Light drones do. The Hornet is the Minmatar looking light drone not the Warrior, they should switch the models. (or have they?) Presumably the new Vespa and Valkyre models have the proper race looks.
Roderic Excelion	Posted - 2004.07.28 20:41:00 - [143] I don't know what half you guys are on about. I've been flying frigates exclusively for over a year and there is only one rule. If a bad guy launches 3 or more heavy drones, you run or your frigate is dead. no might-bes, no maybes, they shoot you to pieces doing equal damage at a faster rate till you die. Think I'm wrong? Try killing a thorax in any interceptor. 5 turrets, 10 drones, one dead interceptor.
Roderic Excelion	Posted - 2004.07.28 20:41:00 - [144] I don't know what half you guys are on about. I've been flying frigates exclusively for over a year and there is only one rule. If a bad guy launches 3 or more heavy drones, you run or your frigate is dead. no might-bes, no maybes, they shoot you to pieces doing equal damage at a faster rate till you die. Think I'm wrong? Try killing a thorax in any interceptor. 5 turrets, 10 drones, one dead interceptor.
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.07.28 21:13:00 - [145] Originally by: Roderic Excelion I don't know what half you guys are on about. I've been flying frigates exclusively for over a year and there is only one rule. If a bad guy launches 3 or more heavy drones, you run or your frigate is dead. no might-bes, no maybes, they shoot you to pieces doing equal damage at a faster rate till you die. Think I'm wrong? Try killing a thorax in any interceptor. 5 turrets, 10 drones, one dead interceptor. Have you read the initial post? -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.07.28 21:13:00 - [146] Originally by: Roderic Excelion I don't know what half you guys are on about. I've been flying frigates exclusively for over a year and there is only one rule. If a bad guy launches 3 or more heavy drones, you run or your frigate is dead. no might-bes, no maybes, they shoot you to pieces doing equal damage at a faster rate till you die. Think I'm wrong? Try killing a thorax in any interceptor. 5 turrets, 10 drones, one dead interceptor. Have you read the initial post? -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Sinist	Posted - 2004.07.28 23:11:00 - [147] Edited by: Sinist on 28/07/2004 23:14:50 I like drones how they are personally except for range bugs. I would like to see drones have optimal and fallofs as well as always attack at their maximum range. This way if I have scout drone lvl 5 they will always attack out of smartbomb range. Giving drones accuracy is ok too because it IS kind of unfair for them to hit say a ship going 5km+/s. Balance the MWD's so big ships cant go faster then that. Then make afterburners worth something (Whats the point of afterburners again? ). I have no problem not being able to take out a interceptor with my heavy drones unless I webify it. That should be expected. It was said when interceptors came out that speed would be their advantage. Make it so. But only if the small ships are mwd'ing. MWD's have a big enough penalty for using them to begin with (I dont use them bc cap and shield nerf sucks, no thx). Please buff afterburners to like 200% increase. But cruisers and battleships should be fair game for drones unless they are "dual mwding". Nerfing the drone size is the stupidest idea I have seen to date in Eve. Just uncalled for drug induced hangover. I can hold 30 heavy drones in my dominix I dont need any more. IT serves no sense either because ships were originally designed and balanced to have their drone bays balanced. A armageddon cant control 10 drones because it has 8 high slots. Awhile back you made your case about droens balanced some of this ships so they werent completely useless, and that some ships didnt have alot of drones because they would be too powerful. Now you want 90% of ships to be able to control 10 drones by default? No. Thats madness. Drone revision 2 is 10000000% better then your original proposal. You WILL see me whine though if you make mention of changing their sizes to like .0001m3. Dont touch the size of the drones or I will put baking soda in the volcanos in Iceland and you will be in big trouble when it fizzles over. Also note how this thread is relatively calm. Bc the ideas are better. GL sounds cool and if my character wasnt like 8 months behind this character I would help test them.
Sinist	Posted - 2004.07.28 23:11:00 - [148] Edited by: Sinist on 28/07/2004 23:14:50 I like drones how they are personally except for range bugs. I would like to see drones have optimal and fallofs as well as always attack at their maximum range. This way if I have scout drone lvl 5 they will always attack out of smartbomb range. Giving drones accuracy is ok too because it IS kind of unfair for them to hit say a ship going 5km+/s. Balance the MWD's so big ships cant go faster then that. Then make afterburners worth something (Whats the point of afterburners again? ). I have no problem not being able to take out a interceptor with my heavy drones unless I webify it. That should be expected. It was said when interceptors came out that speed would be their advantage. Make it so. But only if the small ships are mwd'ing. MWD's have a big enough penalty for using them to begin with (I dont use them bc cap and shield nerf sucks, no thx). Please buff afterburners to like 200% increase. But cruisers and battleships should be fair game for drones unless they are "dual mwding". Nerfing the drone size is the stupidest idea I have seen to date in Eve. Just uncalled for drug induced hangover. I can hold 30 heavy drones in my dominix I dont need any more. IT serves no sense either because ships were originally designed and balanced to have their drone bays balanced. A armageddon cant control 10 drones because it has 8 high slots. Awhile back you made your case about droens balanced some of this ships so they werent completely useless, and that some ships didnt have alot of drones because they would be too powerful. Now you want 90% of ships to be able to control 10 drones by default? No. Thats madness. Drone revision 2 is 10000000% better then your original proposal. You WILL see me whine though if you make mention of changing their sizes to like .0001m3. Dont touch the size of the drones or I will put baking soda in the volcanos in Iceland and you will be in big trouble when it fizzles over. Also note how this thread is relatively calm. Bc the ideas are better. GL sounds cool and if my character wasnt like 8 months behind this character I would help test them.
Iece Quaan	Posted - 2004.07.28 23:33:00 - [149] All drones need their accuracy boosted and damage boosted a bit. I shouldn't be able to kill arbitrators and thoraxes in my interceptor, solo. I also shouldnt be able to get a domi into half armor when he launches heavies at me. Thanks. --------
Iece Quaan	Posted - 2004.07.28 23:33:00 - [150] All drones need their accuracy boosted and damage boosted a bit. I shouldn't be able to kill arbitrators and thoraxes in my interceptor, solo. I also shouldnt be able to get a domi into half armor when he launches heavies at me. Thanks. --------

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