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Reven Cordelle
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:22:00 -
[1]
Linkage
This chap has refused to drive his bus because of a sign. His apparent reaction was "Shock Horror".
If it was Goatse, then yes. SHOCK HORROR would be what drifts into ones mind - but a few words that publicly state a doubt of existance to something that still has not been solidly proven to exist... makes me think this dude just wanted a day off.
It seems a bit odd to put this on a bus anyway. This is in the UK actually.. maybe it's not.
Still - How long until we see banners on the sides of busses not unlike those seen in "Children of Men"?
"CONSUME"
"BUY"
"PROCREATE"
"HAIL BRITANNIA" (That one is very unlikely.. as much as I'd love England to be like it's loose portrayal in Code Geass.. it unfortunately will never be.)
"WE ARE WATCHING. ALWAYS." (That one will come across when the government finally admits that the tiny little cameras in the front of most mobiles are indeed recording your every action... *tinfoilhat*)
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:26:00 -
[2]
Fortunately there are plenty of people looking for work at the moment, so this moop can be swiftly sacked for gross misconduct, given a weeks pay, and told to **** off. |
Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:29:00 -
[3]
"Probably"
He should be a good Christian and try to convince people that the sign is wrong and drive his damn bus just to show he doesn't care  |
jason hill
Caldari
Clan Shadow Wolf
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:34:00 -
[4]
typical religous nut job  it appears he doesnt allow other peoples opinion other than his own |
Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:37:00 -
[5]
Cheeky bugger was looking for a day off. I bet he's never even stepped foot in a church in his life! |
Stitcher
Caldari
legion of qui
Southern Connection
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Stitcher on 16/01/2009 11:39:21
the no god signs were the result of a bunch of atheists getting sick and tired of seeing buses driving past with scripture on the side, and decided to save up and buy five or six hundred with an "alternative point of view".
Fairly public exercise of free speech, in other words. It's a bit of a stretch from there to tinfoilhattery. |
TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:39:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: jason hill
typical religous nut job it appears he doesnt allow other peoples opinion other than his own
typical atheist nut job. it appears he doesn't allow other peoples opinion other than his own
lol jokes... tbh the bus driver should have drive the damn bus but been wearing loads of pro-christian stuff if he wanted to make an effective statement. |
JoeT
Amarr
Short Attention Span
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:41:00 -
[8]
Edited by: JoeT on 16/01/2009 11:42:23
its just a **** wanting a day off. :l
though if churches and the sort can cram it on a bus, why can't we do the same :)
Hell, maybe i'll go rent some ad space in the local newspaper and put the same thing. |
Rondo Gunn
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:42:00 -
[9]
Honestly, you don't hear about atheist bus drivers giving the shock horror reaction to the faith based ads that plaster the ones I see driving around.
*sigh*
Of course I could be wrong...hmm...(too google...awaaaay) |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:42:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 16/01/2009 11:45:07
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Cheeky bugger was looking for a day off. I bet he's never even stepped foot in a church in his life!
Gonna be saying this, this is why religion is ******ed. They get offended if someone has a different idea, jeez. Although this guy seems to have his head screwed on, so fair enough for him to be honest. |
Marisal
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:43:00 -
[11]
Drivers allowed to expresses his opinion as much as the signs on the side of the bus if he doesn't want to be associated or an instrument to spread those beliefs that's completely within his rights under freedom of worship laws.
He won't get sacked because there are no grounds to sack him on that wouldn't lead to the company been held up on a variety of legal charges.
He's not a religious nut job as he's not stopping the expression of the opinion he just doesn't want to be associated with it.
So read the entire article first and remember "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
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Alex Raptos
Caldari
The Firestorm Millennium
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Posted - 2009.01.16 12:05:00 -
[12]
Put it this way; If it was a Christian Advertisement and an Atheist Bus Driver, he would have probably just got on with his day.
Christianity is possibly the most advertised religion in many countries, but you dont see people complaining that instead of sitting through "Jesus Loves You" on Channel 5 at midday we could be watching whatever else could have been aired.
Hell i dont know how many adverts there are on the TV about christian charities and all that fluff.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 12:10:00 -
[13]
omg jesus christ (see what i did there?) how stupid can you be
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 12:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: jason hill
typical religous nut job it appears he doesnt allow other peoples opinion other than his own
typical atheist nut job. it appears he doesn't allow other peoples opinion other than his own
Wow, the irony lays so thick here I can't see the floor no more!
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
Sniper Wolf18
Gallente
A Pretty Pony Princess
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Posted - 2009.01.16 12:48:00 -
[15]
PFFFFT bus driver should be sacked
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F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 13:20:00 -
[16]
I'm truly worried about today's so-called "Christians" when they can be offended by such a display. I'm reminded of the "God warrior" exhibition many of you know about, the woman who was deeply disturbed by "dark-sided" paraphernalia.
Here's a hint: if you doubt your religious views because you see an ankh, you've got a lot think about.
I'm not going to bash religious folks as some others would, but you've got to be honest with yourselves that if you're confronted with something that doesn't conform to what you believe is your religion, and you're scared nearly bat-**** crazy, then how much do you really believe in your faith?
If you truly believe, then these sorts of messages shouldn't bother you. You'll just think something like, "Idiots", to be polite, and move on. That really speaks to your devotion.
Just what would these people do if they were confronted with an actual representative of pure EVIL? Would they cower in fear and freak out, or would they stand firm in their faith and face down this evil? I doubt many could.
I consider myself a man of faith, because I have faith in believing in faith, even if I don't ascribe to any Christian understanding of faith, so it really disgusts me when people who profess to be "believers" can't face something that questions their own faith. If they had truly read and comprehended the New Testament, then they would understand that dealing with challenges to their faith is a good thing.
It's sad, really. |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.16 13:37:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 16/01/2009 13:38:30
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: jason hill
typical religous nut job it appears he doesnt allow other peoples opinion other than his own
typical atheist nut job. it appears he doesn't allow other peoples opinion other than his own
Wow, the irony lays so thick here I can't see the floor no more!
Since I was not going to post, to keep from derailing, I will say I agree with Socratesz here.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 13:57:00 -
[18]
lol shesh I was joking 
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.16 14:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: TimMc
lol shesh I was joking
My bad 
Originally by: Marisal
He won't get sacked because there are no grounds to sack him on that wouldn't lead to the company been held up on a variety of legal charges.
Where I come from refusing to do your job is grounds for being fired. His life was not being endangered so there is no reason that he should not have done his job.
Slade
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:01:00 -
[20]
Double standards, if the sign said "there probably is a god, and you are going to hell!" then everyone would be all 'zomg thats unfair religious forcings on me!!1 halp!", but the equivalent of their side is just 'an opinion'
I would love to drive a goatse bus around town ^___^ that would be keen. But anti-religion ****es me off with its smug fanaticism. |
ceaon
Gallente
Porandor
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:03:00 -
[21]
i hope that dude get kicked from the bus company, that's a really cheap excuse
if you dont work gtfo and put a Romanian driver |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:12:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 16/01/2009 15:12:34
Originally by: Malcanis
Fortunately there are plenty of people looking for work at the moment, so this moop can be swiftly sacked for gross misconduct, given a weeks pay, and told to **** off.
Or just give him another bus/route, that way everybody wins. Company has a satisfied employee and employee has a company that cares for it's employees. ("What if every driver.../every time...?" That's unlikely to happen.)
No reason to promote corporate slavery or blind obedience, imo, it doesn't serve the interests of society in any way. |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vabjekf
But anti-religion ****es me off with its smug fanaticism.
Warning incoming derail....
Yeah I definately see all the anti-religious fanatics blowing **** up and killing people in the name of anti-religion 
I see the angle you are coming from, but your choice of words rubs me the wrong way. Smug I may give you, but fanaticism is a joke.
Slade
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Edited by: Qui Shon on 16/01/2009 15:12:34
Originally by: Malcanis
Fortunately there are plenty of people looking for work at the moment, so this moop can be swiftly sacked for gross misconduct, given a weeks pay, and told to **** off.
Or just give him another bus/route, that way everybody wins. Company has a satisfied employee and employee has a company that cares for it's employees. ("What if every driver.../every time...?" That's unlikely to happen.)
No reason to promote corporate slavery or blind obedience, imo, it doesn't serve the interests of society in any way.
Well what about the driver that is trying to loose weight and get healthy? They may not want to drive a bus that advertises McDonalds.
What about the driver that hates lawyers and their predatory nature? They may not want to support the personal injury law firm the company decides to advertise.
What about the driver that lost their parent to a negligent doctor? They do not want to drive the bus that advertises said hospital.
What about the driver that is scared of dogs? They may not want to drive the bus that has a big dog in the advertisement.
Where is the line drawn? I doubt people attribute bus wall ramblings, rhetoric, and/or advertisments as the word of the driver. Therefor there was probably little reason other then self arrogance that kept him from walking onto the bus and doing his job.
He should have done his job and no consolation given. IMHO.
Slade
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Ombey
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:39:00 -
[25]
So if he saw an atheist TV advert, he would presumably hand the remote control to his wife/ kids and refuse to 'drive' the TV. 
Taxi for one. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Double standards, if the sign said "there probably is a god, and you are going to hell!" then everyone would be all 'zomg thats unfair religious forcings on me!!1 halp!", but the equivalent of their side is just 'an opinion'
I would love to drive a goatse bus around town ^___^ that would be keen. But anti-religion ****es me off with its smug fanaticism.
Erm. reality check. There *ARE* buses driving around with religious bull**** on them about sin and repent and hell. Now atheists bring in a much more reasonable and definitely much more sensible approach and suddenly it's wrong? |
MyOwnSling
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sokratesz
There *ARE* buses driving around with religious bull**** on them about sin and repent and hell.
Where do you live? I don't doubt what you are saying, it's just that I have never seen such a thing on any bus I have encountered and I'm a bit curious as to where this is occuring.
-------------
Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face...
Originally by: MooKids
I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:58:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 16/01/2009 15:58:53
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Originally by: Qui Shon
Edited by: Qui Shon on 16/01/2009 15:12:34
Originally by: Malcanis
Fortunately there are plenty of people looking for work at the moment, so this moop can be swiftly sacked for gross misconduct, given a weeks pay, and told to **** off.
Or just give him another bus/route, that way everybody wins. Company has a satisfied employee and employee has a company that cares for it's employees. ("What if every driver.../every time...?" That's unlikely to happen.)
No reason to promote corporate slavery or blind obedience, imo, it doesn't serve the interests of society in any way.
Well what about the driver that is trying to loose weight and get healthy? They may not want to drive a bus that advertises McDonalds.
What about the driver that hates lawyers and their predatory nature? They may not want to support the personal injury law firm the company decides to advertise.
What about the driver that lost their parent to a negligent doctor? They do not want to drive the bus that advertises said hospital.
What about the driver that is scared of dogs? They may not want to drive the bus that has a big dog in the advertisement.
Where is the line drawn? I doubt people attribute bus wall ramblings, rhetoric, and/or advertisments as the word of the driver. Therefor there was probably little reason other then self arrogance that kept him from walking onto the bus and doing his job.
He should have done his job and no consolation given. IMHO.
Slade
I already addressed your question in the parenthesis of the post you quoted  If you wanted to argue that point, you should have addressed it directly, all those examples are certainly not neccessary.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Vabjekf
Double standards, if the sign said "there probably is a god, and you are going to hell!" then everyone would be all 'zomg thats unfair religious forcings on me!!1 halp!", but the equivalent of their side is just 'an opinion'
I would love to drive a goatse bus around town ^___^ that would be keen. But anti-religion ****es me off with its smug fanaticism.
Erm. reality check. There *ARE* buses driving around with religious bull**** on them about sin and repent and hell. Now atheists bring in a much more reasonable and definitely much more sensible approach and suddenly it's wrong?
I have never seen a bus that said something like that on it. At most you may see an advertisement for some religious thing or another, but not a message 'to' people about what they should be thinking.
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Xrak
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:00:00 -
[30]
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: Sokratesz
There *ARE* buses driving around with religious bull**** on them about sin and repent and hell.
Where do you live? I don't doubt what you are saying, it's just that I have never seen such a thing on any bus I have encountered and I'm a bit curious as to where this is occuring.
The entire bus advert campaign was started because of a religious advert with a website address, and on the website it said that non-Christians would damned to spend eternity in hell.
In Manchester we have buses driving round advertising Jesus and King's Church.
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MyOwnSling
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:01:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Xrak
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: Sokratesz
There *ARE* buses driving around with religious bull**** on them about sin and repent and hell.
Where do you live? I don't doubt what you are saying, it's just that I have never seen such a thing on any bus I have encountered and I'm a bit curious as to where this is occuring.
The entire bus advert campaign was started because of a religious advert with a website address, and on the website it said that non-Christians would damned to spend eternity in hell.
In Manchester we have buses driving round advertising Jesus and King's Church.
Ok, that makes more sense to me then, thank you. I'm not getting any of that on the other side of the Atlantic.
-------------
Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face...
Originally by: MooKids
I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:02:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Originally by: Vabjekf
But anti-religion ****es me off with its smug fanaticism.
Warning incoming derail....
Yeah I definately see all the anti-religious fanatics blowing **** up and killing people in the name of anti-religion
I see the angle you are coming from, but your choice of words rubs me the wrong way. Smug I may give you, but fanaticism is a joke.
Slade
Fanaticism:
Excessive, irrational zeal.
Your argument makes no sense, you don't need to 'blow stuff up' to be a fanatic.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:03:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Marisal
Drivers allowed to expresses his opinion as much as the signs on the side of the bus if he doesn't want to be associated or an instrument to spread those beliefs that's completely within his rights under freedom of worship laws.
Word. At least someone in this thread has some sense.
He's the busdriver (not just a passenger), and while "shock horror" is a bit too much the guy is not insane or fanatical to not want to drive a bus featuring messages that he strongly objects to. It's not like the guy is saying "OMG, you have to remove all of those adverts!", he just refuses to drive a bus with that sign.
I'm pretty hard to offend, but I can understand his viewpoint.
If I was a busdriver I would probably not want to drive a bus promoting for example Hamas or maybe the local right-wing extremist party. In the mind of the public I, as the driver, am a representative of the company, and while the company isn't pro every commercial on their buses they're not against either.
I would object as well to wearing a ton of religious imagery as a protest, it's not in line with what I view as the actions of a good company employee.
Thus the course of action that remains is to request a different bus.
______________________________________________
-My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:25:00 -
[34]
If an atheist was similarly offended by Christian posters, would you support the same course of action for them? |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
If an atheist was similarly offended by Christian posters, would you support the same course of action for them?
I would, but then i don't think there should be any religious advertisements on a bus at all, actually no ads whatsoever. i request a popup blocker for reality. |
Bish Ounen
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:43:00 -
[36]
Interstingly, this fellow's reaction is actually an outlier.
Most British Christians could care less.
Although, as another poster stated, he is well within his rights to not wish to be associated with the Atheist sentiment.
Sounds to me like some of you guys need to take a tolerance lesson from Britain's Christians.
Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Malusae
Caldari
House CHOAM
Terrebellum
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:48:00 -
[37]
I live under the belief that if I don't bother you about my faith in God, you shouldn't bother me on your lack of faith in God (Or of God in this case).
But I do think that this guy is within his right to refuse to drive the bus. Just like I would expect an atheist to be in their right to refuse to drive a bus if it had some religious advertisement on it. We all have the right to be offended, I suppose.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:50:00 -
[38]
I lolled
uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:21:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Qui Shon
("What if every driver.../every time...?" That's unlikely to happen.)
Originally by: Qui Shon
I already addressed your question in the parenthesis of the post you quoted If you wanted to argue that point, you should have addressed it directly, all those examples are certainly not neccessary.
My apolgies for missing that. I did not comprehend what was in those paranthesis.
So to approach it directly. How does not wanting to drive a bus for a petty reason have to do with not "promoting corporate slavery or blind obedience?
Originally by: Vabjekf
Fanaticism:
Excessive, irrational zeal.
Your argument makes no sense, you don't need to 'blow stuff up' to be a fanatic.
I would agree that not all fanatics blow stuff up. I think you would also agree that blowing something up due to your belief system would be a qualifier for being a fanatic.
Point being that atheists do not typically even come close to the definition you typed out. Theists on the other hand more often qualify by that definition in current times.
Slade
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mercyonman
Caldari
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:27:00 -
[40]
wow
this is what EVERYONE is trying to say about christians right?
christian troubles |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:22:00 -
[41]
I blame the labour party. |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
My apolgies for missing that. I did not comprehend what was in those paranthesis.
So to approach it directly. How does not wanting to drive a bus for a petty reason have to do with not "promoting corporate slavery or blind obedience?
The fault was mine, I go too far in my efforts to be concise sometimes.
"Do exactly as you're told without complaints, or get fired." That is the sentiment in a lot of the posts here, and that, as I hope you can see, is promoting such things. |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 18:35:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 16/01/2009 18:37:57
Originally by: Qui Shon
The fault was mine, I go too far in my efforts to be concise sometimes.
"Do exactly as you're told without complaints, or get fired." That is the sentiment in a lot of the posts here, and that, as I hope you can see, is promoting such things.
Trust me, I am all for voicing ones opinion. But the minute you refuse to do your job you refuse the opportunity to maintain that position. I would also have the same viewpoint for an atheist in the opposite situation.
Slade
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
Terradyne Networks Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:41:00 -
[44]
Well SURPRISE SURPRISE
Ok, so we expected this. I'm gonna go grab some coffee, anyone want some? |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:23:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Trust me, I am all for voicing ones opinion. But the minute you refuse to do your job you refuse the opportunity to maintain that position. I would also have the same viewpoint for an atheist in the opposite situation.
Slade
He's not neccesarily refusing to do his job, just doing it with one of the "afflicted" busses. Giving him another bus wouldn't neccesarily inconvenience the bus company in any significant way.
That's the blind obediance that so many here prescribe to, it doesn't need to be that way at all. The company could well work with their employees, instead of offering ultimatums. It doesn't need to, nor can it, bend over backwards, but that's not the case here.
I'm an atheist btw, and don't have much respect for religion. However, I do try to keep some respect for basically good people, even if they have invisible friends. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 19:25:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
"WE ARE WATCHING. ALWAYS." (That one will come across when...)
Wasn't that the creepy Orange network ad campaign years back? Link to photo on internet nutjob site. |
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 19:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Alex Raptos
Hell i dont know how many adverts there are on the TV about christian charities and all that fluff.
I don't know where you live, but Christian charities over here are certainly not fluff. Many of them do a great deal to improve the lives of people facing hardship of one type or another. |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 19:34:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Qui Shon
He's not neccesarily refusing to do his job, just doing it with one of the "afflicted" busses. Giving him another bus wouldn't neccesarily inconvenience the bus company in any significant way.
That's the blind obediance that so many here prescribe to, it doesn't need to be that way at all. The company could well work with their employees, instead of offering ultimatums. It doesn't need to, nor can it, bend over backwards, but that's not the case here.
I'm an atheist btw, and don't have much respect for religion. However, I do try to keep some respect for basically good people, even if they have invisible friends.
Well to be honest, per usual, I only have the shady article to go by. He asked for a new bus. The company said we do not have another bus at this time. Said individual walked out of work.
""I felt that I could not drive that bus, I told my managers and they said they haven't got another one and I thought I better go home, so I did."
He walked out on his job. He was unable to bite the bullet for one day to see if the company would give his grievances any thought. He should not maintain that position.
If this is not really what happened then my opinions could be different, but how it was presented, I do not think he should have a job the next day.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
Jacob Mei
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 19:38:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Linkage
This chap has refused to drive his bus because of a sign. His apparent reaction was "Shock Horror".
If it was Goatse, then yes. SHOCK HORROR would be what drifts into ones mind - but a few words that publicly state a doubt of existance to something that still has not been solidly proven to exist... makes me think this dude just wanted a day off.
It seems a bit odd to put this on a bus anyway. This is in the UK actually.. maybe it's not.
Still - How long until we see banners on the sides of busses not unlike those seen in "Children of Men"?
"CONSUME"
"BUY"
"PROCREATE"
"HAIL BRITANNIA" (That one is very unlikely.. as much as I'd love England to be like it's loose portrayal in Code Geass.. it unfortunately will never be.)
"WE ARE WATCHING. ALWAYS." (That one will come across when the government finally admits that the tiny little cameras in the front of most mobiles are indeed recording your every action... *tinfoilhat*)
You say things that get into the face of someones core beliefs and your shocked to see them retaliate? If someone put an ad that said your mother was a ***** and your boss told you to drive it would you?
--------------------------------
To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
|
Vabjekf
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 19:39:00 -
[50]
oh, i see. Ill just put these people in ovens for a little while, so my company can process my grievances about not wanting to final solution.
|
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 19:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
You say things that get into the face of someones core beliefs and your shocked to see them retaliate? If someone put an ad on your bus (assuming you were a bus driver that is) that said your mother was a ***** and your boss told you to drive it would you?
Well you should be able to prove you mother is not a *****, or at least prove that they have no evidence for the claim, and sue them for slander. As for the message in this article, it is a belief, a theory that can not be proven or dis proven. Something that, in my opinion, does not justify walking out on your job.
[/sarcasm]This message is got to be one of the most vile attacks aganist religion.[/end]
It did not even attack a single religion. Heck, the sign even included the word, probably.
This is laughable I am out of this thread
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
Sera Ryskin
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 20:11:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Marisal
He won't get sacked because there are no grounds to sack him on that wouldn't lead to the company been held up on a variety of legal charges.
Sure there are grounds to sack him, he's refusing to do his job. You legally have a right to believe whatever you want, but you do NOT have a right to keep your job and your paycheck even though you won't do the work it requires. If he does not wish to drive the bus as instructed to by his employer, he is perfectly free to find a new job that is less offensive to him.
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
|
Nicholas Barker
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 20:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Still - How long until we see banners on the sides of busses not unlike those seen in "Children of Men"?
"CONSUME"
"BUY"
"PROCREATE"
you mean the movie/short story "They live"
------
|
Haldane IV
Einstein's Dreams
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 21:21:00 -
[54]
The Humanist Organisations' intention was for these adverts to get people talking, the kind of people who would otherwise not give that much thought to all the implications of organised religion and whether there is a God (which are two different things)- you know, the guy in the pub in the evening says "you'll never guess what was on the side of my bus to work today, what do you think about that?"
So this incident and its attendant publicity is like manna from heaven for the Humanists, because now people have another topic to talk (and think!) about, namely whether the Bus Driver should have been sacked or not.
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Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 21:52:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Well to be honest, per usual, I only have the shady article to go by. He asked for a new bus. The company said we do not have another bus at this time. Said individual walked out of work.
""I felt that I could not drive that bus, I told my managers and they said they haven't got another one and I thought I better go home, so I did."
He walked out on his job. He was unable to bite the bullet for one day to see if the company would give his grievances any thought. He should not maintain that position.
If this is not really what happened then my opinions could be different, but how it was presented, I do not think he should have a job the next day.
Slade
Well, I'm not a bus driver, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get sacked if I missed a day of work because I had a problem with something we were doing. If it was something critical that ended up costing the company loads of money, then maybe, but a bus driver missing a day of work doesn't sound like it.
And they seem to have come to an agreement the next workday, as can be read in the article.
"When he returned to work on Monday he was called into a meeting with managers and agreed to go back to work with the promise he would only have to drive the buses if there were no others available."
I see you intended to leave the thread, but on the off chance that you didn't, I'm curious as to whether you're a student or if you're working somewhere? Large company? Small one? Manager? Self employed, contractor of some sort? I'm not looking to prove anything one way or the other, I'm just curious. |
Neyro7830
Gallente
Axxeon
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 01:38:00 -
[56]
I love it me some Cults now...
Oh god how did this get here I am not good with computer |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
MasterBlasters Inc.
CORPVS DELICTI
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 01:52:00 -
[57]
I'd fire him just to be an ass  |
Xen Gin
Universal Mining Inc
Forged Dominion
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 02:12:00 -
[58]
"There's probably no God.
Now stop worrying and enjoy life."
Apparently, he just couldn't get past the first line, and the second was completely lost on him. |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 02:27:00 -
[59]
Fire him, he knew he had no input in what commercials were on the side of the bus when he took the job.
Delenda est achura. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 02:45:00 -
[60]
What next, cabbies refusing to drive FT-branded cabs because they look vaguely pink and are an affront to their masculinity? Vegetarian pizza delivery staff refusing to deliver pizzas containing meat?
Fire this joker. Let him try to find a job where he does not have to make compromises.
|
Cierejai
Caldari
BlackSite Prophecy
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 03:24:00 -
[61]
I wonder what would happen if these buses had messages critical of Islam. |
Xrak
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 04:38:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Xrak on 17/01/2009 04:38:31
Originally by: Cierejai
I wonder what would happen if these buses had messages critical of Islam.
Allah is just the Arabic word for God, so the advert applies equally to all religions with a God or Gods, including Islam, Judaism and Hinduism.
|
Vabjekf
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 05:03:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Cierejai
I wonder what would happen if these buses had messages critical of Islam.
This is in the UK right?
They would complain about it, and the government would eventually cave in to the pressure.
|
Micia
Minmatar
N.A.S.A.
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 06:00:00 -
[64]
Bus driver better be refusing to accept any paychecks, too. 
Regardless whether he's driving the bus in question or not, the money from the advertising is covering the cost of his employment.
Yes, it's kinda nice of the bus company to try and accomodate him. Still, it should be a non-issue.
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rValdez5987
Amarr
32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 06:05:00 -
[65]
ALL HAIL BRITANNIA. HAIL 0/0/0/0/0/0/0/
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 10:16:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Well to be honest, per usual, I only have the shady article to go by. He asked for a new bus. The company said we do not have another bus at this time. Said individual walked out of work.
""I felt that I could not drive that bus, I told my managers and they said they haven't got another one and I thought I better go home, so I did."
He walked out on his job. He was unable to bite the bullet for one day to see if the company would give his grievances any thought. He should not maintain that position.
If this is not really what happened then my opinions could be different, but how it was presented, I do not think he should have a job the next day.
Slade
Well, I'm not a bus driver, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get sacked if I missed a day of work because I had a problem with something we were doing. If it was something critical that ended up costing the company loads of money, then maybe, but a bus driver missing a day of work doesn't sound like it.
And they seem to have come to an agreement the next workday, as can be read in the article.
"When he returned to work on Monday he was called into a meeting with managers and agreed to go back to work with the promise he would only have to drive the buses if there were no others available."
I see you intended to leave the thread, but on the off chance that you didn't, I'm curious as to whether you're a student or if you're working somewhere? Large company? Small one? Manager? Self employed, contractor of some sort? I'm not looking to prove anything one way or the other, I'm just curious.
Speaking as someone who relies on a bus service to get to work, if this guy thinks it is OK for 50 people to get in trouble for being late just because he doesn't like a poster that he won't even see - he just doesn't want OTHER PEOPLE seeing it - then **** him tbh.
Advertising is part of the bus company's business. |
The TX
Gallente
Pulsar Combat Supplies
Alternative Realities
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 10:38:00 -
[67]
I have an open mind regarding God(s) etc,
But I do like the term 'God Botherer(s)' - it makes me laugh.
-
-
-
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Holy wall of text TX-Man.
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 14:53:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/01/2009 14:53:44
Originally by: Malcanis
Speaking as someone who relies on a bus service to get to work, if this guy thinks it is OK for 50 people to get in trouble for being late just because he doesn't like a poster that he won't even see - he just doesn't want OTHER PEOPLE seeing it - then **** him tbh.
You've got a point there. I use the bus too sometimes, but it makes no difference to me if one is missing, since there are more then 50 different routes covering (most) of my trip to work. If you're reliant on a single line it'd be different, of course.
A bus company must have plans to counter breakdowns, illnesses, crashes and so forth, and this would, or should, just make them use those plans. A small hassle for a few people getting a replacement driver/bus, sure, but being fired over it is excessive, imo.
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 20:37:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/01/2009 14:53:44
Originally by: Malcanis
Speaking as someone who relies on a bus service to get to work, if this guy thinks it is OK for 50 people to get in trouble for being late just because he doesn't like a poster that he won't even see - he just doesn't want OTHER PEOPLE seeing it - then **** him tbh.
You've got a point there. I use the bus too sometimes, but it makes no difference to me if one is missing, since there are more then 50 different routes covering (most) of my trip to work. If you're reliant on a single line it'd be different, of course.
A bus company must have plans to counter breakdowns, illnesses, crashes and so forth, and this would, or should, just make them use those plans. A small hassle for a few people getting a replacement driver/bus, sure, but being fired over it is excessive, imo.
Yeah I'm just imagining the scenario at work if I declined to process an order for a customer because I didn't like them.
Mal "I don't like this customer's policy, so I'm not processing their order"
Mal's Manager "I wish you all the best in your new job".
|
Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 21:21:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Most British Christians could care less.
This article made me feel better about humanity 
__________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 21:53:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Malcanis
Yeah I'm just imagining the scenario at work if I declined to process an order for a customer because I didn't like them.
Mal "I don't like this customer's policy, so I'm not processing their order"
Mal's Manager "I wish you all the best in your new job".
Hehe. Well, sounds like I got a nicer boss then. Well, I haven't actually tried that yet of course, walking out in protest. Though I did get this one new customer assigned to me, that we were supposed to do this ridiculous thing for. When we had sat down with the customer and realized what they actually wanted, me and my colleague called our boss the same day to get somebody else, cause we aren't doing it, it was too ****ing stupid. That was our actual grievance, no religious or moral or other problem. So he did get somebody else from out of town, only causing a days delay for the customer, but deadline wasn't a problem.
If my boss had demanded I continue, or even worse, threatened to fire me, I'd have quit on the spot in any case. He didn't, and so I still work there, and everybody is happy.
I think my/our way is better for everyone.
|
Meek Wriggle
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 14:56:00 -
[72]
Saying there's "probably" no God is like saying there's "probably" no teaspoon in my room. It asserts nothing with confidence. It's a mere assumption, not based on fact. Whoever is behind this campaign really has no backbone. They don't want to offend people too much (either that or they don't sound entirely convinced on the non-existence of God themselves). If a doctor told you that you "probably" don't have cancer would you be comforted? Hardly. You'd want to know for certain. For this reason, I really don't understand why atheists are getting so aroused by this ad campaign.
Someone should come up with an alternate campaign; There "probably" is a God and you should be mildly concerned at the very least.
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 15:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Meek Wriggle
It's a mere assumption, not based on fact.
No, it's a statement of fact about probability. Like stating that a racehorse will probably beat a 6 year old child in a quarter mile race.
|
Meek Wriggle
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 16:54:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Meek Wriggle
It's a mere assumption, not based on fact.
No, it's a statement of fact about probability. Like stating that a racehorse will probably beat a 6 year old child in a quarter mile race.
For something to be probable means that it is not a certainty. Ergo my point is entirely valid. Even if it is highly likely that a racehorse will beat a 6 year old child, wouldn't you still like to know for certain? Or are you merely content believing that the horse will "probably" beat the child?
For atheists to boast about their reliance on rationality, logic and scientific study, and then to content themselves with a probability is foolishness. It is, probably, no different from the blind faith of a religious man.
|
Stitcher
Caldari
legion of qui
Southern Connection
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 17:06:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Meek Wriggle
Saying there's "probably" no God is like saying there's "probably" no teaspoon in my room. It asserts nothing with confidence. It's a mere assumption, not based on fact. Whoever is behind this campaign really has no backbone. They don't want to offend people too much (either that or they don't sound entirely convinced on the non-existence of God themselves). If a doctor told you that you "probably" don't have cancer would you be comforted? Hardly. You'd want to know for certain. For this reason, I really don't understand why atheists are getting so aroused by this ad campaign.
God is inherently impossible to prove, and thus inherently impossible to disprove. The "probably" is just that - a mature admission that being wrong IS an option, however unlikely.
IMO, for an atheist to definitively claim as "fact" that there is no God is hypocritical.
Personally, I prefer the route of identifying God as being indistinguishable from the universe, and thus simultaneously intimately involved in and utterly indifferent to human affairs.
-
Captain Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Haldane IV
Einstein's Dreams
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 19:50:00 -
[76]
The Christian Voice has now made a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority that the advert is, they assert, a ôstatement of factö which must therefore be capable of substantiation in order to comply with the Code.
The Humanist Society could not defend that complaint if they had omitted the word ôprobablyö because, as Stitcher says, they themselves assert, in keeping with currently generally accepted scientific method, that there can be no absolute proof .
However, including the word ôprobablyö allows them to argue they are complying with the code.
I imagine that is the reason (to comply with the ASA Code) that Carlsberg beer use the word ôprobablyö so conspicuously in their advert campaign, and why Johnny Rotten says in the butter advert that he eats Countrylife butter not because it tastes the best, but because he thinks it tastes the best.
Anyone in marketing here who can confirm that?
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 19:51:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Meek Wriggle
For something to be probable means that it is not a certainty. Ergo my point is entirely valid. Even if it is highly likely that a racehorse will beat a 6 year old child, wouldn't you still like to know for certain? Or are you merely content believing that the horse will "probably" beat the child?
If you are strict about it, there is nothing that is a "certainty". When the we feel the probability of something is high enough, we call it a certainty, so it might be easy to mix up actual irrefutable certainty, with the way we normally use the word.
Quote:
For atheists to boast about their reliance on rationality, logic and scientific study, and then to content themselves with a probability is foolishness. It is, probably, no different from the blind faith of a religious man.
That's a really backward statement. Logic and scientific study are all about the best explanation we can come up with, not about "Truth" with a capital T. It's religion and faith that gives definitive answers, that gives you "certainties".
There are no universal certainties, besides the old: I think, therefore something exists. |
kor anon
Amarr
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 20:03:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Cierejai
I wonder what would happen if these buses had messages critical of Islam.
This is in the UK right?
They would complain about it, and the government would immediately cave in to the pressure.
fixed that for you.
But in all seriousness, if the driver does not want to drive the bus due to his beliefs thats well within his rights, however if the employer wants to sack him for it that too is within the right of the employer imo |
Meek Wriggle
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 22:06:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Qui Shon
If you are strict about it, there is nothing that is a "certainty". When the we feel the probability of something is high enough, we call it a certainty, so it might be easy to mix up actual irrefutable certainty, with the way we normally use the word.
That's a really backward statement. Logic and scientific study are all about the best explanation we can come up with, not about "Truth" with a capital T. It's religion and faith that gives definitive answers, that gives you "certainties". Baseless ones, of course, but that's faith for you.
There are no universal certainties, besides the old: I think, therefore something exists.
After reading through your post several times you seem to be first confirming what I said, then refuting it, then refuting yourself. I'm puzzled and therefore am not going to degrade myself by trying to argue the nature of "truth" and "certainty" with someone who is "uncertain" on what they're actually trying to communicate. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 23:13:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Malcanis on 18/01/2009 23:16:39
Edited by: Malcanis on 18/01/2009 23:15:11
Originally by: Meek Wriggle
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Meek Wriggle
It's a mere assumption, not based on fact.
No, it's a statement of fact about probability. Like stating that a racehorse will probably beat a 6 year old child in a quarter mile race.
For something to be probable means that it is not a certainty. Ergo my point is entirely valid. Even if it is highly likely that a racehorse will beat a 6 year old child, wouldn't you still like to know for certain? Or are you merely content believing that the horse will "probably" beat the child?
For atheists to boast about their reliance on rationality, logic and scientific study, and then to content themselves with a probability is foolishness. It is, probably, no different from the blind faith of a religious man.
Can you prove that your entire existence is not merely the dream of the sole being in existence who will wake, then return to sleep and dream of being someone else? Or, more modernly, that you're not just a cybernetic simulation? No, of course you can't. And as soon as the concept of solipsism is introduced, then we have to abandon the notion of absolute physical proof as a logical impossibility. We may as well rely on the evidence of our senses that we live in an environment with consistent laws of cause and effect, because there is no practical alternative.
Can you prove that the universe and everything in it, including yourself, are not the creation of a small rabbit called George, who desires that every sentient being worship him by rubbing chocolate all over their body and singing the lumberjack song? Of course you can't prove that this isn't the case, but more importantly you have no particular reason to to think that is is the case. I probably wouldn't get very far trying to get you to smear candy over your body while singing that you wear womens clothes, even though the penalty for doing so - displeasing God - is infinitely steep. Pascal's Wager need only be reversed to be shown as a fraud. But what the agnostics and atheists are say is that they don't see why they should do what christians want - pretending to eat a biscuit that is magically turned into the flesh of a man who died 2000 years ago on pain of eternal damnation? No thanks! - for exactly the same reason that you won't worship George: because they see no evidence that Jehovah is any more likely than George, and they will neither rub chocolate on themselves nor eat zombie-chunks until someone provides it.
It is entirely rational to admit that humans are fallible, and it is logically demonstrable that it is impossible to know everything perfectly. That being the case, one can only live by either faith or one's best judgement of the probabilities afforded by one's own perceptions.
I won't say that one choice is "better" than another - that begs the question. But you can't say that the poster is illogical. Well, you can say it, but you can't prove it, because it's logically true.
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 23:40:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/01/2009 23:47:35
Originally by: Meek Wriggle
Originally by: Qui Shon
If you are strict about it, there is nothing that is a "certainty". When the we feel the probability of something is high enough, we call it a certainty, so it might be easy to mix up actual irrefutable certainty, with the way we normally use the word.
That's a really backward statement. Logic and scientific study are all about the best explanation we can come up with, not about "Truth" with a capital T. It's religion and faith that gives definitive answers, that gives you "certainties". Baseless ones, of course, but that's faith for you.
There are no universal certainties, besides the old: I think, therefore something exists.
After reading through your post several times you seem to be first confirming what I said, then refuting it, then refuting yourself. I'm puzzled and therefore am not going to degrade myself by trying to argue the nature of "truth" and "certainty" with someone who is "uncertain" on what they're actually trying to communicate.
I'm not uncertain on what I'm trying to say at all. First I'm telling you the difference between the literal, clinical if you will, and common meaning of the word.
Then I'm telling you that, insofar as probability and certainty are concerned, the difference between religion and science is that religion tells you, with absolute, undeniable certainty, how the world works, without any evidence, logic or review from peers. Whereas science will give you the most probable explanation based on evidence, logic and peer review of theories. You're free to come up with a better explanation (for anything), but if you want anyone to take you seriously, your explanation has to be grounded in evidence strongly enough to convince your peers. (And by peers, I mean scientists, not Bubba at your local truckstop)
Any reasonable man will pick the method that seems the most probable to produce accurate results.
If you're still confused, then please be aware that just because something is stated with certainty, does not make it true. Or even probable .
|
Neyro7830
Gallente
Axxeon
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 00:29:00 -
[82]
lolreligion |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 09:37:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 19/01/2009 09:38:33
Originally by: Cierejai
I wonder what would happen if these buses had messages critical of Islam.
Go look up 'atheist' and 'humanist'. Allah or god are just personifications of the same delusion.
But it would be a fun experiment if they replaced god with allah or jahweh on some of them buses.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
Sera Ryskin
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 09:47:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Go look up 'atheist' and 'humanist'. Allah or god are just personifications of the same delusion.
But it would be a fun experiment if they replaced god with allah or jahweh on some of them buses.
This. I'm an equal-opportunity atheist, I disbelieve in all gods.
And it's irrelevant to the incident here, the driver should have been fired for his refusal to do his job, not for his personal beliefs. It doesn't matter if he refused to do his job because of anti-Christian messages, anti-Islamic messages, fast food ads when he's a vegetarian, or just because the bus was painted the wrong color. No work = no paycheck, end of discussion.
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
|
Reven Cordelle
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 09:49:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Cierejai
I wonder what would happen if these buses had messages critical of Islam.
To be incredibly stereotypical - the busses would be suicide-bombed.
|
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 10:28:00 -
[86]
A bit off topic but I had to post it..
Some people say they think god is good and great because they stand in awe of nature etc..I prefer to stand in awe of nature for nature's sake myself but even mathematics has something to pitch in. Consider this:
Every time you drink a glass of water you will very likely drink one or more molecules of water from the body of every human being that has ever lived on this planet. Egyptian Pharaoh, English play writer, German politician...you name it. This is because the amount of molecules in a glass of water is almost infinitely larger than the amount of glasses of water on the planet.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
KingsGambit
Caldari Knights
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 12:59:00 -
[87]
What's with aetheists tring to shove their views down everyone elses throats? Getting as bad as jehova's witnesses. Okay, you don't believe in God, good for you, get on with your lives and leave everyone else alone. Why they feel the need to advertise their aethisim, or worse yet, the new breed of 'Dawkins' followers who hate religion about as much as they claim the religious hate, is getting annoying now.
And why should the man drive that bus, if he was not told when he accepeted the job that he may have to do things that offend his religious beliefs? Is it reasonable to expect a vegetarian who takes a job in produce to transfer to the meat dept? Or conversely, would it be fair to ask a strict atheist to go around exclaiming that there is a God(s)? |
ceaon
Gallente
Porandor
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 13:07:00 -
[88]
Originally by: KingsGambit
What's with aetheists tring to shove their views down everyone elses throats? Getting as bad as jehova's witnesses. Okay, you don't believe in God, good for you, get on with your lives and leave everyone else alone. Why they feel the need to advertise their aethisim, or worse yet, the new breed of 'Dawkins' followers who hate religion about as much as they claim the religious hate, is getting annoying now.
And why should the man drive that bus, if he was not told when he accepeted the job that he may have to do things that offend his religious beliefs? Is it reasonable to expect a vegetarian who takes a job in produce to transfer to the meat dept? Or conversely, would it be fair to ask a strict atheist to go around exclaiming that there is a God(s)?
first ask yourself
What's with Christian thing to shove their views down everyone elses throats?
aetheists only show that now but Christians make this for the last 2000 years |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 13:17:00 -
[89]
Originally by: KingsGambit
What's with aetheists tring to shove their views down everyone elses throats? Getting as bad as jehova's witnesses. Okay, you don't believe in God, good for you, get on with your lives and leave everyone else alone. Why they feel the need to advertise their aethisim, or worse yet, the new breed of 'Dawkins' followers who hate religion about as much as they claim the religious hate, is getting annoying now.
And why should the man drive that bus, if he was not told when he accepeted the job that he may have to do things that offend his religious beliefs? Is it reasonable to expect a vegetarian who takes a job in produce to transfer to the meat dept? Or conversely, would it be fair to ask a strict atheist to go around exclaiming that there is a God(s)?
You may not be aware, but London buses have frequently carried Christian advertising in the past. Turnabout is fair play and all that...
No atheist bus drivers have refused to do their jobs because of christian posters on the buses. |
KingsGambit
Caldari Knights
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 13:35:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Malcanis
...but London buses have frequently carried Christian advertising in the past.
I haven't seen or heard of that, though if it is the case then I suppose it is fair enough. Though really I personally don't think religious advertising should be permitted. From the article it was passed by the "Advertising Standards Agency"...ultimately I think they should just not allow it in any form, regardless of the viewpoint. They banned tobacco advertising in the UK, don't see why these things should be allowed either on similar grounds. The same reason why religion isn't preached in (secular) state schools (at least not beyond academic RE lessons). |
Sir Cockface
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 14:42:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Cierejai
I wonder what would happen if these buses had messages critical of Islam.
This is in the UK right?
They would complain about it, and the government would eventually cave in to the pressure.
try to imagine what would happen if those buses had a message critical of Judaism. The driver would be immediately arrested, charged with anti-semitism and who knows how long he would rot in jail. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 17:45:00 -
[92]
Originally by: KingsGambit
Originally by: Malcanis
...but London buses have frequently carried Christian advertising in the past.
I haven't seen or heard of that, though if it is the case then I suppose it is fair enough. Though really I personally don't think religious advertising should be permitted. From the article it was passed by the "Advertising Standards Agency"...ultimately I think they should just not allow it in any form, regardless of the viewpoint. They banned tobacco advertising in the UK, don't see why these things should be allowed either on similar grounds. The same reason why religion isn't preached in (secular) state schools (at least not beyond academic RE lessons).
Yeah well I'm not in favour of restricting free speech just so that the hard of thinking can avoid being offended. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 20:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: KingsGambit
And why should the man drive that bus, if he was not told when he accepeted the job that he may have to do things that offend his religious beliefs?
Your problem lies there my friend.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
kor anon
Amarr
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 20:34:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: KingsGambit
And why should the man drive that bus, if he was not told when he accepeted the job that he may have to do things that offend his religious beliefs?
Your problem lies there my friend.
Then he loses the job. Personally i would not keep employing someone if he decided when it was good for him to work.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.01.20 00:13:00 -
[95]
Originally by: KingsGambit
What's with aetheists tring to shove their views down everyone elses throats? Getting as bad as jehova's witnesses. Okay, you don't believe in God, good for you, get on with your lives and leave everyone else alone. Why they feel the need to advertise their aethisim, or worse yet, the new breed of 'Dawkins' followers who hate religion about as much as they claim the religious hate, is getting annoying now.
Why does every religion feel the need to do the same? Here's a hint: every single bus around here has ads for various churches (though inside, there are no outside signs). I find it hilarious that religious people whine about shoving our beliefs down everyone's throats, when religions have been doing the exact same thing, and doing it to a MUCH larger degree.
Quote:
And why should the man drive that bus, if he was not told when he accepeted the job that he may have to do things that offend his religious beliefs? Is it reasonable to expect a vegetarian who takes a job in produce to transfer to the meat dept? Or conversely, would it be fair to ask a strict atheist to go around exclaiming that there is a God(s)?
He should drive that bus because he accepted a job that requires him to drive that bus. This is just as stupid as if I were to refuse to show up for work around Christmas because the religious music offended me, and then complain when I was fired. If your moral standards do not allow you to perform a job, don't accept the job.
And your analogies are just stupid. The hypothetical vegetarian is being asked to accept a job that is NOT the one they signed up for, while the bus driver is just expected to do the job he already has. I don't know what your point is about asking an atheist to go around exclaiming that there is a god, as I can't really think of any plausible scenario where the atheist would ever have a job that involves doing so.
Anyway, for what seems like the billionth time: the issue here is NOT beliefs, it is failure to do a job. If you accept a job, you are expected to do the job you are getting paid to do. It doesn't matter what your reasons are, if you refuse to do the work, don't expect the paycheck. |
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 00:40:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Anyway, for what seems like the billionth time: the issue here is NOT beliefs, it is failure to do a job. If you accept a job, you are expected to do the job you are getting paid to do. It doesn't matter what your reasons are, if you refuse to do the work, don't expect the paycheck.
Pfft. Like in the example I gave earlier, it benefits no-one to be so one-eyed like that. |
Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
MagiTech Corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 04:10:00 -
[97]
Originally by: jason hill
typical religous nut job it appears he doesnt allow other peoples opinion other than his own
heavens, totally unlike you, the atheist, who is just now bagging him for running with his beliefs, you paragon of tolerance you. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 09:12:00 -
[98]
Originally by: kor anon
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: KingsGambit
And why should the man drive that bus, if he was not told when he accepeted the job that he may have to do things that offend his religious beliefs?
Your problem lies there my friend.
Then he loses the job. Personally i would not keep employing someone if he decided when it was good for him to work.
Exactly he should be bloody fired.
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: jason hill
typical religous nut job it appears he doesnt allow other peoples opinion other than his own
heavens, totally unlike you, the atheist, who is just now bagging him for running with his beliefs, you paragon of tolerance you.
The issue here is beyond that. He has his beliefs, but then expects others to respect them and make special accommodations for them. He is a bus driver not a lobbyist if he had wanted to change the world he took the wrong turn at career junction. |
Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
MagiTech Corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 09:32:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Sir Substance on 20/01/2009 09:32:56
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: jason hill
typical religous nut job it appears he doesnt allow other peoples opinion other than his own
heavens, totally unlike you, the atheist, who is just now bagging him for running with his beliefs, you paragon of tolerance you.
The issue here is beyond that. He has his beliefs, but then expects others to respect them and make special accommodations for them. He is a bus driver not a lobbyist if he had wanted to change the world he took the wrong turn at career junction.
the issue here is athiest hypocrisy.
speaking as an agnostic, and therefore entirely neutral between believers and non-believers, i see athiests as far more zelous about converting people to their side, athiests are forever trying to shove their non-belief down othe peoples throats. ironic, given whenever i hear people ask a diehard athiest why he dislikes religion, his first objection is always because they keep trying to convert him. if this had been an athiest objecting to driving a bus with the word of god on the side, our friend mr hill would have been right behind him, ill wager.
Christians arnt always the most agreeable people, but they stick to their guns. i can respect them for that, but i have precisely 0 respect for mr hill here. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 09:53:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Sir Substance
speaking as an agnostic, and therefore entirely neutral between believers and non-believers, i see athiests as far more zelous about converting people to their side, athiests are forever trying to shove their non-belief down othe peoples throats. ironic, given whenever i hear people ask a diehard athiest why he dislikes religion, his first objection is always because they keep trying to convert him. if this had been an athiest objecting to driving a bus with the word of god on the side, our friend mr hill would have been right behind him, ill wager.
Christians arnt always the most agreeable people, but they stick to their guns. i can respect them for that, but i have precisely 0 respect for mr hill here.
Are you certain about that? Try Russel's teapot, or are you agnostic on that one too?
This whole issue got started because religious folk have been advertising on these buses for years about hell and damnation. Oh and learn to spell, reading your post hurt my eyes.
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KingsGambit
Caldari Knights
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 10:28:00 -
[101]
Presumably the man signed a contract, as would anyone who has a job. A contract will say what employer and employee will and will not do. In addition, there is something called law that a) allows for people to practise their own faith, b) do so without fear of prejudice in the workplace (equality at work).
My gut reaction is to scoff and say he ought to get a different job if he doesn't like it. Taken as 'man refuses to perform duties' that would be fair. But that isn't the case...he refused to drive that bus because of quite valid reasons. He has a contract, he would have been hired knowing he has a faith, the employer is asking him to do something that is against that. It seems quite simple here.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
MagiTech Corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 10:32:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Sir Substance
speaking as an agnostic, and therefore entirely neutral between believers and non-believers, i see athiests as far more zelous about converting people to their side, athiests are forever trying to shove their non-belief down othe peoples throats. ironic, given whenever i hear people ask a diehard athiest why he dislikes religion, his first objection is always because they keep trying to convert him. if this had been an athiest objecting to driving a bus with the word of god on the side, our friend mr hill would have been right behind him, ill wager.
Christians arnt always the most agreeable people, but they stick to their guns. i can respect them for that, but i have precisely 0 respect for mr hill here.
Are you certain about that? Try Russel's teapot, or are you agnostic on that one too?
This whole issue got started because religious folk have been advertising on these buses for years about hell and damnation. Oh and learn to spell, reading your post hurt my eyes.
ah, the old spelling game. i see you have no argument against anything i say then.
also, i am aware of the Russells teapot argument, however, the fact remains that any logical argument put forth as to the non-existence of god can be dismissed by an equal argument from the opposite side. this is because there is no real proof on either side for the existance/non-exsitance of a being who can create a universe on a whim.
i will remind you of the old phrase "quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur"
loosely translated, it means "what is asserted without reason may be denied without reason". since neither side has a reason to believe what it does, other then because it wants to, a christian doesn't need any evidence to support his belief, any more then an atheist needs any to deny it. until a piece of descreet, physical evidence comes to the fore, no side is more valid then the other.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 10:45:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 20/01/2009 10:46:21
Originally by: Sir Substance
ah, the old spelling game. i see you have no argument against anything i say then.
Yes I do.
Originally by: Sir Substance
also, i am aware of the Russells teapot argument, however, the fact remains that any logical argument put forth as to the non-existence of god can be dismissed by an equal argument from the opposite side. this is because there is no real proof on either side for the existance/non-exsitance of a being who can create a universe on a whim.
But upon whom lies the burden of proof? THAT is the key of Russels argument. You can make all kinds of silly claims but the degree of absurdity nor their amunt doesn't make them any more likely to be true.
Originally by: Sir Substance
loosely translated, it means "what is asserted without reason may be denied without reason". since neither side has a reason to believe what it does, other then because it wants to, a christian doesn't need any evidence to support his belief, any more then an atheist needs any to deny it. until a piece of descreet, physical evidence comes to the fore, no side is more valid then the other.
Science is all about proof and testability. Atheism is simply a spinoff of that 'mindset', and it is *all* about proof and evidence. Until christians can bring forth some evidence of their cause they are most definitely on the losing side.
I find this an ironic bit by the way. There is a group of people defending religion on the grounds that it doesn't need proof, while on the other end there are religious people like Michael Behe and the YEC movement trying to do exactly this, find proof!
I would recommend you read the chapter from the God Delusion about agnosticism because it seems you've placed yourself firmly with it, but fail to understand the greater picture in which it resides.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
Sera Ryskin
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 15:05:00 -
[104]
Oh yes, the "all you atheists are so extreme!!!!" argument, how entirely original...
Here's a hint for you: if you think religions haven't been doing exactly the same thing, and to a much greater degree, you haven't been paying attention at all. Hell, even ignore the raving nutcases who will openly tell you that they wish you would be tortured for eternity, church advertisements are everywhere. Signs by the road, on buses, in newspapers, etc, all telling you "believe or burn in hell, you filthy sinner". Some more directly than others, but it's always there.
Of course a lot of the reason you don't see that religious preaching is everyone already assumes you're a good little Christian, just like everyone else. It's very easy to refrain from spending a lot of energy trying to convert people when you already have 90% of the population...
As for the "you have no proof of non-god" argument, that's just silly. I also don't have any proof of the non-existence of unicorns, invisible teapots, or the easter bunny. But would you say it's reasonable to be agnostic about the existence of unicorns, and claim that all those anti-unicorn-ists are just arrogant and don't have any proof? Hell no. The only difference between god and unicorns is that it's socially acceptable (and even expected) to believe in god without proof.
Maybe try reading this, and see if you understand the burden of proof here. |
Corwain
Gallente
Dark Skullz Empire
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 15:21:00 -
[105]
Makes sense to me. A gay bus driver probly wouldn't drive a bus with the sign "All gays are probably going to HELL!" either. I don't understand all the religious persecution being thrown about here. |
Sera Ryskin
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 15:28:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Corwain
Makes sense to me. A gay bus driver probly wouldn't drive a bus with the sign "All gays are probably going to HELL!" either. I don't understand all the religious persecution being thrown about here.
Irony, thy name is Corwain...
Hint: read my post above. Telling religious people they are wrong, or expecting a religious person to you know, do the job they're expecting to get paid for, is not persecution. Maybe you should go look at what real religious persecution is, so you'll know how whiny you sound? |
KingsGambit
Caldari Knights
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 15:35:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
He should drive that bus because he accepted a job that requires him to drive that bus....If your moral standards do not allow you to perform a job, don't accept the job.
And your analogies are just stupid. The hypothetical vegetarian is being asked to accept a job that is NOT the one they signed up for, while the bus driver is just expected to do the job he already has.
The analogy is the same. The bus driver did accept a job, the company accepted him, they have an employment contract. That job has however changed....not in a technical sense, he is a bus driver being asked to drive a bus, that is true. However the company knew he held beliefs when he took the job and by asking him to drive 'that' bus, they were asking him to go against them.
If he drove it one day, then the second day he changed his mind, or he became religious after taking the job (or even accepted the job knowing they might advertise things that offended him), then I'd be in agreement with you 100%. As it is, the managers said they're gonna find him a different bus to drive, and he's okay with that...I think that's quite fair.
Quote:
It doesn't matter what your reasons are, if you refuse to do the work, don't expect the paycheck.
Tell that to the trade unions 
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:44:00 -
[108]
Originally by: KingsGambit
If he drove it one day, then the second day he changed his mind, or he became religious after taking the job (or even accepted the job knowing they might advertise things that offended him), then I'd be in agreement with you 100%. As it is, the managers said they're gonna find him a different bus to drive, and he's okay with that...I think that's quite fair.
This is the key point: he did (or at least should have, if he stopped to think before acting) know this. Anyone with a little common sense would know that the bus drive doesn't approve the ads on the bus. It should be pretty obvious that there was a chance that he might have to drive a bus with an ad that he disagreed with, but he was happy to ignore that and collect his paycheck.
And like I've said, where do you draw the line? Should a bus drive be able to refuse to do his job because there's an ad for a rival sports team?
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Corwain
Gallente
Dark Skullz Empire
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 16:05:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Originally by: Corwain
Makes sense to me. A gay bus driver probly wouldn't drive a bus with the sign "All gays are probably going to HELL!" either. I don't understand all the religious persecution being thrown about here.
Irony, thy name is Corwain...
Hint: read my post above. Telling religious people they are wrong, or expecting a religious person to you know, do the job they're expecting to get paid for, is not persecution. Maybe you should go look at what real religious persecution is, so you'll know how whiny you sound?
Harassing someone for their religious beliefs is persecution, weather that's verbal or physical. Obviously running someone over with a steamroller starting with their feet (as has happened to friends of mine in China) is a lot more extreme than the antagonism towards Christians going on in this thread and this forum.
Personally I've made myself the black sheep of my family by rejecting their beliefs, but I still sympathize with them. The sign was obviously offensive to those that believe in a god. What if the guy was a Muslim? People here might then be defending him.
Christians join the furries as the politically correct targets of today. I suppose it can't be helped, and no amount of arguing is gonna change things until the wheel turns again. Of course as my good friend Whedon points out through his character Badger, "That only matters to those on the rim."
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:09:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Originally by: Corwain
Makes sense to me. A gay bus driver probly wouldn't drive a bus with the sign "All gays are probably going to HELL!" either. I don't understand all the religious persecution being thrown about here.
Irony, thy name is Corwain...
Hint: read my post above. Telling religious people they are wrong, or expecting a religious person to you know, do the job they're expecting to get paid for, is not persecution. Maybe you should go look at what real religious persecution is, so you'll know how whiny you sound?
Harassing someone for their religious beliefs is persecution, weather that's verbal or physical. Obviously running someone over with a steamroller starting with their feet (as has happened to friends of mine in China) is a lot more extreme than the antagonism towards Christians going on in this thread and this forum.
Personally I've made myself the black sheep of my family by rejecting their beliefs, but I still sympathize with them. The sign was obviously offensive to those that believe in a god. What if the guy was a Muslim? People here might then be defending him.
Christians join the furries as the politically correct targets of today. I suppose it can't be helped, and no amount of arguing is gonna change things until the wheel turns again. Of course as my good friend Whedon points out through his character Badger, "That only matters to those on the rim."
Apparently it's also to make remarks about the English that would be an instaban if applied to eg: jewish or black people.
But that's OK. We hate you right back
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.20 17:41:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
This is the key point: he did (or at least should have, if he stopped to think before acting) know this. Anyone with a little common sense would know that the bus drive doesn't approve the ads on the bus. It should be pretty obvious that there was a chance that he might have to drive a bus with an ad that he disagreed with, but he was happy to ignore that and collect his paycheck.
And like I've said, where do you draw the line? Should a bus drive be able to refuse to do his job because there's an ad for a rival sports team?
Well, good thing for ALL involved the company in question draws the line a lot later then you one-eyed peeps do. |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 17:56:00 -
[112]
Hey Qui Shon, I sent you an eve mail answering the questions you posed to me earlier in the thread.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 20:11:00 -
[113]
He stood up for his beliefs. Good on him, I say.
And if the company has any backbone, they'll lay him off. Good for them as well.
Actions have consequences...if he really believes what he says he does, he'll be happy to go find another job.
As for the rest...I think it's a shame the common observer can't celebrate that the man lives in a society where he can express his religious beliefs without fear for his life...and that the expression of his beliefs doesn't threaten the life of others. Depending on which part of the world this story took place in, it could've been a disgruntled bus driver parking next to a bus station with a bus crammed full of explosives because he didn't like the religious message on his company put on his bus.
All this talk about religious extremism, when nothing extreme happened. The dude expressed an opinion peacefully and was allowed to do so. That's good news, folks. |
Corwain
Gallente
Dark Skullz Empire
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 20:15:00 -
[114]
Hehe, well phrased Garreck, that's basically the feeling that I was trying to express as well. I haven't been putting together the best worded posts of late it seems. |
Sera Ryskin
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 21:15:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Corwain
Harassing someone for their religious beliefs is persecution, weather that's verbal or physical. Obviously running someone over with a steamroller starting with their feet (as has happened to friends of mine in China) is a lot more extreme than the antagonism towards Christians going on in this thread and this forum.
Like I said, it would be nice for you to experience some real persecution so you'd know just how whiny you sound. Telling someone their beliefs are wrong is not persecution, or, if it is, it removes all meaning from the term. By your standards, I'm being persecuted if someone tells me "your Thorax sucks, get a Rupture!". Oh yes, and all those sports rivalries? Persecution. Etc.
Quote:
Personally I've made myself the black sheep of my family by rejecting their beliefs, but I still sympathize with them. The sign was obviously offensive to those that believe in a god. What if the guy was a Muslim? People here might then be defending him.
If he was a Muslim, I would be saying the exact same thing: do your job if you want your paycheck. I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand the concept of atheism: all religions are wrong, not just yours.
Quote:
Christians join the furries as the politically correct targets of today. I suppose it can't be helped, and no amount of arguing is gonna change things until the wheel turns again. Of course as my good friend Whedon points out through his character Badger, "That only matters to those on the rim."
See above. It has nothing to do with being a Christian.
And I find it absolutely hilarious that you think you're being so persecuted and that you're the easy target. What group is it that's pretty much un-electable (and in fact an accusation of membership in this group was used in an attack ad), is it Christians or atheists? Which group is something like 90% of the population? Which group is constantly reminded that 90% of the population wants them to be tortured for eternity?
Yeah, you Christians have it so hard, only being 90% of the population.... it's so horrible to have to face such terrible oppression from that evil 5%.
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Corwain
Gallente
Dark Skullz Empire
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 22:00:00 -
[116]
Sorry Sera, I'm not a Christian.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.01.20 22:05:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Corwain
Sorry Sera, I'm not a Christian.
No, you're just quoting their usual arguments. The fact that you're making them on behalf of someone else doesn't make them any more true. Feel free to replace "you" with "they" and actually address the point, or just concede that the whole "OMG UR PRESECUTING US!!!!!!!" nonsense is just stupid.
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
CCP
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Posted - 2009.01.20 22:30:00 -
[118]
Locked.
Please do not discuss religion on the forums.
Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
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