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How to get rid of Docking Games?

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Venomae Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.01.16 21:58:00 - [1] Docking Games sucks totally. It ruins empire wars totally. It ruins fights everywhere. So I propose that getting flagged would cause an automatic bump from stations force field to you. You would end up at 10-20 km from the station. In the backstory it could be explained as station close range defence system etc. Anyway, CCP, DO something about the stupid docking games. The 60 second timer isn't enough at all. As quick fix you could lift that 60 second timer to atleast 360 seconds. Enough said!
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2009.01.16 22:12:00 - [2] The bumping idea would likely cause problems, like crazy lag or getting bumped into the next system. But the timer idea is a good one. Only problem is making sure its not too restrictive. Imagine not being able to dock for 10 minutes after fighting, even if you win, or leave. You would have to make it so that if you left grid, you could than dock. This would fill the simple role of letting you dock after you fight. Make it so the dock timer starts when you fire, and gets canceled once you leave grid, or naturally it runs out. The timer would basically trap you on grid and outside the station, rendering docking games useless. This would of course only work if you return fire, but you shuold never be stopped from docking for being shot at, too easy for lag death or other such things.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.01.17 17:38:00 - [3] I think that if you take ACTIVE part in a firefight, you shouldn't be able to dock at any station for 15 minutes. You wanna fight? Man up and accept the consequences. Station peek-a-boo and "run to mommy" are exceedingly lame. I also think you shouldn't be able to pass through a gate for 3-5 minutes. These mechanics would allow a player to hide in system and then eventually run from the system, but prevent docking games. ***** tactics shouldn't be rewarded.
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.17 17:50:00 - [4] Originally by: Venomae The 60 second timer isn't enough at all. As quick fix you could lift that 60 second timer to atleast 360 seconds. I agree that 60 seconds is too short, but 360 seconds is beyond ridiculous.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.01.17 18:02:00 - [5] Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 17/01/2009 18:01:56 Originally by: Letifer Deus Originally by: Venomae The 60 second timer isn't enough at all. As quick fix you could lift that 60 second timer to atleast 360 seconds. I agree that 60 seconds is too short, but 360 seconds is beyond ridiculous. Why is 360 too long? If you decided to fire on someone and then get an "oh ****" moment, why should an npc station risk damage to save your ass?
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.17 19:00:00 - [6] yeah mae those pvp morons bleed even more!
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.01.17 19:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass These mechanics would allow a player to hide in system and then eventually run from the system, but prevent docking games. ***** tactics shouldn't be rewarded. Not supported. The knowledge that once agressed, you can't leave system or dock up for 5 minutes would mean that you couldn't hide in a system. ReconProbe CovOps would get pretty mandatory and there will be 10+ scanprobes out within seconds everywhere in the system. This in turn means you either (a) cycle safespots like a madman (b) have POS ready, moving the problem from station to forcefield (c) fly a cloaker One isn't fun gameplay, one only migitates the problem, and the other makes it worse.
Irn Bruce	Posted - 2009.01.17 20:05:00 - [8] It's definitely a problem. As are gate mechanics with the web nerf. But that's another thread. When you're at war, you're a valid target for your enemies. If you come out of a station to find people with the right to shoot you, and they start shooting you, you should not be able to just redock and get away. If you have WTs, and you undock without knowing what's out there, you lose all right to complain about losing your ship. It's very easy to set up an insta undock, so the only reason anyone should ever get caught outside a station is if they make a mistake, or aren't well enough prepared. Yes, there's the lag issue, but if lag is a problem for you, just stay away from busy systems. You can always use an alt to trade, set up courier contracts, etc. A war is supposed to disrupt your operations, you should not be able to continue as normal while at war. Any whines to that effect are totally invalid. Likewise, any whines that you don't want to fight, so you shouldn't be forced to are totally invalid. If you don't want wardecced, stay in an NPC corp. That's why they're there. If you join a player corp, it has many advantages. But it also has the risk of wardecs to balance that out. If you're in a good, balanced corp, wars won't be a problem. Every time you leave a station, you're taking a risk. However, since when you undock the timer where you ca't redock is the same length as the timer where you can't be locked, the only risk is lag, or stupidity. It used to be alright, you could always camp a gate, but since now ships are more agile, and webs are half as effective, that doesn't work without a blob either. So you have 2 choices, use a blob to camp a station and hope you can all get a volley in and one shot the WT before he can redock, Or use a blob to camp a gate and hope you can get enough webs on him to stop him being able to run back. Something definitely needs done about stations. Gates, I suppose we can live with, but stations are just being exploited left, right and centre right now. The big caldari ones with a 30km dock radius are even bump proof. I suggest that stations will not let you redock if you get warp scrambled. That way you still have a chance of escape. The undock timer runs out at the same time as the lock timer, so you still have a second or two to redock. If you've been intelligent and set up an insta, you'll be long gone by the time the timer runs out anyway, and if you really want to get away, fit stabs to be extra sure. This would also stop people deaggressing and docking during combat, because they'd have to destroy whatever's tackling them.
Rhilkal	Posted - 2009.01.17 22:11:00 - [9] How to get rid of Docking Games? REMOVE STATIONS this is the only answer
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.01.18 00:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 17/01/2009 18:01:56 Originally by: Letifer Deus Originally by: Venomae The 60 second timer isn't enough at all. As quick fix you could lift that 60 second timer to atleast 360 seconds. I agree that 60 seconds is too short, but 360 seconds is beyond ridiculous. Why is 360 too long? If you decided to fire on someone and then get an "oh ***" moment, why should an npc station risk damage to save your ass? because that is enough time for you to REALLY have to leave game for external reason. And you dont need 15 minutes to kil someone even if that someoen is in a carrier.So be more reasonable. I personnally think Docking games could say.. but made much much more dangerous :) Make each ship have a base docking time based on size. Bigger the logner. Also make this time very +- 50% randomly :) So you might want to try a dockign game. You might get lucky but you might #@!#!#$ yourself. That will make so that some people continue to try doing it but now with a chance to get those people. That will result in better pvp chances (if you just remove I dare to say those people will just try find another 100% safe way to fight)
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.01.18 00:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Mioelnir Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass These mechanics would allow a player to hide in system and then eventually run from the system, but prevent docking games. ***** tactics shouldn't be rewarded. Not supported. The knowledge that once agressed, you can't leave system or dock up for 5 minutes would mean that you couldn't hide in a system. ReconProbe CovOps would get pretty mandatory and there will be 10+ scanprobes out within seconds everywhere in the system. This in turn means you either (a) cycle safespots like a madman (b) have POS ready, moving the problem from station to forcefield (c) fly a cloaker One isn't fun gameplay, one only migitates the problem, and the other makes it worse. So don't engage 1 vs 20. People bounce safe spots or even random distances from celestial bodies as it is now. It's not exactly easy to catch someone doin that. It's a hell of a lot better then station games. If you have a pos ready, good for you, home turf advantage. Cloaks are already used this way. What's the problem? They're probably next on the nerf block anyway.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.01.18 00:43:00 - [12] Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 18/01/2009 00:45:50 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Why is 360 too long? If you decided to fire on someone and then get an "oh ****" moment, why should an npc station risk damage to save your ass? because that is enough time for you to REALLY have to leave game for external reason. And you dont need 15 minutes to kil someone even if that someoen is in a carrier.So be more reasonable. 15 isn't unreasonable. It's the current agression time limit, which refeshes every session change. People spend hours camping gates or hunting systems. I think they can wait 15 to log. Plan ahead. The point is to make combat more active, instead of taking a couple pot shots then camping a gate or station.
Irn Bruce	Posted - 2009.01.18 01:05:00 - [13] Perhaps it could be standings based. So if you have +10 with the owner of the station, you redock really fast, if your standings are lower, it takes longer. Makes sense that the station owners will let someone they really like back in to rescue them from a fight they're losing, and also makes sense that they're likely to make someone they really can't stand sit out there and die.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.01.18 01:32:00 - [14] Agreed, the idea that a station owner would allow random muppets to shoot each other at docking range is beyond ridiculous tbh.
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.18 01:35:00 - [15] Its simple, if your shot at you can't dock. If you shoot at someone u can't dock. problem solved, no more ridiculous docking games. *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation Military Tactics
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.18 01:49:00 - [16] I saw a good suggestion in another thread. Upon undocking, you should be 5km away from station heading away at full speed. Problem solved. And YES! Docking games are a problem.
Morgs44 Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams	Posted - 2009.01.18 15:08:00 - [17] It would be very hard to fix docking games. If you make it to hard to redock, the girls wont even bother having a go at ya. maybe a little bit longer? i dont know. Just hope they screw up ;-)
Kaahles n0thing Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.18 15:20:00 - [18] The solution can be so simple. Some stations have a minimal dock radius. As soon as you're out you are about 2-3 km away from it. Increase this to 5km, make it happen on all stations and there you go.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:47:00 - [19] Docking games blow. Something needs to be done.
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:33:00 - [20] /Signed Whatever the agreed upon time... 60 seconds isn't enough... increase it! To many people exploit this.
0August0 Gallente Gooch Unlimited	Posted - 2009.01.27 19:55:00 - [21] The only way I would accept this would be if they gave us the ability to see outside the station while docked. There's no way people should be forced to undock blind.
Mekala Haphitur Asteroid Belt Protection Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:11:00 - [22] Edited by: Mekala Haphitur on 27/01/2009 20:11:59 Originally by: Irn Bruce When you're at war, you're a valid target for your enemies. If you come out of a station to find people with the right to shoot you, and they start shooting you, you should not be able to just redock and get away. If you have WTs, and you undock without knowing what's out there, you lose all right to complain about losing your ship. There's this thing, you know: it's a place called lowsec. That's where you don't know in advance who's hostile and who's not. It's also the place where your idea would make station camping mindlessly easy. Your idea therefore needs refinement.
Elysarian Minmatar dudetruck corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:27:00 - [23] Originally by: 0August0 The only way I would accept this would be if they gave us the ability to see outside the station while docked. There's no way people should be forced to undock blind. Isn't this what local is for? wartarget in local? Stay in the bloody station! As for the ideas on this thread: I agree that if you fire on someone you should not be able to dock for a time - maybe disallow docking at that specific station for 24 hours due to "violation of local laws" or something? (would a real space station commander be happy about a ship sitting in it's approach path firing a bloody big gun?) Maybe, as an addition to a redock timer you could throw a local militia ship or two out to engage the agressor? This would mean that someone wanting to fight would have to do it away from NPC stations - this may also reduce the lag some experience around stations. Feel free to shoot down my ideas
John McHauler	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Elysarian Originally by: 0August0 The only way I would accept this would be if they gave us the ability to see outside the station while docked. There's no way people should be forced to undock blind. Isn't this what local is for? wartarget in local? Stay in the bloody station! As for the ideas on this thread: I agree that if you fire on someone you should not be able to dock for a time - maybe disallow docking at that specific station for 24 hours due to "violation of local laws" or something? (would a real space station commander be happy about a ship sitting in it's approach path firing a bloody big gun?) Maybe, as an addition to a redock timer you could throw a local militia ship or two out to engage the agressor? This would mean that someone wanting to fight would have to do it away from NPC stations - this may also reduce the lag some experience around stations. Feel free to shoot down my ideas To be honest, leave the timers as is, Reduce the station dock radius. ESPECIALLY ON AMARR STATIONS.
Red Raider Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:23:00 - [25] Edited by: Red Raider on 27/01/2009 21:23:38 Originally by: Elysarian Originally by: 0August0 The only way I would accept this would be if they gave us the ability to see outside the station while docked. There's no way people should be forced to undock blind. Isn't this what local is for? wartarget in local? Stay in the bloody station! That doesn't really work though. Nothing stops one guy from setting outside the station fleeted up with a herd of neutral ships that get to fire on you the second you make an aggressive move. Or the old accept an application trick for on the spot reinforcements! For every gomer jumping in and out of a station there is someone else abusing mechanics for their advantage. Thats why the solutions haven't been found to any of them. Say you looked in local and saw 40 people in system and then looked out a window and saw 20 ships piled up at the exit. This is your stomping ground and on a good day there is around 20 people at all times. One guy is bad and 19 you don't know, recognize, and are in NPC corps. You wouldn't undock unless you were stupid or had an armada of your own to back you up. So by acting like local is anything useful your forgetting those that use it to cheat death are equally offset by those who use it to kill. A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Corp Quas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.01.27 23:14:00 - [26] A perfect fix for docking games is the removal of station camping games. Please do this now. TIA.
Tai Paktu Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.01.28 02:29:00 - [27] Admittedly, docking games ground my nerves when I did empire war decs and they do the same in low sec while pirating. That having been said, /not supported in the particular 'fix' from the OP. Lengthening the timer is one thing, and one we actually talked about last night after missing a gank because of a long warp and a dock-up. That leads to a very slippery slope. 1 minute is too short, what about 2 minutes? 3, 4? Suddenly we've quadrupled the aggro timer in a pretty abitrary fashion. If the timer is to change, it changes for jumping as well and it would need extensive testing to ensure a balance between preventing docking games and preventing bait/blobs. It has to still be possible for a competent pilot in a good fit to be able to tank incoming damage within reason for the ship classes/pilots involved to be able to deaggress. Why should I have to wait 5 minutes for this guy's corpmates to come 10 jumps and gank me if he can't break my tank by himself? It makes no sense. Reducing station dock radius is another option. The Jita 4-4 model station (and most Caldari stations for that matter) has an obscene undock radius. As in, I can be 25+ km away from someone, sitting directly on the undock and still be in range of the station. Another change that would require balance and testing. It seems to me that a lot of the support or ideas in this thread are knee-jerk reactions (not all, but some). Someone just docked up on you and smacked from station, you decided to make a thread or post in one you find. The knee-jerk changes and quickly implemented "fixes" that have gone live on TQ have rarely ever fixed anything.
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.28 02:56:00 - [28] Go on an Anti-Docking Game Crusade as the Anti-Nano, Anti Falcon whiners have. Worked for Nano...only a matter of time for the Falcon...
SpawnSupreme	Posted - 2009.01.28 10:01:00 - [29] no its calld wap within 270k of station if they wont fight you then they are cowards and move on to find a real fight there is tactics to this! think if you have a few ships set up and you sit outside in apoc your enemy will come fight you well tanked with em you simply dock and fire with minmitar ships and your enemy go down fast. there are many more stratagy to this it is not nessesary to change it. learn how to play eve then come back to forums. a station is not and should not be a place for combat! if combat goes to a station so be it but to expect or start a fight at station should be to the advantage of the player who call that station home! if you both call it home then the players not willing to leave station safty they fail! what i would like to see is much like kill mail you can get coward mail! and pilot disengageing a fight to dock shold be on a coward mail! and this would have point value and a link between kill and coward post. you notice your enemy on coward mail alot you know your possibly wasting your time so warp away and know you win by default. why does one have to lose a ship to determin victory?
Seishi Maru Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.01.28 10:30:00 - [30] The timmer needs to go up but 15 minutes is not OK. People must remember that dockign games i not the only instance when people need to dock after combat. Example. I undock get in a fight near station go for it and KILL the other guy. But I am very damaged... now I can't undock for 15 minutes, enough time for that guy refit a new ship come and kill me. This will just make things worse. Why woudl I even start to fight when the mechanics almost make me sure to eventually die? You could kill someone with a continuous wave of t1 cruisers because everytime you restarted to fight that guy counter woudl reset. no. 15 minutes is DUMB. Timmer should be related to ship size and 5 minutes is enough to kill ANYTHING. Even a carrier will go down in 5 minutes if you have a reasonable gang (you should not be hunting carriers solo)

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