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Shia Dai
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Posted - 2004.07.30 02:43:00 -
[1]
MWDs need to be changed so that you can only fit one per ship. Right now the dual MWD is waaayyyy overpowered, there are many reasons why this is true, but the biggest reason is that the second MWD gives you a FAR better bonus than the first one since their effects stack instead of add.
Also afterburners need to be fixed so they only fit on the ship of its class. i.e., 10mn only fits to cruisers, 100mn only to battleships. It isn't right that frigs can get about the same speed boost as a mwd by fitting a 10mn afterburner, and completely avoid the associated penalties especially the signature radius.
Honestly there needs to be an agility penalty to MWDs instead of the shield and cap -25%. Those are the dumbest things ever.
Shia
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Shia Dai
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Posted - 2004.07.30 02:43:00 -
[2]
MWDs need to be changed so that you can only fit one per ship. Right now the dual MWD is waaayyyy overpowered, there are many reasons why this is true, but the biggest reason is that the second MWD gives you a FAR better bonus than the first one since their effects stack instead of add.
Also afterburners need to be fixed so they only fit on the ship of its class. i.e., 10mn only fits to cruisers, 100mn only to battleships. It isn't right that frigs can get about the same speed boost as a mwd by fitting a 10mn afterburner, and completely avoid the associated penalties especially the signature radius.
Honestly there needs to be an agility penalty to MWDs instead of the shield and cap -25%. Those are the dumbest things ever.
Shia
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.07.30 02:50:00 -
[3]
I disagree.
Stacked MWD ships also make a lot of sacrifices, and if one gets caught by a webber, it's screwed six ways from Sunday. That aside, multiple MWDs are also used outside PVP... I know my Badger couldn't live without them for example, and running missions sure is quick in a dual MWD battleship. Screaming for a nerf because you can't handle a specific ship setup without thinking of the repercussions elsewhere = bad.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.07.30 02:50:00 -
[4]
I disagree.
Stacked MWD ships also make a lot of sacrifices, and if one gets caught by a webber, it's screwed six ways from Sunday. That aside, multiple MWDs are also used outside PVP... I know my Badger couldn't live without them for example, and running missions sure is quick in a dual MWD battleship. Screaming for a nerf because you can't handle a specific ship setup without thinking of the repercussions elsewhere = bad.
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Cocko
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Posted - 2004.07.30 02:59:00 -
[5]
mwds give sig radius to that of a battleship :x
unless i was misinformed/misread the sigradius 500 on the info :)
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Cocko
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Posted - 2004.07.30 02:59:00 -
[6]
mwds give sig radius to that of a battleship :x
unless i was misinformed/misread the sigradius 500 on the info :)
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Raedon
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:02:00 -
[7]
I also disagree.
I have used a number of 2xMWD ships for supply runs but so far I have not found it possible to use them in a fight (although I have heard that there have recently been some BS that can use them well).
The game allows for us to use the modules as we see fit. If only 1xMWD limit was introduced game play variety would certainly be decreased. If someone is using 2xMWD, then you have to alter your fitting to perhaps include 2xWebifiers. I think you'd find that they'll go down pretty quick.
As for the 10MN AB fitted to frigates, Although this works well, it has a very severe affect on what guns / mods may be fitted to your frigate. Most of the tier 3 frigates have 3 mid slots. This allows for 2x1MN Named ABs and say a Tech II Shield. With skills, you should be able to get a little over 225% speed as opposed to about 437.5% speed with 1x10MN AB.
This fits easier (in terms of powergrid), uses less cap, makes you just about as hard to hit (in an interceptor, anyway), allows you to fit more damage mods instead of Power Cores and if you have room, perhaps fit an armor repairer.
How exactly are multiple MWD "waaayyyy overpowered"? You state that you get a far better bonus but why is this a problem? If it is so good, why don't you use it? If you can't kill people who do use it, perhaps you need to kit your ship out differently?
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Raedon
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:02:00 -
[8]
I also disagree.
I have used a number of 2xMWD ships for supply runs but so far I have not found it possible to use them in a fight (although I have heard that there have recently been some BS that can use them well).
The game allows for us to use the modules as we see fit. If only 1xMWD limit was introduced game play variety would certainly be decreased. If someone is using 2xMWD, then you have to alter your fitting to perhaps include 2xWebifiers. I think you'd find that they'll go down pretty quick.
As for the 10MN AB fitted to frigates, Although this works well, it has a very severe affect on what guns / mods may be fitted to your frigate. Most of the tier 3 frigates have 3 mid slots. This allows for 2x1MN Named ABs and say a Tech II Shield. With skills, you should be able to get a little over 225% speed as opposed to about 437.5% speed with 1x10MN AB.
This fits easier (in terms of powergrid), uses less cap, makes you just about as hard to hit (in an interceptor, anyway), allows you to fit more damage mods instead of Power Cores and if you have room, perhaps fit an armor repairer.
How exactly are multiple MWD "waaayyyy overpowered"? You state that you get a far better bonus but why is this a problem? If it is so good, why don't you use it? If you can't kill people who do use it, perhaps you need to kit your ship out differently?
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:07:00 -
[9]
duel MWD frigates are great scouts, however they lack firepower, and it takes 2 webs to catch em, as a normal web will bring down a duel MWD vigil to about 4200 m/s. If there wasn't a 25% cap reduction what's to stop someone from sticking 4 MWD's on a ship and doing 700k a sec? Not that you'd really need that speed. But it would be cool.
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Boonaki
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:07:00 -
[10]
duel MWD frigates are great scouts, however they lack firepower, and it takes 2 webs to catch em, as a normal web will bring down a duel MWD vigil to about 4200 m/s. If there wasn't a 25% cap reduction what's to stop someone from sticking 4 MWD's on a ship and doing 700k a sec? Not that you'd really need that speed. But it would be cool.
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:08:00 -
[11]
I also disagree .. I also disagree about the sig increase in the first place with MWDs.. Sure it might be easier to lock someone using an MWD but how can it be easier to hit when its flying a lot faster?
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:08:00 -
[12]
I also disagree .. I also disagree about the sig increase in the first place with MWDs.. Sure it might be easier to lock someone using an MWD but how can it be easier to hit when its flying a lot faster?
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:20:00 -
[13]
 Originally by: Cocko
mwds give sig radius to that of a battleship :x
unless i was misinformed/misread the sigradius 500 on the info :)
It gives 500% if I remember correctly, which on an interceptor would be 5x its current (about 20) so it would only bea bout 100...
That being said, a dual mwd would only be about 500, and its speed negates that sig radius increase...Have you tried to shoot something moving 35km/sec? By the time you get a lock hes 280km away.
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cocko
mwds give sig radius to that of a battleship :x
unless i was misinformed/misread the sigradius 500 on the info :)
It gives 500% if I remember correctly, which on an interceptor would be 5x its current (about 20) so it would only bea bout 100...
That being said, a dual mwd would only be about 500, and its speed negates that sig radius increase...Have you tried to shoot something moving 35km/sec? By the time you get a lock hes 280km away.
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shia Dai
MWDs need to be changed so that you can only fit one per ship. Right now the dual MWD is waaayyyy overpowered, there are many reasons why this is true, but the biggest reason is that the second MWD gives you a FAR better bonus than the first one since their effects stack instead of add.
Also afterburners need to be fixed so they only fit on the ship of its class. i.e., 10mn only fits to cruisers, 100mn only to battleships. It isn't right that frigs can get about the same speed boost as a mwd by fitting a 10mn afterburner, and completely avoid the associated penalties especially the signature radius.
Honestly there needs to be an agility penalty to MWDs instead of the shield and cap -25%. Those are the dumbest things ever.
Shia
Ruining your gate camping / pwning fun is it?
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shia Dai
MWDs need to be changed so that you can only fit one per ship. Right now the dual MWD is waaayyyy overpowered, there are many reasons why this is true, but the biggest reason is that the second MWD gives you a FAR better bonus than the first one since their effects stack instead of add.
Also afterburners need to be fixed so they only fit on the ship of its class. i.e., 10mn only fits to cruisers, 100mn only to battleships. It isn't right that frigs can get about the same speed boost as a mwd by fitting a 10mn afterburner, and completely avoid the associated penalties especially the signature radius.
Honestly there needs to be an agility penalty to MWDs instead of the shield and cap -25%. Those are the dumbest things ever.
Shia
Ruining your gate camping / pwning fun is it?
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Boonaki
duel MWD frigates are great scouts, however they lack firepower, and it takes 2 webs to catch em, as a normal web will bring down a duel MWD vigil to about 4200 m/s. If there wasn't a 25% cap reduction what's to stop someone from sticking 4 MWD's on a ship and doing 700k a sec? Not that you'd really need that speed. But it would be cool.
Never could get anything worth a p** on a dual wmd frigate...
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2004.07.30 04:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Boonaki
duel MWD frigates are great scouts, however they lack firepower, and it takes 2 webs to catch em, as a normal web will bring down a duel MWD vigil to about 4200 m/s. If there wasn't a 25% cap reduction what's to stop someone from sticking 4 MWD's on a ship and doing 700k a sec? Not that you'd really need that speed. But it would be cool.
Never could get anything worth a p** on a dual wmd frigate...
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2004.07.30 05:08:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Isonkon Serikain on 30/07/2004 05:12:59
Forgive me if this seems offensive, but this sounds like it came from another disgruntled pirate lobbying for an easier life...
Keep your chin up my friendand your spirits high(like myself at the moment), soon there will be tons of easy game out there for you to prey on, no need to nerf mwd's, wait for all the shiva noobs and their shiny new ships.
Perhaps well meet at the opposite ends of a gun barrel. UNtil then, tata.
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2004.07.30 05:08:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Isonkon Serikain on 30/07/2004 05:12:59
Forgive me if this seems offensive, but this sounds like it came from another disgruntled pirate lobbying for an easier life...
Keep your chin up my friendand your spirits high(like myself at the moment), soon there will be tons of easy game out there for you to prey on, no need to nerf mwd's, wait for all the shiva noobs and their shiny new ships.
Perhaps well meet at the opposite ends of a gun barrel. UNtil then, tata.
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Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.07.30 06:43:00 -
[21]
a dual mwd ship IS nearly impossible to kill... by the time you have the webbers on him, hes 50k away. and if you yourself hav 2 mwd to catch him and fit 2 webs, you'll slingshot past him when hes webbed. that being said... its almost nearly impossible for a 2mwd setup too kill you. 2 mwd give a 44% cap nerf, a 44% shield nerf. ok, a 2 mwd raven could launch 6 torps in a flyby.. but how long can a raven with only 56% of its original cap sustain those mwd? 2 pulses? 3? and if caught, how long could he hold out? with a 150 base speed and 2 quad lifs he could fly at most probably 120km before his cap ran out. i dont see what the issue is.
btw, if they remove the 2 mwd, a bone has to be thrown to us safespot hunters. its already hard enough.. and flying 100000km with a single mwd would be absolutely sucky.
its too bad i never got a mwd before they classed it.. never got to feel the glory of several thousand k per second for 1 or 2 pulses :(
My Idea Thread
Give Drones Love! |
Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.07.30 06:43:00 -
[22]
a dual mwd ship IS nearly impossible to kill... by the time you have the webbers on him, hes 50k away. and if you yourself hav 2 mwd to catch him and fit 2 webs, you'll slingshot past him when hes webbed. that being said... its almost nearly impossible for a 2mwd setup too kill you. 2 mwd give a 44% cap nerf, a 44% shield nerf. ok, a 2 mwd raven could launch 6 torps in a flyby.. but how long can a raven with only 56% of its original cap sustain those mwd? 2 pulses? 3? and if caught, how long could he hold out? with a 150 base speed and 2 quad lifs he could fly at most probably 120km before his cap ran out. i dont see what the issue is.
btw, if they remove the 2 mwd, a bone has to be thrown to us safespot hunters. its already hard enough.. and flying 100000km with a single mwd would be absolutely sucky.
its too bad i never got a mwd before they classed it.. never got to feel the glory of several thousand k per second for 1 or 2 pulses :(
My Idea Thread
Give Drones Love! |
Heelay Ashrum
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Posted - 2004.07.30 06:59:00 -
[23]
Probably it's impossible to kill, but it's also true that it's impossible that he can kill u, so where is the problem? 
Using 2 mwd realy ruin your setup and make a BS almost useles exept for running.
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Heelay Ashrum
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Posted - 2004.07.30 06:59:00 -
[24]
Probably it's impossible to kill, but it's also true that it's impossible that he can kill u, so where is the problem?
Using 2 mwd realy ruin your setup and make a BS almost useles exept for running.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.07.30 06:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 30/07/2004 07:01:52
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
I also disagree .. I also disagree about the sig increase in the first place with MWDs.. Sure it might be easier to lock someone using an MWD but how can it be easier to hit when its flying a lot faster?
It doesn't make you easier to hit. The 500% sig. radius increase is nullified by your 500% increase in speed.
The sig. radius increase just places more focus on frigate pilots to fly smart - if you're using MWD towards someone in a straight line you're gonna go boom.
If you're MWD'ing at 10km range and 2km/s speed you're not going to get hit with pretty much ANY gun out there.
I don't mind dual-mwd'd b-ships but it's a cowards way of taking on indies/frigates. If you wanna kill indies you should be using a frigate yourself......
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.07.30 06:59:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 30/07/2004 07:01:52
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
I also disagree .. I also disagree about the sig increase in the first place with MWDs.. Sure it might be easier to lock someone using an MWD but how can it be easier to hit when its flying a lot faster?
It doesn't make you easier to hit. The 500% sig. radius increase is nullified by your 500% increase in speed.
The sig. radius increase just places more focus on frigate pilots to fly smart - if you're using MWD towards someone in a straight line you're gonna go boom.
If you're MWD'ing at 10km range and 2km/s speed you're not going to get hit with pretty much ANY gun out there.
I don't mind dual-mwd'd b-ships but it's a cowards way of taking on indies/frigates. If you wanna kill indies you should be using a frigate yourself......
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
meowcat
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:37:00 -
[27]
fine, but only when you add 100 more entry opints into 0.0
right now dual MWD is the only way i can get in |
meowcat
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:37:00 -
[28]
fine, but only when you add 100 more entry opints into 0.0
right now dual MWD is the only way i can get in |
Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Heelay Ashrum
Probably it's impossible to kill, but it's also true that it's impossible that he can kill u, so where is the problem?
Using 2 mwd realy ruin your setup and make a BS almost useles exept for running.
Right. Some use no mwd at all, making a battleship a battleship and not a "phat cruiser". Some use 2 mwd and sacrifice combat/defense capability - so, no problem at all.
Instead, I hear again someone whining to remove another "lame tactics" to avoid fighting on that someones terms. Buy a game with insta-kills and uber-loot, l33t, or learn to counter double-mwds.
____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Heelay Ashrum
Probably it's impossible to kill, but it's also true that it's impossible that he can kill u, so where is the problem?
Using 2 mwd realy ruin your setup and make a BS almost useles exept for running.
Right. Some use no mwd at all, making a battleship a battleship and not a "phat cruiser". Some use 2 mwd and sacrifice combat/defense capability - so, no problem at all.
Instead, I hear again someone whining to remove another "lame tactics" to avoid fighting on that someones terms. Buy a game with insta-kills and uber-loot, l33t, or learn to counter double-mwds.
____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
Liz Bathory
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:48:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Liz Bathory on 30/07/2004 11:01:21
you also might want to think now nerfing the oversized ab completely nerfs the possibility of making a living in an inty any way but as a high speed, high risk courier
inties can't mine
inties can;t tank well enough toi take a misslespamming spawn, without their speed
and if they use a 1mn mwd to get the speed, then the frigates will shred you with guns as id you were standing still
*edited for typo's triggering the aggressive word filter*
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Liz Bathory
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:48:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Liz Bathory on 30/07/2004 11:01:21
you also might want to think now nerfing the oversized ab completely nerfs the possibility of making a living in an inty any way but as a high speed, high risk courier
inties can't mine
inties can;t tank well enough toi take a misslespamming spawn, without their speed
and if they use a 1mn mwd to get the speed, then the frigates will shred you with guns as id you were standing still
*edited for typo's triggering the aggressive word filter*
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:02:00 -
[33]
old topic, just fixing it so the boni stack logically instead of exponentially would do it better imo
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:02:00 -
[34]
old topic, just fixing it so the boni stack logically instead of exponentially would do it better imo
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Meridius
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Liz Bathory
you also might want to think now nerfing the oversized ab completely nerfs the ****ibility of making a living in an inty any way but as a high speed, high risk courier
inties can't mine
inties can;t tank well enough toi take a misslespamming spawn, without their speed
and if they use a 1mn mwd to get the speed, then the frigates will shred you with guns as id you were standing still
Since when is an interceptor meant as a means to make a living in eve?
It's a frikkin glorified frigate, you're not suppose to be taking out battleship/cruiser spawns in it. If you can at all be happy and hush.
________________________________________________________
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Meridius
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Liz Bathory
you also might want to think now nerfing the oversized ab completely nerfs the ****ibility of making a living in an inty any way but as a high speed, high risk courier
inties can't mine
inties can;t tank well enough toi take a misslespamming spawn, without their speed
and if they use a 1mn mwd to get the speed, then the frigates will shred you with guns as id you were standing still
Since when is an interceptor meant as a means to make a living in eve?
It's a frikkin glorified frigate, you're not suppose to be taking out battleship/cruiser spawns in it. If you can at all be happy and hush.
________________________________________________________
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:46:00 -
[37]
New show on primetime: When Pirates Cry
I'm in good company - leave MWD's and AB's alone... they've already been mucked with enough.
Bottom line:
*2x MWD destroys any offensive/defensive capabilities on any ship
*Oversized AB's severely limit offensive/defensive capabilities in any ship
Nobody cries that they get ganked by 2x MWD ships or ovesize AB's, all you ever hear is "YOU CAN'T HIT THEM!!!" Well smarty, you're not supposed to, and they're not hitting you either, so STFU! You don't like that people are blasting past your gank parties? Tough - figure out way way counter it yourself instead of crying to the devs...
Hint: Disco-geddons will do it
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:46:00 -
[38]
New show on primetime: When Pirates Cry
I'm in good company - leave MWD's and AB's alone... they've already been mucked with enough.
Bottom line:
*2x MWD destroys any offensive/defensive capabilities on any ship
*Oversized AB's severely limit offensive/defensive capabilities in any ship
Nobody cries that they get ganked by 2x MWD ships or ovesize AB's, all you ever hear is "YOU CAN'T HIT THEM!!!" Well smarty, you're not supposed to, and they're not hitting you either, so STFU! You don't like that people are blasting past your gank parties? Tough - figure out way way counter it yourself instead of crying to the devs...
Hint: Disco-geddons will do it
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 30/07/2004 07:01:52
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
I also disagree .. I also disagree about the sig increase in the first place with MWDs.. Sure it might be easier to lock someone using an MWD but how can it be easier to hit when its flying a lot faster?
It doesn't make you easier to hit. The 500% sig. radius increase is nullified by your 500% increase in speed.
The sig. radius increase just places more focus on frigate pilots to fly smart - if you're using MWD towards someone in a straight line you're gonna go boom.
If you're MWD'ing at 10km range and 2km/s speed you're not going to get hit with pretty much ANY gun out there.
I don't mind dual-mwd'd b-ships but it's a cowards way of taking on indies/frigates. If you wanna kill indies you should be using a frigate yourself......
Webify, have friend shoot at frigate, Nosferatu ... arguing with you starts almost getting funny ... almost. Tiring also a bit
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.07.30 08:54:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 30/07/2004 07:01:52
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
I also disagree .. I also disagree about the sig increase in the first place with MWDs.. Sure it might be easier to lock someone using an MWD but how can it be easier to hit when its flying a lot faster?
It doesn't make you easier to hit. The 500% sig. radius increase is nullified by your 500% increase in speed.
The sig. radius increase just places more focus on frigate pilots to fly smart - if you're using MWD towards someone in a straight line you're gonna go boom.
If you're MWD'ing at 10km range and 2km/s speed you're not going to get hit with pretty much ANY gun out there.
I don't mind dual-mwd'd b-ships but it's a cowards way of taking on indies/frigates. If you wanna kill indies you should be using a frigate yourself......
Webify, have friend shoot at frigate, Nosferatu ... arguing with you starts almost getting funny ... almost. Tiring also a bit
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.07.30 09:01:00 -
[41]
I dont understand the point of the sig radius nerf on the MWDs. It was only implemented because the tracking formulas are too primitive to know that you dont need good tracking to hit something heading right towards you. Its also too primitive to know that its easier to hit something when its close to you. Right now guns will miss at close ranges even if the target is a damn station or battleship! Battleship and Cruiser guns should NEVER miss at short range against ships equal or greater size, its literally like shooting at the ground and missing. I'd really like my battleship guns to be able to broadside shoot an enemy battleship moving paralell to me at close range...
Doh, I'm off topic.
But the mwd nerf doesnt even make sense. It was done for a good reason, but it just doesnt make any sense. When moving at those speeds you should be hard to hit - but it would need a different kind of penalty to replace it. The MWD nerf only really hurts cruisers and battleships.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.07.30 09:01:00 -
[42]
I dont understand the point of the sig radius nerf on the MWDs. It was only implemented because the tracking formulas are too primitive to know that you dont need good tracking to hit something heading right towards you. Its also too primitive to know that its easier to hit something when its close to you. Right now guns will miss at close ranges even if the target is a damn station or battleship! Battleship and Cruiser guns should NEVER miss at short range against ships equal or greater size, its literally like shooting at the ground and missing. I'd really like my battleship guns to be able to broadside shoot an enemy battleship moving paralell to me at close range...
Doh, I'm off topic.
But the mwd nerf doesnt even make sense. It was done for a good reason, but it just doesnt make any sense. When moving at those speeds you should be hard to hit - but it would need a different kind of penalty to replace it. The MWD nerf only really hurts cruisers and battleships.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.07.30 09:02:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Def Antares
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 30/07/2004 07:01:52
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
I also disagree .. I also disagree about the sig increase in the first place with MWDs.. Sure it might be easier to lock someone using an MWD but how can it be easier to hit when its flying a lot faster?
It doesn't make you easier to hit. The 500% sig. radius increase is nullified by your 500% increase in speed.
The sig. radius increase just places more focus on frigate pilots to fly smart - if you're using MWD towards someone in a straight line you're gonna go boom.
If you're MWD'ing at 10km range and 2km/s speed you're not going to get hit with pretty much ANY gun out there.
I don't mind dual-mwd'd b-ships but it's a cowards way of taking on indies/frigates. If you wanna kill indies you should be using a frigate yourself......
Webify, have friend shoot at frigate, Nosferatu ... arguing with you starts almost getting funny ... almost. Tiring also a bit
All frigs die when webified - that's the whole point of fitting one.
Now, what was your ******* point again?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 09:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Def Antares
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 30/07/2004 07:01:52
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
I also disagree .. I also disagree about the sig increase in the first place with MWDs.. Sure it might be easier to lock someone using an MWD but how can it be easier to hit when its flying a lot faster?
It doesn't make you easier to hit. The 500% sig. radius increase is nullified by your 500% increase in speed.
The sig. radius increase just places more focus on frigate pilots to fly smart - if you're using MWD towards someone in a straight line you're gonna go boom.
If you're MWD'ing at 10km range and 2km/s speed you're not going to get hit with pretty much ANY gun out there.
I don't mind dual-mwd'd b-ships but it's a cowards way of taking on indies/frigates. If you wanna kill indies you should be using a frigate yourself......
Webify, have friend shoot at frigate, Nosferatu ... arguing with you starts almost getting funny ... almost. Tiring also a bit
All frigs die when webified - that's the whole point of fitting one.
Now, what was your ******* point again?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Latex Mistress
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 09:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Selim
The MWD nerf only really hurts cruisers and battleships.
I disagree, Selim.
The Sig multiplier may not matter much, but wouldn't you agree that losing 25% of your shields and cap affects every ship, including frigs? Sure, cruisers and BS's have more to lose, but they also have much more variety of offensive/defensive capabilities.
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
|
Latex Mistress
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 09:17:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Selim
The MWD nerf only really hurts cruisers and battleships.
I disagree, Selim.
The Sig multiplier may not matter much, but wouldn't you agree that losing 25% of your shields and cap affects every ship, including frigs? Sure, cruisers and BS's have more to lose, but they also have much more variety of offensive/defensive capabilities.
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
|
Selim
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 09:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Latex Mistress
Originally by: Selim
The MWD nerf only really hurts cruisers and battleships.
I disagree, Selim.
The Sig multiplier may not matter much, but wouldn't you agree that losing 25% of your shields and cap affects every ship, including frigs? Sure, cruisers and BS's have more to lose, but they also have much more variety of offensive/defensive capabilities.
A frig properly set up will almost never have to worry about capacitor. Shields are of no consequence when you're trying not to get hit. And you will be moving so fast, that if you fly carefully, the sig radius increase will mean nothing. For Cruisers and Battleships, its different. They rely on a large capacitor storage to last through a battle, rather than a recharge time that will let it run forever. Most battleships are tanked, and some cruisers are. They definitely need their shield and capacitor strength to tank. A frig just dodges everything... while a battleship with MWD is one huge neon sign saying 'kill me!'
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Selim
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 09:24:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Latex Mistress
Originally by: Selim
The MWD nerf only really hurts cruisers and battleships.
I disagree, Selim.
The Sig multiplier may not matter much, but wouldn't you agree that losing 25% of your shields and cap affects every ship, including frigs? Sure, cruisers and BS's have more to lose, but they also have much more variety of offensive/defensive capabilities.
A frig properly set up will almost never have to worry about capacitor. Shields are of no consequence when you're trying not to get hit. And you will be moving so fast, that if you fly carefully, the sig radius increase will mean nothing. For Cruisers and Battleships, its different. They rely on a large capacitor storage to last through a battle, rather than a recharge time that will let it run forever. Most battleships are tanked, and some cruisers are. They definitely need their shield and capacitor strength to tank. A frig just dodges everything... while a battleship with MWD is one huge neon sign saying 'kill me!'
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Latex Mistress
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 09:27:00 -
[49]
Good points! 
I suppose I have to learn a few things about frig/inty setups, because I have a bad habit of pushing the cap to the limit all too often... 
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
|
Latex Mistress
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 09:27:00 -
[50]
Good points!
I suppose I have to learn a few things about frig/inty setups, because I have a bad habit of pushing the cap to the limit all too often...
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
|
Cherok
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 10:56:00 -
[51]
I say you should get suspenders so when my Blockade running BS zooms by you, you can keep your panties on.
nuff said. Leave mwds alone. Adapt your setup to stop it.
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Cherok
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 10:56:00 -
[52]
I say you should get suspenders so when my Blockade running BS zooms by you, you can keep your panties on.
nuff said. Leave mwds alone. Adapt your setup to stop it.
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Valeria
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Posted - 2004.07.30 11:04:00 -
[53]
Limiting MWDs to one fitted would solve alot of problems in the world (Can still increase your speed with additional ABs, Overdrives etc.) but has been brought up many times and CCP is not willing to change it.
But they are willing to multiply the powergrids of ships and ALL modules just to get rid of 10mn/100mb ABs on frigates/cruisers!  They could just add a stat to the modules that limit them to a ship class.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Valeria
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 11:04:00 -
[54]
Limiting MWDs to one fitted would solve alot of problems in the world (Can still increase your speed with additional ABs, Overdrives etc.) but has been brought up many times and CCP is not willing to change it.
But they are willing to multiply the powergrids of ships and ALL modules just to get rid of 10mn/100mb ABs on frigates/cruisers! They could just add a stat to the modules that limit them to a ship class.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Cobracure
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 11:24:00 -
[55]
Please dont alter AB or MWD settings.
Courier missions are only bearable with using 2x MWD.
I also reckon its gate camping pirates moaning they cant hit them.
Well tough - youre already blocking half of eve space off from 95% of players. Get a mobile warp disruptor in place or something.
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Cobracure
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 11:24:00 -
[56]
Please dont alter AB or MWD settings.
Courier missions are only bearable with using 2x MWD.
I also reckon its gate camping pirates moaning they cant hit them.
Well tough - youre already blocking half of eve space off from 95% of players. Get a mobile warp disruptor in place or something.
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.07.30 11:49:00 -
[57]
Its not just pirating, you ever try to fight a dual mwd frigate?
Sits above the station watching you...knowing everything you do. If you mount any sort of offensive he gets out of the way...quick.
Gets annoying :O
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Hamatitio
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 11:49:00 -
[58]
Its not just pirating, you ever try to fight a dual mwd frigate?
Sits above the station watching you...knowing everything you do. If you mount any sort of offensive he gets out of the way...quick.
Gets annoying :O
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Lao Tzu
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 11:55:00 -
[59]
Selim, good to se your keeping up to JF standards when it comes to combat knowlage
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Lao Tzu
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 11:55:00 -
[60]
Selim, good to se your keeping up to JF standards when it comes to combat knowlage
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Moah
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 18:54:00 -
[61]
Just remove the ability to fitt bs size ab / cruiser size ab on cruiser / frigs...
Fancy. |
Moah
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 18:54:00 -
[62]
Just remove the ability to fitt bs size ab / cruiser size ab on cruiser / frigs...
Fancy. |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 19:07:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Shia Dai
MWDs need to be changed so that you can only fit one per ship. Right now the dual MWD is waaayyyy overpowered, there are many reasons why this is true, but the biggest reason is that the second MWD gives you a FAR better bonus than the first one since their effects stack instead of add.
Also afterburners need to be fixed so they only fit on the ship of its class. i.e., 10mn only fits to cruisers, 100mn only to battleships. It isn't right that frigs can get about the same speed boost as a mwd by fitting a 10mn afterburner, and completely avoid the associated penalties especially the signature radius.
Honestly there needs to be an agility penalty to MWDs instead of the shield and cap -25%. Those are the dumbest things ever.
Shia
Two mwd ships are also the easiest thing in the world to hit. And well drop easily if they actually try to fight.
Agreed, but afaik that's being worked on. check patch review for a thread on it.
The cap and shield penalty do a great job at seriously limiting your combat ability when running several mwds, and the sig radius thing makes it so your speed won't make you immune to anything anyone can throw at you.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 19:07:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Shia Dai
MWDs need to be changed so that you can only fit one per ship. Right now the dual MWD is waaayyyy overpowered, there are many reasons why this is true, but the biggest reason is that the second MWD gives you a FAR better bonus than the first one since their effects stack instead of add.
Also afterburners need to be fixed so they only fit on the ship of its class. i.e., 10mn only fits to cruisers, 100mn only to battleships. It isn't right that frigs can get about the same speed boost as a mwd by fitting a 10mn afterburner, and completely avoid the associated penalties especially the signature radius.
Honestly there needs to be an agility penalty to MWDs instead of the shield and cap -25%. Those are the dumbest things ever.
Shia
Two mwd ships are also the easiest thing in the world to hit. And well drop easily if they actually try to fight.
Agreed, but afaik that's being worked on. check patch review for a thread on it.
The cap and shield penalty do a great job at seriously limiting your combat ability when running several mwds, and the sig radius thing makes it so your speed won't make you immune to anything anyone can throw at you.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
fairimear
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 19:48:00 -
[65]
only thing to say is why should a frig let u gank them, with 2 mwd u cant do much else but zoooooom.
poor pirates.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
|
fairimear
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 19:48:00 -
[66]
only thing to say is why should a frig let u gank them, with 2 mwd u cant do much else but zoooooom.
poor pirates.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
|
EzeikaL
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 20:01:00 -
[67]
Edited by: EzeikaL on 30/07/2004 20:07:29
Edited by: EzeikaL on 30/07/2004 20:05:13
Yesterday thought I would try something out. I Put a Quad Lif on my moa. Base grid of 900 with some rcu 1's i could fit the quad lif(1250 grid). Only went 10km/s though 
To crush your enemies,
See them driven before you,
Hear the lamentation of their women!
|
EzeikaL
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 20:01:00 -
[68]
Edited by: EzeikaL on 30/07/2004 20:07:29
Edited by: EzeikaL on 30/07/2004 20:05:13
Yesterday thought I would try something out. I Put a Quad Lif on my moa. Base grid of 900 with some rcu 1's i could fit the quad lif(1250 grid). Only went 10km/s though
To crush your enemies,
See them driven before you,
Hear the lamentation of their women!
|
Baronn Creel
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 20:02:00 -
[69]
*ahem*
I actually think MWDs should be totally removed from the game.
Now before everyone gets all mad at me, just hear this out.
Yes, I know that not having an MWD would make travel in EVE even more unbearable. To fix this, I have another idea.
Increase the base speed of EVERY SHIP by a multiple of 4 or 5.
Gates get much closer. Stations get much closer. NPC rat droppings get closer. Indies get to cans faster, etc etc
MWDs are just too abusable now. I mean, no BS should go faster than a frigate...EVER. Yes it is easier to kill if it does, but it can still mount 1 or 2 large guns or whatever..its too fast and packs too much punch...speed is the defense in this case.
ABs would still be available. But 35% is not 500%. It would not boost a ships speed out of its class...
No flaming please...just an honest opinion...
Lt. JG Baronn Creel Combat Support
"This is my weapon, this is my gun. This is for killing, this is for fun" |
Baronn Creel
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 20:02:00 -
[70]
*ahem*
I actually think MWDs should be totally removed from the game.
Now before everyone gets all mad at me, just hear this out.
Yes, I know that not having an MWD would make travel in EVE even more unbearable. To fix this, I have another idea.
Increase the base speed of EVERY SHIP by a multiple of 4 or 5.
Gates get much closer. Stations get much closer. NPC rat droppings get closer. Indies get to cans faster, etc etc
MWDs are just too abusable now. I mean, no BS should go faster than a frigate...EVER. Yes it is easier to kill if it does, but it can still mount 1 or 2 large guns or whatever..its too fast and packs too much punch...speed is the defense in this case.
ABs would still be available. But 35% is not 500%. It would not boost a ships speed out of its class...
No flaming please...just an honest opinion...
Lt. JG Baronn Creel Combat Support
"This is my weapon, this is my gun. This is for killing, this is for fun" |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 20:25:00 -
[71]
Why do people never think about the short rangers, without a mwd short range would be impossible.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 20:25:00 -
[72]
Why do people never think about the short rangers, without a mwd short range would be impossible.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
InnerDrive
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 21:33:00 -
[73]
its all good fun imo.
love how my apoc go's 27 Km/s with 3 mwds and a lif fueled booster 100 mn afterburner.
|
InnerDrive
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 21:33:00 -
[74]
its all good fun imo.
love how my apoc go's 27 Km/s with 3 mwds and a lif fueled booster 100 mn afterburner.
|
Shamis Orzoz
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 23:10:00 -
[75]
Dual MWD's are not overpowered. I had a high speed apoc that was orbiting another apoc using lasers and my apoc got torn to pieces in seconds, even though my speed never dropped below 3500 m/s. This happened because my signature radius was the size of a freakin space station...
You should be able to use anything you can fit to your ship. High speed cruisers and bs's have to sacrifice a lot of offense or defense to move quickly. Cap drainers, webbers and turrets will quickly end them.
Dual MWD frigs are tough to kill, but they aren't good for much other than warp scrambling, and once they get into scramble range you can just hit them with a large nosferatu and shoot a couple cruise missles at them...game over.
|
Shamis Orzoz
|
Posted - 2004.07.30 23:10:00 -
[76]
Dual MWD's are not overpowered. I had a high speed apoc that was orbiting another apoc using lasers and my apoc got torn to pieces in seconds, even though my speed never dropped below 3500 m/s. This happened because my signature radius was the size of a freakin space station...
You should be able to use anything you can fit to your ship. High speed cruisers and bs's have to sacrifice a lot of offense or defense to move quickly. Cap drainers, webbers and turrets will quickly end them.
Dual MWD frigs are tough to kill, but they aren't good for much other than warp scrambling, and once they get into scramble range you can just hit them with a large nosferatu and shoot a couple cruise missles at them...game over.
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