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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
163
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Posted - 2012.04.19 22:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
I think the main point of this is that right now you cannot really interfere with an enemies cyno logistics chain since they can use any low sec station that is not a kickout. This way people will be forced to risk it and light a cyno in a safespot or light cynos on POSs and those are attack-able.
Good luck getting CCP to realize this. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
35
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 23:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:I think the main point of this is that right now you cannot really interfere with an enemies cyno logistics chain since they can use any low sec station that is not a kickout. This way people will be forced to risk it and light a cyno in a safespot or light cynos on POSs and those are attack-able.
Good luck getting CCP to realize this.
Chances are they are aware of the issue. It might not be on the top of their list, hence the discussion to see what people think. Honestly, I think they will revisit it when they revisit other stuff like WTZ, docking radius, warp speeds, autopilot, station games. |
Arugas Koken
Peregrine Guard
16
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Posted - 2012.04.19 23:06:00 -
[33] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:just give JF moar tank and maybe a warp strength bonus so that it takes more then 1 scram to lock it down. maybe even a immune to bubble on top of that... they are expensive as hell after all.
Wouldn't change much tbh. People would just use carriers, rorquals and titan bridges instead. |
Citrute
Worker's Syndicate
6
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Posted - 2012.04.19 23:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
If cyno's were to be changed as suggested in this thread, most would adapt fairly easy. I for one would make op not only light my a cyno with his alt, but also force him to bring his main and web me out.
But its true, jump drives and titan bridges has made logistics and moving caps a minor inconvenience. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
36
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Posted - 2012.04.19 23:46:00 -
[35] - Quote
Citrute wrote:If cyno's were to be changed as suggested in this thread, most would adapt fairly easy. I for one would make op not only light my a cyno with his alt, but also force him to bring his main and web me out. But its true, jump drives and titan bridges has made logistics and moving caps a minor inconvenience.
teamwork > solo
A bigger group does attract more attention though. I just find it a bit crazy that the only real counter to a JF is a DD Titan Squad. Cost-wise, that's equivalent to something like needing to jump 3-4 supercarriers in order to kill a single marauder.
Of course JF's will be the hottest topic here since the other caps are actually needed on the field and have plenty or opportunities to get blown up. Just not while traveling. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
36
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 23:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
Arugas Koken wrote:Herping yourDerp wrote:just give JF moar tank and maybe a warp strength bonus so that it takes more then 1 scram to lock it down. maybe even a immune to bubble on top of that... they are expensive as hell after all. Wouldn't change much tbh. People would just use carriers, rorquals and titan bridges instead.
And why not, if they so choose? a JF would still remain as the most effective option in terms of sheer m3 quantity. Once vulnerable, they could easily be put on par with regular freighter loads too. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
630
|
Posted - 2012.04.20 00:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:Mara Villoso wrote: describing current cyno mechanics make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."
simple: "uninteresting". So nothing's actually wrong with it then? It makes logistics so easy a caveman can do it. It removes all risk from moving assets from Jita -> nullsec hub of choice. It makes it easier for alliances to import from hisec than setup their own proper industrial backbone. It encourages players in alliances to import from hisec rather than rely or contribute to the alliance backbone. So your answer is "EVE is too easy." http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
173
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Posted - 2012.04.20 01:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
When I think of ways I could make this f*cking terrible game better, I don't really see making the quality of life of anybody who travels outside of continous highsec as a solution.
Nothing is going to make industry go local in 0.0, its simply not feasible. Datacores are not found in nullsec in enough quanity to foster invention for one. |
Smofuggra
Creep Factory Interspacial Dynasty
8
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Posted - 2012.04.20 01:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
I've already ranted somewhere about this once today.
So I'll support it.
Scrap Jump Freighters. Decrease the docking radius on stations Increase the landing radius on Cyno's.
Also... Seeing as how Titan's are apparently "useless" now... might as well make them the new jump freighter. |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2012.04.20 03:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
i love it when empiredwellers talk about nullsec logistics so authoritatively from the perspective of the veldspar belt |
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non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
765
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Posted - 2012.04.20 03:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.
Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.
So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game. |
Zleon Leigh
115
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Posted - 2012.04.20 03:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Sure, let's make it even harder for small corps to live in nullSec.
0/10 for the troll Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
632
|
Posted - 2012.04.20 06:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
non judgement wrote:It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.
Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.
So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game. Holy crap, you're not allowed to have an opinion on mechanics ever again. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
615
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Posted - 2012.04.20 06:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:non judgement wrote:It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.
Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.
So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game. Holy crap, you're not allowed to have an opinion on mechanics ever again. I think (hope?) it was satire trolling. Very avant garde trolling, sir. ( /dons EvE monocle... there should be an emote for that)
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
429
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Posted - 2012.04.20 06:35:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:i love it when empiredwellers talk about nullsec logistics so authoritatively from the perspective of the veldspar belt It's fine, as long as they package that veldspar into 425mm Railgun Is (or whatever we use now) and sell them to us to JF down to make more supercapitals ! Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
78
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Posted - 2012.04.20 08:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
non judgement wrote:It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.
Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.
So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.
cynos don't show up system wide and cannot be warped to from anywhere in the system by simply being clicked on in the overview, nope |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
36
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Posted - 2012.04.20 12:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
Zleon Leigh wrote:Sure, let's make it even harder for small corps to live in nullSec.
0/10 for the troll
0/10 for your post indeed, try harder. |
Citrute
Quiet.Storm F0RCEFUL ENTRY
6
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Posted - 2012.04.20 13:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:i love it when empiredwellers talk about nullsec logistics so authoritatively from the perspective of the veldspar belt I love it when nulsec nap bears post with their alts and think they know anything but how to lock a primary and press f1. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
765
|
Posted - 2012.04.20 14:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:non judgement wrote:It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.
Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.
So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game. Holy crap, you're not allowed to have an opinion on mechanics ever again. I'm completely at least 500% sure that I'm 150% accurate.
Edit: Oh my god... I'm thinking of something else... No wait that's mulitplication. This is all okay. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
41
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 09:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
Has anyone actually tried to catch a JF or another traveling capital ship? Is there a way to catch them effectively without requiring some sort of gimmick involving being extremely unlucky or mobilizing a 1000 people?
Seems like the ones who disagree to this have no intention of catching their enemies in the first place and care only about their own survival. Would an unkillable ship with infinite HP be acceptable in EVE? It seems that, for those who do not wish to PVP at all, it would be. |
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Medarr
ZeroSec
0
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Posted - 2012.04.21 10:44:00 -
[51] - Quote
non judgement wrote:It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.
Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.
So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.
+1
aside from the fact that you can warp to a cyno beacon. Its the covert cyno that doesnt show up on overview |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
155
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 10:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Mara Villoso wrote: describing current cyno mechanics make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."
simple: "uninteresting". won't work. so simple and regular task as travelling doesn't need to be 'interesting'. It needs to be fast and easy. Elsewere why travel at all? |
ACE McFACE
Acetech Systems
630
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 11:04:00 -
[53] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:The thing I want when enjoying CONCORD advertisements on WiS TV is Jimbo001's Titan jumping into my sorry ass. boom.
This quote has not been altered Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt! |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
260
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 11:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
Gogela wrote: Remove jump engines from JFs and increase their cargo holds to twice that of normal freighters. Increase HP... allow them to carry caps. Solved.
**not sure how to deal with the caps in empire issue that would pop up. Maybe make caps contraband in highsec and allow players to shoot at people taking them through?
Increasing the JF fuel consumption by an order of magnitude also solves the issue, but in a better way.
Want to make or save money hauling lots of things at once? Use a freighter! Need a lots of things hauled fast and/or really safe, no matter the cost? Use a JF!
The simple problem is that with a JF you can get 'fast', 'safe' and still make/save tons of money. CCP, fix the forum's image tags http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á visit at http://bit.ly/wdatt |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 11:38:00 -
[55] - Quote
The fact that you have to pay for a cyno jump with fuel seems, at least in part, compensatory for the precision and speed with which the jump can be done.. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
444
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 11:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Herping yourDerp wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Ghoest wrote:cyno freight ruined EVE
This. first true statment by master nerd troll Agreed x2... true statement and nerdguy is a troll. /headexplosion Remove jump engines from JFs and increase their cargo holds to twice that of normal freighters. Increase HP... allow them to carry caps. Solved. **not sure how to deal with the caps in empire issue that would pop up. Maybe make caps contraband in highsec and allow players to shoot at people taking them through?
Yep, a jump freighter without an actual jump drive how does one call this, a freighter? That combined with the suggestion for a 15 km jump in for cyno'd in cap ships just shows you guys only want very easy, very, very juicy targets. Who needs television when you have EVE? EVE drama, best drama. |
Dark Drifter
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
30
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Posted - 2012.04.21 12:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mara Villoso wrote:You have provided the answer yourself: a stargate is a giant cyno beacon, therefore its "cyno sphere" (arrival point) is much larger than the ship fitted version, which is very small. From an immersion perspective (and game design), there is also the issue of high volume traffic paths have to account for many, many ships jumping through at once, so that gate is larger to provide extra landing places. Finally, you should already know that you're not at risk of someone crashing through your quarters; ships bounce off stations. Anyone familiar with jumping should know that if you end up inside something else, you're simply pushed out. Fear not station based couch potato, you're in no danger.
Strangely, your post doesn't actually make a case for your desired outcome. Why, exactly, should it be changed? Oh and (to use your ridiculous constraints), make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."
FYI jump gate tech and cyno tech only have one thing in common, that is the ability to move ships across vast distances in an instant...
a jump gates point of origin is the same as that of the cyno (the center point of the gate. the reason you can jump at 2.5k from a gate in eve is only because having every ship move into the jump gate launcher is impractical and would mean anything up to an hour wait to jum in a place like jita.
i agree with the OP that cynos are to presice. a frigit can plant over 1000 ships within 5k of its self in a second. this is a little op. my personal opinion is that there need to be a number of changes to cynos to stop the proliferation of supa fleets being able to force project in less than a second.
they are:
-cyno spool up times on cap and super caps -mass limits on cynos associated with hull size of cyno ship -larger landing zone... more ships through = possibility of not even landing on grid. (you overload cyno anchor and end up by the sun or even a gate)
and thats only 3 of the many thaughts i have to change/fix :/ cynos - |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
155
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 12:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:A bigger group does attract more attention though. I just find it a bit crazy that the only real counter to a JF is a DD Titan Squad. Cost-wise, that's equivalent to something like needing to jump 3-4 supercarriers in order to kill a single marauder.
have you ever seen killboard? There is plenty of JFs dead without any titans around |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
42
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Posted - 2012.04.21 14:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:Mara Villoso wrote: describing current cyno mechanics make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."
simple: "uninteresting". won't work. so simple and regular task as travelling doesn't need to be 'interesting'. It needs to be fast and easy. Elsewere why travel at all?
I Agree 50%. Travel needs to be fast, just not as easy (safe) as it currently is. The jump freighter's role is to make logistics faster at the cost of m3 capacity. With current mechanics it also has the side effect of requiring no escort at all, unlike the regular freighters.
If you increase the risks, rewards should also follow. Give jump freighters more m3... Make them harder to pin down... Give them the ability to cloak... reduce their cost... anything really. I simply think it's time to take a look at cynos and remove their automatic iWin button. Nobody wants ships with automatic iWin buttons unless all they care about is to only fly that ship.
Why not allow cynos within POS shields then? There is already a 15 km minimum distance for the reasons above. Stations should be no different, but at least rebalanced the affected ships so they are not automatic iLose buttons either. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
42
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 14:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:A bigger group does attract more attention though. I just find it a bit crazy that the only real counter to a JF is a DD Titan Squad. Cost-wise, that's equivalent to something like needing to jump 3-4 supercarriers in order to kill a single marauder.
have you ever seen killboard? There is plenty of JFs dead without any titans around
But how many of those are not due to wardecs or unlucky bounces? You can catch one at a cyno generator, but it usually requires a force capable to attack a large deathstar POS. |
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