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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
33
   |
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why are cynos allowed within docking range?
Why are cyno jumps more precise than Stargates?
For one, the "sphere of arrival" should be similar - if not greater - to a stargate. With that in mind, cyno's should not be allowed within at least 15 km from any celestial object such as stations, stargates or POS bubbles (...wait). Why are we risking the lives of all those station dwellers? The last thing I want when enjoying CONCORD advertisements on WiS TV is Jimbo001's Titan jumping onto/into my sorry ass. boom.
If you disagree, please provide another argument than something along the lines of "I don't want EVE to become harder", thanks. There is currently no challenge when travelling using cynos - I doubt anyone complains about the cyno kessy ganks.
If you agree, I'd like to hear how you think this should be implemented and what other restrictions/changes could follow. |
hermot
Angels of Valour
G00DFELLAS
13
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Posted - 2012.04.19 19:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
low sec pirate angry?
|
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow
NightSong Directorate
326
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
hermot wrote:low sec pirate angry?
He obviously hasn't discovered you can get free kills by popping cyno frigs on stations with something as small as a destroyer and STILL get out before the station guns pwn you.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
hermot
Angels of Valour
G00DFELLAS
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:hermot wrote:low sec pirate angry?
He obviously hasn't discovered you can get free kills by popping cyno frigs on stations with something as small as a destroyer and STILL get out before the station guns pwn you.
Nothing screams pro pvp like shooting a cyno alt. /sarcasm |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
hermot wrote:low sec pirate angry?
The answer to this question is quite irrelevant to the discussion.  |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae
ROMANIAN-LEGION
126
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Posted - 2012.04.19 19:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
gates are catapaulting themselves across galaxies, ships with varying masses and the like. A cyno jump drive is precise. Also, cannot be right on station with a cyno, need to be 5km away or enjoy playing pinball |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
hermot wrote:masternerdguy wrote:hermot wrote:low sec pirate angry?
He obviously hasn't discovered you can get free kills by popping cyno frigs on stations with something as small as a destroyer and STILL get out before the station guns pwn you. Nothing screams pro pvp like shooting a cyno alt. /sarcasm
Considering how easy it is to destroy/pod a logged off cyno, the danger remains the same if the ship was 15 km away from the station. (you can't dock either after getting exploded due to session change ;..;)
We are discussion the vulnerability of the true prize here a.k.a. the capital ships, please continue. |
Ghoest
332
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Posted - 2012.04.19 19:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
cyno freight ruined EVE
Wherever You Went - Here You Are |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow
NightSong Directorate
326
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ghoest wrote:cyno freight ruined EVE
This.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
517
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Ghoest wrote:cyno freight ruined EVE
This.
first true statment by master nerd troll |
Mara Villoso
Big Box
The Toy Box
65
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
You have provided the answer yourself: a stargate is a giant cyno beacon, therefore its "cyno sphere" (arrival point) is much larger than the ship fitted version, which is very small. From an immersion perspective (and game design), there is also the issue of high volume traffic paths have to account for many, many ships jumping through at once, so that gate is larger to provide extra landing places. Finally, you should already know that you're not at risk of someone crashing through your quarters; ships bounce off stations. Anyone familiar with jumping should know that if you end up inside something else, you're simply pushed out. Fear not station based couch potato, you're in no danger.
Strangely, your post doesn't actually make a case for your desired outcome. Why, exactly, should it be changed? Oh and (to use your ridiculous constraints), make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy." |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:gates are catapaulting themselves across galaxies, ships with varying masses and the like. A cyno jump drive is precise. Also, cannot be right on station with a cyno, need to be 5km away or enjoy playing pinball
you can be "at 0" (within dock range) even though you are physically 20ish km away from the bumping zone. C'mon you can do better than that... |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
230
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Posted - 2012.04.19 19:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
hermot wrote:masternerdguy wrote:hermot wrote:low sec pirate angry?
He obviously hasn't discovered you can get free kills by popping cyno frigs on stations with something as small as a destroyer and STILL get out before the station guns pwn you. Nothing screams pro pvp like shooting a cyno alt. /sarcasm
'pro pvp' 
CCP, fix the forum's image tags http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
Cleaner warbills, anti-memberpadding, no price-shielding large corps:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1141323#post1141323 |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force
Fatal Ascension
629
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mara Villoso wrote:Strangely, your post doesn't actually make a case for your desired outcome. Why, exactly, should it be changed? Oh and (to use your ridiculous constraints), make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."
QFT. Why should it be changed?
http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose
Remove all incursions from hisec |
Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate
EVE Animal Control
166
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:hermot wrote:low sec pirate angry?
He obviously hasn't discovered you can get free kills by popping cyno frigs on stations with something as small as a destroyer and STILL get out before the station guns pwn you.
Now we know what masternerdguy is talking about when he posts about "PVP"
@ OP I am leaning towards agreeing with you. I would like to see something done with the jump drive mechanic. Being able to jump ships right from station to station (something I do all the time) does seem kind of broken. Moving large amounts of goods via JF and/or capital ships designed for unmatched fleet support around should be more difficult IMO.
Unfortunately I don't have any well thought out suggestions so w/e.
I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow
NightSong Directorate
326
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 19:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:Now we know what masternerdguy is talking about when he posts about "PVP"
Yet another person who won't look at my actual killboard 
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Varesk
Mafia Redux
Black Legion.
41
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Posted - 2012.04.19 19:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
you can be "at 0" (within dock range) even though you are physically 20ish km away from the bumping zone. C'mon you can do better than that...
I think you answered your own question.
|
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 20:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Varesk wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:
you can be "at 0" (within dock range) even though you are physically 20ish km away from the bumping zone. C'mon you can do better than that...
I think you answered your own question.
So you agree moving ships through a cyno chain poses very little risk? This is why It should be changed. Seems to me this system is as broken as the dramiel back in the day when only the pilot's mistake would put it at risk.
As long as you know what you are doing, you are never risking your ship. When was the last time you heard about a JF kill that was NOT due to the pilot's silly mistake? |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 20:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mara Villoso wrote:
describing current cyno mechanics
make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."
simple: "uninteresting". |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
607
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 20:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Ghoest wrote:cyno freight ruined EVE
This. first true statment by master nerd troll
Agreed x2... true statement and nerdguy is a troll.
/headexplosion
Remove jump engines from JFs and increase their cargo holds to twice that of normal freighters. Increase HP... allow them to carry caps. Solved.
**not sure how to deal with the caps in empire issue that would pop up. Maybe make caps contraband in highsec and allow players to shoot at people taking them through?
|
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force
Fatal Ascension
629
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 20:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Mara Villoso wrote:
describing current cyno mechanics
make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."
simple: "uninteresting".
So nothing's actually wrong with it then?
http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose
Remove all incursions from hisec |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow
NightSong Directorate
329
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 20:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:Mara Villoso wrote:
describing current cyno mechanics
make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."
simple: "uninteresting". So nothing's actually wrong with it then?
It makes logistics so easy a caveman can do it.
It removes all risk from moving assets from Jita -> nullsec hub of choice.
It makes it easier for alliances to import from hisec than setup their own proper industrial backbone.
It encourages players in alliances to import from hisec rather than rely or contribute to the alliance backbone.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
518
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 20:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Herping yourDerp wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Ghoest wrote:cyno freight ruined EVE
This. first true statment by master nerd troll Agreed x2... true statement and nerdguy is a troll. /headexplosion Remove jump engines from JFs and increase their cargo holds to twice that of normal freighters. Increase HP... allow them to carry caps. Solved. **not sure how to deal with the caps in empire issue that would pop up. Maybe make caps contraband in highsec and allow players to shoot at people taking them through?
just give JF moar tank and maybe a warp strength bonus so that it takes more then 1 scram to lock it down.
maybe even a immune to bubble on top of that... they are expensive as hell after all. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 20:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:Mara Villoso wrote:
describing current cyno mechanics
make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."
simple: "uninteresting". So nothing's actually wrong with it then? It makes logistics so easy a caveman can do it. It removes all risk from moving assets from Jita -> nullsec hub of choice. It makes it easier for alliances to import from hisec than setup their own proper industrial backbone. It encourages players in alliances to import from hisec rather than rely or contribute to the alliance backbone.
Pretty much.
There is also no reason to penalize only JF`s though. Moving any capital ship should require a combination of planning, scouting and timing.
As long as you can catch any cap ship if you immediatly warp to a cyno (before checking if it is at a POS) then i think the system would be more balanced and fun for both parties. At first, some might lose their ships being cynoed, but then, pirates will start losing their ships by blindly warping to cynos. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
607
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 21:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:just give JF moar tank and maybe a warp strength bonus so that it takes more then 1 scram to lock it down.
maybe even a immune to bubble on top of that... they are expensive as hell after all.
That would be fine with me too... I own a handfull of JFs. I could see how others who have JFs might feel a little more burned by this but I for one would be just fine with this as a solution since it would fix a big problem in the game. Not sure I agree with bubble immunity. Better +6 to warp core.
|
Fish Hunter
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 22:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
If you change the jump mechanic so that ships are pushed into danger or far outside docking range, the new standard for small/solo groups will just be to jump right before Downtime. A couple jump freighters die every day, why would you want it to be a common occurence to get a shot at a 6 bil isk hull that is a loot pinata. The logistics part of EVE is definatelly the least "fun", and i'm glad the current jump mechanics make the trips go quick. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 22:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Herping yourDerp wrote:just give JF moar tank and maybe a warp strength bonus so that it takes more then 1 scram to lock it down.
maybe even a immune to bubble on top of that... they are expensive as hell after all. That would be fine with me too... I own a handfull of JFs. I could see how others who have JFs might feel a little more burned by this but I for one would be just fine with this as a solution since it would fix a big problem in the game. Not sure I agree with bubble immunity. Better +6 to warp core.
I like the idea of warp-stabbed jump freighters to compensate, especially since they can't fit a cloak like the other caps. It would take a semi-coordinated attack to catch one at least. Or a heavy interdictor ready. Either case would be worthy of a counter.
In the case of a cloaky capital ship... you would KNOW there is a capital ship cloaked SOMEWHERE in a 15 km radius of the cyno. It cannot warp away. Sounds like fun to me . Of course, if it cloaks long enough for it to recharge it's cap before it is found, there is a chance of escape with proper timing. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 22:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Fish Hunter wrote:If you change the jump mechanic so that ships are pushed into danger or far outside docking range, the new standard for small/solo groups will just be to jump right before Downtime. A couple jump freighters die every day, why would you want it to be a common occurence to get a shot at a 6 bil isk hull that is a loot pinata. The logistics part of EVE is definatelly the least "fun", and i'm glad the current jump mechanics make the trips go quick.
They would still take relatively the same amount of time. However, there would be a window for a coordinated offensive.
I'm pretty sure part of the logistics boring part is that they can be done solo fairly easily, which becomes a mundane time sink for the designated corp/alliance JF pilot. |
Dirk Culliford
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 22:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Yes, please take away cyno freighter and give it warp stabs instead. (protip - you don't need a point to 'tackle' a freighter)
I agree that cyno hauling has damaged eve, but that proposal simply consigns t2 freighters to the bin. (this may be a good thing) |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
35
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 22:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dirk Culliford wrote:Yes, please take away cyno freighter and give it warp stabs instead. (protip - you don't need a point to 'tackle' a freighter)
I agree that cyno hauling has damaged eve, but that proposal simply consigns t2 freighters to the bin. (this may be a good thing)
Not everybody knows this. However, assuming perfect timing on the cyno/jump/warp to station, let's assume it takes a solid 45 seconds for the freighter to enter warp once the cyno is lit. Your ganker has exactly 45 seconds to realize there is a cyno, align, warp, land, move 10ish kms to bump. Some timers might need to be revisited, I agree.
The point is, if done right, a pirate should have less than 5 seconds to initiate warp to a new cyno if he wants to have any hopes of catching what comes through. The best part, he won't know 100% what is coming through because once he does, it is already too late: he either lands in time and tries to tackle or arrives too late.
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