low sec pirate angry?

He obviously hasn't discovered you can get free kills by popping cyno frigs on stations with something as small as a destroyer and STILL get out before the station guns pwn you.

low sec pirate angry?

Nothing screams pro pvp like shooting a cyno alt. /sarcasm

cyno freight ruined EVE

This.

gates are catapaulting themselves across galaxies, ships with varying masses and the like. A cyno jump drive is precise. Also, cannot be right on station with a cyno, need to be 5km away or enjoy playing pinball

Nothing screams pro pvp like shooting a cyno alt. /sarcasm

Strangely, your post doesn't actually make a case for your desired outcome. Why, exactly, should it be changed? Oh and (to use your ridiculous constraints), make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."

He obviously hasn't discovered you can get free kills by popping cyno frigs on stations with something as small as a destroyer and STILL get out before the station guns pwn you.

Now we know what masternerdguy is talking about when he posts about "PVP"

you can be "at 0" (within dock range) even though you are physically 20ish km away from the bumping zone. C'mon you can do better than that...

I think you answered your own question.

describing current cyno mechanics
make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."

first true statment by master nerd troll

simple: "uninteresting".

So nothing's actually wrong with it then?

Agreed x2... true statement and nerdguy is a troll.

/headexplosion

Remove jump engines from JFs and increase their cargo holds to twice that of normal freighters. Increase HP... allow them to carry caps. Solved.

**not sure how to deal with the caps in empire issue that would pop up. Maybe make caps contraband in highsec and allow players to shoot at people taking them through?

It makes logistics so easy a caveman can do it.
It removes all risk from moving assets from Jita -> nullsec hub of choice.
It makes it easier for alliances to import from hisec than setup their own proper industrial backbone.
It encourages players in alliances to import from hisec rather than rely or contribute to the alliance backbone.

just give JF moar tank and maybe a warp strength bonus so that it takes more then 1 scram to lock it down.
maybe even a immune to bubble on top of that... they are expensive as hell after all.

That would be fine with me too... I own a handfull of JFs. I could see how others who have JFs might feel a little more burned by this but I for one would be just fine with this as a solution since it would fix a big problem in the game. Not sure I agree with bubble immunity. Better +6 to warp core.

If you change the jump mechanic so that ships are pushed into danger or far outside docking range, the new standard for small/solo groups will just be to jump right before Downtime. A couple jump freighters die every day, why would you want it to be a common occurence to get a shot at a 6 bil isk hull that is a loot pinata. The logistics part of EVE is definatelly the least "fun", and i'm glad the current jump mechanics make the trips go quick.

Yes, please take away cyno freighter and give it warp stabs instead. (protip - you don't need a point to 'tackle' a freighter)


I agree that cyno hauling has damaged eve, but that proposal simply consigns t2 freighters to the bin. (this may be a good thing)

I think the main point of this is that right now you cannot really interfere with an enemies cyno logistics chain since they can use any low sec station that is not a kickout. This way people will be forced to risk it and light a cyno in a safespot or light cynos on POSs and those are attack-able.

Good luck getting CCP to realize this.

just give JF moar tank and maybe a warp strength bonus so that it takes more then 1 scram to lock it down. maybe even a immune to bubble on top of that... they are expensive as hell after all.

If cyno's were to be changed as suggested in this thread, most would adapt fairly easy. I for one would make op not only light my a cyno with his alt, but also force him to bring his main and web me out.

But its true, jump drives and titan bridges has made logistics and moving caps a minor inconvenience.

Wouldn't change much tbh. People would just use carriers, rorquals and titan bridges instead.

It makes logistics so easy a caveman can do it.
It removes all risk from moving assets from Jita -> nullsec hub of choice.
It makes it easier for alliances to import from hisec than setup their own proper industrial backbone.
It encourages players in alliances to import from hisec rather than rely or contribute to the alliance backbone.

It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.

Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.

So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.

Holy crap, you're not allowed to have an opinion on mechanics ever again.

i love it when empiredwellers talk about nullsec logistics so authoritatively from the perspective of the veldspar belt

It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.

Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.

So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.

Sure, let's make it even harder for small corps to live in nullSec.

0/10 for the troll

i love it when empiredwellers talk about nullsec logistics so authoritatively from the perspective of the veldspar belt

Holy crap, you're not allowed to have an opinion on mechanics ever again.

It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.

Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.

So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.

simple: "uninteresting".

The thing I want when enjoying CONCORD advertisements on WiS TV is Jimbo001's Titan jumping into my sorry ass. boom.

Remove jump engines from JFs and increase their cargo holds to twice that of normal freighters. Increase HP... allow them to carry caps. Solved.

**not sure how to deal with the caps in empire issue that would pop up. Maybe make caps contraband in highsec and allow players to shoot at people taking them through?

Agreed x2... true statement and nerdguy is a troll.

/headexplosion

Remove jump engines from JFs and increase their cargo holds to twice that of normal freighters. Increase HP... allow them to carry caps. Solved.

**not sure how to deal with the caps in empire issue that would pop up. Maybe make caps contraband in highsec and allow players to shoot at people taking them through?

You have provided the answer yourself: a stargate is a giant cyno beacon, therefore its "cyno sphere" (arrival point) is much larger than the ship fitted version, which is very small. From an immersion perspective (and game design), there is also the issue of high volume traffic paths have to account for many, many ships jumping through at once, so that gate is larger to provide extra landing places. Finally, you should already know that you're not at risk of someone crashing through your quarters; ships bounce off stations. Anyone familiar with jumping should know that if you end up inside something else, you're simply pushed out. Fear not station based couch potato, you're in no danger.

Strangely, your post doesn't actually make a case for your desired outcome. Why, exactly, should it be changed? Oh and (to use your ridiculous constraints), make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."

A bigger group does attract more attention though. I just find it a bit crazy that the only real counter to a JF is a DD Titan Squad. Cost-wise, that's equivalent to something like needing to jump 3-4 supercarriers in order to kill a single marauder.

won't work. so simple and regular task as travelling doesn't need to be 'interesting'. It needs to be fast and easy. Elsewere why travel at all?

have you ever seen killboard? There is plenty of JFs dead without any titans around

Are we talking jump freighters or cynos.

Jump freighters where and are badly needed.
At one time Dread and carriers performed the role the the mass movers and where later on nerfed.
Which left the small alliances in a serious bind while the large titan alliances simply shifted to more titan bridges.

As far as cyno's
Keep in mind you can warp directly to any cyno no matter where it is in system.

Well first off if you move cyno's to 15 km off anything then everyone will switch to POS's as there drop off point.

So you are going to go from.
Forcing someone to dock and undock opportunity to a lets take on a POS.

That would mean less opportunity to kill a capital rather then more.

IF the mechanic of docking is perceived to be to much then wouldn't it be better to create a docking timer when you jump via a cyno ?

As you have failed to explain the actual problem it is rather hard to find a fix.

It's fine, as long as they package that veldspar into 425mm Railgun Is (or whatever we use now) and sell them to us to JF down to make more supercapitals !

We are primarily discussing cynos. The topic of Jump Freighters will come up since they are the only ships who purely use the problem outlined about cynos. Other ships must be used in more dangerous roles which makes the traveling part a bit more trivial for them. Other capital ships also can "travel fit" which makes them even more efficient at cyno traveling than jump freighters (+ cloak).

The main issue I have with cynos at station is a lack of a proper counter. Classic example of rock, paper, shotgun. Shotgun wins all the time. Unless you bring 1000 rocks.

Also, other capital ships can't enter highsec, which means they can only mimic a jump freighter to a certain point; you still need to physically move in an empty freighter through the high/low sec gate.

Current cyno mechanics allow Jump Freighters to jump out of highsec into the docking zone of a lowsec station. Warp to gate a zero. Rinse/Repeat.

Yes we are only talking about 3 ship classes.

Carrier / Dread - which as you say can't jump through gates but does have weapons, and can defend itself if need be.
Price range 1-2 Bill
Jump Freighter - No weapons, no hardening, but it can jump through a gate. (if you could put a scram on a newbie ship it could stop a jump freighter indefinitely) and there is nothing the jump freighter could do except log ( and pray with the new timer rule). price 7-8 Bill

By all your comments you have a problem with station docking and NOT cyno's
You want to create a opportunity to kill a 7 bill isk capital ship (empty) with 5 cruisers.

THen simply put a timer on how long a ship must wait to dock after jumping through a cyno.
So how much time do you need ?
1 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes ?
I am being serious.

How about the ship can't dock as long as the cyno is up and on grid.
Hmmm how about nobody can dock or undock while a cyno is up on a station grid.
Dangerous conditions and all that.
Then you could lock people out of stations or lock them in.
I actually like that idea, it would kill lots of issues.
But CCP would have to make the cyno collapse when the cyno ship is destroyed.

That would fix everything and add in a new twist.

Goons haha being a goon is easier than starting fron scratch in highsec yet every goontard has that elitist sense of superiority over highseccers that I love.
Sorry I didn't have a corp hand me everything when I created my acct.

I love it when nulsec nap bears post with their alts and think they know anything but how to lock a primary and press f1.

Why are cynos allowed within docking range?
Why are cyno jumps more precise than stargates?

For one, the "sphere of arrival" should be similar - if not greater - to a stargate. With that in mind, cynos should not be allowed within at least 15 km from any celestial object such as stations, stargates or POS bubbles (...wait). Why are we risking the lives of all those station dwellers? The last thing I want when enjoying CONCORD advertisements on WiS TV is Jimbo001's Titan jumping onto/into my sorry ass. boom.

If you disagree, please provide another argument than something along the lines of "I don't want EVE to become harder", thanks. There is currently no challenge when travelling using cynos - I doubt anyone complains about the cyno kessy ganks.

If you agree, I'd like to hear how you think this should be implemented and what other restrictions/changes could follow.

I honestly wouldn't mind Jimbo001's Titan jumping in on your sorry ass.

you can be "at 0" (within dock range) even though you are physically 20ish km away from the bumping zone. C'mon you can do better than that...

So you agree moving ships through a cyno chain poses very little risk? This is why It should be changed. Seems to me this system is as broken as the dramiel back in the day when only the pilot's mistake would put it at risk.

As long as you know what you are doing, you are never risking your ship. When was the last time you heard about a JF kill that was NOT due to the pilot's silly mistake?

i love it when non-spaceholding alliances talk about the activities of spaceholding alliances

But how many of those are not due to wardecs or unlucky bounces? You can catch one at a cyno generator, but it usually requires a force capable to attack a large deathstar POS.

The answer to this question is quite irrelevant to the discussion.

The issue is the station structure itself since it is essentially a bubble of influence, not sure the mechanics. I myself wouldn't mind reduced docking bubbles, or docking zones, still needs to ensure proper collision mechanics however.

You seem to be under the assumption that everything in Eve has to have some huge standard of risk, which is not strictly speaking, true. There is risk in everything, but not necessarily high risk. Risk can be mitigated by a number of factors, including Alts.
[...]
Why is your demand the more compelling?

Just remove the warp to function, and add a limit to cyno range around stations (like dropping giant secure containers). If the scouts do their job and the Cyno ships check Dscan, the cyno'd ship is still pretty safe, just not perfectly safe as they are now. That is more in the spirit of EVE imo.

Which question was that?
It looks to me that you made a statement.
"I'm bad at pirating, and I want to chnage game mechanics to make it easier...."

This.

Correct me if any of this is wrong.

Cyno's require skills, fuel, and ships capable of utilizing the mods plus the specialized mods and deployables. They require coordination of two parties (minimum). So yes, they are more accurate than system gates that generically propel a very wide variety of loads across highly variable distances without requiring any special skills, fuel, mods, coordination, deployables or alignment.

It's like molding a piece of aluminum using a large bastard file versus a CNC machine.

cyno freight ruined freighter ganking

]It makes logistics so easy a caveman can do it.
It removes all risk from moving assets from Jita -> nullsec hub of choice.
It makes it easier for alliances to import from hisec than setup their own proper industrial backbone.
It encourages players in alliances to import from hisec rather than rely or contribute to the alliance backbone.

Nothing screams pro pvp like shooting a cyno alt. /sarcasm

Some PvP is about tears, not chestbeating, isk, killboards or other irrelevant drivel. I farmed cyno frigs in a lowsec area for some time, not to pad killboards (it doesn't affect your efficiency anyhow, based on isk as it usually is), it doesn't make me look good (in fact, I've gotten alot of insults, similar to yours). But it also got some of them so annoyed they cyno'd in other systems, allowing me to get a few JF/capital kills. But I wouldn't expect a blobing killboard-masturbating elite PvPer to understand such things. And of course, the tears, they are delicious, the amount of hatemails you get from certain people, claiming they will violate your mother and sister, just because you kill his cyno frigs repeatedly.. is priceless.

It actually takes an enormous amount of time, planning, and isk to move items to/from nullsec. Just cuz lowsec and empire noobs see a high priced capital ship and want to kill it, doesn't mean they should be able to.

It's actually already extremely easy to kill a carrier or jump freighter off a station dock. Really is unfortunate that people who don't fly cap ships don't truly understand how to kill them. Look at orphanage or privateers killboards and see how many jump freighters they kill. They make a living off killing JF's.

If you really wanna kill high cost ships in your own realm go wardec an incursion runner or something. Gank them with 3 or so T1 fitted blackbirds even xP. Or better yet leave empire and do some real pvp.

FYI only a nutter would cyno directly onto a POS bubble takes to long to slow boat in you cyno 150+ off the POS so you still in range of defences but able to warp directly to the tower.