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Droidster
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Droidster on 31/07/2004 16:47:48
ATTENTION ALL MINERS - PREPARE TO LOSE 30% OF YOUR INCOME IN SHIVA
The devs have made the following statement regarding Shiva: "When placing a bid order (buying stuff), the order amount will be put aside (in escrow) while the order is active."
see http://www.eve-online.com/features/shiva/market/
This means traders and min buyers will no longer be able to place unsecured orders. The consequence of this will be that player market orders for freight/luxury/armaments/ships will virtually cease and orders for minerals will probably decrease by around 30% average. For example, right now you can get 70-75 in core empire for Isogen and 60-65 in the outlying mining districts where it is produced. You can kiss those prices good bye. Plan on getting about 65 in core empire and 40 or lower in an outlying area and zero anywhere else. The same goes for the other minerals.
I suggest screaming now, because if you wait until Shiva comes out to scream you will have a two week "income holiday"  while the devs scramble to eliminate this ill-advised change.
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I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK. |
Droidster
|
Posted - 2004.07.31 15:56:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Droidster on 31/07/2004 16:47:48
ATTENTION ALL MINERS - PREPARE TO LOSE 30% OF YOUR INCOME IN SHIVA
The devs have made the following statement regarding Shiva: "When placing a bid order (buying stuff), the order amount will be put aside (in escrow) while the order is active."
see http://www.eve-online.com/features/shiva/market/
This means traders and min buyers will no longer be able to place unsecured orders. The consequence of this will be that player market orders for freight/luxury/armaments/ships will virtually cease and orders for minerals will probably decrease by around 30% average. For example, right now you can get 70-75 in core empire for Isogen and 60-65 in the outlying mining districts where it is produced. You can kiss those prices good bye. Plan on getting about 65 in core empire and 40 or lower in an outlying area and zero anywhere else. The same goes for the other minerals.
I suggest screaming now, because if you wait until Shiva comes out to scream you will have a two week "income holiday" while the devs scramble to eliminate this ill-advised change.
_____________________________________________
I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK. |
Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:11:00 -
[3]
What is wrong with this?
No more putting out fake buy orders pretty much making market useless by a few clowns.
If anything it is fixing exploits.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:11:00 -
[4]
What is wrong with this?
No more putting out fake buy orders pretty much making market useless by a few clowns.
If anything it is fixing exploits.
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Ichabod Dirange
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:12:00 -
[5]
I didn't realize the market was broken and needed fixing, was this a priority?
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Ichabod Dirange
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:12:00 -
[6]
I didn't realize the market was broken and needed fixing, was this a priority?
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:22:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Mynobe Soletae on 31/07/2004 16:25:27
Screaming does no good. It's thinking that it does that creates all the whine on these boards.
Where did you pull that 30% from?
I'm not sure how many people actually pre-order ships and armament right now. From my point of view, if someone needs a ship they'll go buy the cheapest at the moment, no waiting. And if they need ammo, they certainly don't wait with guns empty for a "perfect" order to fill.
The only orders I see on the market are the "sucker" orders: people trying to buy stuff below recycle value, and the 1 ISK "trick the noob" orders. Yes, those are on margin, and yes, I'll be glad to see those go, personally.
Recycle value buying can still happen, if you see it below recycle value, buy it. Just it'll be a choice: either actively search, or lock some of your cash in a buy order.
Mineral prices, I do not know. It is likely that standing demand for huge volume will probably decrease considerably. However, huge manufacturing centers will probably still need the same amounts of minerals as now. So, instead of seeing a buy order for 1 Bil tritanium that sits there for a month, you'll see a smaller 10-million order that gets filled and then resubmitted daily.
We'll see.
PS. Oh yes, and the two week "income" holiday. Moot. We'll all have a two week "bugged release" holiday anyway.
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:22:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Mynobe Soletae on 31/07/2004 16:25:27
Screaming does no good. It's thinking that it does that creates all the whine on these boards.
Where did you pull that 30% from?
I'm not sure how many people actually pre-order ships and armament right now. From my point of view, if someone needs a ship they'll go buy the cheapest at the moment, no waiting. And if they need ammo, they certainly don't wait with guns empty for a "perfect" order to fill.
The only orders I see on the market are the "sucker" orders: people trying to buy stuff below recycle value, and the 1 ISK "trick the noob" orders. Yes, those are on margin, and yes, I'll be glad to see those go, personally.
Recycle value buying can still happen, if you see it below recycle value, buy it. Just it'll be a choice: either actively search, or lock some of your cash in a buy order.
Mineral prices, I do not know. It is likely that standing demand for huge volume will probably decrease considerably. However, huge manufacturing centers will probably still need the same amounts of minerals as now. So, instead of seeing a buy order for 1 Bil tritanium that sits there for a month, you'll see a smaller 10-million order that gets filled and then resubmitted daily.
We'll see.
PS. Oh yes, and the two week "income" holiday. Moot. We'll all have a two week "bugged release" holiday anyway.
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Droidster
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:27:00 -
[9]
As to "fake buy orders", how many have you actually encountered? I am a trader. I execute hundreds of buys every week. I can tell you in the last 2 months I have had a buy order fail on me exactly TWICE. We are talking <1% of trades. Also, if the player fails a buy they get fined. (Of course what they should do is pay the fine to the seller who got failed, but that is neither here or nor there).
The failed trade problem is microscopic. If you move mins to empire and the sell fails--hey you are in empire. Its not like you will have to go another 30 hops to sell your megacyte. You have to go maybe 5 hops max.
The real issue here is PRICES WILL PLUNGE. I don't know what you are thinking if you think failed buy orders are a problem. How about getting 5500 instead of 6500 for your megacyte?  Would that be a problem for you? Because that is what is going to happen if this change isn't stopped.
_____________________________________________
I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK. |
Droidster
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:27:00 -
[10]
As to "fake buy orders", how many have you actually encountered? I am a trader. I execute hundreds of buys every week. I can tell you in the last 2 months I have had a buy order fail on me exactly TWICE. We are talking <1% of trades. Also, if the player fails a buy they get fined. (Of course what they should do is pay the fine to the seller who got failed, but that is neither here or nor there).
The failed trade problem is microscopic. If you move mins to empire and the sell fails--hey you are in empire. Its not like you will have to go another 30 hops to sell your megacyte. You have to go maybe 5 hops max.
The real issue here is PRICES WILL PLUNGE. I don't know what you are thinking if you think failed buy orders are a problem. How about getting 5500 instead of 6500 for your megacyte? Would that be a problem for you? Because that is what is going to happen if this change isn't stopped.
_____________________________________________
I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK. |
AsheRaven
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:31:00 -
[11]
I have encountered many
And me being a miner, as wel as a fighter and producer, I can live with it. Be much easier to buld my ships from then on.
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AsheRaven
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:31:00 -
[12]
I have encountered many
And me being a miner, as wel as a fighter and producer, I can live with it. Be much easier to buld my ships from then on.
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Droidster
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:36:00 -
[13]
30%
I picked this number as a rough estimate of what the price will drop on the most heavily traded commodities, mins. Like I said the price will probably drop a minimum 15% in core empire and 40-50% in outlying areas, so I averaged this to 30% overall min price decrease. This is based on estimates of what will happen to big corp buyer's liquidity. Traders like me will have liquidity cut 90%. I will have to pull 90% of my orders off the market and btw I don't make bogus orders.
Freight, armaments etc will drop to ZERO. a 100% decrease in price. Get ready to recycle (or trash in the case of freight) because you will not be able to sell these goods at any reasonable price (except to NPCs who are far away in most cases).
_____________________________________________
I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK. |
Droidster
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:36:00 -
[14]
30%
I picked this number as a rough estimate of what the price will drop on the most heavily traded commodities, mins. Like I said the price will probably drop a minimum 15% in core empire and 40-50% in outlying areas, so I averaged this to 30% overall min price decrease. This is based on estimates of what will happen to big corp buyer's liquidity. Traders like me will have liquidity cut 90%. I will have to pull 90% of my orders off the market and btw I don't make bogus orders.
Freight, armaments etc will drop to ZERO. a 100% decrease in price. Get ready to recycle (or trash in the case of freight) because you will not be able to sell these goods at any reasonable price (except to NPCs who are far away in most cases).
_____________________________________________
I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK. |
loladoll
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:43:00 -
[15]
could you post a link to this statement?
This would influence the way i conduct my trading enormously (to the worse)
It would also benefit those people who are already so filthy rich they can afford to put aside the money
Because you ask so nicely, i'll SCREAM 
______________________________________
live is tough and then you get a clone |
loladoll
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:43:00 -
[16]
could you post a link to this statement?
This would influence the way i conduct my trading enormously (to the worse)
It would also benefit those people who are already so filthy rich they can afford to put aside the money
Because you ask so nicely, i'll SCREAM
______________________________________
live is tough and then you get a clone |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:48:00 -
[17]
I live by the buy orders, way to **** the game up even more for everyone except the ritalin kids CCP.
Why not eliminate the market altogether and have a giant spamfest on the trade channel?
Convert Stations
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:48:00 -
[18]
I live by the buy orders, way to **** the game up even more for everyone except the ritalin kids CCP.
Why not eliminate the market altogether and have a giant spamfest on the trade channel?
Convert Stations
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:48:00 -
[19]
this will not drop the prices of minerals.
just because one person cant put up a buy order for 1bn trit, that doesnt stop 100 people putting up buy orders for 10mil trit. You did know that buy orders of the same price stack behind eachother, taking that into accoutn totally nulls the crap your talking
This change will help newer players and will stop others from clogging the markets with huge buy orders.
And if miners do sell for lower than they want to then they only have themselves to blame, as nobody forces any1 to sell anything, personally i put up sell orders for everything i sell and never fill in other players buy orders.
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:48:00 -
[20]
this will not drop the prices of minerals.
just because one person cant put up a buy order for 1bn trit, that doesnt stop 100 people putting up buy orders for 10mil trit. You did know that buy orders of the same price stack behind eachother, taking that into accoutn totally nulls the crap your talking
This change will help newer players and will stop others from clogging the markets with huge buy orders.
And if miners do sell for lower than they want to then they only have themselves to blame, as nobody forces any1 to sell anything, personally i put up sell orders for everything i sell and never fill in other players buy orders.
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:49:00 -
[21]
Every order that is on margin has the potential to fail. Honestly all I have to do is accumulate and hit you with a huge load of minerals that you didn't expect. But anyway, it doesn't happen often, so yeah, the reason for the change is bogus. However, the change may get rid of some pricing scams that are going on right now, and if you need the minerals you will still buy the same volume, just with smaller orders.
30% was your estimate, ok, enough said. No need to further justify it by inventing additional numbers, I accept it as your estimate and expert opinion. We'll see what happens; you could be right.
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:49:00 -
[22]
Every order that is on margin has the potential to fail. Honestly all I have to do is accumulate and hit you with a huge load of minerals that you didn't expect. But anyway, it doesn't happen often, so yeah, the reason for the change is bogus. However, the change may get rid of some pricing scams that are going on right now, and if you need the minerals you will still buy the same volume, just with smaller orders.
30% was your estimate, ok, enough said. No need to further justify it by inventing additional numbers, I accept it as your estimate and expert opinion. We'll see what happens; you could be right.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:51:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Sinist on 31/07/2004 16:52:45
Fined? All you have to do is make an alt and put out fake buy orders for the most expensive price. THen you affectively close the buy order market down. Noone is going to put a buy order out for more thenw hat the epxloiter put because they would be an idiot.
You just transfer 1 billion isk to an alt and amke him do a whole bunch of buy orders. Then transfer the funds back.
When people go to complete the buy orders the person has no money left and it remains there until it is fulfilled. Then the exploiter rinses and repeats.
Its amazing that people fulfill legitimate buy orders at all. And its even more amazing that they are only coming up with a solution now instead of 8 months ago.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:51:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Sinist on 31/07/2004 16:52:45
Fined? All you have to do is make an alt and put out fake buy orders for the most expensive price. THen you affectively close the buy order market down. Noone is going to put a buy order out for more thenw hat the epxloiter put because they would be an idiot.
You just transfer 1 billion isk to an alt and amke him do a whole bunch of buy orders. Then transfer the funds back.
When people go to complete the buy orders the person has no money left and it remains there until it is fulfilled. Then the exploiter rinses and repeats.
Its amazing that people fulfill legitimate buy orders at all. And its even more amazing that they are only coming up with a solution now instead of 8 months ago.
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:51:00 -
[25]
I like this idea, it makes things a bit more difficult and will make people think a bit more.
But it does seem alot of people dont want a challenge in the game
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:51:00 -
[26]
I like this idea, it makes things a bit more difficult and will make people think a bit more.
But it does seem alot of people dont want a challenge in the game
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:54:00 -
[27]
So what, just fine the entire account to get at the alt scammers then, no beheadings for a single pimple on the nose thank you.
This is overkill as usual when trying to fix something, veto, veto I say!
Convert Stations
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.07.31 16:54:00 -
[28]
So what, just fine the entire account to get at the alt scammers then, no beheadings for a single pimple on the nose thank you.
This is overkill as usual when trying to fix something, veto, veto I say!
Convert Stations
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.07.31 17:02:00 -
[29]
overkill lol
People like you putting up buy orders that you cannot afford is overkill mate
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.07.31 17:02:00 -
[30]
overkill lol
People like you putting up buy orders that you cannot afford is overkill mate
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