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% speed of SP gain in relation to SP held....

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Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:10:00 - [1] Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:12:29 I was just wondering why CCP never considered this to cater to the newbie complaints and still allow the veterans their higher SP's. Let me explain in more detail Depending on the level of SP you have your speed at learning or should I say amount of SP gained is increased or decreased by a percentage So for example when you have 1mil SP with x amount in learning skills then you gain 500% extra SP when learning skills. This obviously can change slightly through the learning skills. This would allow for a quicker transition at lower skill levels and thus new people would feel a quicker progression through the lower SP levels. As you gain more and more SP lets say upto 5million SP then that static variable changes from 500% to 400% so you slow down on SP gain. This would continue until a set 100% a kind of plateau at say 50million SP or higher it would obviously have to be tested. It wouldn't drop below this plateau. When expansions and such are released with lots more skills etc then the percentage for each tier can be increased again This would eliminate the complaints by new people that they will never catch up with high level characters, and at the same time it would appease veterans because it would take A LONG time for people to actually catch up and so would hardly be noticeable to veterans. I really think it would allow for a greater retention of players, because for ALOT of people I have tried to convert to eve there first complaint is that they will never catch up with veterans so what is the point...ignorant yes, but it is a reality that blocks alot of people from playing this wonderful game Any comments welcome, of course you can ostracise me if you so choose

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:12:00 - [2] It's not about the amount of SP, it's how you use it.

Lui Kai Logistics Incorporated	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:13:00 - [3] People who are worried about "catching up" in SP have really not figured out how Eve works.
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:14:00 - [4] Yeah but to the majority of new players higher numbers will always appear better Its basic semantics of MMORPG's if you are lvl 1 you are crap compared to a lvl 40 If you have 10million SP you are crap compared to a 30million SP character, you and I know this isn't true, but to the ignorant new player they can't help but make this assertion
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:16:00 - [5] Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:12:29 I was just wondering why CCP never considered this to cater to the newbie complaints and still allow the veterans their higher SP's. Oh gosh, a game? That gives higher rewards for spending time with the game? Noooooo. Let me rephrase that; Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. It's called character development.
Myfanwy Pisces P H O E N I X	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:17:00 - [6] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:12:29 I was just wondering why CCP never considered this to cater to the newbie complaints and still allow the veterans their higher SP's. Oh gosh, a game? That gives higher rewards for spending time with the game? Noooooo. Let me rephrase that; Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. It's called character development. Someones been watching zero punctuation Good on ya, I only found that last night...
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Lui Kai People who are worried about "catching up" in SP have really not figured out how Eve works. ^^ This. Originally by: Loneez If you have 10million SP you are crap compared to a 30million SP character, you and I know this isn't true, but to the ignorant new player they can't help but make this assertion So the solution is to educate them, not to pander to their flawed assumptions. Also, your idea kind of goes against the EVE philosophy of diminishing returns from training higher skill levels.
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:23:01 But people don't want to be educated when they first start a game, they just want to jump in and have fun Without that element they lose interest and leave. Without the feeling of progression they leave Either that or you just sub a month leave your character training and not return till he hits 10mill SP in like 4-5months or longer Explaining to players that 30million SP is no better than 10million SP is like saying to your partner "It's ok honey its not the size that counts, its what you do with it!" Everyone knows thats a comment to save the ego of less endowed gentlemen, but in reality everyone knows it DOES matter, so why bother trying to educate people into convincing themselves it doesn't
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:25:00 - [9] Edited by: Ralitge boyter on 30/01/2009 09:25:44 I wonder if you ever thought about CCP and their customer satisfaction? What I mean is when I am an older character lest say playing for the past 4 years I have thus paid CCP $717,- just to play EVE. Now a new player joins eve they are able to train at 500% of my speed till they get close to where I am at currently... this speed increase will also have to be higher and higher as time goes on because of course once I add another $717,- to my subscription fee then I will end up at roughly double my current number of skill points thus the new players will have to train at a 1000% of my speed in order to be able to catch up with me. In the end you will end up with a player getting 100M sp in a week or so, maening that you will need to change your skills every milisecond or so... All players will kill their characters every few months to start over with faster training and a more specialized character, so no more older players in the game only a large group of week old characters. On top of that you want to gain on me because you choose to start later. So you want all my time, money and effort I have put in to this game to be void. I don't see how that would keep people who are currently playing happy. Yes new players will be happy but many of the old players will leave as they see all their hard work disapear and all their time and money become worthless. Some how I doubt that CCP will ever want people to "catch up" as a new player might quite tomorrow, where a person that has been playing for months or even years is far more likely to continue doing so for a long time to come. So please stop comming up with wonderful new ways for new players to catch up it will never happen because CCP knows very well that their game will only continue to exist as long as there are older players that the new players can look up to and can strive to beat someday.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Lui Kai People who are worried about "catching up" in SP have really not figured out how Eve works. This. Also the threshold of 50 million SPs put forth by the OP as the place to slow training down to normal is just ridiculous. Do you guys have any comprehension of how many skills you can get to 4/5 with 50 million SPs? It's huge, unless you spec entirely into the most point-intensive stuff.
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:32:00 - [11] Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:32:42 You last couple of guys really don't understand what I am stating are you..... I am not suggesting increasing to 1000% or anything like that, and besides when you add another $717 to your character new characters will begin with probably 10million SP to the 1million SP they get now..so...where is your point? The suggestion just allows younger characters to move through the lower set of SP skills quicker Just because you gave CCP $717 doesn't mean they owe you some kind of satisfaction. They are a business aiming to increase there turnover and introduce new players so you can enjoy more PvP or greater PvE or even better expansions because they have the money to do it. The 50million SP is a suggestion, read that sentence over and over, a S U G G E S S T I O N its open to interpretation and is just a number pulled from thin air. If I was to write out a full proposal it would involve consultation from experienced Eve players etc etc I can't see what the problem is with allowing players who just start out with a higher % of speed gain in SP Its no different than someone buying the boxed version of Eve and having 10million SP from the get go...don't see you screaming blue murder about this prospect...? Or you gonna throw out the money you spent on CCP again to justify your reasoning for them catering the game to you choice...
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:32:00 - [12] honestly eve should instead list a number called something like... Character Skill level this takes each point of skill levels you have gained and makes a number. so if you have all your skills at level 4, but only 20 million sp, it will show your character skill level as the total of skill level. so a level 4 skill gives you 4 points. This shows you how many actually skills you have, not how long you have been playing. so you could have 500 skill levels, but only 20 million sp, while another character with 40 million sp only has 400 skill levels. the character with less sp is actually more effective in combat, so that player should have a higher skill level number. more sp doesn't mean more skills.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:33:00 - [13] Originally by: Loneez But people don't want to be educated when they first start a game, Tough. All new games require education. Quote: they just want to jump in and have fun They already can. Quote: Without that element they lose interest and leave. Without what element, exactly? If they don't have fun due to how skills are trained, I'd say that their view of "fun" is such that we're better off without them. They'll probably have a great time in some bot-infested FPS (because that's the kind of players they are), and are free to stay there… Quote: Without the feeling of progression they leave Eh? You start to progress the second you understand "rclick-train skill"… Once again, it's a matter of education. Quote: Either that or you just sub a month leave your character training and not return till he hits 10mill SP in like 4-5months or longer Fortunately, you can't do that any more… Quote: Explaining to players that 30million SP is no better than 10million SP is like saying to your partner "It's ok honey its not the size that counts, its what you do with it!" Everyone knows thats a comment to save the ego of less endowed gentlemen, but in reality everyone knows it DOES matter, so why bother trying to educate people into convincing themselves it doesn't So don't use that analogy? A better question is: why change the system to match an entirely incorrect view of the game?
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Myfanwy Pisces Someones been watching zero punctuation Good on ya, I only found that last night... Yahtzee didn't invent sarcasm you know My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Maria Kalista	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:23:01 But people don't want to be educated when they first start a game, they just want to jump in and have fun And in EVE that means you will probably die. Originally by: Loneez Without that element they lose interest and leave. Then this was not the game for them anyway. I hear WoW is still around. Originally by: Loneez Without the feeling of progression they leave I restarted 5 months ago from scratch. No isk insertion, I just went in like a normal noob. After character creation I had my mining skills up to 5, and after doing all 3 noob agent missions I had 4-5 ships, a ton of skillbooks, a couple of blueprints and near a million isk. How is that for progression? Originally by: Loneez Either that or you just sub a month leave your character training and not return till he hits 10mill SP in like 4-5months or longer I'm 5.5 months old have a bit more then 6 million SP and am soloing lvl 4's (mostly) with ease. Originally by: Loneez Explaining to players that 30million SP is no better than 10million SP is like saying to your partner "It's ok honey its not the size that counts, its what you do with it!" Exactly! Originally by: AkRoYeR ...the beauty of EvE. You have to live on the edge all the time. If you don't stay frosty, you will die! Best game ever!
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:41:00 - [16] Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:45:00 Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:43:08 Quote: Without what element, exactly? If they don't have fun due to how skills are trained, I'd say that their view of "fun" is such that we're better off without them. They'll probably have a great time in some bot-infested FPS (because that's the kind of players they are), and are free to stay thereà Its alienating comments like that, that make you even worse than a WoW-kiddie. Just because you play Eve doesn't make you better or more superior to other gamers. In fact the whole ethos you adopt there is a key reason why CCP can't get abover 60,000 unique subscribers and quote 250,000 subscribers when in reality we all know that at least a third of those subscribers are alts of people. Its just I have tried to introduce many of my friends to this game recently and they are educated PHD students and they cannot believe me when I state that someone with 10million SP can be just as good with someone with 50million SP as long as they train in the same area It just doesn't make sense to them, because they then bring in the fact that the versatility in skills allows them a greater choice in varying combat scenarios and therefore they don't see the point in beginning in a game where they are forever playing catchup. In games like Dark Ages of Camelot of EQ2 even if people are in raid gear and such, the perception is still that an individual person can catch them up if they put in the effort. You and I know that they probably never will catch up the raid gear person because as new content is released they will go into the new raid content and such the catch up game begins But its the perception, the perception that YOU CAN catch that person up. In Eve this perception is just impossible with the methodology attached to skilling up
Nicholas Barker Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:44:00 - [17] y'all be posting in a troll thread, that or he's a stubborn idiot. ------
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:45:00 - [18] People with lots of skill points already progress at a slower rate than new players. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:47:00 - [19] Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:47:55 Originally by: Nicholas Barker y'all be posting in a troll thread, that or he's a stubborn idiot. I am not trolling I am making a valid point, besides the fact that CCP is going to make an announcement which quoting from a CSM "Is going to make new players very happy, and annoy veterans" makes me wonder if this is an approach they may be considering Of course I probably completely off the mark but this stubborness to alienate new players is a key reason why you see 100,000 new subscribers+ to eve leave within the first 3 months Am I not able to have a discussion about skill point system changes without people trying to lynch me?
Cors It's A Trap	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:50:00 - [20] It takes 6 months to be GOOD at something in EVE. It takes years to be good at MANY things. My main is good at MANY things. My newest alt is good at ONE thing. If you are a new player, learn to be good at ONE thing. Once you are, then become good at ANOTHER thing. Keep this up and one day you'll be good at MANY things. This is the difference between a noob and a veteran. Drop this idea of skills "Speeding up/Slowing down" depending on how old the char is.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Loneez I am not trolling I am making a valid point, It's not though and furthermore, new players start with 1000% higher SP then we did already. If you think you had it rough with 900k SP, try starting with 90k My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Loneez But its the perception, the perception that YOU CAN catch that person up. In Eve this perception is just impossible with the methodology attached to skilling up Funny that, seeing as how the exact opposite is true. Explain to your stupid PhD friends (one does not exclude the other, unfortunately) about the low skill level caps, about the diminishing returns for higher levels, about the special-use and usage restriction cases that make versatility highly situational, about the many many ways of playing the game which also make versatiliy less effective since you can't be competetive in everything, about the fact that you can lose skillpoints, etc etc etc. I told my PhD friends about this, and they got a very dreamy look in their eyes… and then they remembered that they don't like permaloss-PvP, and decided that EVE wasn't for them. I told them that that was probably a sensible decision. Which leads back to the same old question: why does the system need changing to match an ignorant view of how the game works? What's so bad about not retaining players who don't like the game, and who actively refuse to be educated in why they might like it? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:53:00 - [23] Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:54:28 Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:53:36 Originally by: Cors Drop this idea of skills "Speeding up/Slowing down" depending on how old the char is. Fair enough I'll drop it, just another statistical loss for CCP losing another subscriber due to the "6months needed to be good" at something Remind me in future when I have to spend ú13 x 6months = ú78 to actually become good at the game in one area or ú13 x 12 months = ú156 to actually dare I say become possibly good in more than one area.... Cheers
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:53:36 Originally by: Cors Drop this idea of skills "Speeding up/Slowing down" depending on how old the char is. Fair enough I'll drop it, just another statistical loss for CCP losing another subscriber due to the "6months needed to be good" at something Remind me in future when I have to spend ú13 x 6months = ú78 to actually become good at the game in one area Cheers Any other MMO out there, not gonna say it, requires you to spend time, not gonna say it, to get good and to reach the level twitches others are on. It's no different here. It shouldn't be. It takes time to get good, like in WoW DAMN! you can't expect to "pwn" a level 80 when you "jump in". My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:57:00 - [25] you can catch up. idiot, learn some math.
Yelan Zhou Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:57:00 - [26] As a semi new player I can only say the op is wrong.I am 5 months here now and that time was a blast.I pvp since my second week in EvE and sure, there are lots of things I cant do, guess what, I have goals. I joined EvE because I am tired of MMOs spoonfeeding me so please leave it as it is.
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:58:00 - [27] Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:58:14 Originally by: Sheriff Jones Any other MMO out there, not gonna say it, requires you to spend time, not gonna say it, to get good and to reach the level twitches others are on. It's no different here. It shouldn't be. It takes time to get good, like in WoW DAMN! you can't expect to "pwn" a level 80 when you "jump in". Fair point
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:59:00 - [28] Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 10:00:32 Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:59:49 Originally by: Yelan Zhou As a semi new player I can only say the op is wrong.I am 5 months here now and that time was a blast.I pvp since my second week in EvE and sure, there are lots of things I cant do, guess what, I have goals. I joined EvE because I am tired of MMOs spoonfeeding me so please leave it as it is. I am not asking Eve to spoon feed, what part of speeding up skill points gain, is exactly spoon feeding? I am not talking about a dramatic speed increase just something to give the impression people can catch up Wow the internet really is an amazing place for understanding, I have no idea where spoonfeeding came into this? And where did I say speeding up Skillpoint gain would prevent people from having goals, or diminish those goals....? Totally confused by that post
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Yelan Zhou As a semi new player I can only say the op is wrong.I am 5 months here now and that time was a blast.I pvp since my second week in EvE and sure, there are lots of things I cant do, guess what, I have goals. I joined EvE because I am tired of MMOs spoonfeeding me so please leave it as it is. and in the time you learn all those new skills and increased your effectivness in battle.. you know what? an onlder player only gain 2 or 4 levels. While you have gained at least 30-40 levels. newer players level up faster in eve, it's how it was set up.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Loneez I am not trolling I am making a valid point, besides the fact that CCP is going to make an announcement which quoting from a CSM "Is going to make new players very happy, and annoy veterans" makes me wonder if this is an approach they may be considering Except that that wasn't quite what he said, now was it? Quote: Of course I probably completely off the mark but this stubborness to alienate new players is a key reason why you see 100,000 new subscribers+ to eve leave within the first 3 months You have a source for this, I hope? Quote: Am I not able to have a discussion about skill point system changes without people trying to lynch me? Sure you can, as long as you don't suggest things that make no sense, with a logic that's entirely based on how it doesn't work in this game. Education is a far better way of changing those perceptions you so fear, rather than adding another layer of misdirection on top of those already flawed views.
Yelan Zhou Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:03:00 - [31] Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:59:49 Originally by: Yelan Zhou As a semi new player I can only say the op is wrong.I am 5 months here now and that time was a blast.I pvp since my second week in EvE and sure, there are lots of things I cant do, guess what, I have goals. I joined EvE because I am tired of MMOs spoonfeeding me so please leave it as it is. I am not asking Eve to spoon feed, what part of speeding up skill points gain, is exactly spoon feeding? I am not talking about a dramatic speed increase just something to give the impression people can catch up Wow the internet really is an amazing place for understanding, I have no idea where spoonfeeding came into this? But I catch up.At the begining I was flying Executioners as gang tacklers and had shaking knees when an Interceptor engaged me.Now I fly Interceptors also and yes, I have still shortcomings, but I can hold my own against other Interceptors now.
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:09:00 - [32] Originally by: Tippia Education is a far better way of changing those perceptions you so fear, rather than adding another layer of misdirection on top of those already flawed views. A very valid point, so how does CCP educate players into understanding this distinction in the game? I mean the key problem with Eve becoming even more successful, because lets be honest it is truly an amazing game, is the accessibility for new players How do we translate that education for new players into an understanding that SP numbers don't really matter....?
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:11:00 - [33] Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 10:12:13 Originally by: Tippia Except that that wasn't quite what he said, now was it? He said Quote: "I think new players (and the not new players) will like the changes. As I said, the dev blog about it should be pretty in-depth, and while some of it may shock the 'vets' I personally think it's an awesome change they are making." Which suggests either more SP for new players...or a new change to the system of SP, or a new change in the amount of ISK new players received The fact he states that it will make NOT SO NEW players happy, suggests to me it can't be something to do with the starting SP
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:27:00 - [34] Originally by: Loneez Quote: "I think new players (and the not new players) will like the changes. As I said, the dev blog about it should be pretty in-depth, and while some of it may shock the 'vets' I personally think it's an awesome change they are making." Which suggests either more SP for new players...or a new change to the system of SP, or a new change in the amount of ISK new players received The fact he states that it will make NOT SO NEW players happy, suggests to me it can't be something to do with the starting SP Which does not suggest any changes to SP. and how would 'increased starting SP' be a OMGWTFBBQ moment? Suggest some changes to how new players get their SP, or something similar. Perhaps with the certificates or something.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:28:00 - [35] god damn it. nvm. for some reason the op thinks sp means something. honestly I have an idea. Remove the total sp count from the character screen. in fact if you want proof that sp means nothing in eve go over the character selling forum. a character with more sp but no level 5 skills will sell for less than a character that is totaly OMG pimped out to fly one ship.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:30:00 - [36] Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:23:01 But people don't want to be educated when they first start a game Then they're in the one game that will specifically never suit them. EvE is all about continuously learning, adapting and improving.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:34:00 - [37] Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:23:01 But people don't want to be educated when they first start a game, they just want to jump in and have fun Without that element they lose interest and leave. Then we don't want them. Eve is a niche game, we don't want every idiot on the internet to come.
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:38:00 - [38] Suppose they are very valid points and it is a niche game Would just like to see more new players and not so many alts....
Jukhta Mein Domini Umbrus R.U.R.	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:38:00 - [39] If you're frustrated because you are earning alot of ISK but don't have a outlet to spend the ISK, maybe because you dont have the SP to fly battleships or whatever, spend some ISK on good implants and wait the week or so out u need to fly that new ship. If you're frustrated because you can never catch up with older players, you can catch up and easily overtake them in ISK, why don't you consider that? With the ISK go start up your POS or corp and start carving an empire for yourself. When you've done that you'll realise not only have you caught up with older players, SPs don't really matter.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:41:00 - [40] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 30/01/2009 10:41:19 Originally by: TimMc Then we don't want them. Eve is a niche game, we don't want every idiot on the internet to come. Not really, it's a good space MMO, that's the niche
Loneez	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Jukhta Mein If you're frustrated because you are earning alot of ISK but don't have a outlet to spend the ISK, maybe because you dont have the SP to fly battleships or whatever, spend some ISK on good implants and wait the week or so out u need to fly that new ship. If you're frustrated because you can never catch up with older players, you can catch up and easily overtake them in ISK, why don't you consider that? With the ISK go start up your POS or corp and start carving an empire for yourself. When you've done that you'll realise not only have you caught up with older players, SPs don't really matter. Thanks Jukhta, I just find I play lots, end up with lots of ISK and then sit there thinking....hmm 14days for that skill what do I do now...oh more missions, more mining...and then I wait 7days...and I am like what now, I know joining a corp is the way forward...but the lack of coherent timesinks can sometimes get to me
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:20:00 - [42] New players can have 15 mill chars. Buy 2 GTC's, buy Char. They will be an EBay char and will get owned because they didn't learn that it doesn't matter what you can fit. It matters that you know what it does. The problem is there is no way to learn. Fit a T1 cruiser with T1 fittings and go out and PvP. You get spanked. Go out and fit the T2 Variation with T2 fittings, you will still get spanked. In most cases, it's the wrong ship. T1, T2, it was the wrong ship. Count the number of ships you can fly, compare them to the number that you could fly. That's how usefull you are in EvE. Races make ships for wars that never happen. PvP is 4 races at war with everyone. Amarr doesn't have ships designed to kill Caldari ships. Minmitar will fail when facing Gallente fleets. These are things Vets come to learn and no amount of SP will preove it to a new to EvE player.
Dwain Chambers Big S Triangle	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:21:00 - [43] 50 million SP pure PvP character and it's still going to take me over a year to turn the character into, what I consider to be, a decently skilled pilot. These aren't uber hardcore skills either, just training for things I can't fly at the moment that many chars with half my SP can: command ships; logistics; interdictors etc and only for 2 races. However in March CCP are going to release T3 ships and to use these I'll probably have to train a load more new skills and pre-reqs. Why is this relevant to you? Well, like me, you'll probably never have as many SP as you want whether you have 5mill or 50mill... learn to live with it. (Having said that, learning skills are pretty ******ed and I reckon there is a case to be made for new chars starting with at least the basic learning skills to 4 or even 5)
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:56:00 - [44] Edited by: Ralitge boyter on 30/01/2009 12:06:10 Edited by: Ralitge boyter on 30/01/2009 12:06:04 Quote: Its just I have tried to introduce many of my friends to this game recently and they are educated PHD students and they cannot believe me when I state that someone with 10million SP can be just as good with someone with 50million SP as long as they train in the same area Clearly your friends are good at studying but not that smart in the end... Anyway lets say CCP gives in to your ridiculous ideas and grandÆs you your battleship in lets say a week, then there are people out there flying a Marauder and a Orca which both take months to train for should they also give you those then to give you the illusion that you can catch up? Do you feel better when you are willingly living in a lie and believing in an impossible possibility? Because that is what you are asking for, even besides the money issue that older player will grumble over, there is the simple but hang on I spend all this time to do this why would they get it so easily handed to them issue. CCP will do what they can to make more and more people play this game and yes they are a commercial company that is in it for the money of course. But why should they make you believe a lie? What is your obsession with the lie that you want CCP to so very much tell you that you can catch up? You initially stated you wanted people to have the ability to catch up, now you are saying they need to have the feeling they can yet we all know that they cannot. I think more people would turn away from a game that made it a selling point to lie to them rather then making it a challenge to play the game admitting that there will always be people that have more skills then you do because they simply have been playing longer. Maybe EVE is not a game for people that like to be lied to, maybe EVE is a game for people that are smart enough to see that you can max a certain set of skills out in a relatively short amount of time making you the best you can be in that field regardless of how bad you are in others. People that cannot understand that like your friends for instance have no business playing EVE because that is one of the simplest and most basic of game mechanics in the game. If you try and explain to them that the traversal velocity of the enemy ship and the tracking rate of your guns as well as his guns have an effect on how well you can fight your opponent and that you will want to keep them at an optimal range but should not forget about the falloff that comes with a certain type of ammo, etc. then you will make their poor little heads explode.
bitters much Nekkid Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:05:00 - [45] Edited by: bitters much on 30/01/2009 12:06:06 Tbh, there need to be some kind of punishment for people that stick so long with WOW instead of playing EVE, so it is good as it is atm.
Gonada Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:13:00 - [46] dear OP: each skill level only goes up to 5 therefore the 5 mill SP player that specialized in say, assauly frigs, will have the exact same skills for that hip as a 50 mill SP player. you come off all high and mighty, educated and such, but it you or your friends cannot wrap your sillyputty minds around this basic tenant, then you better stay with games you can handle. may I suggest WoW? Please, jump into traffic
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:18:00 - [47] Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 30/01/2009 12:18:29 Originally by: Loneez Yeah but to the majority of new players higher numbers will always appear better Its basic semantics of MMORPG's if you are lvl 1 you are crap compared to a lvl 40 If you have 10million SP you are crap compared to a 30million SP character, you and I know this isn't true, but to the ignorant new player they can't help but make this assertion EVE really doesnt cater to those kind of people. (serious) EVE politics and piloting is completely void of p3nis envy. Look at titans for example, soo not phallus symbols. (Not so serious) ----------------- Friends Forever
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:20:00 - [48] Originally by: Loneez Originally by: Jukhta Mein If you're frustrated because you are earning alot of ISK but don't have a outlet to spend the ISK, maybe because you dont have the SP to fly battleships or whatever, spend some ISK on good implants and wait the week or so out u need to fly that new ship. If you're frustrated because you can never catch up with older players, you can catch up and easily overtake them in ISK, why don't you consider that? With the ISK go start up your POS or corp and start carving an empire for yourself. When you've done that you'll realise not only have you caught up with older players, SPs don't really matter. Thanks Jukhta, I just find I play lots, end up with lots of ISK and then sit there thinking....hmm 14days for that skill what do I do now...oh more missions, more mining...and then I wait 7days...and I am like what now, I know joining a corp is the way forward...but the lack of coherent timesinks can sometimes get to me Buy faction gear, it don't require level 5 skills and will burn away your extra isk in no ime.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:21:00 - [49] Originally by: Chribba It's not about the amount of SP, it's how you use it. e.g. mining Veldspar in 1.0 with 100m SP ... How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:28:00 - [50] If people don't want to be educated when they start to play Eve. They need to find another game. I've been playing for 4.5 years and I'm STILL learning / relearning things. Turn back now, run, hide, for learning new things is what makes this game great.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Lord Fitz If people don't want to be educated when they start to play Eve. They need to find another game. I've been playing for 4.5 years and I'm STILL learning / relearning things. Turn back now, run, hide, for learning new things is what makes this game great. ^^ This. The day EVE stops teaching me new stuff, I'm out of here. I don't see it happening any time soon…
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:40:00 - [52] One thing I recently noticed... Out of all the SPs you can possibly invest in a skill, any skill, it takes exactly 17.7% of the total to train it to level 4. You can train any skill in the entire game to a point where you get 80% of its maximum benefit in less than one fifth the time it takes a 'vet' to train it all the way up. This is the key to becoming effective quickly, and always has been. 'Vets', like me I guess (even though I still feel like a noob most of the time :P) spend literally 80+% of their time training level 5 crap. Now, of course, there's a lot of ****block skills that you need at level 5 as they're prerequs for T2 gear and higher tier skills, but those are usually skills you'll want to prioritize to training to level 5 quickly anyway (in the long run, of course). Also, EvE is not a solo game. If you're in a fair fight you're doing it wrong, and most frigate-based roles aren't very SP dependent, if pvp is your thing.
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Firestar Drive Yards	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:48:00 - [53] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Myfanwy Pisces Someones been watching zero punctuation Good on ya, I only found that last night... Yahtzee didn't invent sarcasm you know He just transformed it into an art.
svetlana Constellation Guard	Posted - 2009.01.30 13:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:12:29 ... cater to the newbie complaints and still allow the veterans their higher SP's. I am pretty sure that NOTHING a game company could change would stop 'newbie complaints':) Originally by: Loneez ...Depending on the level of SP you have your speed at learning or should I say amount of SP gained is increased or decreased by a percentage... eve skill system already does this, it is built in. you are just asking for it to go even faster than it already does. Originally by: Loneez ... would eliminate the complaints by new people that they will never catch up with high level characters, ... there is no need to catch up to 'vetrans' in eve. in other MMO's you are completely useless as a low level character. eve is one of the most unique MMO's around where even a low level character could be useful. Originally by: Loneez I really think it would allow for a greater retention of players, ... it would be the opposite. for example: if i was able to create a high level character in WOW quicker, i would have gotten bored faster and quit in 1 month, instead of 6 months. it is LESS important to skill up fast, it is MORE important that the game is fundamentally enjoyable no matter what 'level' you are at. if your casual gamer friends don't enjoy playing eve at a low level then quite honestly, they wouldn't enjoy playing it at a high level either. if you don't enjoy playing eve as a low sp character than you really should leave immediately and play something else. i have several 5 year characters but i still enjoy playing my low sp alts in little fast ships. character level was purposely undefined in eve in lieu of an sp system, and that was a good thing since it has NOTHING to do with how enjoyable this single server universe is. additionally, there is no need at all to be concerned that eve has a 'problem' with player retention, to the point of changing gameplay... eve has grown a small and dedicated player population steadily over 5 years, while other MMO's have come and gone like flavors of the month as they frantically try to cash in on similar casual gamer mechanics. you can jump on the bandwagon and play a vanilla game with 10 million players, or play something rewarding and different with a much smaller player base. that goes for gaming in general, not just eve. i would prefer to play with a smaller population of dedicated gamers who share the same desire for a harsh and unforgiving game universe [which is pretty darn refreshing considering the alternatives], than to soften the game to appeal to an entirely different crowd who cannot appreciate the uniqueness of eve... and would leave anyway the moment their blood elf was needed in raid:) we do not want 'alot of people' to play eve, we want 'alot of people who enjoy this sort of game' to play eve. it is not about being elite. it is about how people in general have differnt tastes, so catering to a majority common denominator would remove any uniqueness that made eve interesting in the first place. -svet
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.30 13:26:00 - [55] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Lord Fitz If people don't want to be educated when they start to play Eve. They need to find another game. I've been playing for 4.5 years and I'm STILL learning / relearning things. Turn back now, run, hide, for learning new things is what makes this game great. ^^ This. The day EVE stops teaching me new stuff, I'm out of here. I don't see it happening any time soonà Yeah. 2 years playing this game and I finally figured out how to use probes. In a few months I will figure out how to operate POS, and be a POS gunner. There are lots of things to learn for everyone.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.01.30 13:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Lord Fitz If people don't want to be educated when they start to play Eve. They need to find another game. I've been playing for 4.5 years and I'm STILL learning / relearning things. Turn back now, run, hide, for learning new things is what makes this game great. this ... I am in about the same position .. there are so many things I have yet to try ... EVE is not SP dependant, it's logic, inteligence and real life skill dependant. a 50m SP char can be worse than a bunch pf 5-8m SP chars because they know what they are doing and are good at it. skill points do not tell you how to fly/fit/use your ships ...
Linnth Amarr Darkill Corp	Posted - 2009.01.30 14:46:00 - [57] "Catching up in sp's." WoW --> ------------------- Amarr: Getting screwed since 2005!
SkeletonDenial Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.30 14:59:00 - [58] Edited by: SkeletonDenial on 30/01/2009 15:01:08 Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:23:01 But people don't want to be educated when they first start a game, they just want to jump in and have fun ... I started with only 90,000 skillpoints and I had much fun. (Still am btw) Those who aren't having any fun when they start must be doing it wrong. I do know that a 6 million combat pilot trumps a 12 million sp Jump Frieghter pilot
Digital Solaris	Posted - 2009.01.30 15:41:00 - [59] Let me turn this argument around then; I am rapidly closing in on 50 million SP and there are still numerous elements or tiers of gameplay that just are not available to me even now. Also I recently managed to get two mates of mine to give EVE a try, one of them are a wow player whose interest lies entirely in the end game and the second guy loathes MMOGs on general principle because MMOGs demand so much time! Guess which one turned his trial into a paid account?
Sidrat Flush Caldari Life is Experience Rally Against Evil	Posted - 2009.01.30 15:58:00 - [60] Your suggestion makes me think that you believe Eve Online should turn into some sort of twitch play instant gratification shootemup. It's not like that and nor would I ever want it to be like that. Within my corp there are people interested in many things that Eve has to offer, but like you they thought, past tense - that it was all about skill points. It's not - not much anyway. If you've got the skills to webify and jam a ship - any ship, then that 30M sp pilot isn't doing anything about it, yet you're tech 1 cruiser possibly with meta 4 level mods, possibly vanilla T1 rat loot has just trumped an older character who got unfortunate. Still Eve is harsh, most players pull themselves up and keep going. What new characters may lack (and it's being addressed right now by the STAR programme) is that piece of one to one education. It's not about the skill points, it's about the team work and practice you put in to understand your strengths and weaknesses so that you can pick your own battle ground, be it market pvp or shooty pvp. Changing the skill training mechanic when it's very much intact, working as intended and not even stuttering is a recipe for disaster.
sleepyhead87	Posted - 2009.01.30 16:32:00 - [61] Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:56:57 Originally by: Cors Drop this idea of skills "Speeding up/Slowing down" depending on how old the char is. Fair enough I'll drop it, just another statistical loss for CCP losing another subscriber due to the "6months needed to be good" at something Congratulations for successfully alienating another potentially new player Remind me in future when I have to spend ú13 x 6months = ú78 to actually become good at the game in one area or ú13 x 12 months = ú156 to actually dare I say become possibly good in more than one area....until then I will sit on the 200million+ isk I have made, which I can't spend until a 31 days goes by and I can get a battleship...such FUN! Guess I will do what most people do in Eve, log off for a month and not bother coming back till the skill is trained Cheers You guys are all idiots. Can you not see that this is a slightly hidden n00b complaint? Another damn noob complaining about how he isn't where everyone else is at even though we've been here longer by up to 6 years. Why don't you complain why you're not as rich as Bill Gates while you're at it. Everyone born into the world should be as rich as him right? And btw, if it take you 31 days to learn Battleship skill level 1 (or 2, or even 3!), then you're doing something horribly horribly wrong. Go to the help channel and seek assistance immediately.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.01.30 16:53:00 - [62] Edited by: Traidor Disloyal on 30/01/2009 16:55:41 Originally by: Chribba It's not about the amount of SP, it's how you use it. I have 40 million SP and I'm still no good at PvP. Having more SP means nothing if one does not know how to fit a ship, what to do in an engagement, when to fight and when not to fight.
War Fairy	Posted - 2009.01.30 17:11:00 - [63] Originally by: Lui Kai People who are worried about "catching up" in SP have really not figured out how Eve works. THIS!
Amy Mouse	Posted - 2009.01.30 17:53:00 - [64] I dont know if anyone else said this but In eve, YOU CAN BUY CHARACTERS! if you have the money, you CAN get ahead. I think the current system is perfectly fine. Legal character trades would make your point of not being able catch up, false.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2009.01.30 18:51:00 - [65] wow is all i can say. this idea is so brilliant that we should immediately adopt it for all things. imagine having the ability to let unis pop out doctors and engineers in under a single semester for instance. seriously loneez this idea crops up regularly and it frankly sucks. the people it's designed to appeal to are exactly the kind of people WE DON'T WANT IN EVE.
TrevHead M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.30 19:06:00 - [66] Edited by: TrevHead on 30/01/2009 19:10:11 Imo T2 cruisers/T2 Bs' and caps are Eves endgame and be seen as long term goals and should take a very long time to get there, the same goes 4 having top notch skills for pvp or isk making. I would love 2 beable to fly more ship expecially caps but that doesnt to mean that i cant have fun in how im playing eve atm and i also had alot of fun when i was a noob with no skills and had picked a crap starting proffesion (market trading lol). As many other ppl have said its allways best to pick 1 or 2 ships and train solely for them, And the fact that since the speed nerf frigates are now mutch more of a viable option for pvp. I expecially love t2 ew frigs which dont need alot of support skills 2 fly it well i can fly a hyena and a kitsune. I plan on training for sentinel soon. Ill then pick a favorite and skill up 4 the cruiser version. I think alot of ppl need to get away from the grass is greener on the other side or the i need to be leet 2 have fun mentality.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.01.30 19:18:00 - [67] Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:56:57 Originally by: Cors Drop this idea of skills "Speeding up/Slowing down" depending on how old the char is. Fair enough I'll drop it, just another statistical loss for CCP losing another subscriber due to the "6months needed to be good" at something Congratulations for successfully alienating another potentially new player Remind me in future when I have to spend ú13 x 6months = ú78 to actually become good at the game in one area or ú13 x 12 months = ú156 to actually dare I say become possibly good in more than one area....until then I will sit on the 200million+ isk I have made, which I can't spend until a 31 days goes by and I can get a battleship...such FUN! Guess I will do what most people do in Eve, log off for a month and not bother coming back till the skill is trained Cheers If you think you can't do anything and have to just pay to wait for X amount of time before you can do anything, we don't want you in this game anyway. Please deposit your 200 million in my wallet on your way out. Your suggestion is trying to correct a problem that doesn't exist - if new players have a problem with the way skill training works in this game ("I don't want to wait X time"), then even speeding it up by 400% won't make it better ("Why do I have to sit around and wait an hour" instead of "why do I have to sit around and wait 5 hours"). To say you have to have 6 months of SP in order to be good at something is... silly. Some of the best ways to make money in this game require very low SP (scamming, thieving, trading, etc). You can fulfil valuable roles in a gang with just a month of training (ewar, tackle, scouting, probing, bait - anything except the core DPS really). The biggest wall for new players is the long list of skills that veteran players say "you MUST have these to level V" combined with the learning skills. The sheer number of skills that we consider mandatory is a lot larger than it seems and it's intimidating sometimes.
faxtarious Minmatar Celestial Ascension	Posted - 2009.01.30 19:30:00 - [68] Originally by: Loneez Yeah but to the majority of new players higher numbers will always appear better Its basic semantics of MMORPG's if you are lvl 1 you are crap compared to a lvl 40 If you have 10million SP you are crap compared to a 30million SP character, you and I know this isn't true, but to the ignorant new player they can't help but make this assertion that doesn't applie in EvE bud... a 5 mill SP char has an equal chance of taking down a 100 Mill SP char all you have to (as a 5 mill SP char) is learn about the game...know the ins and outs of the ship you are flying, it's mdules etc... know about PvP (meaning...know how that 100 mill char will be fitting and flying his ship) and you can have 100 mill SP in industry, while a 5 mill SP char focused on combat... bahh...why am I wasting my time... PLAY THE GAME !!! and stop comparing it to WoW or other WoW clones.
bff Jill	Posted - 2009.01.30 19:31:00 - [69] I think CCP should give me a 200million SP character named Captain Pwnerson and instead of a newbie ship he gets free fully fitted federation megathrons.
EnslaverOfMinmatar	Posted - 2009.01.30 20:04:00 - [70] Originally by: Loneez Edited by: Loneez on 30/01/2009 09:56:57 Originally by: Cors Drop this idea of skills "Speeding up/Slowing down" depending on how old the char is. Fair enough I'll drop it, just another statistical loss for CCP losing another subscriber due to the "6months needed to be good" at something Congratulations for successfully alienating another potentially new player Remind me in future when I have to spend ú13 x 6months = ú78 to actually become good at the game in one area or ú13 x 12 months = ú156 to actually dare I say become possibly good in more than one area....until then I will sit on the 200million+ isk I have made, which I can't spend until a 31 days goes by and I can get a battleship...such FUN! Guess I will do what most people do in Eve, log off for a month and not bother coming back till the skill is trained Cheers i can haz all ur crappy stuff?
Lochmar Fiendhiem Caldari Quicksilver Industries and Painful Effects Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.30 20:20:00 - [71] All they need to do is refer people to the forums. A host of knowledge is held in these forums in both the skills section and the ships & modules section. The tutorial should direct people to those two forums specifically as a lot of fun can be had by several really low (800-900k sp) characters if they knew how to properly fit rifters/merlins/kessies/punishers/tristans for pvp. It's how big it is, it's how you use it.
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes B.L.A.C.K.	Posted - 2009.02.01 03:55:00 - [72] Knowlage is everything. Just because something is T1, doesn't mean it's going to be beaten by T2. Work out how to gank intercepters with a T1 fitted T1 frig. You'll probably lose a couple of ships for every kill, but it's oh so fun. It can be done quite easily too, IF you know how. Just fit out the ship, for that ONE purpose.
amGreat	Posted - 2009.02.01 05:47:00 - [73] Originally by: Cors It takes 6 months to be GOOD at something in EVE. ... Drop this idea of skills "Speeding up/Slowing down" depending on how old the char is. skills already speed up and slow down. Thats why lvl 5 skills take so much longer than lvl 4's. The OP just wants to apply this to a vaster scale. It would make sense from a game master perspective. You start with a role. Quickly you are good at this role, as in faster than six months when the average subscription is about that. It would improve the pvp imo.
bff Jill	Posted - 2009.02.01 05:48:00 - [74] No, you guys, you guys. Characters are pretty crap before you get your fitting skills trained up, electric and engineering 5, the power management ones to at least 4. Nav skills, 4 again. your weapon system of choice, AND drones, up to t2, things like that. Not to mention if you do the smart thing you are training learning skills to at least 4/4 before you start seriously training. Yes a newbie can go into low sec in a rifter and wtfpwnzor people if it knows what its doing. But thats VERY limiting. It more or less is better to just sit in station and wait a few months, because while you could go out there and do that, its just not really worth the hassle. Or maybe a newbie is fine and they need to let me start my new characters with lots of skillpoints, god knows ive spent at least 6 months doing nothing but waiting for learning skills alone over my various restarts of eve.
Xailia Unsteady Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.01 07:01:00 - [75] This is kind of like eating something a bunch have people have told you not to, but anyway... To be good at a specific job takes ~5-15 million SP. In other games this would be considered 'max level'. If you have 30 million SP, you can be good at 2-6 jobs. You won't do a specific job better than someone with lower SP if they have specialized the SP they have. Anyone new either has to realize this, or have it be explained to them that they can always catch up to veteran players within 6 months for some role. The More You Know áááááááááááááááááááááááááá☼ "The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel."
Oz Borne Naughty 40	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:00:00 - [76] WE HAD TO TRAIN THE HARD WAY SO STFU AND GET ON WITH IT. All this catering for rookie whiners with entitlement issues ****es me off. -------------------
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:05:00 - [77] Why SP does not make you Uber -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:50:00 - [78] Originally by: Ocih Fit a T1 cruiser with T1 fittings and go out and PvP. You get spanked. Go out and fit the T2 Variation with T2 fittings, you will still get spanked. In most cases, it's the wrong ship. T1, T2, it was the wrong ship. Count the number of ships you can fly, compare them to the number that you could fly. That's how usefull you are in EvE. This is wrong, I can fly nearly every sub cap in the game, but that isn't what makes me a good (I like to think ) pilot. Quote: Races make ships for wars that never happen. PvP is 4 races at war with everyone. Amarr doesn't have ships designed to kill Caldari ships. Minmitar will fail when facing Gallente fleets. These are things Vets come to learn and no amount of SP will preove it to a new to EvE player. Clearly you don't quite understand how eve works yourself if you are able to spout such utter nonsense and believe it to be true.
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2009.02.03 17:01:00 - [79] @ OP: Get a minmatar noob alt along the combat path - within 2 weeks that can act as a tackler in gang, or go around soloing easy plexes/missions, and engaging in pvp. Take a 40m sp character, stick them a rifter, and compare them to a 2 month old char that has specced in them, the difference (excluding implants) is minimal. The way to make a low sp new character competitive is to specialize in one aspect of each ship size that they can fly. E.g. specialize in covert ops, then recons, or follow a more combat orientated path with assault then heavy assault then command ships, or perhaps even a tackling orientated role from interceptors to interdictors to heavy interdictors. It is pretty easy as a new character to get a feel for what you enjoy/are good at, and the rest is just icing after you have specced in that field.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Divinity's Edge	Posted - 2009.02.03 17:15:00 - [80] It's not the goal, it's the journey.

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