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Does EVE need more representation of diverse groups, namely gays?

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Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:12:00 - [91] Originally by: Zeba Edited by: Zeba on 31/01/2009 07:54:36 Originally by: Element 22 How did blacks protest? By doing things they weren't expected to be seen doing, like sitting in the front of buses or marching in the streets, something considered threatening and a big no no. What do people expect the GLBT community to do? They expect them to be quiet, dress nicely and be just like everyone else, and for many this is their way of protesting. And if you want to make a more apt comparison you should be comparing militant black superiority group marches to that. I'm not saying that they are militant, but they are a very small percentage. As the saying goes "We're here, we're ***** get used to it". A closer parade would be the 'race pride tour', like the Puerto Rican day parade it's an extreme showing of what the group identifies with, Puerto Rican flags and Red, White & Blue colors for them and outrageous outfits meant to push the boundaries for them. It's a way of saying "We will not be ignored and we are proud of who we are". Sure I agree but then again I don't associate with the great unwashed masses so my opinion is moot. Fact is the average person regardless of country is not going to see anything positive in a bunch of gay men getting estrogen injections to grow boobs and/or painting themselves like some deviant clown. I would imagine that the majority of gay men would agree as all the ones I ever knew wished those type of exotic 'pride' parades would just go away. Er...I'm not sure how to explain this, because I'm pretty sure you know already and it's just being loose with words, but a gay man does not want to be a woman. That's a trans-gender person. A trans-gender person can be gay (i.e. FtM who loves men is a gay man), but estrogen shots are generally for trans-gender, either MtF or 3rd gender or simply anything. Trans-gender != gay. And you're right, I know that a large percentage of the GLBT community does wish they wouldn't be quite so flamboyant, but being flamboyant shouldn't be something you hate.
bff Jill	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:16:00 - [92] I used to be flamboyant to get the girls back in the day, but now they just think i wouldn't be interested in them. sooo hard being an arteest I guess its a good thing i have my internet spaceships now.
eFart	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:16:00 - [93] Originally by: Captain Bringdown Theres already a gay bloodline in eve! Achura anyone ? ahura male gay jinmey female gay gallente male gay almost everybody gay in this game lol so watcha want op????????
Kravick Drasari	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:18:00 - [94] Originally by: Element 22 Er...I'm not sure how to explain this, because I'm pretty sure you know already and it's just being loose with words, but a gay man does not want to be a woman. That's a trans-gender person. A trans-gender person can be gay (i.e. FtM who loves men is a gay man), but estrogen shots are generally for trans-gender, either MtF or 3rd gender or simply anything. Trans-gender != gay. And you're right, I know that a large percentage of the GLBT community does wish they wouldn't be quite so flamboyant, but being flamboyant shouldn't be something you hate. So its ok to shove it in peoples face, but when they say no thanks please leave me alone suddenly its a hate crime? Thats what I don't like.
Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:21:00 - [95] Originally by: Kravick Drasari Originally by: Element 22 Er...I'm not sure how to explain this, because I'm pretty sure you know already and it's just being loose with words, but a gay man does not want to be a woman. That's a trans-gender person. A trans-gender person can be gay (i.e. FtM who loves men is a gay man), but estrogen shots are generally for trans-gender, either MtF or 3rd gender or simply anything. Trans-gender != gay. And you're right, I know that a large percentage of the GLBT community does wish they wouldn't be quite so flamboyant, but being flamboyant shouldn't be something you hate. So its ok to shove it in peoples face, but when they say no thanks please leave me alone suddenly its a hate crime? Thats what I don't like. So walk the f*ck away.
Kravick Drasari	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:22:00 - [96] Originally by: Element 22 Originally by: Kravick Drasari Originally by: Element 22 Er...I'm not sure how to explain this, because I'm pretty sure you know already and it's just being loose with words, but a gay man does not want to be a woman. That's a trans-gender person. A trans-gender person can be gay (i.e. FtM who loves men is a gay man), but estrogen shots are generally for trans-gender, either MtF or 3rd gender or simply anything. Trans-gender != gay. And you're right, I know that a large percentage of the GLBT community does wish they wouldn't be quite so flamboyant, but being flamboyant shouldn't be something you hate. So its ok to shove it in peoples face, but when they say no thanks please leave me alone suddenly its a hate crime? Thats what I don't like. So walk the f*ck away. But I was here first.
Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:27:00 - [97] Edited by: Element 22 on 31/01/2009 08:31:53 Originally by: Kravick Drasari Originally by: Element 22 Originally by: Kravick Drasari Originally by: Element 22 Er...I'm not sure how to explain this, because I'm pretty sure you know already and it's just being loose with words, but a gay man does not want to be a woman. That's a trans-gender person. A trans-gender person can be gay (i.e. FtM who loves men is a gay man), but estrogen shots are generally for trans-gender, either MtF or 3rd gender or simply anything. Trans-gender != gay. And you're right, I know that a large percentage of the GLBT community does wish they wouldn't be quite so flamboyant, but being flamboyant shouldn't be something you hate. So its ok to shove it in peoples face, but when they say no thanks please leave me alone suddenly its a hate crime? Thats what I don't like. So walk the f*ck away. But I was here first. Funny that, so were the Native Americans EDIT: I put it inside his quote by mistake
eFart	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:29:00 - [98] u 2 guys r special gaysauce as well
Kravick Drasari	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:31:00 - [99] Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 31/01/2009 08:31:53 Originally by: Element 22 Funny that, so were the Native Americans But I was here first. They are not relevant to this discussion. Try again. Quote: u 2 guys r special gaysauce as well I love you too.
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:35:00 - [100] Originally by: bff Jill racial pride parades are racist. What's wrong with being racy?
Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:36:00 - [101] Originally by: Kravick Drasari Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 31/01/2009 08:31:53 Originally by: Element 22 Funny that, so were the Native Americans But I was here first. They are not relevant to this discussion. Try again. Actually it is relevant, saying you were there first is not a valid argument legally or ethically. If you say a black man walk into a restaurant could you insist that he leave because 'you were there first'? Quote: u 2 guys r special gaysauce as well I love you too. And let's spit roast 'em You want the mouth or the back? We can use our special ~~black sauce~~ I mean gay sauce. Because that totally isn't offensive. Signatures are annoying...kinda like me.
Kravick Drasari	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:39:00 - [102] Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 31/01/2009 08:40:08 Originally by: Element 22 Actually it is relevant, saying you were there first is not a valid argument legally or ethically. If you say a black man walk into a restaurant could you insist that he leave because 'you were there first'? That is not relevant to this discussion. Try again. Originally by: Element 22 And let's spit roast 'em You want the mouth or the back? We can use our special ~~black sauce~~ I mean gay sauce. Because that totally isn't offensive. I... er, what? --- My cat Putter approves of this post.
Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.31 09:16:00 - [103] Originally by: Kravick Drasari Edited by: Kravick Drasari on 31/01/2009 08:40:08 Originally by: Element 22 Actually it is relevant, saying you were there first is not a valid argument legally or ethically. If you say a black man walk into a restaurant could you insist that he leave because 'you were there first'? That is not relevant to this discussion. Try again. I...I don't know that could any more relevant. We have an argument where you say that if A is there first and doesn't like B's behavior in a free country B shouldn't act like that/look like that because you don't like it/don't want to see it. In the original argument we have A for you and B is flamboyant GLBT. When you say this isn't relevant I hypothesize that you are being blinded by the characters in this case so I substitute a black man because then you might see the ethical issues involved. And you still say it isn't relevant. This leads too 1 of 3 conclusions: 1. You really feel that your feelings supersede all other peoples rights. This is a disturbing feeling. 2. You don't understand the argument, now that I've laid it out in A&B form you should be able to see it. 3. You are simply using the argument that my argument is irrelevant to run around the point. Yes, an argument can be irrelevant, but simply calling it irrelevant doesn't make it true. There is a name for that fallacy, but I don't know what it is
Soporo Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.31 09:30:00 - [104] This crap (no pun intended...) really needs to be in Out Of Pod Experience or somefking elsewhere.
Kravick Drasari	Posted - 2009.01.31 09:37:00 - [105] Originally by: Element 22 I...I don't know that could any more relevant. We have an argument where you say that if A is there first and doesn't like B's behavior in a free country B shouldn't act like that/look like that because you don't like it/don't want to see it. In the original argument we have A for you and B is flamboyant GLBT. When you say this isn't relevant I hypothesize that you are being blinded by the characters in this case so I substitute a black man because then you might see the ethical issues involved. And you still say it isn't relevant. This leads too 1 of 3 conclusions: 1. You really feel that your feelings supersede all other peoples rights. This is a disturbing feeling. 2. You don't understand the argument, now that I've laid it out in A&B form you should be able to see it. 3. You are simply using the argument that my argument is irrelevant to run around the point. Yes, an argument can be irrelevant, but simply calling it irrelevant doesn't make it true. There is a name for that fallacy, but I don't know what it is That is not relevant to this discussion. Try again. I think you need to be reminded what the discussion was about. First, this isn't a discussion about black people. Second, when someone walks up to me dressed like this and starts screaming, "IM GAY IM GAY LOOK AT ME LOOKITMEEEEEEEEEEEE!!" I am going to tell them they are an attention *** and I don't like attention *s. It has nothing to do with them being gay/black/whatever and everything to do with them being loud and obnoxious. Thats all there is to it. Anyone who tries to bring attention to their race/sexual orientation/life style are attention *s. I don't give a damn about race/sexual orientation/life style. It honestly should never have been brought up in the first place because 99% of the time it has no ing place in the current situation/conversation. This is an internet space ship game. What the does homosexuality have ANYTHING to do with it? All those incidents you didn't even provide links to are isolated situations that don't occur every day and there for are not relevant. Why do I have to put up with someone shoving something in my face I don't give two s about just because they want to feel special? Do you want a cookie? Fine, heres a cookie. (#)** You are not going to convince me that someone dressed like this and walking into a room screaming, "IM GAY IM GAY LOOK AT ME LOOKITMEEEEEEEEEEEE!!" is normal. For the record, I have 2 gay friends. They are a couple. Both of them have stated they think the whole gay pride parade thing is a joke and they both wish it would go away as it spins a negative stereotype about homosexuals. If you where to look at both of them you never would have guessed they where gay unless they told you. They don't tell people they're gay because they both know it has no relevance in 99% of all conversations/situations. If you ask them if they're gay they will simply say, "Yeah." and that will be that.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.31 09:46:00 - [106] It's a homosexual, a fabulous fighter used in carriers My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Khanamar	Posted - 2009.01.31 09:47:00 - [107] 1. a certain group is shunned 2. moral views start to shift 3. group is accepted 4. group is made fun off on sitcoms 5. fully accepted once the laughs wear off Can we please move straight to step 5, pls ;) To the OP.. Stop thinking in terms of groups/races. Theres no need, cause its **** all important.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.31 09:53:00 - [108] Originally by: Khanamar To the OP.. Stop thinking in terms of groups/races. Theres no need, cause its **** all important. Tell that to the millions, no...BILLIONS of people dying every day in fleet warfare My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Xailia Unsteady Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.31 09:53:00 - [109] That might work until you realize I'm a gay fedo furry. Wait... what? "The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel."
Lumy Minmatar eXceed Inc. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.01.31 10:18:00 - [110] Edited by: Lumy on 31/01/2009 10:20:28 I killed a gay pirate. Does that make me homophobic? Loot was good, though I would prefer Estamel.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.31 10:30:00 - [111] The Gallente Federation has long moved passed this gay/straight divide. You can love who you want, have sex with whomever wants to have sex with you. And you don't have to be a drama queen about it either. Cause lets face it, whether your partners are the same sex, different sex or even was once the same sex does not matter in the slightest. As long as he or she consents then you can put your willy into any orifice you like. Now, can somebody tell me how a gay character would be different from a straight one. Do they get a bonus on charisma? And does a butch dyke get the same boni as a lipstick lesbian?
Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.31 10:35:00 - [112] Originally by: Kravick Drasari That is not relevant to this discussion. Try again. I think you need to be reminded what the discussion was about. First, this isn't a discussion about black people. Second, when someone walks up to me dressed like this and starts screaming, "IM GAY IM GAY LOOK AT ME LOOKITMEEEEEEEEEEEE!!" I am going to tell them they are an attention *** and I don't like attention *s. It has nothing to do with them being gay/black/whatever and everything to do with them being loud and obnoxious. Thats all there is to it. Anyone who tries to bring attention to their race/sexual orientation/life style are attention *s. I don't give a damn about race/sexual orientation/life style. It honestly should never have been brought up in the first place because 99% of the time it has no ing place in the current situation/conversation. This is an internet space ship game. What the does homosexuality have ANYTHING to do with it? All those incidents you didn't even provide links to are isolated situations that don't occur every day and there for are not relevant. Why do I have to put up with someone shoving something in my face I don't give two s about just because they want to feel special? Do you want a cookie? Fine, heres a cookie. (#) You are not going to convince me that someone dressed like this and walking into a room screaming, "IM GAY IM GAY LOOK AT ME LOOKITMEEEEEEEEEEEE!!" is normal. For the record, I have 2 gay friends. They are a couple. For the longest time I had no idea they where gay. One day I overheard them mention the gay pride parade and if they'd ever attend one. I asked why they would attend it and they told me they where gay. It had never occurred to me. I said, "Oh, ok." and never mentioned it again because I don't give two flying s that they're gay. They're both still my friends and I don't think of them any differently. Both of them have stated they think the whole gay pride parade thing is a joke and they both wish it would go away as it spins a negative stereotype about homosexuals. If you where to look at both of them you never would have guessed they where gay unless they told you. They don't tell people they're gay because they both know it has no relevance in 99% of all conversations/situations. If you ask them if they're gay they will simply say, "Yeah." and that will be that. I think we've gotten our wires crossed I agree that the OP's idea is stupid and quite frankly if put in place would be insulting. And yes, an attention * is an attention is an attention *. But it's their right to dress and act however they damn well please so long as their actions do not endanger others or break certain laws regarding public nudity and it's your right to walk away and feel disgusted or what every you feel but not to deny their rights to act and dress the way they do and walk where they wish because you don't like it. My last few posts were regarding your statement where you said, and I quote Quote: But I was here first. to my suggestion to Quote:** walk the f*ck away if you didn't like their behavior. And my examples put other groups that have been persecuted because people seem to often have a blind spot regarding the GLBT community. People often think that things that wouldn't fly with other groups are ok with GLBTs. Signatures are annoying...kinda like me.
Jaunis Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.31 10:37:00 - [113] You can't compare gay discrimination to racial discrimination its like comparing apples and oranges. Where a person has a choice to wear their choice of sexual orientation on their sleeve you can't hide what race you are. (their are a few exceptions and then their is Michael Jackson) When it comes to transgender discrimination i don't believe that because you now have different "parts" you should be considered anything other than what your chromosomes say your are if your XY then your XY for life regardless as to what medical procedure you go through. Lastly all of it really doesn't matter regardless of how PC the world tries to be people will still discriminate regardless.
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.31 10:46:00 - [114] Originally by: Michella Obamama So here is the next question in the quest to diversity: people of different sexual orientations in the world of EVE. Haha. No really, this is a joke right? What possible value would this add to Eve? How does this add to the game mechanics? It doesn't, it's completely irrelevant. I don't care or really want to know about the sexual orientation of my colleagues or friends and I don't see why it would make a difference if I knew it about the people I play Eve with. Some people are gay, some people are straight, that's life. I don't know if someone is gay unless they tell me which erm, is pretty much how it works in Eve too...? It already works just how it does in real life :)
Silver Night Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.01.31 11:04:00 - [115] One of the Guristas Officers is gay, actually. Other than that, the question of orientation doesn't come up a lot, no doubt there is a normal proportion of any given orientation in Eve, adjusting for some cultural variation. Actually, the top Sansha officer is autistic too, so those with severe mental disorders are represented as well. Very progressive.
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.31 11:12:00 - [116] Originally by: Silver Night Actually, the top Sansha officer is autistic too, so those with severe mental disorders are represented as well. I thought being Gallente covered that? :D
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.01.31 11:12:00 - [117] Originally by: Vaal Erit How about we keep hot-button issues out of a video game so I can relax and have a few minutes of fun without politics/religion/sex issues everywhere. Video game. Not serious business. FFS. /thread Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.01.31 11:14:00 - [118] Is it still considered gay if your same-sex interlude was with an animal?
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.01.31 11:52:00 - [119] Originally by: Michella Obamama First of all, a big congratulations to the people of Iceland and CCP for their new Gay Prime Minister. First in the world. YAY! While only one of the 12 "races" in EVE is Black, it nonetheless afford representation to the fine people of Africa and African descent everywhere. The addition of Asians in the game should also be applaud. So here is the next question in the quest to diversity: people of different sexual orientations in the world of EVE. No.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.01.31 12:04:00 - [120] I cannot help but feel sexual orientation is utterly irrelevant in either of these contexts. Indeed, I'd go as far as saying that it _only_ becomes relevant if you're thinking of propositioning the person in question. -- 249km locking?

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