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ECCM should make you totally imune to ECM

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Torco Breed of Malakka	Posted - 2009.02.03 13:37:00 - [1] When I saw a gang of 16 pilots with 9(!) Falcons lately and i was expiriencing that every fight we had in the last months including Falcons, I was thinking about this overpowered ship and what kind of changes CCP could do to make PvP more fun. I was thinking about making the ECCM module much more effektive but high cap consuming. I mean you sacrificing one med slot for this, combined with really high cap costs should make ECM and ECCM a nice mini-tactical game in combat. What do you think about this idea? discuss :-)
rubico1337 Caldari nefarious badgers inc	Posted - 2009.02.03 13:40:00 - [2] yes and please let tracking mods make you immune to tracking disruptors Originally by: Blind Man okies so liek when u warp in on them u shod target them... and stuff k.then u FIRE ZE MISSILES and use your heavy nos cause it drain their cap then u click the jhammer and dampenener
Von Sadist	Posted - 2009.02.03 13:41:00 - [3] was going to say the same thing ;\
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.02.03 13:43:00 - [4] NO or yes if an invul field realy does what the name says ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Rordan D'Kherr	Posted - 2009.02.03 14:27:00 - [5] Hey, we do not have enough whining threads like this one! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=984997 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=982668 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=981987 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=983585 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=982340 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=981089 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=979032 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=898635 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=977182 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=975473 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=975365 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=974299 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=971507 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=974196 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=968281 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=973961 www.eve-search.com ftw.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2009.02.03 14:35:00 - [6] Originally by: Rordan D'Kherr Hey, we do not have enough whining threads like this one! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=984997 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=982668 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=981987 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=983585 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=982340 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=981089 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=979032 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=898635 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=977182 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=975473 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=975365 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=974299 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=971507 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=974196 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=968281 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=973961 www.eve-search.com ftw. Fail, should be 42 threads. Moar whining pls All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.03 14:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Rordan D'Kherr Hey, we do not have enough whining threads like this one! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=984997 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=982668 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=981987 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=983585 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=982340 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=981089 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=979032 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=898635 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=977182 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=975473 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=975365 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=974299 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=971507 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=974196 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=968281 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=973961 www.eve-search.com ftw. Sheesh....the time it took you to link all those threads, you could have made your own!
Torco Breed of Malakka	Posted - 2009.02.03 14:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Rordan D'Kherr Hey, we do not have enough whining threads like this one! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=984997 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=982668 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=981987 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=983585 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=982340 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=981089 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=979032 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=898635 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=977182 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=975473 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=975365 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=974299 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=971507 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=974196 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=968281 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=973961 www.eve-search.com ftw. hey you genious, then you might notice how urgent this topic is...... frown
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.02.03 15:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Torco i got jammed waaaaa... Does a sensor booster make you immune to damps?. Does a tracking comp make you immune to TD's. Do hardeners make you immune to dmg types?.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2009.02.03 15:49:00 - [10] Edited by: baltec1 on 03/02/2009 15:49:51 I want my armour tank to make me imune to damage, I have to use most of my lows
Poast Warrior Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:05:00 - [11] They need a serious boost, but not that much
Visceroth Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:07:00 - [12] How about we make ECCM counter-jam. If a ship that tries to jam you and it fails, you jam that ship instead. That would be funny if when the falcon misses a cycle it gets jammed instead.
Guer	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Visceroth How about we make ECCM counter-jam. If a ship that tries to jam you and it fails, you jam that ship instead. That would be funny if when the falcon misses a cycle it gets jammed instead. funny, but stupid.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:13:00 - [14] Edited by: lecrotta on 03/02/2009 16:13:21 Originally by: Visceroth How about we make ECCM counter-jam. If a ship that tries to jam you and it fails, you jam that ship instead. That would be funny if when the falcon misses a cycle it gets jammed instead. How about you just fit a eccm on task specific ships jusy like you fit other mods on other task specific ships in your gang and kill or drive off the falcons/ecm ships...
Visceroth Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Guer Originally by: Visceroth How about we make ECCM counter-jam. If a ship that tries to jam you and it fails, you jam that ship instead. That would be funny if when the falcon misses a cycle it gets jammed instead. funny, but stupid. Why is it stupid? The way I see it now ECM doesn't have too much vulnerability. So you miss a cycle, you are going to be at least 100KM away. On your home turf you could be 200+KM away. I think all ECM should be changed this way tbh. If you miss a cycle you instead get jammed. Call it Sensor feedback that ships emit. Hell call it a drawback for all the positives you get.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Visceroth Why is it stupid? So if i miss a shot with my long rangr guns/missiles i should take dmg?.
Visceroth Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:21:00 - [17] Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 03/02/2009 16:13:21 Originally by: Visceroth How about we make ECCM counter-jam. If a ship that tries to jam you and it fails, you jam that ship instead. That would be funny if when the falcon misses a cycle it gets jammed instead. How about you just fit a eccm on task specific ships jusy like you fit other mods on other task specific ships in your gang and kill or drive off the falcons/ecm ships... I do fit ECCM to my ships. But you also state that you would like ECCM to have a secondary bonus. Well why not this? btw I don't fit other mods to fight off other systems. I don't fit a sensor booster because an arazu is going to be in gang. I fit one to target faster. I don't fit a MWD in case I get bubbled. I use it to close distance quickly. I don't fit Cap Boosters to fight Neuts. I fit them to sustain my tank longer. All the ewar mods I fit on my ship are part of a more grand plan for the ship, Not to counter the different ships I meet. ECM systems are the exception to that. And this is not a rant or a rave. This is not to start up a "nerf falcon" thread. This is a discussion on how ECCM could be different and the positives and negatives of those differences.
Visceroth Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Visceroth Why is it stupid? So if i miss a shot with my long rangr guns/missiles i should take dmg?. So you are comparing different systems? It's stupid to compare two different systems and how they should work. And my point was the drawback to missing a shot, you lose ammo, and you don't do dmg that cycle.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Visceroth Originally by: Murina Originally by: Visceroth Why is it stupid? So if i miss a shot with my long rangr guns/missiles i should take dmg?. So you are comparing different systems? It's stupid to compare two different systems and how they should work. And my point was the drawback to missing a shot, you lose ammo, and you don't do dmg that cycle. And the drawback of missing a jam is you do not jam that cycle and the rof is 20 secs btw not 3 or 4 like on some gunships. Ans do not talk about stupid comparisons in the same breath you mention your all time stupid idea.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Visceroth Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 03/02/2009 16:13:21 Originally by: Visceroth How about we make ECCM counter-jam. If a ship that tries to jam you and it fails, you jam that ship instead. That would be funny if when the falcon misses a cycle it gets jammed instead. How about you just fit a eccm on task specific ships jusy like you fit other mods on other task specific ships in your gang and kill or drive off the falcons/ecm ships... I do fit ECCM to my ships. But you also state that you would like ECCM to have a secondary bonus. Well why not this? As soon as sensor boosters damp a ship that fails to damp it.....oh wait damps work 100% guaranteed....
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:33:00 - [21] ECCM WORKS! YES ITS TRUE! the problem with it is: it only works on ships with an already 'strong' sensor strength like battleships and caps. Not that im saying a HAC with one eccm should be as hard to jam as a capital with an eccm, but when falcons only seem to come in "ECM skill maxor mode" (and partly due to the nature of ecm game mechanics) anything under a 40 sensor strength will still be jammed ALOT, and EVEN MOAR ALOT if they are a high value target.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Visceroth btw I don't fit other mods to fight off other systems. I don't fit a sensor booster because an arazu is going to be in gang. I fit one to target faster. I don't fit a MWD in case I get bubbled. I use it to close distance quickly. I don't fit Cap Boosters to fight Neuts. I fit them to sustain my tank longer. All the ewar mods I fit on my ship are part of a more grand plan for the ship, Not to counter the different ships I meet. Exactly and the fact is that the benefits you get from those modules you fit are negated by the opposing ewar systems, so in fact if you wanted to benefit from your module and protect yourself from the other systems in eve you would need to fit 2 SB's to defend against 1 damp or 2 tc's to defend against 1 td.
Visceroth Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Visceroth Originally by: Murina Originally by: Visceroth Why is it stupid? So if i miss a shot with my long rangr guns/missiles i should take dmg?. So you are comparing different systems? It's stupid to compare two different systems and how they should work. And my point was the drawback to missing a shot, you lose ammo, and you don't do dmg that cycle. And the drawback of missing a jam is you do not jam that cycle and the rof is 20 secs btw not 3 or 4 like on some gunships. Ans do not talk about stupid comparisons in the same breath you mention your all time stupid idea. lol ok I bow down to your infinite wisdom. Drawback for a long range gun: no damage loses ammo slow RoF Drawback for ECM: misses jam cycle 20s RoF(although 20 seconds they still have to relock you which takes a few seconds off that)
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:37:00 - [24] Hey i think that an invulnerability field should make me immune to damage.
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Dr Fighter anything under a 40 sensor strength will still be jammed ALOT, and EVEN MOAR ALOT if they are a high value target. Wrong. Check this Thread bud it gives the formula (and results vs a single fitted eccm) for multiple jamming while using staggered jams against ships with a 50/50 chance (thats 28str against racials with top skills btw not 40)
Visceroth Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:41:00 - [26] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Visceroth btw I don't fit other mods to fight off other systems. I don't fit a sensor booster because an arazu is going to be in gang. I fit one to target faster. I don't fit a MWD in case I get bubbled. I use it to close distance quickly. I don't fit Cap Boosters to fight Neuts. I fit them to sustain my tank longer. All the ewar mods I fit on my ship are part of a more grand plan for the ship, Not to counter the different ships I meet. Exactly and the fact is that the benefits you get from those modules you fit are negated by the opposing ewar systems, so in fact if you wanted to benefit from your module and protect yourself from the other systems in eve you would need to fit 2 SB's to defend against 1 damp or 2 tc's to defend against 1 td. ugh I give up. Obviously you guys just want to stick to the same tired arguments without even listening to the other side. I clearly state here I do NOT fit ewar mods to defend against other systems yet you just read what you want to. I clearly state that I fit ewar mods to make my mods all work for a singular purpose, Such as getting in close and doing damage. Whatever, as I said before in past posts, ECM or falcons will get nerfed. There's not a whole lot you can do about it just wait for it to happen.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:42:00 - [27] Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Dr Fighter anything under a 40 sensor strength will still be jammed ALOT, and EVEN MOAR ALOT if they are a high value target. Wrong. Check this Thread bud it gives the formula (and results vs a single fitted eccm) for multiple jamming while using staggered jams against ships with a 50/50 chance (thats 28str against racials with top skills btw not 40) i do not care to see your thread, i fight alot in many ships on vent/ts against all kinds. I take note when im jammed and also ask who else is jammed, just to see how 'dangerous' a specific falcon pilot is. Somtimes they only jam specific shiptyps, simply because they are easyer to permajam, somtimes its the dmg dealers. So im basing what i say on what i have experienced with my own eye balls, and i DO FLY ECCM FITTED SHIPS, onbviously i tend not to bother attaching eccm to anything sub BS anymore, because it doesnt work unless you guive up a sick amount of mids.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:46:00 - [28] Originally by: Visceroth Originally by: Murina Originally by: Visceroth btw I don't fit other mods to fight off other systems. I don't fit a sensor booster because an arazu is going to be in gang. I fit one to target faster. I don't fit a MWD in case I get bubbled. I use it to close distance quickly. I don't fit Cap Boosters to fight Neuts. I fit them to sustain my tank longer. All the ewar mods I fit on my ship are part of a more grand plan for the ship, Not to counter the different ships I meet. Exactly and the fact is that the benefits you get from those modules you fit are negated by the opposing ewar systems, so in fact if you wanted to benefit from your module and protect yourself from the other systems in eve you would need to fit 2 SB's to defend against 1 damp or 2 tc's to defend against 1 td. ugh I give up. Obviously you guys just want to stick to the same tired arguments without even listening to the other side. Have you even considered that its you who have the same tired arguments and the answers to them are just a obvious a constant to ppl with a willingness to swap a module or two around?. Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Solo is all about skill not ship fits..... Originally by: Amira Shadowsong ...The anti inty fit is absolutely crap against cruisers and AFs.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:49:00 - [29] Edited by: Murina on 03/02/2009 16:53:47 Originally by: Dr Fighter obviously i tend not to bother attaching eccm to anything sub BS anymore, because it doesnt work unless you give up a sick amount of mids. Then your a fool cos, BC, hacs, CS and recons all have high sig str in fact recons have higher than BS and have plenty of mids. Oh and this maybe my cyno alt but i see you are posting with a alt as well so how about you tell us your main or give us a kb link so we can see all the multitude loss mails with eccm fitted ships, killed by falcon heavy gangs.
Visceroth Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Visceroth Originally by: Murina Originally by: Visceroth btw I don't fit other mods to fight off other systems. I don't fit a sensor booster because an arazu is going to be in gang. I fit one to target faster. I don't fit a MWD in case I get bubbled. I use it to close distance quickly. I don't fit Cap Boosters to fight Neuts. I fit them to sustain my tank longer. All the ewar mods I fit on my ship are part of a more grand plan for the ship, Not to counter the different ships I meet. Exactly and the fact is that the benefits you get from those modules you fit are negated by the opposing ewar systems, so in fact if you wanted to benefit from your module and protect yourself from the other systems in eve you would need to fit 2 SB's to defend against 1 damp or 2 tc's to defend against 1 td. ugh I give up. Obviously you guys just want to stick to the same tired arguments without even listening to the other side. Have you even considered that its you who have the same tired arguments and the answers to them are just a obvious a constant to ppl with a willingness to swap a module or two around?. Yes, but I also see that you think I am one of those people even though I have already admitted as such that I do swap out modules to compensate for Falcons. I was merely suggesting ideas to possibly make ECCM more attractive yet only see that all pro-ecm arguments are is to compare it to different systems. While I agree a drawback to ECM is that it does have a chance to miss a cycle, missing a cycle is not that detrimental to a good falcon pilot. The range it gets to jam and stay clear of fire over rides that drawback. If you want to make the same comparison, let me shoot my long range guns to 200+km.

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