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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.02.13 03:14:00 - [181] Edited by: Dr Resheph on 13/02/2009 03:15:07 I guess, but that's a choice you at least have where either direction takes you down the same road. Both are specific to your skillset, both result in new ships and toys to play with under the same race. The difference is for vets (if I were Amarr)... Training for a Damnation/Redeemer/Paladin or a Legion -or- Training for Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar or a Legion edit: Let's assume I actually like flying my race the most, or have other characters specialized in the other races.
Shadow's Caress Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.02.13 03:21:00 - [182] Who thought that loosing skillpoints to an inevitable occurance was a good idea? The simple fact is that when you buy a ship, it is likely to eventually get blown up. If I have to loose sp every time I loose a t3 ship, I'm simply not going to fly t3. The only way I can be convinced to accept that mechanic is if the T3 ship somehow gives me extra skillpoints to replace the ones that were lost due to an eventuality. Please, balance risk and reward. loosing skillpoints is an EXTREMELY HIGH risk, and the reward here seems very minimal at best.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.13 03:46:00 - [183] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf <stuff> TBH, skillpoint loss won't even put a dent in their use. It's a shock right now. We're not used to the idea. But that will change. Further more, people like myself who's main interest in the game is pushing the performance envelope of their ships won't bat an eye at bringing every skill to 5, regardless of the risk. These are the same people that fly multibillion ISK ships in PVP. Just because it's the best. This is what Eve needs. Advanced content. Something for people to work towards. If you look at the skill requirements for T3, you'll see that it isn't that much really. Not any longer than it would take to skill up T2 large guns for a BS, to be sure. You could be flying a max skilled T3 ship for the time cost it would take to fly a max skilled T2 fit BS. Pretty reasonable barrier to entry IMO. Very light skill requirements. Cost? Supply and demand. Right now T2 is SUPER cheap. It's INSANE. Why? Because there is ISK to be made, no matter how small, and people are producing whatever the market can handle. T3 will be the exact same. At first it'll be expensive, but in time the prices will drop. Maybe not to the levels of T2, but they'll be reasonable, given the time cost required to gather the materials. Rigs are a good example of this mechanic. At first rigs were 150m+ per rig for T1 stuff, now they're down to 15-20m each for most of the popular ones. T3 required to compete? No way. T3 won't provide more peak performance IMO. You won't see more DPS than a BS, or more tank than a T2 command ship, or faster top speeds than an interceptor, or better EW performance than a Recon. What I think you will see is the ability to do many of the above, with obvious limits and restrictions, from a basic platform that lends unpredictability to combat that hasn't been in Eve for a long time. I'm already able to fly all four T3 ships on SISI, with all subsystem skills at 3 and climbing. I LOVE THE SKILL QUEUE!!! (when it works, lol) Nuances like ejecting or self destructing to save your SP will add more depth to PVP as well. It's more choices to be made, more levels of skill to be added to combat. More ways to set apart the really good players from everyone else. I can't wait. GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!! this has been almost exactly my line of thinking. I was hoping no one would post anything sensible on the fourms and I would have cheap t3 ships.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2009.02.13 03:52:00 - [184] This devblog is pure ♥ Particularily the saving of ship fittings!! So I love you guys!!! I really do! A question though. If I have level 1 in all subsystem skills and then dies. Will I then loose no xp, or do I have to get the skill again or..? Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Gal'drea	Posted - 2009.02.13 04:14:00 - [185] Originally by: Bellum Eternus This is what Eve needs. Advanced content. Something for people to work towards. ...Again. And Again. And Again. Nuances like ejecting or self destructing to save your SP will add more depth to PVP as well. [...] More ways to set apart the really good/laggy players from everyone else. I can wait. Fixed a few things for you [in bold].
DrDooma	Posted - 2009.02.13 04:20:00 - [186] Someone else has already raised this issue but I have not seen a response to this so far: You paused learning ôMinmatar Engineering Subsystemö skill lvl5, lets say its worth 2 million skill points and that is 90% competed when your T3 ship explodes. If you randomly happen to loose ôMinmatar Engineering Subsystemö skill lvl4 (that may only be worth 750k of learning points) what actually happens? Does the system simply subtracts the skills you lost 750K from æcreditÆ1,800K leaving you with 1,050 æcreditÆ points to loose the next time around? Lets change the scenario: You have just started learning Minmatar Engineering Subsystem lvl5 skill and got exploded on the Internet in you T3 ship. You donÆt have enough skill points to completely cover lvl4 skill (like you did in previous scenario). Do you stop learning altogether or do you simply start learning lvl4 skill instead of lvl5? This is a very big issue as you may have died due to some event that prevents you getting back into EVE and setting your learning skills.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.13 04:20:00 - [187] Originally by: Dr Resheph I've been pvping 6 years and I'm definitely not happy with an explosion of "more of the same". You're making combat less tactical because it's no longer about fitting to your enemy's weaknesses. Instead, it comes down to min/maxing efforts and sheer numbers. wait... I thought half of pvp was fitting to be able to engage many different threats. as well you don't know what your enemy is going to bring. that and it is rather hard to do anything that makes sheer number ineffective. although as for your ideas at the end I love em!
Finnroth Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.02.13 04:33:00 - [188] I believe to have read something on the forums regarding a change of light and colour for Tech3 ships. Some dev seems to have said something about that on EVE TV, though i didn't watch it myself and people on this forums tend to talk trash for fun all day. So a simple question - are/were there plans to do this? It would certainly be amazing.
OzDeaDMeaT Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.02.13 04:43:00 - [189] Looks good so far. The Question i have is. Are Cruiser class ships going to be the only tech 3 class ships in Eve? That is all... My Super Mega Uber Fleet Battle participation Lag reduction idea
Daan Sai Polytrope	Posted - 2009.02.13 04:44:00 - [190] These are tactical cruisers, not strategic Strategy applies to how you plan an entire champaign. Tactics are how you adapt to the local situation. These ships can adapt to different tasks, so they are tactical. Often confused, like precision and accuracy.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.13 05:04:00 - [191] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!! this has been almost exactly my line of thinking. I was hoping no one would post anything sensible on the fourms and I would have cheap t3 ships. Hehehe... Frankly I think it's a bit silly for all the rabbling so far. T3 isn't even usable on SISI yet. We don't know how far we can push it, what it can do, anything. Everyone knows I have no problem what so ever about voicing my opinion about something (lol?), but seriously, wtf ppl? It's not even testable yet. By the way, I'm going to try and run for CSM next time around as well if I can get my passport sorted... Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.13 05:14:00 - [192] Originally by: Gal'drea Originally by: Bellum Eternus This is what Eve needs. Advanced content. Something for people to work towards. ...Again. And Again. And Again. Nuances like ejecting or self destructing to save your SP will add more depth to PVP as well. [...] More ways to set apart the really good/laggy players from everyone else. I can wait. Fixed a few things for you [in bold]. That's only a problem if you're a failure as a human being and keep losing ships. Just an example: I have a k/d ratio of around 60:1. I'm just not that worried about losing 4-5 days of training if I get nicked, mostly because I feel that I'll be able to eject or SD in time to save my SP, assuming someone is able to kill me at all. But I guess the skillpoint outlook is a little different for all of the cattle in Eve who end up getting owned in the face every day. For some reason, it just doesn't worry me that much. [/sarcasm] Two years ago an Ishtar or an Arazu was a hyper exotic rarity that was both feared and envied. Now they're nothing. Do you really want T3 to start out being what T2 has become? I'd rather keep that feeling of flying a Ferarri for a while, thanks. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.02.13 05:18:00 - [193] t3 ship jumps into gatecamp... pilot screams 'FF*****&&&&@@@@@' ejects and tries to make a run for it in his pod. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.13 05:43:00 - [194] T3 will separate the carebear pew pew'ers from the hardcore pew pew'ers. That is all.
Gal'drea	Posted - 2009.02.13 05:56:00 - [195] Originally by: Bellum Eternus That's only a problem if you're a failure as a human being and keep losing ships. Just an example: I have a k/d ratio of around 60:1. I'm just not that worried about losing 4-5 days of training if I get nicked, mostly because I feel that I'll be able to eject or SD in time to save my SP, assuming someone is able to kill me at all. But I guess the skillpoint outlook is a little different for all of the cattle in Eve who end up getting owned in the face every day. For some reason, it just doesn't worry me that much. [/sarcasm] Two years ago an Ishtar or an Arazu was a hyper exotic rarity that was both feared and envied. Now they're nothing. Do you really want T3 to start out being what T2 has become? I'd rather keep that feeling of flying a Ferarri for a while, thanks. [sarcasm] Do you expect no one will check such a claim? I fail to see a 60:1 k/d ratio. Also, your ego is not on trial here. [/sarcasm] Assuming I'm only supposed to really respond to anything after the handy /sarcasm tag... These will not be seeded on market from day one, and most likely will prove very hard to get and expensive. The point I think most people are trying to make, is there is a lot of opposition to losing SP for *ANY* reason. Taking a loss in a T3 ship is as good as losing sp from any "random" skill, as that's time you could have spent on another useful skill. How many eve players were sitting around a month ago thinking... "I don't want to train anything else in Eve, they should give me a nice fat SP-sink so that I'll have something to do with all this time"?
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:02:00 - [196] Apparently there are a lot of obsessive/compulsive bean counters in this game that suck at combat. If you put the total number of skill points that your character has above the enjoyment you get from actually playing the game, you have your head screwed on upside down. As a side note, it has always been difficult for players to earn significant amounts of Isk purely from PVP activities. This system (apparently) provides excellent incentive for targets in T3 vessels to abandon ship or negotiate an escape. Pure win for those with an aggressive mindset. ===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
Pliauga Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:05:00 - [197] Originally by: Cailais some nice info - but I think most of us knew 99.99% of this already. With only a short period to go we're still no closer to knowing any of the subsystem attributes, or have even seen the Amarr designs (and with only a couple of concept art pieces for Gallente and Min designs). New dev blog required with MOAR details please C. This ------- "Skynet" is my internet provider, should I be worried?
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:12:00 - [198] Originally by: Gal'drea [sarcasm] Do you expect no one will check such a claim? I fail to see a 60:1 k/d ratio. Also, your ego is not on trial here. [/sarcasm] Assuming I'm only supposed to really respond to anything after the handy /sarcasm tag... These will not be seeded on market from day one, and most likely will prove very hard to get and expensive. The point I think most people are trying to make, is there is a lot of opposition to losing SP for *ANY* reason. Taking a loss in a T3 ship is as good as losing sp from any "random" skill, as that's time you could have spent on another useful skill. How many eve players were sitting around a month ago thinking... "I don't want to train anything else in Eve, they should give me a nice fat SP-sink so that I'll have something to do with all this time"? Looks like a 60:1 k/d ratio to me... You're right, you do fail. The only one's worried about this loss of SP are the people who are worried about loss in general. If you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it. If you're so worried about losing SP (or losing at all) then don't play. People such as yourself are too focused on LOSING. I'm focused on winning. You're assuming you're going to lose without even trying. I assume I'm going to win before I even undock. But then again, if I had a 1:1 k/d ratio, I'd probably be worried too. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Cadde Gallente Gene Works AKA-AHN KINGDOM	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:50:00 - [199] Edited by: Cadde on 13/02/2009 06:53:20 I repeat, you have a choice! If you wanna go into blob warfare with your T3 and have the risk of being called primary with like half a second to respond before you go BOOM then that is your choice. IT ISN'T BLACK OR WHITE, YOU HAVE A GREY AREA! - You will find it between the ears. T3 will NOT be... good for large fleet fights. twice as good as T2. used in every situation. the end of your current skills, only T3 related subsystem skills. affordable for the average player. (And don't buy isk, not even from GTC's to get one) the one ship to rule them all. T3 will be... Whatever you can make of it! -Will i lose a skill every time i lose a T3 ship? Not necessarily, you can always eject in the last second. -But i lose 5 T3 ships a week? Then maybe you would be better off in another ship class...? -I just lost 5 T3 ships in a row trying to defend my alliance space from a blob and i had no time to eject and now all my lvl 5 skills are down to lvl 4 That is very unfortunate, however if you can get alpha popped then you clearly shouldn't fly a T3. In all other cases you should have way enough time to eject to save your skill, the ship is dead anyways if you stay in it. I too was thinking about letting one train the T3 skills in tandem with normal skills, but now i understand how brilliant CCPs idea is. It is a very dynamic ship for very dynamic situations and the possible combinations makes it nearly impossible to "just hop into a ship that can counter it". There are limitations involved such as certain subsystems doesn't match with certain others, preventing a "super ship" and the risk of losing training means people are not going to go and suicide with it. Not in highsec, lowsec or 0.0! The tactics involved in fielding such a ship will be awesome and pirates will have a field day! "YARR? Eject from your ship or lose your SP!" What better way is there to hijack a ship? --------------- Opinions? Yes they belong to me, not my corp!
Halycon Gamma Caldari The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:53:00 - [200] Let me tell you a bit about myself. I fly frigates, a year and a half old character who doesn't take anything larger than a frigate into battle. I don't do that because I can't afford to lose anything larger, I do it because I enjoy them. In a well fit frigate I can fight some battleships to an absolute standstill. So, I've got the grand idea of flying every single frigate in the game at perfect skill; some people might call that a stupid goal, but its my goal. To do that is going to, in total, take more than 3 years of subscription to eve. Name me one other MMO that has goals that take 3 years to accomplish. So yes, i see the entire idea of skill point loss as a slap in the face. CCP's game mechanics, as they currently stand, already requires more time spent than any other two MMO's on the market. And now they want to make that time spent longer? Not spiffy. If you dev's want to add a major balance idea like that, give us a major new piece of gameplay to balance it against. WiS, Planetary Flight, Ground Based Combat. All of those are ground breaking pieces of gameplay that you guys have mentioned over the years as in development. And for truly brand new gameplay elements, sure, I'll except the idea an SP sink. I'm getting something unbelievably cool for my new risk. But a new ship? A ship which doesn't even add in a new way to play the game? You guys are on something. Tech3 is just a flashier version of tech1 and tech2. There is nothing new here from a gameplay standpoint once you leave dock. No new mechanic or bonus that makes that sort of negative worth while. Scrap this, in a hurry, because as it sits, this is the single silliest new addition to the game I can think of in my time playing. Or re-work it to where you're able to train these 5 skills and training other skills at once, but only while in a Tech3 ship. Something.
Deric Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.13 07:25:00 - [201] Risk is an important factor in this game, but so is risk management and recovery and a sense of involvement in that process. Very few things in EVE can be lost that can't be regained, players can control what they risk by flying cheaper setups or engaging in less risky behavior, they can manage recovery by stockpiling ISK and equipment, and their behavior is a significant factor in how fast they can do this. Many players, including myself, just don't see SP loss the same way. For many, SP is a positional good, valuable in itself to be sure, but also in terms of how much more of it you have than someone else, see all the talk of "catching up to veterans," for example. From this perspective loss of SP is a loss of standing relative to everyone else in the game and is basically unrecoverable. Relative SP cannot be stockpiled to prepare for loss, and players have relatively little effect on how fast they gain SP. Of course, particularly if a character is already specialized and/or has a lot of them, more SP doesn't always mean better performance at any particular task and those who say that tactical skills might offer the best return on investment even if they can be lost might be right. What is new and causing such a reaction, and what I oppose, is being asked to risk something I can never get back.
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.02.13 07:34:00 - [202] Edited by: Dr Resheph on 13/02/2009 07:34:02 Jesus Christ, some you guys are monumentally stupid for even trying to play the carebear/pvper/egotrip card in this thread. Facts: I have more money, kills, experience, and ballsy recklessness than all of you combined. I have disposable characters I don't care about. I'm doing the type of small scale PVP where Tech 3 would excel. I am exactly the type of person you'd think of when it comes to 'Tech 3 user' demographic. So before you dudes bust a nut trying to come up with more clever 'lol carebear' one-liners, maybe you can explain why then, I would find the entire concept behind tech 3 so flaccid. HINT: 'Real' pvpers don't play with toys when having fun.
Lord Lojak	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:06:00 - [203] ok silly question but i havent seen anything related to this so here goes. will this be ONLY a cruiser class ship or the other classes of ships to follow in the future. still awesome either way
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:06:00 - [204] Originally by: Dr Resheph Edited by: Dr Resheph on 13/02/2009 07:34:02 Jesus Christ, some you guys are monumentally stupid for even trying to play the carebear/pvper/egotrip card in this thread. Facts: I have more money, kills, experience, and ballsy recklessness than all of you combined. I have disposable characters I don't care about. I'm doing the type of small scale PVP where Tech 3 would excel. I am exactly the type of person you'd think of when it comes to 'Tech 3 user' demographic. So before you dudes bust a nut trying to come up with more clever 'lol carebear' one-liners, maybe you can explain why then, I would find the entire concept behind tech 3 so flaccid. HINT: 'Real' pvpers don't play with toys when having fun. What about the concept do you find 'flaccid'? The performance of T3 ships? The skillpoint loss concept? If you're trying to discuss T3 ship performance, you can't, as all the stats are simply placeholders at this point. But make no mistake, as soon as we have some concrete stuff to test, I'll be there ****ing about what's broke. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.* Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Daan Sai Polytrope	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:12:00 - [205] Originally by: Cadde ... The tactics involved in fielding such a ship will be awesome and pirates will have a field day! See, tactical cruisers, not strategic. (I agree with the rest BTW)
Lusulpher Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:14:00 - [206] Let's end the SP loss whine... If these T3 ships had the stats of Field Commandships and the rank 1 system of training and loss, this would not be an issue. T3 are going to at least be that powerful, but only according to how you assemble your ship and knowing what the enemy has. Expecting Falcons, build some nano/superlong-range Myrmidon. That Myrmidon variant should still lose you SP when a Rapier pops the drones and outranges it. Gimme my skill loss please. Nom nom nom nom. 7
Kim Telkin Caldari Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:29:00 - [207] Edited by: Kim Telkin on 13/02/2009 08:30:44 It was stated that if you have a partially trained skill, you only lose skillpoints equal to the ammount of the highest FULLY trained level in that skill. This, in my opinion, makes it worthwhile to really fly T3 ships. Do so as follows: Train all subsystem skills to level IV. Then train them all 95% of the way to lvl V. Now you go out in combat. You get your ship blown up and you go to lvl IV + 75%. Then lvl IV + 55% etc etc. You can get blown up 5 times per skill. Or: you must die roughly 25 times before you loose a 'REAL' level. Now I don't think that's exploiting the mechanics too much because you only have a lvl 4 bonus in each subsystem, so only having to retrain lvl 4 is fair. And with < 1 day to retrain 20% of a lvl 5, rank 1 skill. That's not so bad. This means you can 'bank' your sp over a few weeks, and then go into battle over and over and loose your ships many times before you become worse at your skils. If 1 day is too much for you. Keep your skills at lvl 3 + 95% of the way to lvl 4. Same thing for 1/5th of the price. I mean really. If you loose a T2 cruiser, how long does it take to grind the 100M to replace it? A few hours at the very least unless you have godlike isk/hr revenue streams. What's a few hours, or a day, to 'replace' your blown up T3 ship. I'll be flying them around. Probably at lvl 3+95% to start with until I figure out how often I die. Then maybe 4+95%.
JimBob Leeroy	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:30:00 - [208] lol personally i think "carebears" will be the primary demographic for t3's, WH's will be full of "carebears" that have wanted to do some pvp, but not have to be in 20 man gang to get past gate camps, or join a big ally so they can do some small roving gang.and this will lead to many pirates, since they can get all rewards from them, since there are no bounties, only what you can get home. but mass limits will make it better odds of meting small gangs, and they will not have 50 friends a jump or 2 away to come if they start to lose.this is the area that t3 ships would be best suited for,so would not think the normal pvper would be who ccp is worried about with these ships.but of course many will try to fit them in to there scope of what eve is, not in the context of what the WH's are going to be.
Cadde Gallente Gene Works AKA-AHN KINGDOM	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:31:00 - [209] Another thing that came to mind is, what about being podded? That is in a way an SP loss even if your clone is up to date. How big that SP loss is depends on how prepared you are. Let me explain it Skill training with +4 implant: 10 days Skill training without +4 implant: 11 days Time "lost" without +4 implant = Time * 0.1 So in that respect, there already is ways to lose good training time in eve. By how much depends on your wallet and access to implants. And those who cannot afford to fly around with +4's in their head when doing pvp are at a huge disadvantage to those who can. At least now things are going to balance out a bit depending on how stupid the T3 pilots will be. --------------- Opinions? Yes they belong to me, not my corp!
Luteros Minmatar Corps der Traenen	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:50:00 - [210] Ships are consumables, but loosing skillpoints will suck. I guess T3 Ships will be expensive. This in combination with possible skillpoint loss will render them useless for anything other than Hi-Sec Mission Running.

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