Hey folks,

Thought it would be time for an update here. So far we are quite happy with the frigates we revamped in Inferno and we will start moving to the others soon.


What we would like to do next:

• Keep working on frigate overhaul, as we barely started so far - that means having a look at role, slot layout of the remaining hulls and sorting them into the combat, attack, or support categories (the bombardment role was removed as feedback shown it wasn't great to start with)


• Revamp the rookie ships to be more versatile - ideally they should offer a lot of small bonuses to show what their race philosophy is all about, without being as efficient at any tech 1 frigate in their own roles


• Since we are removing mining frigates, introduce an ORE frigate to take over that role in general - think of it as an expendable, fast miner able to ninja-mine in hostile environments, while mining barges are more of a static mining platforms


• Introducing an ORE frig makes us realize how painfully outdated mining barges / exhumers are in general - we want to make them all viable in some fashion and not systemically make the Hulk better at that role. That also means having a look at skill requirements, as the jump from a Covetor to a Hulk is almost non-existant (one idea it to move all mining barge skill requirements to level 1, while exhumers keep a mining barge skill requirement at 5)


• Then move into tech 1 destroyer hulls - having a look at the existing ships and introducing 4 new toys to play with.

Thanks for your feedback people, it helped a lot for the Inferno release.

Hey folks,

Thought it would be time for an update here. So far we are quite happy with the frigates we revamped in Inferno and we will start moving to the others soon.


What we would like to do next:

• Keep working on frigate overhaul, as we barely started so far - that means having a look at role, slot layout of the remaining hulls and sorting them into the combat, attack, or support categories (the bombardment role was removed as feedback shown it wasn't great to start with)


• Revamp the rookie ships to be more versatile - ideally they should offer a lot of small bonuses to show what their race philosophy is all about, without being as efficient at any tech 1 frigate in their own roles


• Since we are removing mining frigates, introduce an ORE frigate to take over that role in general - think of it as an expendable, fast miner able to ninja-mine in hostile environments, while mining barges are more of a static mining platforms


• Introducing an ORE frig makes us realize how painfully outdated mining barges / exhumers are in general - we want to make them all viable in some fashion and not systemically make the Hulk better at that role. That also means having a look at skill requirements, as the jump from a Covetor to a Hulk is almost non-existant (one idea it to move all mining barge skill requirements to level 1, while exhumers keep a mining barge skill requirement at 5)


• Then move into tech 1 destroyer hulls - having a look at the existing ships and introducing 4 new toys to play with.

Thanks for your feedback people, it helped a lot for the Inferno release.

Hey folks,

• Revamp the rookie ships to be more versatile - ideally they should offer a lot of small bonuses to show what their race philosophy is all about, without being as efficient at any tech 1 frigate in their own roles

Keep working on frigate overhaul, as we barely started so far - that means having a look at role, slot layout of the remaining hulls and sorting them into the combat, attack, or support categories (the bombardment role was removed as feedback shown it wasn't great to start with)

Revamp the rookie ships to be more versatile - ideally they should offer a lot of small bonuses to show what their race philosophy is all about, without being as efficient at any tech 1 frigate in their own roles

Since we are removing mining frigates, introduce an ORE frigate to take over that role in general - think of it as an expendable, fast miner able to ninja-mine in hostile environments, while mining barges are more of a static mining platforms

Introducing an ORE frig makes us realize how painfully outdated mining barges / exhumers are in general - we want to make them all viable in some fashion and not systemically make the Hulk better at that role. That also means having a look at skill requirements, as the jump from a Covetor to a Hulk is almost non-existant (one idea it to move all mining barge skill requirements to level 1, while exhumers keep a mining barge skill requirement at 5)

Then move into tech 1 destroyer hulls - having a look at the existing ships and introducing 4 new toys to play with.

I just want a gallente droneboat in a destroyer sized package.

Gallente droneboats for all the sizes!

Eta for the above +/-6 months? So we might see bc balancing sometime in 2015?

This.

Ships using sensor damps should receive a stronger bonus, and the damp module cap usage needs to be decreased.

I'd also like to add classic balancing issues, that have been brought up countless of times:

- Armor rigs (where did this suddenly disappear from the list?)
- T1 cruisers need to be looked at, too weak against BCs (BCs too powerful?)
- Tier 1 BCs are meh (Brutix missing a slot, useless rep bonus)
- Tier 2 BCs too cheap
- Drone boats are still not correctly receiving strength bonuses to EWAR & Combat Utility Drone effects
- Eos, wtf
- Electronic Assault frigs


I think these should be looked at first before introducing new problems.

Hey folks,

Thought it would be time for an update here. So far we are quite happy with the frigates we revamped in Inferno and we will start moving to the others soon.


What we would like to do next:

• Keep working on frigate overhaul, as we barely started so far - that means having a look at role, slot layout of the remaining hulls and sorting them into the combat, attack, or support categories (the bombardment role was removed as feedback shown it wasn't great to start with)


• Revamp the rookie ships to be more versatile - ideally they should offer a lot of small bonuses to show what their race philosophy is all about, without being as efficient at any tech 1 frigate in their own roles


• Since we are removing mining frigates, introduce an ORE frigate to take over that role in general - think of it as an expendable, fast miner able to ninja-mine in hostile environments, while mining barges are more of a static mining platforms


• Introducing an ORE frig makes us realize how painfully outdated mining barges / exhumers are in general - we want to make them all viable in some fashion and not systemically make the Hulk better at that role. That also means having a look at skill requirements, as the jump from a Covetor to a Hulk is almost non-existant (one idea it to move all mining barge skill requirements to level 1, while exhumers keep a mining barge skill requirement at 5)


• Then move into tech 1 destroyer hulls - having a look at the existing ships and introducing 4 new toys to play with.

Thanks for your feedback people, it helped a lot for the Inferno release.

Sorry for being so harsh but how can you be happy about a 175dps 8k EHP Merlin with full tackle? How is that balanced in any way shape or form?

That particular setup uses Blasters and can be kited to death due to the low speed of the Merlin and terrible range of Blasters.
It can be countered and it performs its role well (Caldari Hybrid Brawler); it is balanced.

Sister and Daneel,
I hear you both on the wish list and agree 100%, but I think that we should probably keep this thread focused on frigates per the OP's initial post instead of hi-jacking the thread for our own desired topics. That said, the EAF for sure needs more love. And on a side note, just because you found a great ship or a ship which most players have figured out how to fly effectively does not mean that it needs to be nerfed. We are not trying to punish players and alliances for figuring out effective tactics by making every ship a pile of meh within the current and past tactical contexts.

Frigates need to be viable against:
The neuting power of 2xmedium neut Canes, because they have too much PG and can fit them them without issue. (Arties and their need for PG should require a bit more fitting compromise, and perhaps a reduction in PG cost).
The dual webs that a Drake can fit because it has so much tank to spare. Modern gameplay dictates that tank won't save you, mobility and dealing with tacklers will.
The speed of tier3 BCs, that will actually be tricky to run down without being 2-shotted before you're under their guns. Again, speed tank, best tank. They happily trade the EHP of a BC or BS to pack more dps and yet end up more survivable.

(the bombardment role was removed as feedback shown it wasn't great to start with)

ah thats a shame(1) as i was hoping attack ships would be mobile turret platforms like vaga's (2)
so bombardment described missile boats well as spewing out missiles and if they become rather mobile it could be hard to counter them and makes them seemingly OP slow/ weak defence in exchange for plenty(3) of dps and range seems a fair exchange. (4)
also a note on why use a caracal / cerberus instead of drake could be resolved with giving drakes dmg and rate of fire bonus for assault missiles only 30k doing 700-800dps with range assaults is pretty nice role for them instead of drakes being tanky 100k Heavy missile spewing ships doing similar dps to cerb this would give the drake and cerb specific roles thus worth using both ships.(5)

(the bombardment role was removed as feedback shown it wasn't great to start with)

Back on topic -
CCP: Just something to think about: You CAN have a Bombardment ship that uses Turrets.
This would make the Ship Roles look something Like:
Combat: Damage and Tank
Attack: Speed and Damage
Bombardment: Range and Damage
With Combat, Attack, and Bombardment Roles having both Turret and Missile ships. Not sure where drones would fall in.

And how does it compare to other brawlers like, I dunno, the Punisher which can NOT have full tackle to begin with and does a lot less dps while being much slower, less agile and has less tank (that won't regen)?

You may be surprised to know that the Punisher has a higher base speed than the Merlin; if you forgo the armour buffer, you can create something akin to a Navy Slicer setup. This will absolutely shred Passive Blaster Merlins (as Slicer pilots know).
Not quite as fast as a Slicer, or with as much 'oomph' but you were specific about the ship(s).

The stats might look unbeatable in EFT, but that never survives first contact with the enemy; how you fly the ship is always more important because there isn't an 'I win' setup.

words

Mira Lynne you have clearly misunderstand what i wrote, the point was to give drakes higher dps in exchange for having a weaker tank and less mobility and the massive sig is largely to do with t2 missiles adding 5.4% sig rad per missile, missiles do have strange penalties for using the t2's they need to be looked at.

And i felt like talking about it :P

Just out of curiosity; what is it in particular that makes you think the Merlin is overpowered?

Compare it to other t1 frigs and see who wins. Gviing it 3 turrets slots was already good but giving it ALSO a damage bonus was too much. Its tank/dps combo is just miles better than any other t1 frig while still being mobile and able to do dps within kiting scram range. How is that difficult to understand?

Compare it to other t1 frigs and see who wins. Gviing it 3 turrets slots was already good but giving it ALSO a damage bonus was too much. Its tank/dps combo is just miles better than any other t1 frig while still being mobile and able to do dps within kiting scram range. How is that difficult to understand?