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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Arbiter Reformed
Analog Folk SRS.
50
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Posted - 2012.04.23 18:29:00 -
[61] - Quote
is this an indication of wanting all active bonu's to be 10%?
its been a l.ong time coming.. |
Vitalius D'Fox
Zion Conglomerate Ultima Rati0
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 18:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
I usually do not whine. But this this time things get serious I can't accept this merlin nerf. We already have useless kestrel
i can deal with
Commander Slavin wrote:MERLIN Im totally fine with making the merlin a 100% gun boat, but the best thing about the frigate is that 5% to shield resistances per level. Its why this ship is my favourite T1 frigate, its why I use it for 1v1s and its why im worried about the change.
Can we just have the 5% to damage and 5% to shield resistances?
But not with No damage/No tank/No speed piece of gallente-like scrap. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1571
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 18:36:00 -
[63] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:I don't doubt your capabilities. Not sure looking at it on paper but it seems to have no other real weaknesses other than neut vulnerability, that said is it such a bad thing?
Being slow with a massive sig radius and no HP is a pretty good weakness...
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Kalaratiri
Skadi's Call Defiant Legacy
135
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Posted - 2012.04.23 18:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
Vitalius D'Fox wrote: But not with No damage/No tank/No speed piece of gallente-like scrap.
Well, looking at the incursus bonuses, that particular bit of scrap is going to kick your face in :) |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
322
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Posted - 2012.04.23 18:55:00 -
[65] - Quote
Merlin:
I can understand the desire to repeat the Naga's success on a smaller scale. It won't work on the frigate level though. A kiting Merlin would have to be faster then other frigates to maintain range. It would need a tracking bonus to reliably hit targets while going fast. The Merlin has neither of these traits. The ship is beat served with a shield resistance bonus and a damage bonus. |
Lord Haur
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
23
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:01:00 -
[66] - Quote
Kalaratiri wrote:Callic Veratar wrote: 1) Drop the hybrids and swap to 3 missiles. Give it a missile bonus and leave the shield resists
This is a hookbill with a tank bonus. We really don't need that.
Or a Kestrel with a tank bonus. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1571
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 19:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Merlin:
I can understand the desire to repeat the Naga's success on a smaller scale. It won't work on the frigate level though. A kiting Merlin would have to be faster then other frigates to maintain range. It would need a tracking bonus to reliably hit targets while going fast. The Merlin has neither of these traits. The ship is beat served with a shield resistance bonus and a damage bonus.
I was thinking about that, but Void S with an optimal bonus is super duper sexy. Also, that kills the central idea behind Rail Merlins... All things considered: +1 to Dmg + Resists.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Kalaratiri
Skadi's Call Defiant Legacy
135
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:09:00 -
[68] - Quote
Lord Haur wrote:Kalaratiri wrote:Callic Veratar wrote: 1) Drop the hybrids and swap to 3 missiles. Give it a missile bonus and leave the shield resists
This is a hookbill with a tank bonus. We really don't need that. Or a Kestrel with a tank bonus.
So keep the kestrel as it is... and give it a tank bonus :p Problem solved.
I'd prefer to either keep the merlin's split weapons, or focus it on guns. That way, the caldari have a full turret line-up from frig to BS, as well as the missile ships. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
187
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:19:00 -
[69] - Quote
Kalaratiri wrote:Lord Haur wrote:Kalaratiri wrote:Callic Veratar wrote: 1) Drop the hybrids and swap to 3 missiles. Give it a missile bonus and leave the shield resists
This is a hookbill with a tank bonus. We really don't need that. Or a Kestrel with a tank bonus. So keep the kestrel as it is... and give it a tank bonus :p Problem solved. I'd prefer to either keep the merlin's split weapons, or focus it on guns. That way, the caldari have a full turret line-up from frig to BS, as well as the missile ships.
Remeber that there's still the Bantam, Condor, Griffin, and Heron to fit in there. The Griffin will likely stay ECM and one of them will likely be some form of support ship, but that's only 2 of 4. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
811
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 20:05:00 -
[70] - Quote
Ines Fy wrote:Just a reminder. Please don't forget frigs have also a role you are forgetting: open cynos for caps! We use some frigs with high CPU + big cargo space to open cynos to move our caps arround. Please do not destroy CPU or cargo space of those frigs during these changes, or you will have the fury of every capital pilot directed to you soon! Just dreaming, but maybe the frig that will fill the role of mining can also fill this role and have a small bonus for cyno activities???
**** your risk free capital ship movement.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
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Caellach Marellus
Aideron Robotics Darkmatter Initiative
518
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Posted - 2012.04.23 20:20:00 -
[71] - Quote
With their PG and range bonus, what's the likelyhood of us getting sniper beamfit Tormentors? Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 20:20:00 -
[72] - Quote
Quote:PUNISHER
New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage and 5% bonus to armor resistances per skill leve Slot layout: 4 H, 2 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, no launcher Fittings: 55 PWG, 124 CP Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350 / 500 / 45 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 300 / 180 s / 1.6 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 / 3.35 / 1047000 / 3.28 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 25km / 640 / Sensor strength: 9 Rada Signature radius: 37
This is very interesting. This is a very odd thing to do with the cap though. I am wondering if this will discourage lasers in favor of the old autocannon bleeder fits
Quote:MERLIN
New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% to small hybrid turret range per leve Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, no launcher Fittings: 40 PWG, 180 CP Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 350 / 35 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 260 / 180 s / 1.4 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.7 / 997000 / 3.45 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 580 / Sensor strength: 11 Gravimetri Signature radius: 39
This thing will own really hard, but if you are trying to get more people to active tank, you won't be achieving that goal by removing the shield resist bonus. This just screams mse, scram, web, ab/mwd, blasters with 150-250 dps. I think you might also be trying to get people to fit rails, but blasters on this ship will **** the pants off of most things
Quote:INCURSUS
New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per leve Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, no launcher Fittings: 45 PWG, 135 CP Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 450 / 50 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 280 / 180 s / 1.5 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340 / 3.15 / 1028000 / 3.0 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 600 / Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometri Signature radius: 42
This cap reduction seems fairly iffy, especially with the rep bonus. The rep bonus, low cpu addition, and 4 slots seems like you are deliberately forcing people to fly duel rep incursii with no webs which seems ~meh~ . I would honestly prefer to fly the current incursus then the one you are proposing. Turn the armor rep bonus to a falloff bonus and you will have a nice little ship, but this thing would probably die, or fail to mantain range control on the current incursus and kill nothing. I foresee this ship becoming really boring to fight against with the kind of tank it might be able to achieve. |
Javius Rong
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
1
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Posted - 2012.04.23 20:43:00 -
[73] - Quote
Very interesting first step, but no one will rail fit the Merlin with it being so slow and allowing for no way to kite effectively. I see it as a blaster fit with those 4 mids going MWD, web+scram, shield mod.
So I am hypothesising that taking the Caldari as an example...
Combat: Merlin (Med-long range) Attack: Condor (tracking + resists) Bombardment: Kestrel (ROF + Missile Velocity)
Support:
Heron - Covert/Scan Bantam - Mining Griffin - E-war
How soon till we see the rest of rebalance. Taking just combat class it is a bit hard to compare ships and roles. |
Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
84
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 20:45:00 -
[74] - Quote
I understand that this is by no means complete and this is only your first round of frigates being looked at; but the balance between races that seem traditional are:
amarr - king of armour tank they have the 5% resist per level caldari - king of shield tank they have the 5% resist per level minmatar - active tank bonus (shield) gallente - active tank bonus (armour)
it seems that the punisher is keeping its brawling resists and caldari are not receiving any. unless of course your plan for the "bombarding kestrel" is to give it 5% shield resist per level in which case I will fall deeply in love with it.
that said, this staggered release of frigate updates seems to do nothing but breed mayhem.
i'd recommend doing your best to release your 'vision' for the other frigates as quickly as possible so players can give a better opinion on the overall changes taking place as opposed to looking at a single run of frigates. |
Fracture Antollare
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 20:58:00 -
[75] - Quote
Quote:INCURSUS:
New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, no launchers Fittings: 45 PWG, 135 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 450 / 500 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 280 / 180 s / 1.55 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340 / 3.15 / 1028000 / 3.0 s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 10 (TEN) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 600 / 4 Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric Signature radius: 42
FTFY - More drone capacity. |
Xorth Adimus
Blackwater USA Inc. Against ALL Authorities
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 21:06:00 -
[76] - Quote
Not much of any use here just moving some deckchairs about on the Titanic,
Ships need a key role yes.. but all truely great ships have two roles and a range of fits and should allow short or long range combat
TORMENTOR: New bonuses: 10% to small energy turret range and 10% bonus to small energy capacitor use per level
Should work ok short or long range (mini apoc)
PUNISHER: New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage and 5% bonus to armor resistances per skill level
All hail our new Amarr overloads!
MERLIN: New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% to small hybrid turret range per level
Got an issue with this and it upsets the whole caldari rail line up, range bonus is mostly pointless with T2 spike .. merlin, Ferox and Rokh and T2 varients should have 5% bonus to hybrid damage 5% bonus to hybrid turret range and 2.5% resists per level. Harpy shows how this could work well (even though it is T2 hull/ bonus).
INCURSUS: New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level
This could work and fits in with the line up of brutix, hyperion however I always thought this would be more useful if it was split into something to help get to range (be it short or long).
5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level 15% increase in agility per level during MWD use (higher acceleration).
RIFTER: Unchanged bonuses
Agree already win sauce
Also T1 frigs need a 'general role bonus', I'd suggest something as follows:
- 2.5% reduction in base signiture radius per level
10% bonus to afterburner speed per level +5m2 drone space +2.5% increase on webifier strength per level -5% bonus on cap use using propulsion scrambling modules Another option is to be more generous with T1 hull cpu and PG so new players can fit them easily and older players can go back and slap a 400mm plate or a medium extender on them without too much worry or rigging and full fit them out in all kinds of fun interesting ways.
Other T1 ships need a similar role bonus not as strong as a T2 bonus but totally unique useful (not overpowered) on T1s and something you give up when you use a specialised T2 hull.
Rig changes are kinda terrible for shield extending, I always thought the sig issues with 3 rigs is more of a dubious choice these days with Teir 3 Bcs and battleships / titans about blapping people. So its pretty balanced but not perfect since it is overused with little competing alternative. Such as sig reduction rigs...
I think that signiture needs to be more of a key area of balance were smaller signiture, especially on frigates is a major selling point (and the adverse being a real issue for larger ships with extenders!), ships with smaller sig should be the bane of any ships with larger turrets not just lol 'blap' (see above).
If you are looking at T1 cruisers next I would suggest they also get new roles and brand new bonuses to support them, not just rearranging the same tired old ****. |
Kalaratiri
Skadi's Call Defiant Legacy
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 21:11:00 -
[77] - Quote
Xorth Adimus wrote: Another option is to be more generous with T1 hull cpu and PG so new players can fit them easily and older players can go back and slap a 400mm plate or a medium extender on them without too much worry or rigging and full fit them out in all kinds of fun interesting ways.
Just a note about this: The tormentor under the proposed changes actually has a higher base PG than the retribution. Sounds like enough to me :p |
Creat Posudol
Destined for Greatness Inc.
57
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 21:13:00 -
[78] - Quote
While I generally like these changes, are these all the ships that are going to be balanced in Inferno? Or is this just what you have so far, more to come? What about all the other frigs that are basically useless once you have trained "[racial] Frigate III"?
How about a support frigate, not necessarily ewar? Why not have a remote repair [range/cap] bonus (similar to cruisers) on a T1 hull?
I really hope there is more to come, as much as I like the changes, the list is a bit short... |
Frothgar
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 21:33:00 -
[79] - Quote
Kalaratiri wrote:Xorth Adimus wrote: Another option is to be more generous with T1 hull cpu and PG so new players can fit them easily and older players can go back and slap a 400mm plate or a medium extender on them without too much worry or rigging and full fit them out in all kinds of fun interesting ways.
Just a note about this: The tormentor under the proposed changes actually has a higher base PG than the retribution. Sounds like enough to me :p
You mean we might actually see something use small beams outside of a crusader?
I like how the ships compare to one another, though I'm a little sad about the merlin having optimal instead of 5% shield resist/level. If anything should be a short range brawler its the merlin vs the condor being more of a light missile/kiting ship.
Just IMO.
I'm just happy that frigate hulls are getting some love and might actually have enough options to generate more than 1 cookie cutter fit.
Just off of the proposed stats I can think you could do the tormenter via any number of fittings such as close range pulse/scram, lower tier pulse, plate, scram, AB. Beams and shield extender with long point. Beams with TDs.
I can actually think of half a dozen fits I want to try instead of the current situation where its "This is how you fit a rifter, don't really do it any other way"
Edit: Can't wait to see what they do with T1 cruisers. WTB 250mm rail deimos, Beam omens, Blaster Moas etc. |
Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 21:38:00 -
[80] - Quote
You can already do a blaster moa and it ******* owns. |
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Anxiir
7
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Posted - 2012.04.23 22:02:00 -
[81] - Quote
I know its useless to even reply but I can't support the Merlin nerf.
You are taking away the only thing that made it good.
However, a damage bonus on the Punisher... Its about time! How about adding a third mid so it can hit something moving faster than a battleship without having to add tracking enhancers. In fact I would be very pleased if it just added a third mid slot and kept the current bonus with a bit more cpu. Hell you could even just give it damage and tracking bonus, in its current state it tanks extremely well for a t1 frigate, much like its t2 counterparts
The incursus is in dire need of a buff. But the current idea makes me wonder what is going to happen to the Tristan, the real brawler of the Gallente frigate lineup
As Gallente, i like free stuff, but it doesn't seem right giving Gallente 2x powerhouse frigates, Caldari is left with none (assuming the nerf goes through - it will), Amarr gets one and Minmatar keeps the Rifter. Just sayin, the Incursus isnt the main combat frigate of Gallente
I know destroyers are not being discuss but for the love of God PLEASE GIVE THE COERCER A SECOND MID SLOT!
TL;DR Merlin Change
- Nerfing is Bad
- It's resist bonus is what made it viable
Incursus Change
- Decent overall, but why do Gallente get 2x combat frigates (Tristan)
- The incursus is a lower tier frigate, why is it being buffed to a top tier level
- Please don't nerf the Tristan too
Punisher Change
- Damage Bonus: win
- Only 2 mid slots still. Lets give it a web
- It may be more benefit in giving it damage and cap use and adding a third mid slot, as it already tanks extremely well
Offtopic - Give the Coercer a second mid slot |
Szilardis
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 22:15:00 -
[82] - Quote
The Merlin's shield resistance bonus is why I have more solo kills in it than any other hull...Take that away AND lower the speed with buffer rigs, and it's pointless.
Honestly there's nothing really wrong at all with the merlin as is... |
Xydros
Veto. Veto Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 22:24:00 -
[83] - Quote
Not to be rude, but do you even fly frigates?
3 of the boats you listed are viable as is.
The Rifter which you aren't touching, this is good... touching this boat when its that damn good would be sacrilegious.
The Merlin: This boat may not hit hard, but its uses as a heavy tackler aren't to be over looked, its the first shot a newb gets at really having a boat that can tank hard passively and hold down a target while a gang kills it. Its pretty decent solo boat when you get the skills for the guns, so I can totally see changing the hardpoint config... removing the resist bonus is stupid tho as it makes the ships really good.
But shouldn't a caldari boat be rockets?
The Incursus: This boat is an amazing, cheap anti-interceptor platform, its a bit weak so I get adding slots and crap. If you are turning it into a tank boat, what Gallente boat is going to take on the roles of a balls out dog fighter?
The rep bonus is interesting and all, but I don't know how useful itll be in frig warfare, but its worth testing I guess. |
Bouh Revetoile
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
13
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Posted - 2012.04.23 22:27:00 -
[84] - Quote
People ! Remember ! *All* frigates will be revamped !! These are not the only ones ! Their sisters are coming !
Hopefully lineup in each race will be good and coherent ; good work IMO for the moment. :-) |
Alexa Coates
The Scope Gallente Federation
97
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 22:46:00 -
[85] - Quote
"INCURSUS:
New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level"
JESUS H. CHRIST THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER TO PUT ON A FRIGATE. Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
249
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 22:54:00 -
[86] - Quote
Eh.
Turning frigates into smaller versions of existing, larger ships (like the Tormentor being a mini-Apoc) is a poor idea. You should be balancing frigs capabilities and bonuses so they work with their class, rather than making them congruent with their larger counterparts. A frigate with a bonus to small weapon range is utterly worthless, since it's totally incompatible with the way one flies a frigate (which is usually at knife-fighting range, getting close, maintaining transversal on larger targets, and shooting down drones). An armor tanked frigate slowly orbiting its target at 15-20km while plinking with Scorch is just going to get one-shot by a Hurricane.
Part of the reason the Rifter is such a good ship is that it's a frigate that plays to the strengths of frigates *as a class*-- it's fast, nimble, and has a tiny sig radius. It has a flexible slot layout (bonused guns plus a utility high, can be shield or armor tanked, actively or passively) and can do enough damage to kill other frigates. It's a good tackler and a good solo ship (for a T1 frigate anyway).
In this vein, I like what you're doing with the Incursus (mostly) since it's fast and gets a local rep bonus (which can help a frigate tank drones while dodging big guns). The Punisher looks like it will still be good at what it does now (heavy tackling). The Merlin looks awful, the Tormentor looks awful. Both ships are slow and bonused to range (typically not a useful bonus on a frigate).
Also, maybe consider giving all T1 frigates a utility highslot? They're so vulnerable to neuting-- giving them a utility high so they could fit undersized guns + a NOS would make them much more practical ships to fly. |
Nyx Sophia
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 00:04:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
There will be no skill change for Inferno. Your destroyer and battlecruiser skills are safe for now
Battlecruisers will have to wait until we have rebalanced frigates and destroyers to have something clean to compare
Can you confirm that when you say Inferno you mean Inferno and not Escalation to Inferno?
Also, will we need need Racial Frigate/Cruiser to III or IV to receive the new skills when this does go live? |
Blakslabeth
White Star Line 2010 GIANTSBANE.
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 00:44:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hello folks,
There will be no skill change for Inferno. Your destroyer and battlecruiser skills are safe for now
Glad to see you're balancing ships but... But I dropped my current skill plan on all my toons and was rapidly training all races to frig 4/cruiser 3/ destroyer 4&5/bc 4&5. I want a month of training back... Total waste of my training time. And not all the toons where perception/willpower but I didn't want your changes to prevent my progression in the future.
You guys should really get your story straight before you publish - as us peons have to pay for it.
|
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics Darkmatter Initiative
96
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 01:26:00 -
[89] - Quote
Are you going to be making active armor rep capless?
The Incursus will still be overshadowed by the Rifter. Which is faster, requires no cap to shoot its guns, and can fit both a web and scram with a active armor tank because of the utility high, has a smaller sig radius, etc... You are forcing the Incursus to fit a cap booster and giving up the web, which it needs to dictate range because it is slower. You are also forcing it to be a armor tank where the Rifter has the flexibility to be either a shield or armor. It also receives utility high slot. Ships that you are pigeonholing shouldn't be entirely crippled and have some flexibility.
A few suggestions if you are going to keep the armor rep bonus:
- Make the Incursus faster than the Rifter or have a smaller sig radius.
- Make the Incursus more like the Comet. This ship is a excellent example of what a Gallente Combat ship should be. Reduce down to two turrets and increase the damage bonus. This will free up a high slot for a utility high slot.
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Anxiir
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 01:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
I still don't understand why the Incursus is being compared to the Rifter. it should be compared to the Kestrel, Breacher and Inquisitor. The Tristan is the Gallente equivalent to the Rifter.
Tristan - Rifter - Punisher - Merlin
Why is a mining frigate being buffed at all? Why not the Inquisitor?
Seems and odd choice IMO. |
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