Any kind of armor / shield rig that promotes passive tanking now has a penalty to ship velocity instead of signature radius. Any kind of armor / shield rig that promotes active tanking now has a penalty to ship signature radius instead of velocity. Penalty amount themselves are not changing.

Will comment on the frigate changes separately, but one thing that jumped out at me was:


Rigs that increase resistances towards specific damage types are useful for both active and buffer tanks. Which penalty would they get - speed or sig?

Also - why F&I and not the test server thread?

FYP

That said, racial tanking bonuses are nice as a theme to keep/enhance.

Im totally fine with making the merlin a 100% gun boat, but the best thing about the frigate is that 5% to shield resistances per level. Its why this ship is my favourite T1 frigate, its why I use it for 1v1s and its why im worried about the change.

Can we just have the 5% to damage and 5% to shield resistances?

My poor merlin. RIP, heavy tackler.

Hello folks,

As mentioned in the ship balancing Dev Blog, Inferno will be the starting point for a much needed ship overhaul.


In this topic we will focus on Combat frigate rebalancing, which affects:

• Tormentor: role changed from mining frigate to medium range combat vessel
• Punisher: improved role to fit close-medium range brawler
• Merlin: overhauled role to fit medium-long range turret platform
• Incursus: overhauld role to fit close range brawler
• Rifter: role untouched, it already is made of win and dipped with awesomesauce

That's all for now, constructive comments are welcome

You say: "these frigs are now combat frigs". Agree! but when you say "this is middle range, this is short", I disagree.

what you are just doing is condemming a frig to sub-role inside a role. Unless all other frigs are combat frigs and you will have short and medium range frigs to offer, setting the range of a specific frig and set the bonus and attributes to fit this range is not good.

--

Assuming range is something done and the decision to tag frigs with it is final I want to raise a question:

To dictate range you need speed. Looking at the speed of the frigs that are middle range, were is it?

(Other good stuff about speed versus range)

I also agree that taking away the Amarrian mining frigate without giving it an alternative, and leaving other races mining frigates intact is especially poor form. The Arbitrator is the Amarr pilot's next mining ship and let's face it, mining drones suck.

This argument is pointless. All mining frigates and cruisers are being rebuilt as combat or logistics ships.

This argument is pointless. All mining frigates and cruisers are being rebuilt as combat or logistics ships.

The argument is that they should do them all at once, not one at a time, with (knowing CCP) a significant delay between each wave of changes.

Yeah, because armor rep ships are used so much in PvP.

Combat navitas? Epic. Still, a frig like the navitas mines like a beast even compared to cruisers, so what are noobs to do?

I gotta ask.
So the first mining ship for a new pilot to eve will be a Mining barge? Doesn't that feel like a rather large step, and an expensive one, if someone wants to start with mining?
Will you introduce a lower tier mining ship for new players?

They have discussed new entry level ORE mining vessels. Likely the skillbook and ship provided for free off the tutorials.

They have discussed new entry level ORE mining vessels. Likely the skillbook and ship provided for free off the tutorials.

Well, in frigate combat.. yes. Yes they are. Almost all frigates I've seen that naturally armor tank are rep fit. There a few plated fits, but due to the speed penalty on ships that often rely on their speed...


In other news, YAY INCURSUS! :D

All you have to do is time your shots in your frig, and armor rep frigs usually die. However, +2 low slots on the incursus? It's the new rifter.

BTW, I want to strongly encourage you to consider how powerful a utility high is on a frigate. A nos is just about the only way that you can keep your guns running under the inevitable neut spam. If its at all possible, I fit a nos to every close range frigate I fly. These close range brawling frigates that require capacitor don't have room for a nos....

-Liang

MERLIN:

New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% to small hybrid turret range per level
Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, no launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG, 180 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 350 / 350
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 260 / 180 s / 1.44
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.7 / 997000 / 3.45 s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 580 / 5
Sensor strength: 11 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 39

Please no.

Im totally fine with making the merlin a 100% gun boat, but the best thing about the frigate is that 5% to shield resistances per level. Its why this ship is my favourite T1 frigate, its why I use it for 1v1s and its why im worried about the change.

Can we just have the 5% to damage and 5% to shield resistances?

The Incursus can get away with a cap booster in its fit. Not quite sure how the punisher will do though.

Hello folks,

We want to start with Tech 1 frigates, then move our way up as time passes, which means:

• There will be no skill change for Inferno. Your destroyer and battlecruiser skills are safe for now
• Battlecruisers will have to wait until we have rebalanced frigates and destroyers to have something clean to compare them with

Link? I'm curious.

I dunno dude, look at that pathetic capacitor size on an active tanked ship with guns that take cap. I'll undoubtedly end up fitting a a cap booster, but I tend to do that anyway. It still isn't enough - the nos really is "required". Its not like I'm talking out my ass about frigate combat here - feel free to go hunt up my videos.

-Liang

And Cruisers?

Hello folks,

As mentioned in the ship balancing Dev Blog, Inferno will be the starting point for a much needed ship overhaul. This post is to discuss planned changes for frigates before we move forward with Singularity testing.


We want to start with Tech 1 frigates, then move our way up as time passes, which means:

In this topic we will focus on Combat frigate rebalancing, which affects:

• Merlin: overhauled role to fit medium-long range turret platform

Exact changes below (without skills):


MERLIN:

• New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% to small hybrid turret range per level
• Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, no launchers
• Fittings: 40 PWG, 180 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 350 / 350
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 260 / 180 s / 1.44
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.7 / 997000 / 3.45 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 580 / 5
• Sensor strength: 11 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 39

That's all for now, constructive comments are welcome

1) Drop the hybrids and swap to 3 missiles. Give it a missile bonus and leave the shield resists

MERLIN
Im totally fine with making the merlin a 100% gun boat, but the best thing about the frigate is that 5% to shield resistances per level. Its why this ship is my favourite T1 frigate, its why I use it for 1v1s and its why im worried about the change.

Can we just have the 5% to damage and 5% to shield resistances?

I don't doubt your capabilities. Not sure looking at it on paper but it seems to have no other real weaknesses other than neut vulnerability, that said is it such a bad thing?

But not with No damage/No tank/No speed piece of gallente-like scrap.

This is a hookbill with a tank bonus. We really don't need that.

Merlin:

I can understand the desire to repeat the Naga's success on a smaller scale. It won't work on the frigate level though. A kiting Merlin would have to be faster then other frigates to maintain range. It would need a tracking bonus to reliably hit targets while going fast. The Merlin has neither of these traits. The ship is beat served with a shield resistance bonus and a damage bonus.

Or a Kestrel with a tank bonus.

So keep the kestrel as it is... and give it a tank bonus :p Problem solved.

I'd prefer to either keep the merlin's split weapons, or focus it on guns. That way, the caldari have a full turret line-up from frig to BS, as well as the missile ships.

Just a reminder. Please don't forget frigs have also a role you are forgetting: open cynos for caps!

We use some frigs with high CPU + big cargo space to open cynos to move our caps arround. Please do not destroy CPU or cargo space of those frigs during these changes, or you will have the fury of every capital pilot directed to you soon!




Just dreaming, but maybe the frig that will fill the role of mining can also fill this role and have a small bonus for cyno activities???

PUNISHER

New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage and 5% bonus to armor resistances per skill leve
Slot layout: 4 H, 2 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, no launcher
Fittings: 55 PWG, 124 CP
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350 / 500 / 45
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 300 / 180 s / 1.6
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 / 3.35 / 1047000 / 3.28
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 /
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 25km / 640 /
Sensor strength: 9 Rada
Signature radius: 37

MERLIN

New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% to small hybrid turret range per leve
Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, no launcher
Fittings: 40 PWG, 180 CP
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 350 / 35
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 260 / 180 s / 1.4
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.7 / 997000 / 3.45
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 /
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 580 /
Sensor strength: 11 Gravimetri
Signature radius: 39

INCURSUS

New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per leve
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, no launcher
Fittings: 45 PWG, 135 CP
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 450 / 50
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 280 / 180 s / 1.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340 / 3.15 / 1028000 / 3.0
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 /
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 600 /
Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometri
Signature radius: 42

INCURSUS:

New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, no launchers
Fittings: 45 PWG, 135 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 450 / 500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 280 / 180 s / 1.55
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340 / 3.15 / 1028000 / 3.0 s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 10 (TEN)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 600 / 4
Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 42

Another option is to be more generous with T1 hull cpu and PG so new players can fit them easily and older players can go back and slap a 400mm plate or a medium extender on them without too much worry or rigging and full fit them out in all kinds of fun interesting ways.

Just a note about this: The tormentor under the proposed changes actually has a higher base PG than the retribution. Sounds like enough to me :p

Hello folks,

There will be no skill change for Inferno. Your destroyer and battlecruiser skills are safe for now

I still don't understand why the Incursus is being compared to the Rifter. it should be compared to the Kestrel, Breacher and Inquisitor. The Tristan is the Gallente equivalent to the Rifter.

Tristan - Rifter - Punisher - Merlin

Why is a mining frigate being buffed at all? Why not the Inquisitor?

Seems an odd choice IMO.

I'm assuming the Tristan will fall under either the Bombardment role since it is the stealth bomber base.

Yes thats true. That also points to a different issue with how the ships were implemented to begin with. I can only assume the Tristan was chosen as the bomber hull because it had a split weapons system. But for the other races, the lesser tier 3 was chosen.

So does this mean my precious Tristan is going to be nerfed to hell to bring the Incursus to the top tier 3 Gallente frigate so it is in line with the scheme of the other races?

At fanfest they announced they are getting rid of tiers. Each frigate should be getting a buff.

There are no tiers anymore, just classes. Frigates be frigates. Honestly, this is how the game should be-- now we just have to convince CCP to make them all useful for something.

Hello folks,

• Tormentor: role changed from mining frigate to medium range combat vessel
• Punisher: improved role to fit close-medium range brawler
• Merlin: overhauled role to fit medium-long range turret platform
• Incursus: overhauld role to fit close range brawler
• Rifter: role untouched, it already is made of win and dipped with awesomesauce

I don't 'get' the merlin changes.

It is currently quite viable in many ways somewhat similar to the Tristan and has a ton of viable ways to fit it. Instead of stomping on the one viable heavy tackler the T1 frig line has (punisher really suffers from no web) why not buff another Caldari frig for hybrid use?
And that seems to be reasoning here; adding a purely hybrid wielding frigate to the T1 Caldari line up.

But I think you're ruining what's currently one of the few viable T1 non faction frigates (besides the Rifter) for higher skillpoint pilots that fly T1 frigates. You'd be better off buffing something currently unused like the Condor or the Bantam for this.

Changing the Merlin by making it seemingly worse is an odd way in my opinion to add variety.

Just a reminder. Please don't forget frigs have also a role you are forgetting: open cynos for caps!

We use some frigs with high CPU + big cargo space to open cynos to move our caps arround. Please do not destroy CPU or cargo space of those frigs during these changes, or you will have the fury of every capital pilot directed to you soon!

The changes from the original are in brackets.

INCURSUS:

• New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level (new)
• Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M (+1), 4 L (+2), 3 turrets, no launchers
• Fittings: 45 PWG (+11), 135 CPU (-25)
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 (+87) / 450 (+82) / 500 (+132)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 280 (-45) / 180 s (-54.38) / 1.55 (+0.16)
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340 (-4) / 3.15 (+0.005) / 1028000 / 3.0 s (?)
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km (-7.5) / 600 (-20) / 4 (+1)
• Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric
• Signature radius: 42 (-2)

Downloading now. If this "great re-balance" is just the 5 frigates mentioned, I'm going to fly to Reykjavik and personally defecate on their doorstep.

Escalation doesn't have these updates...

I'm assuming the Tristan will fall under either the Bombardment role since it is the stealth bomber base.

Will there be a ship assigned for mining newbies?

OK, had a ponder.

Not as such, but there will be an ORE ship (probably roughly frigate sized) to take over for the racial mining frigates. This is much more in line with the general concept, and I like it :D

The Incursus has had 3 mid slots for a while. Also, the CPU has been buffed from a base of 110 to 135 (+25). Looks like a simple typo but the slot changes are incorrect. I wonder what other corrections need to be made? I just noticed the Incursus because I fly one and haven't had any experience in the other frigates listed so I won't comment on those.

Actually the Tristan is the perfect example of the brawler, with the slight drawback that it can't actually stay close to it's target unless it's bigger. It's just SOOOO slow...

Navitas)

BOMBARDMENT FRIGATES: classification is mainly cosmetic, not much different role wise than Combat / Attack frigates. Mainly use missiles, speed / EHP between Attack and Combat frigates and depending on their individual purpose. Is made of the Inquisitor, Condor, Kestrel, Tristan and Breacher. Supposedly being split up by two versions, those that are close range based with high damage (rockets) and the others being more of a medium range platforms (and thus light missile based).

Great comments in here, let's address some of them.

• ONLY 5 SHIPS?!: unfortunately for Inferno, yes. We initially wanted to revamp all frigates for this release, however problem is we are lacking Dev power at the moment (I am assigned to other projects as well, and Tallest is playing daddy with his twins ) so yep that is lame, but sadly we will have to cope with that for now.

Just keep in mind that the Dramiel is pretty much the only "t1" frigate that's viable outside of super-close range scenarios. This is due to it's insane speed and ability to fit a decent tank. All the other frigates are too slow, too fragile, or both, and can't survive at mid ranges at all when any ships between BS and frigate size are on the field.

I don't think you want to make T1 frigates that are as powerful as Dramiels, though, so best gear them towards close-range bullet-dodging :)

As I said before, I think you could also afford to throw some bigger stats / bonuses at frigates than other classes of ship-- they're so weak to begin with and are typically flown by newer players. As long as their T2 equivalents are still "better," I see no reason not to give T1 frigates a pretty big set of buffs.

SUPPORT FRIGATES: split in two, first, the purely scanning frigates - Magnate, Heron, Imicus, Probe - and EW frigates - Crucifier, Griffin, Imicus, Probe. All need a boost, but their role should not be changed much.

Great comments in here, let's address some of them.

MINING SHIPS & TORMENTOR CHANGES: the plan is to completely change mining ships into more interesting hulls, and possibly add a basic mining role to Rookie ships and/or bit more advanced one for a special ORE frigate. Since we can't do much more than 5 frigates for Inferno, that means the other mining frigates will stay that way until we overhaul them, hopefully to be touched soon after Inferno.

[/list]

If you revamp the tormentor in this pass then Amarr new players will be entirely without a mining frigate for a while.

I wouldn't do that only knowing the then rest of the update 'hopefully will come soon'.

TORMENTOR:

• New bonuses: 10% to small energy turret range and 10% bonus to small energy capacitor use per level
• Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, no launchers
• Fittings: 60 PWG, 140 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350 / 450 / 400
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 280 / 180 s / 1.55
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.05 / 1180000 / 3.37 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km / 620 / 4
• Sensor strength: 9 Radar
• Signature radius: 35

PUNISHER:

• New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage and 5% bonus to armor resistances per skill level
• Slot layout: 4 H, 2 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, no launchers
• Fittings: 55 PWG, 124 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350 / 500 / 450
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 300 / 180 s / 1.66
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 / 3.35 / 1047000 / 3.28 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 25km / 640 / 4
• Sensor strength: 9 Radar
• Signature radius: 37

MERLIN:

• New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% to small hybrid turret range per level
• Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, no launchers
• Fittings: 40 PWG, 180 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 350 / 350
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 260 / 180 s / 1.44
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.7 / 997000 / 3.45 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 580 / 5
• Sensor strength: 11 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 39

INCURSUS:

• New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness per level
• Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, no launchers
• Fittings: 45 PWG, 135 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 450 / 500
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 280 / 180 s / 1.55
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340 / 3.15 / 1028000 / 3.0 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 600 / 4
• Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric
• Signature radius: 42

RIFTER:

• Unchanged bonuses
• Unchanged Slot layout: 4 H, 3 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, 2 launchers
• Unchanged fittings: 37 PWG, 125 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 450 / 400 / 400
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 240 / 180 s / 1.33
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 355 / 3.19 / 1067000 / 3.19 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 22.5km / 660 / 4
• Sensor strength: 8 Ladar
• Signature radius: 35

Disclaimer: haven't flown a Merlin in years. Hybrid range tends to a more bombardment and less brawler/combat. No utility highs and less cap aswell. Whatever this Merlin is, a combat frigate it isn't. Suggest to change a low in a high, give 2 (or 3) launcher slots and switch optimal with resist bonus.

The old incursus was definitely an attack frigate. There isn't enough cap to run a repairer. The huge repair bonus also begs to be used, focusing the new incursus more to tank than gank. I've got the same remark here as I had with the punisher. If a ships needs a 10% bonus to repping to be competitive, then it's the SAR itself that's underpowered. The same argument could be made for the small shield booster. Giving a punisher the grid for 400 plate but no cap for a repper and giving the incursus the bonus for a repper eliminates versatility rather than creates it.

Great comments in here, let's address some of them.

• CAPACITORS: also fair points regarding capacitors, in some cases (Punisher especially) we initially wanted capacitor to be the drawback of these frigates, but it may be quite difficult for them to do their jobs while being affected by neuts. We'll iterate on that.
• ONLY 5 SHIPS?!: unfortunately for Inferno, yes. We initially wanted to revamp all frigates for this release, however problem is we are lacking Dev power at the moment (I am assigned to other projects as well, and Tallest is playing daddy with his twins ) so yep that is lame, but sadly we will have to cope with that for now.
• MINING SHIPS & TORMENTOR CHANGES: the plan is to completely change mining ships into more interesting hulls, and possibly add a basic mining role to Rookie ships and/or bit more advanced one for a special ORE frigate. Since we can't do much more than 5 frigates for Inferno, that means the other mining frigates will stay that way until we overhaul them, hopefully to be touched soon after Inferno.
• ATTACK FRIGATES: in general faster than the other frigates, with good damage, suited for interception or just damage dealing, but less resilient than combat frigates. Includes the Executioner (turret ship), Bantam (turret ship), Atron (turret ship), Navitas (dedicated drone ship), Slasher (turret ship) and Burst (TBD, possibly drone ship if role doesn't conflict with Navitas)

Disclaimer: haven't flown a Merlin in years. Hybrid range tends to a more bombardment and less brawler/combat. No utility highs and less cap aswell. Whatever this Merlin is, a combat frigate it isn't. Suggest to change a low in a high, give 2 (or 3) launcher slots and switch optimal with resist bonus.

I like the changes and the discussion thus far, but please please do not do this piecemeal. Finish whatever it is that you have to do and then come back with the resources and focus fire this project.

The changes you are talking about making "for now" are just going to work to skew the market further and make the already obsolete hulls more-so. Further I expect it will be easier on you guys to not have to go back and change ships you've already released to fit in with the entire fleet yet to come. Save yourselves the grief of all the QQ my awesome sauce ship got nerfed and keep them all to play with until you get it right.

Any decent FC can tell you that you don't win the fight without the correct fleet composition and even with the perfect counter fleet you will lose by not focusing your efforts.

Please do not put this out half/quarter finished. Let it sit for the month or however long it takes to free up the resources and then knock it out. I like the CCP "it comes when it's finished" model so let's please stick to that.

Edit: Also you're telling us that the most fundamental game design portion of Eve is only getting worked on by One person?! That's absolutely absurd to continue on with and expect anything but mediocre results. No way am I bashing you or your abilities, it's just way too big of a responsibility and task for a single person to not miss something here or there. If you want to give us something, give us the ORE mining frigate/destroyer classes. That's a way more reasonably goal imo.

Great comments in here, let's address some of them.

• MERLIN: we can see how the loss of the shield resistance bonus poses a problem to this hull; we first wanted to get feedback on a possible medium-long range overhaul for that ship, but as people mentioned here, that's very difficult to achieve for a slow frigate or even for any kind of platform using small weapons in the first place. Back to the drawing board!


• CAPACITORS: also fair points regarding capacitors, in some cases (Punisher especially) we initially wanted capacitor to be the drawback of these frigates, but it may be quite difficult for them to do their jobs while being affected by neuts. We'll iterate on that.


• TORMENTOR: the point of this ship is to give a more all rounded, comfortable hull to use for engagements than the Punisher, which explains the range and quite significantly increased fittings. This is still up for constructive discussion as well.


• ONLY 5 SHIPS?!: unfortunately for Inferno, yes. We initially wanted to revamp all frigates for this release, however problem is we are lacking Dev power at the moment (I am assigned to other projects as well, and Tallest is playing daddy with his twins ) so yep that is lame, but sadly we will have to cope with that for now.


• MINING SHIPS & TORMENTOR CHANGES: the plan is to completely change mining ships into more interesting hulls, and possibly add a basic mining role to Rookie ships and/or bit more advanced one for a special ORE frigate. Since we can't do much more than 5 frigates for Inferno, that means the other mining frigates will stay that way until we overhaul them, hopefully to be touched soon after Inferno.

Also, some players have expressed issues understanding where we are going without having a more accurate picture of the other frigates, allow us to give you a glimpse of things to come.

• COMBAT FRIGATES: have a balanced damage / resilience / speed ratio next to the other frigates. Includes the Tormentor, Punisher, Merlin, Incursus and Rifter.


• ATTACK FRIGATES: in general faster than the other frigates, with good damage, suited for interception or just damage dealing, but less resilient than combat frigates. Includes the Executioner (turret ship), Bantam (turret ship), Atron (turret ship), Navitas (dedicated drone ship), Slasher (turret ship) and Burst (TBD, possibly drone ship if role doesn't conflict with Navitas)


• BOMBARDMENT FRIGATES: classification is mainly cosmetic, not much different role wise than Combat / Attack frigates. Mainly use missiles, speed / EHP between Attack and Combat frigates and depending on their individual purpose. Is made of the Inquisitor, Condor, Kestrel, Tristan and Breacher. Supposedly being split up by two versions, those that are close range based with high damage (rockets) and the others being more of a medium range platforms (and thus light missile based).


• SUPPORT FRIGATES: split in two, first, the purely scanning frigates - Magnate, Heron, Imicus, Probe - and EW frigates - Crucifier, Griffin, Imicus, Probe. All need a boost, but their role should not be changed much.

Remember, theses classifications and frigate affiliations are still likely to change, and are mainly used to help us sort them out for now. These are just concept changes still, there will be other discussion threads for them specifically, so don't freak out

Maybe a name change to "bad Kestrel clone" too? There's already a perfectly good Caldari missile frigate, and although we don't know what CCP intends to do with it, I'm willing to bet it'll stay missile-focused.

However, the mobility of the proposed Merlin is terrible.The Caldari mobility theme is slow-but-agile. The current TQ Merlin adheres to this, but this proposed Merlin is the slowest and least agile. Stick to the racial theme.

Can you take and inclute what they are change from?




you are giveing it more dps(good), but you are nurfing the cap amount(why?)

Make the Incursus more like the Comet. This ship is a excellent example of what a Gallente Combat ship should be. Reduce down to two turrets and increase the damage bonus. This will free up a high slot for a utility high slot.

Great comments in here, let's address some of them.

• BOMBARDMENT FRIGATES: classification is mainly cosmetic, not much different role wise than Combat / Attack frigates. Mainly use missiles, speed / EHP between Attack and Combat frigates and depending on their individual purpose. Is made of the Inquisitor, Condor, Kestrel, Tristan and Breacher. Supposedly being split up by two versions, those that are close range based with high damage (rockets) and the others being more of a medium range platforms (and thus light missile based).

Remember, theses classifications and frigate affiliations are still likely to change, and are mainly used to help us sort them out for now. These are just concept changes still, there will be other discussion threads for them specifically, so don't freak out

Tormentor should fly drones. In fanfest it was said holes would be closed but Amarr has a major drone hole in t1 frigates. And a drone frigate would not need the cap bonus and range bonus to turrets. Amarr is the second drone race, so we should definitely close the t1 drone hole.

MERLIN:

New bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% to small hybrid turret range per level
Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, no launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG, 180 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 350 / 350
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 260 / 180 s / 1.44
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.7 / 997000 / 3.45 s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 580 / 5
Sensor strength: 11 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 39

Please no.

Im totally fine with making the merlin a 100% gun boat, but the best thing about the frigate is that 5% to shield resistances per level. Its why this ship is my favourite T1 frigate, its why I use it for 1v1s and its why im worried about the change.

Can we just have the 5% to damage and 5% to shield resistances?

Stuff

4) Each race get a "bombardement ship" with a bonus to medium (cruiser) sized weaponry. These are allready the basis of the stealth bombers and the redesign allows them to mount bigger weapons without looking funny. These will be to frigates what tier 3 battlecruisers is for that class, and will also be a natural stepping stone to the cruiser/BC classes. Inquisitor, Kestrel, Tristan, Breacher.

A role bonus such as 15% reduction in CPU AND 5% reduction in PG per level to Assault missile launchers would make them fun little frigs to fly without having to mess with them too much.

This should be used for a destroyer hull, not a frigate hull.

You understand that by shoehorning hulls into distinct special-purpose classes (some of which are useless) that you inevitably restrict their fitting choices?

In this topic we will focus on Combat frigate rebalancing, which affects:


* Tormentor: role changed from mining frigate to medium range combat vessel
* Punisher: improved role to fit close-medium range brawler
* Merlin: overhauled role to fit medium-long range turret platform
* Incursus: overhauld role to fit close range brawler
* Rifter: role untouched, it already is made of win and dipped with awesomesauce

This should be used for a destroyer hull, not a frigate hull.

This.
I was just about to suggest the Tristan goes over to a full missile frigate like the other three races get

Mixed weapon system is a minmatar thing and I really like that you are finally removing it from the others.
The weak capacitor on many ships can be a problem but also consider that they were talking about ammunition based repairers, maybe the Incursus will be perfect for these.