Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 .. 89 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
X201207
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.03.16 04:08:00 -
[1741]
I'm tired and I'm not going to take it anymore! Internet space ships
|
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
|
Posted - 2011.03.16 04:41:00 -
[1742]
Originally by: ArtieLange Did that AFK cloaking alliance ever kick off? I've got an alt I will never use for anything productive that's now in a cov-ops. I might be tempted to sit griefing people all day.
Nah. CCP made some changes to the netcode that means I can no longer play EvE at Australian prime time. So I cancelled the AFK cloaker thing till they fix it, which will be never apparently.
Hoping that somebody that can actually play will pick it up and do it though.
--------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU. |
ArtieLange
|
Posted - 2011.03.16 12:03:00 -
[1743]
Edited by: ArtieLange on 16/03/2011 12:03:42
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: ArtieLange Did that AFK cloaking alliance ever kick off? I've got an alt I will never use for anything productive that's now in a cov-ops. I might be tempted to sit griefing people all day.
Nah. CCP made some changes to the netcode that means I can no longer play EvE at Australian prime time. So I cancelled the AFK cloaker thing till they fix it, which will be never apparently.
Hoping that somebody that can actually play will pick it up and do it though.
Bah, well that's a bunch of ***** batter. I might still send a ship out to afk-grief afk people.
Edit - do you think they made these changes so that you couldn't interfere with the paying botters? O_o
|
Arnakoz
|
Posted - 2011.03.16 13:03:00 -
[1744]
Edited by: Arnakoz on 16/03/2011 13:04:58
Originally by: Consortium Agent
Let's not. Either you didn't read any of my posts in this forum or you didn't read the entire university page, but in either case let me address your question thusly: . . .
EDIT: There is only one sure fire way to know if the toon is a bot... gank them. If they continue to fly around in a pod, unencumbered by the lack of a ship (mining bots warping to belts in a pod, haulers continue on to the end point of the mission... and return, etc. etc.) - chances are pretty good it's a bot ;P lol
If they scream and holler and say WTF! in local - then pay them for their ship, thank them for their time and go gank another suspect ;P lol
you made my point exactly. and i read the entirety of the university page, and noted the part of
While not all of these behaviors are exhibited by all miner bot programs, careful observation of their behaviors over time will demonstrate which of these behaviors they regularly exhibit with enough regularity to form a pattern. It is the regularly timed pattern of behavior that generally gives away the fact that the character is indeed a miner bot.
my point still remains: even combining a large number of your criteria is about as likely to be a real player as it is to be a bot - take all the traits that i list as being a matter of "afk player" - it is most of your points - and an afk player IS going to exhibit those traits because afk is afk. so unless "plays 23/7" is checked the chances are of it being a bot are about as good as having flipped a coin. moreover i think it is misleading: players will read it and start to think that every miner/hauler/ratter they see is a bot, b/c it exhibits some or many of those traits. "plays 23/7" and "continues as if still in a ship" are the only two traits i would say make it more than likely a bot. the rest, even combo's of the rest, lacking one of those two, is mere guess work.
using you're own example:
To determine if you've got a miner bot on your hand is easy enough to do. Start by requesting a chat with the suspected bot character. While this is not always a smoking gun, as we ourselves may tend to ignore chat requests from folks we don't know or don't trust, but it's a good jumping off point. If they fail to respond on multiple occasions, then the probability of them being a mining bot goes up. If they fail to respond to your chat request, fly to within a couple thousand meters of their ship (2000m) - if they immediately stop mining and warp off, usually in the direction of another belt, then the chances of you looking at a bot are high. ... [plus other miners in corp.]
when i mined i did so afk - looking at my mains screen mostly, and only checking the alts screen every few minutes. I got tired of people convo'ing/emailing asking me if i wanted to join their corp (they may have been testing if i were a bot, now that i think about it) so i set both to autoreject. which was equally true for local... didn't care, didn't look. and if/when i happened to notice ships approaching me i warped the hell away! ... why else would they approach if not to kill me? further i had other corp mates that had hi-sec mining alts, who likely played just the same as me since they were afk as well. sometimes we mined in the same system, sometimes we didn't. but mining in a group was pointless; so we didn't. so you would have pegged me as a bot. and my corp mates. and i would imagine every other REAL miner out there.
all i'm saying is that giving a list of such broadly scoped items, with a high chance of overlap, is not a good idea if you really intend to fight bots; as it will merely flood CCP with more non-bots to check, and enrage those players who are now certain that it was a bot and it didn't get banned (they did verify it with reportbots.com afterall! so it MUST be!) ... So give better examples, like the one about hauling in a pod, that was good. maybe ask CCP to give you lists that they think are good!
|
riverini
Gallente Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2011.03.16 18:12:00 -
[1745]
I wonder if moving L4 to lowsec would help to curv the misison bot issue.. ?
same for better rat intel, nothing Sansha/Sleeper like, but something that throws some challenge...
|
Clea Vage
|
Posted - 2011.03.16 18:32:00 -
[1746]
Originally by: riverini I wonder if moving L4 to lowsec would help to curv the misison bot issue.. ?
same for better rat intel, nothing Sansha/Sleeper like, but something that throws some challenge...
1. That'd **** off a lot of players. 2. I'm 99% sure mission bots do L5 in low sec atm. Not sure how your proposal would affect anything, other than making LP worth more money since regular players might be reluctant to do them there.
|
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2011.03.16 19:53:00 -
[1747]
To the top. Here's hoping for some signifigant meat on the annoucement at FanFest ---
|
Consortium Agent
|
Posted - 2011.03.16 21:50:00 -
[1748]
Originally by: Arnakoz
all i'm saying is that giving a list of such broadly scoped items, with a high chance of overlap, is not a good idea if you really intend to fight bots; as it will merely flood CCP with more non-bots to check, and enrage those players who are now certain that it was a bot and it didn't get banned (they did verify it with reportbots.com afterall! so it MUST be!) ... So give better examples, like the one about hauling in a pod, that was good. maybe ask CCP to give you lists that they think are good!
CCP, like me, is not divulging all of the information we use to ascertain who is and who is not a bot. Furthermore, the terms and behaviors are broadly defined on purpose. Reportbots.com is merely a tool to assist users in finding and reporting bots to CCP and walks a fine line between indicating behaviors that are known dead give-away's and behaviors which are shared by players. Most of what the player gets to indicate is one thing, but what the system does on the back-end is another. Combined they isolate accuracy far better than you will ever know not having written the back-end. :)
If you lump all of your behaviors together and then watch those behaviors over time you'll see one overarching thing is different between human players and bots. Bots repeat the same steps over and over and over again very dutifully. They don't take breaks, they (typically) don't forget to turn on their lasers (as afk miners tend to do) and they repeat the same *exact* behaviors over and over and over. Humans have a certain chaos to them that a computer just can't match - human processes are random and chaotic, bot processes are serial (one after the other) or parallel (at the same time), and no amount of randomizing the behaviors can mimic a human player - there will always be a pattern that emerges, because random() in computer terms is never very random at all - and I don't think bot authors want to kill their bots coding chaos theory into them (in short there isn't enough computer power).
So, I do appreciate your concerns, and if you could tell me more about what you believe will make the university clearer to people like you who don't already have a perspective on the repetitive patterns of behavior exhibited by bots, I'll be more than happy to take your suggestions into consideration. ;)
|
Consortium Agent
|
Posted - 2011.03.16 21:54:00 -
[1749]
Originally by: riverini I wonder if moving L4 to lowsec would help to curv the misison bot issue.. ?
same for better rat intel, nothing Sansha/Sleeper like, but something that throws some challenge...
Nope. Hauler bots run the gauntlet (low and nullsec travel) all the time. Just check the killboards. Though it may dissuade some from going there - that still leaves plenty of L1 - L3's in high-sec, and they're still rewarding enough when you do them back to back to back 23/7, especially if you're running a fleet of bots like most of these guys tend to do. And, the loss of a hauler is a) not a big enough deterrent and b) not very costly if you're running a dead clone whose only purpose is to make you ISK while you're off doing something else ;)
|
Elzon1
Caldari Shadow Boys Corp White Angels.
|
Posted - 2011.03.17 00:02:00 -
[1750]
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde To the top. Here's hoping for some signifigant meat on the annoucement at FanFest
I just want to see that they have an automated program almost ready to go for scanning through server data to find botting patterns/activity. I'm not sure where but I heard they are enhancing the reporting section so people can report bots more easily. Most likely the enhanced reporting feature will mean it will work in conjunction with the automated program to quickly get rid of the more obvious bots.
Can't wait for the weekend, should be interesting. I don't know where, I don't know when... but something awful is going to happen xD |
|
Consortium Agent
|
Posted - 2011.03.17 00:36:00 -
[1751]
Originally by: Arnakoz i read the entirety of the university page, and noted the part of
While not all of these behaviors are exhibited by all miner bot programs, careful observation of their behaviors over time will demonstrate which of these behaviors they regularly exhibit with enough regularity to form a pattern. It is the regularly timed pattern of behavior that generally gives away the fact that the character is indeed a miner bot.
One more thought, and to help clarify for everyone else who reads this thread but doesn't go read the university page, it also states this (among many other things - spelling errors inclusive <g> lol):
All bots share some similar behaviors. They are online from the time the servers come online to the next time the go into maintenance. They fail to respond to multiple requests for chat. They typically stay in one solar system, with the exception of courier bots who generally stay within the same handful of constellations where missions take them. They generally come in multiples of bots, because why run just one, etc. It is the combination of behaviors and the exhibiting of repetitive patterns that gives these bots away. If you're here then I'm sure you've already seen lots of bots and are looking to help. Begin by observing the behaviors we note here, and those you might have read elsewhere in the forum threads and blogs on the internet, and with a little practice you'll notice that finding bots becomes second nature.
And, as an aside, the word 'pattern' in conjunction with the word 'behavior' and/or 'repetitive' shows up 18 times on the bot university page. I tried to make that point as crystal clear as possible (by being as repetitive about how repetitive the bots are as the bots themselves would probably be!). Bots are found through the repetitive patterns of behavior they exhibit. There, I've said it again ;)
|
Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
|
Posted - 2011.03.17 10:22:00 -
[1752]
If anyone thought RMTers or their clients would be lying low, no such luck.
NoahPegram (1-day alt) has bought 40bn worth of junk in the last few hours. Screenshot shows a list of his recent customers. If you know these people, let them know their isk's gonna disappear soon.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6387/rmtad.jpg
Petition is in. |
GinFizz
|
Posted - 2011.03.17 10:37:00 -
[1753]
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome If anyone thought RMTers or their clients would be lying low, no such luck.
NoahPegram (1-day alt) has bought 40bn worth of junk in the last few hours. Screenshot shows a list of his recent customers. If you know these people, let them know their isk's gonna disappear soon.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6387/rmtad.jpg
Petition is in.
Nice, they RMTers/botters are totally screwed now when they get hit with a written warning followed by a 1 day ban!
|
Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
|
Posted - 2011.03.17 10:46:00 -
[1754]
Edited by: Nadarius Chrome on 17/03/2011 10:46:44 What would you have me do? Hack their account? Trace their IP? Hunt them down and maim their family? This isn't a movie, there's jack sh** any player can do beyond this. That's why we need CCP to actually take some action instead of sanctioning it with their inactivity. |
Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2011.03.17 10:59:00 -
[1755]
When is *****Fest? I can't wait to hear all of the nothing they're going to do.
|
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
|
Posted - 2011.03.17 14:23:00 -
[1756]
Well, whatever nothing they're going to do, it's started today...
Quote: More information about this upgrade will be available in a dev blog next week and during Fanfest. Stay tuned!
Pieces in place I'm guessing...
|
Cyaxares II
|
Posted - 2011.03.17 14:27:00 -
[1757]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Well, whatever nothing they're going to do, it's started today...
Quote: More information about this upgrade will be available in a dev blog next week and during Fanfest. Stay tuned!
Pieces in place I'm guessing...
finally different items for BPOs and BPCs I am guessing.
|
Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2011.03.17 14:29:00 -
[1758]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Well, whatever nothing they're going to do, it's started today...
Quote: More information about this upgrade will be available in a dev blog next week and during Fanfest. Stay tuned!
Pieces in place I'm guessing...
Sweet, can't wait for some shiny stuff to distract us.
|
Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 00:52:00 -
[1759]
Originally by: riverini bull....
Dude all this thread was about was to drum up interest in EVE24 so when you write your botting guide (which shows just how much it matters to you that it gets fixed) you'll have max readers.
|
Elyssa MacLeod
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 00:54:00 -
[1760]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Can't be good for CCP's reputation.
as compared to what other game? EVERY MMO OUT THERE has bots. and in other games, NOONE gives two ****s about them
this is like saying "EVE has bots too"
*crickets*
|
|
Puppet Mas'ter
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 00:58:00 -
[1761]
Edited by: Puppet Mas''ter on 18/03/2011 01:01:24 Edited by: Puppet Mas''ter on 18/03/2011 01:00:09 Edited by: Puppet Mas''ter on 18/03/2011 00:58:52
Originally by: 000Hunter000
Originally by: Cyrus Doul ibtl
Hehe i had to post this beauty.. post number 2... Boy were u wrong!
but back on topic... personally i'd like to see the gtc for isk thing go away as well, way too easy to abuse your daddies platinum card and get a leg up in eve...
That had to keep it open to lock every other thread about this. If you fight someone and dont give them a way out, they fight that much harder. This way, they can sweep it under the rug
Originally by: CCP Sreegs because I like bots
fixt
lol someone should dress as a robot and be plastered with actual botting and RMT ads
whens fanfest?
|
|
CCP Sreegs
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 01:32:00 -
[1762]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: ArtieLange Did that AFK cloaking alliance ever kick off? I've got an alt I will never use for anything productive that's now in a cov-ops. I might be tempted to sit griefing people all day.
Nah. CCP made some changes to the netcode that means I can no longer play EvE at Australian prime time. So I cancelled the AFK cloaker thing till they fix it, which will be never apparently.
Hoping that somebody that can actually play will pick it up and do it though.
I'm very curious about what you're referring to here. If your ISP is filtering you it's the fault of bad signatures on the ISPs side. We can't stop developing EVE on the off chance IDS vendors will mislabel us as something we aren't. I'm happy to work with the ISP to try to get the vendor to update whatever product it is they're running, but in the absence of information about said product there's not a whole lot we can do. |
|
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 06:05:00 -
[1763]
Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: ArtieLange Did that AFK cloaking alliance ever kick off? I've got an alt I will never use for anything productive that's now in a cov-ops. I might be tempted to sit griefing people all day.
Nah. CCP made some changes to the netcode that means I can no longer play EvE at Australian prime time. So I cancelled the AFK cloaker thing till they fix it, which will be never apparently.
Hoping that somebody that can actually play will pick it up and do it though.
I'm very curious about what you're referring to here. If your ISP is filtering you it's the fault of bad signatures on the ISPs side. We can't stop developing EVE on the off chance IDS vendors will mislabel us as something we aren't. I'm happy to work with the ISP to try to get the vendor to update whatever product it is they're running, but in the absence of information about said product there's not a whole lot we can do.
Either Optus Internet or Tata communications is flagging EvE data as p2p. Been happening for the last 4 months. This is in my opinion the direct result of the bitcode change and not because Optus or Tata is flagging traffic since they have been packet shaping for years with the old code and the issue never presented until CCP made its recent changes.
While we can point fingers and pass blame on whose fault it is, the end result is CCP have millions of potential customers who are unable to log into EvE at their prime time because of it.
Im a little surprised you don't know about this since I've made numerous threads and complaints on the issues forum and there have been multiple threads running consistently since the problem appeared.
Unfortunately its not a simple matter to change providers in Australia since were locked into contracts that are quite expensive to get out of.
--------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU. |
Sullen Skoung
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 06:22:00 -
[1764]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Im a little surprised you don't know about this since I've made numerous threads and complaints
really? surprised? like the numerous thread, complaints, reports, flags, etc etc etc etc etc etc
about the FIFTY NINE PAGE THREAD topic
and just soooooo much gets done
|
Shandir
Minmatar EVE University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 13:08:00 -
[1765]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Either Optus Internet or Tata communications is flagging EvE data as p2p. Been happening for the last 4 months. This is in my opinion the direct result of the bitcode change and not because Optus or Tata is flagging traffic since they have been packet shaping for years with the old code and the issue never presented until CCP made its recent changes.
Your ISP is probably flagging non-torrent traffic as torrent traffic. This is a bug at the ISPs filtering system. They are at fault. CCP can help, but if you want to resolve the problem with your ISPs filtering and software, you need to talk to your ISP and get them to do something about it. And if they're refusing to fix it, this might be a good way to get out of your contract - their equipment is faulty.
This is like blaming your car manufacturer for roadworks. CCP makes the traffic and expects the internet to work as it's intended to. If something stops the internet from working properly, you can't expect them to agree it's their fault. - Vote Trebor Daehdoow for CSM and Chairman of CSM. Trebor's Campaign Manifesto |
James Tiberius Kirk
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 13:18:00 -
[1766]
Originally by: Shandir
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Either Optus Internet or Tata communications is flagging EvE data as p2p. Been happening for the last 4 months. This is in my opinion the direct result of the bitcode change and not because Optus or Tata is flagging traffic since they have been packet shaping for years with the old code and the issue never presented until CCP made its recent changes.
Your ISP is probably flagging non-torrent traffic as torrent traffic. This is a bug at the ISPs filtering system. They are at fault. CCP can help, but if you want to resolve the problem with your ISPs filtering and software, you need to talk to your ISP and get them to do something about it. And if they're refusing to fix it, this might be a good way to get out of your contract - their equipment is faulty.
This is like blaming your car manufacturer for roadworks. CCP makes the traffic and expects the internet to work as it's intended to. If something stops the internet from working properly, you can't expect them to agree it's their fault.
Unless the ISP has customers service at the superhuman level, I doubt they'll change their anti-P2P policy just because some nerd couldn't play his video game.
Ultimately, it is faster if CCP contacts the ISP, as it is their SERVICE.
|
wr3cks
Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 13:44:00 -
[1767]
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome If anyone thought RMTers or their clients would be lying low, no such luck.
NoahPegram (1-day alt) has bought 40bn worth of junk in the last few hours. Screenshot shows a list of his recent customers. If you know these people, let them know their isk's gonna disappear soon.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6387/rmtad.jpg
Petition is in.
How did you find this, by the way?
|
Durnin Stormbrow
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 17:49:00 -
[1768]
Originally by: CCP Loxy Official Fanfest's schedule *Schedule is subject to changes.
Friday 25th All times are GMT (EVE Time) 18:00 Security
Not to add pressure on top of pressure for CCP Sreegs, but I'm thinking there's gonna be a load of eyes on this one.
|
Othran
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 18:55:00 -
[1769]
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow Not to add pressure on top of pressure for CCP Sreegs, but I'm thinking there's gonna be a load of eyes on this one.
Aye. Fair amount of expectation/hope pinned on that presentation.
|
riverini
Gallente Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 20:51:00 -
[1770]
Originally by: Chesty McJubblies When is *****Fest? I can't wait to hear all of the nothing they're going to do.
We got some stuff saved just in case... basically 2 follow up articles, and other giggling stuff.
R
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 .. 89 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |