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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Dalketh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2011.10.18 17:57:00 -
[391] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough. If they indeed don't allow you, I would bet there will be wormholes that operate free for all COs for profit. At least that's what we hope.
OK I am smelling doom, no offense but you saying things like the above prove you DO NOT play this game or really understand many things vital to making this change work in any way. So much for the 'new improved CCP'... |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2011.10.18 17:57:00 -
[392] - Quote
gargars wrote:CCP Omen wrote:Rhavas wrote:Love the player-driven approach even if it is going to kill my income stream. Oh well, improvise, adapt, overcome.
Questions: 1) Looks like we can now launch and avoid customs (subject to ugly volume restrictions) - please confirm. 2) Courier contracts at customs offices? This is the feature really needed/lacking from PI production. Coming? 3) When does this go live? 4) Are you sending Vaseline to POS owners? They'll need it when we producers factor this in to fuel pricing... 1) confirmed 2) Not planned, good idea though 3) I'm not sure if I am at liberty to tell, but it's ready to go4) If it turns out to be too much of an upset, we will take action. OK I am still digesting this (and not liking what I hear so far in many ways) but want to ask why is it that this is 'ready to go' when as far as I know we never heard a word about this? Another implementation without player feedback IN ADVANCE.... really? Why even pretend to care about our opinions when the coding is obviously DONE? ('Ready to go').
We are ready to go when we have sifted through your feedback and made any necessary changes. For once we are not pressed for time, this is a good thing. The CSM were notified 2011.08.19 11:22:00, the design was shown to them and we made several tweaks as a result. If you want to see things UBER early the CSM is the place to be!
Regards Omen
I have asked our lovely community reps , and I can say this much about the release of this feature: between US Thanksgiving and Christmas
Game Designer Team Pi |
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David Carel
33
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Posted - 2011.10.18 17:59:00 -
[393] - Quote
Kaminu wrote:A good extension would be to set different taxes for different standings. i.E.
Corp = 0% Alliance = 2% +10 = 5% +5 = 10% 0 = no access -5 = no access -10 = no access
Why not selling the service to anyone that is willing to pay for it? If a player CO is placed in low sec why should the owner not earn more from player he dont know as from his friends?
Thank you very much for copying my post. |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
102
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:00:00 -
[394] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:This is a great idea. The structure doesn't have too much EHP compared to all of the sov structures, making it a good target for bored small gangs. It also allows corporations and alliances to take "ownership" of planets. I am also glad that a risk free income source has been removed from null and lowsec. I also appreciate the bandwidth buff because many planets have their resources spread out all over, and it makes it easier to farm resources far away from eachother. A couple of questions: In reinforced mode, will importing and exporting to and from the customs office be disabled? If you destroy the customs office, will you be able to take whatever's inside for your own uses? To all the haters out there, you can still do PI in highsec if you feel that low/null is too dangerous for you.
has nothing to do with its location, this is a dumb ass change to a terribal 'profession', that will just make it more terrible and drive up pos fuel/parts/towers t2 items.
pi itself need a massive make over, not the ******* collection points.. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:01:00 -
[395] - Quote
On a side note: I was gonna reactivate my PI account and take it into low sec. Now I think I'm just gonna wait and see how this works out b4 reactivating it. Might not be worth it. |
Handsome Hussein
46
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:01:00 -
[396] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:To all the haters out there, you can still do PI in highsec if you feel that low/null is too dangerous for you. Nice deflection there.
The hating isn't about danger but rather that PI will be coalesced to larger and larger groups like so many other things in EVE (sov, for instance).
It's a dead-end for the casual player now. Our best option is to stop selling our products, create a stockpile, and wait for the inevitable market price explosion. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
169
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:02:00 -
[397] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Again... THIS IS A COMPLETELY WORTHLESS CHANGE IN WORMHOLES!
1. Only the people that live there do the PI there. We won't be charging our own corp/alliance taxes for the fuel they're making to help keep the pos running.
2. Holes last a maximum of 24 hrs. If someone comes in and puts one reinforced, the hole will close before they can pop it. Even if they pop it, they gain nothing. So, it's either wasted time and aggravation to put one reinforced and never get to finish the job, or it's an added pain in the ass for someone moving into a new hole to have to clean these pieces of crap out in order to set up their own.
The whole concept completely fails in wormholes. Please consider leaving wormhole space out of this. It only works in areas of high traffic where you can have people that are in direct competition with each other trying to do PI on a particular planet. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN in wormholes!
C'mon CCP... THINK on this!
CCP Omen - I may not be on the CSM, but could you take a moment to consider this? It really makes no sense to include wormholes in this change at all. I'm not going to tax myself or my corp, so there's no one to tax there. I have up to ten planets being worked, so I need to halt fuel production and come up with ten of these things that we won't use anyhow?
This is a really really bad change with regards to J-space. Please take a moment to consider that. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Holy One
SniggWaffe
45
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:03:00 -
[398] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:EI Digin wrote:This is a great idea. The structure doesn't have too much EHP compared to all of the sov structures, making it a good target for bored small gangs. It also allows corporations and alliances to take "ownership" of planets. I am also glad that a risk free income source has been removed from null and lowsec. I also appreciate the bandwidth buff because many planets have their resources spread out all over, and it makes it easier to farm resources far away from eachother. A couple of questions: In reinforced mode, will importing and exporting to and from the customs office be disabled? If you destroy the customs office, will you be able to take whatever's inside for your own uses? To all the haters out there, you can still do PI in highsec if you feel that low/null is too dangerous for you. has nothing to do with its location, this is a dumb ass change to a terribal 'profession', that will just make it more terrible and drive up pos fuel/parts/towers t2 items. pi itself need a massive make over, not the ******* collection points..
Bro its CCP. Everything they do revolves around a large collidable object and blobs. Always has ..
And yeah, someone else will have to manufacture the 1.5m t2 missiles I *was* doing every week from PI. And buy the plexes I was buying with the proceeds.
That someone will probably be in Test or Goons.
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Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:04:00 -
[399] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:[quote=gargars][quote=CCP Omen][quote=Rhavas]
We are ready to go when we have sifted through your feedback and made any necessary changes. For once we are not pressed for time, this is a good thing. The CSM were notified 2011.08.19 11:22:00, the design was shown to them and we made several tweaks as a result. If you want to see things UBER early the CSM is the place to be!
Regards Omen
I have asked our lovely community reps , and I can say this much about the release of this feature: between US Thanksgiving and Christmas
The CSM APPROVED of this?!?! :D |
JamesCLK
Lone Star Exploration Narwhals Ate My Duck
17
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:05:00 -
[400] - Quote
Carbon Compounds are forever~
CCP + CSM love is on a roll <3 |
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Kelsi Darr
Orbital Express LTD Ocularis Inferno
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:05:00 -
[401] - Quote
Hm.
I let PI sit fallow for ages after the extractor change. Good change, but I couldn't be arsed to deal with the tedium of changing everything. I'd recently gotten back into PI on a high sec alt of mine, and since I've been running around low sec with several characters of late I was considering setting up some low sec PI operations.
I'm glad that I got this warning in time to put an end to that silliness. ^_^ |
Basil Wencislas
The Skunkwerks E C L I P S E
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:07:00 -
[402] - Quote
I tried finding any info on the subject but haven't seen anything. I am curious how launchpads will work with this new system. For example, if a planet does not yet have a custom's office, as I expect many will when this goes live, will the launch pads be able to send/receive just like a command center without using the customs office?
Furthermore, if making changes to a PI system, the Storage facility needs an improvement to be useful, as of right now its relatively pointless considering it has half the storage capacity of a launchpad and relatively the same load requirements. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
93
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:08:00 -
[403] - Quote
If you launch items from a container at the command center (not using customs office) can you evade the taxes?
How does that work? NOSTRO AURUM NON EST AURUM VULGI |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
114
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:09:00 -
[404] - Quote
ok i calmed down a bit but tell us why ccp i read the blog 3 times now
I can understand you allow this in nullsec where nullsec allances a can control who acces their planets and get some profit out of it ; tho like a previous poster wrote ' if you can't control acces to your systems you don't deserve sov
But why low sec aswell , it is empire controlled right , sure there is no concord but it is empire controlled Alot of us already taking a risk , granted a low risk doing pi in low sec so why make it harder and more cumbersome for us
honestly i don't see any pro in this except if you are a large nullsec alliance I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
SokoleOko
Death Wish. Ineluctable.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:09:00 -
[405] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Dr Mercy wrote:Any comments on HP levels? =HP scpecification= * Customs Office Gantry ** Shield: 10,000,000 ** Armor: 500,000 ** Structure: 300,000 * Customs Office ** Shield: 10,000,000 ** Armor: 2,500,000 ** Structure: 2,000,000 Regards Omen
Perfect, yet another thing you can shoot/destroy only with capitals, because otherwise there are better things to do in evenings. So - an incentive to bring/use BLOBS.
And I was stupid enough to think that something so unimportant as PI could be a viable target for roaming gangs to harass local residents.
Instead of putting another iHub/POS-like structure with RF timers (and lol-killmails), make it so that a 20 man gang can "incapacitate" it in 15 minutes for like 6/12 hours. Then it will start working again without being repped and no, you can't destroy it. This way local residents can choose - fight or wait. |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
114
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:11:00 -
[406] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:If you launch items from a container at the command center (not using customs office) can you evade the taxes?
How does that work? your journal under the tab planetary launches you can launch a limited amount of your pi into orbit with your command center I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions The Laughing Men
6
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:11:00 -
[407] - Quote
Basil Wencislas wrote:I tried finding any info on the subject but haven't seen anything. I am curious how launchpads will work with this new system. For example, if a planet does not yet have a custom's office, as I expect many will when this goes live, will the launch pads be able to send/receive just like a command center without using the customs office?
Furthermore, if making changes to a PI system, the Storage facility needs an improvement to be useful, as of right now its relatively pointless considering it has half the storage capacity of a launchpad and relatively the same load requirements.
This ^
I'd like more details on the PG and CPU consumption changes involved - if any. There are changes to make this feature viable, right?
There's a lot of information in this thread that should be mirrored back to the original blog post. |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Intrepid Crossing
7
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:13:00 -
[408] - Quote
I see some problems with this idea and some good ideas.
I would first suggest a phase in period. Allow the NPC custom office to remain until a player corp anchors one around the same planet. At that point the NPC office is removed. This helps avoid any major disruption in the markets as the transition occurs. (Note if the player one is destroyed the NPC one does not magically reappear). If you remove all the NPC ones and then disallow anyone from doing PI without a customs office in orbit you will kill the expansion as it will take some time to build that many customs office, have you checked the database to see how many planets are actually producing PI (of course removing the high sec planets).
Another way to prevent disruption in 0.0 would be to transfer simply the NPC custom offices to player ones under the control of the executive of the alliance controlling sovereignty. In systems not controlled they would disappear.
There is no way you will stop the blob. These are far to expensive to have fewer hp than suggested. A 100 man Maelstrom or Abaddon fleet will cut them down pretty quick and could do a constellation in a few hours. I know some small guys are going but we aren't going to field that many, there are to many entities that will that you have to account for it. Even if you halved the hp they'd still bring 100. (Its faster). (Oh and fast sieging dreads will kill it much faster...hint hint....)
I like the idea that others have put forth that of being able to set different tax rates for different groups based on standings.
If the customs office is owned by the controlling alliance perhaps there should be some advantage to it, a boost to hp or similar. There should be some advantage to the sovereign alliance, but that doesn't necessarily have to be that it has to be only they can put down. A HP bonus might be another nice alternative bonus. Making them stronger in your space and weaker in others.
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G Taa
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:13:00 -
[409] - Quote
ok, so as far as I can tell the only people liking this are the ADD crowd that just like to blow things up and annoy people?
And if I get it right basically it boil down to blocking PI on a first come first served basis, extorting the tax rate to make it unprofitable and blow up and put nusciance claims on other peoples systems?
There is not one thing I like about this idea.
I look forward to another long winded apology in the near future after a swath of people getting pissed off and leaving. Again. |
VaMei
Meafi Corp
37
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:13:00 -
[410] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:I have asked our lovely community reps , and I can say this much about the release of this feature: between US Thanksgiving and Christmas
With the BPC only comming from the FW & Concord LP stores, we're going to need some serious time to get the supply chain filled with enough units to meet the early demand.
IMO, if you are planning to offline the NPC COs by Christmas, we need those LP stores chugging out BPCs NOW. Even if it's only a placeholder item that we can build from later, we need to get this moving.
Only 67 shopping days till Christmas!! |
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Neechi HollanderDanny
Sith Squirrels
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:16:00 -
[411] - Quote
Question:
What will happen to PI-Items inside the current Custom Office's after the patch? Will it be destroyed or will it be moved to an Outpost? |
Holy One
SniggWaffe
45
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:16:00 -
[412] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:dbrummer wrote:I'm not sure I fully understand the mechanics of the Player Owned Customs Office. I'm part of a corp that lives out of NPC 0.0 space, how would this affect us? Are all of our existing PI installations going to be destroyed when this feature is enabled? If not, how do we get our goo off if there's no POCO anchored? I feel like we need more details on this change so we can fully understand the changes.
I'm like a few other people here and am very limited in my playing time but enjoy the passive income PI generates. If this change requires more time or makes it more difficult to make isk from PI then why use it? I'm just worried that the PI income I use to buy PvP ships will disappear. Our ambition is that some entrepreneur will operate a COs in your system and thereby maintaining the service you currently enjoy. With some luck, the taxes will be lowered, with some bad luck they will be higher, but given that the market prices are likely to rise, you are probably going to make a good buck regardless. The main danger in your scenario is that you won't have access to the customs office, either if you are not meeting the standing requirements of the owner or if there simply is no CO there. Regards Omen
Did it occur to you that the big alliances will just use alt corps to buy up all the CO's and shut them down, so they can control the price of everything from missiles to nanite paste and dictate the supply and demand based on their completely unassailable assets in null? As per usual? I'm just blown away by how ******** this idea is bro. Seriously. Did you learn nothing from technetium? |
Esker Sheep
Havoc Violence and Chaos BricK sQuAD.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:17:00 -
[413] - Quote
pussnheels wrote: But why low sec aswell , it is empire controlled right , sure there is no concord but it is empire controlled Alot of us already taking a risk , granted a low risk doing pi in low sec so why make it harder and more cumbersome for us
honestly i don't see any pro in this except if you are a large nullsec alliance
You can moon mine in low sec right? Why not operate customs offices. Stations in low sec systems are run by different corps. Why can't the customs offices. There is logic behind this.
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Jake Centauri
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:17:00 -
[414] - Quote
Neechi HollanderDanny wrote:Question:
What will happen to PI-Items inside the current Custom Office's after the patch? Will it be destroyed or will it be moved to an Outpost?
I believe the dev said that the CO hangar contents will be magically transported to a nearby station or outpost, presumably a neutral one. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:18:00 -
[415] - Quote
ANYTHING THAT PULLS FIGHTS AWAY FROM STATIONS AND STAR GATES IS A GOOD THING...
Qwick question... can i please use my hacking skills to fool the customs office into thinking i have goodstandings?
there could be an altert sent out like "pos under attack" if the office detects me trying to hack it... |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
50
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:18:00 -
[416] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:You know... this is actually a pretty worthless change when it comes to wormholes. It makes no sense at all. Usually a single corp / alliance lives in a hole, and no one comes in from other systems to do PI. It's completely not feasible. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to change the way things work right now in wormholes. It really should be left as is in there.
I think it makes sense considering that w-space has no existing infrastructure and it's your responsibility to provide it, instead of just receiving a free orbital structure to help you harvest from the planets.
Rees Noturana // Professional Treasure Hunter |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
573
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:21:00 -
[417] - Quote
Interesting. This will surely turn into something making ammo producers happy
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Candente
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
4
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:21:00 -
[418] - Quote
Firstly, I donGÇÖt understand the devGÇÖs approach of GÇ£letGÇÖs try this first and if it doesnGÇÖt work weGÇÖll change it.GÇ¥ EveGÇÖs market is a delicate beast, and for many well-thought comments on this thread, it is more than evident that for people who actually play and use PI feature within the context of the gameGÇÖs environment and politics, most of the changes will introduce more problems.
I think we universally agree that this change hurts ninja-PI. As said, lowsec planets will either have CO owned by large alliances who can field blob warfare, or not enough CO since anyone erects one will be taken down by the blob. I donGÇÖt do ninja-PI myself but I seriously do not see the reason for this part of the gameplay to be effectively removed by the hard reality of the gameGÇÖs social structure.
Another important question isGǪ why not allow upgradable defense on CO? The current HP spec looks like there will be only two groups attacking the offices: blobs and stealthbomber greifers. Blobing structure in Eve is uninteresting; I think we have a consensus. It may make sense in a weird way in 0.0 but it simply is not interesting for wspace fights. It will either be an invasion, where the attacker side is committed to stay in system despite the ever-changing static exits, or steathbombers who has nothing better to do other than generating spam mails to some directors.
Making CO upgradable is a natural choice of course, IMO. No, PI haulers donGÇÖt need to become immune to ganks at the offices, since the office can simply be locked to only shoot back when itself is being attacked. CO should function more like PoS, allow players to place modular defense (in exchange, consume fuel, and need to choose between more defense or more industrial functions), and should have HP and reinforce timer adjusted to what kind of system it is in (nullsec, wspace, lowsec should have different rules). In essence, the CO should have its sturdiness sensible to its surrounding environment.
Anyway, the GÇ£planGÇ¥ from the devblog sounds like a poorly drafted idea that ignores reality of the game and will create too many problems. IGÇÖd say the dev needs time to think this through and make this change more sensible to more people who actually do PI.
PS: I just saw there seems to be a deadline to rush for... and no, I don't think implement this half-baked idea between thanksgiving and christmas will benefit the players. It will be the crappy Tyrannis PI all again. |
Aynen
SI Radio Split Infinity.
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:21:00 -
[419] - Quote
Rees Noturana wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:You know... this is actually a pretty worthless change when it comes to wormholes. It makes no sense at all. Usually a single corp / alliance lives in a hole, and no one comes in from other systems to do PI. It's completely not feasible. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to change the way things work right now in wormholes. It really should be left as is in there. I think it makes sense considering that w-space has no existing infrastructure and it's your responsibility to provide it, instead of just receiving a free orbital structure to help you harvest from the planets.
There's an important difference between something making sense from a background story point of view and something making sense from a gamplay point of view. In other words, it being logical storywise doesn't always make it fun to play. |
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:21:00 -
[420] - Quote
Well just the other day I was clicking clicking clicking while setting up new planets and wondering what was wrong with me. I kept thinking that any of my real life friends would think I was crazy to spend so much time doing something that wasn't fun in any way shape or form. And now I find that there will be absolutely no profit in any of that work and I will lose my low sec planets as well.
Thanks for giving me some good motivation for canceling my three accounts CCP! |
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