Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 32 post(s) |
|
CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
4281
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Industry related part of the User Interface in EVE Online will receive a major overhaul and serious improvements!
We are excited to present this third industry related blog in a series which presents the amazing new industry related user interface and the reasons and research behind these changes.
Read all about improvements to the industry user interface in CCP Arrow's dev blog Industry UI.
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Representative - Volunteer Manager |
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2314
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
First, can't wait to read.
Edit: Really liking what I am seeing, can't wait to get to use it. -á --á |
|
CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
4281
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:First, can't wait to read. You won't be disappointed!
Expect further industry related blogs later this week with even more exciting news. CCP Phantom - Senior Community Representative - Volunteer Manager |
|
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1127
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Awwwwww I still remember the previous screenshot teaser!
brb reading. Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
|
Cea Barr
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
I wanted to be the first :( |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3068
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Now THAT is a dev blog! :D CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
|
|
Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions Free 2 Play
223
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
ok, so now it is shiny and better looking and all, but uhm, it still seems to lack (or i did misread the post) one feature that i know me (and others) have been asking for in the past.
What about bulk-creating-jobs?
when i have 10 Scorch M BPC, then doing the same clicking (well i guess dragging now) etc 10 times is *extremly* annoying, so can we please have an option to clone jobs? can this dragging, clicking thing please be a template, and we can create 10 jobs without doing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?
regards, PP 3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7067
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Looks like this one is a little light on fundamental gameplay changes. The UI looks nice, but really got to actually try it out for a little while before I can say much about how much of an improvement it is. I'm sure there will be an adjustment period but at a minimum this looks way better than the old one, so hopefully it's also easier to use as well.
I am interested in what these are:
"get 'workers' availability information" and "see delegation/outsourcing options"
from here: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/SnI_TaskModel_01.png
Guessing the first is something to do with teams, but what's the second? Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Oxide Ammar
101
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Touchpoint Matrix is completely filled with misinformation, I don't know ... did you pull this out from the survey you did before ? |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7068
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Peter Powers wrote:ok, so now it is shiny and better looking and all, but uhm, it still seems to lack (or i did misread the post) one feature that i know me (and others) have been asking for in the past.
What about bulk-creating-jobs?
when i have 10 Scorch M BPC, then doing the same clicking (well i guess dragging now) etc 10 times is *extremly* annoying, so can we please have an option to clone jobs? can this dragging, clicking thing please be a template, and we can create 10 jobs without doing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?
regards, PP I agree with this, I don't think I saw anything like this in here. I also want something similar for capital components (where I'm often trying to build X components, using Y blueprints instead of X components on a single blueprint) - is there any of this sort of functionality or any additional stuff like that, or is this UI mostly a reskin of the old UI made to be more inviting and intuitive, but without really anything changing 'under the hood' about what you can/can't do? Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
|
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
1023
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Reading now Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1016
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
oh hello Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á The Best Quote EVER Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3131
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm liking the look of this. Except for one major NPE point.
ME.
Now, at one time, this wasn't so bad. Sure, PE could mean the skill, or the time efficiency, but at least it wasn't the same acronym, for the same kind of thing.
Now you have ME (blueprint waste) and ME (player skill waste). Which is just insane. How about renaming the skill back to Production Efficiency, as that no longer conflicts with the commonly used acronym for Productivity level? Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
ChromeStriker
Chrome Exploration
718
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
A mighty mighty dev blog!
This image: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/Blueprints_ShowInfo_Description.png
Could you show what each type of blueprint reasearch will actually do? E.g. Meterial research -2% matereal needed (or whatever) 8hr 4min 2sec....
Was always a bit lost on that bit lol
Nulla Curas |
|
CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
4282
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Looks like this one is a little light on fundamental gameplay changes. Due to the enormous amount of improvements and changes we are preparing, we release a series of blogs instead of one massive crazy huge blogs.
More information will be published in the next blogs before Fanfest.
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Representative - Volunteer Manager |
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1290
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cool. The Tears Must Flow |
|
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
302
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Peter Powers wrote:ok, so now it is shiny and better looking and all, but uhm, it still seems to lack (or i did misread the post) one feature that i know me (and others) have been asking for in the past.
What about bulk-creating-jobs?
when i have 10 Scorch M BPC, then doing the same clicking (well i guess dragging now) etc 10 times is *extremly* annoying, so can we please have an option to clone jobs? can this dragging, clicking thing please be a template, and we can create 10 jobs without doing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?
regards, PP
The idea is that the system will remember all settings for a blueprint, so if you set up 1 Scorch M BPC, all subsequent blueprints of this type will default to the last submitted job settings.
So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go.
Feel free to poke me on: Twitter |
|
Theodore Knox
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Looks like a vastly improved UI. But need to digest this. Are these changes going on Sisi before too long? |
Galphii
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
223
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Phew, that was a lot of text - just what I've been waiting for
I very much like the new visual appearance of the entire process. The more it moves away from the old spreadsheet look, the better. It must have taken a huge design effort to translate so much industry information down to an easy to see and operate interface. The UI team deserves a pat on the back (and a few beers) for pulling this off. Well done and I can't wait to give it a whirl X |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3131
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Who gets the notification about completed corporate jobs?
Is it possible to disable this notification? (As an inventor, I can go through 100+ jobs a day without too much trouble. And most of those are in a POS (copy slots needed. Might as well use the others too)) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
|
Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions Free 2 Play
224
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Peter Powers wrote:ok, so now it is shiny and better looking and all, but uhm, it still seems to lack (or i did misread the post) one feature that i know me (and others) have been asking for in the past.
What about bulk-creating-jobs?
when i have 10 Scorch M BPC, then doing the same clicking (well i guess dragging now) etc 10 times is *extremly* annoying, so can we please have an option to clone jobs? can this dragging, clicking thing please be a template, and we can create 10 jobs without doing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?
regards, PP The idea is that the system will remember all settings for a blueprint, so if you set up 1 Scorch M BPC, all subsequent blueprints of this type will default to the last submitted job settings. So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go. THANK YOU 3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7068
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Weaselior wrote:Looks like this one is a little light on fundamental gameplay changes. Due to the enormous amount of improvements and changes we are preparing, we release a series of blogs instead of one massive crazy huge blog. More information will be published in the next blogs before Fanfest. I'm not complaining, just trying to make sure I didn't miss anything! The other changes are pretty massive and so I just wanted to make sure nothing was in here I missed like being able to batch jobs or queue up jobs for after your current ones finish. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Berluth Luthian
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
186
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
If I remember correctly, one thing that you seemed to sort of plug going into the re-design is the attention to the 'high click-labor' nature of the previous industrial UI. There wasn't too much on that here. Could anyone go into detail about the attention paid to this side of the design process and what we might be able to expect?
It sort of looks like we won't have to click very many 'info windows' deep to find necessary information. That will be nice. |
|
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
302
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Theodore Knox wrote:Looks like a vastly improved UI. But need to digest this. Are these changes going on Sisi before too long?
The plan is to have this on Singularity in the week following Fanfest.
So very soon. Feel free to poke me on: Twitter |
|
MuraSaki Siki
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
47
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Who gets the notification about completed corporate jobs?
Is it possible to disable this notification? (As an inventor, I can go through 100+ jobs a day without too much trouble. And most of those are in a POS (copy slots needed. Might as well use the others too))
i believe it would be able to turn on/off in mail setting window, just like other notifications |
Ruby Faith
Chrome Exploration
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Guessing this is shown in the new AI when you do research?.... |
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
23
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Expect further industry related blogs later this week with even more exciting news.
im hoping it'll give us a idea of what we'll be looking at isk wise when paying for these jobs in stations with or without a lot of activity |
Midori Tsu
Evolution Northern Coalition.
128
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
I feel like it will be harder to get the numbers for the missing materials if you have them. currently in the quote window it shows the number of required items and if you have them missing. It's easy to see how many is missing so if you need to get more, you can see what the exact name of the item is and how many is missing. Comparing the current to the new, i feel like this will be a step back in trying.
I also feel like some info being given in the window is too vague, like the cost bar, that should be a number instead. |
Kename Fin
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Finally!
And yet rather unfulfilling after reading... |
|
CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
508
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
To elaborate a bit on the core thoughts around the UX of this window, all interactions will be very to the point and within this one window, there are no extra windows or confirmation steps. You visualize, modify, start and deliver jobs all within this same window.
Also everything will have tooltips if you need additional clarification or information about any element in the UI. CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Game Design Director -á|-á-áEVE Online -á|-á-á@CCP_Arrow |
|
|
Tam Althor
lll tempered sea bass Brothers of Tangra
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
The new UI will be nice to play with, however, it really means nothing for current people involved in industry compared to the content of the blogs that are supposed to follow this week. Can we get an actual timeline on those? |
scruff decima
Large Collidable Object.
20
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Looks awesome. I'll definitely be resubbing my industry accounts for these changes.
The blog is a little light on details on invention. How will selecting decryptors and T1 items for an invention job work? Will it remember previous choices? I assume the 'Quality Meter' shows the invention chance percent, is the ME/PE level of the invented BPC also shown somewhere? I assume one can select the output you want (ie enyo or ishkur) by clicking the icons, will those choices be remembered?
Looks cool, can't wait to try it on SISI. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7069
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
I did miss a fundamental gameplay change buried in there:
Quote: That being said, research ME/TE will however show time for next level rather than an absolute time, which will then change depending on current research. We want base values when possible, but if we need to display it differently we will message it clearly in the UI. It also has the capability to be GÇ£finishedGÇ¥ for fully researched blueprints.
Guessing there's more details coming next blog, but that means:
1) Research will (almost certainly) become more difficult the higher you try to get the ME/TE (it would make little sense for it to get easier from a game design standpoint)
2) "Perfect" blueprints will become an actual thing that is known and reflected in-game instead of outside calculators. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Curatores Veritatis Alliance
150
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Nice stuff. However a few useful comments:
Showinfo window: 1) attributes tab: Please ensure there's a showinfo link for the item produced. 2) Attributes tab, "Research TE" what's that? If that's invention time, please name it so. 3) Attributes tab: Copying: is that per maxrun BPC or perl single run? Please state that somewhere on the window. 4) Industry tab: For material quantities please include some notations for the dimension, like 1000000000 trit should be like "100 000 000" or something alike. Make sure these extra characters go away when copying it (to be pasted into a sheet or something). Please keep the data easy to read.
Regarding indistry window size: Please make sure it works on laptop windows. Currently if i open S&I, with a few hangars or something, then i'm spreadsheets-in-space mode, which is sometimes kinda annoying. Also, when it's not comfortable on smaller screens, then having larger screens won't add more comfort. I already feel like having 2x1080p monitors not being enough for eve. Dunno, like try to optionally tab something, make stuff toggle-able (like how prism does in evehq), and so on, just firstglance wild ideas.
Also, please make sure I can manufacture multiple blueprints at the same times. Like strating 11 inventions. Or strting 11 manufacturing jobs from 11 BPCs. This is cruical for tech2/cap/tech3 production.
Regarding optional materials: Make sure the _only_ those are offered which make sense. Like right now i'm offered by the UI to use a gaylente decryptor for a matari BPC, which is just plain stupid, it's an invalid state.
These legends in the devblog are nice. Please make sure such explanations will be available in the new UI itself upon mouseovering certain parts of the new industry UI.
Please, make the jobs display more compact. Make an option (which is saved per installation/account/whatever) to remove icons, and some unneeded stuff. I understand that putting shiney things on attracts new players, however industrialists want to see the list, seeing as much per screen as possible. And these tall rows are counter-productive in this regard.
In the jobs view, please somewhere display the destination of the given job. That's important. Especially for already delivered jobs. Sometimes corpies are just retardedly messing up destination by not caring, and we have to find where the stuff did go.
For ME/PE could you add something that tells us where the blueprint is perfect, and by reaching a given point in research what waste mats/time we will still face?
Well for now I cannot say more, i have to get home and try this on sisi, hope it's there.
|
Alphari Vendren
Applied Vendrenics
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Peter Powers wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:Peter Powers wrote: What about bulk-creating-jobs?
when i have 10 Scorch M BPC, then doing the same clicking (well i guess dragging now) etc 10 times is *extremly* annoying, so can we please have an option to clone jobs?
The idea is that the system will remember all settings for a blueprint, so if you set up 1 Scorch M BPC, all subsequent blueprints of this type will default to the last submitted job settings. So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go. THANK YOU
+1
All the UI changes are looking nice, and the hisec/losec/null changes will see fortunes gained and lost and recouped, but THIS little change will make a real difference to your average joe doing industry day-to-day in EVE. |
Midori Tsu
Evolution Northern Coalition.
128
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:
Also everything will have tooltips if you need additional clarification or information about any element in the UI.
That info needs to be more obvious, not a tooltip, if want to write a number down in a spreadsheet or some other program, it would require more work than before. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7069
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
Magic Crisp wrote: 4) Industry tab: For material quantities please include some notations for the dimension, like 1000000000 trit should be like "100 000 000" or something alike. Make sure these extra characters go away when copying it (to be pasted into a sheet or something). Please keep the data easy to read.
oh god yes please do this (and use commas, not spaces)
right now the only person who can look at these numbers and figure out the magnitude without counting is Solo Drakban, who has a freakish ability to know exactly how many digits are in a number at a glance
the rest of us need to count to make sure it's 10 million, not 1 or 100 Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Midori Tsu
Evolution Northern Coalition.
128
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Magic Crisp wrote:
Regarding indistry window size: Please make sure it works on laptop windows. Currently if i open S&I, with a few hangars or something, then i'm spreadsheets-in-space mode, which is sometimes kinda annoying. Also, when it's not comfortable on smaller screens, then having larger screens won't add more comfort. I already feel like having 2x1080p monitors not being enough for eve. Dunno, like try to optionally tab something, make stuff toggle-able (like how prism does in evehq), and so on, just firstglance wild ideas.
I also feel like this window is going to be bigger than it needs to be. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1330
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go.
Ah, that's nice. Does it remember forever? Of, if I make a 15-run copy of the BPO I usually make 1-run copies of does it then remember the 15? Can I choose what it should remember (or choose when not to remember)?
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7070
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
re: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/SnI_TouchpointMatrix_Personas2.png
I don't know who on earth thought invention (queue up 10 one-hour jobs, repeat every hour on the hour) was "not repetitive" but they're crazy Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
|
|
CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
509
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
Midori Tsu wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:
Also everything will have tooltips if you need additional clarification or information about any element in the UI.
That info needs to be more obvious, not a tooltip, if want to write a number down in a spreadsheet or some other program, it would require more work than before.
The essential information will be there at all times, but things that are only needed as an additional clarification will be in a tooltip.
Give us specific examples about what information should be displayed at all times that you feel is missing. CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Game Design Director -á|-á-áEVE Online -á|-á-á@CCP_Arrow |
|
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
310
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'm sure that I will have lots to say later about this blog. Only just noticed it whilst download the patch tonight. Most of it will most likely be about Replacing some/all of the new Icons with Text for those of us that don't know the icons. |
John DaiSho
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
144
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
Please add the functionality that you can see how much of the required materials you have when you hover over the material in the industry window. Just make 2 numbers appear like ( 0 I 2300) if you own 0 and need 2300 or ( 4000 I 2300 ) if you have 4000 and need 2300. It is always nice to know how much exactly is missing or how much of your stock will remain. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1519
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
Looks nice, even if it's only UI stuff |
Centurax
Eve Engineering Authority Eve Engineering
47
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
Looks really good, cant wait to try it out.
The thing I would still like to see is maybe a unit/batch cost based off of the market average and a job total based on that, then maybe have a comparison against the market item (to see if it is even worth building the product).
If there is a right click option on the materials required to buy from market, would be good if it could automatically add the number required in the amount field Or have a buy all option.
Those are my only real issues as if you are installing many jobs and managing buying everything, everyone will forget to buy something or not buy enough of an item. It would be a nice addition to the interface, which is a vast improvement over the current. Just to clarify I have many times many spreadsheets to workout building stuff, it would just be nice to skip the spreadsheet stage for a quick build .
Keep up the good work |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
194
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
A. Wow. 2. Gonna have to read this in chunks. My tiny clone brain can't process all this goodness at once.
Gonna be a hell of a summer for the company. I hope everyone is ready for The Great Reprocessing that will happen the day before the expansion. I know I'm getting ready. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |
MadDog1
The Ghost Brigades
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Apparently, my survey wasn't so far fetched. CCP you are awesome! Everything that I mentioned in my survey was implemented, outside of group projects and player tracking of participation in that project.
I see there is a TEAM section, left undiscussed in the blog. Perhaps, this is the group functionality part? One of the main headaches in manufacturing specifically is that to do it in groups requires shared assets and nobody knows how much another person contributed to the overall project. Taking the new UI it seems like if a group met in a station and contributed their materials or blueprints from their personal hangars to a 'project hangar' using the UI drag and drop system, this could fix the current issue with group building.
A player might simply dock at a station where the corp has opened an office. 'Open Indy Project' insert BPO from their personal hangar (not the corps, unless it is a corp job) and assign access to contribute to individual players or an entire corp. At the bottom of the UI each members contribution to the project and estimated isk value of contribution could be listed (when completed players involved in the project might get a killmail type of widget that they can reference past projects and contributions to such projects). When players come online they drag and drop to the open project materials needed to complete the project. A TEAM option such as this will allow newer players to actually work together. The current issue with indy as it relates to manufacturing is many bpo's are owned by players and they hardly want to put those assets in the control of others, Especially, where the BPO's run into the billions. But, I am waiting for the TEAM section of the blog to see what you guys did in this regard. Certainly, you have exceeded my expectations on the UI design for indy and obviously aren't being lazy about the implementation and changes for indy UI.
Thank you CCP. |
|
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
305
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go. Ah, that's nice. Does it remember forever? Of, if I make a 15-run copy of the BPO I usually make 1-run copies of does it then remember the 15? Can I choose what it should remember (or choose when not to remember)?
We will have to nail down the details once it goes to Singularity. The idea however is that, it remembers the settings based on the last submitted job. If you are submitting a BPC of the same type with less runs, then it goes to the max number of runs based on availability of materials.
If you try and submit a BPC with more runs it should go to the max runs dependent on the materials available. Feel free to poke me on: Twitter |
|
Midori Tsu
Evolution Northern Coalition.
128
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Midori Tsu wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:
Also everything will have tooltips if you need additional clarification or information about any element in the UI.
That info needs to be more obvious, not a tooltip, if want to write a number down in a spreadsheet or some other program, it would require more work than before. The essential information will be there at all times, but things that are only needed as an additional clarification will be in a tooltip. Give us specific examples about what information should be displayed at all times that you feel is missing.
How much is needed, for example, having to look at a tooltip to see how much is needed is a step back imo. Currently the quote window will display it all, and you can quickly right it down. The new UI means i will have to put my pointer over each icon to see how much i need, right it down, then move my pointer to the next item and then right that down, and continue that process, this gets even more tedious when you want to put that info into a document outside of eve. An easy compromise to this would be a toggle to see a spreadsheet view of the minerals/items needed.
I think for established traders who already do all of the number crunching outside of eve this won't be such a big deal. But for new players i think they will find it frustrating to have to move the pointer over the icon to find out what it is an how much of it they will need.
I'm not to sure how the cost for each job is gonna pan out, but i think that for people who have all of their info in 3rd party programs or spreadsheets are going to find it annoying that the cost maybe constantly changing on them, i think this mostly effects capital and T2 builders the most. For example i'll use a carrier.
the barrier to entry for this is not low, getting everything where you need it is kind of a pain but once its set up its good to go. week 1 of production will show lets say a 1% cost. that first week will be components. a total of 1billion isk with 1% its nows 1.01 the next week you start to build the archon, but now theres more usage in that station so you get chargeds 2%, the cost of the carrier is now 1.03, no big deal. you carry on with this and the price of the carrier is now 1.04 to build, but then someone suddenly starts building a ton of stuff in that station, like cheap takes a long time to build stuff, jsut to clog up the lines. so now the fee is 10%, you have over 1000000 m3 of cap components that you can't really move, now you are forced with an even more increased cost. and if you continue in that station it will bea 20% increase. I don't know, im kind of rambling now, and the details haven't been released on this, but what im trying to say is that i feel like the ability to find out how much isk its going to cost you is going to be harder to keep up with. |
probag Bear
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
Initial reactions:
The most anticipated aspect of this blog for me, and many others, was the promise of "less clicks". That is not readily apparent in the blog, but, this dev response is more than satisfying. I find it odd that this wasn't mentioned in the blog itself, as arguably it's one of the most important things players were looking forward to, but oh well.
You mention being able to view and filter blueprints by division and containers. This is amazing. But, since other changes are forcing us to place blueprints inside POS arrays, I just want to seek confirmation of one thing: we will be able to view/filter blueprints residing in containers inside POS arrays, correct? This dev response from the last S&I blog made it sound that way, though in retrospect I might've just misinterpreted it in my excitement. This might not be an issue at all depending on how good the filtering system is; as with most of these reactions, I'll have to wait for SiSi.
I've noticed that the installations tab no longer has a Public/Corp filter, allowing POS-users to ignore the region-wide station installations that we'll almost never be using. Other parts of the blog (mostly installations defaulting to the blueprint's location) make this a non-issue, so I have nothing in particular against removing that filtering option. But there's that little part of me that hesitates to see a perfectly well-functioning feature disappear, because I might find myself missing it once in a blue moon.
Will we be able to set installation and destination defaults in any way? For example: for invention, I always use Division 1 as input and Division 2 as output, for manufacturing it's 3 -> 4, for reverse engineering it's 5 -> 6, etc. Under Rubicon's UI, I have to select these Division choices 10 times per character per session. Under the new UI I would only have to select them once per character per session, which is already a huge improvement. But it'd be even nicer if I could just set all Invention jobs to default to Divisions 1->2 once per character, and never have to bother with it again.
I was a bit worried that the new fancy UI might actually end up being more work to navigate than the old drop-down menus, but this dev response assuaged my fears. Overall though, I'll really have to wait until the changes are implemented on SiSi to be able to judge. There's other grayish details that could turn out to be amazing quality-of-live improvements, but they're minor things that I'll be able to check on my own. Congrats on all the new icons, visualizations, displays, and so forth: it looks like it was a significant chunk of work. |
|
Korthan Doshu
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
This looks like a great improvement! We know that serious industrialists will almost always use external tools to help them work with the system, so dropping the number of clicks necessary for everybody and giving lots of intuitive information for newbros looks like the best way to improve the interface. Good job. |
Shamus en Divalone
Dip Dip Potatoe Chip
18
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
I use a certain out of eve tool that calculates everything i need to aquire to make a certain item, would it be possible instead of mousing over, writing down and such to just have a 'copy info to clip board' option?
Then I can just paste that info into my in game note pad or mail it to an alt/colleague who is at a trade hub while i carry on manufacturing/researching ect.... |
|
CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
510
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Looks like this one is a little light on fundamental gameplay changes. The UI looks nice, but really got to actually try it out for a little while before I can say much about how much of an improvement it is. I'm sure there will be an adjustment period but at a minimum this looks way better than the old one, so hopefully it's also easier to use as well. I am interested in what these are: "get 'workers' availability information" and "see delegation/outsourcing options" from here: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/SnI_TaskModel_01.pngGuessing the first is something to do with teams, but what's the second?
A Task Model is the first step of brainstorming where we start very broad term and then scope things down. This Task Model was done to allow us to explore high level concepts which we have since then iterated on quite heavily. It's there to show our methods rather than give an accurate idea of what's coming. CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Game Design Director -á|-á-áEVE Online -á|-á-á@CCP_Arrow |
|
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
75
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Also everything will have tooltips if you need additional clarification or information about any element in the UI.
Soo, can the icons be turned into text without having to mouse over all of them one by one?
|
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Curatores Veritatis Alliance
151
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:17:00 -
[55] - Quote
probag Bear wrote:I I just want to seek confirmation of one thing: we will be able to view/filter blueprints residing in containers inside POS arrays, correct?
Correction: remotely. Will we be able to insert jobs by mats/BPs found at POSs remotely?
|
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises StarFleet.
171
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:17:00 -
[56] - Quote
Why does it show a Myrmidon with a Tech 2 icon on the first blueprint image? |
probag Bear
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
Magic Crisp wrote:probag Bear wrote:I I just want to seek confirmation of one thing: we will be able to view/filter blueprints residing in containers inside POS arrays, correct? Correction: remotely. Will we be able to insert jobs by mats/BPs found at POSs remotely?
That's actually a really good point; I just assumed that'd be the case, but looking again, the devblog never confirms it. It would be absolutely terrible if we could not remotely install from BPs inside POS arrays. |
Skyylar Solette
Hard Knocks Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
I guess my one concern would be making it so that only the base stats show up on BPOs and you have to look at the industry tab to see how long it would take you to build/research that bpo. I mean yes it is consistent but honestly when I'm contemplating building something I don't want to have to go look it up somewhere to figure out how long its going to take me to build. Just clicking on the hyperlink for a BPO and scrolling down and seeing how long it will take ME to build it is far more useful since frankly I DON'T CARE how long it takes an unskilled character to build something. |
Sturmwolke
553
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
This looks like a translation or re-skinning the old UI, to a more visual UI. Were the obvious flaws in the old UI addressed thoroughly? On top of my head two things :
1) No transparency on your total inventory per item when inputting jobs, forcing you to double check the numbers on the inventory screen. This is double work. There are times when you are more interested in the number of materials remaining in stock. e.g. manufacturing a Shuttle
Current: Tritanium 2500/2500
What it needs to display: Tritanium 2500/2500 (Stock : Tritanium 1,345,324)
2) See http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo Well known to those involved in manufacturing and research. See those ME/PE projections? It should be default ingame.
3) Blog didn't specify if that character slot tracking flaw has been addressed. If a character have 10 slots free, it should show 10/10 (remaining) for quick reference. It's inane needing to count the number of jobs line by line in order to confirm the number of slots remaining (for that character) if you somehow missed a step or forgot how many had been already queued.
|
Skyylar Solette
Hard Knocks Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:Why does it show a Myrmidon with a Tech 2 icon on the first blueprint image?
That would be an Eos |
|
Radgette
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
76
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:31:00 -
[61] - Quote
Skyylar Solette wrote:I guess my one concern would be making it so that only the base stats show up on BPOs and you have to look at the industry tab to see how long it would take you to build/research that bpo. I mean yes it is consistent but honestly when I'm contemplating building something I don't want to have to go look it up somewhere to figure out how long its going to take me to build. Just clicking on the hyperlink for a BPO and scrolling down and seeing how long it will take ME to build it is far more useful since frankly I DON'T CARE how long it takes an unskilled character to build something.
This a hundred times this. Don't add extra work for no reward. I don't care what materials it requires unskilled or researched. When i click show info it needs to show what I need to build/ research it |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:34:00 -
[62] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Magic Crisp wrote: 4) Industry tab: For material quantities please include some notations for the dimension, like 1000000000 trit should be like "100 000 000" or something alike. Make sure these extra characters go away when copying it (to be pasted into a sheet or something). Please keep the data easy to read.
oh god yes please do this (and use commas, not spaces) right now the only person who can look at these numbers and figure out the magnitude without counting is Solo Drakban, who has a freakish ability to know exactly how many digits are in a number at a glance the rest of us need to count to make sure it's 10 million, not 1 or 100
Please no. Many of us use commas as a decimal separator so spaces are far better option as it doesn't actually introduce any confusion.
Or even better add a setting so people can decide on thousand separator and decimal separator. That way everyone gets what they are used to. |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
832
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:34:00 -
[63] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Peter Powers wrote:ok, so now it is shiny and better looking and all, but uhm, it still seems to lack (or i did misread the post) one feature that i know me (and others) have been asking for in the past.
What about bulk-creating-jobs?
when i have 10 Scorch M BPC, then doing the same clicking (well i guess dragging now) etc 10 times is *extremly* annoying, so can we please have an option to clone jobs? can this dragging, clicking thing please be a template, and we can create 10 jobs without doing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?
regards, PP The idea is that the system will remember all settings for a blueprint, so if you set up 1 Scorch M BPC, all subsequent blueprints of this type will default to the last submitted job settings. So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go. Oh sweet merciful CCP That is edenic in comparison to now Inifinite slots, memory, a 5% reduction
You just want everyone to use POSes now dont you? |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises StarFleet.
171
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
Skyylar Solette wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:Why does it show a Myrmidon with a Tech 2 icon on the first blueprint image? That would be an Eos
Normally yes, a T2 Myrm is an Eos , but it says Produces 1x Myrmidon. And the whole thing about using skiff blueprint icons to make a Megathron Federate Issue that looks like Large Sabot. |
Costly Misstake
Venom.
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
I've been playing "Spreadsheets Online" for many years now. The new GUI looks nice, but I don't see much in the way of tools for the daily tasks of most industrial players. Please consider adding more tools such as:
- Cost and profit calculations based on user input, not automatic estimated prices (this doesn't work). Yes, this means links to Jita prices.
- Detailed accounting records, showing how much profit or loss for specific time periods.
If we still have to use spreadsheets and 3rd party apps, you are just making eye candy for nothing.
Regards
|
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
435
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:36:00 -
[66] - Quote
You lack the most important question in the GOAL picture:
Will it be profitable and how much profit will it make? |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2810
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:37:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ok, so it appears you have 4 days to pump out 3 more blogs, if the dev's promises are to be honoured.
While any attempt to improve the UI is to be lauded, bottom line, all these changes are meaningless for a large segement of your player base if you continue down the path of handing the cartels advantages in every single part of the industry process. And propagandists, please don't give post that crap about risk / reward or transportation costs.
If some high sec manufacturer is forced to set up shop 20 jumps from Jita to even be remotely competitive with a null sec adversary, that means huge disadvantage high sec player. Unless of course, CCP suddenly allows Jump Freighter cynos in high sec, or bans all freighter ganking at high sec chokepoints. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
643
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:38:00 -
[68] - Quote
Midori Tsu wrote:I also feel like some info being given in the window is too vague, like the cost bar, that should be a number instead.
If you mean the cost bar on the Installations tab, then that is providing an average relative price between the different facilities but as you will find out in a later blog the exact cost for installing jobs is going to vary based on both the activity and the blueprint being used. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
643
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tam Althor wrote:The new UI will be nice to play with, however, it really means nothing for current people involved in industry compared to the content of the blogs that are supposed to follow this week. Can we get an actual timeline on those?
This week. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1330
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Magic Crisp wrote: 4) Industry tab: For material quantities please include some notations for the dimension, like 1000000000 trit should be like "100 000 000" or something alike. Make sure these extra characters go away when copying it (to be pasted into a sheet or something). Please keep the data easy to read.
oh god yes please do this (and use commas, not spaces) right now the only person who can look at these numbers and figure out the magnitude without counting is Solo Drakban, who has a freakish ability to know exactly how many digits are in a number at a glance the rest of us need to count to make sure it's 10 million, not 1 or 100
|
|
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
56
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Industry UI DevBlog wrote:Filtering the blueprints by their inventory location will now be possible, allowing you to include corporation divisions and station containers. \o/ ^This. Organizing production, research, and invention materials/blueprints/etc into separate Station Warehouse Continers helps, but causes issues when the interface does not automatically find those container locations. I can not wait for these changes.
Are containers (access and inventory management) receiving other improvements as well? Ejecting container inventory, remote repair, repackaging remotely, and listing all items on market is all but impossible remotely or under circumstances like item needed repairs/drugs/illegal items located in the container. Using jump clone was always an option, but most would probably trash the goods. |
Geezelbub
Barely Illegal
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:42:00 -
[72] - Quote
This +100
For example. To do 10 T2 Ship BPC Inventions now is a clickfest, time consuming mess.
IF this new UI doesn't make it so I can one or two click 10 invention jobs when I have all the proper stuff in one hanger than it is nothing but fluff IMO.
Fluff we don't need, less clicks and intuitive, functional interfaces we do need. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7071
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:43:00 -
[73] - Quote
Axhind wrote: Please no. Many of us use commas as a decimal separator so spaces are far better option as it doesn't actually introduce any confusion.
Or even better add a setting so people can decide on thousand separator and decimal separator. That way everyone gets what they are used to.
while that is wrong, i suppose you should be allowed to continue being wrong
however the eve client currently uses a period for a decimal separator and a comma on the markets for a magnitude separator (for me, at least) so either the ability to toggle this already exists in-game and I have it set to Correct and that should just get extended to this, or the eve client uses the comma for magnitude and the dot for decimal already so that should be maintained for this new system Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
|
CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
510
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
Just to elaborate on a few things, here is a section from the blog that judging from the feedback needs to be clarified more to the point:
Interactions should be efficient and meaningful
Any interaction in the Industry UI should be a gameplay-related decision done by the player instead of the player farming through confirmation windows and checkboxes. We wanted to strip out any unnecessary interaction unless it had specific purpose for the task at hand, whether that is changing actual input materials or output destination or simply adding more runs to a job. We added multiple ways to efficiently add count on runs (using keyboard shortcuts or direct manipulation on a value slider around the selected blueprint). Speed was another important factor and players will be able to start jobs super quickly and get instant updates on values when tinkering with job runs.
The TL;DR of this section is:
- The system will be smart, it will auto apply all need materials when you click a blueprint (don't have to drag).
- The system will automatically go to the max runs the blueprint supports if you have enough requirements, or go to the amount it can handle with the requirements you have.
- Speed was one of our BIG goals, this is much much much faster than before.
- The system persists any settings so if you click another blueprint, it goes to the same settings as the one before it.
- You will be able to re-submit past jobs with a single click.
CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Game Design Director -á|-á-áEVE Online -á|-á-á@CCP_Arrow |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7071
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:45:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:
You will be able to re-submit past jobs with a single click. [/list] whoa, this is interesting and a Big Deal, could you elaborate on how this works? How far back does this extend? Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
643
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:46:00 -
[76] - Quote
probag Bear wrote:You mention being able to view and filter blueprints by division and containers. This is amazing. But, since other changes are forcing us to place blueprints inside POS arrays, I just want to seek confirmation of one thing: we will be able to view/filter blueprints residing in containers inside POS arrays, correct?
Yes, you will be able to build using materials and blueprints inside containers in a POS or in a station. The materials and the blueprint however must be in the correct assembly array.
probag Bear wrote:I've noticed that the installations tab no longer has a Public/Corp filter, allowing POS-users to ignore the region-wide station installations that we'll almost never be using.
Good point, we'll see about adding it again. A lot of the filter options are completely open for debate.
probag Bear wrote:Will we be able to set installation and destination defaults in any way? For example: for invention, I always use Division 1 as input and Division 2 as output, for manufacturing it's 3 -> 4, for reverse engineering it's 5 -> 6, etc. Under Rubicon's UI, I have to select these Division choices 10 times per character per session. Under the new UI I would only have to select them once per character per session, which is already a huge improvement. But it'd be even nicer if I could just set all Invention jobs to default to Divisions 1->2 once per character, and never have to bother with it again.
It will remember between sessions.
CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
435
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:47:00 -
[77] - Quote
I also have to say that I like your wireframe a lot more than the current end-result. The wireframe appears a lot less cluttered and skeuomorphic than the end-result. It shows a clear progression for the items, whereas with your current end-result you don't know where some lines lead to. That's confusing. Also a lot of the icons and bars are less recognizable with the current end-result than with the first wireframe.
The indicators for Ready/Not ready are also not exactly clearly recognizable, the outer ring sections indicating readiness of certain parts seem to me too dark. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7074
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote: We're hoping to have a 3 month history, we still need to do some performance testing on this.
Sweet deal. It might also be handy if you could mark certain jobs as favorites or the like using the same functionality: say I decide to become the Ishtar King of Deklein: I may want to have my component jobs saved permanently on a separate tab so I can just go push a bunch of buttons and all the components start chugging away in the correct proportions. While if I keep it up those jobs will always be in the history, it would be easiest if I could just have a tab for my often-used ones so I don't have to hunt.
But even without that functionality this is great news, I don't understand why that wasn't a big flashing thing in the devblog as I bet a lot of people are going to love it. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
TheButcherPete
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
417
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:54:00 -
[79] - Quote
This flashy new UI is great and all, but this expansion is gonna fall really short of your expectations, if you keep mining as dull as it is. I know it's ~oldcode~ but sometimes you have to step out of your comfort zone CCP, and no I don't mean "revive WoD"
Please, for the love of the diety of your choice, REVAMP MINING THE KING OF EVE RADIO
ElQuirko is my son |
probag Bear
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:56:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes, you will be able to build using materials and blueprints inside containers in a POS or in a station. The materials and the blueprint however must be in the correct assembly array. It will remember between sessions.
CCP Nullarbor wrote:We're hoping to have a 3 month history, we still need to do some performance testing on this.
Awesome! Seems that I'd set my expectations way too low |
|
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
135
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
Looks like some very nice changes. Hard to tell until one actually gets to use it.
Just the fact that previous job information will be saved will be a huge improvement. damn it is hard to delete my signature |
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven
52
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:58:00 -
[82] - Quote
Currently reading through it all. There are no words. Can't explain how awesome this is. Greatness. |
Theng Hofses
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:00:00 -
[83] - Quote
The ability to batch copy jobs and invention jobs would be a HUGE step forward and fundamentally fix the click fest problem that copy, invention and manufacturing is today. With what is see here you are putting a pretty band aid on the problem for small scale industrialists. I am not convinced based on what you have showed here is that you have fixed the issues when you do industry on an industrial scale. Think of it this way: How can I make the life easier of someone who builds several product lines of say thousands of identical T2 items (T2 Sentries for example) from scratch via invention a week? Does this really solve the issue? |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
425
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:00:00 -
[84] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote: We're hoping to have a 3 month history, we still need to do some performance testing on this.
But even without that functionality this is great news, I don't understand why that wasn't a big flashing thing in the devblog as I bet a lot of people are going to love it. Agreed on this; this is a major usability change, and more people should know about it. I recommend amending the devblog to contain the information. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:02:00 -
[85] - Quote
Request for devs : please make all "numbers" (i.e http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/Blueprints_ShowInfo_Industry.png quantity here) readable !
not "2850000" but "2,850,000" or "2 850 000" just like when we have edited a price in an order and want to see it while changing focus. |
chain evoltion
Equilibrium - Enterprises Satori Group
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:03:00 -
[86] - Quote
great changes for industry ui,
Does this mean you lot from ccp are FINALY addressing the lack of seeing blueprints with specs that can be linked?
Now we have the S&I tab that shows it but is not linkable, and an inventory that does not show ME/ PE and runs. furthermore the inventory does allow you to show useless things as tech lv. come ccp you had years to fix this |
Kaius Fero
40
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:04:00 -
[87] - Quote
Finally some awesome changes, totally love it! Big LIKE!! |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
435
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:04:00 -
[88] - Quote
With the comparison of different installation locations, how much lag can we expect? Currently, it is a major pain in the back to open the market window or Character info window (at least for me), because it causes the game to stutter and freeze until all the data (or whatever it does) is loaded. Can I expect this to be the case in the new Indu window as well? |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:2) See http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpoWell known to those involved in manufacturing and research. See those ME/PE projections? It should be default ingame.
Jercy's data is essential to most everyone who touches the spreadsheet side of EVE. I don't see that going away. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
645
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:07:00 -
[90] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Who gets the notification about completed corporate jobs?
Is it possible to disable this notification? (As an inventor, I can go through 100+ jobs a day without too much trouble. And most of those are in a POS (copy slots needed. Might as well use the others too))
People who have access to deliver it, and yes disabling them will be possible however the notification feature will be coming in a point release later. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
|
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1497
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:09:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Peter Powers wrote:ok, so now it is shiny and better looking and all, but uhm, it still seems to lack (or i did misread the post) one feature that i know me (and others) have been asking for in the past.
What about bulk-creating-jobs?
when i have 10 Scorch M BPC, then doing the same clicking (well i guess dragging now) etc 10 times is *extremly* annoying, so can we please have an option to clone jobs? can this dragging, clicking thing please be a template, and we can create 10 jobs without doing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?
regards, PP The idea is that the system will remember all settings for a blueprint, so if you set up 1 Scorch M BPC, all subsequent blueprints of this type will default to the last submitted job settings. So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go.
This is going to be quite the improvement. Especially if translated across alts somehow in corp jobs. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
As someone with a bunch of PI planets, i'm really looking forward to seeing how they reduce clicks through UI improvement, if this blog is to be any indication. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
645
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:10:00 -
[93] - Quote
Theng Hofses wrote:The ability to batch copy jobs and invention jobs would be a HUGE step forward and fundamentally fix the click fest problem that copy, invention and manufacturing is today. With what is see here you are putting a pretty band aid on the problem for small scale industrialists. I am not convinced based on what you have showed here is that you have fixed the issues when you do industry on an industrial scale. Think of it this way: How can I make the life easier of someone who builds several product lines of say thousands of identical T2 items (T2 Sentries for example) from scratch via invention a week? Does this really solve the issue?
We have been playing around with the idea of batch installing jobs, however the speed of submitting new jobs or resubmitting old ones may mean we just don't need the added complexity that batching creates. When this hits SiSi we'll be looking for feedback on exactly this. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
650
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:13:00 -
[94] - Quote
I still think some of the activity icons are confusing and unclear. But it seems they aren't too bad since I did guess them all correctly in the previous blog.
Having persistent settings is a huge time saver, especially for invention. Many thanks.
I'm really interested in the quality metric that is now show. Previously, we really had no way of knowing what would effect our invention runs and how. I'd like to know more about what goes into that metric and how that quality number is determined.
I'm looking forward to trying this out on Sisi. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
645
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:With the comparison of different installation locations, how much lag can we expect? Currently, it is a major pain in the back to open the market window or Character info window (at least for me), because it causes the game to stutter and freeze until all the data (or whatever it does) is loaded. Can I expect this to be the case in the new Indu window as well?
This depends a little bit on your internet connection, swapping activity or blueprint will require a remote call in the background, however you no longer need to click a fetch quote button and we are optimizing this checking as much as possible to keep the interface snappy. A lot of the validation is now performed client side to help achieve this. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
Uncle Shrimpa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:17:00 -
[96] - Quote
3/6 due blogs down and so far nothing much more than polishing a turd
Those last 3 dev blogs better knock our socks off
So, I have 6 Titans in some sort of build process, 3 in cooker and 3 going thru components
If I drag a Titan BPO to the UI window, it will show as all components in build, will it allow me to seperate out by POS or certain station
For example in pos 1 I have an Avatar in components and pos 2 I have an Erebus in components, pos 3 I want to start an avatar, will it recognize just the minerals and build jobs of that pos only or will it do a collective on all corp jobs either by system or region etc?
To expand on weasellior question, if I have full Titans worth of minerals in CSAA and I have 6 turret hard point BPO in a CAA, will it automatically build out for the Titan I put in the window of the industry UI? Do I still have to manually move minerals from CSAA to CAA 1 mil m3 at a time to start each job separately? Or will it know where I got the minerals after the first job or based on where the Titan BPO is located and get minerals from there? Will it treat the pos as one big storage? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21360
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:17:00 -
[97] - Quote
This looks like a definite improvement.
HoweverGǪ
GǪI still maintain that it is still blueprint focused when it should be work-flow focused. The improvements mainly touch information discoverability and visualisation, and providing all the same old settings in a single work sheet. You still have to go through the same motions as before though,
Instead of picking a blueprint and selecting what you want to do with it, the process should be selecting what you want to do and then picking the blueprints you want to do it with. By reasoning for this is that, with or without the functionality being in the game, people work in batches: GÇ£today, I'm going to put these 5 BPCs into the manufacturing queueGÇ¥; GÇ£now, I'm going to invent from these 10 BPCs (and in 75 minutes, I'll do the same from 10 new ones)GÇ¥.
By the look of it, this new UI sill requires me to pick the blueprints, one by one, and setting each up. Yes, keeping the settings from the last time a job was done will help, but it means I will have to fiddle every time I need to do something new. Yesterday, I made copies of the BPO; today, I'm going to manufacture the T1 items that go into the T2 procution; tomorrow, I'll ME-research it a bit more. Will all of these different uses be remembered for each blueprint, or will I have to set them up every time? It still seems to be a matter of Pick (single) BP GåÆ pick activity GåÆ pick installation GåÆ check and accept GåÆ repeat.
I feel a better method would be to use a funnel method to go from large to small: first, I pick the installation where all my materials are. Then I pick an activity, and the defaults for this activity are applied. Then I shift-select 20 blueprints and dump them into the installation+activity combo I've picked GÇö if I want something special, I can adjust them individually, but the defaults will probably work sinceGǪ well they are my defaults. Then it's just a matter of clicking the GÇ£do it!GÇ¥ button (if all requirements come up as green) and go to bed. This would make the process Pick installation GåÆ pick activity GåÆ pick all BPs GåÆ accept. No repeat needed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
645
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:20:00 -
[98] - Quote
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage?
This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:21:00 -
[99] - Quote
This looks like it will be a fantastic upgrade.
As someone who does EVERYTHING with just this character (one account, one character, no alts... on purpose), anything that makes operations more streamlined and understandable is very welcomed.
I was particularly happy to read you're planning a notification for when a job is finished. That will be a big plus for someone who runs Jump Clones and could be (literally) on the other side of space when the job is finished. |
Sturmwolke
553
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:26:00 -
[100] - Quote
One more thing. Consider introducing an additional "BPC Block/Packet" option to make buying/selling/manufacturing from BPCs less painful for items with multiple parts requirements. Similar to the Fuel Block concept. Random example.
Current packaged capital production requires : 1) Capital ship BPC 2) Capital part BPC
Manufacturing involves 2 stages, first assembling the capital parts and then combining them in the final capital ship manufacture. While the above is valid for certain situations i.e where you've already got certain parts in stock etc, it isn't valid for a full fresh build from scratch.
The main aim for the BPC Block/Packet is to reduce this to 1 single stage - just listing the total minerals/materials required to build it (all parts included).
|
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7077
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:27:00 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage? This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable. :argh:
you don't know how irritating it is trying to fit the exact right proportion of minerals in a component assembly array to let you get a nice 100-run component job, you've got to move each mineral individually and it is a pain in the ass
please to be increasing the capacity of the component assembly array to get around that tia Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21363
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:31:00 -
[102] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage? This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable. :argh: you don't know how irritating it is trying to fit the exact right proportion of minerals in a component assembly array to let you get a nice 100-run component job, you've got to move each mineral individually and it is a pain in the ass please to be increasing the capacity of the component assembly array to get around that tia GǪor, even better, make POSes work as a cohesive unit with a single storage capacity comprised of all the modules activated at the POS. Same with all other capabilities you can attach to it.
Ok, so slots are going away, but let's use them as an example anyway: instead of getting a separate lab with 3 ME slots at 25k m-¦, we should simply get +3 slots and +25k to what's already there so that the POS, as a single installation, now has (say) 12 slots at a total storage space of 475k. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Sturmwolke
553
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:32:00 -
[103] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:Sturmwolke wrote:2) See http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpoWell known to those involved in manufacturing and research. See those ME/PE projections? It should be default ingame. Jercy's data is essential to most everyone who touches the spreadsheet side of EVE. I don't see that going away. It's not meant to replace intensive spreadsheet references. Mostly, it's used for quick estimations than anything in detail. Having a reasonable base for rough estimations ingmae is very useful for many players out there. You run your spreadsheets after, out of game.
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7077
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:33:00 -
[104] - Quote
Tippia wrote: GǪor, even better, make POSes work as a cohesive unit with a single storage capacity comprised of all the modules activated at the POS. Same with all other capabilities you can attach to it..
that would be preferable but it's what they just said wasn't happening cause it requires reworking pos code :v:
a volume increase though hopefully is possible! Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
436
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:34:00 -
[105] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:With the comparison of different installation locations, how much lag can we expect? Currently, it is a major pain in the back to open the market window or Character info window (at least for me), because it causes the game to stutter and freeze until all the data (or whatever it does) is loaded. Can I expect this to be the case in the new Indu window as well? This depends a little bit on your internet connection, swapping activity or blueprint will require a remote call in the background, however you no longer need to click a fetch quote button and we are optimizing this checking as much as possible to keep the interface snappy. A lot of the validation is now performed client side to help achieve this.
Of course it does, and you cannot expect wonders with a modem. But I don't have a modem and my connection is never fully utilized when I open the market or char windows. Neither the download bandwidth, nor the upload bandwidth; ping and package loss also don't show apparent issues. |
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
84
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:35:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Theng Hofses wrote:The ability to batch copy jobs and invention jobs would be a HUGE step forward and fundamentally fix the click fest problem that copy, invention and manufacturing is today. With what is see here you are putting a pretty band aid on the problem for small scale industrialists. I am not convinced based on what you have showed here is that you have fixed the issues when you do industry on an industrial scale. Think of it this way: How can I make the life easier of someone who builds several product lines of say thousands of identical T2 items (T2 Sentries for example) from scratch via invention a week? Does this really solve the issue? We have been playing around with the idea of batch installing jobs, however the speed of submitting new jobs or resubmitting old ones may mean we just don't need the added complexity that batching creates. When this hits SiSi we'll be looking for feedback on exactly this.
Here's your feedback - most forms of industry have multiple runs. Ships, modules, ammo etc - all of them come together to igve me stuff that can take at least a sizeable number of hours, days or even weeks.
Invention doesn't have this.
Every job has it's length and that's that. While this is okay for people inventing the next marauder, invention jobs that last a single hour or so leave many wasted hours and have a god awful time requirement to get the most out of what you're doing - completely backward compared to the entire rest of the industry.
Unless you REALLY intend all industry to be semi-passive except for small scale invention jobs, it'd be nice to include batch manufacture and research. |
Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
86
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:36:00 -
[107] - Quote
As CCP Arrow asked for it, I'll add feedback even though I don't have anything earth shaking to add....
I do want to add voice to some things already asked for.
1. Some type of number separator for ease of reading.
2. The ability to see what stock will remain before starting the job. If you need 100 trit and you have it that is great. I would like to be able to see how much trit I will have left. Perhaps a tool tip where you could hover over to see remaining stock?
Overall I am very excited over the UI changes. This is the first update I have been looking forward to for the content of the update opposed to just the opportunities to exploit the market as the result of changes caused by an update.
This is also the first time I have ever desired to install the test server to see what is on the way.
Awesome job CCP. While eve should always be about spaceships, it's nice to see some attention shown to those who build them! |
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:37:00 -
[108] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Tippia wrote: GǪor, even better, make POSes work as a cohesive unit with a single storage capacity comprised of all the modules activated at the POS. Same with all other capabilities you can attach to it..
that would be preferable but it's what they just said wasn't happening cause it requires reworking pos code :v: a volume increase though hopefully is possible!
1 upping volume increase. Mineral tetris is not fun.
On a related note: **** YOU JUMP BRIDGE ARRAY |
Vesan Terakol
Sad Face Enterprises
61
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:38:00 -
[109] - Quote
A quick question about the interface
Would there be an indicator of YOUR remaining production/science slots? i believe this will be very useful, but i'm missing it in the mock up.
Outside of that, pretty impressive, can't wait to put it in action. Can we get it before the actual expansion? It will save so many people so much pain. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4259327 - more suff in the Zero.Zero collection |
H3llHound
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:38:00 -
[110] - Quote
You should have another look at that graphic. Invention has a full circle at 'task to repetitive' |
|
Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:39:00 -
[111] - Quote
So far i like the changes in the dev blog, but one of my personal main issues with the current mfg system remains.
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes, you will be able to build using materials and blueprints inside containers in a POS or in a station. The materials and the blueprint however must be in the correct assembly array.
Why is it so hard to allow stuff to be taken from another array/hangar at a POS? I mean requiring BPs and mats to be inside the correct array still forces us to be physically present at the POS every time we need to move stuff between arrays, which imho is totally unnecessary... Just allow source location to be selected amongst all legal arrays/hangars at the POS in question, same to output destination, and make the UI remember those selections.
A simple example how i imagine the "perfect" POS manufacturing setup:
1 source hangar or LSAA X labs Y arrays, distributed across different types (drones/eq,comp)
Now the user can link labs/arrays to source and destination storage (or use the default of the array/lab itself) so that for large enterprises it is possible to centralize input and output into one single hangar/storage, instead of the current hassle. And to be honest, being forced to move insane amounts of mats between dozens of arrays (which each has a laughable small storage space) is the reason that lead me to move all manufacturing besides rigs and drones into a station, not the click-fest of installing jobs.
Storage pooling and flexible input/output locations are at least as important as the reduction in clicks required for a single job!
Oh, and definitely apply the previously mentioned pre-filtering of all optional materials based on the BP in question. Since racial decryptors are tied to racial BPCs, it is utter rubbish to even allow them to be selected for "foreign" target BPCs. And make the UI remember the selected decryptor for a given BPC (based on runs).
|
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
386
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:39:00 -
[112] - Quote
Getting a fuzzy feeling inside.....need to test on sisi, so let us know as soon as it is live. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Tetania
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
45
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:40:00 -
[113] - Quote
I was about to post asking about chaining CSAAs like silos and reactors together to allow assembly arrays to pull minerals from larger storage structures.
I'm now a sad panda.
I second the request to dramatically increase the size of assembly arrays to make the mineral juggling less time consuming. Restrict the allowed contents to only BPs and minerals if you are concerned about possible storage abuses.
Being able to put the minerals for around 1/3 of a titan in it would be great a whole titan would be ideal. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21367
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:40:00 -
[114] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:that would be preferable but it's what they just said wasn't happening cause it requires reworking pos code :v:
a volume increase though hopefully is possible! Sloppy reading. But yes, something needs to be done with the storage limitations in POSes. The only activity that doesn't suffer that much currently is invention and copying since they don't require massive volumes of consumables (and even then, it's just because the number of slots are so low compared to the storage spaceGǪ the hassle of keeping each lab properly stocked is still there).
So just think of it as a +1 for the unified storage notion, and a reminder that other properties could and should be treated the same. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Theng Hofses
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:42:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Theng Hofses wrote:The ability to batch copy jobs and invention jobs would be a HUGE step forward and fundamentally fix the click fest problem that copy, invention and manufacturing is today. With what is see here you are putting a pretty band aid on the problem for small scale industrialists. I am not convinced based on what you have showed here is that you have fixed the issues when you do industry on an industrial scale. Think of it this way: How can I make the life easier of someone who builds several product lines of say thousands of identical T2 items (T2 Sentries for example) from scratch via invention a week? Does this really solve the issue? We have been playing around with the idea of batch installing jobs, however the speed of submitting new jobs or resubmitting old ones may mean we just don't need the added complexity that batching creates. When this hits SiSi we'll be looking for feedback on exactly this.
Great. Just to give you a better number for only one product line: Month to date slightly more than 17,000 T2 Sentries built which needed 3,518 copies to be invented, 176 copy runs @ 20 copies each... |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1351
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:45:00 -
[116] - Quote
I remember telling you guys to reduce the clickfest. Looks like you remembered :)
Can't wait to see this on sisi GRRR Goons |
Uncle Shrimpa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:45:00 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage? This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable.
Then the remote skill is truly a waste now. Before it was used to use a BPO from station in a pos, now that that single thing is taken away it will be impossible to do this currently as you will physically have to be at the pos to deliver or our on build jobs as everything we pretty much do in a CAA requires the size to be much larger. Once you deliver jobs and overfill the array, you have to empty it before you can do everything else, so again, you have to be at the pos, so remote skill is freaking USELESS |
Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:48:00 -
[118] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Weaselior wrote:that would be preferable but it's what they just said wasn't happening cause it requires reworking pos code :v:
a volume increase though hopefully is possible! Sloppy reading. But yes, something needs to be done with the storage limitations in POSes. The only activity that doesn't suffer that much currently is invention and copying since they don't require massive volumes of consumables (and even then, it's just because the number of slots are so low compared to the storage spaceGǪ the hassle of keeping each lab properly stocked is still there). So just think of it as a +1 for the unified storage notion, and a reminder that other properties could and should be treated the same.
In case a completely unified storage system for POSes is out of the question, then at least the could allow us to link arrays/labs/storages much the same way it already works for reactions?
I have no idea how messed up the POS code really is, but can imagine linking of "consumer" modules at a POS might be doable without a complete code rework...
|
mkint
1163
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:51:00 -
[119] - Quote
What's the deal with CCP's obsession with removing labels from icons, and forcing a hover over to actually get useful information? Build requirements as icons is stupid. No matter how familiar you are with the icons themselves, it will never ever ever be as fast as a glance at a written name. It is absolutely impossible to tell at a glance the material requirements without hovering over 11 different icons one at a time. That's called "worse." Even the name of what's being produced is tucked away at the bottom of the window after 4 different completely irrelevant images. Graphics heavy does not make something automatically better, and when a meaningless picture is substituted for useful text, it's automatically worse.
Can I get a text-only version of this new UI? The icons obfuscate useful information rather than provide any. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21369
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:55:00 -
[120] - Quote
mkint wrote:What's the deal with CCP's obsession with removing labels from icons, and forcing a hover over to actually get useful information? Build requirements as icons is stupid. No matter how familiar you are with the icons themselves, it will never ever ever be as fast as a glance at a written name. It is absolutely impossible to tell at a glance the material requirements without hovering over 11 different icons one at a time. That's called " worse." Even the name of what's being produced is tucked away at the bottom of the window after 4 different completely irrelevant images. Graphics heavy does not make something automatically better, and when a meaningless picture is substituted for useful text, it's automatically worse. +1
Include text labels for all materials, please. Remember how you had to go back on the pretty but nondescript weapon icons? Same goes here. Immediate recognition > pretty graphics. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
310
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:56:00 -
[121] - Quote
Discoverability of the feature is key Blueprint Show info window It is missing a heap of useful information. I typically look at this window for 2 reasons. - First talking with a Corpie about S&I and stepping them through it, seeing the unskilled version of the figures is great for this. - Second is when I am looking to do something with the Blueprint, seeing the figures taking my skills into account is perfect for this. ^^ WE NEED BOTH SETS OF FIGURES ^^
Icons for the love of god give the option of using TEXT instead of ICONS.
The Icons for Manufacture/ME/PE/Invention/etc will take a huge time to get used to, I have a feeling that I will remember it more buy it's the 3rd icon from the left than actually recognising it. at least with Text you can read it and click on the correct one every time. Also Text tabs take up less vertical space than Icons, and most people use wide-screen displays, therefore vertical screen real-estate is more important than Horizontal.
Again with the lack of 2 sets of figures on the Industry tab. we need both the unskilled and the my skills figures for the same 2 reasons listed above.
Designing the Industry window Input requirements I'm sorry but the Input requirements aspect of the new Industry window is Monumental backwards step in comparison to the current table that we get on the Quote Window currently. In the demo screenshot, I do not recognise ANY of the icons.
The Heart of the window I was going to say that we need the name of the blueprint here, but you have the name of the blueprint to the right and down a bit.
Activity selection Please see above comment about remembering where the icons are vs actually knowing what they are.
Jobs tab Can we hide the Blueprint icon(it is useless) and change the Activity icon to text. I'm sure that then we will be able to fit more rows on screen at the same time, as it is currently I have to use the Entire screen to see my jobs and my Alts Finished jobs, let alone see all the jobs. (4 accounts, 3 toons per account, upto 11 Manufacturing jobs each, upto 11 research Jobs each, adds up to allot of jobs to manage.... And I'm sure that there are people that manage more toons than I do)
Filters States needs the existing Any Active State (or are these things that you can toggle on and off) cause I need to see In Progress, Pending and Ready, I don't care most of the time about Delivered and Offline.
Blueprints Tab No Filter for BPOs vs BPCs? Frankly if I'm looking to do some ME or PE research I need to only be looking at BPOs, but I'f I'm manufacturing under the new rules of blueprint must be in the location of manufacture then I am only going to want BPCs.
Installations Tab Public vs Corp owned? how do we filter this? Or at least do a Not Station Filter
ME & TE (formerly known as PE) Comments on hold pending "CCP Greyscale will go into more details in his blog regarding ME and TE."
Reverse Engineering and Invention Quality meter?? Invention Chance? or is this something to do with the ME/PE of the output BPC?
Optional inputs The Slash through the icon makes me think missing or broken or not in use. Optional you may have been better off using a question mark.
|
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:56:00 -
[122] - Quote
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage? This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable. Then the remote skill is truly a waste now. Before it was used to use a BPO from station in a pos, now that that single thing is taken away it will be impossible to do this currently as you will physically have to be at the pos to deliver or our on build jobs as everything we pretty much do in a CAA requires the size to be much larger. Once you deliver jobs and overfill the array, you have to empty it before you can do everything else, so again, you have to be at the pos, so remote skill is freaking USELESS
This has not changed from before, you need to have your materials in the assembly array already.
However I have poked CCP Ytterbium about whether we could increase their capacity anyway and he is going to take a look. However we can't make any promises on this. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
DoToo Foo
Weaponised FuGu
17
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:57:00 -
[123] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:probag Bear wrote:Will we be able to set installation and destination defaults in any way? For example: for invention, I always use Division 1 as input and Division 2 as output, for manufacturing it's 3 -> 4,... But it'd be even nicer if I could just set all Invention jobs to default to Divisions 1->2 once per character, and never have to bother with it again. It will remember between sessions.
What is the remembering based on. EG I have 3 different pilots, each with permission to exactly 1 different division. I have 3 BPO's, one owned by each pilot in their respective divisions.
Is the remembering based on:
- Specific BPO?
- combination of generic BPO and pilot?
- all instances of one BPO in a POS?
- Some other scenario?
|
Uncle Shrimpa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:58:00 -
[124] - Quote
It isn't being talked about but if you right click on a BPC will the options to perform ME and PE research no longer be available . Along with this the option to invention for BPO probably needs to go away as well.
I have listed 2 examples but there are many many more along these same lines. A Titan doesn't have a bridge to in the right click menu if it doesn't have a jump portal fitted, why can't this be the same? |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:00:00 -
[125] - Quote
Tippia wrote:mkint wrote:What's the deal with CCP's obsession with removing labels from icons, and forcing a hover over to actually get useful information? Build requirements as icons is stupid. No matter how familiar you are with the icons themselves, it will never ever ever be as fast as a glance at a written name. It is absolutely impossible to tell at a glance the material requirements without hovering over 11 different icons one at a time. That's called " worse." Even the name of what's being produced is tucked away at the bottom of the window after 4 different completely irrelevant images. Graphics heavy does not make something automatically better, and when a meaningless picture is substituted for useful text, it's automatically worse. +1 Include text labels for all materials, please. Remember how you had to go back on the pretty but nondescript weapon icons? Same goes here. Immediate recognition > pretty graphics.
Good point, we had a discussion about this today and are brainstorming some ideas to get a quick spreadsheets style shopping list. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:01:00 -
[126] - Quote
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:It isn't being talked about but if you right click on a BPC will the options to perform ME and PE research no longer be available . Along with this the option to invention for BPO probably needs to go away as well.
I have listed 2 examples but there are many many more along these same lines. A Titan doesn't have a bridge to in the right click menu if it doesn't have a jump portal fitted, why can't this be the same?
If you double click a blueprint it will open in the new Industry UI, after which you can pick the activity to perform. It will display which activities are available for this blueprint and which are not. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21369
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:01:00 -
[127] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Good point, we had a discussion about this today and are brainstorming some ideas to get a quick spreadsheets style shopping list. Thank you.
GǪand just to be annoying and demanding just when you've been forthcoming, when you say spreadsheet shopping lists, could you also brainstorm some ideas to get an GÇ£export to CSVGÇ¥ button in there? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Uncle Shrimpa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:02:00 -
[128] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage? This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable. Then the remote skill is truly a waste now. Before it was used to use a BPO from station in a pos, now that that single thing is taken away it will be impossible to do this currently as you will physically have to be at the pos to deliver or our on build jobs as everything we pretty much do in a CAA requires the size to be much larger. Once you deliver jobs and overfill the array, you have to empty it before you can do everything else, so again, you have to be at the pos, so remote skill is freaking USELESS This has not changed from before, you need to have your materials in the assembly array already. However I have poked CCP Ytterbium about whether we could increase their capacity anyway and he is going to take a look. However we can't make any promises on this.
As been noted several times, having minerals in the array isn't possible. I can only put on 100 cap components, 90 doomsday mounts or 70 jump bridge arrays per 1 mil m3 CAA.
Increasing size would help, but unless you can fit an entire titans worth of minerals it is still only a band aid and someone will have to go to the pos. I usually freighter minerals to pos and go thru 59 jobs and put the whole Titan in components in one shot. That means basically playing mineral Tetris for approx 50 jobs, which means someone has to be at the pos and the remote skill is again worthless for at least one pilot. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:04:00 -
[129] - Quote
Tippia wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Good point, we had a discussion about this today and are brainstorming some ideas to get a quick spreadsheets style shopping list. Thank you. GǪand just to be annoying and demanding just when you've been forthcoming, when you say spreadsheet shopping lists, could you also brainstorm some ideas to get an Gǣexport to CSVGǥ button in there?
Yeah we are discussing this, or a copy to clipboard + paste in excel option for example. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
Lena Lazair
Khanid Irregulars
102
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:16:00 -
[130] - Quote
Quote:Apart from being visually different than BPC (Blueprint Copy), a BPO (Blueprint Original) will have an infinite sign in the "Runs" column.
Does this mean BPO and BPC icons will be getting a more distinct visual look to differentiate them? Or is this just in the industry UI? |
|
Furoth
Black Avarice
23
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:19:00 -
[131] - Quote
It looks good. All the new visuals have a function in the UX so there won't be any moaning about wasted screen space. Thank god, and thank you. :)
A couple things worry me though. I saw a lot of mexallon in the screens but I didn't actually see the word "mexallon" anywhere. That's something people will find useful imho. Especially the new guys who are looking at the market window for the stuff they need.
The estimated profits and costs will be useless to most. Any serious industrialist wants to know their exact costs for whatever they are doing. Using a market average is pretty pointless since you may buy the items from market buy orders or contract a 'supplier' for more or less than market average. In the end, the estimate will be far off from the actual costs of production. Even then, are you selling to buy orders or putting them on the market yourself. Blueprints themselves also have a cost, especially if you invent. How many times did you fail and lose those decryptors and datacores. How much did it cost to make those 5 T2 BPCs. It all adds up. I would love to see an inventory screen of sorts that allows me to put a price figure on everything and then calculate manufacture cost from there. It also fails to include the cost of slot rentals or POS fuel costs. They matter and are sometimes the difference between profit and loss.
Teams is another thing that worries me but i'll hold off until the actual blog about them. I have a feeling it will be a new industry cost that will have to be worked into the numbers.
I've been saying unify POS modules for years. It's a real headache and that 2500m limit is still there too. Let's hope POS code is not too far off on the expansions list.
|
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
67
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:28:00 -
[132] - Quote
Based on looking at your final product for the manufacturing window:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/Industry_Window_VisualTarget2.png
I'm a little confused by one thing. The sections for all things time related.
In the middle of the screen, you have a start button. And inside that bar, on the far left, you have a "Total Time" of "2D 48:28:10". I'm guessing that the 2 days is there to just give you a quick and dirty guess at how long .... something is going to take. Since it's in the same bar as the start button, it makes me think that the job i'm about to start will take 2 days.
But then confusion sets in.
On the top right, you have "7D 00:00:03" under job duration. 7 days is 168 hours... so now my reality is starting to fall apart.
I want to assume that the 2 days time is for all jobs currently running, but under that we see that you only have 1 job, and it suspiciously starts and stops at the same time on April 7th.
So really, what I want to know is, what do these two times represent, and is there a better way to show the player that? Or am I completely daft, and I should just quit now? I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic.
Please, for the love of the whatever you hold dear, stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".-á It is "uh-bad-in" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abaddon |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2566
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:35:00 -
[133] - Quote
can you add spacing for the large numbers on the materials list so you can easier read them? 1 000 000 or 1.000.000 eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
648
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:37:00 -
[134] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:Based on looking at your final product for the manufacturing window: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/Industry_Window_VisualTarget2.pngI'm a little confused by one thing. The sections for all things time related. In the middle of the screen, you have a start button. And inside that bar, on the far left, you have a "Total Time" of "2D 48:28:10". I'm guessing that the 2 days is there to just give you a quick and dirty guess at how long .... something is going to take. Since it's in the same bar as the start button, it makes me think that the job i'm about to start will take 2 days. But then confusion sets in. On the top right, you have "7D 00:00:03" under job duration. 7 days is 168 hours... so now my reality is starting to fall apart. I want to assume that the 2 days time is for all jobs currently running, but under that we see that you only have 1 job, and it suspiciously starts and stops at the same time on April 7th. So really, what I want to know is, what do these two times represent, and is there a better way to show the player that? Or am I completely daft, and I should just quit now?
Good catch, it is just a last minute change to this concept and an oversight. There will only be 1 time and 1 cost shown. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
Shalene
WInexplicable Blackguard Mercenaries
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:41:00 -
[135] - Quote
Great stuff, except for the fact that the prototype ui is easier to read than the finished ui with all sorts of fancy but unecessary things in our face. |
ElectronHerd Askulf
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:42:00 -
[136] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go.
As long as I no longer end up with a bunch of Claw BPCs because I forgot to select 'Stiletto' on half the jobs of a batch, I'm happy. Well, that and not having to buy a new mouse because the left button wears out... |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
127
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:50:00 -
[137] - Quote
I can't really comment until I get a chance to use it. I have a difficult time visualizing what you are planning based on description I need to interact with it myself. So I can only really comment on stuff you've done similar to this.
I've been playing this game for years and don't really know what ISIS is. I've seen the icon and clicked on it once but was confused as to what the heck it was, what it was for or what it was intended to do. I'd love to say I'm not happy with it but honestly I don't even know what it is.
As far as changes to the info tab on other stuff (like ships and mods) just like what you did with your website you took something that was extremely functional and easy to understand and turned it into something very pretty and difficult. The new website is much prettier and exponentially more difficult to navigate. To this day there are things that I used to be able to find easily that I simply can not find at all. For the info tab I'll use ships as an example. I used to be able to click on the fitting tab and know exactly what I needed to know I would see numbers for slots and hard points etc... Now there are no longer numbers for hardpoints but instead dots so I have to count dots now to see if I can use all my high slots for weapons or what not when selecting a ship. Also I used to know what the base stats were now it's very confusing to understand if what I am looking at is raw stats or if my skills are figured in. This makes things very difficult since most of the time I'm looking at "show info" it's to help a noob so having my skill or current fitting mixed in with stuff only makes things more confusing and complicated.
All in all I've not been happy with the direction of development in recent years. You've trended towards dumbing things down and making it easier for noobs while at the same time making it more difficult and complicated for vets who know what to do but now have a more difficult time navigating the more complex aspects of things since they've all been streamlined for noobs.
I understand that you guys are chasing after 18 million WoW players and not 300K bitter old vets and these changes will likely facilitate that to some degree. I'll just put this in the category of more WoWification of Eve. |
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
78
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 15:54:00 -
[138] - Quote
For more complex manufacture jobs e.g. tech 2 ship I like to split my raw materials into buckets ( containers ). This is because the top level job usually also require sub jobs with their own materials to be manufactured first. - Tech 2 parts.
I break it all down into raw materials for the main job and all the sub jobs and add it all together using a spreadsheet. I then throw it all in it's own container whilst I work on it - do the sub jobs etc........ The own container is so that those materials are reserved and not available for me to do other things with whilst the jobs are in progress.
My question is - Will I be able to manufacture from that container in a station given that I am no longer at the root level? e.g. blueprint and all materials are in a container - can I manufacture directly from that container without tipping it all back into root please? What about in the future please? |
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:03:00 -
[139] - Quote
So far I really like what I see. The only thing I have thought of outside of what is already mentioned is that somewhere in the thread someone was asking about a way to possibly favorite jobs that are repeated often and I had an idea about it. (I tried to find the post to quote it but was unable to find it.)
I was wondering if it would be possible to make something for SnI that resembles the saved fittings window. Because for people that do so many different jobs or repeat jobs they would likely have trouble locating it in a 3 month window full of those different jobs. I think this might be a bit more efficient and if you do it in the same fashion you would be able to click and drag it to a chat box in game to show people what you are doing too. Maybe even make it available for import/export like fittings are for different external applications.
Just my thoughts. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
650
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:05:00 -
[140] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:Will I be able to manufacture from that container in a station given that I am no longer at the root level? e.g. blueprint and all materials are in a container - can I manufacture directly from that container without tipping it all back into root please?
Yes you can manufacture from a container provided all of your materials are in that container.
CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
|
TonoRocker
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:07:00 -
[141] - Quote
What about manufacturing using multiple BP at the same time, this would save tons of clicks. When you manufacturing Fuel blocks for example, i use 10BPC, it would be nice to select them all, ricght click, manufacture. ***Fairy dust***
Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles****
"Less clicks, more magic. " -TR 2014
Thanks.
|
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
650
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:09:00 -
[142] - Quote
TonoRocker wrote:What about manufacturing using multiple BP at the same time, this would save tons of clicks. When you manufacturing Fuel blocks for example, i use 10BPC, it would be nice to select them all, ricght click, manufacture. ***Fairy dust***
Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles****
"Less clicks, more magic. " -TR 2014
Thanks.
For now you will need 10 quick clicks, the interface can be used with the keyboard now so click down arrow, and then enter to submit. Down and submit. etc CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
Sylvanium Orlenard
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
47
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:15:00 -
[143] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:virm pasuul wrote:Will I be able to manufacture from that container in a station given that I am no longer at the root level? e.g. blueprint and all materials are in a container - can I manufacture directly from that container without tipping it all back into root please? Yes you can manufacture from a container provided all of your materials are in that container.
Will I be able to use Giant Secure Containers in a POS module like I would a Station container in an NPC Station? currently I can't because the unified Inventory doesn,t know how to look inside a container that is located inside a POS module, it's . . . . . frustrating. :( |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
910
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:20:00 -
[144] - Quote
And here we see WHY we will no longer be able to use BPOs that are safely locked down in corp hanger to research and manufacture at POS.
"The installation gets picked automatically when you select a blueprint. It will select the installation where the blueprint is located and use a default location for inputs."
So make one less click, like "select location", they choose a game breaking short-cut of the BPO has to be at the location... non-lcoked down.
So, we have to create high sec alt corps for protect our BPOs, then produce copies and ship them to null sec.... just becasue CCP didn't what to add a "pick location" to the new UI screen.
ARG! |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
650
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:21:00 -
[145] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:And here we see WHY we will no longer be able to use BPOs that are safely locked down in corp hanger to research and manufacture at POS.
"The installation gets picked automatically when you select a blueprint. It will select the installation where the blueprint is located and use a default location for inputs."
So make one less click, like "select location", they choose a game breaking short-cut of the BPO has to be at the location... non-lcoked down.
So, we have to create high sec alt corps for protect our BPOs, then produce copies and ship them to null sec.... just becasue CCP didn't what to add a "pick location" to the new UI screen.
ARG!
That's not why, but it is a nice side effect. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:21:00 -
[146] - Quote
^^ e: f; b :argh:
LHA Tarawa wrote:And here we see WHY we will no longer be able to use BPOs that are safely locked down in corp hanger to research and manufacture at POS.
"The installation gets picked automatically when you select a blueprint. It will select the installation where the blueprint is located and use a default location for inputs."
So make one less click, like "select location", they choose a game breaking short-cut of the BPO has to be at the location... non-lcoked down.
So, we have to create high sec alt corps for protect our BPOs, then produce copies and ship them to null sec.... just becasue CCP didn't what to add a "pick location" to the new UI screen.
ARG! No. The removal of remote BPO copying was to make you have to actually endure risk to enjoy the benefits of POS research. It wasn't a mechanical workaround. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
TonoRocker
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:25:00 -
[147] - Quote
Thanks for the quick reply, bu , any thoughts on this??
"Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles**** "
TR |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
910
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:25:00 -
[148] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote: That's not why, but it is a nice side effect.
So, what is the why? You dislike corps being able to make BPOs available for all players to sue, without risk of theft, because they are locked down in corproate hanger?
There is some "fun" aspect of the game that comes from us grinding out copies in 1-man alt-coprs to protect BPOs from corporate theft?
Was there really a meeting where someone said "Let's destroy BPO lockdow!" and someone else replied "YEAH!! It will make the game WAY more fun if industrialists have to create one-man alt corps to create copies to protect their BPOs from corp theft!"
Seriously? |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
124
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:30:00 -
[149] - Quote
lol the first blue print show, shows in the ship produced window a T2 MYRM... :) shouldn't that be a T1 Myrm? :) |
BlackTalon
BlackTalon Mining Corp
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:30:00 -
[150] - Quote
HMM nice one ccp all the time running an poss for research and copy gone down the pan . All the time players took to me or pe there bpo also been an waste . Doing cap bpo me or pe take months should off waited an few yrs for this patch to come out . The new ui for the bp is way over the top can i buy some head ache tablets in an station |
|
Sylvanium Orlenard
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
47
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:32:00 -
[151] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote: That's not why, but it is a nice side effect.
So, what is the why? You dislike corps being able to make BPOs available for all players to sue, without risk of theft, because they are locked down in corproate hanger? There is some "fun" aspect of the game that comes from us grinding out copies in 1-man alt-coprs to protect BPOs from corporate theft? Was there really a meeting where someone said "Let's destroy BPO lockdow!" and someone else replied "YEAH!! It will make the game WAY more fun if industrialists have to create one-man alt corps to create copies to protect their BPOs from corp theft!" Seriously?
Industry is currently one of the safest ISK making ventures you can do in EVE. With very few and relatively simple precautions you can currently make ISK hands over fist doing industry and not have to risk much if any of that ISK. (before you say station traders enjoy a risk free ISK making venture, well try doing a bad bet on your trading and see how fast your profits go down the drain :) )
CCP wants all ISK making activities to have an inherent amount of risk attached to it. In Industry they decided to create that risk by making blueprints have to be in the factory and not in some station under lock down.
Do I agree with it, NO, but I can understand why they would do that, even if I really really hate it. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:35:00 -
[152] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote: That's not why, but it is a nice side effect.
So, what is the why? You dislike corps being able to make BPOs available for all players to sue, without risk of theft, because they are locked down in corproate hanger? There is some "fun" aspect of the game that comes from us grinding out copies in 1-man alt-coprs to protect BPOs from corporate theft? Was there really a meeting where someone said "Let's destroy BPO lockdow!" and someone else replied "YEAH!! It will make the game WAY more fun if industrialists have to create one-man alt corps to create copies to protect their BPOs from corp theft!" Seriously? You can still lock down BPOs and use the infinitely available copy slots at a station to do exactly what you're doing now.
Alternatively, you should just not get into a situation where theft is a possibility. This may involve vetting potential recruits beyond the "paid attention to your ad in Recruitment." This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
911
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:36:00 -
[153] - Quote
Querns wrote: No. The removal of remote BPO copying was to make you have to actually endure risk to enjoy the benefits of POS research. It wasn't a mechanical workaround.
You clearly do not understand how industrialists operate.
RISK destroys profit potential.
We're not going to put tens or hundreds of billions of ISK worth of BPOs at risk. Not when the profit on a capital is maybe tens of millions. We have to build 1000 capitals to pay back the purchase price of BPOs. There is not room in that for the risk of BPOs being subjected to the irsk of corp theft becuase they can not be locked-down.
We will create an alt corp with large POS in high sec, with a gazillion hardeners, and a couple labs, and crank out the copies. Transport them to null in regular jump freighter runs, since the copies take up virtually no space.
It is not risk v. reward. It is goint pain in the donkey, for no game-play value.
Industrialists do NOT accept risk. We find ways around risk, usually by destroying profitability, which is why 70% of players stay in high sec. The stupid hoops we have to jump through to avoid attempts to force us to accept risk destroys profitability of doing anything else.
CCP admitted in the blog about this that NO ONE is going to be putting expensive BPOs into POS. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
439
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:37:00 -
[154] - Quote
Btw, where has the potential Profit part gone in your current final draft? That was something, which could really make the industry window a lot more informative about whether something is worth producing or not - without checking on 3rd party websites or personal spreadsheets. If would of course just give a rough value for the current region you produce in (which limits the usefulness if you don't produce in the region you want to sell your stuff in, naturally; unless you can set a specific sell place for the calculations), but at least you had an indicator on whether it's profitable at all or not. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:39:00 -
[155] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote: Industrialists do NOT accept risk.
No, you mean YOU don't accept risk. You should be prepared to be outcompeted by those who do. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21372
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:43:00 -
[156] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:RISK destroys profit potential. That's kind of the point. If you can afford the work-arounds, you can eliminate the risk; if you want the quick buck, you have to live with the risk.
Quote:Industrialists do NOT accept risk. Sure they do, in controlled doses. The point is that now there is an actual option where previously there were none. Whether or not people will use that option, and under what circumstances, remains to be seen. It's a bit premature to state what people will or won't do based solely on what they did when there was only one proper option available. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
439
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:46:00 -
[157] - Quote
Querns wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote: Industrialists do NOT accept risk.
No, you mean YOU don't accept risk. You should be prepared to be outcompeted by those who do.
Thanks to people like you it's not going to be too many.
--
Also, are we going to be limited to 20 copies per copy process or can we create more than 20 copies in one go? |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
911
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:50:00 -
[158] - Quote
Sylvanium Orlenard wrote:CCP wants all ISK making activities to have an inherent amount of risk attached to it. In Industry they decided to create that risk by making blueprints have to be in the factory and not in some station under lock down.
Do I agree with it, NO, but I can understand why they would do that, even if I really really hate it.
Then CCP is doomed to fail, because we do not accept risk. We accept lower profit to avoid risk, until the profit becomes too low, then we move back to high sec.
If CCP wants everyone in high sec, then they are on the right track. Just keep putting more hoops for null sec industrialists to have to jump though to stay safe.
This idea they can get us to accept significant risk is beyond ridiculous.
They need to stop listening to GOONS, have 3000 pilots online at any time. Their POV is NOT the POV of the other 30,000 pilots. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21372
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:52:00 -
[159] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Then CCP is doomed to fail, because we do not accept risk. You keep using that word. As long as you keep using it, you will be inherently wrong.
Top tip: stop saying GÇ£weGÇ¥ when you mean GÇ£IGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
913
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:53:00 -
[160] - Quote
Querns wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote: Industrialists do NOT accept risk.
No, you mean YOU don't accept risk. You should be prepared to be outcompeted by those who do.
So, join goonswarm where 3000 blues have your back, so I can oput compete those that don't have 3000 other players watching their back...
Spoken like a true goon.
CCP, seriously.... we're not all goons! Stop listening the their ideas that make the goons more profitable and drive everyone else out of the game.
This change to BPOs is just STUPID! |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21372
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:55:00 -
[161] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:This change to BPOs is just STUPID! BPOs don't change in the slightest.
GǪor, well, they become faster to copy, but that's more GÇ£handyGÇ¥ than GÇ£stupidGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Dorna Loone
Dark Star Demolition
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:59:00 -
[162] - Quote
Liking very much what I've seen so far. Having everything I need to select or press on a single window, however big it becomes, instead of having to press buttons to open yet more windows (like selecting the factory slot) is a huge step in the right direction |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
913
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:59:00 -
[163] - Quote
Tippia wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Then CCP is doomed to fail, because we do not accept risk. You keep using that word. As long as you keep using it, you will be inherently wrong. Top tip: stop saying GÇ£weGÇ¥ when you mean GÇ£IGÇ¥.
Then why did CCP, in the blog where they announced the change, admit that no one is going to be puttiing 100 million+ ISK BPOs into POS?
I can't imagine that they actually thought this through, including the risk of corp theft from not being able to lock-down, and the ramifications of the total annoyance that is going to come from alt-corps that do nothing other than make BPCs.
Whoooo hoooo... fun game. Log in the alt, start a bunch of copies. Take the copies out. Create cotrract.
Talk about extra mindless mouse clicks with no game-play value. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
913
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:00:00 -
[164] - Quote
Tippia wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:This change to BPOs is just STUPID! BPOs don't change in the slightest. GǪor, well, they become faster to copy, but that's more GǣhandyGǥ than GǣstupidGǥ.
Semantics.
Sorry... left out the word "effecting".
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21372
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:05:00 -
[165] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Then why did CCP, in the blog where they announced the change, admit that no one is going to be puttiing 100 million+ ISK BPOs into POS? Good news: there are other BPOs.
Quote:I can't imagine that they actually thought this through, including the risk of corp theft from not being able to lock-down, and the ramifications of the total annoyance that is going to come from alt-corps that do nothing other than make BPCs. Sounds like they thought it through fairly well: you can risk it or you can do the extra work. Two options as opposed to none. You have to choose which is worth more to you.
No. It's just sloppiness and bad argumentation on your part. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
TheButcherPete
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
417
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:05:00 -
[166] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Sylvanium Orlenard wrote:CCP wants all ISK making activities to have an inherent amount of risk attached to it. In Industry they decided to create that risk by making blueprints have to be in the factory and not in some station under lock down.
Do I agree with it, NO, but I can understand why they would do that, even if I really really hate it. Then CCP is doomed to fail, because we do not accept risk. We accept lower profit to avoid risk, until the profit becomes too low, then we move back to high sec. If CCP wants everyone in high sec, then they are on the right track. Just keep putting more hoops for null sec industrialists to have to jump though to stay safe. This idea they can get us to accept significant risk is beyond ridiculous. They need to stop listening to GOONS, have 3000 pilots online at any time. Their POV is NOT the POV of the other 30,000 pilots.
Please, post with your main.
Or did Dinsdale get banned, and subsequently drunk? That would explain your utterly terrible posting. THE KING OF EVE RADIO
ElQuirko is my son |
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
41
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:08:00 -
[167] - Quote
So....from the looks of it, i'll be able to see a maximum of 9 (NINE) blueprints at any given time on your attempt to push the Unified Inventory's "one window to replace them all" mentality. Is this correct?
If so, i ask that you re-think that idea, it just seems horrible.
Also, once this comes out on the test server, PLEASE for the love of all that is good in this world LISTEN to the ppl giving you feedback. Though i will not likely waste my time given that CCP basically said they didn't believe any of the players feedback for two whole months, about the Unified Inventory (more or less the same thing, but this is your attempt to do it with Industry). |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
150
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:11:00 -
[168] - Quote
At first glance the new UI seems more complicated and not user friendly. I will have to read it again a few times. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1344
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:12:00 -
[169] - Quote
Is there maybe an option to add minigame to the industry window, teams could be more efficient if you will point them many things as a overseer and in 10 minutes span you could take a look what they are doing and shout: "get back to work!" if they are drinking coffe or chatting.
Or maybe developing new, optimized code will be apropriate one time per job in the beginning. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
439
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:13:00 -
[170] - Quote
Tippia wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Then CCP is doomed to fail, because we do not accept risk. You keep using that word. As long as you keep using it, you will be inherently wrong. Top tip: stop saying GÇ£weGÇ¥ when you mean GÇ£IGÇ¥.
Expert tip: Don't try to put too many in the same pot by implying that your approach was any better than his. |
|
TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
222
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:14:00 -
[171] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Peter Powers wrote:ok, so now it is shiny and better looking and all, but uhm, it still seems to lack (or i did misread the post) one feature that i know me (and others) have been asking for in the past.
What about bulk-creating-jobs?
when i have 10 Scorch M BPC, then doing the same clicking (well i guess dragging now) etc 10 times is *extremly* annoying, so can we please have an option to clone jobs? can this dragging, clicking thing please be a template, and we can create 10 jobs without doing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?
regards, PP The idea is that the system will remember all settings for a blueprint, so if you set up 1 Scorch M BPC, all subsequent blueprints of this type will default to the last submitted job settings. So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go.
Maybe make a right click menu option to force this from the menu ;)... |
Tora Hamaji
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:15:00 -
[172] - Quote
As a t2 manufacturer I can say this is impressive progress from the current indy, however
You're missing some VERY important things:
- the ability to stack or batch run multiple BPCs of the same type.
- Queuing jobs up to 24 or 48 hours. (there is nothing like having to put new jobs every 1h 40 mins for those t2 small items)
- Seeing the total materials missing for components (think t2 bs construction. need 1k engines and 2k sensors, what are the total mats i am missing for those?)
- Saving Job Plans
- Make Job Plans updatable. (say you decide to build 3 kronos, over the next days you bought 1k sensors but acquired new t2 mats, what do you need now?)
- Automatic component job installation! This is something that you CCP said were interested in doing!
- Need more corp hangar divisions!
- New pos modules for large operations, with large numbers of slots.
- unified pos hangars, so that all facilities can be operated from 1 storage hangar instead of having to search through 20 labs for that BPC.
- Security issues for indy corps
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7092
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:17:00 -
[173] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote: Then CCP is doomed to fail, because we do not accept risk. We accept lower profit to avoid risk, until the profit becomes too low, then we move back to high sec.
i accept risk and i'm going to beat your brains out in whatever market i choose to as long as i can get rewarded for my risk-taking
now, i understand npc alts don't like risk but they're barely human Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Cheng Chai
Random Awesome Holding Corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:26:00 -
[174] - Quote
I don't like that you call 'Volume' what should be 'Quantity' on this one http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/Blueprints_ShowInfo_Industry.png
It is misleading. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
913
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:28:00 -
[175] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote: Then CCP is doomed to fail, because we do not accept risk. We accept lower profit to avoid risk, until the profit becomes too low, then we move back to high sec.
i accept risk and i'm going to beat your brains out in whatever market i choose to as long as i can get rewarded for my risk-taking now, i understand npc alts don't like risk but they're barely human
You hide too. You hide in goonswarm. Come out and try being in a ten man corp with 30 total toons.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21376
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:36:00 -
[176] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:You hide too. You hide in goonswarm. Come out and try being in a ten man corp with 30 total toons. 30? Blob moar. Also, post in the other thread since your whinging has nothing to do with the UI. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1331
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:37:00 -
[177] - Quote
on balance they look like nice changes, we might even see the cost of some T2 stuff falling which might be welcome. we'll have to wait and see I suppose, but the new user interfaces look serviceable, functional and fun, so well done CCP. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1437
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:38:00 -
[178] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Btw, where has the potential Profit part gone in your current final draft? That was something, which could really make the industry window a lot more informative about whether something is worth producing or not - without checking on 3rd party websites or personal spreadsheets. If would of course just give a rough value for the current region you produce in (which limits the usefulness if you don't produce in the region you want to sell your stuff in, naturally; unless you can set a specific sell place for the calculations), but at least you had an indicator on whether it's profitable at all or not. It would be awful nice not to require 3rd party spread sheets just to determine the production cost of something you're making. It'd make the system much more friendly to casual players "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart." -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
440
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:40:00 -
[179] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:on balance they look like nice changes, we might even see the cost of some T2 stuff falling which might be welcome. we'll have to wait and see I suppose, but the new user interfaces look serviceable, functional and fun, so well done CCP.
I hope they don't fall even further. It's already pointless to produce many HAC, Logi are hard, Cov Ops borderline and Command Ships completely pointless. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
659
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:42:00 -
[180] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Btw, where has the potential Profit part gone in your current final draft? That was something, which could really make the industry window a lot more informative about whether something is worth producing or not - without checking on 3rd party websites or personal spreadsheets. If would of course just give a rough value for the current region you produce in (which limits the usefulness if you don't produce in the region you want to sell your stuff in, naturally; unless you can set a specific sell place for the calculations), but at least you had an indicator on whether it's profitable at all or not. It would be awful nice not to require 3rd party spread sheets just to determine the production cost of something you're making. It'd make the system much more friendly to casual players
The plan is to move the estimated input cost into a tooltip.
We felt having multiple ISK values on the screen ran the risk of people accidentally assuming it was a cost that needed to be paid. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
|
Callisto Helix
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:44:00 -
[181] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage? This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable. Then the remote skill is truly a waste now. Before it was used to use a BPO from station in a pos, now that that single thing is taken away it will be impossible to do this currently as you will physically have to be at the pos to deliver or our on build jobs as everything we pretty much do in a CAA requires the size to be much larger. Once you deliver jobs and overfill the array, you have to empty it before you can do everything else, so again, you have to be at the pos, so remote skill is freaking USELESS This has not changed from before, you need to have your materials in the assembly array already. However I have poked CCP Ytterbium about whether we could increase their capacity anyway and he is going to take a look. However we can't make any promises on this.
If the assembly arrays are not able to have their capacities increased (or at least not to the point where it makes enough of a difference, would it be possible to have the industry UI allow some "smart dragging"? Here's what I have in mind:
Currently in order to make fuel blocks at a POS, I can only do ~500 run jobs because I can't fit enough materials into an ammo production array at the same time to do any more than that. As a result, I have to manually shift drag 7 different items and manually enter quantities between 500-200000 from the CHA to the assembly array. And I have to do that for each BPO/job. From how things are described currently, it doesn't sound like much will be changing regarding the number of clicking & dragging I have to do with the new UI.
So, if it's at all possible, allow me to drag and drop my entire stockpile of water & PI components from the corporate hangar on top of the industry UI once the BPO, array, runs, etc. are selected and just move the appropriate amount of materials into the assembly array. Short of being able to point it at a corp hangar for its materials (which you've already said isn't happening with this patch) it would remove a lot of headache for those of us that do all of our production at POS's (in my case wormhole industrialists). |
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
41
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:47:00 -
[182] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Work in progress mockup for Reverse Engineering and Invention activities visualization
Inputs: lots of stacks of Mexalon blueprint: BPO of a Skiff Something on the output side: Icon of large projectile ammo Outcome: Megatron Federate Issue
WTH??!?!?!?!
How is that even remotely helpful? |
Veldar Reku
Wu Xi Holdings
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:50:00 -
[183] - Quote
Questions:
Will this new interface remove the clickfest invention interface?
Will it be possible to simply drag&drop a BPC, press enter to have the job installed and industry window ready for next job?
|
Nasro Drags
Quinto Imperio
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:51:00 -
[184] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
The idea is that the system will remember all settings for a blueprint, so if you set up 1 Scorch M BPC, all subsequent blueprints of this type will default to the last submitted job settings.
So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go.
This seems to me like repetitive and meaningless clicking with 0 gameplay associated. A bot which auto clicks that submit button will be just as efficient as a person (clear sign of mindless clicking). Why not have the game itself do it for you?
It doesn't even need to have some batch installing which might be complex in the programming side... just auto repeat the last action until it can no longer be repeated (lack of slots or lack of skills). Some sort of checkbox to autorepeat would do the trick. |
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
98
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:52:00 -
[185] - Quote
Pretty UI. It looks like a great improvement over the current interface.
I only have one objection: Your use of blink and blink like effects as in the empty and unavailable states for blueprints. The human vision system react strongly to blink effects (is that a Tiger in the grass?) so blink should only be used when attention is absolutely needed here and now. A slot that is simply empty doesn't warrant that. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
440
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 17:57:00 -
[186] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Btw, where has the potential Profit part gone in your current final draft? That was something, which could really make the industry window a lot more informative about whether something is worth producing or not - without checking on 3rd party websites or personal spreadsheets. If would of course just give a rough value for the current region you produce in (which limits the usefulness if you don't produce in the region you want to sell your stuff in, naturally; unless you can set a specific sell place for the calculations), but at least you had an indicator on whether it's profitable at all or not. It would be awful nice not to require 3rd party spread sheets just to determine the production cost of something you're making. It'd make the system much more friendly to casual players The plan is to move the estimated input cost into a tooltip. We felt having multiple ISK values on the screen ran the risk of people accidentally assuming it was a cost that needed to be paid.
Well, in your current final draft it sure is awful to display several number values. But in your first wireframe picture it was absolutely clear what was cost and what was profit value. |
William Andersen
Andersen and Phelps Inc
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 18:13:00 -
[187] - Quote
This is great all of it, plus so many animated gifs :) |
Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 18:18:00 -
[188] - Quote
Huang Mo wrote:Pretty UI. It looks like a great improvement over the current interface.
I only have one objection: Your use of blink and blink like effects as in the empty and unavailable states for blueprints. The human vision system react strongly to blink effects (is that a Tiger in the grass?) so blink should only be used when attention is absolutely needed here and now. A slot that is simply empty doesn't warrant that.
Imho the same bad design as presented in the profession minigames... nobody needs animation/blink/effects in neither the minigames nor the industry UI. Save sparkles, shrink graphics down to an appropriate size, use text instead/besides of mats icons, and at least usability in general will benefit ;)
|
tiewan
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 18:18:00 -
[189] - Quote
Dear CCP,
Your proposal pleases me.
You may proceed. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
727
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 18:25:00 -
[190] - Quote
Don't like all the fancy graphics. Not my thing. But I'll geet used to it. Should I stick to industry.
It looks very touchable though. Make EVE useable on touch screens and you'll get my like, CCP. Remove insurance. |
|
Theng Hofses
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 18:30:00 -
[191] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:TonoRocker wrote:What about manufacturing using multiple BP at the same time, this would save tons of clicks. When you manufacturing Fuel blocks for example, i use 10BPC, it would be nice to select them all, ricght click, manufacture. ***Fairy dust***
Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles****
"Less clicks, more magic. " -TR 2014
Thanks. For now you will need 10 quick clicks, the interface can be used with the keyboard now so click down arrow, and then enter to submit. Down and submit. etc
Which is the hallmark of an inefficient design and sub-optimal execution. Why use a computer and programming when you can make a human do a repetitive job? |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7102
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 18:37:00 -
[192] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Weaselior wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote: Then CCP is doomed to fail, because we do not accept risk. We accept lower profit to avoid risk, until the profit becomes too low, then we move back to high sec.
i accept risk and i'm going to beat your brains out in whatever market i choose to as long as i can get rewarded for my risk-taking now, i understand npc alts don't like risk but they're barely human You hide too. You hide in goonswarm. Come out and try being in a ten man corp with 30 total toons. i put in the work to assist my alliance to its position of dominance and we risked amounts of isk beyond your comprehension getting there
we are reaping the rewards of that risk because we did not cower in highsec Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
|
CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
662
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 18:45:00 -
[193] - Quote
Theng Hofses wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:TonoRocker wrote:What about manufacturing using multiple BP at the same time, this would save tons of clicks. When you manufacturing Fuel blocks for example, i use 10BPC, it would be nice to select them all, ricght click, manufacture. ***Fairy dust***
Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles****
"Less clicks, more magic. " -TR 2014
Thanks. For now you will need 10 quick clicks, the interface can be used with the keyboard now so click down arrow, and then enter to submit. Down and submit. etc Which is the hallmark of an inefficient design and sub-optimal execution. Why use a computer and programming when you can make a human do a repetitive job?
We have some designs for how a batch system would work but it does add more complexity to the UI in order to explain what a batch is and whether or not you can submit it / how much it costs etc. We are going to see how efficient the UI can be without it and then re-assess if it is worth trying to add some additional helpers in for mass producers.
If the difference is 10 seconds vs 3 seconds to fill your characters quota of industry jobs though then I'm not as worried about the time it takes. It is still a significant improvement over the current UI.
This is not the last discussion we will have about this feature request though. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
|
|
CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
523
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 18:54:00 -
[194] - Quote
asteroidjas wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Work in progress mockup for Reverse Engineering and Invention activities visualization
Inputs: lots of stacks of Mexalon blueprint: BPO of a Skiff Something on the output side: Icon of large projectile ammo Outcome: Megatron Federate Issue WTH??!?!?!?! How is that even remotely helpful?
It's a mockup for the UI layout, all the content in it is in what we call "Lorem Ipsum" state CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Game Design Director -á|-á-áEVE Online -á|-á-á@CCP_Arrow |
|
|
CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
523
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 19:00:00 -
[195] - Quote
Veldar Reku wrote:Questions:
Will this new interface remove the clickfest invention interface?
Will it be possible to simply drag&drop a BPC, press enter to have the job installed and industry window ready for next job?
Yes CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Game Design Director -á|-á-áEVE Online -á|-á-á@CCP_Arrow |
|
Wellington Lamarr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 19:16:00 -
[196] - Quote
Very nice post, thank you!
Would it be possible to stack invention and reverse engineering jobs? It would be nice to be able to set up a few of them rather than re-visiting the industry interface every hour or two for 11 jobs. |
Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
86
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 19:18:00 -
[197] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:TonoRocker wrote:What about manufacturing using multiple BP at the same time, this would save tons of clicks. When you manufacturing Fuel blocks for example, i use 10BPC, it would be nice to select them all, ricght click, manufacture. ***Fairy dust***
Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles****
"Less clicks, more magic. " -TR 2014
Thanks. For now you will need 10 quick clicks, the interface can be used with the keyboard now so click down arrow, and then enter to submit. Down and submit. etc
If invention works the same way then I can check the biggest item off my "Summer update wish list"! |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3137
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 19:22:00 -
[198] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Btw, where has the potential Profit part gone in your current final draft? That was something, which could really make the industry window a lot more informative about whether something is worth producing or not - without checking on 3rd party websites or personal spreadsheets. If would of course just give a rough value for the current region you produce in (which limits the usefulness if you don't produce in the region you want to sell your stuff in, naturally; unless you can set a specific sell place for the calculations), but at least you had an indicator on whether it's profitable at all or not. It would be awful nice not to require 3rd party spread sheets just to determine the production cost of something you're making. It'd make the system much more friendly to casual players
While I'm one of the people who make those 3rd party sheets, I agree with this completely.
Basic tasks shouldn't require 3rd party tools.
Now, building your shopping lists etc, that's where they should come into play.
(Yes, basic ship fitting, with your current skills, should be able to be simulated in Eve, without needing to buy anything.) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1030
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:29:00 -
[199] - Quote
I don't understand this section:
Quote:The quality meter around blueprints that are being reverse engineered or invented will determine the potential quality of the outcome. The % value will go up if the player adds optional input items or trains skills that affect the job. Are there going to be new invention skills to improve T2 BPC quality?
Also, I thought invention was being left until a later release. Is invention UI being changed now? Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Madfranco
Eightfold Arrow Bounty Hunter Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:33:00 -
[200] - Quote
As many may have already said in the thread i would like to ask to postpone some "blingin''" of they UI and give higher priority to a batching sistem that allows us to use multiple BPCs with the same ME/TE; and a batching sistem for invention (Hint: Look at the current copy method, do it for 20 times in a row as long as i frontload all materials).
This would solve the problems of the 5 max run capital parts BPCs in one go too
I apllaude you from reducing the clicking and the time needed to do a ripetitive task, fact is, i still have to log every hour or so to do so.
That doesn't create interaction, doesn't create content, it forces me to "fight" versus the UI, which is what you are trying to resolve with this expansion.
Given the fact that this rehaul will be done now and then it won't be done for years, let's do it good once and for all |
|
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1030
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:36:00 -
[201] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:TonoRocker wrote:What about manufacturing using multiple BP at the same time, this would save tons of clicks. When you manufacturing Fuel blocks for example, i use 10BPC, it would be nice to select them all, ricght click, manufacture. ***Fairy dust***
Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles****
"Less clicks, more magic. " -TR 2014
Thanks. For now you will need 10 quick clicks, the interface can be used with the keyboard now so click down arrow, and then enter to submit. Down and submit. etc Need to play with this. My top priority was batch jobs. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3527
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:47:00 -
[202] - Quote
Don't know if already spotted: UI inconsistency
Material Level Research ME (should be ML)
Productivity Level Research TE (should be PL)
Time including seconds would be appreciated. "Less than one minute" is totally useless in spreadsheets. Even keeping abbreviations isn't unreasonable: 47d 15h 32m 5s |
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
41
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:54:00 -
[203] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:asteroidjas wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Work in progress mockup for Reverse Engineering and Invention activities visualization
Inputs: lots of stacks of Mexalon blueprint: BPO of a Skiff Something on the output side: Icon of large projectile ammo Outcome: Megatron Federate Issue WTH??!?!?!?! How is that even remotely helpful? It's a mockup for the UI layout, all the content in it is in what we call " Lorem Ipsum" state So how is it helpful in this state? Other than to say "hey look at this shiney and tell us you think its shiney!"
And you couldn't take the 2 minutes to simply place the correct TYPES of items the propper places to even remotely resemble either invention or reverse eng? This is why some ppl don't bother to give you feedback anymore, you half $%& the job, then mock the players that ask wth it is supposed to be. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1473
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:58:00 -
[204] - Quote
Looks well done. I like the invention chance for success stuff. Other stuff seems like it will make it easier on new players. Vets I'm not so sure. I really need to play with it to see if I'll like it. I hope you work in enough time for people to test it out. Stuff like changing refining rates and such are usually not an issue for feed back - either it's good or it's not. This might be a bit more involved. GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1030
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:19:00 -
[205] - Quote
asteroidjas wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:asteroidjas wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Work in progress mockup for Reverse Engineering and Invention activities visualization
Inputs: lots of stacks of Mexalon blueprint: BPO of a Skiff Something on the output side: Icon of large projectile ammo Outcome: Megatron Federate Issue WTH??!?!?!?! How is that even remotely helpful? It's a mockup for the UI layout, all the content in it is in what we call " Lorem Ipsum" state So how is it helpful in this state? Other than to say "hey look at this shiney and tell us you think its shiney!" And you couldn't take the 2 minutes to simply place the correct TYPES of items the propper places to even remotely resemble either invention or reverse eng? This is why some ppl don't bother to give you feedback anymore, you half $%& the job, then mock the players that ask wth it is supposed to be. Calm down. You are making a fool of yourself. Lorum ipsum is helpful since people concentrate on the interface design rather than the data content. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
449
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:27:00 -
[206] - Quote
I am guessing that you are filling in all the labels that you are missing later right?
On this http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/Industry_Window_VisualTarget2.png how many items of what exactly are you actually missing? Is that supposed to be shown in roll over? Why?
what is that icon above the ship?
Showing us two images of the ship *the bp image and the finished product is nice i guess, but you are wasting space and bloating the window
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/Indicators2.png do not use this ever.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/Blueprint_Control_UI_A.png this is also garbage. Do not pretend that adding graphics and removing text is better in any way. requiring a memorization of graphics which replace properly named items and figures necessary to perform the task does not simplify the task.
and what the **** is that touchmark? it seems you surveyed people that dont actually play but have heard about it from you. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
|
CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
525
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:38:00 -
[207] - Quote
asteroidjas wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:asteroidjas wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Work in progress mockup for Reverse Engineering and Invention activities visualization
Inputs: lots of stacks of Mexalon blueprint: BPO of a Skiff Something on the output side: Icon of large projectile ammo Outcome: Megatron Federate Issue WTH??!?!?!?! How is that even remotely helpful? It's a mockup for the UI layout, all the content in it is in what we call " Lorem Ipsum" state So how is it helpful in this state? Other than to say "hey look at this shiney and tell us you think its shiney!" And you couldn't take the 2 minutes to simply place the correct TYPES of items the propper places to even remotely resemble either invention or reverse eng? This is why some ppl don't bother to give you feedback anymore, you half $%& the job, then mock the players that ask wth it is supposed to be.
Thank you, we will make sure to spend more time on having accurate information in the content within our mockups in the future. This mockup was mainly used to define layout and show what UI elements are different between Reverse Engineering and other activities. The client screenshots had more accurate content in them. CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Game Design Director -á|-á-áEVE Online -á|-á-á@CCP_Arrow |
|
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
914
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:44:00 -
[208] - Quote
CCP, you may want to look at skill requirements for copy, and then make sure it can't be done on trial account.
The 50,000 one-person alt accounts setting up POSed in his sec for copying BPOs because of the stupid change to not being able to use a POS to manufacture from a locked down BPO will be abusing the HECK out of trial accounts to crank out copies.
Oh my gawd the monotony opf having to log into alt after alt after alt after alt, just to deliver and start copy jobs.... You have created hell in EVE.
Good job CCP. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1132
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:59:00 -
[209] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:asteroidjas wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:asteroidjas wrote:CCP Arrow wrote:Work in progress mockup for Reverse Engineering and Invention activities visualization
Inputs: lots of stacks of Mexalon blueprint: BPO of a Skiff Something on the output side: Icon of large projectile ammo Outcome: Megatron Federate Issue WTH??!?!?!?! How is that even remotely helpful? It's a mockup for the UI layout, all the content in it is in what we call " Lorem Ipsum" state So how is it helpful in this state? Other than to say "hey look at this shiney and tell us you think its shiney!" And you couldn't take the 2 minutes to simply place the correct TYPES of items the propper places to even remotely resemble either invention or reverse eng? This is why some ppl don't bother to give you feedback anymore, you half $%& the job, then mock the players that ask wth it is supposed to be. Thank you, we will make sure to spend more time on having accurate information in the content within our mockups in the future. This mockup was mainly used to define layout and show what UI elements are different between Reverse Engineering and other activities. The client screenshots had more accurate content in them.
I admire your patience with that kind of people
To give the opposite perspective, I can confirm that having accurate information on mockups is irrelevant for my ability to give feedback.
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
|
Sheeana Harb
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:11:00 -
[210] - Quote
I've read the whole Industry UI blog twice (smiling both times) and I would like to say: THANK YOU!! As someone heavily engaged in the industry (altough not so much recently) I can't express enough how happy I'm to see all those changes.
I would also like to provide a bit of feedback (and my apologies if it has been mentioned here already):
1) In the main Industry window, when doing a job that requires materials, would it be possible to show somewhere how many units of given material are present in the job location, even if I have enough already?
Example: I'm making one ship(from a one-run BPC) that requires 100 Mexallon. I have a total of 300 Mexallon present in the location of the future job. I would like to see that information of 300 Mexallon somewhere in the UI without going to the assets tab.
Why? This is important for inventions, when I'm using 10 BPC, each with 3 runs. The new UI(and the old one as well) will tell me whether or not I have enough to make 3 runs. But I need to know if I have enough materials to make 30 runs (10x3). I hope I explained that clearly.
2) In the jobs tab I would like to see a bar for each undelivered job what would indicate how far through the process of making the job is. Right now I have to look up the time and do the calculation. A bar would provide clear indication if the job is 20% or 50% or 80% done. The closest example of the bar I'm imagining is the skill training one in the Neocom. |
|
Geezelbub
Barely Illegal
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:18:00 -
[211] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
We felt having multiple ISK values on the screen ran the risk of people accidentally assuming it was a cost that needed to be paid.
Have them make the check out to me, if they are that dumb.
Boy are we gonna get a whole new slew of "plex fueled industrialists" with this one.
I look forward to selling LOTS of stuff for 100's of times it's real worth.
BTW, this is from a guy who has sold about TEN (10) racial ship data interfaces for over 250M EACH to "plex fueled industrialists" over the last six months.
I never payed over 3m for any of them |
buck herrick
SS-20
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:36:00 -
[212] - Quote
loving what I have seen so far.
8/10. keep up the good work. |
Susan Black
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
123
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 01:08:00 -
[213] - Quote
This is a really nit picky thing, but in the 'Industry' tab of blueprints, could you display commas or breakup large numbers in group of three digits so it's easier to read?
For example 2850000 would become 2 850 000 making it a little more obvious at a quick glance. www.gamerchick.net @gamerchick42 |
Barune Darkor
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 01:09:00 -
[214] - Quote
The UI should allow you to pull materials from a corporate hanger array anchored at a pos to install a job in an assebly line anchored at the same pos. Better to use your hanger divisions to supply your manufactureres than to constantly move materials around to different assembly lines. |
Susan Black
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
124
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 01:30:00 -
[215] - Quote
Also,
There are a large number of blueprints that are always copies, and always 1 run, such as SFI BPCs you purchase from LP stores, among other BPCs.
Is there ANY way to make it so we can sell these on the market instead of on contracts?
Thanks www.gamerchick.net @gamerchick42 |
Lena Lazair
Khanid Irregulars
102
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 01:33:00 -
[216] - Quote
Susan Black wrote:Also,
There are a large number of blueprints that are always copies, and always 1 run, such as SFI BPCs you purchase from LP stores, among other BPCs.
Is there ANY way to make it so we can sell these on the market instead of on contracts?
Thanks
Yes please! This suggestion was also made over on the "ideas to improve the contract UI" feedback thread but +1 to wherever I see it. |
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10272
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 01:40:00 -
[217] - Quote
WTB "Megatron Federate Issue" If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg |
Geezelbub
Barely Illegal
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 01:50:00 -
[218] - Quote
Made from Mexallon. I mean it's bad ass stuff.
Don't worry, they'll fix it after all the input on SISI...oh wait
<Insert GIANT rolling ROFL smiley here |
Geezelbub
Barely Illegal
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 01:55:00 -
[219] - Quote
Susan Black wrote:Also,
There are a large number of blueprints that are always copies, and always 1 run, such as SFI BPCs you purchase from LP stores, among other BPCs.
Is there ANY way to make it so we can sell these on the market instead of on contracts?
Thanks
And that's tonite's brilliant comment on the new industrial GAME CHANGING UI from the FW inteilligensia. |
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
395
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 01:57:00 -
[220] - Quote
Please add a glyph or tag on icons whenever you have a perfect blueprint now that such a thing exists. This will make it a bit easier to see what blueprints still require research from the inventory screen.
Please make it so that either:
a) I can see ME/TE for blueprints from inventory b) I can move things from an ME/TE view of industry.
Currently my problem is that I have a view to move blueprints and a view to see the details of blueprints at a glance, but not anything to do both.
Please add item filters to the inventory screen that allow us to specify if a blueprint is a BPO or a BPC. ME and TE filters would be nice as well.
Also I concur that we're going to need something to indicate how much we're short on things when we go to manufacture. |
|
Lena Lazair
Khanid Irregulars
102
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 02:35:00 -
[221] - Quote
Geezelbub wrote:And that's tonite's brilliant comment on the new industrial GAME CHANGING UI from the FW inteilligensia. edit: I mean this create contract stuff is hard!!!!
So I assume you ranted against putting pirate ships in the market for fear of dumbing down the game too? And railed against having officer mods in there? And faction ammo?
Seriously dude.
|
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
395
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 02:54:00 -
[222] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Weaselior wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage? This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable. :argh: you don't know how irritating it is trying to fit the exact right proportion of minerals in a component assembly array to let you get a nice 100-run component job, you've got to move each mineral individually and it is a pain in the ass please to be increasing the capacity of the component assembly array to get around that tia GǪor, even better, make POSes work as a cohesive unit with a single storage capacity comprised of all the modules activated at the POS. Same with all other capabilities you can attach to it. Ok, so slots are going away, but let's use them as an example anyway: instead of getting a separate lab with 3 ME slots at 25k m-¦, we should simply get +3 slots and +25k to what's already there so that the POS, as a single installation, now has (say) 12 slots at a total storage space of 475k.
I, generally, like this idea, but they're going to have to figure out what gets dropped when you blow up something that represents part of the whole.
So I can blow up your Lab, but if all it did was add capacity, what actually gets dropped? This is the fundamental issue. POSes are built up and I can look at their space as an abstraction and even move stuff around in that abstraction, but they're not blown up as an abstraction. |
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
395
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 03:39:00 -
[223] - Quote
Huang Mo wrote:Pretty UI. It looks like a great improvement over the current interface.
I only have one objection: Your use of blink and blink like effects as in the empty and unavailable states for blueprints. The human vision system react strongly to blink effects (is that a Tiger in the grass?) so blink should only be used when attention is absolutely needed here and now. A slot that is simply empty doesn't warrant that.
I agree with this point from a UX perspective, but they can be useful if they don't repeat, bringing attention to the fact that they are necessary. But once they don't repeat, it's perfectly find to have infrequent animation -- say 3 repetitions. |
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
395
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 03:42:00 -
[224] - Quote
Theng Hofses wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:TonoRocker wrote:What about manufacturing using multiple BP at the same time, this would save tons of clicks. When you manufacturing Fuel blocks for example, i use 10BPC, it would be nice to select them all, ricght click, manufacture. ***Fairy dust***
Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles****
"Less clicks, more magic. " -TR 2014
Thanks. For now you will need 10 quick clicks, the interface can be used with the keyboard now so click down arrow, and then enter to submit. Down and submit. etc Which is the hallmark of an inefficient design and sub-optimal execution. Why use a computer and programming when you can make a human do a repetitive job?
However, it must be said that not everyone does things repetitiously and selective repeatability is actually very useful to a subset of the industry population. This feels like a good compromise UI where people who want batch don't quite get it, but clicks are reduced. And people for whom batch wasn't that useful will still get easily repeatable jobs. |
Midori Tsu
Evolution Northern Coalition.
128
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 04:13:00 -
[225] - Quote
Thanks for listening to my concerns over the icons vs. spreadsheet. |
Jagoff Haverford
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
141
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 05:30:00 -
[226] - Quote
A very minor point, but when listing materials could you please add in the commas that appear every three digits. As an old guy whose eyes aren't what they once were, I'm kind of sick of leaning in, putting my face inches away from the screen, and counting the digits aloud to see if the number needed is 4,150,000 or 41,500,000. I've actually been known to get it really wrong, and read it as 415,000,000.
Please? Can we have commas? |
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
396
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 05:35:00 -
[227] - Quote
I'm a little surprised to see so little reaction to this blog post here.
That said, I have some feedback and questions.
1) Will it be possible to expand the window vertically to allow for more items in the grid at the bottom of the screen?
2) Please make it possible to build from POS personal hangars once you do your POS rework if such a concept still exists.
3) As said before, please ensure it's possible to differentiate between different items in the new UI using their actual names without having to hover. I should not have to guess what each
4) Since you aren't handling invention and reverse engineering during Summer what will happen to the existing S&I interface?
5) At some point are icons for existing products going to be considered for revamp? Are we ever going to get higher resolution icons or glyphs? I still have trouble with Megacyte and Noxcium at a glance.
6) Are you going to be changing the S&I icon while you're at it to bring it in line with the new look (something closer to ISIS)?
7) It would be nice to be able to right-click on a required component that is manufacturable and find its relevant blueprints in the view below.
8) It would also be nice to be able to right-click on an item in that view and select "find in assets" where it would open up the assets screen and select that as the search text. (Frankly, though, that would be good everywhere).
9) Are we going to be able to easily tell what is affected by increased costs and what isn't? Or is it possible with a -100% blueprint to actually need two input ships for a T2 blueprint?
10) How is rounding of inputs from blueprint quality going to be handled? Down, Up, Off?
11) Since we can put blueprints from the market (and possibly) other places will it be possible to adjust the ME/TE as planning tool to see it will affect the result?
12) How are profitability numbers going to be calculated?
13) The different mock-ups and code-in-progress screens have different placement for the job cost and time. Where are they going to end up?
14) Would it be possible to put the input group glyphs on top of the actual items in question in the various views that don't have them? I would love to be able to know what kind of item it is at a glance without having to look at the market. Here it would be redundant, but in the unified inventory it would be a god-send.
15) It seems somewhat counter intuitive that I was to un-fill the missing materials only to have the required materials fill completely when all pre-requisites are met. It makes a little more sense if it's always progressing towards a full circle and the center icon changes once you finally get everything you need. You already have visual input on the left as to what's missing. I'm going to want to fill the thing, not un-fill it.
16) I really like the big "START" button. More so than, what I'm guessing are WIP screenshots that have "Start production". In fact that whole bar in the visual target is much better than the one in the WIP screenshots (i.e. blueprints and installations). I'm especially concerned over the size of the buttons in the center.
Thank you for all your work on this. While I wasn't technically un-subbed, these changes are likely going to get me playing again. And for that, I'm very grateful. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
443
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 05:37:00 -
[228] - Quote
What will we see in the big preview window in case we build ammo (projectile or laser) or T2 components (Fernite armor plates or Laser Focusing crystals, for example), or other things that don't have a 3D model? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21399
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 06:18:00 -
[229] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:So I can blow up your Lab, but if all it did was add capacity, what actually gets dropped? This is the fundamental issue. POSes are built up and I can look at their space as an abstraction and even move stuff around in that abstraction, but they're not blown up as an abstraction. That's true enough. On the other hand, since drops are already chance-based, it's not entirely inconceivable to just expand on that and make storage usage a part of the drop/destroyed calculation.
E.g. when a module is destroyed, it is [volume lost] / [total volume] chance that any given item stack was considered to be inside that module. If it was, do a standard drop/destroy die roll.
The biggest problem then rather becomes to keep track of what counts as GÇ£total volumeGÇ¥ GÇö specialist containers such as ship hangars should perhaps not count towards the total for standard item storage, since a XLSMA would be able to save pretty much all the blueprints in the game that way in spite of not allowing blueprints to be stored there. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Dirty Wrench
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 06:22:00 -
[230] - Quote
I'd look carefuly at this part....
"When you first drag a blueprint in, the job runs will automatically go up to the maximum amount you can do based on the amount of required items you have"
Just because I have enough tri/pye/mex/iso/noc/zyd/meg in my hanger to make 20,000,000,000 x 125 mm railgun I doesn't mean I actually want to make that many.
The default number of runs shouldn't be based on the "raw materials" I have sitting in my personal hanger. After all just about everything sits in my personal hanger !
I see a lot of excess items being made if the default value is simply based on how much raw stuff you have sitting in a hanger.
People won't check the number of runs they're about to pump out and will "waste" a lot of minerals. |
|
zahter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 06:45:00 -
[231] - Quote
CCP, thanks for the new UI and new industry rewamp in general. I areally appreciate the nice work you showed us. It is really promissing. However I have some fears about increased click/drags rather than a decrease.
You have a reasonable idea about increasing risk of loss by forcing us put blueprints in pos. I can understand that. But when we have to work with blueprints in pos we have to work with different assembly arrays and labs. If we want to work on a blueprint, all the required mats should be in the same container. Thats a very huge difference between station and a pos.
Old system; blueprints are in station corp hangar. right click, copy, select pos lab in the same system. accept job. When job finished, warp to pos, take copies, bring them back to station and put in corp hangars respective division. right click, select invention, select pos lab, accept. Why do I need to bring copy back to station, because I want to use all slots of my pos labs not just the one i finished the copy in. When invention job is finished, i go to my pos, collect t2 copies, bring back to station, and start manufacturing from corp hangar. I have to use 3 different pos arrays for manufacturing a t2 module starting from a t1 bpo. Multiply this process with 20 different modules. Every time I go to pos, I am checking labs and taking T1/T2 copies from all pos labs, bringing them to station. So i can work from a single hangar and reach my all my pos facilities.
New system; (based on what i understood and what I read on ccp replies to feedbacks) I put bpo into pos lab, open new UI and start cop job. When job is finished, I take copies and have to distribute them to other pos labs. Why do i need to distribute? Because bluerpints should be present in those labs when i start invention jobs. I already distributed mats before, when i planned my monthly production cycle. Everytime a copy job finished, I have to distribute copies again. Multiply this with 20 different modules I want to produce. I have 400 copies to distribute to my labs. After lots of drag/drops I finished the task and started inventions with much faster new UI. After 1 hour the first batch of invention jobs finished, lets assume I had %50 chance and 20 jobs available with my characters. I will have 10 t2 bpc in pos labs, I collect them and distribute them to my assembly arrays. Because bpc should present in assembly array to start the job. May be I am too lazy, wait for all 400 invention jobs finished and then collect them. Then I will have 200 t2 bpc to distribute, 10 for each item. I have to drag/drop bpc for a long time to make sure everything is in right place then I start my new UI.
The new UI is great if you are using only station. You can easily select, input/output hangar divisions, fast work very fewer clicks. If you are using pos for your industry, you have to distribute bpc/bpo to every array you want to work. You have to do it after every job is finished. You can wait for all those jobs finished but a monster total number of drags/drop trask is waiting for you. We are used to this type of task when we are distributing mats to lab and assembly arrays at the start of our production plans. I make montly plans so, I only have to stand this tidious distribution task once a month. New system forces me to do it every day if I want to continue production.
The main problem is we will not be able to start job if req mats is in a different pos array than bpc. Unified pos inventory will not be possible in any foreseeable future. Also, there is no reply if we will be able to link pos arrays. If the new system come as it is shown, more tidious tasks waiting for us. |
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Curatores Veritatis Alliance
156
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 08:05:00 -
[232] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:
The system will automatically go to the max runs supported by the blueprint if you have enough requirements, or go up to the amount it can handle with the requirements you have.
And for BPOs this will be the amount that the material stock allows, right? BPOs do not have run limits, just a limit on the maxruns for copies. Please clarifiy this, this is very crucial for us. There are stuff like the nanite paste, which's BP has a maxruns of 15, but it's usually manufactured in thousands of runs. If you don't see the problem yourself, please start manufacturing around 10K runs of paste weekly, and you'll see :)
|
Dirty Wrench
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 08:19:00 -
[233] - Quote
I think they might be introducing a max runs for manufacturing on a BPO.
I vaguely remember reading something like this somewhere but there's been a lot of things posted and it gets blurry. |
Shamus en Divalone
Dip Dip Potatoe Chip
18
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 08:24:00 -
[234] - Quote
Looks really good so far but can I ask again if there is going to be a way of copying a list of required mats to clipboard?
To reduce the time i spend writing stuff down or using out of game tools?
Thx |
Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 08:32:00 -
[235] - Quote
Barune Darkor wrote:The UI should allow you to pull materials from a corporate hanger array anchored at a pos to install a job in an assembly line anchored at the same pos. Better to use your hanger divisions to supply your manufactureres than to constantly move materials around to different assembly lines.
Quoted to emphasize the dire need of this feature. CCP, make it happen! Dropping the ability to use a BP located at a station remotely is fine, as long as we get something to make up for the crappy array/lab design. And don't start with simply increasing storage space of those modules, it doesn't solve the core issue! As mentioned before and pointed out by others, reaction modules and silos can already be "linked". Do the same with all consuming modules, even if it requires messing with the awful POS code. Manufacturers across new eden will be thankful for eternity ;)
Again, to clarify my point: Unifying module storage in a POS into one big pool is not possible as stated by devs in this thread. Well, not before the POS code gets completely reworked, at least. BUT me, myself, and probably a few thousands other POS users DO want to dump all BPCs/mats/comps/stuff/datacores/decs etc. into one corp hangar and manage/start jobs from there. And honestly this is such fundamental a feature that it should have been implemented from day 1 of POS introduction ^^
|
|
CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
531
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 10:42:00 -
[236] - Quote
Thank you all for your feedback, I am collecting everything into a list which the team will look at and give input on regarding solutions and iterations. I will report back with the results but it might have to be after Fanfest though. CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Game Design Director -á|-á-áEVE Online -á|-á-á@CCP_Arrow |
|
SpacePhenix
KnownUnknown
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 12:16:00 -
[237] - Quote
Issues with removing produce from station at posGǪ!!! There are some pos issues that have to be addressed before you can remove produce from station at pos.
Nr 1. In a wardec situation you have to remove all blueprints at pos = cansel jobs. Cancel jobs at labs/assembly array/reactor has to give your spent materials back and time stamp on canceled jobs must be reset during cancel not unancoring and ancoring structures like it is today. Also at the time you spent up until the cancel have to be given back. If this is not possible, production will dye all together. A producer needs to be able to secure his blueprints to have a chance of making a profitable production. If production is not profitable there is no reason to do production.
Nr 2. If you remove the produce from station at pos feature. The whole idea of having a corp office dyes completely. There is absolutely no idea of spending x amount of isk a month of having a corp office if you remove that feature.
Like I have mentioned before and will mention again. CCP you need to start playing eve along with the rest of us to have any idea of what we have to deal with in the GÇ£real EVEGÇ¥. It doesnGÇÖt help sitting on a protected server handing out the skills needed and testing out stuff when the GÇ£real EVEGÇ¥ demands a lot more. And remember to make enough isk for a plex each month for each charr. |
Miyama Okanata
Black Arc Systems
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 12:28:00 -
[238] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
We have some designs for how a batch system would work but it does add more complexity to the UI in order to explain what a batch is and whether or not you can submit it / how much it costs etc. We are going to see how efficient the UI can be without it and then re-assess if it is worth trying to add some additional helpers in for mass producers.
If the difference is 10 seconds vs 3 seconds to fill your characters quota of industry jobs though then I'm not as worried about the time it takes. It is still a significant improvement over the current UI.
This is not the last discussion we will have about this feature request though.
I think you misunderstand the issue here. I'll explain on the example of Warrior IIs. One run of invention takes 2 hours and produces a 10-run Warrior II BPC. Having 10 lines available and roughly 50% chance means I will have something like 5 BPCs x 10 = 50 drones produced from these. And each 2 hours I will have to login again and start another invention run. In the meantime when I'll have 10 T2 BPCs available, I'll start a 10 lines production run. That will take 4 hr 26 min. And after that time I will have to login again and start another production run. This gives me 100 Warrior IIs per 4hr 26min. Subtracting 8 hours for sleep, I can make 3-4 runs total. 400 of these will literally sell in seconds on Jita and I will receive ~60mil isk total. That is not mass production at all!
The key issue here is having to login every 2hrs to start another invention run and every 4hr 26min to start another production run. The light drones have good profit and I would do it if not for this constant logging in to start another run. |
Audrey Koshka
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
13
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 19:42:00 -
[239] - Quote
Miyama Okanata wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:
We have some designs for how a batch system would work but it does add more complexity to the UI in order to explain what a batch is and whether or not you can submit it / how much it costs etc. We are going to see how efficient the UI can be without it and then re-assess if it is worth trying to add some additional helpers in for mass producers.
If the difference is 10 seconds vs 3 seconds to fill your characters quota of industry jobs though then I'm not as worried about the time it takes. It is still a significant improvement over the current UI.
This is not the last discussion we will have about this feature request though.
I think you misunderstand the issue here. I'll explain on the example of Warrior IIs. One run of invention takes 2 hours and produces a 10-run Warrior II BPC. Having 10 lines available and roughly 50% chance means I will have something like 5 BPCs x 10 = 50 drones produced from these. And each 2 hours I will have to login again and start another invention run. In the meantime when I'll have 10 T2 BPCs available, I'll start a 10 lines production run. That will take 4 hr 26 min. And after that time I will have to login again and start another production run. This gives me 100 Warrior IIs per 4hr 26min. Subtracting 8 hours for sleep, I can make 3-4 runs total. 400 of these will literally sell in seconds on Jita and I will receive ~60mil isk total. That is not mass production at all! The key issue here is having to login every 2hrs to start another invention run and every 4hr 26min to start another production run. The light drones have good profit and I would do it if not for this constant logging in to start another run.
Except the reason they have such good profit is exactly because of the short run time requiring constant logging in. T2 module invention in general has better isk/hr than T2 ammo for exactly this reason. A 'job queue' that let you schedule jobs in series would drive those profits down. It's a tough situation - a quality of life improvement would hurt margins because the margins are based upon a crappy quality of life. :) |
Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 00:03:00 -
[240] - Quote
From all the blogs released so far (as of 7:52 EST 4/29/14) this is the only one leaving me feeling positive.
As I tend to do best with hands on, I will not comment on the UI until I get to play with it in full, but having read all 12 pages of comments and Dev responses, I am inclined to believe it will be an improvement overall. |
|
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1477
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:57:00 -
[241] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:In the industry update, will we be able to select multiple BPC to run several invention jobs at once or will we still have to run each job individually?
If it's going to stay the same as it is now, you are doing it wrong CCP. There is no gameplay benefit to the current system and all it does is induce tedium and repetitive strain injury on the player base.
Bump +1 |
Uncle Shrimpa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:54:00 -
[242] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Rek Seven wrote:In the industry update, will we be able to select multiple BPC to run several invention jobs at once or will we still have to run each job individually?
If it's going to stay the same as it is now, you are doing it wrong CCP. There is no gameplay benefit to the current system and all it does is induce tedium and repetitive strain injury on the player base. Bump
they have answered SEVERAL times
Individually, although the second and future ones are single click
They **want** to do batch runs, but it certainly won't be in summer CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)
|
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1477
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:48:00 -
[243] - Quote
Thanks for the information. I would have though batch runs could have been done before adding new features like "teams", but hey... +1 |
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
398
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 20:08:00 -
[244] - Quote
I would really like to know what's going to happen with the existing S&I UI since you said Invention and Reverse Engineering aren't going to be in the summer release.
Are we still going to be able to use the old UI for manufacturing and research? |
Kblackjack54
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
122
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:11:00 -
[245] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:I would really like to know what's going to happen with the existing S&I UI since you said Invention and Reverse Engineering aren't going to be in the summer release.
Are we still going to be able to use the old UI for manufacturing and research?
Hope so, but don't hold your breath in my view, reading through the various 'Dev Blogs' over the past eighteen months, got the impression that the various groups are in touch with each other less and less as time passes, more a competition now for who can come up with the worst mess they can devise and get it into game the quickest.
Seems the two things they really are scared to approach is PoS and Sov coding, all giving excuses as to why they cannot do this or that and why we have to wait to get things done because of those two issues.
Better in the view of most players to scrub the bling updates for a couple of years and get EVE sorted code and infrastructure wise than muck, 'Polite Description' around like they are doing now, seems taking a Sony to the head really has messed you guys up. |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
720
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 01:32:00 -
[246] - Quote
I was hoping the new UI would enable way for players to work together.
The game needs a way to indicate i am building this for this persons other job so peoples completed jobs feed other peoples work in process, kinda like PI works.
It also needs a way for community world building so we can click on a object/ station that a player as requested the pilots around him help build and the players can see in game what parts are still needed and how long till the in space item is built.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Khan'nikki
Justified Chaos
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 03:05:00 -
[247] - Quote
Dear CCP Arrow,
-- On Science
I write about the comment on how most researchers use their BP's to build themselves. Well, its because as a researcher it is not easy to sell your BP's - copies or originals - outside of contracts. There is no UI for this. There is no other market mechanism.
Yeah you could go to a trade channel. You can find ways to do it... But after all is said and done you're pretty much stuck with it. The standard tier levels for ME/PE seem like a step in this direction by changing the grain. I hope so.
T2 bp's are a hard sell as well with their varying ME/PE fixed on create. Would it be nice to be able to improve on T2 BPC's? Once again there is no way to outsource/insource these tasks. Maybe I don't know metallurgy but someone in Corp/Alliance does.
Within a corp BP ownership is a touchy subject. Sometimes corps have an incredible amount of blueprints but in the absence of internal mechanics it is hard to share the knowledge base. Perhaps if I could upload it to the mainframe or Corp Databank the resource would become available to copy/research. Just brainstorming.
Right now science is not supported through the contracts nor through corp interactions. How can I trigger a buyback order on a blueprint that is not identical and is no longer in my inventory ?
-- On Industry It'd be nice to split up large jobs into chunks and get many workers on it.
It would be nice to buy/sell directly from MOONS/PLANETS and have it support industry (and science). Just like the fuel block was a home run, adding a paid fuel/mat transfer at these points would be wonderful. We wouldnt get that Daytona high 100 octane smell in space though. Maybe something like a Cigar Machine, you pay, out comes container with goods. Also a purchaser - we buy fuel blocks at 'x' price, insert block into bin, Ka-ching!
However, would be nice to see which mats I'm missing to build something and place an order for it right from the BP. It would be nice to click from the BP and have it 'find in inventory' or 'find in corp' that Sylramic Fiber I need. I know I have a boatload somewhere.
It would be nice to know what was the last price I paid for a mat with one click too ( Find in Wallet transactions ).
It would be nice to have a history of the mats that went into the job, and the result. If we can get an estimate on the Kill Mail .. we should get one on the Build Mail.
From the wallet/transactions it would be nice to jump to where the stuff went so I can contract courier it.. .. and when I'm in space and click a station to place a buy order on the market, that it copy that price, that station.
When stuff does arrive in the corp deliveries it'd be nice to have a 'Deliver To' better than what we have now. I can't imagine a corp with 1000 ppl using a dropdown/scrolling window to pick to whom it goes. With few ppl it was challenging.
Most of my private contracts go to the same ppl/corps. Favorites over Search please. Yes, there are other Characters with 'KHAN' in the name .. but only one Khan'nikki.
Doing great.
Thanks!
|
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
473
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 12:23:00 -
[248] - Quote
Just seen it in the FF2014 stream, why is there so much wasted space in the Industry preview window when an item is shown that has no 3D model? Why not make it consistent and don't show the 3D model and instead the Icon altogether, like in the first concept? There would be so much more space for displaying useful information. It is, furthermore, not like you see a lot in this tiny preview window to begin with. |
Terminator 2
Omega Boost
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 00:50:00 -
[249] - Quote
I can only hope you have thought about people using low resolutions and that the new UI is not fixed width and will scale accordingly to be usable.
There are industry people with multibox research and trade setups afterall. |
Aluka 7th
139
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 06:14:00 -
[250] - Quote
So can someone confirm that new summer expansion will be deployed on June 3rd? I thought summer is the period from the summer solstice (usually 20 or 21 June in the Northern Hemisphere) to the autumn equinox. |
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3155
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 10:39:00 -
[251] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote:So can someone confirm that new summer expansion will be deployed on June 3rd? I thought summer is the period from the summer solstice (usually 20 or 21 June in the Northern Hemisphere) to the autumn equinox.
June 3rd.
The last summer expansion.
(They're moving to a more flexible 6 week release cadence.) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 14:00:00 -
[252] - Quote
Might have missed it, but will we be able to look into all POS modules remotely? Meaning that we can still start jobs from another system according to our network skill? |
HighlanderUK
Interstellar Business Machines Corp.
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:00:00 -
[253] - Quote
would be extremely helpful to up the limits of LAB & FACTORY jobs -- been playing for 10 years, and 11 of each job is a joke, especially factory jobs, where i'm doing a lot of building/selling for the local region/systems.
Even allowing the same with Contracts, have corp based and individual jobs. |
SpacePhenix
KnownUnknown
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:50:00 -
[254] - Quote
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO |
Nalha Saldana
DEAD JESTERS The Harlequin's
800
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 20:54:00 -
[255] - Quote
I hope you realize that there are 45 different combinations of input items to invent, for example, a Medium Remote Armor Repairer and you will need a awesome UI for me to be able to compare these. |
Odoya
Aeon Abraxas Abraxas Industrial
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 10:31:00 -
[256] - Quote
Centurax wrote:Looks really good, cant wait to try it out.
The thing I would still like to see is maybe a unit/batch cost based off of the market average and a job total based on that, then maybe have a comparison against the market item (to see if it is even worth building the product).
I'd love to see accounting functionality added to these UI changes, like the ability to assign a cost to set of minerals or parts that go into a build, along with the ability to track a 'batch cost" per builds. I'd even argue to tie this accounting function to toon skill books to unlock these portions of the UI. This type of accounting functionality would pull me back into the game UI and away from Google docs... |
Echo Mande
66
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 10:50:00 -
[257] - Quote
Overall this UI looks like a big improvement over what we have now. I've been running a manufacturing POS for a few years so except for the remote copy issue I'm not really worried overall. There is one thing I'm wondering (and worried) about.
Is it possible to force a delay into the start of a job? What I'm talking about is: is it possible to set up a job (any job) so that it only starts a set time after being submitted?
With the current slot system one of the things I like is that when I'm inventing (with several toons) I can stack sets of jobs so that I can load jobs and go do something else for several hours. With the upcoming system it looks like I might end up loading a bunch of jobs and have to come back every 75 minutes as well as having to pay a small fortune in lab load charges.
Forcing job delays should make for more efficiently run POSses by spreading loads (copy, invention, manufacture) out over time, especially time when the player(s) are asleep/at work/at school/getting mindbogglingly drunk/shooting each other.
|
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
401
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 18:39:00 -
[258] - Quote
SpacePhenix wrote:NO NO NO NO NO... NO
YES YES!
|
Kusum Fawn
State Protectorate Caldari State
455
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 06:08:00 -
[259] - Quote
Is there a fast way to sort bpc on the hanger floor of the personal hanger? deliver to personal cans from the personal hanger floor?
Say i have a mixed bunch of pbc and i want to sort them by number of runs remaining. any way to move them from the UI to cans?
currently there is no way to see how many runs are on a bpc other then right clicking it, If i have a mixed group I can see that i have a mixed group in the current UI but there is no way to sort them into cans from the S&I interface. and so i must still right click everything to get the right bpc into the correct locations.
does your new S&I interface actually have any useability changes? or is it all flashy lights to distract us from the fact its not useful? Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
58
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 01:42:00 -
[260] - Quote
Althalus Stenory wrote:2,850,000 ^This number format.
|
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3194
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 02:00:00 -
[261] - Quote
DetKhord Saisio wrote:Althalus Stenory wrote:2,850,000 ^This number format.
2 850 000 is the better format.
Or have it tied into the windows language formats.
Some places use , for the decimal divider, and . for the thousands seperator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
1098
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 16:00:00 -
[262] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:DetKhord Saisio wrote:Althalus Stenory wrote:2,850,000 ^This number format. 2 850 000 is the better format. Or have it tied into the windows language formats. Some places use , for the decimal divider, and . for the thousands seperator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark Indeed.
It's a bit of a pain having to twiddle with national settings when importing formatted numerical data.
And let's not get started on time and date formats .... :(
CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
|
TopTrader
Tech3 Company Avaricious Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 16:44:00 -
[263] - Quote
It's sad, new industry UI is still not on the testserver as they said on fanfest... |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
491
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 06:37:00 -
[264] - Quote
DetKhord Saisio wrote:Althalus Stenory wrote:2,850,000 ^This number format.
How about no? This maybe good for you, but is complete rubbish in the rest of the world. Locale specific number formats only depending on your language settings.
Also, on a more related note to the new Industry UI:
Will we be able to pin certain stations/installations as sort of favorites between which we can compare installation cost easily? I am aware of that you want us to roam around big time in our expensive freighters, but I know that I don't want to play after you fairly daft idea. Which is why I will only use a small set of stations for my industry activities and henceforth only need to compare prices for a small set of stations. Now, it would be very annoying and irritating to constantly have to search through a quite long list of stations for instance for the Tash-Murkon or Sinq Laison region all the time to find the always same stations.
Do we have such a pin to top functionality or is this kind of important feature not planned? |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
335
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 18:09:00 -
[265] - Quote
Not sure if it's been mentioned but please make sure that you include cancelled jobs in the industry history along with who cancelled it. Currently cancelled jobs do not show up. |
Michael Ignis Archangel
Caveat Emptor Technologies LP Spaceship Samurai
43
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 22:48:00 -
[266] - Quote
Apologies in advance if this was already mentioned in the 14 pages above.
Since
1) I'm hoarding raw ore like a squirrel at the moment to be squished in the new nifty compressed blocks (I can't be the only one) 2) While I love the compression mechanics being introduced, I also can't be the only one noticing the decidedly one-way nature of reprocessing now.
In this beautiful new UI feature, if it's not a horrific amount of work, would it be possible to have the UI calculate or show via some other color, the current "proposed" output from the reprocessing window?
Example for clarity: I'm building 10 Rokhs, and am short on a random batch of minerals. I have a stash of compressed ore recently shipped in, and I want to keep my loose mineral pile small because extra m3 are liabilities if you need to cut a quick exit. I would be infinitely grateful if, as I went to reprocess those blocks, their proposed output filled up the incomplete bars (in some other color, w/e).
To be extra clear I'm not looking for the game to optimize it for me - being smart about that is part of the gameplay in my eyes. But given the trend towards increased visual info delivery, I think this would be a welcome addition. |
Simili
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
2
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 14:51:00 -
[267] - Quote
Odoya wrote:Centurax wrote:Looks really good, cant wait to try it out.
The thing I would still like to see is maybe a unit/batch cost based off of the market average and a job total based on that, then maybe have a comparison against the market item (to see if it is even worth building the product).
I'd love to see accounting functionality added to these UI changes, like the ability to assign a cost to set of minerals or parts that go into a build, along with the ability to track a 'batch cost" per builds. I'd even argue to tie this accounting function to toon skill books to unlock these portions of the UI. This type of accounting functionality would pull me back into the game UI and away from Google docs...
I'm all for that.
With the current UI on singularity, you can "Copy material information", which seems to contain those info: MineralstypeID Item Available Required Est. Unit price
What I would like to see is the same thing with the "Total Job Cost " added to that copy option! Also, it would be extremely nice if we could copy that information from a running job as it is currently set! If that information could also contain the item produced and quantity of it then it would be really easy to keep track of our inventory outside of the game. What would be even better would be to multi-select jobs in the "Jobs" tab and be a able to extract that information in 1 click for multiple jobs!!
This is so close to reduce manual work using excel sheets or other services to plan and produce production.
|
Zuul Achura
Stampeding Beasts
5
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 15:42:00 -
[268] - Quote
New UI Looks great but is VERY SLOW! Unbearably slow. Is there away to use the old UI? Like the option to not load station environment? Thanks! |
El Zylcho
Republic University Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 18:52:00 -
[269] - Quote
Is there any way to minimize or resize the upper graphic portion of the industry screen? It does NOT give useful feedback most of the time for the massive amount of screen real estate is consumes.
Various modifiers on the jobs are represented, so the UI isn't really removing complexity because I cannot see a summary of various fees, my skills impacts on them, etc. Also values like install costs go away once the job is running. Why?
It'd be nice to have the graphic part as a pop over sub window that can be moved once an item in the table view is selected / double clicked. As it is, it'll be hard to single view of jobs because of the icon portion of the UI. |
Ergentii Juhar
Veria Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 10:45:00 -
[270] - Quote
Zuul Achura wrote:New UI Looks great but is VERY SLOW! Unbearably slow. Is there away to use the old UI? Like the option to not load station environment? Thanks!
I totally agree. The new UI is terribly slow. Also, it resets the input and output locations for each different BP, making a new choice needed for a different BP - in my case that's more than a minute.
It looks really fancy and easy to use, but it's performance makes it a big drawback. Please, give us the option to use the old quick system, something like: right click -> manufacture right click -> copy right click (on bpc) -> invention.
|
|
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 03:20:00 -
[271] - Quote
But doing that would mean catering to the players' wishes.
That would mean CCP losing some power to make players do what CCP wants.
Can't have that. |
Alex Herkol
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:28:00 -
[272] - Quote
Hello , who can i find the colonie management ? in Industie i not found ? |
Ergentii Juhar
Veria Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 18:04:00 -
[273] - Quote
It seems that the UI is being slowed down by my gazillion blueprints on hundrends of containers. I moved them to a non-corp charactter, and now the delay is gone (almost). |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: [one page] |