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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Grave Digger Eriker
Grave Diggers Guild
12
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:09:00 -
[5281] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:So reading a lot of this I've come to a conclusion. JF need to be nerfed a bit more. Shorten their range to 4LY or dial up the fatigue settings a bit. Come up with some additional mechanism to get them out into harms way. The whole force projection thing needs to lose it's financial backing. If CFC or who ever can afford to put archons in every 5th system, then jump fatigue has a much smaller effect.
Basis: It's what all the big boys are crying about the most.... so twist the freaking knife until the game gets fun again.
Cripple the wallet and you cripple the organization. The quick way - CCP just deletes any wallet over some set value. Of course this is rediculous. So they need to come up with reasonable ways to drain them over time. The big picture would be to make it fiscally unreasonable to maintain large empires. That's not easily done w/out screwing over the guys a few wrungs down the ladder working their way up.
OK so how to kick the wallet of a vast empire squarely in the junk. Passive isk has to go. That's things like stationary moon goo. If a large group can (and let's face it totally has) put a strangle hold on a passive resource, then it has to go. Getting rid of the goo isn't practical, so move it around. Make it a difficult to find the needle in a large haystack. Make it deplete and be rediscoverable at some random point in the galaxy. Make it so it has to be found (scanned). Make it a pain in the patoot for any one group to control exclusively.
Of course the big guys will say it's of little consequence. They may be right for where they are sitting. For a smaller to middle size group finding a rare moon deposit in their back yard would be a boon. So look at it as helping the little guys instead on not hurting the big guys.
I know if I had a small corner of null and rare goo popped up on one of my moons.... I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd reap the windfall! Wallets will be drained alright but they won't be fictional ISK wallets they will be the dusty wallets of CCP employees if this is implemented in this iteration. Enjoy your Christmas it may be CCP's last
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Celly S
Concord Attraction Services The Ditanian Alliance
288
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:10:00 -
[5282] - Quote
i love how all capitals are now being put into a higher risk situation because of these changes yet the ability to BO hot drop someone is remaining virtually unchanged... LOL
its almost as though someone wants to see more stuff get blown up or something...
idk, maybe its just me... o/ Celly Smunt
Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
97
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:10:00 -
[5283] - Quote
Lurifax wrote:Easthir Ravin wrote:James Baboli wrote:So, playing with the math a little, .1 fatigue per minute reduction seems very low. Personally I think that ~.25 is right, as this means that until you hit the very edge of range, you can jump into and out of a fight 1 jump away, and be cooled back off to do it again the next day. This also reduces the insanely long multi-year trips, making them instead, multi-month trips, which still force careful deployments and probably putting capital pilots into long term squadrons so that you have pilots with the same cool downs for fights you may need to extract via cyno. Why would I want anything to take months to do in this game....I swear I am taking crazy pills if we think it is acceptable to have any timer in this game that is months long.... Realize we are talking about MOVING ships here and NOT building things. Can I have you stuff when you unsub?
Where are you guys at these days? If anything you should be fighting this as well...I hate to think what it takes for your logistics crew to get stuff to whatever backwater you guys occupy these days. IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
Papa Django
CosmoTeK LTD La Division Bleue
34
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:14:00 -
[5284] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote: Basically, CCP gave a null sec working group to a developer who has no idea about economics, not just as a social science, but also as an abstract and isolated mechanic that applies to EVE markets. Look at Greyscale's surprised reactions in this thread. From "Oh, newbies use clone jumping?" to "T2 production was done before Jump Freighters, so I don't think jump fatigue will negatively impact T2 production" show that Greyscale has no idea about the dynamics regarding goods and production in EVE. (Yeah, say hello to a T2 cloak costing +100m ISK, just as it was before Jump Freighters, you genius!) This is a developer who is failing to show a basic understanding of the game he is attempting to change. This is a developer who is acting on the contrary to the idea that EVE is a sandbox MMO game. This is a developer that thinks EVE is a game that players need to dedicate their whole work days simply to be able to play the game in the sense that Greyscale thinks everyone should! This is a developer that thinks it is a good idea to introduce more artificial timers to EVE to slow down players, when in reality, it was the player base that was complaining about the artificial timers that game imposed on us all along!
And that developer is now proposing a change that not only will make nullsec uninhabitable except for better regions which have direct connections to empire, but will also negatively impact EVERY REGION in EVE because T2 production materials come from null.
What can I say? This will not end well for CCP.
You are wrong all the line if you consider that your POV is the regular POV for everyone.
I agree to the Greyscale POV, and i agree with consequences you described but i think it is a good thing for the game and the economy.
T2 are too common, they should be rarified. It could open many business opportunities.
It will relocalize economy which is a good thing.
On the macro scale, your big coalitions must die. You are strangling the game. This game need some fresh air.
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Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
400
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:17:00 -
[5285] - Quote
x |
Yugo Reventlov
Keeping Up Appearances
22
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:18:00 -
[5286] - Quote
As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live.
I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233
What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination. |
ankerf cram
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
0
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:19:00 -
[5287] - Quote
Do you really want to kill deep 0.0? How can a small alliance live in deep space, if they are not able to control the whole way from and to there area?
Today they can rely on jumpfreighters to get stuff in (t2 Modules, Isotopes of other regions) and out (moongold).
Same problem with black ops if they can't make hit and run operations because they have to wait for the counter to go to zero then the fun of blackop operations is ruined!
For the people of deep 0.0 space do not nerf Jumpfreighters!
For the fun in the game do not nerf blackops! |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
97
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:19:00 -
[5288] - Quote
Papa Django wrote:Alp Khan wrote: Basically, CCP gave a null sec working group to a developer who has no idea about economics, not just as a social science, but also as an abstract and isolated mechanic that applies to EVE markets. Look at Greyscale's surprised reactions in this thread. From "Oh, newbies use clone jumping?" to "T2 production was done before Jump Freighters, so I don't think jump fatigue will negatively impact T2 production" show that Greyscale has no idea about the dynamics regarding goods and production in EVE. (Yeah, say hello to a T2 cloak costing +100m ISK, just as it was before Jump Freighters, you genius!) This is a developer who is failing to show a basic understanding of the game he is attempting to change. This is a developer who is acting on the contrary to the idea that EVE is a sandbox MMO game. This is a developer that thinks EVE is a game that players need to dedicate their whole work days simply to be able to play the game in the sense that Greyscale thinks everyone should! This is a developer that thinks it is a good idea to introduce more artificial timers to EVE to slow down players, when in reality, it was the player base that was complaining about the artificial timers that game imposed on us all along!
And that developer is now proposing a change that not only will make nullsec uninhabitable except for better regions which have direct connections to empire, but will also negatively impact EVERY REGION in EVE because T2 production materials come from null.
What can I say? This will not end well for CCP.
You are wrong all the line if you consider that your POV is the regular POV for everyone. I agree to the Greyscale POV, and i agree with consequences you described but i think it is a good thing for the game and the economy. T2 are too common, they should be rarified. It could open many business opportunities. It will relocalize economy which is a good thing. On the macro scale, your big coalitions must die. You are strangling the game. This game need some fresh air.
It is this kind of posting that reinforces the statement by some, that people who do not live in Nul should keep opinions about Nul to themselves and let the adults have a conversation. IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
Rawthorm
D.M.T inc Circle-Of-Two
19
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:20:00 -
[5289] - Quote
Dream Five wrote:Maybe instead they could limit the number of supercaps on the same grid, as in if there is more than a few supers within 200km you can't cyno or warp another super there, similar to deployable cynojammers. Could be interesting as battles would get dispersed in the system.
Same limits but higher could be applied to caps separately.
Would never work. One side turns up, fills that limit and then the opposing force can't bring any supers of their own. Totally skews the fight in favour of whoever arrives first. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1561
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:20:00 -
[5290] - Quote
0.25 per minute means it's 24 minutes per jump, so you are travelling 12.5 ly/hour. There are no such things as multi month journeys unless you fail at economising your travel, in which case you are deliberately doing things the hard way and shooting yourself in both feet, and EVE should be hard for you when you do such things.
This is assuming just jumping and not making any use of any gates in the mean time, and 5ly jumps so minimising the effect of the 1+ part of the formula. |
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Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
199
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:21:00 -
[5291] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Alp Khan wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Alp Khan wrote:It would certainly be awesome from a systemic level if Iceland had to go back to importing goods from off-shore using Viking era Knarr ships. Especially if we forced them to sail through various choke points heavily populated by pirates. Mind, it would totally "suck balls" for people living in Iceland. But then, they chose to live out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. From this blog post. Oh, that was hilarious. Thank you for posting this here, wouldn't have known about it otherwise. Also, can't wait to see it in-game! They are not removing Jump Freighters, FYI. But since you seem to be applying that hilarious example to your own stature in null, allow me to remind you that as a Goon, I'm lucky and will not be badly affected by Greyscale's ~bright idea~ as a lesser entity such as MoA's average line member would. It is not nearly close to what is being proposed. Currently the imports that get in iceland need to way way more than the 1 hour than the JF will need after these changes. Right now we do not have real lgistics and ship lines. We have star treck transports beaming supplies up and down.
You make it sound like Jump Freighters fly for free, that they cost nothing, they don't require alts to fly, and Jump Bridges appear out of thin air, without anybody setting them up, fueling them, protecting them. |
Papa Django
CosmoTeK LTD La Division Bleue
34
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:22:00 -
[5292] - Quote
Easthir Ravin wrote: It is this kind of posting that reinforces the statement by some, that people who do not live in Nul should keep opinions about Nul to themselves and let the adults have a conversation.
I am seeing childs crying about their future broken toy.
We need changes. Theses are good changes.
Your proposal is denying the changes and keep everything like now, and you call you an adult ... |
ankerf cram
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
0
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:22:00 -
[5293] - Quote
Dream Five wrote:Maybe instead they could limit the number of supercaps on the same grid, as in if there is more than a few supers within 200km you can't cyno or warp another super there, similar to deployable cynojammers. Could be interesting as battles would get dispersed in the system.
Same limits but higher could be applied to caps separately.
So if somebody is on my POS and he has a really large fleet i am not allowed to send my fleet in to protect it?
Or to get warp to my save POS? |
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
400
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:22:00 -
[5294] - Quote
Rawthorm wrote:Dream Five wrote:Maybe instead they could limit the number of supercaps on the same grid, as in if there is more than a few supers within 200km you can't cyno or warp another super there, similar to deployable cynojammers. Could be interesting as battles would get dispersed in the system.
Same limits but higher could be applied to caps separately.
Would never work. One side turns up, fills that limit and then the opposing force can't bring any supers of their own. Totally skews the fight in favour of whoever arrives first.
Yeah that's why i deleted my original message. I think that could be somehow solved though, still thinking about it. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
93
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:22:00 -
[5295] - Quote
Dream Five wrote:Maybe instead they could limit the number of supercaps on the same grid, as in if there is more than a few supers within 200km you can't cyno or warp another super there, similar to deployable cynojammers. Could be interesting as battles would get dispersed in the system.
Same limits but higher could be applied to caps separately.
So first team in wins? |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
218
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:23:00 -
[5296] - Quote
ankerf cram wrote:Do you really want to kill deep 0.0? How can a small alliance live in deep space, if they are not able to control the whole way from and to there area? By using wormholes for logistics. When I was living in deep low sec I didn't have a JF either and instead used wormholes to bring stuff in.
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olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
88
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:23:00 -
[5297] - Quote
on the point of t2 being common he is right . There will need to be moon goo redistribution and a revamp of belts to include more low ends in null sec. But all in all im looking forward to seeing what the change brings. Still believe jump freighters and Rorquals need an exemption rom the range nerf until they address the issues of low ends and moon go i just mentioned |
Lurifax
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
10
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:23:00 -
[5298] - Quote
Easthir Ravin wrote:Lurifax wrote:Easthir Ravin wrote:James Baboli wrote:So, playing with the math a little, .1 fatigue per minute reduction seems very low. Personally I think that ~.25 is right, as this means that until you hit the very edge of range, you can jump into and out of a fight 1 jump away, and be cooled back off to do it again the next day. This also reduces the insanely long multi-year trips, making them instead, multi-month trips, which still force careful deployments and probably putting capital pilots into long term squadrons so that you have pilots with the same cool downs for fights you may need to extract via cyno. Why would I want anything to take months to do in this game....I swear I am taking crazy pills if we think it is acceptable to have any timer in this game that is months long.... Realize we are talking about MOVING ships here and NOT building things. Can I have you stuff when you unsub? Where are you guys at these days? If anything you should be fighting this as well...I hate to think what it takes for your logistics crew to get stuff to whatever backwater you guys occupy these days.
Chilling in Kheram 5 jumps from amarr. These changes are the best thing that could happen to eve. |
Condritis Aideron
Shadow Legion X The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 11:23:00 -
[5299] - Quote
I wonder if they are lining up CCP Greyscale for a sacking? I.e. get him to make an horrendous mistake which loses CCP loads of money and then they can show him the door? |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
97
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:24:00 -
[5300] - Quote
Papa Django wrote:Easthir Ravin wrote: It is this kind of posting that reinforces the statement by some, that people who do not live in Nul should keep opinions about Nul to themselves and let the adults have a conversation.
I am seeing childs crying about their future broken toy. We need changes. Theses are good changes. Your proposal is denying the changes and keep everything like now, and you call you an adult ...
I agree change is needed but going backwards is not the way to do this. Instead of a region fracturing nerf, we fix the root cause of this, the dated SOV mechanic. IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
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Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
527
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:24:00 -
[5301] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:(Hint: T2 materials are tied into null moons) Hint: there's plenty of moons in lowsec too, to include R32/64, and plenty of the racial ones laying around. We'll get by.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
Lurifax
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
10
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:25:00 -
[5302] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:on the point of t2 being common he is right . There will need to be moon goo redistribution and a revamp of belts to include more low ends in null sec. But all in all im looking forward to seeing what the change brings. Still believe jump freighters and Rorquals need an exemption rom the range nerf until they address the issues of low ends and moon go i just mentioned
No exception to the JF. More stuff will have to be build locally and only the lux stuff imported. Start building your T2 locally. |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
98
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:25:00 -
[5303] - Quote
Lurifax wrote:Easthir Ravin wrote:Lurifax wrote:Easthir Ravin wrote:James Baboli wrote:So, playing with the math a little, .1 fatigue per minute reduction seems very low. Personally I think that ~.25 is right, as this means that until you hit the very edge of range, you can jump into and out of a fight 1 jump away, and be cooled back off to do it again the next day. This also reduces the insanely long multi-year trips, making them instead, multi-month trips, which still force careful deployments and probably putting capital pilots into long term squadrons so that you have pilots with the same cool downs for fights you may need to extract via cyno. Why would I want anything to take months to do in this game....I swear I am taking crazy pills if we think it is acceptable to have any timer in this game that is months long.... Realize we are talking about MOVING ships here and NOT building things. Can I have you stuff when you unsub? Where are you guys at these days? If anything you should be fighting this as well...I hate to think what it takes for your logistics crew to get stuff to whatever backwater you guys occupy these days. Chilling in Kheram 5 jumps from amarr. These changes are the best thing that could happen to eve.
Awesome, I hope you like living there, because that is where you will stay. Welcome to true stagnation. IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
Rohnika Khan
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:26:00 -
[5304] - Quote
CCP pull your head out of your ass, this is seriously the most stupidest idea you have put in motion! Chris Roberts will love you for this .. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 11:26:00 -
[5305] - Quote
Yugo Reventlov wrote:As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live. I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination.
I think you fail to grasp why they made that. They want you to NOT JUMP all your way. They want you to make only 1 or 2 jumps to avoid long detours and make the rest by gate. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Lurifax
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
10
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:26:00 -
[5306] - Quote
Awesome, I hope you like living there, because that is where you will stay. Welcome to true stagnation.[/quote]
Its been a blast so far. We have been fighting the locals and shooting the local lemmings comming through the gate. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
93
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 11:27:00 -
[5307] - Quote
I think i'll give CCP the benefit of the doubt they say these changes are going to work when coupled with the next few. From what i can see the reason they are pushing these out before the rest is because they are ready and can use the time to adjust the numbers. I don't like how it seems a lot of this went around the CSM but again i'll keep faith in the developers of this game I love. |
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
400
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 11:27:00 -
[5308] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Dream Five wrote:Maybe instead they could limit the number of supercaps on the same grid, as in if there is more than a few supers within 200km you can't cyno or warp another super there, similar to deployable cynojammers. Could be interesting as battles would get dispersed in the system.
Same limits but higher could be applied to caps separately. So first team in wins?
How about 1 super per 30km sphere? Could be explained as anti-gravity field around it that pushes other ships away proportional to their mass or some such.
TBH i think superblobs and massive capital/firepower concetration is the cause of blue donut, not so much power projection.
Whoever they are, they are rich and they'll just circumvent these changes by prepositioning 5-6 supers per character where needed and roam in interceptors showing up where needed.
Highly concentrated firepower on the grid is the real problem I think. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 11:28:00 -
[5309] - Quote
Easthir Ravin wrote:
Chilling in Kheram 5 jumps from amarr. These changes are the best thing that could happen to eve.
Awesome, I hope you like living there, because that is where you will stay. Welcome to true stagnation.[/quote]
aaa nope
before jump freighters and become bridges and before capital proliferation was the age more dinamic ar further away from ANY stagnation that eve ever lived.
This will add a LOT of content. But still some numbers must be tweaked. And It will only work when ccp delivers the next stage with sov changes. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1561
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 11:28:00 -
[5310] - Quote
And as an incidental to my earlier maths. JF's at 0.1 decay. Each jump is 1+(Distance*.1) meaning a max of 1.5 fatigue. So 15 minutes per jump, 20ly/hour. At 0.25 decay. 6 minutes per jump, 50ly/hour.
If it's 0.25 decay you'll hardly notice the fatigue timer at all on jump freighters and anything else with a 0.1 distance multiplier. |
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