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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
202
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Posted - 2014.10.29 03:51:54 -
[721] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:re: Polling highsec miners about ganking. "Excuse me mister Rabbit, could you spare a moment to share with me your feelings about Foxes?"
Of course the answers you get from those who are actually at the keys are predictable.
Of course the mice are in favor of belling the cat.
However, CCP is under no obligation to either put the bell on, or provide said bell.
Also, you should keep in mind that taking it upon yourself to champion those who cannot be bothered to defend themselves is not the same as championing the defenseless. No amount of verbal gymnastics is going to change that.
I suggest taking a step back and taking a good look at what's going on here. Yours is the only voice crying out in this thread against these perceived injustices. You are trying to defend an indefensible position. It is madness.
Well I'm glad you agree with me on what the miners would say. Now if only you could convince your allies of the same, there seems to be no end to the number of irrational posts asking me to "prove" this. I commend you for at least having the competent to see the obvious truth here.
The reality is that due to the AFK nature of mining, and the type of people who do it, they will never be able to defend themselves. No ifs ands or buts about it. As for the tenor of the posters here, the "carebear" posters tend to mocked, ridiculed, wardecced, hunted down in game, and eventually driven out of it entirely. I have spoken with multiple folks who have had those experiences when speaking up for "carebears," which is why you don't see em here. Thankfully I'm not someone who can be bullied like that. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2898
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Posted - 2014.10.29 03:58:42 -
[722] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Well I'm glad you agree with me on what the miners would say. Now if only you could convince your allies of the same, there seems to be no end to the number of irrational posts asking me to "prove" this. I commend you for at least having the competent to see the obvious truth here.
The reality is that due to the AFK nature of mining, and the type of people who do it, they will never be able to defend themselves. No ifs ands or buts about it. As for the tenor of the posters here, the "carebear" posters tend to mocked, ridiculed, wardecced, hunted down in game, and eventually driven out of it entirely. I have spoken with multiple folks who have had those experiences when speaking up for "carebears," which is why you don't see em here. Thankfully I'm not someone who can be bullied like that.
The entitlement dripping from this post is nauseating.
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Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
78
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Posted - 2014.10.29 04:04:50 -
[723] - Quote
* passes the bucket
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
636
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Posted - 2014.10.29 04:21:13 -
[724] - Quote
Mining is not by nature AFK. Stop that wrong minded thinking right now. People CHOOSE to mine AFK. In doing so they CHOOSE not to defend themselves. The reason you are speaking alone is not because others are too afraid to back you up, it's because you are wrong. I used to PVE exclusively, including mining and mission running. I have since changed my playstyle. Other PVE'rs have also chimed in to explain to you the magnitude of the wrong that you are bringing to the table here as well. There is nothing, nothing at all wrong with embracing a PVE playstyle in this game, so long as you do not lose touch with the pvp-centric nature of the game itself. Deliberately engaging in AFK activities while in game pretty much forfeits any right to complain about bad things happening as a result. Those who become 'victims' as a result of this have nobody to blame but themselves. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
202
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Posted - 2014.10.29 05:14:33 -
[725] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Mining is not by nature AFK. Stop that wrong minded thinking right now.
Sorry, I was laughing too hard after reading this to continue. The effortless activity that requires no more than returning every 20 minutes to press F1 is not by nature AFK? Ok then, I guess we must have different definitions of "nature." |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
639
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Posted - 2014.10.29 05:37:29 -
[726] - Quote
I don't think you understand how to mine properly. Lemme break it down for you. You start at a point near the belt that has a direct clear path to the station you eventually dock at, or a chosen safe spot in space. You then align to said point after scanning a series of juicy rocks that you want to badtouch. Target the nearest few and commence with the noms. Meanwhile, you open up your D-scan and set it to 360 with a distance of around oh, say 1AU or so... or just under the distance to the nearest station or belt. As rocks start to pass out of range of your lasers you switch to new roids further ahead... there's no need to fully deplete them to get what you need. Watch local, scoop ore, hit D-scan. If someone dubious shows up in system you start hovering near the 'warp' button. If something that's not a fellow miner shows up on D-scan you start warping immediately. If a fellow miner shows up in belt and then starts to act oddly in ANY fashion, you warp away.
In doing this I've never been ganked, but have had a few try. Mining by hitting F1 and coming back in 20 minutes is simply put, idiotic, and asking for suffering.
There. Now you know how to mine, for free no less. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1568
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Posted - 2014.10.29 05:43:11 -
[727] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Mining is not by nature AFK. Stop that wrong minded thinking right now.
Sorry, I was laughing too hard after reading this to continue. The effortless activity that requires no more than returning every 20 minutes to press F1 is not by nature AFK? Ok then, I guess we must have different definitions of "nature." I'd like to hear your mining experience. Apparently you know something the rest of us don't. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2014.10.29 05:58:51 -
[728] - Quote
The New Player Experience is bloody awful.
Resident Newbie at: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Nevil Oscillator
43
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Posted - 2014.10.29 10:19:01 -
[729] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Mining is not by nature AFK. Stop that wrong minded thinking right now.
Sorry, I was laughing too hard after reading this to continue. The effortless activity that requires no more than returning every 20 minutes to press F1 is not by nature AFK? Ok then, I guess we must have different definitions of "nature."
Does reading this count as AFK ?
Another devious suggestion
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Satan's Spawn
Satan's Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.10.29 11:52:05 -
[730] - Quote
what's wrong? ... the recent production re-design.
Over graphiced, over complicated (as in too many steps n click, not that it's too difficult), and thus I get bored/fustrated/lethargic halfway through. Aside from an accruate managable business model is 'urgh' ... bring back the old way. Much more like real life economics. |
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
872
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Posted - 2014.10.29 13:00:57 -
[731] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:This all seems to continually converge upon not getting emotionally invested in video games. Then I have great news for you. It would seem that more and more people are becoming less emotionally invested in Eve Online. Indeed a cause for celebration.
Successfully doinitwrongGäó since 2006.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21274
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Posted - 2014.10.29 13:10:18 -
[732] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:The New Player Experience is bloody awful. If you think the NPE is awful now you should have tried it when it consisted of "here's a ship, there's an NPC, try not to die too quickly" or as it was otherwise known "here's a Rubik cube, go forth and perform an unlikely sexual act on yourself"
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2899
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 13:16:31 -
[733] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:La Nariz wrote:This all seems to continually converge upon not getting emotionally invested in video games. Then I have great news for you. It would seem that more and more people are becoming less emotionally invested in Eve Online. Indeed a cause for celebration.
There is another thread for idiotic EVE is dieing rants npc alt.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21274
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Posted - 2014.10.29 13:27:50 -
[734] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:I don't think you understand how to mine properly. Lemme break it down for you. You start at a point near the belt that has a direct clear path to the station you eventually dock at, or a chosen safe spot in space. You then align to said point after scanning a series of juicy rocks that you want to badtouch. Target the nearest few and commence with the noms. Meanwhile, you open up your D-scan and set it to 360 with a distance of around oh, say 1AU or so... or just under the distance to the nearest station or belt. As rocks start to pass out of range of your lasers you switch to new roids further ahead... there's no need to fully deplete them to get what you need. Watch local, scoop ore, hit D-scan. If someone dubious shows up in system you start hovering near the 'warp' button. If something that's not a fellow miner shows up on D-scan you start warping immediately. If a fellow miner shows up in belt and then starts to act oddly in ANY fashion, you warp away.
In doing this I've never been ganked, but have had a few try. Mining by hitting F1 and coming back in 20 minutes is simply put, idiotic, and asking for suffering.
There. Now you know how to mine, for free no less.
Edit: To be fair this model is for solo mining. It gets more sophisticated once you start working with an orca, other miners, haulers, and an active guard on duty. Pretty much this, however it involves entirely too much effort for some. It's far easier to park on the warp in point, hit F1 and go back to watching faptupe, reading a book or just walking away to do something else, then moan on the forums when you get ganked.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
205
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Posted - 2014.10.29 18:10:41 -
[735] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:
What on earth makes you think the depressing was waning by the late 30s?
And the spending jolt that started to improve GDP happened around 1939 in America, when we started production to PREPARE for going to war, making your "removing millions of unemployable young men" argument somewhat worthless.
Preparing to go to war, similar to preparing to lose ships in high-sec.
Now take it one step further. What would happen to CCP's CURRENT customer base (ie, the people they have profited off of for over a decade) if they decided to dilute their brand in the way you describe?
You also need to take this another step further. Ignoring "irrational loyalty" as you so incorrectly put it, certain brands signify a level of quality and a level of service. Why would you ask CCP to destroy that level and type of service by changing the fundamental basic principle that EVE was founded on?
Have you honestly given this any thought? Are you a college kid who just picked up his first marketing/economics textbooks and wanted to start copying and pasting them in here?
Veers argument is the same as "Lets call Volkswagens, Audis, Bugattis, Bentlys, etc.. the same thing and assume no customers will leave or be unhappy!"
And my reply is the same it has always been "so young, so naive"
Oh nonsense. America didn't go onto war footing until after Pearl Harbor. You can check the GDP growth numbers in the 30s to see the recovery in action.
Whatever, this economics talk is boring and has no bearing on the game. Next topic.
As far as branding....I would say 70+ % of the playerbase lives in highsec, and they overwhelmingly oppose the suicide ganking which is done by 1-2% of the playerbase, if that. The Eve brand is not built around blowing up new players in highsec through the actions of career criminals. Restricting that, much like cracking down on real life harassment or the like would not hurt Eve's brand - rather it would burnish it.
And while young at heart, I do confess to having an advanced degree a some years of work experience...so better find a new line of attack.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2907
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:17:32 -
[736] - Quote
Other than it making financial sense to nerf highsec.
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1308
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:24:38 -
[737] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Petre en Thielles wrote:
What on earth makes you think the depressing was waning by the late 30s?
And the spending jolt that started to improve GDP happened around 1939 in America, when we started production to PREPARE for going to war, making your "removing millions of unemployable young men" argument somewhat worthless.
Preparing to go to war, similar to preparing to lose ships in high-sec.
Now take it one step further. What would happen to CCP's CURRENT customer base (ie, the people they have profited off of for over a decade) if they decided to dilute their brand in the way you describe?
You also need to take this another step further. Ignoring "irrational loyalty" as you so incorrectly put it, certain brands signify a level of quality and a level of service. Why would you ask CCP to destroy that level and type of service by changing the fundamental basic principle that EVE was founded on?
Have you honestly given this any thought? Are you a college kid who just picked up his first marketing/economics textbooks and wanted to start copying and pasting them in here?
Veers argument is the same as "Lets call Volkswagens, Audis, Bugattis, Bentlys, etc.. the same thing and assume no customers will leave or be unhappy!"
And my reply is the same it has always been "so young, so naive"
Oh nonsense. America didn't go onto war footing until after Pearl Harbor. You can check the GDP growth numbers in the 30s to see the recovery in action. Whatever, this economics talk is boring and has no bearing on the game. Next topic. As far as branding....I would say 70+ % of the playerbase lives in highsec, and they overwhelmingly oppose the suicide ganking which is done by 1-2% of the playerbase, if that. The Eve brand is not built around blowing up new players in highsec through the actions of career criminals. Restricting that, much like cracking down on real life harassment or the like would not hurt Eve's brand - rather it would burnish it. And while young at heart, I do confess to having an advanced degree a some years of work experience...so better find a new line of attack.
What does any of this have to do with a video game???
Despite the slogan "Eve is real" it is NOT... If you think Eve has anything to do with or is related to real life... GET HELP!!!
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Hiasa Kite
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
34
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Posted - 2014.10.29 18:37:12 -
[738] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:As far as branding....I would say 70+ % of the playerbase lives in highsec Source? |
Nevil Oscillator
44
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Posted - 2014.10.29 18:39:33 -
[739] - Quote
You can tell that this thread has no grounds by the fact it would be locked if you pointed out something that actually is wrong with Eve
So your saying that isn't a graphics related issue ?
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:46:33 -
[740] - Quote
IIshira wrote: What does any of this have to do with a video game???
I think one of them is trying to push forward the notion that the destruction by the conflict itself is essential for economic growth during war and in eve.
Which is in itself a far stretch considering that war effort is planned well in forward, funded by potentially unlimited sources instead of true economic growth (bonds or more simply drafting the workforce) and the destruction of the results of human labor can be achieved by arbitrary means (1984 and floating fortresses so long in production they are obsolete when they leave the dry dock come to mind). |
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Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
78
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Posted - 2014.10.29 18:48:41 -
[741] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Oh nonsense. America didn't go onto war footing until after Pearl Harbor. False, the US started preparing for war in around 1937 when they started to produce battleships again. In 1940 FDR authorised the doubling in size of the Navy, he also authorised the lend-lease program in the same year which commenced in March 1941 as well as the draft, in July 1941 the US occupied Iceland, freeing up British forces for action elsewhere; all of which are prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.
Quote:I would say 70+ % of the playerbase lives in highsec That's characters, not players, you'll also find that a lot of nullsec players have highsec alts because highsec is where the markets are, and up until recently was the goto place for industry.
Quote:they overwhelmingly oppose the suicide ganking Citation/evidence needed, without them that is speculation on your part.
Quote:The Eve brand is not built around blowing up new players in highsec through the actions of career criminals. You're kind of correct, the brand isn't built around the blowing up of new players in highsec, what it is built around is it being a harsh dark and dystopian universe, with mainly player driven content, huge battles that hit the headlines of mainstream media etc. Getting blown up in highsec and career criminals are part of that.
Quote:Restricting that, much like cracking down on real life harassment or the like would not hurt Eve's brand - rather it would burnish it. And while young at heart, I do confess to having an advanced degree a some years of work experience...so better find a new line of attack. While I agree on the cracking down of real life harrasment, you're wrong about restricting highsec PvP not hurting the Eve brand. It's not a game where you get mollycoddled by the Devs, which is why many of us play it.
As for your final statement, your actions on the forums suggests otherwise, I think you're embellishing the truth in an attempt to aggrandize yourself, and failing miserably.
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1308
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Posted - 2014.10.29 19:00:52 -
[742] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:IIshira wrote: What does any of this have to do with a video game???
I think one of them is trying to push forward the notion that the destruction by the conflict itself is essential for economic growth during war and in eve. Which is in itself a far stretch considering that war effort is planned well in forward, funded by potentially unlimited sources instead of true economic growth (bonds or more simply drafting the workforce) and the destruction of the results of human labor can be achieved by arbitrary means (1984 and floating fortresses so long in production they are obsolete when they leave the dry dock come to mind).
I understand that but this is a video game. The examples are real life. People that compare gankers in the game to ISIS terrorists that behead people and other in game fights to real battles where thousands of REAL people died are so far out of touch from reality. What's next.. PTSD from playing an MMO? |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
205
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Posted - 2014.10.29 19:03:19 -
[743] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Barton Breau wrote:IIshira wrote: What does any of this have to do with a video game???
I think one of them is trying to push forward the notion that the destruction by the conflict itself is essential for economic growth during war and in eve. Which is in itself a far stretch considering that war effort is planned well in forward, funded by potentially unlimited sources instead of true economic growth (bonds or more simply drafting the workforce) and the destruction of the results of human labor can be achieved by arbitrary means (1984 and floating fortresses so long in production they are obsolete when they leave the dry dock come to mind). I understand that but this is a video game. The examples are real life. People that compare gankers in the game to ISIS terrorists that behead people and other in game fights to real battles where thousands of REAL people died are so far out of touch from reality. What's next.. PTSD from playing an MMO?
PTSD not so far fetched....think of some of the null hellcamp victims. |
Nevil Oscillator
44
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 19:08:59 -
[744] - Quote
This Month I will mostly be going Loco in Lowsec
So your saying that isn't a graphics related issue ?
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21290
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 19:11:44 -
[745] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:This Month I will mostly be going Loco in Lowsec Loco on a POCO
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 22:19:39 -
[746] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:IIshira wrote:
I understand that but this is a video game. The examples are real life. People that compare gankers in the game to ISIS terrorists that behead people and other in game fights to real battles where thousands of REAL people died are so far out of touch from reality. What's next.. PTSD from playing an MMO?
PTSD not so far fetched....think of some of the null hellcamp victims.
Drawing paralels if one discusses a subject is not uncommon, while i would not call gate campers terrorists, not everything can be just waved away with "it is not real".
Imagine CCP having a metldown and trying that argument upon loosing all your account data :) |
Nevil Oscillator
44
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Posted - 2014.10.29 22:30:26 -
[747] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:
Drawing paralels if one discusses a subject is not uncommon, while i would not call gate campers terrorists, not everything can be just waved away with "it is not real".
Imagine CCP having a metldown and trying that argument upon loosing all your account data :)
What ? Terrorists did it ? I can't say it would surprise me, seems to be the excuse everyone uses these days
So your saying that isn't a graphics related issue ?
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 22:52:37 -
[748] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Barton Breau wrote:
Drawing paralels if one discusses a subject is not uncommon, while i would not call gate campers terrorists, not everything can be just waved away with "it is not real".
Imagine CCP having a metldown and trying that argument upon loosing all your account data :)
What ? Terrorists did it ? I can't say it would surprise me, seems to be the excuse everyone uses these days
No, "it's not real", but yours would probably work better :) |
Nevil Oscillator
44
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Posted - 2014.10.30 01:15:16 -
[749] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:
No, "it's not real", but yours would probably work better :)
Eve clearly isn't designed to be a prediction of the future based on probability, it is purposefully designed the way it is. The appeal of just living normal life in that Universe is probably there more by accident than pirating is. Eve characters are very detached having little if anything of a background compared to what a real person has, there is an appeal of being someone different, an alter ego that does all the bad things or heroic character, perhaps you grow out of that, I wouldn't like to say. It is possible for players to collectively frown upon some behaviour but characters don't really connect with society the way real people do to a large extent, it won't be very effective. I think economic reasons might provide some recourse because someone somewhere wants those mining ships to keep supplying them
or they don't.
So your saying that isn't a graphics related issue ?
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Desimus Maximus
Embargo.
127
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Posted - 2014.10.30 08:02:20 -
[750] - Quote
The Mittani.
Shadoo.
BRAVE.
nuff said. |
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