Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 .. 86 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Erihn Sabrovich
11
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 15:57:55 -
[1861] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote: I'm speechless.
Have you perhaps considered that your anti-me post is based on a false premise? Not that it matters. If the vocal mass of the playerbase is like you, CCP Rise's comment now actually makes sense.
There may be more people thinking this way than you think... And, as you said, this would give more sense to Rise's comment which tend to point that this may be a fact.
Don't forget that CCP has more information about what REALLY happens in their game than any player can have... The premise may not be so untrue that you'd like to think...
|
Erihn Sabrovich
11
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 16:03:31 -
[1862] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Like if ccp came out and said they were going to up base attribute because they felt progression was to show you would not have nearly the number of people upset. The ideal thing would be to remove attribute implants and attributes themselves and set the base training speed to 2700 sp/hour. That won't happen now though, since you have the option of buying skill injectors to compensate for suboptimal training.
I think that the attributes are a good think... if you plan carefully your skill training, you may make use of remap to speed things up... this is part of the gameplay...
The implants is something else : it is clearly a drawback for PvP players (who risks to lose them much more than PvE players)... So I can easily understand that you don't like them... Going PvP will full +5 is clearly a no-go... But, well, just like remap and the proposed dailies, it's OPTIONNAL... |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2187
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 16:57:11 -
[1863] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!
How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?
Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17677
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:02:51 -
[1864] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Malcanis wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on!
Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".
How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction? Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned? Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP.
Yes that's an awesome way to maintain standings
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17677
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:04:39 -
[1865] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!
How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?
By that argument CCP could achieve the same goal far more effectively and with far less effective discrimination between player activity by simply removing the skillqueue altogether. Don't log in? No more SP for you, just like it used to be in 2007.
After all, no one would be losing anything, right?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
494
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:12:59 -
[1866] - Quote
This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting. |
Erihn Sabrovich
11
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:23:33 -
[1867] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!
How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss
This way, not having +5 implants is also losing SP... Not spending PLEX or Multi character training is also losing SP...
Not connecting everyday is losing ISK (should you be trader, miner or anything else)
|
Ashterothi
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
387
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:30:42 -
[1868] - Quote
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!
How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss This way, not having +5 implants is also losing SP... Not spending PLEX or Multi character training is also losing SP... Not connecting everyday is losing ISK (should you be trader, miner or anything else)
Actually you are correct, not using +5s is losing out on potential SP. However this is a risk vs. reward situation.
Not optimizing your skill plan is also losing out on SP, but that is based on your ability to plan ahead and see it through.
However, this daily reward is a loss of potential based solely on if you are willing to put yourself as slave to the grind. Logging in, day in, day out, without fail. If you have a field op in the military? SP Lost. Going for a week long vacation? Better bring a laptop and hope for good wifi.
In the old system, I could get over the fact that I can't play for a while by loading up +5s, optimizing my plan, and walking away, confident that my progress was going to be awesome, because I was ready, but now I have to deal with the fact that I can't play EVE AND I am losing out of my advancement because of it.
One of the fundamental awesome things about EVE is that progress IS NOT TIED to activity in a direct lock in. I can understand that changing some, having more impact than full optimization, AND full implants is simply too much. The feeling of double punishment if you can't log in is enough to cause people to just not come back.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
|
Mizhir
TURN LEFT
74736
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:36:19 -
[1869] - Quote
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!
How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? Because the human brain treats missing a profitable opportunity the same way it treats a loss This way, not having +5 implants is also losing SP... Not spending PLEX or Multi character training is also losing SP... Not connecting everyday is losing ISK (should you be trader, miner or anything else)
The difference is that all those things are fully in the control of the players. You decide if you want to spend 7 hours 1 day or 1 hour 7 days to farm the isk needed for these things.
Dailies on the other hand take this out of the hands of the players. You have to log in each day instead of just playing more on 1-2 days a week.
One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17679
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:38:24 -
[1870] - Quote
Ravcharas wrote:This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting.
Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2781
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:40:23 -
[1871] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Malcanis wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on!
Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".
How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction? Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned? Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP. Yes that's an awesome way to maintain standings
I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17679
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:45:34 -
[1872] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Malcanis wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Malcanis wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on!
Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".
How about people who live in NPC 0.0 who want to maintain standings with the local faction? Those PvErs can go fly a kite as far as you're concerned? Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP. Yes that's an awesome way to maintain standings I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them...
Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
2195
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:49:59 -
[1873] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them...
Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about.
And you can't just kill one rat because if you fail you lose standings
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17684
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:59:53 -
[1874] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Malcanis wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them...
Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about. And you can't just kill one rat because if you fail you lose standings
In before "Nullseccers aren't real PvEers"
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2781
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 18:01:39 -
[1875] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!
How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? By that argument CCP could achieve the same goal far more effectively and with far less effective discrimination between player activity by simply removing the skillqueue altogether. Don't log in? No more SP for you, just like it used to be in 2007. After all, no one would be losing anything, right?
No one would be losing any SP. It's still CCP's choice how they want to achieve something. If they want to eliminate the skillqueu, they'll face a different backlash from the playerbase and they know that. They know the "infinite" skillqueue is what cost them the extra log-ins they use to have. Why they are going with opportunity instead of just backing out on the queue change is something we probably never will really know.
BTW, the skillqueu being nothing would probably not bring as much log-ins as a daily mostly because we can all train skills that last way over 24 hours. Even newbies can train a few days long without having to put a new skill in. |
Ria Nieyli
43719
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 18:02:07 -
[1876] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Malcanis wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
I meant a mission for the faction/corp you want to keep your standings. They should not ask you to kill rats that will destroy your standings toward them...
Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about. And you can't just kill one rat because if you fail you lose standings In before "Nullseccers aren't real PvEers"
Ha! As if. Have you seen the monthly economy reports?
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
|
Ria Nieyli
43719
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 18:08:16 -
[1877] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:No one would be losing any SP. It's still CCP's choice how they want to achieve something. If they want to eliminate the skillqueu, they'll face a different backlash from the playerbase and they know that. They know the "infinite" skillqueue is what cost them the extra log-ins they use to have. Why they are going with opportunity instead of just backing out on the queue change is something we probably never will really know.
BTW, the skillqueu being nothing would probably not bring as much log-ins as a daily mostly because we can all train skills that last way over 24 hours. Even newbies can train a few days long without having to put a new skill in.
So you've been playing EVE longer than I have. Please explain your failure to grasp basic game mechanics in two paragraphs max.
Malcanis wrote:In before "Nullseccers aren't real PvEers"
Ha! As if. Have you seen the monthly economy reports?
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
2196
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 18:19:09 -
[1878] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Malcanis wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Well, the dailies will just enhance the missing SP problem. Can't log in today? Enjoy your 10,000 SP loss. But don't worry, if you miss any, you can make it back by, you guessed it, buying skill injectors!
How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place? By that argument CCP could achieve the same goal far more effectively and with far less effective discrimination between player activity by simply removing the skillqueue altogether. Don't log in? No more SP for you, just like it used to be in 2007. After all, no one would be losing anything, right? No one would be losing any SP. It's still CCP's choice how they want to achieve something. If they want to eliminate the skillqueu, they'll face a different backlash from the playerbase and they know that. They know the "infinite" skillqueue is what cost them the extra log-ins they use to have. Why they are going with opportunity instead of just backing out on the queue change is something we probably never will really know. BTW, the skillqueu being nothing would probably not bring as much log-ins as a daily mostly because we can all train skills that last way over 24 hours. Even newbies can train a few days long without having to put a new skill in.
No you see you would only be able to train a skill for 24hrs it's easy every 24hrs you're skill queue passes.
Also not getting SP is the same as losing even from what I understand the literal interpretation of losing is. Last I checked it was simply being deprived something. You don't need to have something first in order to be deprived of it
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
495
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 18:20:11 -
[1879] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ravcharas wrote:This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting. Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat. Automating this task seems quite attractive when you consider how short the task-time and exposure is compared to the reward.
*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that the input pattern of a human and a bot would be rather difficult to tell apart when it's just a five minute session 'on your lunchbreak.' |
Ria Nieyli
43719
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 18:23:57 -
[1880] - Quote
Ravcharas wrote:Malcanis wrote:Ravcharas wrote:This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting. Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat. Automating this task seems quite attractive when you consider how short the task-time and exposure is compared to the reward. *shrug* Maybe I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that the input pattern of a human and a bot would be rather difficult to tell apart when it's just a five minute session 'on your lunchbreak.'
Actually, it's extremely trivial to spot. Bots do things that humans don't, because they can't. You just need to be looking.
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
|
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
2196
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 18:36:01 -
[1881] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Ravcharas wrote:Malcanis wrote:Ravcharas wrote:This, by the by, is a huge incentive for botting. Eh, not really, because by the very nature of botting, the main effort is starting it up. That's no easier than just logging in 'normally' and killing a rat. Automating this task seems quite attractive when you consider how short the task-time and exposure is compared to the reward. *shrug* Maybe I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that the input pattern of a human and a bot would be rather difficult to tell apart when it's just a five minute session 'on your lunchbreak.' Actually, it's extremely trivial to spot. Bots do things that humans don't, because they can't. You just need to be looking.
And the last time I was in null I saw just how good ccp was at spotting and stopping bots
Doesn't matter though not our not it's the same to ccp in this case
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Ria Nieyli
43719
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 18:54:24 -
[1882] - Quote
Bot extermination is a lot more layered and nuanced than simply spotting them. Usually you see a banwave every few months, but I'd rather not get into it.
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
|
Gevlin
Fink Operations The Volition Cult
281
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 02:04:26 -
[1883] - Quote
So this is a fix caused by the lack of numbers Logging on due to the unlimited skill que.
So if I had a choice of a 24 hour skill que or the unlimited skill que and the daily rewards system. I will take the unlimited skill que and take the bitter daily opportunities. I only log in and actively play once a week most times.
Though I would prefer a lesser amount as the reward.
Sure the other guy may be earning more than me upto 20%, but they are also putting them selves at risk of loss of ISK, and grinding some time to complete a menial task. Their effect is minor to me because they are not flooding the market, With the character bizzar in 2007 in operation a newbie could out point me with cash already.
In the end there are 2 resources: real life money and time played, ISK, SP, Items, Aurum all can be bought either directly or indirectly via these two methods. This Daily rewards, knee jerk as it is to me emotionally, in the king run is a 'meh' thing when looking in the big picture how it effects me directly.
On the other hand if it increases log ins and more ships in space, will mean a longer lasting game and my skill points I have earned over the last 9 years will still continue to provide me with benefits in many years to come.
Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2520
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 03:05:33 -
[1884] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:So this is a fix caused by the lack of numbers Logging on due to the unlimited skill que.
So if I had a choice of a 24 hour skill que or the unlimited skill que and the daily rewards system. I will take the unlimited skill que and take the bitter daily opportunities. I only log in and actively play once a week most times.
Though I would prefer a lesser amount as the reward.
Sure the other guy may be earning more than me upto 20%, but they are also putting them selves at risk of loss of ISK, and grinding some time to complete a menial task. Their effect is minor to me because they are not flooding the market, With the character bizzar in 2007 in operation a newbie could out point me with cash already.
In the end there are 2 resources: real life money and time played, ISK, SP, Items, Aurum all can be bought either directly or indirectly via these two methods. This Daily rewards, knee jerk as it is to me emotionally, in the king run is a 'meh' thing when looking in the big picture how it effects me directly.
On the other hand if it increases log ins and more ships in space, will mean a longer lasting game and my skill points I have earned over the last 9 years will still continue to provide me with benefits in many years to come.
This is a fairly reasonable way of accepting the situation. I find myself in a similar position. Resignation is much easier than beating your head against the wall.
I have decided to trim from six down to five accounts, because I don't feel like managing six daily opportunities every time I log in. I also don't feel that the game is on a great trajectory. I am not ready to bail out, because I still love my corporation, but the game play gets less and less fun. Spending basically three straight weekends lighting cynos and waiting off jump fatigue is a great way to get burned out on Eve. Fortunately, starting Tuesday, I'll be on vacation for a week or so. Hopefully I come back rejuvenated just in time for the next patch.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3467
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 04:32:59 -
[1885] - Quote
To a certain extent I expect the next news on this will be discussions at Fanfest. If you are going the keep an eye open for PvE and engagement roundtables. Wish I could be there but I cannot.
A lot of you have done a great job of presenting your objections. I agree with some of them, others I don't. Some we on the CSM argued already. But our time is coming to an end. I recommend you start getting in contact with your new reps as soon as they are announced.
If this matters to you keep the calm steady pressure on.
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
|
Ashterothi
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
390
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 04:35:51 -
[1886] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:To a certain extent I expect the next news on this will be discussions at Fanfest. If you are going the keep an eye open for PvE and engagement roundtables. Wish I could be there but I cannot.
A lot of you have done a great job of presenting your objections. I agree with some of them, others I don't. Some we on the CSM argued already. But our time is coming to an end. I recommend you start getting in contact with your new reps as soon as they are announced.
If this matters to you keep the calm steady pressure on.
m Seeing you without a CSM tag feels so *wrong*
Thank you for your service.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2520
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 05:09:27 -
[1887] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:To a certain extent I expect the next news on this will be discussions at Fanfest. If you are going the keep an eye open for PvE and engagement roundtables. Wish I could be there but I cannot.
A lot of you have done a great job of presenting your objections. I agree with some of them, others I don't. Some we on the CSM argued already. But our time is coming to an end. I recommend you start getting in contact with your new reps as soon as they are announced.
If this matters to you keep the calm steady pressure on.
m
Thanks, Mike.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|
soliketotallydude
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 07:17:40 -
[1888] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Most missions involve killing more than 1 rat. And many of them take longer than the "coffee break" Rise was blathering about. An L1 mission takes rather less time than a typical coffee break (like... a minute tops in something like a beam confessor), and would be perfectly sufficient. |
Ashterothi
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
390
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 07:59:33 -
[1889] - Quote
What would be nice is that would actually make Level 1s have a meaningful purpose. Which would be nice, because some of them can be quite fun depending on the ship you bring.
Kinda like burners but with low quality equipment.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
|
Ria Nieyli
43751
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 08:15:49 -
[1890] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:What would be nice is that would actually make Level 1s have a meaningful purpose. Which would be nice, because some of them can be quite fun depending on the ship you bring.
Kinda like burners but with low quality equipment.
edit: They could also make level 1s more prominent, and add anoms to the list of things you can do, low tier anoms can be taken out pretty quick as well.
Would it though? People are saying that this is going to be a frustrating game mechanic as it is. If the requirements get shifted up from killing one rat to completing a level one missions, it's going to be even worse.
Mike Azariah wrote:To a certain extent I expect the next news on this will be discussions at Fanfest. If you are going the keep an eye open for PvE and engagement roundtables. Wish I could be there but I cannot.
A lot of you have done a great job of presenting your objections. I agree with some of them, others I don't. Some we on the CSM argued already. But our time is coming to an end. I recommend you start getting in contact with your new reps as soon as they are announced.
If this matters to you keep the calm steady pressure on.
m
See, here's the thing - if this has been discussed with the CSM, why did it make it through? Did the CSM not object? Were their objections just ignored? I don't know, but either way they have effectively done nothing. My confidence was already low after the replacement fiasco and now it's even lower. I simply do not believe in it as an effective tool.
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 .. 86 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |