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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
fugimi
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Posted - 2007.10.18 14:34:00 -
[1]
This is not the first time i have seen this type of activity in eve and i have reported it once before and i dont realy remember if i got a reply then or not but...
today while checking contracts i saw lots of fresh contracts selling a single ammo for hundreds of millions isk each.
those OVER HUNDRED contracts which most of them were created today all within an hour, were almost all accepted right after creation by a a dozen or more characters, all from swa (at least all the ones i checked). and by doing so they all moved large amount of isk to that centeral hub char which is named "Financial Department"
i have petitioned it under Rules & Policies / EULA & Terms of Service Twice, telling about this char, the contracts he made, and his contract history of over a hundred contracts all similar to what i described, all accepted by a dozen or more characters.
my petitions although gave the visual feedback of being sent does not appear to exist for some reason. maybe its delay i donno but until now i did not get a response and dont see them in petition history.
lets see if you could help answering a few questions that arise from all of this.
1: why would a character named "Financial Department" create hundred os these contracts ?
2: why would dozens swa characters accept those right after creation ?
3: why the 2 petitions i made about it seem to never existed ? (could be a delay and time will tell)
4: can it be this is a part of isk selling network and perhaps a part of a big loundry machine that trying to cover tracks between farmering chars to isk selling chars ?
5: could it be that ccp dismiss those activities as being perfectly legal scam contracts and nothing more, or maybe dont realy care about it anyway ?
lets get to the buttom of this shall we...
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Barbaro55a
Caldari Os Lobos
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Posted - 2007.10.18 14:38:00 -
[2]
Originally by: fugimi lets get to the buttom of this shall we...
No, i'm content in my ignorance.
Originally by: ISD Valorem If someone has hurt you out of game then please talk to family, friends or Police (if necessary)
Kind regards
Valorem
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Robinete Broadhead
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.18 14:41:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Robinete Broadhead on 18/10/2007 14:44:52 Financial Department
Interesting character, one month old, only one agent, nobby corp and has millions of ISK you say..
Nope nothing unusal here.
PS how do you see who takes the contract?
Yes, I am an ALT in a NOOB Corp.
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fugimi
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Posted - 2007.10.18 14:46:00 -
[4]
Edited by: fugimi on 18/10/2007 14:48:40
Originally by: Robinete Broadhead Financial Department
Interesting character, one month old, only one agent, nobby corp and has millions of ISK you say..
Nope nothing unusal here.
its not millions its dozens of billions those "over hundred" contracts r all somewhere between dozens of millions to hundred of millions to close to a billion each.
Edit: you can see who take the contracts by simple showing contract history on the char "Financial department" and opening each of the contracts in the list
if all of those dozens chars r indeed part of a farming fleet and they wanted to send isk to their "centeral bank char" why dont use normal isk transfer ? O.o why do they coordinate so many contracts and accept them all to move isk in parts using all sort of different sizes. some of those characters accepting multiple of those contracts each. that seem like so much work just to move legal isk.
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Barbaro55a
Caldari Os Lobos
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Posted - 2007.10.18 14:47:00 -
[5]
Towards the bottom left of someones bio, button that lefts you see their previous contracts ( i think) good for spotting time waisters.
Yes my spelling suks.
Originally by: ISD Valorem If someone has hurt you out of game then please talk to family, friends or Police (if necessary)
Kind regards
Valorem
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.18 14:49:00 -
[6]
PETITION A LOT If I was on EVE I'd do the same. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 million SP in Forum Warfare Originally by: CCP Wrangler Booooo!!! Tarminic sux!!!
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Making stuff
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Posted - 2007.10.18 15:15:00 -
[7]
Ah yes, ISK laundering 101.
You cant send isk to other players in the billions because it looks suspicious. Contracts aer a way to hide the suspicion.. you cant say they are famers, because maybe those 100 people who accepted the contracts actaulyl wanted to buy the ammo at that super high price.
CCP 0, Isk Farmers 1.
And I suspect that CCP cant do anything about it either because it is a legit game mechanic.
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Haleuth
Amarr White-Noise
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Posted - 2007.10.18 15:16:00 -
[8]
You'll achieve more if you pass the details onto voogru rather than petitioning it I'm afraid.
Haleuth |
Arvald
Caldari House of Tempers
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Posted - 2007.10.18 15:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Arvald on 18/10/2007 15:22:16
Originally by: Making stuff Ah yes, ISK laundering 101.
You cant send isk to other players in the billions because it looks suspicious. Contracts aer a way to hide the suspicion.. you cant say they are famers, because maybe those 100 people who accepted the contracts actaulyl wanted to buy the ammo at that super high price.
CCP 0, Isk Farmers 1.
And I suspect that CCP cant do anything about it either because it is a legit game mechanic.
seeing as how its in the EULA that its prety much ccp's account so they can do wahtever the hell they want to it, i dont see why they can jsut slap em with teh banzord --------------------------- ALL HAIL TO THE TECHNOVIKING |
Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.10.18 15:36:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 18/10/2007 15:37:26 Step1: Create Alt character named "Financal department" in the same noob corp as the "Financial department" character.
Step2: Set up in the same station as the "Financial department" character and offer the exact same contracts he/she is
Step3: PROFIT!!!
Step4: Laugh all the way to the bank at the stupid ISK sellers, and the morons that buy from them.
Alternate Step4: Report all the character names that fell for your "sting" to the GM's, and THEN laugh all the way to the bank.
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EliteSlave
Minmatar Tau Ceti Global Production Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.18 15:42:00 -
[11]
Somepeople do have alts that are for selling stuff in Empire because their Main cannot enter empire.....
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2007.10.18 16:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: EliteSlave Somepeople do have alts that are for selling stuff in Empire because their Main cannot enter empire.....
You're joking right?
If you're not... *swooosh*
/Ki
Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.10.18 16:28:00 -
[13]
Still, contract traffic at a scale he's describing is borderline abuse.
Real or not, CCP should know. Petition it. -
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.18 16:32:00 -
[14]
There is 3-5 lowsec systems all chained together, few times a week in the early hours of the morning, its little Jita with 98% of the haulers china farmers/ISK laundering NPC chars all using the market, to "wash" there isk, few times I've been there, there are probably about 40-60 in local.
Its probably been going on for months, under the radar of CCP, but yet no one does anything.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.10.18 17:15:00 -
[15]
to the op,
U sir are to be applauded for ur investigative patience.
I hope u get them banned if they are indeed doing something illegal and keep us informed, impo this thread was rather entertaining to read. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.18 17:54:00 -
[16]
There are "buyers" there paying over 300M for a single unit of a light missile. Of course they are all rich pilots just wanting to buy cheap ammo...
As well as some of the "buyers" have been accepting auctions for over a year paying 50M+ for every unit of ammo they bid on, that sounds right... right?
Secure 3rd party service. |
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General Apocalypse
Amarr Ship Research
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Posted - 2007.10.18 18:02:00 -
[17]
There are 2 possibilities
1. The most probable would be isk selling
2. Contracts are also a ye old way to wash black ops cash bypassing internal security detection . Hilly skilled black ops officer are not allowed to work for non corp interest but the need for cash prevails some times . A black ops contract can rage from a 500 M payment to 50 B . But the payment is done in small chunks so the wallet logs of the alts doesn't attract unneeded attention .
Originally by: CCP Morpheus nerf ccp plz
Originally by: CCP Oveur To the gankmobile!
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Financ1al Department
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Posted - 2007.10.18 18:10:00 -
[18]
Lets see if they fall for this one heh
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ZeroMbutCannotJump
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Posted - 2007.10.18 18:15:00 -
[19]
Here is my contribution. I painstakingly went through all the already accepted contacts I could find and made an excel spreadsheet. Tons of contracts are up and waiting for more reverse transfers to occur. I noticed the names for the most part follow a similar convention. Two words, first is capital and second is not. Random nouns, sometimes with a strange adjective thrown in. All sound weird and very "babel fish Asian" like. I opened convo with one and pasted some romanized Chinese. He replied within 10 seconds with some complicated stuff...no idea what it means.
Anyways, here is the list:
Name / Age / Corp / ISK "donated"
scene obtains ....16dSWA120 Appropriately shows ....16dSWA50 Swims across ....16dSWA70 Diligent me ....20dSWA160 Bans entire ....20dSWA110 Evaluation because ....20dSWA70 Makes you ....30dSWA230 Financial department ....1m 1dPTS Excessive you ....1m 2dSWA110 Increases Uniform ....1m 3dSWA245 Machine cat ....1m 3dSWA200 Machine cat ....1m 3dSWA200 may read .... 1m 3dSWA126 Punishes pulls ....1m 3dSWA30 Chest cavity ....1m 3dSWA199 granulated substance ....1m 3dSWA260 Right seizes ....1m 3dSWA140 Expanded eye ....1m 3dSWA120 recompenses ....1m 3dSWA90 Greatly happy .... 1m 3dSWA580 Cartridge case ....1m 3dSWA100 Opens pleasure ....1m 3dSWA100 Opens pleasure ....1m 3dSWA100 Assembly hall ....1m 3dSWA102 Origin you ....1m 3dSWA78 Practices divination ....1m 3dSWA140 Geography law ....1m 3dSWA175 Resists stubbornly ....1m 3dSWA292 Thinks every ....1m 3dSWA199 Sigh magnetism ....1m 3dSWA120 has you ....1m 3dSWA100 Publication ....1m 3dSWA100 Military person ....1m 3dSWA270 Doublet smoke ....1m 3dSWA200 Law net ....1m 3dSWA113 Pleasure place ....1m 3dSWA50 pressure energy ....1m 3dSWA140 Regardless minute ....1m 3dSWA89 Unimpeded ....1m 3dSWA105 Micrometer calipers ....1m 3dSWA200 Sikong race ....1m 3dSWA200
Sorry for the horrible formating. Anyways, who knows how much these people have actually made and sold (Only CCP, if they wanted)... this could be only one of their transaction methods...and only one of their "nodes."
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Terminus adacai
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.18 18:16:00 -
[20]
I have seen the same thing done on the market. When you see people buying 50 mil isk industrial haulers on a large scale, you know something is up.
Putting up contracts though makes it public knowledge of both parties involved. Go get em CCP
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
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SengH
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.18 18:29:00 -
[21]
if you wanna see something really suspcious
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=84993
hai guys im a 1 month old noob who suddenly has the isk to buy 20billion isk worth of skillbooks and move it in a shuttle.
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Sarkkon
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:16:00 -
[22]
yeah.. this is how they launder ISK. Another thing to take serious notice of is the 18-30 macro makinaws in all high sec ICE belts running 23/7. ISK sellers now have almost ALL empire ice mined and stashed away. ICE is rapidly climbing to 120k per unit. Belts have less them a month life left... then no more empire ice.. period. NPC reseach slots now all seem back logged at least 3 -6 months on slots. We are looking at the death of player owned emprie research stations. Once ice is gone from empire i am sure macro's will shove fuel down our throats at 1000x normal prices. they WANT to sell ISK and runaway inflation and mopolization of resources is the way they do it. Over the last 5 years i have watched them kill off 5 diffrent online games with same tactics. And the game devs fall for it the same way.. restrict and remove the items that are becomeing glutted. Speeding and assisting the ISK mafia to their economic domination of game.
Oh.. and as far as low sec ICE... I am sure the ISK sellers will set up 23/7 blockade encampments of these systems.. they never sleep or take time off or get tired. They share accounts across muliple players. they are always on and always rested and alert.
Check this post 3 months from now. and tell me i have it wrong. EVE is dying... we need to act now to save it.
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John McShip
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Bish Ounen Edited by: Bish Ounen on 18/10/2007 15:37:26 Step1: Create Alt character named "Financal department" in the same noob corp as the "Financial department" character.
Step2: Set up in the same station as the "Financial department" character and offer the exact same contracts he/she is
Step3: PROFIT!!!
Step4: Laugh all the way to the bank at the stupid ISK sellers, and the morons that buy from them.
Alternate Step4: Report all the character names that fell for your "sting" to the GM's, and THEN laugh all the way to the bank.
Then look at your wallet value! what's this negative sign
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Hana Lena
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:48:00 -
[24]
We need a CCP resopnce to this Bull**** .... now ADHD + Dyslexia = BAD SPELLING F.N.A. F! T! W! Meow Mix! Bacon! DOOM!
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Serious Rikk
Pangalactic Aquisitions
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: SengH if you wanna see something really suspcious
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=84993
hai guys im a 1 month old noob who suddenly has the isk to buy 20billion isk worth of skillbooks and move it in a shuttle.
Nah, that's not suspicious Stupid maybe, but not suspicious. -- Noble Scumbag
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Luigi Thirty
Caldari 19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: SengH if you wanna see something really suspcious
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=84993
hai guys im a 1 month old noob who suddenly has the isk to buy 20billion isk worth of skillbooks and move it in a shuttle.
I'd have to say that's more of a trading alt than a farmer. ---- DOMINIX IS INVINCIBLE:(((( |
SengH
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:20:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Luigi Thirty
Originally by: SengH if you wanna see something really suspcious
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=84993
hai guys im a 1 month old noob who suddenly has the isk to buy 20billion isk worth of skillbooks and move it in a shuttle.
I'd have to say that's more of a trading alt than a farmer.
with 51 capital ship skillbooks... yeahhhhh. How long would that take to sell ?
Remember how CCP said they paid attention to low value items being traded at high values? 1 bil isk for 1 trit is pretty obvious.. but 1bil isk trades for something with a base value of 310mil isk would probably fly under the radar.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.18 21:49:00 -
[28]
Originally by: ZeroMbutCannotJump Here is my contribution. I painstakingly went through all the already accepted contacts I could find and made an excel spreadsheet. Tons of contracts are up and waiting for more reverse transfers to occur. I noticed the names for the most part follow a similar convention. Two words, first is capital and second is not. Random nouns, sometimes with a strange adjective thrown in. All sound weird and very "babel fish Asian" like. I opened convo with one and pasted some romanized Chinese. He replied within 10 seconds with some complicated stuff...no idea what it means.
Sorry for the horrible formating. Anyways, who knows how much these people have actually made and sold (Only CCP, if they wanted)... this could be only one of their transaction methods...and only one of their "nodes."
Assembly hall .... 1m 3d SWA 102
^^^ thats one of the names that I saw in the lowsec system going back and fourth in a Bestower between 2 systems like the rest of them.
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Suboran
Gallente Sphinx Inc Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.10.18 22:55:00 -
[29]
hey, check through the people who accept the contracts, and look at there contract history, u can follow the huge network i suspect.
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.18 23:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Financ1al Department Lets see if they fall for this one heh
Good luck. I recommend petitioning CCP to inform them that the character is a tar trap for isk sellers. Otherwise there may be issues with that account.
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Quote: Astarte Nosferatu > You'd mind if I ask for your asl? SirMolle > eh?
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mechtech
Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2007.10.18 23:26:00 -
[31]
CCP, could you hire someone who does nothing else than tracks/bans isk sellers? It's not that hard to track them, they use random name generators to create the char names, are logged 23/7, and have highly unusual practices that differ from normal pilots...
Anyway, I hope to see all of those chars in that excel spread banned, or at the very least get a word from CCP that they're stepping things up.
It's starting to affect actual gameplay now, the isk is getting devalued. It only takes about 2 hours of 0.0 ratting to buy a fully T2 fitted BS these days, isk should mean more.
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Garat Mant
Minmatar Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2007.10.18 23:51:00 -
[32]
Originally by: mechtech CCP, could you hire someone who does nothing else than tracks/bans isk sellers? It's not that hard to track them, they use random name generators to create the char names, are logged 23/7, and have highly unusual practices that differ from normal pilots...
Anyway, I hope to see all of those chars in that excel spread banned, or at the very least get a word from CCP that they're stepping things up.
It's starting to affect actual gameplay now, the isk is getting devalued. It only takes about 2 hours of 0.0 ratting to buy a fully T2 fitted BS these days, isk should mean more.
Heck I'd do this for free, 10 hours a week. --
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Daimos Bellurdan
Black Reign
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Posted - 2007.10.18 23:59:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Daimos Bellurdan on 18/10/2007 23:59:38 If ccp had wanted to find and ban the macroers/isk sellers they would have done it already. Right now they simply do not care enough to devote resources to solve the "problem". I bet anyone with a bit of sql knowledge and access to the db for a week could find the selling networks. The question is just how to motivate ccp to doing it.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2007.10.18 23:59:00 -
[34]
Yea, we all have seen those low sec hauling mission farmers with 10 ISk ships, who by the hundreds just keep coming, no matter how many you kill. And this is just the latest in the ongoing abuse of EVE mechanic by the RMT interests.
I think, CCP should post regular updates for the player base, preferably on the first of each month, that show/account for their "fight" against ISK sellers.
Number of Accounts Banned Amount of ISK confiscated Was it part of the ring? Delineate the numbers via accounts ISK/Sellers and ISK buyers - so we know how many of each sort are killed off.
The fact that this is going on, and on, and on, is just a bit much.
A dev response to this thread would probably be welcomed by all but the ISK sellers.
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Caldreean
Dawnwalkers
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Posted - 2007.10.19 00:57:00 -
[35]
You guys are missing the big picture. Each of these accounts over 2 weeks old is a paying account. CCP wants RL ISK. These guys aren't going anywhere as long as they are paying CCP's salaries.
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Acoco Osiris
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.19 01:00:00 -
[36]
I've noticed this crap too. It most likely is ISK laundering. Too bad it's real tough to prove somebody's a farmer. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars. |
Sawny Bean
Xeno Tech Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.19 01:11:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Caldreean You guys are missing the big picture. Each of these accounts over 2 weeks old is a paying account. CCP wants RL ISK. These guys aren't going anywhere as long as they are paying CCP's salaries.
Spot on and this is why gtc for isk is a bad idea.
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NOK NOK
Bounteous Immortals TALIONIS ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2007.10.19 01:19:00 -
[38]
im now forming my own Anti-isk seller mission
im going hunting for them, finding out the contract scammers, launderers, the isk sellers.
I am creating a sheet to write down all suspcious activity, money transfers etc...
I will update you all once i have some numbers. I am going to devote 15-20 hours a week on this project. Until CCP do something about it.
we are paying customers to and are sticking to the rules of the game, yet the scammers/isk sellers are paying aswell but breaking the rules which means less fun for the legit nice people.
ISK Farmers/Sellers beware my Ship is coming for you and so is my spreadsheet... prepare for banned accounts.
CEO of Bounteous Immortals Talionis Alliance
Bounteous we are, Immortal you are not.... |
Ryunosuke Kusanagi
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Posted - 2007.10.19 01:47:00 -
[39]
recently... a...alliance mate of mine, went through some CCP issues with large isk trading between alts (not a known isk seller afaik) but apparently due to the large amounts of isk being traded between legitimate accounts, CCP apparently flagged it as an ISK sell, is there a rule that says that you cannot trade isks to other characters on your account? what about on other accounts that you pay for?
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RnProphet
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Posted - 2007.10.19 02:27:00 -
[40]
CCP needs to hit ISK and macro rings like the cops smack down meth labs *cop knock* *tear gass* *screams*
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Pooka
Caldari United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2007.10.19 02:41:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan Edited by: Daimos Bellurdan on 18/10/2007 23:59:38 If ccp had wanted to find and ban the macroers/isk sellers they would have done it already. Right now they simply do not care enough to devote resources to solve the "problem". I bet anyone with a bit of sql knowledge and access to the db for a week could find the selling networks. The question is just how to motivate ccp to doing it.
I think you are correct, CCP does really care all that much about this. It is thier game, they are making major profit and living large. They put alot into getting this going so they aren't going to rock the boat. Wish they had the same drive to fix the ISK seller problem.
Now the bigger questions are Who are the Sellers and Who are the buyyers? Which Allainace is selling and/ or buying. Now that would be interesting to find out.
PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT IT IS HAPPENING AGAIN...TRUST NO ONE
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Lightningheart
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Posted - 2007.10.19 03:00:00 -
[42]
I always see them around the Jovainnon and Hevrice systems. Always flying (Amarr) bestowers, always Caldari characters in the State War Academy. They are definitely Chinese, a few of them have Chinese names. I thought about pirating them but I couldn't actually find them in the asteroid belts, just docking, undocking, and at the gates. I tried chatting in Chinese on local but they never replied; however, once I saw one of them in a Raven fighting a small-time pirate and that one was trash-talking in Mandarin on local. So far no other has spoken.
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Wacoede
Amarr Allied Combat Team Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.10.19 03:14:00 -
[43]
hey here's an idea that might just work
we all know motherships are tough to beat in low-sec so why not send them to the systems where these isk sellers are and have them camp THOSE gates
I don't think anyone would ***** about that ____________________________________________
An Idea about Bounties V2 |
Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2007.10.19 04:06:00 -
[44]
Kudos to the OP for making this sort of thing public. I hope CCP will do something nasty to those characters... like a banzor stick up the arse.
And lol at a lot of those names. __________________________________________________ FOLD. The Ultimate PVP. It really is Us vs. Them. clicky |
voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.19 05:38:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Haleuth You'll achieve more if you pass the details onto voogru rather than petitioning it I'm afraid.
I'm taking a break from EVE. The farmers, and the difficulty of me trying to get them dealt with is too much and way too aggrivating for me. Spamming petitions of utterly blatant farmers and watching them get away with it for months and months makes me feel as if I am wasting my time.
Sure, sometimes they banstick them, but not enough.
I'll come back when I feel that CCP will be a bit more proactive against farmers. I tried everything I could, and I'm still willing to do stuff, provided that CCP is willing to listen.
Originally by: Bish Ounen Edited by: Bish Ounen on 18/10/2007 15:37:26 Step1: Create Alt character named "Financal department" in the same noob corp as the "Financial department" character.
Step2: Set up in the same station as the "Financial department" character and offer the exact same contracts he/she is
Step3: PROFIT!!!
Step4: Laugh all the way to the bank at the stupid ISK sellers, and the morons that buy from them.
Alternate Step4: Report all the character names that fell for your "sting" to the GM's, and THEN laugh all the way to the bank.
Exploit.
And...
They filter by name now on contracts. Your idea will probably not work. This would have probably worked with escrow however.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.19 06:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Haleuth You'll achieve more if you pass the details onto voogru rather than petitioning it I'm afraid.
I'm taking a break from EVE. The farmers, and the difficulty of me trying to get them dealt with is too much and way too aggrivating for me. Spamming petitions of utterly blatant farmers and watching them get away with it for months and months makes me feel as if I am wasting my time.
Sure, sometimes they banstick them, but not enough.
I'll come back when I feel that CCP will be a bit more proactive against farmers. I tried everything I could, and I'm still willing to do stuff, provided that CCP is willing to listen.
What you saying there is actually hope one day soon I can sail my nano Opux yacht into Jita
But your right and I don't blame you, trade channels are at a all time high with ISK spammers, seems asking CCP to do something about it is like asking them to take there fish out of the water. After all if the lazy Eve player who can't buy there isk, whats the chances there going to keep paying ccp.
In any high lvl agent system on any given hour there is aleast 5-10 farmers farming the fields.
I have seen on a weekly bases threads like this, very little input from CCP.
You have to wonder sometimes.
Tbh I don't see anything happen to combat it any time soon why ? , well with all the upgrades and Rev 3 just around the corner, it seems thats where CCPs time is spent.
Cya around voogru
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.19 06:10:00 -
[47]
BTW this is what I'm talking about, since I typed the above thats all you see in the ship channel...
You going to tell me that's acceptable CCP ?
Make me ship admin, I will ban then in Secs
waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK Ikta Shoridon > WTS ARCHON IN BIO waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK Rach NiKunni > <url=contract:30002187//4176592>[Multiple Items]</url> -- Rigged Megathron Rach NiKunni > <url=contract:30003488//4211425>[Multiple Items]</url> -- rigged Mymidon waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.ο。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK emptiness > wts rorqual 2b waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK Carita Cartwright > WTS <url=showinfo:20185>Charon</url> waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
|
Posted - 2007.10.19 06:21:00 -
[48]
Originally by: F90OEX BTW this is what I'm talking about, since I typed the above thats all you see in the ship channel...
You going to tell me that's acceptable CCP ?
Make me ship admin, I will ban then in Secs
waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK Ikta Shoridon > WTS ARCHON IN BIO waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK Rach NiKunni > <url=contract:30002187//4176592>[Multiple Items]</url> -- Rigged Megathron Rach NiKunni > <url=contract:30003488//4211425>[Multiple Items]</url> -- rigged Mymidon waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.ο。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK emptiness > wts rorqual 2b waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK Carita Cartwright > WTS <url=showinfo:20185>Charon</url> waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK waropqrstvwxyz > sorry. Fast & Reliable at www.。cOm, As lOw as $58.21/1000 M ISK
Yeah, see what I mean.
I'm off playing a game where farmers don't exist.
You get lamers instead, but see, I can ban them.
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ZeroMbutCannotJump
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Posted - 2007.10.19 06:34:00 -
[49]
Originally by: ZeroMbutCannotJump
Name / Age / Corp / ISK "donated" (in millions)
scene obtains ....16dSWA120 Appropriately shows ....16dSWA50 Swims across ....16dSWA70 Diligent me ....20dSWA160 Bans entire ....20dSWA110 Evaluation because ....20dSWA70 Makes you ....30dSWA230 Financial department ....1m 1dPTS Excessive you ....1m 2dSWA110 Increases Uniform ....1m 3dSWA245 Machine cat ....1m 3dSWA200 Machine cat ....1m 3dSWA200 may read .... 1m 3dSWA126 Punishes pulls ....1m 3dSWA30 Chest cavity ....1m 3dSWA199 granulated substance ....1m 3dSWA260 Right seizes ....1m 3dSWA140 Expanded eye ....1m 3dSWA120 recompenses ....1m 3dSWA90 Greatly happy .... 1m 3dSWA580 Cartridge case ....1m 3dSWA100 Opens pleasure ....1m 3dSWA100 Opens pleasure ....1m 3dSWA100 Assembly hall ....1m 3dSWA102 Origin you ....1m 3dSWA78 Practices divination ....1m 3dSWA140 Geography law ....1m 3dSWA175 Resists stubbornly ....1m 3dSWA292 Thinks every ....1m 3dSWA199 Sigh magnetism ....1m 3dSWA120 has you ....1m 3dSWA100 Publication ....1m 3dSWA100 Military person ....1m 3dSWA270 Doublet smoke ....1m 3dSWA200 Law net ....1m 3dSWA113 Pleasure place ....1m 3dSWA50 pressure energy ....1m 3dSWA140 Regardless minute ....1m 3dSWA89 Unimpeded ....1m 3dSWA105 Micrometer calipers ....1m 3dSWA200 Sikong race ....1m 3dSWA200
HOLY ****!
Moving past just checking the contract history of Financial department, I checked the contract histories of the above listed characters who have been giving ISK to him via reverse transfer.
Sigh magnetismm in the 1 month 4 days he has existed, has given 1.109 billion ISK to YET ANOTHER NODE LEADER named Golden leader and 610m ISK to the Node Leader Financial department.
So I looked up Golden leader and it opened a whole new list of names. Scores of them.
All still follow the same pattern, with a few variations here and there. Some of the characters who donate to this Node Leader are 10 months+ old. The older ones have Chinese pinyin names, like Jin Jisi for example. He is from SWA also, like all the others, no corp history, 5.0 security status, 10 months 5 days old. His contract historry is HUGE, and links to other Node Leaders like another guy named Regiment warehouse.
Regiment warehouse links up with hundreds of other similarly named people, all giving hundreds of millions of ISK in exchange for 1 garbage or 1 light missile or 1 L iron charge. I cannot find an end. The history is all right there for all players to look through. I estimate hundreds+++ of characters are involved, all basically identical to each other. The ISK that has been transfered is in the 100+ billion range from the looks of it, and could quite possibly extend to hundreds of billions or trillions over the last year or so.
If I, a lone player, can find all this, what is stopping CCP from also tracing IPs and looking at who the ISK ends up with, and monitoring all other aspects of their game"play" to the point to where they can defiantly known all of them are farmers (the E-bay type)?
If they are so stupid as to use PUBLIC CONTRACTS to transfer money, I'm sure they are making tons of other mistakes that CCP has full control over to monitor etc.
This is such an easy case. CCP, spend some time investigating, then BAN THEM ALL unless they can produce some sort of a CRAZY good explanation that makes sense as to why this activity is going on.
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.19 06:56:00 -
[50]
Originally by: ZeroMbutCannotJump
This is such an easy case. CCP, spend some time investigating, then BAN THEM ALL unless they can produce some sort of a CRAZY good explanation that makes sense as to why this activity is going on.
There is no legitimate explanation.
They should all be banned immediatly.
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fugimi
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Posted - 2007.10.19 07:27:00 -
[51]
ok encourage from the growing interest and support for my post i decided to invest more of my time to bring more info.
those r the chars who reversed transfered isk to Financial Department as listen in his contract history:
Passenger Vehicle 90 + 170 + 310 = 570mil Periodical Stops 140 + 150 + 240 = 530mil Bill Exchange 100 + 160 + 108 = 368mil Fahaiheshang 150 + 300 = 450mil Pressure Energy 200 + 150 + 140 = 490mil Periodical Pays 200 + 200 + 50 + 260 = 710mil Starts Spatially 80 + 200 + 100 + 80 + 100 = 560mil Grand Opening 200 + 180 + 110 + 120 + 100 = 710mil Jams Many 100 + 170 + 110 + 110 + 100 = 590mil Jin Jisi 100 + 500 + 300 + 500 + 620 = 2020mil Small Turret 500 + 200 = 700mil Natalian 650 + 550 + 600 + 700 = 2500mil Aibuhui 350 + 300 = 750mil Doublet Smoke 530 + 520 + 200 = 1250mil Closed River 340 + 600 + 310 + 330 + 250 = 1830mil Military Person 330 + 270 = 600mil Diligently You 400 + 260 = 660mil Makes You 350 + 630 + 350 + 230 = 1560mil Swims Across 320 + 70 = 390mil Dry Country 290mil Armed Escort 100mil Skong Race 200mil Bans Entire 110mil Micrometer Clipers 200mil Unlimped 105mil Diligent Me 160mil Regardless Minute 89mil Law Net 113mil Preasure Place 50mil Appropriately shows 50mil Publication 100mil Has You 100mil Sigh Magnetism 120mil Scene Obtains 120mil Practices Divination 140mil Resists Stubbornly 292mil Geography Law 175mil Assembly Hall 102mil Origin You 78mil Opens Pleasure 100mil Opens Situation 100mil Cartridge Case 100mil Greatly Happy 580mil Expanded Eye 120mil Excessive You 110mil Recompenses 90mil Granulated Substances 260mil Right siezes 140mil Chest Cavity 199mil Punishes Pulls 30mil Machine Cat 200 + 200 = 400mil May Read 126mil Increase Uniform 245mil
22830mil or 22.8 BILLION isk (more or less)
while i was moving it from paper pages to a text file, i realised that i didnt write the amount on 2 names so i checked contract history on those 2 names and to my amazement they had lots of contracts in their history that dosnt show on Financial department history, AND there was ANOTHER set of contract from a Character named Golden Leader.
here is 1 of the 2 names that had 1 contract in financial department history which i forgot to write the contract amount which triggered this shocking discovery. Think Every 355 + 450 + 273 + 85 + 199 = 1362 for Financial Department!!! plus 275 + 140 + 33 + 164 + 94 + 185 + 102 = 993 for Golden Leader!!!
and to think this appeared originaly as only 1 contract in financial department history :O
so DOUBLE!!! the 23 billion isk and then DOUBLE AGAIN!!! for all the contracts who dosnt show in the original financial department history which i built the original list from.
we're talking of approximatly 100 and perhaps 150-200 billion here and thats just the tip of the ice. since i've seen these kind of networks before with totaly different names.
So we gotta ask ourselves how deep does the rabbit hole goes ?...
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gojwer
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Posted - 2007.10.19 07:48:00 -
[52]
CCP simply has to put in a long wait time for large isk transfers, like 1 week to get it, Im sure legitimate players wouldnt mind, because everyone would be equally effected by this, so noones at a disadvantage but the isk sellers.
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Sleepkevert
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.19 07:53:00 -
[53]
Holy ****, someone bring out the banstick on this one... CCP, this is HUGE... Hit it with some special query to find out who has traded to who, and then ban each and every one of them....
Sign my sig |
Sawny Bean
Xeno Tech Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.19 07:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: gojwer CCP simply has to put in a long wait time for large isk transfers, like 1 week to get it, Im sure legitimate players wouldnt mind, because everyone would be equally effected by this, so noones at a disadvantage but the isk sellers.
This solution would merely set them back one week on isk transfers then its back to business as usual.
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Sleepkevert
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.19 07:58:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Sawny Bean
Originally by: gojwer CCP simply has to put in a long wait time for large isk transfers, like 1 week to get it, Im sure legitimate players wouldnt mind, because everyone would be equally effected by this, so noones at a disadvantage but the isk sellers.
This solution would merely set them back one week on isk transfers then its back to business as usual.
Mweh, ban the IP's they were working on. (surely CCP can do that in these cases). Should set m back for at least a month or so. Not to mention that they will be ruined, since they cannot do any transfers anymore, but players keep asking for it. Also, they will need to get new accounts for each and every one of them which (if you look at the number of accounts running there) is going to be another blow to them...
Sign my sig |
voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:05:00 -
[56]
Edited by: voogru on 19/10/2007 08:05:28
Originally by: fugimi So we gotta ask ourselves how deep does the rabbit hole goes ?...
Welcome to my world.
I found out how deep it went, and it made me decide to take a break from EVE.
The question is, do you really want to know?
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:44:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dr Slaughter Well reading this is pretty depressing stuff. WTF are we all doing obeying the EULA & TOS whilst people who aren't are taking the **** to this extent? The really depressing part, for me, was to see that all the ICE is being eaten up by these w***** with a view to stuff the market once it's run out. Perhaps ICE should melt in the hangers if stored for too long....?
I used to laugh at the farmers and their funny comments in local, after all there was a human playing the same game as me, and didn't realise it was really such a huge problem.
I wonder if CCPs economist is reading this.. I sure hope so.
Yeah, it hits you eventually.
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fugimi
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:45:00 -
[58]
i would like to see news headlines like
CCP Fighting Crime, Several Large Isk Selling Networks Cought and Banned from EVE-ONLINE. Hundreds of Billions Illegal Isk been Confiscated. CCP Fighting Illegal Spam, Using new methods CCP managed to Eliminate Isk Selling Spam almost Completly.
As long as we're talking about headlines i got a few ppl telling me to shut up and keep quiet. You might see this headline on the next day newpaper: Male Corpse found floating in space near jita, the body belonged to 8 months old "fugimi" who was recently involved in uncovering large isk selling network, and caused the banning of dozens account along with Hundreds Billions Isk. Police report the murder is currently being investigated.
i might have to change my name to "fugimi in Exile" and hide in 0.0 under the protection of an anti isk selling corp.
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Capt Morgun
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:47:00 -
[59]
DUR DUR DUM DAH DUM DURR DAH. It's easier to use moron talk to communicate sometimes, so follow along. DUR DUR LAH LAH DAH DAH DUM DUR DUURG. Translation: If you talk about stuff like this pubilcally it hampers CCP's abilities to combat these things because basically you just tipped them off that they have been found out. So, I mean, kudos for being the next Geraldo but seriously next time just keep it to the petition. GUUURR GUH DAH DUM DUR.
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:51:00 -
[60]
Edited by: voogru on 19/10/2007 08:51:39
Originally by: Capt Morgun DUR DUR DUM DAH DUM DURR DAH. It's easier to use moron talk to communicate sometimes, so follow along. DUR DUR LAH LAH DAH DAH DUM DUR DUURG. Translation: If you talk about stuff like this pubilcally it hampers CCP's abilities to combat these things because basically you just tipped them off that they have been found out. So, I mean, kudos for being the next Geraldo but seriously next time just keep it to the petition. GUUURR GUH DAH DUM DUR.
Obviously you don't have a clue.
Petitions don't seem to work to well against against farmers, they work about 1/10th of the time. I can understand the GM's waiting a week or two to get extra information on the farmers to ban more of them.
But when I login and see blatant farmers I reported months ago still in the game (complete with 500 million ISK pieces of trit contracts) it's a little different and very depressing for me.
It's basically telling me that it was not worth the time for me to write up detailed petitions.
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Grunanca
Fusion Mercenaries
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Posted - 2007.10.19 08:58:00 -
[61]
This is definately the deepest thread about IKS sellers we have had for a loong time! I really hope CCP sees it and does something about it. Each BS account that gets banned is a month of skilltraining and maybe a billi=n in income thats lot for the farmers. If the farmers got banned in huge numbers, the GTC sales would eventually become cheaper, leading buyer there instead.
There will always be buyers, however leading the sales to the players in the right direction is a step forward.
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.19 09:01:00 -
[62]
Edited by: voogru on 19/10/2007 09:01:20
Originally by: Grunanca This is definately the deepest thread about IKS sellers we have had for a loong time! I really hope CCP sees it and does something about it. Each BS account that gets banned is a month of skilltraining and maybe a billi=n in income thats lot for the farmers. If the farmers got banned in huge numbers, the GTC sales would eventually become cheaper, leading buyer there instead.
There will always be buyers, however leading the sales to the players in the right direction is a step forward.
In order for this to happen, a large amount of the player base must voice their opinion.
Just like nerfs happen when everybody whines, I think of this as a nerf that needs a lot of whines too.
The advantage of this nerf though, nobody is against it.
Except the farmers and alliances that harbor them.
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fugimi
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Posted - 2007.10.19 09:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Capt Morgun DUR DUR DUM DAH DUM DURR DAH. It's easier to use moron talk to communicate sometimes, so follow along. DUR DUR LAH LAH DAH DAH DUM DUR DUURG. Translation: If you talk about stuff like this pubilcally it hampers CCP's abilities to combat these things because basically you just tipped them off that they have been found out. So, I mean, kudos for being the next Geraldo but seriously next time just keep it to the petition. GUUURR GUH DAH DUM DUR.
i would agree with u completly but theres this feeling which i have and i think alot of other ppl share that CCP isnt doing enough about isk sellers.
just look at all the isk selling spam which could be almost completly eliminated LONG time ago by using SIMPLE measures, like adding Mail Setting Option "do not accept mail from trial accounts who r not on my friends list" +/not on corp. and by preventing trial accounts from joining public trade channels and CEO channel or any other channel which dont concern trial accounts at all.
about this network we're talking about its oready working for 3 weeks. they can just switch to new accounts network in another week without losing any isk/money and completly lose the old activity trail.
another thing it took me hours figuring out all of this and im not even close to checking every little detail of 1 small network. is it possible that theres no1 in CCP that have the job description and time or the will to exclusivly taking care of those things ?
perhaps without a large enough feedback from EvE players and under the fog of legal traffic its real easy to cover it up and shove it under the table ?
theres a few sayings: the thief hide in the dark. what u cant see or hear does not exist.
i belive that if CCP would'v done more about those things we wouldnt see so much isk spam and such networks would not exist as a working oiled machines for many weeks only to switch to new network and barry the old one.
maybe.. just maybe.. its better to bring this issue to the light and help raise awarness and attention of both EvE players And CCP.
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Velanth
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.10.19 09:15:00 -
[64]
Resistance is futile, isk sellers will own your economy . Get out there and kill the farmers in sight. I see what you did there. |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.10.19 09:16:00 -
[65]
It was actually the Dev/BoB fiasco that led me to stop giving a rats about the Rice Farmers. On the grounds that, if CCP are happy to give stuff away to the privileged many what can it possibly matter that others are privileged enough to buy isk?
To this day nothing has changed my mind on this. $2 is what I would pay for 100 million isk, when the price reaches that level and I need isk, I will be buying it. At $2 being banned will not matter to me, and neither will getting blown up.
Back when it was $14 for 100 million, the situation we see today would have been unthinkable, but then again so was Dev orchestrated cheating, so in another year, how bleak is it going to look with the likely price of isk to be $12 for 1 billion? How is that even possible you would think.
CCP introduced a LOT of sa***uards for farmshops, invention was probably the finest, allowing farmshops into the Hulk market was just staggering. Now the Rice Farmers are deep into missions and 0.0 and they STILL can't be touched. The concept of non-consenual pvp never looked so distraught. How do you rat in 0.0 with impunity?
And now CCP are going to be introducing the sparkly T2 battleships which are going to be faster at running missions. Well... given past history, farming will benefit more than playing.
-- Any views or opinions expressed are only the ones I want to ram down your throat. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.19 09:20:00 -
[66]
So, according to Voogru, as many as one account in every ten is selling ISK to the other 9?
I'd suggest giving volunteers the ability to ban to anyone who has a suspicious contract history, and let the GMs deal only with the appeals. A high rate of successful appeals should result in sanctions against the volunteer issuing the ban, of course. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.19 09:20:00 -
[67]
Blah blah blah.
I hope if anything CCP are taking a long hard look at who is buying the ISK here. Kudo's to the OP for taking the time to investigate and publish the results-but it's a two-way street.
These folks may be violating the EULA and artificially depressing the value of ISK...but who is worse-the supplier or the player who cheats?
I don't care either way personally...I shoot both and chuckle knowing that a cheating player is out RL money and the farmers have to waste time getting new ships/cargo/missions/whatever.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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skuko
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.19 09:43:00 -
[68]
i'm bumping this topic to stay in front, this is getting monstrous proportions and needs to be #1 on the priority list for CCP, otherwise i might as well go back to what i was playing previously, before i invest too much time and effort into this game...
i mean, why even bother playing, if its going to collapse economically in 2-3 years, because of some ISK seller mafia?
sorry, if i'm harsh, i am a newb, not a noob not to forsee the consequences of CCP inactivity in this matter and it's really pi55ing me off.
i for myself will not recommend EvE to any1, since this is starting to look like just a different Lineage 2, where bots travel in packs...
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2007.10.19 09:52:00 -
[69]
Some time ago it was cheaper to sell GTC's than buy from sweatshops .. nowadays it's not. Do the math.
People *WILL* buy ISK .. from where does not matter.
*me pets his 4.1b isk wallet*
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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Drenan
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:00:00 -
[70]
I too would like to see the CCP economist getting involved...perhaps publishing a quarterly report on the 'criminal economy' and it's actual/projected effects on the markets.
He is in an ideal position to view the markets across regions and has access to amounts of mins mined/traded etc., and can also look at contracts.
The Eve 'Rich List' that has been promised for a future economy blog should also make for very interesting reading...especially between the lines?
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:13:00 -
[71]
Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang
"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it." |
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Iva Soreass
FireStar Inc
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:20:00 -
[72]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
Proof or more spin from the PR Doctor ?
[20:03:51] Ciprian > no pls i have snakes www.firestar-online.com |
Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:21:00 -
[73]
heh check out
shi Pomfu iment storehouse prepared legion gary armed tom good poiew camenozjl anne jin anne bush bush tom
hehe, a net of massive isk transfers going back to march 2007. some of the trades are pretty smart: buying a faction launcher in one system and selling somewhere else for 70 mil profit.
well that kept me entertained for a while. the volumes of isk changing hands in that network seem to increase as time goes on. They started out pretty humble.
---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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Krigg
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:31:00 -
[74]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
Nice!
You should make more announcements were this is concerned, it goes a long way in boosting the confidence of your playerbase when it comes to petitioning the farmers/sellers.
Can you provide a few facts and figures i.e. how many accounts and how much isk has been removed?
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Red Desire
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:33:00 -
[75]
I think it's obvious CCP tries to do something about the isk selling issue, but the fact is they aren't doing enough. And they will never do enough, if they would do enough the boards would be flooded with whine threads: how did you know?, I like to farm money everyday for 9 months, my cat donated the money and **** like that.
What it's pathetic for me is the fact that 0.0 is beeing carved by isk selling organisations,from single members to alliances.
But life goes on and the only thing we can do is whine.
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Ombey
Obsidian Inc. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:34:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Krigg
Nice!
You should make more announcements were this is concerned, it goes a long way in boosting the confidence of your playerbase when it comes to petitioning the farmers/sellers.
Can you provide a few facts and figures i.e. how many accounts and how much isk has been removed?
QFT- this should be headline news. Lots of ppl think CCP are either slow to act or don't act at all. Good work CCP. -- 2d EveMaps
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:37:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Krigg Can you provide a few facts and figures i.e. how many accounts and how much isk has been removed?
He just did.
The ones listed in this thread, within 24 hours of the birth of the thread.
Despite the fanboi optimism demonstrated by Ombey, you can't regard this thread's situation as little more than a token win.
-- Any views or opinions expressed are only the ones I want to ram down your throat. |
OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:39:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Drenan
I too would like to see the CCP economist getting involved...perhaps publishing a quarterly report on the 'criminal economy' and it's actual/projected effects on the markets.
/signed. Would be interesting to know the exact impact of the black economy. It's obviously an integral part of the economy as a whole these days so what would be the effect of removing the isk farmers/sellers ?
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Drenan
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:47:00 -
[79]
One interesting point I take from Wrangler's response is that contract trades (of the type being discussed) are not currently being auto-flagged for investigation by the system?
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Snake Jankins
Minmatar German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:49:00 -
[80]
Originally by: gojwer CCP simply has to put in a long wait time for large isk transfers, like 1 week to get it, Im sure legitimate players wouldnt mind, because everyone would be equally effected by this, so noones at a disadvantage but the isk sellers.
I transfer isk between my accounts several times a week from a char, who's got the isk to the char, who needs it. E.g. If I wanted to replace the ship that I lost last, I'd had to grep some isk from 2 of my other chars first. If (legitimate) isk transfers were delayed, I'd try to find a way around it myself and that can't be good. ___________ I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really. |
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:52:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Secretary on 19/10/2007 10:55:00 economics storehouse, started issuing auctions each for 1 unit of flameburst missile on 18/10/07 at 07:41:00 since then....
A rush70,000,001 A rush53,000,001 Accepts130,000,001 Accepts15,000,001 Appropriately show19,000,001 Because youth (deleted or banned)40,000,001 Because youth (deleted or banned)41,000,001 But actually35,000,001 Crossing wants70,000,001 Crossing wants60,000,001 End speech100,000,000 Excessive you60,000,001 Excessive you50,000,001 Excessively cuts (deleted or banned)30,000,001 Excessively cuts (deleted or banned)39,000,001 Expanded eye70,000,001 Expanded eye200,000,001 Infringement eye60,000,001 Infringement eye120,000,001 Instrumental music27,000,000 Instrumental music50,000,001 Is losing36,000,001 Is losing100,000,001 Kilogram poisonous70,000,001 Kilogram poisonous30,000,001 Kilogram poisonous30,000,001 lepidoptera43,000,001 Lepidoptera40,000,001 Machine cat74,000,000 May raed87,000,001 May read293,000,001 Moves capital160,000,001 Moves capital150,000,001 Opens use32,000,001 Publication rides116,000,000 Radioactive source150,000,001 Reclamation area60,000,001 Reclamation area20,000,001 Right seizes140,000,001 Right seizes300,000,001 Right yes40,000,001 Right yes30,000,001 Settles huashan120,000,001 settles huashan40,000,001 Special regiment110,000,001 Special regiment240,000,001 Substitution because50,000,001 Substitution because50,000,001 Treats difficulty47,000,001 Treats difficulty140,000,001 Violates thickly45,000,001 Violates thickly140,000,001
total 4.322 billion in 2 days.
---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:57:00 -
[82]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 19/10/2007 10:57:42
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
Thats great. But what about the players who buy the ISK? And the alliances that do the same? And alliances that harbor such money-laundering types from time to time?
Still a step in the right direction.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:58:00 -
[83]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
It's a shame it takes dedicated forum threads to get CCP to act these days -----
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UGWidowmaker
Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:58:00 -
[84]
many games have a "****list" this list contains people who has been banned and for what! and for how long. this would be very good i think. and would make us trust even more in the mighty ccp... OMFG
I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
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UGWidowmaker
Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2007.10.19 10:59:00 -
[85]
and yes. why not tell the comunity who has been bying isk of em. this would actually be a good thing, also for the ccp stocks... OMFG
I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
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Isan Danderoda
Strix Armaments and Defence Acheron Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.19 11:08:00 -
[86]
Maybe there is a naive streak in the jade candy coating around my mind, but I honestly think that CCP actually does do its research and tries to keep the isk farmers at bay whenever possible. Unfortunately there can be a lot to finding the right people and making sure that they are truly up to no good. And when I say that I mean time.
And that time is also spent on things like development and fixing problems for the legitimate pilots. I simply can't imagine the number of petitions rolling in that have to be handled by the staff.
And as far as announcing everyone who was banned for isk farming, I think that can pose a problem of letting the little buggers figure out how they were tracked down and defeated. Honestly I want CCP to have every weapon available to bear upon them and simply hope that they are getting the job done as best as possible.
As far as the people who actually use the services the farmers provide? I think we have to foster the snitching community. Honorable? No. Effective? Yes. How long do you think a buyer would last if it was known?
Of course this opens itself to tons of abuse, but hey, that's how the world works. :)
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Chai N'Dorr
Rumrunner Logistics
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Posted - 2007.10.19 11:08:00 -
[87]
Great to see some action. Most of these names operated in my corner of the galaxy. Always saw their names as odd and 'too similar' in construction. Just could never spot what they were doing...
Won't take long for a new batch to show up tho'. _
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fugimi
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Posted - 2007.10.19 11:46:00 -
[88]
Edited by: fugimi on 19/10/2007 11:53:42 Thats good to know that somthing good came from all of this.
but it seem its too little too late and not enough.
EvE is flooded with isk spam mail and ads in public channels constantly.
new players joining eve will be offered to buy isk from 10 different websites on their first few hours of the game.
why is there nothing being done about it ? and dont tell me its complicated or not possible coz its very simlpe and can be done very quickly by 1: adding "i do not wish to accept mail from trial accounts" option in mailbox settings. 2: not allowing trial accounts to join public channels which dont concern trial accounts, or at least not allowing them to write there. 3: make a url filter to prevent known isk selling addresses to even show up in channels 4: make a petition type for reporting those things more easier and clearer and improve GM response time. 5: im sure theres more things that can be done easely but lets start with those above and see how it goes...
just the spam alone is so disruptive and ruin the experience. have u ever tried to join the CEO channel and perhaps get some corp settings answers ? i tried that 3 times and every time i was shocked and amazed by the intensity of the isk spam aimed for corp CEO's.
About Isk sellers working ingame:
in such a busy and comlicated trade enviroment its easy to mask such activity, and the fact that isk sellers feel safe enough to be so bold as to abandon caution allrogether only prove how bad the situation have become. and that might have somthing to do with CCP internal policies.
and all that is the obvious, which is easy to spot and fix but for some reason failed to achieve that so far.
so do u expect me to belive that complicated market transactions, which have no public records to be used for identifying and tracking isk sellers operations, r somehow DO get taken care of ? u gotta be kidding me...
I love this game and i would like those things addressed more seriously. i'd realy like to see some of the problems on these matters solved and to feel there is positive progress.
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Swamp Ziro
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.19 11:52:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Secretary Edited by: Secretary on 19/10/2007 10:55:00 economics storehouse, started issuing auctions each for 1 unit of flameburst missile on 18/10/07 at 07:41:00 since then....
A rush70,000,001 A rush53,000,001 Accepts130,000,001 Accepts15,000,001 Appropriately show19,000,001 Because youth (deleted or banned)40,000,001 Because youth (deleted or banned)41,000,001 But actually35,000,001 Crossing wants70,000,001 Crossing wants60,000,001 End speech100,000,000 Excessive you60,000,001 Excessive you50,000,001 Excessively cuts (deleted or banned)30,000,001 Excessively cuts (deleted or banned)39,000,001 Expanded eye70,000,001 Expanded eye200,000,001 Infringement eye60,000,001 Infringement eye120,000,001 Instrumental music27,000,000 Instrumental music50,000,001 Is losing36,000,001 Is losing100,000,001 Kilogram poisonous70,000,001 Kilogram poisonous30,000,001 Kilogram poisonous30,000,001 lepidoptera43,000,001 Lepidoptera40,000,001 Machine cat74,000,000 May raed87,000,001 May read293,000,001 Moves capital160,000,001 Moves capital150,000,001 Opens use32,000,001 Publication rides116,000,000 Radioactive source150,000,001 Reclamation area60,000,001 Reclamation area20,000,001 Right seizes140,000,001 Right seizes300,000,001 Right yes40,000,001 Right yes30,000,001 Settles huashan120,000,001 settles huashan40,000,001 Special regiment110,000,001 Special regiment240,000,001 Substitution because50,000,001 Substitution because50,000,001 Treats difficulty47,000,001 Treats difficulty140,000,001 Violates thickly45,000,001 Violates thickly140,000,001
total 4.322 billion in 2 days.
Originally by: Secretary Violates thickly
Originally by: Secretary Violates thickly
Originally by: Secretary Violates thickly
hahahahah
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2007.10.19 12:10:00 -
[90]
Edited by: I SoStoned on 19/10/2007 12:12:50
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
They should be announced often. Give the banned individuals 3 months to work out getting their banning reversed, and then have their name added to a publically available list of who has been banned, and a general reason for it. Publish this list once every three months or make it a publically accessable database within the game or linked from the eve-o site.
eg: Banned - RMT violation name name ect Banned - Exploiting name ect Banned - Grief Play name ect.
ect ect. Not telling exactly how or what other than those general reasons, but lets us the player base know that SOMETHING is being done. Seeing the same exploiters in the game all the time and knowing we, the players, can do nothing about it is hugely frustrating.
Oh... and lets us wardec those NPC corps. Remove free invulnerability.
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Trojanman190
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.10.19 12:49:00 -
[91]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
This kind of victory is always tasty for us denizens of EVE. Could you guys make it a point to release crime statistics? I think it would help to strengthen of players' faith in the system.
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Atavachron
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Posted - 2007.10.19 12:51:00 -
[92]
If this thread were a cup of tea, I would gladly drink from the saucer.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.19 22:50:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Trojanman190
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
This kind of victory is always tasty for us denizens of EVE. Could you guys make it a point to release crime statistics? I think it would help to strengthen of players' faith in the system.
But the other thing is, it will also strengthen the spammers/sellers/launderers.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.19 22:50:00 -
[94]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
1 down.
Ten billion to go.
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BubbaZanetti
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Posted - 2007.10.19 22:52:00 -
[95]
Originally by: voogru
1 down.
Ten billion to go.
Woah. We hit ten billion subs? Suck it, WoW!
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Major Death
Caldari Space Salvage Incorperated
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Posted - 2007.10.19 22:58:00 -
[96]
Quote: but I honestly think that CCP actually does do its research and tries to keep the isk farmers at bay whenever possible.
Now thats a sarcastic comment! CCP cannot secure a database, let alone out wit a bunch of macro'ers. The Slaver Hounds in the docking bays know where to find ISK pharmers ingame!
My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;) |
slip66
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:16:00 -
[97]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
This should be front page news etc with a link to this thread.
This would give honest players a warm and fuzzy something is being done. This would also encourage other players to bring forward more evidence!
Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers |
Stakhanov
Katana's Edge
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:28:00 -
[98]
/signed to make it front page news.
Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:36:00 -
[99]
Edited by: F90OEX on 19/10/2007 23:36:02 Good...
Now how about a c-rack down on the ISK spamming in the channels, surely it can't be too much to ask for
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Price Watcher
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Posted - 2007.10.19 23:42:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Trojanman190
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
This kind of victory is always tasty for us denizens of EVE. Could you guys make it a point to release crime statistics? I think it would help to strengthen of players' faith in the system.
Without NAMES such information is no more than made-up propaganda. CCP needs to drop stupidity of "all wrongdoers shall be anonymous, it's sacred that way" and adopt "NAME AND SHAME".
And yes, without names I will believe they are making the stats up. I still remember T20 and the 'other incident'. I'll trust if they verify.
POST WITH YOUR ALT!
The Shame o' The Galaxy |
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Stakhanov
Katana's Edge
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Posted - 2007.10.20 00:08:00 -
[101]
The names have already been posted on page 1...
Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
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Tradelade
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Posted - 2007.10.20 00:12:00 -
[102]
Props for the OP bringing this up with solid evidence.
A company that could write a game of this size can't figure out how to remove ISK sellers spamming all the channels.
Or farmers.
Obviously it's just a matter of priorities. Would be nice to get a post from CCP, explaining their policy and why there is so little visible effort against these scum.
Public ban lists, volunteer GMs tracking 'em down.. The thread is full of great ideas, now we'd just need someone from CCP explaining why they aren't implementing these changes. Or better yet, coming up with their own solutions.
Oh and a *bump*. These threads should hang up there untill we get decent answers.
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Price Watcher
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Posted - 2007.10.20 00:15:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Stakhanov The names have already been posted on page 1...
By a player. No action has been taken so far as we know.
CCP needs to post the NAMES of the damned. Without NAMES any 'statistics' about bans of cheaters are meaningless. CCP has a credibility problem. Without NAMES players cannot check to see if the 'statistics' are so much sophistry.
POST WITH YOUR ALT!
The Shame o' The Galaxy |
Stakhanov
Katana's Edge
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Posted - 2007.10.20 01:07:00 -
[104]
CCP already has a policy of not disclosing names... (as seen in the FAQ)
Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.20 01:21:00 -
[105]
I think a list of the damned would be something nice to read. Come on, we know if we lived in the 12-1400s as long as it wasn't out butts on the fire, public executions and gibbetings would be entertaining to go to.
Another one bites the dust. |
zilllii
Squirrel Power
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Posted - 2007.10.20 01:36:00 -
[106]
i think the problem here is that its hard to get to the sellers but what CCP should do is track the buyers and permaban all the buyers accounts and name monthly all ingame characters that have been banned.
soon the buyers will be gone and with no buyers there is no profit for the sellers.
or the GM's can have fun with them and remove all their money/ships/isk and park them in lets say PF-346 and have all GM and Dev buddies bubble up the system and have a squishy fest
gimme bigger letter count in my sig so it wont cut off everything damnit!!!! |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.20 01:49:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 20/10/2007 01:51:59
Originally by: Price Watcher
Originally by: Stakhanov The names have already been posted on page 1...
By a player. No action has been taken so far as we know.
CCP needs to post the NAMES of the damned. Without NAMES any 'statistics' about bans of cheaters are meaningless. CCP has a credibility problem. Without NAMES players cannot check to see if the 'statistics' are so much sophistry.
Why on EARTH would CCP want to do that? Credibility problem? Woah woah down sparky, who exactly do you think we as players are? CCP's performance managers who constantly look over their shoulders while they cower at their desk everytime we tower up behind them?
Geez man...
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gojwer
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Posted - 2007.10.20 03:01:00 -
[108]
whenever another thread pops up saying "why is my isk in the negatives?" I think CCPs too soft on buyers. I could understand someone who is on the receiving end, such as an isk seller gives someone who buys isk 100 mil, then that person turns around and buys something from a legitimate player, which means that they now have the bad isk, but as far as the actual isk buyers are concerned, and any other form of cheating the system, be it devs or whole alliances or a single person, I think they need at least a 14 day ban, if not a complete one. people tend to shape up when the alternative is to be taken out of the loop completely.
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gojwer
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Posted - 2007.10.20 03:03:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 20/10/2007 01:51:59
Originally by: Price Watcher
Originally by: Stakhanov The names have already been posted on page 1...
By a player. No action has been taken so far as we know.
CCP needs to post the NAMES of the damned. Without NAMES any 'statistics' about bans of cheaters are meaningless. CCP has a credibility problem. Without NAMES players cannot check to see if the 'statistics' are so much sophistry.
Why on EARTH would CCP want to do that? Credibility problem? Woah woah down sparky, who exactly do you think we as players are? CCP's performance managers who constantly look over their shoulders while they cower at their desk everytime we tower up behind them?
Geez man...
thats exactly what players should be
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Joker47
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Posted - 2007.10.20 03:07:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Joker47 on 20/10/2007 03:07:34
Originally by: Sarkkon Oh.. and as far as low sec ICE... I am sure the ISK sellers will set up 23/7 blockade encampments of these systems.. they never sleep or take time off or get tired. They share accounts across muliple players. they are always on and always rested and alert.
Check this post 3 months from now. and tell me i have it wrong. EVE is dying... we need to act now to save it.
NEVER going to happen
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gojwer
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Posted - 2007.10.20 03:18:00 -
[111]
theres a lot of isk farmer/sellers in their own corps. go wardec them for free loot. isk sellers cant fight THAT well can they?
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.20 03:37:00 -
[112]
Originally by: gojwer
Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 20/10/2007 01:51:59
Originally by: Price Watcher
Originally by: Stakhanov The names have already been posted on page 1...
By a player. No action has been taken so far as we know.
CCP needs to post the NAMES of the damned. Without NAMES any 'statistics' about bans of cheaters are meaningless. CCP has a credibility problem. Without NAMES players cannot check to see if the 'statistics' are so much sophistry.
Why on EARTH would CCP want to do that? Credibility problem? Woah woah down sparky, who exactly do you think we as players are? CCP's performance managers who constantly look over their shoulders while they cower at their desk everytime we tower up behind them?
Geez man...
thats exactly what players should be
Huh??? Why??? Why the HELL should we watch over CCP's shoulder? Why should we at all nose in THEIR BUSINESS..not ours..THEIRS. Why should they cower??? Why is there even talk about lack of credibility?? If you don't trust the company, why are you even paying? Are you stupid?
As a paying customer you buy the right to log in and play..THATS IT. Heck I think what you buy is even less then that.
If I buy service from an ISP, I have no right to know about if some other person paying for the same service at the same ISP as me, gets disconnected and fined for doing something bad. I certainly have no right to know his/her name either.
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KenDoll
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Posted - 2007.10.20 03:46:00 -
[113]
ISK farmers pay ccp money, hence ccp will never do anything to stop this gheyness from continuing.
quit wasting you time with it because the outcome is always the same.
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Constance Noring
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Posted - 2007.10.20 03:53:00 -
[114]
Sweet. I guess the isk was not so "safest" afterall
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ZeroMbutCannotJump
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Posted - 2007.10.20 04:50:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Huh??? Why??? Why the HELL should we watch over CCP's shoulder? Why should we at all nose in THEIR BUSINESS..not ours..THEIRS. Why should they cower??? Why is there even talk about lack of credibility?? If you don't trust the company, why are you even paying? Are you stupid?
As a paying customer you buy the right to log in and play..THATS IT. Heck I think what you buy is even less then that.
Not that I see your stance as invalid, but for the sake of principle, I just wanted to correct both your "tone" and your logic (esp in the analogy you gave).
First, relax. It is OK if someone has a different opinion than you. Really, this is a matter of opinion. It is all about how you view customer service and the roles of business/customer. Since we are the people actually supporting CCP, some people take a more "They are here to entertain and satisfy us." approach.
Others, like yourself, take a "without them, we could not play EVE, therefore they are superiorly awesome to us." approach. Both are valid. Really. Argue against his ideas if you want, but don't act like it is basic human common sense that you are right and he is totally insane for his thoughts on the subject.
Next, your analogy about the ISP.
Quote:
If I buy service from an ISP, I have no right to know about if some other person paying for the same service at the same ISP as me, gets disconnected and fined for doing something bad.
What if it is cable and the person who got banned had been using illegal programs via his connection, thus screwing up the connections of other ISP customers? Would you want to know that your ISP got rid of the fellow?
Quote: I certainly have no right to know his/her name either.
You are breaking the analogy by saying that. The ISP would not be releasing his real name. Maybe they would release something like "Customer 125754231." You would not be able to connect that to any real person or real address.
So, if people in your community are using illegal programs on their cable connections, thus negativly affecting all the legit customers who play by the rules, why would your cable company NOT want to announce on some web page each time they catch another batch of rule breakers (like once a month announcement)? And who cares if they say, "It was Customers 968994, 9784, 949795, and 83996. Means nothing.
That is all.
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.10.20 05:13:00 -
[116]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 19/10/2007 10:57:42
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
And alliances that harbor such money-laundering types from time to time?
Players shouldn't have the responibility to avoid authorised (such as to harbour a corp) interaction with isk-farming characters nor should they be punished if they ever fail to detect one.
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Siriyana
Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2007.10.20 05:30:00 -
[117]
I've seen a dozen or so of these guys around a specific low sec area of space, mission running in the exact same Caracals or Ravens.
I've also seen the large hauler gangs.
And, I have plans on killing every last one of them that comes through the gate in one hell of a gankfest sometime in the near future. :) ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
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Nytemaster
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.20 05:35:00 -
[118]
There are vast NPC corp macro bots infesting Eve.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.20 06:35:00 -
[119]
Originally by: ZeroMbutCannotJump
Not that I see your stance as invalid, but for the sake of principle, I just wanted to correct both your "tone" and your logic (esp in the analogy you gave).
First, relax. It is OK if someone has a different opinion than you. Really, this is a matter of opinion. It is all about how you view customer service and the roles of business/customer. Since we are the people actually supporting CCP, some people take a more "They are here to entertain and satisfy us." approach.
Others, like yourself, take a "without them, we could not play EVE, therefore they are superiorly awesome to us." approach. Both are valid. Really. Argue against his ideas if you want, but don't act like it is basic human common sense that you are right and he is totally insane for his thoughts on the subject.
I suppose I have made my post rather aggressive, and you're right, I should relax a little, but you're wrong about the rest..I don't find CCP particularly awesome, or superior for that matter.
What you have to understand is that I've been repeating myself with the same message, over and over and over, for ages now..to the kind of people who all believe CCP should serve their own balls on a silver platter, cooked to specifics, all because these people pay x times $15 a month, depending the amount of accounts they have.
I am a relaxed player who, unfortunately, got to talking to people about these sort of things and then ended up repeating myself over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over etc. Running into one instance of apparent brainfailure after another with people...you know...as if people couldn't think of themselves, and I got too much caught up in it.
Also, it is a blantant, and most assuredly simple, fact, that without CCP or another entity with legal rights to run an EVE server, we couldn't play EVE. Even you wouldn't question that.
Originally by: ZeroMbutCannotJump
Next, your analogy about the ISP.
<stuff> <more stuff> <stuffed stuff> etc
I'm not really sure you're getting through to me, as I..well...I honestly don't see you defeating my analogy, more like confirming it. As for the cable thing...I have absolutely no idea what the difference would be, so I wouldn't even be able to agree with you if I wanted to. What I do know though, is that ultimately it comes down to your rules and policies.
Also, I'm not very good with analogies, what I'm comparing is what I know that is as close to what CCP does in service.
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Sin Meng
Gallente Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.10.20 06:58:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Sin Meng on 20/10/2007 06:58:24 Work like this would make a nice addition to ISD. Hunting such things alongside GMs might help the cause. -------------------------
EVE is a sandbox with land mines, deal with it. |
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Rogueweapon
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Posted - 2007.10.20 09:10:00 -
[121]
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.20 09:20:00 -
[122]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 20/10/2007 09:22:05
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 19/10/2007 10:57:42
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
And alliances that harbor such money-laundering types from time to time?
Players shouldn't have the responibility to avoid authorised (such as to harbour a corp) interaction with isk-farming characters nor should they be punished if they ever fail to detect one.
This is all rubbish anyway. I wonder how many pilots/alliances posting in this thread have bought GTC to sell for ISK to fund thier activities ingame?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
Yeah...thought so. Spare me the self-righteous indignation at the "ISK farmer peril". At least they ain't directly trying to kill me by opening RL wallets to buy characters and other toys
Would CCP care to comment on THAT situation?
I'm not holding my breath.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.20 10:54:00 -
[123]
*Pin drops*
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.20 12:24:00 -
[124]
new node character
regiment fund.
Has you180,000,001 Publication220,000,001 Sigh magnetism130,000,001 Swims across200,000,001 Makes you200,000,001 Diligently you250,000,001 Law not270,000,001 Regardless minute220,000,001 Unimpeded250,000,001 Military person330,000,001 Closed river330,000,001 Doublet smoke140,000,001 Assembly hall300,000,001 Origin you320,000,001 Scene obtains78,000,001 Zhu liya280,000,001 Vera nicard400,000,001 Bans entire200,000,001 diligently me200,000,001 Evaluation because200,000,001 Relocation of161,000,001 Geography law200,000,001 Thanks every200,000,001 Resists stubbornly228,000,001 Smallturret400,000,001 Jin jisi140,000,001 Al a'snow300,000,001 Camenozjl300,000,001 Poiew300,000,001 Registered permanent150,000,001 The motive's50,000,001 Jack eyes100,000,001 Starts spacially130,000,001 Jams many200,000,001 Shi pomfu200,000,001 Superhuman li200,000,001
total of 7,957,000,036 in single item auctions in 24 hours. ---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.20 12:32:00 -
[125]
*tink*
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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fugimi
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Posted - 2007.10.20 12:47:00 -
[126]
Edited by: fugimi on 20/10/2007 12:47:53
Originally by: Secretary new node character
Thats what im talking about, nice work.
hmm some of the characters in this node list also been in the other node lists so it seem theres trails connecting those nodes to other nodes.
makes u wonder how big this perticular monster is....
this is a work for a special CCP crime unit which focus on isk selling and other criminal aspects of eve and not for a yeah ok i'll have a gm look at this and ban a few accounts.
is 1 dedicated GM fighting isk selling is too much to ask ? and what about letting a dev write a few lines of code designed to fight isk selling spam ? is that too much to ask too ?
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Suze'Rain
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Posted - 2007.10.20 12:59:00 -
[127]
what we need done is to start "outing" the people who're buying the isk.
not the fences and laundering to cover the trails, but the scumbag cheating little ****s who are paying for the isk, and making it worth the farmers and sellers opening up shop.
personally, I'd say it's time they were found out, and that whol can or worms dealt with
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.20 13:30:00 -
[128]
it would be nice to know that "justice" is being done but ccp's policy is that they don't discuss matters of that nature.
Out the nodal characters. assume ccp are tracking where all that isk goes and confiscating it from the end purchasers. If they're not then we can't do anything about it anyhow.
the fact that a new node character turned up in the last 24 hours and is shifting 8 billion isk odd suggests ccp are banning the ones already named. I would hope that ccp wait for the auctions to be claimed, ban the node character account and then track the isk to end purchasers.
If the farmers can't get their isk to a purchaser, they'll stop farming. if the purchasers know they're going to lose their real money and the isk they'll stop buying.
Prices on everything will go up and more people will buy white market isk though secure ccp trades. everyone is happy! sort of. ---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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fugimi
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Posted - 2007.10.20 15:28:00 -
[129]
check this thread
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=617679
check contract history on the char "qinlv". its similar to the isk selling networks we've seen in this thread but seem to be more creative sometime in the choice and varaity of "null items" in contracts. there is a trail there u can follow which will lead to other chars involved in "somthing".
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caldaricitizin000011
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Posted - 2007.10.20 15:43:00 -
[130]
I suggest a pop-up for all trial players that shows up within 5 minutes of logging on and can not be closed within 10 seconds of its arrival.
"BUYING ISK FOR REAL MONEY IS ILLEGAL AND TRACKABLE"
Perhaps people think they cant be caught?
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.20 16:30:00 -
[131]
Originally by: fugimi
check contract history on the char "qinlv".
35 billion isk received by qinlv through these funny contracts over the course of 40 days. Not bad going for a new character. must have done a lot of mining on his 5 other accounts or something.
---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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Supernauta
Tropa de Elite The Church.
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Posted - 2007.10.21 00:02:00 -
[132]
This has been one of the most interesting things I've seen done here in a while. Thank you! --------------------------------------- Violence is not the answer. It is the question. The answer is yes. |
F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.21 00:12:00 -
[133]
CCP for the 100th time, when we going to get trial accounts removed from the trade and the other channels. REV 10 ???
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Robinete Broadhead
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.21 05:18:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Robinete Broadhead on 21/10/2007 05:18:54
Originally by: Pooka
Now the bigger questions are Who are the Sellers and Who are the buyyers? Which Allainace is selling and/ or buying. Now that would be interesting to find out.
I checked some of the names and added them to my address book, the ones I choice had 5.0 security ratings. Guess which buyers were still online this morning. Auction won = 620,000,000.00 1 FOF missle 10 month player = 600,000,001.001 FOF missle1 yr player = 650,000,001.001 FOF missle1 yr player So which allaince just recived 1,870,000,002.00 ISK and can I get a loan? Say 1/2 a billion please? On second though, no thanks I know that this is dirty ISK and don't want it! Wonder why others can see that it is dirty.
Yes, I am an ALT in a NOOB Corp.
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.21 06:49:00 -
[135]
Set all the starting corporations to -10 standing. as you travel through the galaxy scan local for these degenerates. Check the contract activity for a random sample. If the same name pops up for an auction no sane person would accept, check contract activity for those names. Add the people involved in contracts with these folks to address book and check their contract activity every couple of days.
As node characters are banned, new ones will pop up but the farmers will remain active so it's trivial to locate the node characters.
Hours of fun. ---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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Rosa Rosette
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Posted - 2007.10.21 07:39:00 -
[136]
dear regiment fund!
can i have your stuff please?
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bellator militaris
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Posted - 2007.10.21 07:47:00 -
[137]
Please, get in line and take a number. Your turn will come. Bellator Militaris SPQR.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.21 08:19:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 21/10/2007 08:19:21
Originally by: Rosa Rosette dear regiment fund!
can i have your stuff please?
If he gave you any of it you'd probably be banned along with him as an isk buyer...
My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Terminus adacai
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.21 08:28:00 -
[139]
Congrats to the OP!!!! CCP has now responded and removed one drop from the bucket full.
I have an idea, move all Chinese IP toons to the China server... Remove the ability for a trial toon to post in trade channels..... aggressively go after accounts that seem to be active running missions, mining for 23/7 EVERY moment the servers are up.
If we got rid of every isk spammer, farmer, transferers, you may also realize that you do not need so many RAMSAN updates.
I thought it was great when Eve hit 30k pilots online at once. I now realize that probably 1/3 of them were chinese macroers, isk sellers....
The idea that so many illegal accounts contribute about 150-200k in income to CCP per month used to make me think that CCP didn't care. But as they see the player base rise up in arms over this kind of activity, they have to realize that they are going to face a revolt sooner or later from their loyal, EULA abiding players.
I agree with other's posts that a public acknowledgment of the problem and an ongoing communication with the players as to what is being done to reduce this type of activity is sorely needed.
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Minmatar Escapee
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Posted - 2007.10.21 09:03:00 -
[140]
Originally by: SengH if you wanna see something really suspcious
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=84993
hai guys im a 1 month old noob who suddenly has the isk to buy 20billion isk worth of skillbooks and move it in a shuttle.
There is a problem with this website's security certificate. The security certificate presented by this website was not issued by a trusted certificate authority.
Security certificate problems may indicate an attempt to fool you or intercept any data you send to the server. ============= Damn, Pandemic Legion Ganked my web browsing. lol.
CCP, get off your asses and please start getting forensic accountants involved.
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Nanahonka
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Posted - 2007.10.21 09:53:00 -
[141]
Here is an good example for community information about Anit-RMT activity:
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/2348/detail.html
And
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/polnews/news11347.shtml
In my opinion CCP should do the same
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citizen amarr33sd3g4
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Posted - 2007.10.21 14:54:00 -
[142]
Originally by: caldaricitizin000011 I suggest a pop-up for all trial players that shows up within 5 minutes of logging on and can not be closed within 10 seconds of its arrival.
"BUYING ISK FOR REAL MONEY IS ILLEGAL AND TRACKABLE"
Perhaps people think they cant be caught?
Stop the buyers so the sellers can't sell.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.10.21 14:57:00 -
[143]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 20/10/2007 09:22:05
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 19/10/2007 10:57:42
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
And alliances that harbor such money-laundering types from time to time?
Players shouldn't have the responibility to avoid authorised (such as to harbour a corp) interaction with isk-farming characters nor should they be punished if they ever fail to detect one.
This is all rubbish anyway. I wonder how many pilots/alliances posting in this thread have bought GTC to sell for ISK to fund thier activities ingame?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
Yeah...thought so. Spare me the self-righteous indignation at the "ISK farmer peril". At least they ain't directly trying to kill me by opening RL wallets to buy characters and other toys
Would CCP care to comment on THAT situation?
I'm not holding my breath.
buying isk is gain an advantage over other players is different from paying for multiple accounts.... how? ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room... |
Rhaegor Stormborn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.10.21 14:59:00 -
[144]
This thread is absolutely insane. I guess people should start linking it to the gaming sites and digg and all that other nonsense so CCP actually does something that will make a difference.
Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated [PIA] Recruitment Thread |
Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.10.21 16:35:00 -
[145]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 20/10/2007 09:22:05
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 19/10/2007 10:57:42
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
And alliances that harbor such money-laundering types from time to time?
Players shouldn't have the responibility to avoid authorised (such as to harbour a corp) interaction with isk-farming characters nor should they be punished if they ever fail to detect one.
This is all rubbish anyway. I wonder how many pilots/alliances posting in this thread have bought GTC to sell for ISK to fund thier activities ingame?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
Yeah...thought so. Spare me the self-righteous indignation at the "ISK farmer peril". At least they ain't directly trying to kill me by opening RL wallets to buy characters and other toys
Would CCP care to comment on THAT situation?
I'm not holding my breath.
My post wasnÆt supporting isk farmers: I was merely trying to stress the importance of not letting their existence affect the common Eve-playerÆs play style.
ThereÆs a fundamental rift among people; those who are willing to sacrifice a part of their freedom to gain a little security and those who arenÆt.
IÆm sorry if you failed to understand this.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.21 17:42:00 -
[146]
CCP is good about being tight lipped about everything.
if it is not good PR, or cannot be spun in a positive light they usually will not put it out.
GMs withdrawing cash from players for buying isk? Minor setback. TRY BANS NEXT TIME.
Better yet, roll the damned character back like someone else suggested in another thread.. (all that will do is cause an isk buyer to transfer all assets to another account, or use other accounts to filter isk without fear of the rollback on a main.. so.. still like the idea )
There are a few of us that have been fighting isk farming in eve for a really long time... Voogru, myself, guys in UCAM... Between all of us we have spent more man-years fighting isk farmers than eve's entire existence from the time it was an idea.
And, CCP has hurt our activites... it is a ton harder to hisec gank an isk farmer...
But, check this out...
'twtnydc 12' sells a dread guristas invul field to a legit player for 310 million isk
'Danlan shaais' sells an ibis for 300 million isk to twtnydc 12 This transfers the isk back up to 'Danlan shaais'
'Danlan shaais' looks like a small hub character, quite a few high isk contracts going there for 1 cruise missle, or 1 ibis.
But, if you REALLY want to see some nice loot, check out: 'karley' He appears to get the good loot and sell it for the other farmers.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.21 18:36:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 20/10/2007 09:22:05
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 19/10/2007 10:57:42
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
And alliances that harbor such money-laundering types from time to time?
Players shouldn't have the responibility to avoid authorised (such as to harbour a corp) interaction with isk-farming characters nor should they be punished if they ever fail to detect one.
This is all rubbish anyway. I wonder how many pilots/alliances posting in this thread have bought GTC to sell for ISK to fund thier activities ingame?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
Yeah...thought so. Spare me the self-righteous indignation at the "ISK farmer peril". At least they ain't directly trying to kill me by opening RL wallets to buy characters and other toys
Would CCP care to comment on THAT situation?
I'm not holding my breath.
My post wasnÆt supporting isk farmers: I was merely trying to stress the importance of not letting their existence affect the common Eve-playerÆs play style.
ThereÆs a fundamental rift among people; those who are willing to sacrifice a part of their freedom to gain a little security and those who arenÆt.
IÆm sorry if you failed to understand this.
I'll be concise (after some research and lambasting elsewhere):
It is hypocritical to scream about the "isk-farmer peril" when there is a CCP-sanctioned method for buying ISK via GTC sales. Either way some players will buy ISK for cash to give them a perceived advantage ingame...the only difference being who's real life wallet expands-CCP's or the ISK-seller.
It's great that folks care enough about the game to chase farmer/sellers..but whats the point when any idiot with a few extra bucks can buy themselves a top-line pilot/ingame toys simply by purchasing GTC's for ISK resale.
Clear enough?
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.10.21 18:52:00 -
[148]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 20/10/2007 09:22:05
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 19/10/2007 10:57:42
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
And alliances that harbor such money-laundering types from time to time?
Players shouldn't have the responibility to avoid authorised (such as to harbour a corp) interaction with isk-farming characters nor should they be punished if they ever fail to detect one.
This is all rubbish anyway. I wonder how many pilots/alliances posting in this thread have bought GTC to sell for ISK to fund thier activities ingame?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
Yeah...thought so. Spare me the self-righteous indignation at the "ISK farmer peril". At least they ain't directly trying to kill me by opening RL wallets to buy characters and other toys
Would CCP care to comment on THAT situation?
I'm not holding my breath.
My post wasnÆt supporting isk farmers: I was merely trying to stress the importance of not letting their existence affect the common Eve-playerÆs play style.
ThereÆs a fundamental rift among people; those who are willing to sacrifice a part of their freedom to gain a little security and those who arenÆt.
IÆm sorry if you failed to understand this.
I'll be concise (after some research and lambasting elsewhere):
It is hypocritical to scream about the "isk-farmer peril" when there is a CCP-sanctioned method for buying ISK via GTC sales. Either way some players will buy ISK for cash to give them a perceived advantage ingame...the only difference being who's real life wallet expands-CCP's or the ISK-seller.
It's great that folks care enough about the game to chase farmer/sellers..but whats the point when any idiot with a few extra bucks can buy themselves a top-line pilot/ingame toys simply by purchasing GTC's for ISK resale.
Clear enough?
Please point out how my posts have any relevance at all to your complaint about GTC-trade?
Do I ever mention GTC-trade in my post? If so, please point that out as well.
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citizen amarr33sd3g4
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Posted - 2007.10.22 00:48:00 -
[149]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
I'll be concise (after some research and lambasting elsewhere):
It is hypocritical to scream about the "isk-farmer peril" when there is a CCP-sanctioned method for buying ISK via GTC sales. Either way some players will buy ISK for cash to give them a perceived advantage ingame...the only difference being who's real life wallet expands-CCP's or the ISK-seller.
It's great that folks care enough about the game to chase farmer/sellers..but whats the point when any idiot with a few extra bucks can buy themselves a top-line pilot/ingame toys simply by purchasing GTC's for ISK resale.
Clear enough?
It is an unfortunate fact of EVE.
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gojwer
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Posted - 2007.10.22 08:08:00 -
[150]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 20/10/2007 09:22:05
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 19/10/2007 10:57:42
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
And alliances that harbor such money-laundering types from time to time?
Players shouldn't have the responibility to avoid authorised (such as to harbour a corp) interaction with isk-farming characters nor should they be punished if they ever fail to detect one.
This is all rubbish anyway. I wonder how many pilots/alliances posting in this thread have bought GTC to sell for ISK to fund thier activities ingame?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
Yeah...thought so. Spare me the self-righteous indignation at the "ISK farmer peril". At least they ain't directly trying to kill me by opening RL wallets to buy characters and other toys
Would CCP care to comment on THAT situation?
I'm not holding my breath.
My post wasnÆt supporting isk farmers: I was merely trying to stress the importance of not letting their existence affect the common Eve-playerÆs play style.
ThereÆs a fundamental rift among people; those who are willing to sacrifice a part of their freedom to gain a little security and those who arenÆt.
IÆm sorry if you failed to understand this.
I'll be concise (after some research and lambasting elsewhere):
It is hypocritical to scream about the "isk-farmer peril" when there is a CCP-sanctioned method for buying ISK via GTC sales. Either way some players will buy ISK for cash to give them a perceived advantage ingame...the only difference being who's real life wallet expands-CCP's or the ISK-seller.
It's great that folks care enough about the game to chase farmer/sellers..but whats the point when any idiot with a few extra bucks can buy themselves a top-line pilot/ingame toys simply by purchasing GTC's for ISK resale.
Clear enough?
30 day GTCs will get you around 170-190 million isk. that 15 dollars for that much. you can get billions for 5 dollars from a isk seller. I really dont see how you can claim thats no different.
yes, if a player cheats and tries to buy isk illegally, they are supporting metagamers and infringement of copyright and intellectual property, as well as ruining the in game economy and pushing legitimate players fun out of any possibility of existing. u = fail
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.22 08:33:00 -
[151]
new node : the whites
---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.22 08:55:00 -
[152]
Actually, most isk seller spam seems to quote a price around 60$ for 1b isk. If we assume that a GTC costs 15$ and will net you 180m (give or take), then 5 is 75$ and 900m, so call it 80$ for 1b isk. So, a difference yes, and certainly if you gonna buy LOTS of billions, but in my eyes not a huge difference.
Also, price of illegal isk seems to be sinking as well (confirm/deny?), which would indicate too much isk on the market, and not enough buyers.
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2007.10.22 09:38:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Reverend Revelator Actually, most isk seller spam seems to quote a price around 60$ for 1b isk. If we assume that a GTC costs 15$ and will net you 180m (give or take), then 5 is 75$ and 900m, so call it 80$ for 1b isk. So, a difference yes, and certainly if you gonna buy LOTS of billions, but in my eyes not a huge difference.
Also, price of illegal isk seems to be sinking as well (confirm/deny?), which would indicate too much isk on the market, and not enough buyers.
Demand and supply is a rather simplistic determination of price. -
Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345 |
Major Death
Caldari Space Salvage Incorperated
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Posted - 2007.10.22 10:06:00 -
[154]
Heres a tip to save CCP some time if they are looking for the start of the illegal 'ISK for Cash' supply chain; Look in any high sec system with Ice Belts and you will see a number of Ice miners with garbage names, all in NPC corps and no standings e.t.c, who have done nothing but mine ice 23/7. They usually mine ice into a can which gets hauled away by another garbage name character. To say that hitting Isk Pharmers is a difficult process is rubbish.
Any you can add to that the increasing number of trial account ninja miners in low sec, plus the trail account isk spammers. And these scum prevent legitimate trail accounts from logging in.
My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;) |
Vele Nori
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Posted - 2007.10.22 10:25:00 -
[155]
Lowest I've seen was $45 per 1 billion ISK - right now the price is about $55 for 1 bil. In gtcs this would cost about $93 so farmer ISK is about twice as cheap. But, do the farmers even refund you if you lose your ISK to GMs? Somehow I doubt it, so even if it looks 2x cheaper it really isn't. One website I've seen was selling ISK for $95 for 1 billion ISK which is even more than with the codes. I would think people bought from them or they would drop prices which leads me to believe that a lot of people did it because they don't know about GTCs or that buying ISK in other ways is against the rules.
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Delichon
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.22 10:57:00 -
[156]
The difference between GTC => ISK and USD => ISK. A few examples to illustrate. (it would be better to use GM's own words, where they have said pretty much the same, but I've forgot in which thread those were)
First example. Person A buys GTC. Person B earns his 200 mil while fairly competing with other players for the resources (mining-running missions-ratting-trading) A gives B a GTC, B gives A 200 mil. The balance is not disturbed, because no additional ISKs are ingame. A could have earned those 200 mil himself, or B could have spent his 200 mil. to buy a pew-pew boat and than get killed.
Another example. A person B uses perfectly legal game mechanics activities to get 1 bil. of ISK. Person A has a buck and trades it for 200 mil. Isk. The economy balance holds, but B and A break CCP's copyright.
Third example. A person B uses macros to get 100 bil. Person A has a buck and trades it for 200 mil. Isk. Here both the economy is imbalanced (because normal players are not able to mine 23/7 in groups of 7 Macs with a hauler alt) and the copyright is broken.
DO not compare GTC=>legit ISK to Cash=>legit ISK and to Cash=>Macroed ISK. Three different animals they are.
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Tradelade
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Posted - 2007.10.22 11:04:00 -
[157]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
I'll be concise (after some research and lambasting elsewhere):
It is hypocritical to scream about the "isk-farmer peril" when there is a CCP-sanctioned method for buying ISK via GTC sales. Either way some players will buy ISK for cash to give them a perceived advantage ingame...the only difference being who's real life wallet expands-CCP's or the ISK-seller.
It's great that folks care enough about the game to chase farmer/sellers..but whats the point when any idiot with a few extra bucks can buy themselves a top-line pilot/ingame toys simply by purchasing GTC's for ISK resale.
Clear enough?
Don't be silly. Surely you understand the differences between the two. GTC trade doesn't allow you to get RL money OUT.
The end result might not be that different - guy with RL money to spend can buy his way in to the game. But the effects of the two in game, forgetting the buyer, are totally different.
I'm sure you don't have to be reminded about the degenerating gameplay effects of the ISK selling spam or of the 23/7 macro/chinese farmers.
If someone has some extra ISK, he can choose to pay for his playing with them. Nobody is going to build up these kind of massive harvesting operations with hundreds or thousands accounts, hire employees if they only can trade the ISK for playing time.
I don't see the GTC trade a problem as long as they allow multiple accounts in their greed*. RL money used for advantage in game. Not only they allow it, they even market it aggressively, quite unlike the GTC trade. But the problems these two create for the gameplay aren't even on the same scale as those created by the ISK sellers and their farmers.
* I mean c'mon, finally we get supposedly harsh game where everyone can't learn everything, people would have to co-operate to get the best results.. All that down the drain with the unlimited accounts
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Indigo Johnson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.22 11:20:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 22/10/2007 11:21:06 Really some people in this thread
The main reason there are farmers in Eve is because there is a market and a portion of the Eve community will buy isk with their RL money. This is the main problem with CCPs (claimed) inability to remove them from the game being a possible second. Nevertheless, if people stopped buying isk the farmers would soon die...
/back to fantasy land
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.22 11:26:00 -
[159]
-The only difference is one method of ISK buying is legal in-game and one is not.
-Both methods allow players to buy a percieved advantage ingame.
-Some people will play the game...others will buy their way in.
To my mind it goes a long way towards explaining the endless CTL-Q actions ingame (who wants to lose real money?). And the never-ending lag and desync petitions cluttering up the system (who wants to lose real money?). Not to mention the comedy-fitted/piloted kills.
I suppose through the sanctioned GTC method CCP benefits financially which is a good thing. But did CCP really intend the GTC system to be carte blanche for players with fat RL wallets to purchase an ingame advantage? I'd like to think this was not the case.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.10.22 11:32:00 -
[160]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
I bet ya u would get a lot less ' omg why isn't ccp doing anything' posts if u would give like a monthly update on bans and stuff, is it illegal/against privacy laws to post ingame names of chars who got banned? CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.10.22 11:50:00 -
[161]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone -The only difference is one method of ISK buying is legal in-game and one is not.
-Both methods allow players to buy a percieved advantage ingame.
-Some people will play the game...others will buy their way in.
To my mind it goes a long way towards explaining the endless CTL-Q actions ingame (who wants to lose real money?). And the never-ending lag and desync petitions cluttering up the system (who wants to lose real money?). Not to mention the comedy-fitted/piloted kills.
I suppose through the sanctioned GTC method CCP benefits financially which is a good thing. But did CCP really intend the GTC system to be carte blanche for players with fat RL wallets to purchase an ingame advantage? I'd like to think this was not the case.
So, can you explain why you quoted me in your complaint about GTC-trade?
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Tradelade
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Posted - 2007.10.22 11:53:00 -
[162]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone -The only difference is one method of ISK buying is legal in-game and one is not.
No it's not. Read up. Even if you keep repeating it, it doesn't make it true.
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Delichon
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.22 12:05:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Delichon on 22/10/2007 12:11:13 The forum ate my message!!! I am too sad to write it again :(
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.22 12:07:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone -The only difference is one method of ISK buying is legal in-game and one is not.
-Both methods allow players to buy a percieved advantage ingame.
-Some people will play the game...others will buy their way in.
To my mind it goes a long way towards explaining the endless CTL-Q actions ingame (who wants to lose real money?). And the never-ending lag and desync petitions cluttering up the system (who wants to lose real money?). Not to mention the comedy-fitted/piloted kills.
I suppose through the sanctioned GTC method CCP benefits financially which is a good thing. But did CCP really intend the GTC system to be carte blanche for players with fat RL wallets to purchase an ingame advantage? I'd like to think this was not the case.
So, can you explain why you quoted me in your complaint about GTC-trade?
Apologies...I probably hit "quote" for some reason as opposed to "reply".
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.10.22 12:47:00 -
[165]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: RuleoftheBone -The only difference is one method of ISK buying is legal in-game and one is not.
-Both methods allow players to buy a percieved advantage ingame.
-Some people will play the game...others will buy their way in.
To my mind it goes a long way towards explaining the endless CTL-Q actions ingame (who wants to lose real money?). And the never-ending lag and desync petitions cluttering up the system (who wants to lose real money?). Not to mention the comedy-fitted/piloted kills.
I suppose through the sanctioned GTC method CCP benefits financially which is a good thing. But did CCP really intend the GTC system to be carte blanche for players with fat RL wallets to purchase an ingame advantage? I'd like to think this was not the case.
So, can you explain why you quoted me in your complaint about GTC-trade?
Apologies...I probably hit "quote" for some reason as opposed to "reply".
On a side note: I totally agree with your concerns about the GTC-trade.
Players aren't playing on equal terms. The subscription fee alone should assure you to have the same possibilities as everyone else to succeed in Eve, but it doesnÆt.
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angggggry
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Posted - 2007.10.22 14:56:00 -
[166]
reaaaaaaaaaaal problem baaaaaaaaaaad solution
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Madam MixALot
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Posted - 2007.10.22 15:43:00 -
[167]
HOW CAN YOU STOP 1 BILLION CHINESE....cut the power!! "They're aliens man, how can they cut the power!!!"
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Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.22 16:01:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Madam MixALot HOW CAN YOU STOP 1 BILLION CHINESE....cut the power!! "They're aliens man, how can they cut the power!!!"
They are so way ahead of you dude
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.10.22 16:31:00 -
[169]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
Proof or it didnt happen.
Ship lovers click here |
Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.10.22 17:26:00 -
[170]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
I'll be concise (after some research and lambasting elsewhere):
It is hypocritical to scream about the "isk-farmer peril" when there is a CCP-sanctioned method for buying ISK via GTC sales. Either way some players will buy ISK for cash to give them a perceived advantage ingame...the only difference being who's real life wallet expands-CCP's or the ISK-seller.
It's great that folks care enough about the game to chase farmer/sellers..but whats the point when any idiot with a few extra bucks can buy themselves a top-line pilot/ingame toys simply by purchasing GTC's for ISK resale.
Clear enough?
GTCs support CCP, buying ISK from ISK sellers doesnt. Get that into your head.
Ship lovers click here |
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 17:52:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Loyal Servant on 22/10/2007 17:52:21 Chinese rice farmers buy GTCs.
This is how they play... They literally play for free.
Edit: Ok not literally, but damn close.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.22 18:35:00 -
[172]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 22/10/2007 18:35:43
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
I'll be concise (after some research and lambasting elsewhere):
It is hypocritical to scream about the "isk-farmer peril" when there is a CCP-sanctioned method for buying ISK via GTC sales. Either way some players will buy ISK for cash to give them a perceived advantage ingame...the only difference being who's real life wallet expands-CCP's or the ISK-seller.
It's great that folks care enough about the game to chase farmer/sellers..but whats the point when any idiot with a few extra bucks can buy themselves a top-line pilot/ingame toys simply by purchasing GTC's for ISK resale.
Clear enough?
GTCs support CCP, buying ISK from ISK sellers doesnt. Get that into your head.
Which part of my post did you fail to comprehend? Or have you bought a carrier/supercap using OOG resources recently? Shame about the proposed nerfs eh?
LOLS and *cloaks*
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.10.22 18:41:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
I'll be concise (after some research and lambasting elsewhere):
It is hypocritical to scream about the "isk-farmer peril" when there is a CCP-sanctioned method for buying ISK via GTC sales. Either way some players will buy ISK for cash to give them a perceived advantage ingame...the only difference being who's real life wallet expands-CCP's or the ISK-seller.
It's great that folks care enough about the game to chase farmer/sellers..but whats the point when any idiot with a few extra bucks can buy themselves a top-line pilot/ingame toys simply by purchasing GTC's for ISK resale.
Clear enough?
GTCs support CCP, buying ISK from ISK sellers doesnt. Get that into your head.
Do you think buying isk from farmers should be allowed if they donated all the money they earn to the red cross?
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citizen amarr33sd3g4
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Posted - 2007.10.22 19:13:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
I'll be concise (after some research and lambasting elsewhere):
It is hypocritical to scream about the "isk-farmer peril" when there is a CCP-sanctioned method for buying ISK via GTC sales. Either way some players will buy ISK for cash to give them a perceived advantage ingame...the only difference being who's real life wallet expands-CCP's or the ISK-seller.
It's great that folks care enough about the game to chase farmer/sellers..but whats the point when any idiot with a few extra bucks can buy themselves a top-line pilot/ingame toys simply by purchasing GTC's for ISK resale.
Clear enough?
GTCs support CCP, buying ISK from ISK sellers doesnt. Get that into your head.
Do you think buying isk from farmers should be allowed if they donated all the money they earn to the red cross?
Neither should be allowed. That does not mean buying isk straight from illegal sources is more cool than GTC for isk. Stop trying to bring BS hypothetical questions into the thread.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.10.22 19:16:00 -
[175]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Which part of my post did you fail to comprehend? Or have you bought a carrier/supercap using OOG resources recently? Shame about the proposed nerfs eh?
LOLS and *cloaks*
I dont see the market being affected by GTC sales? Do you? GTC sales are fine with me cuz it means money for CCP and it helps players with not much RL cash to play. I dont see a drawback in that.
About that advantage, so what? I dont care actually. As long as the ISK or the cash goes to CCP or to normal players, fine with me.
Btw, I have not bought a carrier/supercap using OOG resources recently.
Ship lovers click here |
Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.10.22 19:24:00 -
[176]
Originally by: citizen amarr33sd3g4
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
I'll be concise (after some research and lambasting elsewhere):
It is hypocritical to scream about the "isk-farmer peril" when there is a CCP-sanctioned method for buying ISK via GTC sales. Either way some players will buy ISK for cash to give them a perceived advantage ingame...the only difference being who's real life wallet expands-CCP's or the ISK-seller.
It's great that folks care enough about the game to chase farmer/sellers..but whats the point when any idiot with a few extra bucks can buy themselves a top-line pilot/ingame toys simply by purchasing GTC's for ISK resale.
Clear enough?
GTCs support CCP, buying ISK from ISK sellers doesnt. Get that into your head.
Do you think buying isk from farmers should be allowed if they donated all the money they earn to the red cross?
Stop trying to bring BS hypothetical questions into the thread.
Appearantly the usage of the money spent on ISK was important to Hellspawn01.
Quote: Neither should be allowed. That does not mean buying isk straight from illegal sources is more cool than GTC for isk.
Have I promoted GTC in any way in this entire thread?
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citizen amarr33sd3g4
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Posted - 2007.10.22 20:06:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Have I promoted GTC in any way in this entire thread?
You did make it sound like isk sellers are ok since CCP allows GTC to isk conversion.
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.10.22 22:04:00 -
[178]
Originally by: citizen amarr33sd3g4
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Have I promoted GTC in any way in this entire thread?
You did make it sound like isk sellers are ok since CCP allows GTC to isk conversion.
No, I didn't.
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kookookrazyCICHEN
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Posted - 2007.10.22 23:18:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: citizen amarr33sd3g4
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Have I promoted GTC in any way in this entire thread?
You did make it sound like isk sellers are ok since CCP allows GTC to isk conversion.
No, I didn't.
Yes. You did. You can type a few sentences why not since you keep asking us what is the difference between the two.
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Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.10.22 23:39:00 -
[180]
Originally by: kookookrazyCICHEN
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: citizen amarr33sd3g4
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Have I promoted GTC in any way in this entire thread?
You did make it sound like isk sellers are ok since CCP allows GTC to isk conversion.
No, I didn't.
Yes. You did. You can type a few sentences why not since you keep asking us what is the difference between the two.
Please provide a link to where I ask the difference between the two. Please provide a link to where I make it sound like isk sellers are ok since CCP allows GTC to isk conversion.
Untill then I will assume that you either like posting lies or just simply didn't finish first grade and thus can't read that good.
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6Bagheera9
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.10.22 23:52:00 -
[181]
I sincerely applaud your efforts to combat isk farmers and isk sellers. We in OSNAP try out hardest to exterminate these vermin and have met with some success. If I should ever run into you in <0.5 space I pledge to at least spare your pod and possibly your ship, circumstances permitting. Should you not be using any implants, I will also upon request send you home and give your corpse a respectful cremation. God speed in your cause.
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Pango Ein
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Posted - 2007.10.23 05:52:00 -
[182]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
Then why are the same 60+ characters buying 1 unit of ammo or water off contracts for 100-400M Isk each day since.
New bagmen since 10/19 : Regiment fund, Wealth regiment, Head paste
Banning the bagmen have no effect if they just make a new one the next day.
I guess Isk farming is ok if you just give it to an disposable alt to sell. By the way if you show contracts on Wealth regiment you can see a nice list of all the real isk farmers/couriers, like Jin Jisi, Superhuman Li, shi Pomfu, thimage, aodaman, Zhu Liya, poiew, camenozjl, smallturret, and Vera nicard.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.23 05:57:00 -
[183]
Edited by: F90OEX on 23/10/2007 05:57:04
Originally by: F90OEX
Originally by: ZeroMbutCannotJump Here is my contribution. I painstakingly went through all the already accepted contacts I could find and made an excel spreadsheet. Tons of contracts are up and waiting for more reverse transfers to occur. I noticed the names for the most part follow a similar convention. Two words, first is capital and second is not. Random nouns, sometimes with a strange adjective thrown in. All sound weird and very "babel fish Asian" like. I opened convo with one and pasted some romanized Chinese. He replied within 10 seconds with some complicated stuff...no idea what it means.
Sorry for the horrible formating. Anyways, who knows how much these people have actually made and sold (Only CCP, if they wanted)... this could be only one of their transaction methods...and only one of their "nodes."
Assembly hall .... 1m 3d SWA 102
^^^ thats one of the names that I saw in the lowsec system going back and fourth in a Bestower between 2 systems like the rest of them.
Well looks like Assembly hall .... is not one of them banned. I'm sitting in lowsec looking @ 68 china farmers in local and Assembly hall is in a Bestower beside me at the gate
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.23 05:58:00 -
[184]
I think my new sig fits this thread well.
I'm dangerous! Watch out! |
F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.23 06:26:00 -
[185]
Edited by: F90OEX on 23/10/2007 06:27:10 Edited by: F90OEX on 23/10/2007 06:26:42 70 in local atm 67 are NPC bots running around in shuttles and bestowers. Down the list is the same kinda names in local as pictured.
Bots in local
Wanna put your carrier or Mothership in use and become a -10 overnight this is the system
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Yon89
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Posted - 2007.10.23 06:36:00 -
[186]
LOL I swore at an idk seller and got kicked before he did
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RaTTuS
BIG Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.23 07:44:00 -
[187]
Don't swear in local then
and people petition all the dodgy contracts you can - with as much info as you can - also make sure you get the names right -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & RaTTuS Home
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.23 07:57:00 -
[188]
new nodwe : head paste ---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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Jaxxon Voers
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Posted - 2007.10.23 08:23:00 -
[189]
played a long time now...never got to upset about the BoB thing, or so many of the other obvious rampant nasty things going on. But this one really bugs me. Because quite frankly, CCP has made such a **** poor effort to control the problem that I suspect complicity. I am starting to think that CCP gets a cut from some of these groups or something, since they sure have no interest in stopping it.
The channels are hell, no ISD can possibly keep up with the insane reproductive rate of these Chinese spam masters. The systems are hell, who can actually enjoy a plex with 30 farmers stealing every item for 23hrs a day. In the Tvink COSMOS plex there is a toon "Woman Scorned"...you can find that Jaguar there anytime the game is online. At the very least that account must be guilty of account sharing, which is a EULA violation. Unless there is actually someone out there who can play Eve on 7 hrs of sleep a week. I cant, I have tried.
Nice thread OP, good hunting. Now if there was only someway to hold CCP's balls to the fire and get them to protect the people who play the game the way it was intended.
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Major Death
Caldari Space Salvage Incorperated
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Posted - 2007.10.23 09:16:00 -
[190]
Why are NPC corp 23/7 pharming accounts allow to exist in the game? How much time is now spend clearing up the forums because trail accounts can spam them with isk adverts? Are CCP more concerned with Fanfest than with sorting the current problem out?
My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;) |
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Jimblob
Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.10.23 11:48:00 -
[191]
it's perfectly possible for a player to be online 23/7 without being accused of account sharing.
Certain titan pilots are well known for their ability to play every hour the server is up. ............................... Data i post are my opinions, I am not a spokesperson for my corp or alliance. |
Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 13:10:00 -
[192]
Originally by: F90OEX
70 in local atm 67 are NPC bots running around in shuttles and bestowers. Down the list is the same kinda names in local as pictured.
Bots in local
Wanna put your carrier or Mothership in use and become a -10 overnight this is the system
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
Uh.... see why people ask for proof. Care to elaborate?
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.23 14:57:00 -
[193]
What we really need right now is some sort of announcement by ccp of a major change to the game dynamics to create thousands of threadnaughts.
Something that will create a lot of fuss so the continuing farming of hundreds of isk selling accounts can remain a quiet background topic.
But who would we get to take the blame for such a thing?
---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.23 15:29:00 -
[194]
Edited by: YunFu Yan on 23/10/2007 15:36:12 Edited by: YunFu Yan on 23/10/2007 15:34:08 I don't understand why active subscribers here are doing the work of CCP staff...
It takes less than a hand full of queries during maintenance time to 'tag' supsicious accounts.
Another query and you'd have the node characters.
Then just automaticly ban all chars that transferred isk to the node and you're done.
It's not rocket science... it's simple SQL. It can be done automagically. The only reason CCP would have to not do it would be that they benefit from the isk sales.
Give me create-statements for the tables holding contracts and market data and I'd write you those queries in a matter of minutes!
Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |
Arnold Duncan
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Posted - 2007.10.23 15:39:00 -
[195]
Is it legal to try to scam them? Like putting similar contracts or so?
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:43:00 -
[196]
i don't see why not. Scamming people is permitted and encouraged. It's what makes Eve the game it is.
So yeah, if you can scam them go for it.
---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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Pango Ein
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Posted - 2007.10.24 03:54:00 -
[197]
Todays Isk Farmer Bagman/node is "with milk". If you hurry you can buy 2 Iridium Charge S for 400M Isk in the Jovainnon system. As usual all the usual suspects have already made their purchases.
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ZeroMbutCannotJump
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:03:00 -
[198]
Edited by: ZeroMbutCannotJump on 24/10/2007 13:06:22 Wowzers! Do this! Open up contracts and search for any high-end faction item. Look at the list of names of people selling them. Some/many of them will be "weird" sounding like many of the names listed in this thread. Look at the corp histories and contract histories of said characters. If you dig around, many of them link to SOME OF THE PEOPLE LISTED ON THIS THREAD, like Jin Jisi (who is still not banned, and seems to be a major node for both ISK and faction items). You will also find a very disproportionately high amount of "weirdly spelled names that look like they originate from a certain oriental country."
In short, many of the same people doing these highly suspicious reverse ISK transfers also have ties with major faction item sellers.
Start looking at who is selling high end faction/officer gear and you will find tons of names like these there.
Here are some interesting faction related farmer looking people to get you started: Some may be innocent, but some look extremely suspicious.
Mucica Caldari Woman Ailaiweiyou CJMS xiao520 <--- big Fasarina dede o <---- links with Jin Jisi
Also, unrelated to the above, but still related to suspicious looking people:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=620660 This guy looks a bit (but not as much as the others, TBH) suspicious. Looking at his posting history, he buys GTCs for several other silly named people (silly name does not instantly equal guilty), many of them the exact same age as himself and from SWA. Standings-wise, they also look like the courier mission running people listed way earlier in this thread. Also, one or two of them link into massive faction item trade...and by going through who has sold what to who, I linked back to Jin Jisi, who links into everything. So I guess this paragraph may be related to the rest.
aliner ada yama greender yuancongxin01 <--- looked at his forum posts to get these names yuancongxin02 InoueOrihime Achurakoenig Rihannah
So.... have at it people. What do you think?
Oh, and *bump*
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Lillith Rajani
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 16:25:00 -
[199]
*bump* Back to page 1 with this thread and I hope they uncover and ban 'm all
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fugimi
|
Posted - 2007.10.24 21:33:00 -
[200]
I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. All public channel's are in complete chaos, or scared of losing control. The Isk buys a nickel's work, trade hubs are going bust, highsec traders keep a gun under their freighter. Punks are running
wild in the regions and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know space is unfit to live in and the system is unfit to ban, and we sit watching our corp channel while some local newsletter tells us that today we had fifteen suicides and sixty-three isk selling crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like
everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't undock anymore. We sit on the station, and slowly the space we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our channels. Let me have my peace and my daily chat and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I
want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your GM because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the isk sellers and the crime in space. All I know is that first you've got to get mad.
You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, Goddamnit! My character has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get out of your pods. I want you to get out right now and go to the forum. Open it, and click your heart out, and yell,
I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!'
I want you to get up right now, login, go to your forums, open them and click your heart out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to post, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then
we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the isk selling crisis. But first get out of your pods,
go to the forum, open the thread, click your heart out, and yell, and say it:
"I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"
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Dex Treme
Amarr Pardit Lastor Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.24 21:53:00 -
[201]
/signed OP
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.10.24 22:10:00 -
[202]
How is this still unresolved?
Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated [PIA] Recruitment Thread |
Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.10.24 22:36:00 -
[203]
I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!
Ship lovers click here |
Mecha Polcha
Colonial Merchant Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.24 23:06:00 -
[204]
At last... I can agree with Fugimi... good point made there.
It should be a top priority...
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.25 09:51:00 -
[205]
happyforever receives 862 mil isk over the course of 4 days from "the whites".
Nice starter gift for a 4 day old character.
I liked Network too. ---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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Ess Erbe
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.26 04:17:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Ess Erbe on 26/10/2007 04:17:27 Jovainnon and other systems with high-level couriers are still full of shuttles and bestowers.
CCP seriously.
We love you and all, but this is ridiculous.
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Terminus adacai
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.26 04:33:00 -
[207]
For the love of Eve, CCP, fix this damn thing already! This is pretty damn ridiculous...
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.26 05:37:00 -
[208]
IT is obvious that the characters that were 'banned' are still tossing out the usual contracts.
Just look them up. I can find 2 or 3 nodes from just 5 names on my list of isk farmers I keep in my addressbook in a 5 minute timeframe.
Sending in a petition just to try it = canned 'we are looking into it' response with an immediately closed petition.
CCP is friendly to gold farmers, that much is clear.
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Pango Ein
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Posted - 2007.10.26 15:55:00 -
[209]
Todays Isk Farmer/Bagman/node is "Actor". All the usual suspects have already made their purchases.
If this was within the game rules why do they make a new disposable alt every other day?
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:44:00 -
[210]
CCP has seen this thread, and their employees have responded to it.
They tell tales of bans, but the 'banned' group is on my address book and online.. at various times.
Bumping this to the top every day as some of you have done only reinforces the very well known fact that CCP loves their money and they are not going to ban accounts that use GTCs because then the GTCs would not be bought, which would hurt them and the companies that SELL these GTCs. (isk farmer accounts are all paid with GTCs)
The problem here is not enough community outrage, because 75% of the eve population does not care, and that CCP like money, as in 'REAL' ISK, a.k.a Icelandic kr=na :)
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Havok Pierce
Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.26 17:54:00 -
[211]
Originally by: ZeroMbutCannotJump Here is my contribution. I painstakingly went through all the already accepted contacts I could find and made an excel spreadsheet. Tons of contracts are up and waiting for more reverse transfers to occur. I noticed the names for the most part follow a similar convention. Two words, first is capital and second is not. Random nouns, sometimes with a strange adjective thrown in. All sound weird and very "babel fish Asian" like. I opened convo with one and pasted some romanized Chinese. He replied within 10 seconds with some complicated stuff...no idea what it means.
Anyways, here is the list:
Name / Age / Corp / ISK "donated"
scene obtains ....16dSWA120 Appropriately shows ....16dSWA50 Swims across ....16dSWA70 Diligent me ....20dSWA160 Bans entire ....20dSWA110 Evaluation because ....20dSWA70 Makes you ....30dSWA230 Financial department ....1m 1dPTS Excessive you ....1m 2dSWA110 Increases Uniform ....1m 3dSWA245 Machine cat ....1m 3dSWA200 Machine cat ....1m 3dSWA200 may read .... 1m 3dSWA126 Punishes pulls ....1m 3dSWA30 Chest cavity ....1m 3dSWA199 granulated substance ....1m 3dSWA260 Right seizes ....1m 3dSWA140 Expanded eye ....1m 3dSWA120 recompenses ....1m 3dSWA90 Greatly happy .... 1m 3dSWA580 Cartridge case ....1m 3dSWA100 Opens pleasure ....1m 3dSWA100 Opens pleasure ....1m 3dSWA100 Assembly hall ....1m 3dSWA102 Origin you ....1m 3dSWA78 Practices divination ....1m 3dSWA140 Geography law ....1m 3dSWA175 Resists stubbornly ....1m 3dSWA292 Thinks every ....1m 3dSWA199 Sigh magnetism ....1m 3dSWA120 has you ....1m 3dSWA100 Publication ....1m 3dSWA100 Military person ....1m 3dSWA270 Doublet smoke ....1m 3dSWA200 Law net ....1m 3dSWA113 Pleasure place ....1m 3dSWA50 pressure energy ....1m 3dSWA140 Regardless minute ....1m 3dSWA89 Unimpeded ....1m 3dSWA105 Micrometer calipers ....1m 3dSWA200 Sikong race ....1m 3dSWA200
Sorry for the horrible formating. Anyways, who knows how much these people have actually made and sold (Only CCP, if they wanted)... this could be only one of their transaction methods...and only one of their "nodes."
A good chunk of those characters are macrohaulers in Murtherand (esp Appropriately shows), I've blown up 4-5 of their identically-fit bestowers all carrying mission goods.
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Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.26 18:38:00 -
[212]
Sooooo, I got an evemail from 4 out of 6 my agents in Loes, that they were moving somewhere else and quitting the agent bidniss.
I confirmed that that 3 out of lvl 4 q20 agents are not giving out missions, and 1 out of the 2 lvl 30 q20 ditto.
Pretty fast nerf imo, comments?
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Saphros
Minmatar Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.10.26 18:51:00 -
[213]
I fear that the agents in Orfrold VII - Moon 8 - Poteque Pharmaceuticals Biotech Production needs to investigate the pod pilots they are hiring at the moement. I suspect long working hours and lack of union influence.
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Drykor
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.26 19:24:00 -
[214]
Yeah, have a look at low sec metropolis between Ualkin and Hror and surroundings, plenty of hauler chars that never talk, always move together, only drop mission loot, proceed the same way after they get their ship blown up, have ******** names, etc etc. But it's obvious CCP doesn't care.
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Sellerella2
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Posted - 2007.10.26 20:07:00 -
[215]
Should we start a new thread to grab CCP's attention? Feel like that's the only way to get anything done. Anyways, there is a new isk bank by the name of *with milk*. His depositors are:
smallturret aodaman Superhuman Li Publication Vera nicard poiew camenozjl Sigh magnetism has you registered permanent Leap Forward Diligent me Evaluation because Bans entire Appropriately shows Pleasure place Practices divination Geography law Thinks every Military person Doublet smoke Closed river Grand opening Jams many Bill exchange periodical stops Passenger vechicle Eats opens Micrometer calipers Sikong race Visting team Opens situation Cartidge case Makes you scene obtains thimage pressure energy fahaiheshang Regardless minute Law net Unimpeded Kilogram stomach Presses buckles Start spacially Jin Jisi periodical pays Relocation of stomach anger Seeks Shi Pomfu
Jesus that is as lot. The sad part is all but the banker are paying accounts. Think CCP will ban em?
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Sellerella2
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Posted - 2007.10.26 20:13:00 -
[216]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
What a bummer =/ Caught CCP in it's first lie. My innocence is lost.
Almost all of the characters previously listed are still in game (and on my new list). I guess that's all we need to know about how much CCP cares. Yes, now we understand why you don't publish your successes with banning farmers/sellers - because well, you don't.
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Pooka
Caldari United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2007.10.26 21:51:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Pooka on 26/10/2007 21:53:32
Originally by: Sellerella2
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
What a bummer =/ Caught CCP in it's first lie. My innocence is lost.
Almost all of the characters previously listed are still in game (and on my new list). I guess that's all we need to know about how much CCP cares. Yes, now we understand why you don't publish your successes with banning farmers/sellers - because well, you don't.
Wonder which alliance these ISK framing ALTs work for Wasn't there one MAJOR alliance that was romured to sell ISK on e-bay Tatins aren't cheap yopu know... PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT IT IS HAPPENING AGAIN...TRUST NO ONE
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.27 00:08:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Saphros I fear that the agents in Orfrold VII - Moon 8 - Poteque Pharmaceuticals Biotech Production needs to investigate the pod pilots they are hiring at the moement. I suspect long working hours and lack of union influence.
Real or a joke? If that is real, instead of banning the farmers they just shut the agents down and leave the farmers to keep farming elsewhere?
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Ess Erbe
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.27 11:29:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Sellerella2
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well, we don't announce these things very often, but we've banned the people involved in this "Large Scale Criminal Activity".
What a bummer =/ Caught CCP in it's first lie. My innocence is lost.
Almost all of the characters previously listed are still in game (and on my new list). I guess that's all we need to know about how much CCP cares. Yes, now we understand why you don't publish your successes with banning farmers/sellers - because well, you don't.
I really want Wrangler to comment on this.
Did you flat out lie, or are you actually in the process of preparing a megaban?
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.27 16:34:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Ess Erbe
I really want Wrangler to comment on this.
Did you flat out lie, or are you actually in the process of preparing a megaban?
Good luck on that one. They like ISK.... why ban paying customers? They would ban a smartbombing raven in jita before an isk farmer.
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Draycar Hazaran
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.27 18:27:00 -
[221]
Get this fixed CCP... |
Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.28 00:09:00 -
[222]
The bagmen get banned. The farmers don't. That's fine. It's good. If the bagmen get banned after the isk is in their wallets but before they can actually sell it then they lose all the man / bot hours that go into farming it. Bearing in mind the farmers probably buy GTC through secure ccp approved trade they can keep farming forever building up a surplus of isk as they have done for free.
It's neither rational or reasonable to ban accounts because they run missions and accept stupid auctions.
Only real way to cut down on real cash to isk conversion is to either 1. ban people who buy isk as well as those selling killing the market for black market isk 2. create better systems for detecting automation of clients reducing the isk generated by bot farmers or 3. creating new npc corps which can be wardecced that you are moved to if you have more than 2 million skillpoints. Strongly encouraging players with the ability to make large amounts of isk to move into real player corps even if they have to make them 1 man corps and opening up everyone who can earn lots of isk to the risk of warfare. Not a vastly popular idea i'm guessing but it would certainly put an end to the macromining hulk pilots i seem to find in every highsec ice belt. ---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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Sellerella2
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Posted - 2007.10.28 01:12:00 -
[223]
That makes no sense. Don't ban people for buying stupid auctions? You do realize these are the farmers right? Their *only* purpose is to get isk to sell. Why again should they not be banned? Sure they'll only make new accounts, but it sets em back a little bit. And could *actually* show the playerbase they are trying. Rather than just having CCP Wrangler come here to throw us a line to make us happy, thinking we are too stupid to see the characters weren't banned. Damn, CCP must think we are pretty stupid customers.
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Stakhanov
The Good Fellas
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Posted - 2007.10.28 03:04:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Reverend Revelator Sooooo, I got an evemail from 4 out of 6 my agents in Loes, that they were moving somewhere else and quitting the agent bidniss.
I confirmed that that 3 out of lvl 4 q20 agents are not giving out missions, and 1 out of the 2 lvl 30 q20 ditto.
Pretty fast nerf imo, comments?
Interesting. That would explain why we see farmers all over the place , trying new agents apparently.
Oh well , I should manage to get those T2 rails before trinity... then hope it's still possible to lock bestowers in time from out of sentry range.
Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
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Pango Ein
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Posted - 2007.10.28 03:17:00 -
[225]
The Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node "Actor" has made his second round of financing today using contracts. I guess he does not have anything to worry about any more.
It seems this operation has the approval of ccp, if so can someone tell me where all the isk goes?
For those not paying attention, search for the player "Actor" and press the Show Contracts button on his Character Info Page. He is auctioning single units of ammo for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And he is 4 days old, ie. a disposable alt.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.28 04:39:00 -
[226]
I've asked and asked, same isk farmers in the same systems, isk spammers non stop in the channels.
IMO CCP have done sweet FA about it ....
How many times do we have to ask for something to be done, especially the channels
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.28 05:01:00 -
[227]
I have learned in my 2 years of hunting isk farmers and macro miners that as long as you pay, you get to play.
They are either: A. Unable to do anything about it. B. Don't care as long as their wallets are lined with gold. C. They do things that we cannot even see that just simply do not dent the quantity of farmers in eve, they are inept.
This is, for all intents and purposes, cheating. The argument that they ban the receiver of the isk and not the suppliers because 'they did nothing wrong' just does not hold any water.
As a matter of fact, that argument that they just blindly give their isk every day unknowingly to another player to 'be nice guys' is just complete and utter fracking BS.
Sure, they might be 'following' the isk trail to see who it goes to next but it won't be long before they start trading outside of the public eye in transfers at stations. They will trade 1 rocket for 1 billion isk in the station now is all....
Truth is, guys like Voogro, myself, and anti-isk farmer corps/alliances like UCAM do not have to chase farmers. We don't even get paid, and we have been NERFED by CCP.
They don't want us shooting their precious isk farmers.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.28 05:03:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Loyal Servant on 28/10/2007 05:03:45
Originally by: F90OEX
How many times do we have to ask for something to be done, especially the channels
AFAIK, CCP only seem to respond to threadnaughts like from redfleet or the t20 incident, or the cloak nerf.... When there are massive quantities of upset people trashing the boards they tend to listen more.
When it is civil they read it once and maybe the first pag or 2 of the thread then it's a dead issue and they move on.
Oh, and they say they ban people but really don't
Edit: its too late and i'm fumbling the kb..
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Jaxxon Voers
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Posted - 2007.10.28 07:09:00 -
[229]
about half your list is online in the Resbroko system right now. I might have to shoot a few if I see them out of the station
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Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2007.10.28 07:44:00 -
[230]
/me does the obligatory bump. This is amazing.
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Sawny Bean
Xeno Tech Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.28 08:54:00 -
[231]
Wool over the eyes is not "working as intended."
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Saphros
Minmatar Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.10.28 09:28:00 -
[232]
As far as I can figure, the best (or perhaps the only) way to deal with the farmer pests are to either replace NPC corporations or some way force people out of them after a few days.
There is in reality no need to stay in a NPC corporation for longer then a few days. Starting and running your own corporation doesnÆt take that much time/effort. IÆm sure thereÆs a possibility to start a ætime to create your own corporation tutorialÆ after a week or so.
IÆve suggested this earlier, but why not gradually raise the tax rate in NPC corporations from day one? After a week of playing youÆll get an question if you like to start the æform your own corporation- tutorial, where Aurora will ask you something in the lines of æDonÆt you think youÆre old enough to start your own business, these jerks at XXX-corporation are morons who are ripping you offÆ
Yes it would be a bit demanding, and yes it would require youÆre not a complete idiot, but itÆs time to raise the high jump bar a bit or EVE will end up like the majority of todayÆs online games; uninteresting and unchallenging.
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Jaxxon Voers
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Posted - 2007.10.28 10:36:00 -
[233]
so we spent some time killing a few of them...no response, no real cargo to speak of...lots of single ammo, single frozen food crap...
we did see some really cool tactics used against us. I especially enjoyed the sacrificial lamb. That is a nice technique. One shuttle up at about 15km, everyone locks in on him since its so hard to catch those damn things anyways...and then other shuttles about 15s behind him. Very clean operation.
armed escort, you look good in a pod.
CCP, this is the most shameful thing yet. For your own pride this problem should be addressed. If it were my company, I would make things like this a priority over even content. At some point people are gonna go past being jaded and just give up on you.
All of this stuff was running from Hek out thru Hjor and into lowsec from there. I would love to see everyone come spend some quality time at least interfering with the effortless money laundering these assclowns are doing. Maybe we could make that whole little section of space a blue zone for honest players, and a no-limit kill zone for anyone with a toon under 45d old in a starter corp. Yeah a few newbs might suffer for it, but 99% of what we saw out there deserved to get shot.
We saw maybe 40 different names, all had suspicious contract history. The same 150m ISK ammo rounds...including a bunch i recognized from the list that was supposedly banned earlier in the thread.
Guy named Actor is a new hub.
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Donald Trump
Minmatar Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.10.28 10:56:00 -
[234]
Nice one CCP....
This isnt just the macrohaulers doing it, its everywhere, in all 0.0 space, in every missionhub you find isk farmers accepting odd contracts from golden leader or finacial legion (or simalar names) who are isk laundering backmen probaly paying some RL cash for them accepting stupid contracts.
Problem is that this is so profitable to resell isk for the market that when you ban one, he will just come back with a new char or a new guy takes his place. In my limited brain I could see that if you banned enough isk sellers and backmen to get the price of the isk they sell at gtc level, you would start to see them leaving, because they couldnt compete with the legal gtcs.
Interesting to see that they are removing the hauler agents tho, I always thought all those farmers must been like gold for ccp, producing quite small amounts of isk per hauler than for example a 0.0 raven ratting 23/7. Nice to see some action being taken, tho saying that youve banned some chars, when you really havent isnt looking good.
My petition would be for ccp to give us some clear line of what we players can do towards this problem, like saying that reporting the odd names giving out some t1 items for 200m, which gets accepted seconds after, will truly be looked into. Maybe a little report every month on how many you've banned and how much isk youve removed to give us a little feeling that we're helping a little atleast by reporting such chars.
When something is being widely used by the iskfarmer comunity, its probaly so good that it should be toned down.
0.0 Ravens (good torp change, still cloak problem to kill em) Mission ravens (completely invulnerable, not much affected by torp nerf) Haulers in lowsec (removing agents?) Big mining blobs in highsec (was some good idea coming up to get rid of em?)
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.28 11:16:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Sellerella2 That makes no sense. Don't ban people for buying stupid auctions? You do realize these are the farmers right? Their *only* purpose is to get isk to sell. Why again should they not be banned? Sure they'll only make new accounts, but it sets em back a little bit.
Well, in the case of the characters i named who have repeatedly purchased 1 unit of ammo or tradegoods from a node character there's a lot of circumstantial evidence. It would certainly set the farmers back if their 1 year old isk farmers were banned for links to Isk selling. The problem is that these characters do what genuine players do, they run missions and buy stuff to support missions, they buy and sell assets and apart from the funny auctions they're indistinguishable from a real player to a database query. Maybe ccp have run a query to find out what the farmer population of eve is and the number is just so high that they cannot bear to lose all those subscription fees. ---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.10.28 12:02:00 -
[236]
Just wait till you get banned and tell CCP that if those ppl can cheat/exploit/break eula then they cant ban you. Either rules are for everyone or for nobody.
All eve pilots are even. But some pilots are more even than others. (it seems)
Ship lovers click here |
Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.28 16:02:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Hellspawn01 Just wait till you get banned and tell CCP that if those ppl can cheat/exploit/break eula then they cant ban you. Either rules are for everyone or for nobody.
All eve pilots are even. But some pilots are more even than others. (it seems)
Sure they can, and they will. Farmers = $$$ for CCP
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Sellerella2
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Posted - 2007.10.28 18:40:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Secretary Maybe ccp have run a query to find out what the farmer population of eve is and the number is just so high that they cannot bear to lose all those subscription fees.
And that's the conclusion I've drawn. I was able to find 30 or more accounts off of 1 banker. People here are listing a few more bankers. which means even more accounts. Next thing you know we are talking about an actual percentage of the paid Eve accounts, and I honestly believe this is why CCP doesn't do anything. If CCP has decided they want the subscription fees, fine, just make the playerbase aware of that so I can decide if I'd like to continue supporting a game like this. What p*sses me off is when a CCP employee comes here and blatantly lies to us, a lie which *any* Eve player with two brain cells to rub together can verify is a lie. Not only does CCP not care how we feel about the isk farmers, they think we are pretty stupid too.
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Pango Ein
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Posted - 2007.10.28 18:42:00 -
[239]
The Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node "with milk" has returned and has made his second round of financing today using contracts. All the usual buyers made their purchase however they are slow to claim the mad loot they bought(1 round of Iridium Charge L for 100M isk each).
Can anyone tell me what they do with all this Isk?
For those not paying attention, search for the character "with milk" and press the Show Contracts button on his Character Info Page. He is auctioning single units of ammo for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And he is 5 days old, ie. a disposable alt(or maybe he bought a GTC and became a "paying" account).
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Cruthensis
Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.10.28 20:01:00 -
[240]
Originally by: voogru I think my new sig fits this thread well.
Indeed.
I'm not sure which of these is most sickening for me:
1. ISK farmers all over the place making the game 'smell' bad. 2. ISK buyers evidently still buying ISK in large enough amounts to support the massive numbers of farmers. 3. The strange disparity between what CCP say about ISK farmers and what they seem to do (or not) about them. 4. The people who profess to love this game yet in the same breath, defend ISK farmers for being poor and ISK buyers for not having enough time to play. (I'm looking at you Vaden and co )
The oft quoted 'they don't want to lose subscriptions' still looks to be the likely reason we still have so many 23/7 characters 'playing' this game.
Personally, I do like the idea of allowing them to farm a load of ISK, only to remove it, without trace or explanation.
(ps Voogru:I want it as my sig! Can I link to it? Pretty please.)
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.28 23:12:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Cruthensis
(ps Voogru:I want it as my sig! Can I link to it? Pretty please.)
Go for it.
Infact, I invite everyone to protest the farmers by using that exact image as a sig. I will be updating it soon with more farmer names, make sure to use the image thats on my web server.
I'm dangerous! Watch out! |
Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.10.28 23:23:00 -
[242]
many of the with milk auctions have not been collected suggesting the farmers don't work weekends or that the bagman got banned and let the farmers know.
No new bagman seems to have appeared, i guess someone got a braincell among the farmer group.
---------------------------
The signature. Here i can type my Bio.
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Lithalnas
Amarr Headcrabs
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Posted - 2007.10.28 23:36:00 -
[243]
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Cruthensis
(ps Voogru:I want it as my sig! Can I link to it? Pretty please.)
Go for it.
Infact, I invite everyone to protest the farmers by using that exact image as a sig. I will be updating it soon with more farmer names, make sure to use the image thats on my web server.
however the link in your sig is broken (for me at least) -------------
fixed for greater eve content |
Pooka
Caldari United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2007.10.28 23:51:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Secretary many of the with milk auctions have not been collected suggesting the farmers don't work weekends or that the bagman got banned and let the farmers know.
No new bagman seems to have appeared, i guess someone got a braincell among the farmer group.
Not claim / collected but the ISK changed hands.
PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT IT IS HAPPENING AGAIN...TRUST NO ONE
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Tradelade
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:59:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Sellerella2
And that's the conclusion I've drawn. I was able to find 30 or more accounts off of 1 banker. People here are listing a few more bankers. which means even more accounts. Next thing you know we are talking about an actual percentage of the paid Eve accounts, and I honestly believe this is why CCP doesn't do anything. If CCP has decided they want the subscription fees, fine, just make the playerbase aware of that so I can decide if I'd like to continue supporting a game like this. What p*sses me off is when a CCP employee comes here and blatantly lies to us, a lie which *any* Eve player with two brain cells to rub together can verify is a lie. Not only does CCP not care how we feel about the isk farmers, they think we are pretty stupid too.
QFT.
Back to top.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:18:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Sellerella2 And that's the conclusion I've drawn. I was able to find 30 or more accounts off of 1 banker. People here are listing a few more bankers. which means even more accounts. Next thing you know we are talking about an actual percentage of the paid Eve accounts, and I honestly believe this is why CCP doesn't do anything. If CCP has decided they want the subscription fees, fine, just make the playerbase aware of that so I can decide if I'd like to continue supporting a game like this. What p*sses me off is when a CCP employee comes here and blatantly lies to us, a lie which *any* Eve player with two brain cells to rub together can verify is a lie. Not only does CCP not care how we feel about the isk farmers, they think we are pretty stupid too.
So true. If they really do admit such things, then they loose the rest of credibility if there is anything left after all that BS that they throw at us lately. I might start to believe in CCP again if I see a bulletproof proof. So far that didnt happen.
Ship lovers click here |
Lurtz
Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:58:00 -
[247]
so since it looks like CCP is ignoring this, should we be making alts with similar names and contracts to try to siphon some of this isk?
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Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:03:00 -
[248]
Simply add a filter on the incoming network traffic that excludes traffic from Korea, Taiwan, China and Singapore and we would see a 90% drop in ISK seller spam...
And yes, that IS a controversial view of things, but that does not make it any less true...
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Zandree
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Posted - 2007.10.29 23:57:00 -
[249]
I've added some farmers to my addressbook. I see them come online and then suddenly stop and never come back on. Thus I know they get banned. People expect to petition macro haulers going back and forth and get them immediately banned. But what they do not think about is perhaps those haulers are working to pile up the ISK which does not get sold right away. Until the ISK is sold there is no reason for CCP to ban them, no proof. And farmers have figured out that farming and selling ISK at the same time will get all accounts banned - so why how farm first for a few months then sell later? Meanwhile players see them come online and think CCP is not doing anything about it. Well they can't until ISK gets sold and it may be many months before that happens.
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Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.30 00:23:00 -
[250]
Bah Isk laundering 4t ignore |
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Sellerella2
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Posted - 2007.10.30 02:11:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Zandree Well they can't until ISK gets sold and it may be many months before that happens.
This is where you are missing the point. These farmers give their money to a "bank" character. They themselves aren't doing any selling, so by your logic they will *never* get banned, but they'll continue getting isk to be sold. CCP can ban any account for any reason they choose, it's quite legal. But it doesn't appear they are.
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Poena Loveless
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Posted - 2007.10.31 22:15:00 -
[252]
Originally by: F90OEX There is 3-5 lowsec systems all chained together, few times a week in the early hours of the morning, its little Jita with 98% of the haulers china farmers/ISK laundering NPC chars all using the market, to "wash" there isk, few times I've been there, there are probably about 40-60 in local.
Its probably been going on for months, under the radar of CCP, but yet no one does anything.
Name the systems and we can just camp the gates ;P
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Pango Ein
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Posted - 2007.11.01 04:36:00 -
[253]
Today's disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node was "boarder go". "Actor" and "with milk" seem to have retired. All the usual suspects have made their one unit of ammo purchases resulting in billions in profit for "boarder go".
For those not paying attention, search for the player "border go" and press the Show Contracts button on his Character Info Page. He is auctioning single units of ammo for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And he is 2 days old, ie. a disposable alt.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.11.01 05:08:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Poena Loveless Edited by: Poena Loveless on 31/10/2007 22:28:48
Originally by: F90OEX There is 3-5 lowsec systems all chained together, few times a week in the early hours of the morning, its little Jita with 98% of the haulers china farmers/ISK laundering NPC chars all using the market, to "wash" there isk, few times I've been there, there are probably about 40-60 in local.
Its probably been going on for months, under the radar of CCP, but yet no one does anything.
Name the systems and we can just camp the gates (like someone said, no one would care about a smartbombing mom in *this* situation) ;P
Just go to LOES and all the lowsec systems around there are full of them.
Have fun
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fugimi
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Posted - 2007.11.01 12:42:00 -
[255]
Edited by: fugimi on 01/11/2007 12:44:01 Right now, as i write this post a new char called "Boarder Go" is laundering massive amounts of isk.
in his laundering circle u can find MANY of those same characters who'v been active (and reported) since my first post.
obviously CCP dosnt ban the involved accounts and all they do is give us 1 or 2 bans as a token every month, that dosnt even slow those isk sellers down since their farming accounts r still active and running, providing a constant flow of isk to sell.
but even though the PROOF TRAIL exist and those accounts r implicated in that illegal network, CCP "choose" to let them be.
its a huge encouragment for isk sellers to keep their work, and a call for all those who r interest to come to eve and exploit it.
and infact we can see more and more different website links everyday, joining the oready VERY sick & thick daily spamming ritual.
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.01 13:52:00 -
[256]
Better yet, Bayesian filters.
Given that CCP controls the entire in game chat and evemail system there's no reason they can't stop spam entirely.
I heard one CCP dev say it would slow the system down too much but if Google can make gmail work virtually instantly with 95% of all email being spam and me seeing none of it, surely they can handle 35k people. --
Support fixing the EVE UI
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Alejandro Zapata
Minmatar PAK
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Posted - 2007.11.01 15:51:00 -
[257]
CCPs silence is hard to take.
There is no reason this thread should have fallen to the second page.
Ram it down their throats until they listen.
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Sellerella2
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Posted - 2007.11.01 16:07:00 -
[258]
Anyone at Fanfest wanna corner them on this?
1) What is their position on these farmer accounts who themselves don't sell isk, but give to the banker accounts?
2) Don't they believe their already less than steller credibility is hurt by lying to the playerbase about banning farmers that they don't ban?
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JCLawson
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.01 16:18:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Sellerella2 Anyone at Fanfest wanna corner them on this?
1) What is their position on these farmer accounts who themselves don't sell isk, but give to the banker accounts?
Has it been mentioned why they can't (or ignore) the outflow of isk from these banker accounts? Unless these accounts are merely gathering bilions of isk for the hell of it, it has to be going somewhere, to a plethora of different accounts. Surely that can be easliy monitored.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2007.11.01 18:14:00 -
[260]
I think the reason the ISK seller accounts are not dealt with immediatly is simple: They are not the primary target. The ISK buyers are. As you all have stated it is easy even for a player to follow the flow of ISK. So CCP only needs to wait until someone buys ISK and gets a transfer from the known farming nodes. Then CCP can firmly plant a fist on the ISK buyers face, cutting a hole in his wallet and make that person hurt by having just wasted a batch of RL money. I think PrismX stated that he doesn't really hate the ISK sellers but more the ISK buyers as those are creating a market for the ISK.
I think this is a viable and efficient tactic. The ISK sellers are much like a Hydra, growing heads back when they are cut off. The ISK buyers are what the Hydra feeds on. So instead of fighting a rather hopeless fight against this regenerating monster, CCP seeks out to eliminate the Hydra's source of nutrition. The beast will simply starve.
No ISK buyers -> No ISK market -> No ISK sellers.
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2007.11.01 18:51:00 -
[261]
No ISK Sellers = no ISK market.
Real World can show you that punishing drug users has done nothing to stop the flow of drugs.
What this thread reveals makes me sick. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2007.11.01 19:05:00 -
[262]
Edited by: Abrazzar on 01/11/2007 19:09:20
Originally by: Pwett No ISK Sellers = no ISK market.
Real World can show you that punishing drug users has done nothing to stop the flow of drugs.
What this thread reveals makes me sick.
What you fail to realize is that ISK buyers are much, much more easy to discourage from buying ISK than a drug addict can be discouraged from buying drugs. Equaling the ISK market with the drug market is [mentally handicapped] at best.
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2007.11.01 19:31:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Pwett on 01/11/2007 19:31:58
Originally by: Abrazzar
What you fail to realize is that ISK buyers are much, much more easy to discourage from buying ISK than a drug addict can be discouraged from buying drugs. Equaling the ISK market with the drug market is [mentally handicapped] at best.
Yes, because weed is sooooo addictive and our jails are completely not filled to the brim with people who bought a dime bag of weed.
I'm so metally handicapped, I don't know how I can type. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Demje
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Posted - 2007.11.01 20:14:00 -
[264]
you're all being stupid.
1. CCP makes money off of isk farmers. 2. isk farmers sell to people, but their sales are tracked. 3. people who break the EULA to buy isk subsequently have their isk removed and will not buy isk again, + if they bought anything they get into negative numbers meaning their character is trashed unless they want to dig themselves out of it. 4. they're out real money for breaking the EULA, and will probably not buy isk again, and since there are only so many people on the planet this means the source of income for farmers will eventually run dry. 5. isk farmers will just get around character bans, its much more logical to keep track of the ISK farmers so their sales can be removed once they tranfer it to a buyer, thus punishing buyers. 6. you're all stupid.
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2007.11.01 21:57:00 -
[265]
Edited by: Pwett on 01/11/2007 22:00:10 You do realize that if you only attack demand (the buyers) while not attacking supply (the node feeders) that it ONLY makes isk cheaper?
Seriously? I mean, we're talking econ 101 here. If you kill the supply, isk will get to the point where it will be TOO expensive to buy. Then people will just buy GTCs... but that's a separate issue.
See, you need to find a way to make it so expensive that people will simply make the decision that it would cost too much to cheat.
Resolution? Don't let trial account access contracts. Make it skill based or hard-code it. I don't care. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.11.01 22:06:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Demje Edited by: Demje on 01/11/2007 20:18:08 you're all being stupid.
1. CCP makes money off of isk farmers. 2. isk farmers sell to people, but their sales are tracked. 3. people who break the EULA to buy isk subsequently have their isk removed and will not buy isk again, + if they bought anything they get into negative numbers meaning their character is trashed unless they want to dig themselves out of it. 4. they're out real money for breaking the EULA, and will probably not buy isk again, and since there are only so many people on the planet this means the source of income for farmers will eventually run dry. 5. isk farmers will just get around character bans, its much more logical to keep track of the ISK farmers so their sales can be removed once they tranfer it to a buyer, thus punishing buyers. 6. you're all stupid.
btw, you'll find a lot of names like "boarder go" or "mad cherry" or "dime one" in the russian chat channel. go take a look.
Every buyer buys mostly only once, every seller sells ISK as long as they have the ISK and they have lots of ISK. No sellers -> no buyers. No buyers -> spam still there.
Ship lovers click here |
Sellerella2
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Posted - 2007.11.02 04:49:00 -
[267]
I mentioned this thread 2x in another isk seller complaint thread, when a GM went off about how we all need to work together to stop isk sellers (talk about blowing smoke...). Both posts were deleted within 30 seconds. How's that for fast service!
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.11.02 05:08:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Sellerella2 I mentioned this thread 2x in another isk seller complaint thread, when a GM went off about how we all need to work together to stop isk sellers (talk about blowing smoke...). Both posts were deleted within 30 seconds. How's that for fast service!
GMs say ISK farmers are not the problem, only ISK sellers.
I see what they've done there, and support them wholeheartedly against the terrorists ISK sellers! *stamp of approval*
Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words. |
Pango Ein
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Posted - 2007.11.06 06:41:00 -
[269]
Today's disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node was "Don cat". Now selling Electronics, Mechanic, and Drones skill books for 100-500M Isk each. All the usual suspects have made their skill book purchases resulting in billions in profit for "Don cat".
For those not paying attention, search for the player "Don cat" and press the Show Contracts button on her Character Info Page. He is auctioning single units of ammo for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And she is 1 days old, ie. a disposable alt.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.11.06 11:53:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Pango Ein Today's disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node was "Don cat". Now selling Electronics, Mechanic, and Drones skill books for 100-500M Isk each. All the usual suspects have made their skill book purchases resulting in billions in profit for "Don cat".
For those not paying attention, search for the player "Don cat" and press the Show Contracts button on her Character Info Page. He is auctioning single units of ammo for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And she is 1 days old, ie. a disposable alt.
Gold laundering at its finest and nothing we can do.
Ship lovers click here |
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Razor Jaxx
Minmatar Cosmic Odyssey
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Posted - 2007.11.06 13:38:00 -
[271]
I'm starting to believe that in spite of their claims, CCP can't be bothered driving ISK farmers & sellers out of the game - probably because they already represent a fair share of EVE's subscription revenue.
I mean, CCP has total access & control of the database, how hard can it be to cross-reference characters with high corp standings and permanent mission activity with characters that take part in dodgy contract deals (i.e. grossly unbalanced item exchange values)? This could be taken care of by an automated process being run every downtime.
Not only that, identifying bagmen using the same means and tracing the distribution of ISK to (supposedly) ISK buyers wouldn't be any harder. The database is likely collecting all relevant information to dismantle ISK selling ventures from A to Z.
So it has to be an actual, financial-driven decision not to hunt these people down.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.06 13:53:00 -
[272]
Edited by: Loyal Servant on 06/11/2007 13:53:50
Originally by: Razor Jaxx I'm starting to believe that in spite of their claims, CCP can't be bothered driving ISK farmers & sellers out of the game - probably because they already represent a fair share of EVE's subscription revenue.
It is, definitely!
Originally by: Razor Jaxx
I mean, CCP has total access & control of the database, how hard can it be to cross-reference characters with high corp standings and permanent mission activity with characters that take part in dodgy contract deals (i.e. grossly unbalanced item exchange values)? This could be taken care of by an automated process being run every downtime.
Not only that, identifying bagmen using the same means and tracing the distribution of ISK to (supposedly) ISK buyers wouldn't be any harder. The database is likely collecting all relevant information to dismantle ISK selling ventures from A to Z.
So it has to be an actual, financial-driven decision not to hunt these people down.
I have been arguing this for a long time. is it a financial, business decision - yes.
Until the playerbase rises up and says WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE - all bets are off, and isk farming and isk buyers will remain.
Until then, we will have CCP trolls like Kieron posting here about their 'rare disclosure of bans' and say they banned one of these isk laundering operations, on the first or second page of this thread...
Thing is, the characters are in my address book - and they are still here in eve laundering isk.
They will lie in order to continue doing business with isk farmers.
Edit: botched quote code.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.11.06 14:28:00 -
[273]
This is why carebears crying for security is bad for the game.
With a few small changes we could police stuff like this ourselves. And what more effective cure could there be?
- NPC corpers should be limited to only ships/mods that are trainable while on a trial account or maybe even more limited. Want bigger, better mining or mission ship? Join a PC corp.
- Wardecs should not be totally dodgeable. Only X amount of corperation changes per character per week or something similar.
- Roll back the Privateers nerf a little bit. 100s of wars at once was indeed rediculous. But the nerf went too far to the other extreme.
Want to make billions in highsec? Want to wipe out entire belts in highsec? Want to run missions 23/7? Fine. Do it WITHOUT being practically completely untouchable.
But the cries of the paranoid always win out. "You just want unlimited griefing blah blah". Which is completely unfounded. There's highsec player corps that have existed for years that have never been war dec'ed. And if people had to leave their NPC corps to be able to fully use all game content, there would be so many PCs that they would be even less likely to get war dec'ed. Lost in the crowd, so to speak.
But it's selfish, paranoid players that must have their NPC security blanket that give these isk selling dorks the loopholes to slip through.
These topics always make me a bit disapointed with CCP, and disapointed with my fellow players.
---- WSSH |
Pango Ein
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Posted - 2007.11.07 05:57:00 -
[274]
Today's disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node is still "Don cat". Selling Electronics, Mechanic, and Drones skill books for 100-500M Isk each.
Good news is that the older characters have not been active for 3-6 days. However there are still 40 younger characters making up for the lost output.
Additional good news! All the characters have now moved into Datae Corp [DDP]. Datae corp is affiliated with Charisma Q Corp [CHARI].
There is also another smaller set of Isk Farmers using the same method to launder isk. The current bag man for this group is "Lovemaike"
For those not paying attention, search for the player "Don cat" and press the Show Contracts button on her Character Info Page. He is auctioning single skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And she is 1 days old, ie. a disposable alt.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.11.07 07:54:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Roy Batty68 .. - Roll back the Privateers nerf a little bit. 100s of wars at once was indeed rediculous. But the nerf went too far to the other extreme.
Interesting theory - CCP nerfed the privateers at the behest of ISK farmers and gold sellers whos subs they are dependant on to fuel their ungodly icelandic lifestyles.
SKUNK
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MorbidPenguin
Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:04:00 -
[276]
I've been waging a personal war against the following:
BK520 mr gree The Guards sanling
and all the other alts buying huge amounts of GTCs in the Character and Time Code bazaar to supply farmers. It's fairly apparent they are farming ISK.
I also have proof they are selling ISK. BK520 convoed me on his main, who happens to be in a well-known alliance, and offered to sell me ISK.
XXX > i'm BK520 MorbidPenguin > Ah, really? XXX > what do you said ? MorbidPenguin > Your Chinese? MorbidPenguin > you're Chinese, I mean. XXX > yeah XXX > i'm hongkong MorbidPenguin > Do your friends run missions? MorbidPenguin > Do they fly RAvens? XXX > yes. MorbidPenguin > Where does the ISK go? MorbidPenguin > Do you know where I can buy ISK? XXX > friends run missions MorbidPenguin > DO you have a website? XXX > How much do you need ISK XXX > i have XXX > [email protected] <---- tom.com is a Chinese website. Looks a lot like Yahoo. MorbidPenguin > You sell ISK? MorbidPenguin > How much? XXX > 5.0$=100M MorbidPenguin > So all your friends.... they run missions and give you the ISK? MorbidPenguin > THen you sell the ISK? XXX > yes MorbidPenguin > This chat log has been recorded. MorbidPenguin > I don't buy ISK from *******s like you that sell it. MorbidPenguin > I'm sending this to CCP and informing your CEO. MorbidPenguin > You ruin the game by selling ISK. YOu just tried to sell it to me.
Edited to take out his name. Like I said, he's in a well_known alliance. Gave me the email and a price,and I immediately sent a petition to CCP.
If you see BK520, mr gree, The Guards, or any of the other alts in the Time Code forums trying to buy GTCs for farmers, please help stop them.
Join in-game channel Hard-Recruiting to get signed up. |
Pango Ein
Topps Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.07 16:15:00 -
[277]
Today's disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node is "hves". Now selling Navigation, and Drone Navigation skill books for 100-500M Isk each. All the usual suspects have made their skill book purchases resulting in billions in profit for "hves".
Don't forget that the isk farmers involved in this operation have all moved into Datae corp however I do not see any wardecs on them yet. For those not paying attention, search for the player "hves" and press the Show Contracts button on her Character Info Page. He is auctioning basic skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And she is 2 days old, ie. a disposable alt.
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Darth Nerf
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Posted - 2007.11.07 16:17:00 -
[278]
Disgusting, but it's all supported by CCP... I mean they support CCP... erm, what??
Originally by: Li Flying Everyone, I was only 220 million ISK If your card 220 million to sell my words
3 I ~ Thank you all to the
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Eshezo
Old Buggers
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Posted - 2007.11.07 16:52:00 -
[279]
OK, I've been doing some homework .... and will continue to do so and update here, lets hope CCP bloddy do something because we are all putting time into it.
OK so... lets all get heavy with these guys:-
They actually started in December 2006 with a couple of characters Zhu Liya; Vera Nicard; Jin Jisi; Shi Pomfu.... these characters were playing around and this is when it looks like tehy started to get the system together it wasn't until September when they started hitting it hard and on the 14th-18th of September they created alot of characters, most of the 46 members in Datae's Corp were established around then (although in another Corp).
So when they got serious they set up suppliers and Buyers, unlike originally when their characters were doing both.
So the money trail goes like this:-
Character one places multiple orders with multiple characters, when those characters have the isk they buy the contracts consolidating the isk with a small number of characters ready for laundering.
The characters at the moment who are consolidating the isk are: Golden Leader; Finacial Department; Don Cat; boarder go; with milk; Head paste; Regiment wealth; Regiment fund; and Hves (there is no point in banning these characters because they are just re-created to consolidate the isk from others), they add a new one every few days.
So who supplies the isk ?, a good chunk of it comes from the 46 members in Datae's corp, each member seems to transfer something like 5 billion in a single batch of contracts, who are they..... Has you; sign magnetism; Armed; My Motive; Dry COuntry; Publication; Leap forward; registered; The motive's; Unimpeded; Law net; Regardless; Capital; Bill exchange; Resists; Thinks every; Geography Law; Right Country; Presses buckles; Kilogram stomach; Dilligent me; Passenger Vehicle; Evaluation because; Dilligently you; Bans entire, and I'm getting the other names as we speak. Remeber these names and the corp are active online and the supplies of the actuall isk so KOS should be applied to them.
Other characters that supply isk but not in a corp and these characters must be getting their isk to buy from somewhere else, ie they are being fed isk to buy just to confuse the trail because they are relativley new characters and not in a corp and certainly not capable of earning it never the less they show as heavy buyers of the contracts:- stomach anger; for opportunity; thimage; aodman; pressure energy; Shi pomfu; Jack eyes; Relocation; Swims across; Moakes you; Assembly hall; Origin you; scene obtains; Jin Jisi; Poiew; Closed river; Periodc=ical stops; Doublet smoke; Military person, there are more but I don;t have the relationships yet.
OK so mark the characters in your book, KOS on sight and lets expose them, it doesn;t matter what they create I'll keep the trail up to date and I;m almost at a stage now where I can see the the origin of the whole trail, I have all the characters on a relationship sheet which shows me all transactional relationships and dates now, if anyone wants specific info, ie dates, corps where they are now, who traded with who then ask me and I'll post it.
LET THEM know if they read this they will be stopped if not by CCP by us the eve community.
As a last note there is an Alliance link somewhere, think about it there is no way that these guys could make the isk without being in 0.0 for extended period and there is no way they will survive in 0.0 without being Allianced in some way, this starts to go in the direction of why CCP are maybe hesatant in wiping them out because it could involve the distruction of an Alliance, lets face it we have some pretty big alliances these days, all I can say to them is be carefull because it won;t matter how they move now they will be tracked and their time is running out.
rgds
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Eshezo
Old Buggers
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Posted - 2007.11.07 16:59:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Eshezo on 07/11/2007 17:01:24 Edited by: Eshezo on 07/11/2007 17:00:27 Lets also get heavy with them....
MorbidPenguin posted the convo log with tom.com listed well here is the info regarding tom.com:- (THIS IS PUBLIC INFO SO THERE IS NO BREACH OF ANY RULES REGARDING THE PUBLISHING OF IT ON THE FORUM)
Domain Name: TOM.COM Registrar: MELBOURNE IT, LTD. D/B/A INTERNET NAMES WORLDWIDE Whois Server: whois.melbourneit.com Referral URL: http://www.melbourneit.com Name Server: BROWN.HUTCHCITY.COM Name Server: EDNS.WYITH.NET Name Server: NS1.TOM.COM Name Server: NS2.TOM.COM Status: clientDeleteProhibited Status: clientTransferProhibited Updated Date: 18-oct-2006 Creation Date: 13-mar-1995 Expiration Date: 08-dec-2014
INfact let me know if everyone would like the info on all isk selling websites ?, happy to post it if so...
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.11.07 17:19:00 -
[281]
Thats just insane. This is starting to look like a fulltime job to fight them instead of just disrupting their farming operations.
Btw, I¦m interested how that one alliance got out of that story when they were hiding ISK farmers in their space and knew about it. If your conclusions are right then I dont care if any alliance gets kicked out of eve for harbouring ISK farmers. They dont deserve to stay.
Ship lovers click here |
Eshezo
Old Buggers
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Posted - 2007.11.07 17:30:00 -
[282]
If I remeber correctly they were an alliance that was kinda working for BOB protecting an area at the time that BOB couldn't and it was to the credit of BOB that they instigated the removal of them because it was known that they were full of isk farmers but at the end of the day it was the death of an alliance and I agree with you that it should be if they are just harbouring isk farmers.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.11.07 17:55:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Eshezo If I remeber correctly they were an alliance that was kinda working for BOB protecting an area at the time that BOB couldn't and it was to the credit of BOB that they instigated the removal of them because it was known that they were full of isk farmers but at the end of the day it was the death of an alliance and I agree with you that it should be if they are just harbouring isk farmers.
I think you are speaking of another incident. The alliance that I think of has been called out here in this forum section by a known ISK farmer hunter. I try to find that post (gotta love forum searches).
Ship lovers click here |
Aypse
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 18:37:00 -
[284]
The OP, Pango, and others have done an incredible service to the game here with this thread. Honestly, I am disappointed that CCP has just stuck their head in the sand with this one.
Originally by: Oveur
Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
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AnnMarie Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.07 18:39:00 -
[285]
Wow first I want to comend all of you actually doing the work... thats alot of info.
Next I want to say that of course CCP isnt going to do anything about it, its quite obvious by the fact that they posted a 1 liner to try and appese us(the EVE community) and on page 3 of all places. 7 more pages of hardcore investigative info and no more response. CCP would lose alot of money by banning all those accounts, becuase(puts on his tin foil hat)I think CCP contacted these farmers already in RL and told them if they pay CCP an extra dividend of there profits they wont do anything about it, so not only is CCP getting there GTC sold and sub fees, there also making a little on the side.. which is maybe when they decided to open an office in beijing.
If CCP really cared about its Game and not the money, made from its game, then they wouldnt care about the size of the playerbase...infact a slighlty smaller playerbase would result in better game play and less work for them = more time to actually make game improvements.
As well you have to remember that CCP isnt run by the origional 7 anymore, they had to expand and hire REAL business men that really only care about 1 thing.. the bottom dollar, a.k.a ISK, a.k.a Icelandic Kronos.
this is all a business and the best thing for all of us as citizens to do to make an impression on them is 1. stop paying for all our accounts for no less than 3 months, that would make a huge financial hurt for CCP.
2. Start encouraging another game manufacturer to come out with a game near exactelly like EVE(same skill learning system, Battle style)
3. Everyone wardec in game the corps which are harvesting all these farmers, if there alliance bound then we form our own allaince and camp them in every second we can, I know theres lots of US and Euro Players that could prolly cover most every hour of the day and we can thru locator agents track everyone of these guys.
4. I also think we need to make this real news not just forum posts, whoever is maybe a real journalist can send NY times a comprehensive story about the whole thing, I mean they already did a story about EVEs economy. They( the journalist) can write the same story and send it to EVE news. im sure they wont mind bringing it to light..
We as a community have to remember that Bad news is the most effective news. CCP dosnt want bad PR. they WILL act quickly when it brings a bad light on them...as of right now all the international community have done is praise CCP for making leaps and bounds on the game.. lets be the ones to enlighten them.
DOWN WITH ISK FARMERS- IF THATS CCP THEN DOWN WITH THEM TOO...
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Dahin
Maza Nostra oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2007.11.07 18:55:00 -
[286]
The sad state of affairs is that even though eve is designed to be self-regulated, CCP's love for the hardcore pve group (also known as phat market pie) has made the isk selling schemes possible.
Had we been able to wardec and hunt to extinction every single farmer, we'd do it gladly. Hell, it'd probably lead to witch hunts, but that'd give the game more flavor
And it's not the pve players that the nubcorps protect, it's their fears. I mean seriously, the worst a small-time corp can have is get wardecced for a week from a random bored pirate corp attempting silly extortion.
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Rathyn Mercer
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Posted - 2007.11.07 19:04:00 -
[287]
Datae's corp....
I beleive thats the name of the corp holding the main farmers... I might be wrong but after reading 10 pages of info thats what I got.
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Haldor Gret
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.11.07 20:23:00 -
[288]
Kill them all In Rust We Trust Duct Tape Forever |
Eshezo
Old Buggers
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Posted - 2007.11.07 21:19:00 -
[289]
Edited by: Eshezo on 07/11/2007 21:21:14
Originally by: Rathyn Mercer Datae's corp....
I beleive thats the name of the corp holding the main farmers... I might be wrong but after reading 10 pages of info thats what I got.
No kinding, thats what I and others have said in previous, posts anyway , I've done some more work this evening and will be posting tomorrow extra info and some web links to really detailed info to make it easy to get them on our KOS lists and track them, also a secure area to post really relevant info and espeonage away from here because they will simply read this anyway and make faster changes.
On the subject of Alliance involvement and my thoughts, I can confirm that there is an Alliance link but I'm not at a point to confirm it yet, however tomorrow I'll be back on the case and my main focus is to confirm the links that I have strong suspisions of further.
rgds
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Darth Nerf
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Posted - 2007.11.08 07:47:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Eshezo ..also a secure area to post really relevant info and espeonage away from here because they will simply read this anyway and make faster changes.
How about a in-game mailing list or chat-channel? I'd participate with a verifiable main there.
Originally by: Li Flying Everyone, I was only 220 million ISK If your card 220 million to sell my words
3 I ~ Thank you all to the
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Sellerella2
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Posted - 2007.11.08 08:11:00 -
[291]
In case you guys haven't figured it out yet, CCP doesn't care that we've outted these farmers. They are very aware of these accounts. Their single stance (as said in this thread, another thread posted today, and one posted last week) is that players need to stop buying isk. Somehow we need to shame people into no longer buying isk, and these farmers and spammers will go away. The problem is, who here doesn't know of even one player of a mmorpg who buys ingame currency, knows it's against the rules, and doesn't care? What does CCP expect us to do? And why is it the responsibility of non-buyers to police buyers? Heck, we are trying - this thread is proof - and does CCP try to meet us half way and do something about it? Nah. Oh that's right! They said some accounts were banned. Only they weren't...
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Per Bastet
Amarr B.O.O.M Socius Tutaminis Velox
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Posted - 2007.11.08 11:41:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Siriyana And, I have plans on killing every last one of them that comes through the gate in one hell of a gankfest sometime in the near future. :)
Can you Give us warning so we can Join in?
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Pango Ein
Topps Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.09 07:17:00 -
[293]
"hves" the disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node is still selling Navigation, and Drone Navigation skill books for 100-500M Isk each. All the usual suspects are from "datae's corp", a spin off of "charisma q corp", and have made their skill book purchases resulting in billions in profit for "hves".
"Don cat" the disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Node is also still selling Navigation, and Drone Navigation skill books on a smaller scale. The buyers are mostly drop outs from "datae's corp". I guess they don't want to put all their eggs in one basket.
All the contracts are being made in Jufvitte (0.5) - Verge Vendor or Todifrauan (0.1) - Metropolis
For those not paying attention, search for the player "hves" and press the Show Contracts button on her Character Info Page. He is auctioning basic skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers. And she is 3 days old, ie. a disposable alt.
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Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2007.11.09 07:56:00 -
[294]
Originally by: MorbidPenguin I've been waging a personal war against the following:
looks like we aren't going to see BK520 ever again but no worries, he'll make another character and be back making posts requesting GTCs for 100+ other characters in a few days
guide to game time codes |
voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.11.09 08:18:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Hellspawn01 Thats just insane. This is starting to look like a fulltime job to fight them instead of just disrupting their farming operations.
Yes, it's a full time job.
And CCP has nobody dedicated to doing this task full time, as far as I know.
Hate Farmers? Click Here |
Adam Weishaupt
Minmatar Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.
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Posted - 2007.11.09 08:41:00 -
[296]
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Hellspawn01 Thats just insane. This is starting to look like a fulltime job to fight them instead of just disrupting their farming operations.
Yes, it's a full time job.
And CCP has nobody dedicated to doing this task full time, as far as I know.
The problem is that labor in China is so undervalued because of the massive labor pool...it doesn't make a lot of economic sense for CCP to devote someone to it on a full-time basis, and they're never going to discourage everyone, because access to a computer in an internet bar is cheap, and so is labor, especially for some unskilled kid who's just screwing around and making some HKD/RMB on the side. I've never done ISD/GM, so I don't know the tools they have available to fight this sort of thing. I'm sure they care, and take out the easier targets, but it would be nice to see some more analysis of the impact.
I can't post killboard links, but there was some guy in The Church who killed 300 haulers in one day that were ferrying around one unit of janitors, one exotic dancer, one damage control I, clearly all part of this. I commend him for his truly epic haxploit gatecamp of doom, and encourage more piracy as the answer to ISK farming. We should be grateful we can even have an impact, since we aren't sharded.
Also, I thought we were going to be able to scan down non-covert ops cloaked ships eventually? That would make a difference, as well as being a needed feature besides.
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.11.09 08:58:00 -
[297]
Edited by: voogru on 09/11/2007 08:59:41
Originally by: Adam Weishaupt
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Hellspawn01 Thats just insane. This is starting to look like a fulltime job to fight them instead of just disrupting their farming operations.
Yes, it's a full time job.
And CCP has nobody dedicated to doing this task full time, as far as I know.
The problem is that labor in China is so undervalued because of the massive labor pool...it doesn't make a lot of economic sense for CCP to devote someone to it on a full-time basis.
Well, we can't 100% stop crime in real life, so we might as well not have a police force right?
A single person dedicated to this task in CCP would have an astronomical impact on the game, when I dedicated myself to chasing farmers down, I could find just literally hundreds of people who are pretty much tied to ISK selling one way or another.
And the only tools I had was:
1. Escrow & Escrow scamming ISK sellers/buyers/farmers trying to launder money. 2. Contracts 3. The logserver application that comes with EVE. 4. A web based utility to convert player character ID's to a clickable link to find out character names.
That's it, and I was able to generate very reliable and usually right on evidence against ISK Sellers/Farmers/Buyers.
There is no reason why a GM, with access to real tools, can't do the same thing. What takes me 30 minutes to do, takes a GM 2 seconds to do, and I was pretty efficient.
What was not efficient was the pathetic responses to the petitions and lack of action on utterly blatant cases of farming & ISK selling. I fully understand that when I petition a group of farmers they wont be banned instantly.
The problem is when they are not banned after several months after I discovered them and called them out on it.
Some people say, Well if they ban them they come right back, GREAT, that means CCP's income is not affected, and they are still hurting the farmers by making them start all over again.
Hate Farmers? Click Here |
Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2007.11.09 09:08:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Adam Weishaupt
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Hellspawn01 Thats just insane. This is starting to look like a fulltime job to fight them instead of just disrupting their farming operations.
Yes, it's a full time job.
And CCP has nobody dedicated to doing this task full time, as far as I know.
The problem is that labor in China is so undervalued because of the massive labor pool...
Employ some chinese to catch the farmers then. -
Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345 |
Sin Meng
Gallente Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.11.09 09:32:00 -
[299]
Hey this thread is cool and informative and all but can we knock off the whole "Chinese are to blame" game here? Its just gonna get locked at this rate. -------------------------
EVE is a sandbox with land mines, deal with it. |
Aypse
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.09 13:36:00 -
[300]
Originally by: voogru
The problem is when they are not banned after several months after I discovered them and called them out on it.
QFT.
CCP - This problem has gotten out of hand. You all play the game. YOU KNOW how many farmers are out in 0.0. YOU KNOW how many macros are farming your missions. Its time for a serious and specific dev blog addressing your player's concerns about these matters. You guys have created and continue to create a fantastic game, but in this particular area you are really dropping the ball. Your current methods of dealing with this are insufficient, please make corrections.
Originally by: Oveur
Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
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Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.09 17:15:00 -
[301]
:| Isk laundering 4t ignore
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.09 18:24:00 -
[302]
I'm with Voogru on this.
Farming is so far out of hand at this point that you may as well just shut the thing off.
The problem is that there is obviously a market for the isk, which means people are buying it left and right.
We need a massive ban stick wielding around here pronto.
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Ess Erbe
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.09 18:50:00 -
[303]
Agreed. One month ban for first ISK buying offense, as well as a *very* stern GM message stating that they *will* permanently ban them the next time, and they *will* discover it just like they did now.
Weekly popup about the consequences for buying ISK should be displayed to all who log in.
Some would say that a permaban should be put in place at the first offense, and I understand their reasoning, but I feel that even ISK buyers should have a shot at redemption.
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Anti Protagonist
Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.11.09 18:52:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Ess Erbe Weekly popup about the consequences for buying ISK should be displayed to all who log in.
No thanks. Pop-ups sucked on websites, don't need them for the game now.
I need a sig.... |
Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.09 22:02:00 -
[305]
Agreed. popups = bad.
Just ban isk buyers.
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Pango Ein
Topps Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.10 06:36:00 -
[306]
"hves" and "Don cat" formally the the disposable alt Isk Farmer/Bagman/Nodes have upgraded to active accounts using GTC ordered by BK520. It looks like they will be continuing still selling Navigation, and Drone Navigation skill books for 100-500M Isk each without fear of being banned.
BK520 was ordering lots of GTC but pressure from other players has forced him into use alts like "The guards". There are so many Isk farmers buying in the GTC forum that it is hard to know who is who.
Fortunately their purchases of GTCs increase the ISK value of GTC which in turn reduces the value of the ISK they are selling.
Another GTC buyer, "Lord utbh" ordered GTC for the founder of Datae's corp , Datae. The same order included GTC's for "hoho cool" and blueangle whose roles have yet to be determined.
For those not paying attention, search in game for the player "hves" or "Don Cat" and press the Show Contracts button on their Character Info Page. They are auctioning basic skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers.
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Darth Nerf
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Posted - 2007.11.10 08:28:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Pango Ein
BK520 was ordering lots of GTC but pressure from other players has forced him into use alts like "The guards". There are so many Isk farmers buying in the GTC forum that it is hard to know who is who.
"blant wwaass" is another of his aliases, buying GTC's for chars like:
9 Character name: efsin 10 Character name: oilmn 11 Character name: ikjuhg 12 Character name: sonwtwo 13 Character name: it granite 14 Character name: one graphite 15 Character name: english old 16 Character name: meat ancient 17 Character name: u umlaut 18 Character name: three years 19 Character name: rotten potato 20 Character name: rich rcher
22 Character name: bluesister 23 Character name: jack road 24 Character name: furioussister
3 Character name: ikjuhg 4 Character name: sonwtwo 5 Character name: it granite 6 Character name: one graphite 7 Character name: english old 8 Character name: meat ancient 9 Character name: u umlaut 10 Character name: three years 11 Character name: rotten potato 12 Character name: rich rcher
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 16:13:00 -
[308]
Most of us have already established that the 'accounts banned' are still in play and still buying 1 ammo for 500 million isk.
I add them to my address book and i add notes to them :)
Time consuming, yes.... but I have detailed info that way.
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Ess Erbe
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.10 18:39:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Loyal Servant Most of us have already established that the 'accounts banned' are still in play and still buying 1 ammo for 500 million isk.
I add them to my address book and i add notes to them :)
Time consuming, yes.... but I have detailed info that way.
Time consuming but necessary. CCP needs to be reminded of how their customers are unsatisfied with their actions towards the ISK farmers.
Suspend buyer accounts!
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Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 20:42:00 -
[310]
On another note, I would be content if CCP would at least give me the tools to ignore the problem. As long as they let ISK sellers spam me, spam trade channels and such, its going to be at the front of my attention and I'm going to demand action.
Here's my idea.
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr War Dawgs
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Posted - 2007.11.10 21:38:00 -
[311]
all they need to do really is ban the accounts the isk ends up in...
when they start spreading out the isk amongst them selves they then do a massive ban. -
At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
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Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.12 17:11:00 -
[312]
Edited by: Jobby on 12/11/2007 17:11:35 In some convoluted way, is this akin to cra.cking down on drug dealers? Demand is what drives supply, if only knobs couldnt buy isk.
Filter 4tl. Isk laundering 4t ignore
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.11.12 18:25:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Ogdru Jahad all they need to do really is ban the accounts the isk ends up in...
when they start spreading out the isk amongst them selves they then do a massive ban.
As if. Buyers just end up in negative wallet, thats it. And it has been proven here that sellers dont get banned.
Its always the same. Topics like this get a tiny golden bar but no answer. As I said before: IF this topic were about beer or dev boobs, it would be filled with golden bars more than you can count. And where are they now? Screw them tbh.
Ship lovers click here |
LathanRiose Devers
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Posted - 2007.11.12 18:50:00 -
[314]
Edited by: LathanRiose Devers on 12/11/2007 18:52:46 You are looking in the wrong direction for a solution to this problem.
As long as its possible to buy and sell things, transfer isk, it's going to be possible for isk sellers to operate. There is no way CCP can manually look at every transaction in the game, or even all the slighly odd ones. How many stations have a shuttle being sold for 9mil in them? There are simply far too many transactions to hope to spot and stop even a small number of suspicious ones.
It is impossible to remove the mechanics for making isk and transferring isk, the game's economy and existence depends on these. Its also extremely hard to tell 100% if someone is a normal player or involved in isk buying/selling. Plenty of players have weird names, lots of people put up silly contracts/sell orders hoping someone will accidentally buy something for 100 times its value. It is nigh impossible for CCP to distinguish clearly enough between legit and illegal actions / players in the amount of time they have to look at each case. Therefore it is not possible to seriously dent isk selling by manually banning/hurting perpetrators.
This is like the police thinking they can stop drug use by locking up drug dealers. No drug addict has ever given up a habit because their dealer has been put in prison, another one fills their place almsot immediately or they simply go somewhere else. Obviously the police need to lock up drug dealers, but has almost no overall effect on the drug trade each time one gets locked up, overall it is simply far to vast to be affected by something so small. CCP is like a police force with 5 men, against a drug trafficing operation with 5000. They cannnot hope to seriously dent the isk selling/RMT trade because there are too many people doing it. All the players out there thinking they are being shining vigilante knights blowing up macro miners or farmers are wasting their time, I doubt they even hurt 5% of of the farming characters out there. The reason is this, isk selling/buying is limited by buyer demand, not by the amount of isk the farmers can make.
Isk farming is an extremely scalable operation, if they have an increase in demand of 10%, they will simply make, buy, or reactivate a few more accounts to cope with demand. Yes there is an overhead of time in seting up a decent ratting/mining character, but they probably have dormant accounts or likely a huge a isk surplus to cope with this. My guess is no real money transfers are ever stopped by a lack of isk to sell, there are too many farmers, with too much isk in the bank, and isk "production" is too scalable for demand to higher than supply for a short time. You people need to understand this: RMT in EVE is not limited by the amount isk sellers can make. Stopping them altogether is not possible, hurting them only hurts their profit margins.
Because of the economics of it, the only way to stop isk selling/buying it is to kill the MARKET for isk sellers i.e. people buying isk.
Without people willing to buy isk for real money, there is no such things as RMT/isk buying. It would evaporate overnight if no one wanted to buy isk for money. CCP needs to be much harsher on people caught buying isk to limit demand, as limiting supply is useless. Perma banning accounts, possibly multiple accounts of a single player, removal of all in game assets and isk, halving skillpoints, and a forum / page naming and shaming all those caught are all ideas that could deter people from buying isk.
In summary, stopping isk farming, laundering and transfer is not possible through policing, or game design. Manually hurting/punishing offenders will only dent the operation, because there will never be enough manpower / time to seriously affect it. Deterrence through much harsher punishment for those caught BUYING isk is the only way to seriously dent the RMT market in eve. Farmers and sellers will disappear, becase they have no one to sell to.
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.12 19:18:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Every buyer buys mostly only once, every seller sells ISK as long as they have the ISK and they have lots of ISK. No sellers -> no buyers. No buyers -> spam still there.
While this might seem logical at first it's completly false. Isk buyers have infinate supply, they can always farm more isk. It doesn't matter how much isk they lose. If the game had no faucets this might work since you can dwindle thier supply down till they can no longer sell, but currently if you take all thier money away nothing gets accomplished since they just make 30 new accounts and start farming again. ----------------------------------------------- "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation." |
Aypse
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.12 20:31:00 -
[316]
Sorry Lathan, but I disagree on many of your points.
This thread is not looking in the wrong direction. Its simply looking at 1 of the many ways to spot the problem.
No one is looking to remove the mechanics to make/transfer isk. What the OP and others are looking for is for CCP to take stronger action against ISK sellers. Not only that, its extremely easy to spot a portion of the culprits in the ISK trading. In particular this thread is focusing on the characters and accounts responsible for acting as middle men between the farmer characters and the distributors. After I read this thread, I went in game and found several other characters that were not mentioned in this thread. CCP certainly has more capability to track down ISK sellers.
While you are correct that CCP cannot completely eliminate ISK selling, that is a poor excuse to fail to take action when its clear that EULA violations are occuring. While there is not evidence to convict someone in a court of law, there certainly enough reasonable evidence to warrant action in a MMOG. CCP may not be able to eliminate ISK selling, but they could certainly do more to reduce it.
I agree on stronger penalties for ISK purchasers, including temp/perma bans. By attacking buyers AND sellers more aggressively, CCP can reduce this problem down from its current epidemic level.
Originally by: Oveur
Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.13 01:10:00 -
[317]
My Tri pal, you and I agree
Yet people challenge how that is 'proof' that guys are isk farmers.
Pray tell, how the same account being 1 month old gets 1 billion isk to buy 2 ammo if he is not an isk farmer or just LOVES to burn RL cash on GTCs?
I really give up, the fanboys don't.
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Kay Brack
Gallente Superior Unified Ruling Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.13 04:10:00 -
[318]
Read the entire thread and am quite amazed by the scope of this. Like the fellow from Veto though i think many of you folks are tiptoeing around the GTC issues.
Little hard to get wound up over isk farmers when GTC provide the same thing except it has a stamp of approval.
Anyhow awesome investigation by the op and the many other contributors following up on the contract data.
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Pango Ein
Topps Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.13 05:05:00 -
[319]
Today's disposable alt/ISK Farmer/Bagman/Node is "go match". She has take over the task of selling Drone, Mechanic, and Electronics Skill books to members of "datae's corp" for 50-500M ISK each. It seems that hves and "Don cat" have retired, I guess they reached their quota after 6 days.
"go match" has formed a new corp called Dhakane [DHAK] and is rapidly adding new members all of which are coming from "datae's corp". I guess they didn't like the multiple wardecs datae's corp has received.
For those not paying attention, search in game for the player "go match", "hves" or "Don Cat" and press the Show Contracts button on their Character Info Page. They are auctioning basic skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers.
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Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.13 10:47:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Pango Ein Today's disposable alt/ISK Farmer/Bagman/Node is "go match". She has take over the task of selling Drone, Mechanic, and Electronics Skill books to members of "datae's corp" for 50-500M ISK each. It seems that hves and "Don cat" have retired, I guess they reached their quota after 6 days.
"go match" has formed a new corp called Dhakane [DHAK] and is rapidly adding new members all of which are coming from "datae's corp". I guess they didn't like the multiple wardecs datae's corp has received.
For those not paying attention, search in game for the player "go match", "hves" or "Don Cat" and press the Show Contracts button on their Character Info Page. They are auctioning basic skill books for 100-400M Isk each and makes 5-10B Isk per day. And all the buyers are repeat buyers.
So now they're not just breaking the ISK selling rule, but the wardec dodiing rule too. How many rules does one have to break to get thrown out of EVE anyhow? ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map |
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.13 14:00:00 -
[321]
No amount of rules will get these guys banned. That much is plainly obvious.
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The Chamberlain
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Posted - 2007.11.13 14:39:00 -
[322]
So, where are they? What systems? And in game, can we do anything to stop them?
The Chamberlain
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Aypse
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.13 15:04:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Pango Ein It seems that hves and "Don cat" have retired, I guess they reached their quota after 6 days.
I will be an optimist and assume that CCP has banned this account. Hopefully CCP is using the leads supplied by the contract system to take action against the farmers/distributors that contributed to Don Cat's Eula violation as well.
Score a point(hopefully) for the good guys. Keep up the good work.
Originally by: Oveur
Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.13 15:52:00 -
[324]
Originally by: The Chamberlain So, where are they? What systems? And in game, can we do anything to stop them?
The Chamberlain
Venal is infested. Stain is infested.
Lowsec empire is infested by pirates, but not enough to counter mission running isk farmers oddly enough.
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Pango Ein
Topps Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.13 17:00:00 -
[325]
The ISK farming operation mentioned many times above has spawned another corp "Ali storehouse" [ALI S] for members of datae's corp to flee to. They are now spread out into at least three corps; datae's corp, Dhakane, and Ali storehouse.
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Eshezo
Old Buggers
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Posted - 2007.11.13 19:29:00 -
[326]
Bump, because it's important and it needs to be kept going, WE WILL GET THEM AND FINISH THE ISK TRADING.
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SEN 5243
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Posted - 2007.11.13 20:46:00 -
[327]
Edited by: SEN 5243 on 13/11/2007 20:49:04 bump ccp pls make it easier for us to kill cloaking ravens npcing in 0.0 and do something about the noobcorp haulers in lowsec
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Zavernus Hamarabi
Caldari High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.13 21:27:00 -
[328]
I think perhaps a flagging system should be implemented. If enough players flag a player or a corp for isk farming, it does nothing but flags that player or corp to ccp for them to take a look at that particular entity. Flagging them would do nothing but create an eyebrow raiser for ccp.
CCP, a request: Remove rigs Thank you, Zav |
Mjnari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2007.11.14 06:35:00 -
[329]
Edited by: Mjnari on 14/11/2007 06:35:34
Originally by: SEN 5243 ... and do something about the noobcorp haulers in lowsec
That'd be easy - just remove the sec hit for attacking noob corp players in lowsec.
Honestly, a) create your own player corp OR b) join a player corp.
It's not like there's any legitimate reason for someone to stay in a noob corp for an extended period of time.
(And so what if scan/cargo alts can get whacked without penalty -- use a main/indy-corp alt)
------------------------ Minmatar, It should be like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair shooting an Uzi. |
MorbidPenguin
Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.11.14 07:43:00 -
[330]
One small thing everyone can do is add Voogru's signature to their signature. Pretty soon, it'll be all over the forums and CCP is going to have to take action - they can't avoid the truth.
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KOOLLAYDTAC
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Posted - 2007.11.14 08:22:00 -
[331]
Question for those out to get isk farmers. Who cares? I mean seriously. I could see the issue on if they are spamming because that's just annoying as hell and they need to be shot, but selling ingame currency is not a new thing to MMO's. I mean even though I never bought or sold it myself it really doesn't bother me if someone else is. It's not like it is a global impact on anyones gameplay most importantly of all not mine and you ladies don't get paid to be the Eve Police. IMO The devs should deal with it minus the army of ass geniuses trying to play detective. My advice would be to just relax and enjoy the game and not get worked up over what other people are doing. Remember nobody likes that idiot noisy neighbor that spends to much time in everyone elses business and not enough time tending to their own. That's just my take on it though. Have a nice day and hope you all try to relax and enjoy the game some.
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YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.11.14 12:50:00 -
[332]
Originally by: KOOLLAYDTAC It's not like it is a global impact on anyones gameplay most importantly of all not mine...
Not only are you short sighted but also outright wrong!
I suggest you read the latest quarterly economic report on Eve. Especially the passages about the dramatic increase of available currency in game and its possible consequences to New Edens economy.
Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |
Pango Ein
Topps Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.15 06:18:00 -
[333]
"go match" continues to the be ISK Farmer bagman/node however on a reduced scale. All her customers seem to be 2 months old or younger. None of the older ISK farmers seem to log on anymore. I wounder what could have happened to them?
Currently they seem to think being in a corp makes them safer, however they seem to make a new corp every day. It started with "Datae's corp" then they moved to Dhakane then "Ali storehouse" then "ceo me Corp" and finally today they have moved into "As Soon Corp" [AS SO].
I guess I could petition this as an exploit:
"Dear GM, The members(ISK FARMERS) of As Soon Corp(ISK FARMER CORP) are exploiting the corporation creation to avoid a war dec on their original corp Datae's Corp(ISK FARMER CORP). They(ISK FARMERS) have gone from Datae's Corp(ISK FARMER CORP) to Dhakane(ISK FARMER CORP) to Ali storehouse(ISK FARMER CORP) to ceo me Corp(ISK FARMER CORP) to As Soon Corp(ISK FARMER CORP). By the way did I mention they were ISK Farmers, you can look up the contracts for hves or go match and see them all buying drone skillbooks for 200M ISK each."
The response from the GM would probably be "Your petition is denied (check one) (x) The CEO of all the corps are different so it is ok. (x) We are sorry you got scammed but it is not against the rules. (x) There is nothing showing this in our logs. (x) Buying ISK is bad, Mkay?"
Better yet I will ask the two corps that have wardec them to petition them.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.15 13:30:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Pango Ein "go match" continues to the be ISK Farmer bagman/node however on a reduced scale. All her customers seem to be 2 months old or younger. None of the older ISK farmers seem to log on anymore. I wounder what could have happened to them?
Currently they seem to think being in a corp makes them safer, however they seem to make a new corp every day. It started with "Datae's corp" then they moved to Dhakane then "Ali storehouse" then "ceo me Corp" and finally today they have moved into "As Soon Corp" [AS SO].
I guess I could petition this as an exploit:
"Dear GM, The members(ISK FARMERS) of As Soon Corp(ISK FARMER CORP) are exploiting the corporation creation to avoid a war dec on their original corp Datae's Corp(ISK FARMER CORP). They(ISK FARMERS) have gone from Datae's Corp(ISK FARMER CORP) to Dhakane(ISK FARMER CORP) to Ali storehouse(ISK FARMER CORP) to ceo me Corp(ISK FARMER CORP) to As Soon Corp(ISK FARMER CORP). By the way did I mention they were ISK Farmers, you can look up the contracts for hves or go match and see them all buying drone skillbooks for 200M ISK each."
The response from the GM would probably be "Your petition is denied (check one) (x) The CEO of all the corps are different so it is ok. (x) We are sorry you got scammed but it is not against the rules. (x) There is nothing showing this in our logs. (x) Buying ISK is bad, Mkay?"
Better yet I will ask the two corps that have wardec them to petition them.
I am watching this so keep me posted.
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Cruthensis
Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.11.15 13:57:00 -
[335]
Originally by: KOOLLAYDTAC I never bought or sold it myself it really doesn't bother me if someone else is.
So glad to have you onside. If everyone had your attitude Eve would be a much better place. Oh wai... DIAF
1. Buy Vexor 2. Fit for Gank 3. Suicide ISK farmer 4. Grind sec 5. see 1. |
Pango Ein
Topps Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.16 05:58:00 -
[336]
All the ISK Farmers have moved into one of two corps, "As Soon Corp" with 48 members and "Sadlys" with 35 members. The contracts have dried up as I assume they are now trading internally in their corps.
I have also found that rolling through series of new corps made with trial accounts/alts seems to be a valid method of avoiding wardecs. Datae's Corp -> Dhakane, Ali storehouse, ceo me Corp -> As Soon Corp and Sadly.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.11.18 15:24:00 -
[337]
do you guys really find it fun hunting macros ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
Stakhanov
The Good Fellas
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Posted - 2007.11.18 15:54:00 -
[338]
Barely. But hey , it's funnier than ratting / mining or so many other activities thousands of people spend their days on.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.11.18 16:12:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Pango Ein All the ISK Farmers have moved into one of two corps, "As Soon Corp" with 48 members and "Sadlys" with 35 members. The contracts have dried up as I assume they are now trading internally in their corps.
I have also found that rolling through series of new corps made with trial accounts/alts seems to be a valid method of avoiding wardecs. Datae's Corp -> Dhakane, Ali storehouse, ceo me Corp -> As Soon Corp and Sadly.
Those corps have the same describtion which indicates that they are corp jumping as you said. A petition should get them a ban.
Ship lovers click here |
Dramaan
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Posted - 2007.11.18 16:17:00 -
[340]
Why shod ccp concentrate on the isk farmers when is the isk buyers who are the problem? I want to find more isk buyer banded the now, they give reason to isk farmer and sellers to live.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2007.11.18 16:20:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Dramaan Why shod ccp concentrate on the isk farmers when is the isk buyers who are the problem? I want to find more isk buyer banded the now, they give reason to isk farmer and sellers to live.
Sellers are easier to find than buyers.
Ship lovers click here |
Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2007.11.18 16:23:00 -
[342]
Originally by: KOOLLAYDTAC Question for those out to get isk farmers. Who cares? I mean seriously
CCP claim to care.
Here is just one of the many threads filled with people that do care.
I hope this helps you.
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- Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345 |
Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.26 02:57:00 -
[343]
o.O Isk laundering 4t ignore
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Freya Runestone
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.11.26 04:58:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Originally by: Dramaan Why shod ccp concentrate on the isk farmers when is the isk buyers who are the problem? I want to find more isk buyer banded the now, they give reason to isk farmer and sellers to live.
Sellers are easier to find than buyers.
sellers don't care if they get banned. they'll start up a new account the next day. buyers actually care about the time they have invested in skill training and other things like that. If you want to end it you need to target the buyers. Just scare them enough so they won't buy isk anymore for fear of getting banned.
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Kessiaan
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Posted - 2007.11.26 05:41:00 -
[345]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 26/11/2007 05:44:42 I'll add my two ISK worth..
Change corp rules so you can't quit for seven days after you join. Alternately, if you do quit a corp before seven days are up, you remain a valid war target for the remaining time.
As 'real' players tend to stay in corps for a while this shouldn't really affect legit players much, if it all. Farmers that constantly jump corps would be ass-out though, which is the point.
Also NPC corps should be undesirable for people who've been playing for longer than 3 months or so. How this could be done without gimping legit players is a bit beyond me atm though.
A few random ideas though..
1) NPC corp players can't create or accept any contracts worth more than 5m ISK 2) NPC corp players are limited to 10m ISK per day in wallet donations. ----- My in Eve Profile |
Snowcrash Winterheart2
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.26 09:09:00 -
[346]
Well, it's tricky.
Contract for 1 rocket @ 100mil ISK. Yep, it could be an ISK farmer laundering the money or... it could be one of us trying to screw the macroers up and grief them at the same time. I'd happily alleviate them of their ISK if I could figure out the macro trigger :) Wouldn't any of you do the same? :)
I don't think the GM's can do all that much as to realistically build up a picture of the ISK farming rings you'd need raw access to the DB(s) to do SELECT's against, mate it up with IP addresses. And correct me if I'm wrong but whilst the GM's have tools they don't have raw access to the DB in the same way a dev does.
One thing CCP should consider, if they don't already, is to go through the list of anonymous proxies that are on-line and ban them. It's step 1 in nailing the guys, make them reveal their own IP (for banning) rather than bounce off a proxy.
----- Four paws... four sets of claws. |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.11.27 01:37:00 -
[347]
The character the eggs has an interesting contract history. New node?
---- WSSH |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.11.27 01:56:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Freya Runestone
Freelancing is also a style of play that a lot of people like. and currently the only way to do that is the starter corps, if you create your own corp you'll get wardecced very fast, not because you did anything bad. just because people CAN do it, and you CAN'T stop it.
Hasn't been my experience. I think this is an unfounded assumption and the only reason people cling to the NPC corps. Fear of things they imagine might happen.
The game needs to evolve. NPC corps delay that. Is it worth it keeping that safety blanket when it protects these obvious isk sellers as well?
---- WSSH |
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