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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.24 19:06:00 -
[361]
After further examination of the Golem i really have to ask you:
Why does the Golem do less DPS than its T1 counterpart missing a lowslot and 2 turret hardpoints?
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Janus Ovellian
Minmatar Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.10.24 19:46:00 -
[362]
In the devblog it lists the broadsword bonus as 5% shield resistances per level of Min Cruiser, and on sisi the description says 'armor'.
Also, all of the heavy interdictor ships seem to have 75% and 50% resist bonuses to race resists rather than the listed 50% and 25%. Don't know which is correct, although I hope its the version on sisi. More resists are always nice. :)
Interesting times await... |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.24 19:50:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Repeating it every second post will not make it true.
Marauders have very little interest for missions runners.
I think the marauders are more intended for ratting and exploration than missioning.
I think we have a winner!
You have given me a reason to train for them, if they have enough grid (I was thinking to do that with teh Cov Ops BS, but probably the marauders work better). .
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Re'Lon
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Posted - 2007.10.24 19:56:00 -
[364]
All the Golem needs to fix most of the complaints is to increase the Missile speed bonus to 20 or 25%. That way you could still use Torps, and cruise missiles would out run defenders.
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Sheamis Kast
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Posted - 2007.10.24 21:30:00 -
[365]
Um...this has been said already but, what the hell? The Paladin is horrible. Without the cap use bonus it has the same cap use and (without the cap stats listed I can only assume) the same cap as the Apoc, while the Kronos gets to do the damage of 8 hybrids for half the cap consumption.
How about a damage bonus? Tracking is nice but does not replace a damage bonus at all. Aren't these ships supposed to be for mission running? If so, what is the purpose of the webber bonus? Most NPCs don't come into web range and I am not exactly going to be chasing them down in a battleship. Seriously this ship does less damage with pulses and scorch then the Kronos does with rails.
Until or unless you fix lasers this ships needs the laser cap use bonus, no one likes it but there is no other way since you can't fit it with autocannons like you can with the Abaddon. The Cap capacity bonus does not even make up the difference for the lack of cap use bonus, drop that and give us the cap use.
The Tracking and the web bonus are redundant, plus lasers alreay have good tracking so if you really want to keep the random ewar bonus drop the tracking and give us a damage or rate of fire bonus. The Kronos gets a bigger drone bay and a damage bonus, at least give us one boost to damage.
The rep amount bonus is a gallente bonus give the paladin a resistance bonus.
Proposed bonuses 10% reduction in laser capacitor need per Amarr BS level 5% bonus to large energy turret ROF per Amarr BS level 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level 5% bonus to armor resistances per Marauder level
This would atleast make the ship viable compared to the Kronos or Vargur
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Leya Marcsson
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Posted - 2007.10.24 22:22:00 -
[366]
Edited by: Leya Marcsson on 24/10/2007 22:25:16 Edited by: Leya Marcsson on 24/10/2007 22:24:55 Please give the Widow 20% bonus to ECM effectiveness per Black Ops level, like the Recons & EW Frigs have. She really need that to be good in ECM. She will likly run 6 Jammers in the Mids only leaving place for a Sensor Booster and a ECCM. 4 low Slots are to less to make a tank in case the jammer fail, especily cause you'll need 1 SDA II even with 20% bonus.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.10.24 22:29:00 -
[367]
Wouldn't a Golem with the new torps, neutralizers, and a hitpoint tank pretty much make mincemeat of a Kronos, or indeed any close range combat ship? In fact once the changes go through the same applies to the Raven, that kind of damage from 30km seems pretty over-powered.
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 23:06:00 -
[368]
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 24/10/2007 23:08:20
Originally by: Sheamis Kast
Until or unless you fix lasers this ships needs the laser cap use bonus, no one likes it but there is no other way since you can't fit it with autocannons like you can with the Abaddon. The Cap capacity bonus does not even make up the difference for the lack of cap use bonus, drop that and give us the cap use.
eh how about no...the ship with its 4 turrets needs exactly the same cap for guns as a regular apoc with skill at level 5...cap is the one area where the apoc does not have any problems at all. so no this ship does not need that crappy -10% capuse reduction bonus it already has this built in due to using half the turrets. also note that the 5% cap capacity bonus is actually pretty good for missions as it allows for easier use of dual repper tanks...just like it does on the normal apoc.
you are correct about the uselessness of the webbing bonus and the not all that much needed tracking bonus but please stay away from the cap bonuses if you dont understand how they work.
a much better paladin would look like this for example: +5% cap capacity (stays in place) +5% laser damage (to actually give a reason to use this ship instead of the abaddon) +7.5% armor repair amount (it seems ccp has decided to throw the racial differences for tanking bonuses away and repair amount should actually be better for missions...could still put 5% resists in here though) +7.5% laser tracking (or 20% webifier range if you really have to go for some web bonus make it a range bonus able to reach 20km at lvl5 so its actually somewhat usefull)
also increase the dronebay but keep the the bandwidth the same....so you can have some spares and dont need to switch out for each mission.
edit: also....what makes you think that "you can't fit it with autocannons like you can with the Abaddon."?
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Mr Filth
x13
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Posted - 2007.10.24 23:32:00 -
[369]
agility bonus to a cloaked Dominix, youre kidding right ?
repair or tracking bonus plz :)
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Sylper Illysten
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Posted - 2007.10.25 00:48:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Mack Dorgeans By the way, despite all the whines and complaints in this thread, a T2 Raven or Mega, or whatever is going to be in high demand, and you can expect them to cost quite a bit more than a faction battleship. I see CNRs all over the place these days, and I think the Golem will be preferred by mission runners even if the DPS is similar. For one thing, pilots will save on ammo costs. For another, the large cargo bay and tractor bonus will make cleaning up after a mission easier without having to change ships. If the T2s tank better than T1/faction, mission runners (and mission isk farmers -- they're becoming more and more common it appears) are going to be all over the Marauders.
Well, maybe not the Amarr, but then what else is new?
You haven't factored in defenders in the equation for the Golem DPS. If you fire 4 cruise missiles in a volley in a majority of level 4 missions (and a number of level 3's) you will be lucky if one cruise hits the target. Compare that to a volley of 6 or 7 cruise missiles with a ROF bonus and the Golem simply isn't competative. This doesn't even look at the proposed torp changes which will probably see them dropped by mission runners and ignores the power grid problems the Golem is going to have to even fit 4 seige launchers.
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Sylper Illysten
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Posted - 2007.10.25 00:53:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Wouldn't a Golem with the new torps, neutralizers, and a hitpoint tank pretty much make mincemeat of a Kronos, or indeed any close range combat ship? In fact once the changes go through the same applies to the Raven, that kind of damage from 30km seems pretty over-powered.
the problem is the Golem like all Caldari ships is heavy and slow, so anything else should be able to stay outisde the 30km radius and rip it apart.
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.25 01:58:00 -
[372]
Edited by: Cailais on 25/10/2007 01:58:34 The sentinel has an effective range of up to 18km with tech 2 neutralizers and can sustain 3 of them when optimized for capacitor recharge. This makes the Sentinel a serious threat even to battleships. - CCP Fendahl
Ive just tested about 10 sentis on sisi Fendahl, and I can assure you its not even remotely threatening to a Battleship, or well anything really. I did get insta popped by a maelstrom if that's what you mean??
Any Curse pilots wondering what the Sentinel is like, well its just like a curse, except its like flying one on aphetamines. Managing neuts, cap and drones I imagine is roughly equivalent to juggling jelly on a fast roller coaster.
Most useful fit; Drone Augs, a damp, sensor booster, cloak. Spam a few T2 Lights and run like billyo if someone looks at you funny.
Dies to; Anything with a web fitted.
Great fun mind you, market value? Hmm maybe 2mil isk if you fancy a laugh for 30 mins.
C.
- sig designer - eve mail
Low Sec Idea |
Myra2007
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Posted - 2007.10.25 03:25:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne eh how about no...the ship with its 4 turrets needs exactly the same cap for guns as a regular apoc with skill at level 5...cap is the one area where the apoc does not have any problems at all.
Mhhh. I'd agree that it doesn't particularly need it. But as it stands the kronos saves about 40% gun capuse against the thron. So i do think it is very well a problem of balance.
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
edit: also....what makes you think that "you can't fit it with autocannons like you can with the Abaddon."?
I can't speak for him but probably the fact that the 100% dmg bonus on the paladin will not apply to projectiles. Thus you would end up with 4 unbonused projectiles against 8 unbonused projectiles on apoc. Thus you technically *can* fit them - but it sure as hell is a bad idea.
Well, i really ask myself if we will ever see a paladin on tq. Who will invent this crap? And who will buy it? But hey our t1 ammo is indefinite. I think that balances it very well.
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Reiisha
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.10.25 03:58:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Fendahl
Paladin
* Hull: Apocalypse / Carthum Conglomerate * Slots: 7/4/7, 4 turrets * Fitting: 500tf, 13,500mw * Drones: 75Mbit/s bandwidth, 75m3 dronebay * Sensors: 12pt radar, 10 target locks * Propulsion: 125m/s, 110,000,000kg * Tech II resistance bonus: 25% explosive, 12.5% kinetic
Bonuses:
* 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level * 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Amarr BS level * 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level * 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level * Role bonus: 100% bonus to large energy turret damage * Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams
When using -90% webifiers, the stasis webifier velocity factor bonus increases the velocity factor penalty up to -99%, at which point a single webifier is as effective as two webifiers mounted on a standard ship. This means that the Paladin can easily hit any ship within web range, once the transversal velocity slows down.
Thanks for giving us a ship that costs 10 times as much as the Abaddon and sucks about the same as an Apocalypse....
The webber bonus is completely and utterly useless. I'm pretty sure that most people use drones to kill frigs and fast cruisers rather than fit a webber. 5 light or medium drones make short work of anything that comes under the optimal turret tracking range, and the 4 medslots can better be used on cap rechargers or afterburners... These are mission ships, not frigate tacklers.
The armor rep bonus is also bogus, really. While nice, it's a Gallente bonus, not an Amarr one. Personally i'd rather see a +5% to all resists per level.
The tracking also comes in a strange place. Lasers already have pretty decent tracking, they just do no damage at all. A tracking bonus doesnt change the fact that lasers do 0 damage to anything but bloods or sanshas. Replace it with either a 5% ROF or damage per level bonus. Even optimal range would be better.
But i guess if your mission is to eradicate Amarr ships from the game, well, mission achieved. Lets see when the nerfs hit the Abaddon and we're left with having to fit projectile weapons on Amarr ships to actually do any damage at all.
EVE History Wiki
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Xeron Silverblade
Esthar Industries Tres Viri
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Posted - 2007.10.25 04:02:00 -
[375]
while talking about pricing here:
will there be a change to inventions so these ships (especially the t2 bs) will be affordable? or will the pure manufacturing costs remain at approx. 1b (as they are with current chances of invention)?
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Randice
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Posted - 2007.10.25 05:26:00 -
[376]
Releasing 16 ships in one patch isn't that a bit too much??? The game is patched twice a year in two-year-time you will have 64 new ships...man...I am not surprised none of my friends wants to play this game. I hope the T2 ships are VERY VERY rare (like T2 rigs).
Here's an idea....How about working on helping small corps started. Recruitment centers for corps to place an ad in? (include that into new player experience?!))
$^#@^$@^ Who's idea was it to include 'heat' into the game...I still hate it.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.25 06:13:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Mack Dorgeans By the way, despite all the whines and complaints in this thread, a T2 Raven or Mega, or whatever is going to be in high demand, and you can expect them to cost quite a bit more than a faction battleship. I see CNRs all over the place these days, and I think the Golem will be preferred by mission runners even if the DPS is similar. For one thing, pilots will save on ammo costs. For another, the large cargo bay and tractor bonus will make cleaning up after a mission easier without having to change ships. If the T2s tank better than T1/faction, mission runners (and mission isk farmers -- they're becoming more and more common it appears) are going to be all over the Marauders.
Well, maybe not the Amarr, but then what else is new?
Golem will not be preferred by missionrunners with brain. Well at least not for running missions. Wealthier missionrunners who have the skills to fly one will propably get one as salvage/looting ship instead of destroyer or interdictor for those rare missions where it's worth to loot or salvage.
As pointed out several times before me it's sub standard vs CNR. Defenders are not THAT huge issue, as I understand it defender launch by NPC's is propablity based per missile launched so both CNR and Golem will lose roughly equal amount of dps to defenders but talk about using less ammo being serious advantage is questionable. Ammo cost vs mission income is not something over what people who actually use level 4 missions as their main income would be too worried about. If you do the math you will see, that ability to run missions approx 15% faster in CNR vs Golem will outweight approx 30% ammo savings isk/h wise.
Point where Golem fails as mission running ship vs CNR is the usual question mission runners who care about effectivity have to ask themselves: How many seconds does it take to kill that ship over there ?
It will be popular nevertheless. It's very good for PvP and reasonable for ratting. Also people who are casual or not caring about effectivity that mutch might get one for missions. It's just not going to be 'the best' and thus people who care about effectivity in missions will go for CNR over that one.
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ShurNui
Minmatar Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.10.25 06:28:00 -
[378]
what is this thing about drones bandwith SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] |
Pliauga
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Posted - 2007.10.25 06:37:00 -
[379]
Edited by: Pliauga on 25/10/2007 06:37:46 Edited by: Pliauga on 25/10/2007 06:37:17 Is any dev gonna answer this thread? Seriously, come on. There have been some seriously good propositions on this thread. It would be nice to know what the devs think about them.
P.s. Bandwith is a new limitation to using drones.
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Itcharo Wu
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.25 07:25:00 -
[380]
I dont understand all the fuss about the golem.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always believed that the launch of defender missiles from rats is chanced based. That is, when a rat has a chance of like 25%, on average every 4th missile you launch will be destroyed.
So regardless whether you have 4, 6 or 7 launchers on your ship, your damage will be reduced by one quarter.
Of course, random is a ***** and 2 destroyed missiles out of 4 is a reduction of 50% dps but at the same time, the chance that all 4 missiles get through is higher than that all 7 missiles from a CNR do.
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Dakisha
Mining Bytes Inc. D-L
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Posted - 2007.10.25 09:03:00 -
[381]
My 2c on the Widow.
Nice, but it really needs a 15% or 20% ECM bonus per level. Given the insane ammt of money we'll be required to put in to it and the typically low insurance offered on T2 ships - to say it can only jam as well as a Blackbird and worse than a Kitsune is, imho - silly.
It has to sacrifice a majority of its tank in order to actually field ECM and as such; surely its tank is the ECM itself.
I'd even settle for 12.5% per lvl or 15% per lvl. 10% is underpowered for such an expensive beast, especially given a cruiser is capable of such already.
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BlueCheese Guy
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Posted - 2007.10.25 09:25:00 -
[382]
I would agree with Dakisha regarding the Widow. Since the ECM class was nerferd awhile ago, I have not really put much effort into using Scorps. When I heard about the Black Ops featuring a T2 Scorp my hopes were that I would once again be fielding a strong alternative fleet support ship that uses old skills which had alot of SP investment. I think the suggestion of lowering tank and increasing ECM bonus to 12 or 15 percent is good.
However, I guess for the more mean players out there, it could make a very good piwat ship. Cloaking and sneaking up on people then webbing, jamming and scrambling could be fun.
BlueCheese Guy
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.25 09:45:00 -
[383]
Defender missiles is chance based PERS MISSILE fired on the rat ship. So the net resutl of defenders flyign wil be HALF of current.
Anyone speakign that defenders will cripple the golem ahs no idea hwo game works.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.25 09:50:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Defender missiles is chance based PERS MISSILE fired on the rat ship. So the net resutl of defenders flyign wil be HALF of current.
Anyone speakign that defenders will cripple the golem ahs no idea hwo game works.
Defenders are minor issue. Most of the ranting come from the fact that CNR does more damage, thus runs missions faster, than Golem. Both ships will lose equal amount of dps to defenders.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.25 10:39:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Defender missiles is chance based PERS MISSILE fired on the rat ship. So the net resutl of defenders flyign wil be HALF of current.
Anyone speakign that defenders will cripple the golem ahs no idea hwo game works.
Defenders are minor issue. Most of the ranting come from the fact that CNR does more damage, thus runs missions faster, than Golem. Both ships will lose equal amount of dps to defenders.
remembers there is more PVE than lvl 4 missions. There are complexes and level 5 that are very hard for a signle raen to tank.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
drakenn
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Posted - 2007.10.25 10:55:00 -
[386]
The new ships look sound but when u consider there tech 2 they look very under powered, what are we fitting them with civilian kit. Come on these are top of the line just look at say the maelstrom powergrid output 21000mw compered to the vargur 7,900mw its only 4 guns less, great ships till u try fitting them even the CPU looks poor 640 to 625 anyone taking the time over these ships might find there next to useless because of the fitting, not looked them all are they the same.
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GeneralKool
Cold Blooded Killers
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Posted - 2007.10.25 11:53:00 -
[387]
Originally by: drakenn The new ships look sound but when u consider there tech 2 they look very under powered, what are we fitting them with civilian kit. Come on these are top of the line just look at say the maelstrom powergrid output 21000mw compered to the vargur 7,900mw its only 4 guns less, great ships till u try fitting them even the CPU looks poor 640 to 625 anyone taking the time over these ships might find there next to useless because of the fitting, not looked them all are they the same.
These ships arent supposed to be the pwnmobile i-win button just stick to their original role. |
d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.25 11:54:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
remembers there is more PVE than lvl 4 missions. There are complexes and level 5 that are very hard for a signle raen to tank.
tanking complexes (in deep space) in a 1bil slow as hell bs is suicide. also you wont get the sig reduction which is huge if you field a af/hac to tank. and also you wont tank many lvl 5's in a golem. most of them require a pasive tank thanks to all those energy neut sentries..
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Sheamis Kast
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Posted - 2007.10.25 12:47:00 -
[389]
Edited by: Sheamis Kast on 25/10/2007 12:48:13
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
eh how about no...the ship with its 4 turrets needs exactly the same cap for guns as a regular apoc with skill at level 5...cap is the one area where the apoc does not have any problems at all. so no this ship does not need that crappy -10% capuse reduction bonus it already has this built in due to using half the turrets. also note that the 5% cap capacity bonus is actually pretty good for missions as it allows for easier use of dual repper tanks...just like it does on the normal apoc.
you are correct about the uselessness of the webbing bonus and the not all that much needed tracking bonus but please stay away from the cap bonuses if you dont understand how they work.
Wow, way to keep it proffesional. I suggested the cap use bonus over the cap size bonus because it saves you more cap. You will have more cap to run your tank with the laser cap use bonus then the bonus to cap size. So might I suggest doing some research before you tell people they don't know what they are talking about.
Cap use on four Mega Pulse IIs: 21.2 cap per second With -50% cap use: 10.6 cap per second Bonus cap: 10.6 Cap per Second
Native Cap regen on an Apocalypse with all skills to V except Amarr BS: 20.8 Cap per second Native Cap regen on an Apocalypse with all skills to V including Amarr BS: 26 Cap per second Bonus Cap: 5.2 Cap per Second
As you should be able to see you get nearly twice as much bonus cap with the laser cap use bonus then you do with the bonus to cap size. So you see I do understand how these things work I assumed others would to, my mistake I guess.
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne also....what makes you think that "you can't fit it with autocannons like you can with the Abaddon."?
You are right, you can mount autocannons. Why didn't I think that 4 autocannons were a good replacement for an effective 8 lasers? Hmm...
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The Economist
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Posted - 2007.10.25 13:31:00 -
[390]
Had a little play around on sisi and it seems to me that the Paladin needs more PG and CPU (unless it was designed with 5% cpu implants, pg rigs and co-processors in mind ), and the Redeemer badly needs more CPU.
Also the phobos could do with a little more cpu too.
Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn |
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