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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Matt G
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.15 22:03:00 -
[1]
No drone skills?! EPIC FAIL!!! Why do all of the characters start with the exact same skills, except for the faction frigate and gunnery skills? The Gallente are the drone kings, what's with this? We might as well be able to choose what faction cruiser we want and the types of weapons we wanna use.
Any thoughts?
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Krathos Morpheus
Gallente Legion Infernal Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.15 22:21:00 -
[2]
Looks like race matters no more. This and every char with the same attributes makes the races and bloodlines pointless.
EVE Knowledge |
Matt G
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.15 22:28:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Matt G on 15/02/2009 22:28:43 Yep. Let's just get portraits, how's that sound? BOO YAH! Heck, let us upload our own pics! FOR FREE!
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CCP Casqade
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:17:00 -
[4]
Quote: No drone skills?! EPIC FAIL!!! Why do all of the characters start with the exact same skills, except for the faction frigate and gunnery skills?
I don't believe that skills to a new player mean much at all. I believe it makes more sense for the new player to choose what they like to do and then reward the player with skills in that field or guide them how to become better, rather than giving them a bit of everything. The Imicus is the only frigate that has a drone bonus (Drone range, which is not the most useful bonus for a new player) and all races have frigates that are capable of fielding drones.
What do you think? Can you please explain why you this is a bad idea?
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: CCP Casqade The Imicus is the only frigate that has a drone bonus (Drone range, which is not the most useful bonus for a new player) and all races have frigates that are capable of fielding drones.
I agree, the Imicus is in fact the worst ship. And to go along with this theme of it being horrible, the Helios should be returned to its former glory.
PS. I love my 500K SP in Drones which I never use.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Matt G
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: CCP Casqade
Quote: No drone skills?! EPIC FAIL!!! Why do all of the characters start with the exact same skills, except for the faction frigate and gunnery skills?
I don't believe that skills to a new player mean much at all. I believe it makes more sense for the new player to choose what they like to do and then reward the player with skills in that field or guide them how to become better, rather than giving them a bit of everything. The Imicus is the only frigate that has a drone bonus (Drone range, which is not the most useful bonus for a new player) and all races have frigates that are capable of fielding drones.
What do you think? Can you please explain why you this is a bad idea?
CCP Casquade, okay, I kind of see your point there. I planned on starting 100% over when the patch comes out, except my isk, and making a more specialized character. My point, tho, is that the Gallente are no longer the "DRONE KINGS!". My point is, each race started with specialized skills to help them. Gallente had drones, Caldari had missile skills, Minmatar...didn't care about them cause they fly buckets of bolts so IDK, and same with Amarr. Anybody can now start with any character, in a matter of hours have Gallente Frig to where Gallente start now, and work on drone skills. My point to this is that there are no superior races anymore because everything is now evened out amongst them all. I always started Gallente because of the fact I could use drones right off the bat, 5 of them. Now, I just started a Caldari character, got my +3's, training the learning skills to 3, Drones to 3 and Gallente Frigate to 3. No point in the races or bloodlines now because I can just spend a few hours and be whatever I want. They are just pictures now.
**Note: Most other ideas are awesome, but this one is not. You guys have done a great job so far.**
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:41:00 -
[7]
So how is that different from the past? I started as a Gallente character, and almost immediatly started training into Caldari ships and missiles.
The only difference is I had a ton of skills from my character that are useless and I was never gonna use.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Matt G
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:44:00 -
[8]
Okay, WHY OH WHY, if I'm Gallente and NEVER going to use Missiles, do I start with fricken Missile skills?!
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:45:00 -
[9]
Some Gallente ships have missile launchers on them?
I think you're missing an integral fact here. The race you start off in Eve has no bearing on what ships you fly.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Matt G
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:49:00 -
[10]
I'm not missing that point. No, Gallente don't use missile ships, they use drone boats (dominix) and hybrid weapons. The only time I actually used a missile with my gallente character was when I jumped in a strategic cruiser and found I had 1 slot. This is why I started a caldari character because I don't have to worry about starting with drones on Gallente cause I don't. Use to start with Drones 5, and 3 other skills in drones. Now, that's gone out the window. Maybe it was too easy for noobs to get up and going, but hey, no drone skills makes it much easier cause they can choose what they wanna do. See my point? It doesn't matter what race you start off with anymore, they are all the same except the name and the look. Why are there 4 races now?
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:57:00 -
[11]
Gallente ships that have at least one missile launcher:
Tristan Enyo Nemesis Hyperion Megathron Celestis Ares Eris Arazu Lachesis
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Matt G
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:02:00 -
[12]
So I stand corrected about the missile points, but there's only 1.
You are missing my point tho! I'll spell it nice and clear.
GALLENTE ARE NO LONGER DRONE KINGS. ANYBODY CAN BE A DRONE KING IN A MATTER OF HOURS. GALLENTE ARE NOW POINTLESS.
Caps Lock was not to be yelling, but to emphasize my fricken point because nobody is understanding. I can now start off with any character and train the drone skills. So with that being said, Gallente are now the same as Amarr, Caldari and Minmatar because they all have the SAME starting skills.
What is the point now in having separate races?
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Shirley Serious
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Matt G What is the point now in having separate races?
roleplay.
Different character portrait options.
Yes. Yes, I am. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:09:00 -
[14]
Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 16/02/2009 00:09:19 I'll try this once more, since you only seem to be listening to what you want to hear.
Starting off with 500K and Drones V hardly makes anyone a "Drone king" Anyone could've trained these skills at any time in the past, so it would've taken a few days. So I suppose you would've had an edge in drones over a two day newbie.
Anyone. One race never performed better than another in anything. They simply started with some more skills that anyone could train.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Ikar Kaltin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:10:00 -
[15]
This is a symptom of the same problem as the attribute redistribution. What does it matter now if you start Amarr, or caldari or whatever. You essentially have the exact same ability to do anything. We don't want that. The races are intinsically different, each have their different histories, their own differnet technology, the racial flavor! By doing this you may as well just remove all the story line and make everyone one race, with these 4 different races technology to choose from. Each of the characters are supposed to be graduates from one acadamy, belonging to one race, where they learn the skills to fly the ships of their own race.
If you make everything the same then you remove part of what makes the game interesting, the story line and the flair. What is the point in having an Amarr character has naff all skills for Amarrian ships. The game already favours Caldari ships as it is(but thats a whole other debate) so why take away any incentive new people have to train amarr, gallente or minmatar? Why have any different races and bloodlines at all if everyone is just going to be the same?
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Matt G
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:12:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Matt G on 16/02/2009 00:13:09
Originally by: Ikar Kaltin This is a symptom of the same problem as the attribute redistribution. What does it matter now if you start Amarr, or caldari or whatever. You essentially have the exact same ability to do anything. We don't want that. The races are intinsically different, each have their different histories, their own differnet technology, the racial flavor! By doing this you may as well just remove all the story line and make everyone one race, with these 4 different races technology to choose from. Each of the characters are supposed to be graduates from one acadamy, belonging to one race, where they learn the skills to fly the ships of their own race.
If you make everything the same then you remove part of what makes the game interesting, the story line and the flair. What is the point in having an Amarr character has naff all skills for Amarrian ships. The game already favours Caldari ships as it is(but thats a whole other debate) so why take away any incentive new people have to train amarr, gallente or minmatar? Why have any different races and bloodlines at all if everyone is just going to be the same?
Somebody understands the point that I am trying to get across. Thank you, Ikar.
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Icarus Flame
Amarr The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:30:00 -
[17]
The Anarchyt is right, of course. The Gallente as a starting race have NEVER been "the drone kings," because it is easy as hell for anyone to train Drones V. This isn't a NEW PROBLEM, because it was always this way. Why start whining about it now?
As for race being irrelevant, I disagree. The vast majority of new players start training the ships and weapons of their race from the get-go. Obviously there are some exceptions - The Anarchyt being one. I know somebody who went exactly the other way. Newbies start out in their respective regions, where the markets and rats are more conducive to their skills. The beauty of this game is that you can do whatever you want, and this has always been the case. The new patch is making that easier.
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Xailia
Unsteady Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:32:00 -
[18]
Starting skills really make no difference later on.
My portrait is Caldari, I fly primarily Gallente ships, back at the beginning I flew a lot of Amarr frigates, and a cruiser for a bit.
Being concerned with how your portrait is linked to your abilities shows a lack of understanding in what EVE is. Some people care about the conflicts between empires, but many don't, and fly and use tech from whoever they prefer.
Quote: We might as well be able to choose what faction cruiser we want and the types of weapons we wanna use.
Um... You can.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel."
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Matt G
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Xailia Starting skills really make no difference later on.
My portrait is Caldari, I fly primarily Gallente ships, back at the beginning I flew a lot of Amarr frigates, and a cruiser for a bit.
Being concerned with how your portrait is linked to your abilities shows a lack of understanding in what EVE is. Some people care about the conflicts between empires, but many don't, and fly and use tech from whoever they prefer.
Quote: We might as well be able to choose what faction cruiser we want and the types of weapons we wanna use.
Um... You can.
You are kind of missing something here, Xailia. What I am trying to say is that there is no point to having different races. They are all the same now. Noobs don't care about empire conflicts. It's an equal opportunity world now. Welcome to 2009.
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Dochas
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:36:00 -
[20]
I understand that this is a hard concept for someone with 1 million sp to grasp but the initial 800k sp you start with DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL. Do you reallize how many Caldari are Caldari just for the 3 charisma, with no intention to ever train caldari ships? With good learning/implants you can hit 17-19 million sp a year, so how does 800k influence that at all? Just because Amarr doesn't start with Drones to 5 doesn't mean they won't instantly train it. Just because the Caldari character starts with frig 3 doesn't mean I have to stay with Caldari frigs when I really want to fly Gallente frigs.
Previously the only time the starting 800k really mattered was if you were making a low sp specialized alt. Pick the starting skills to get you there fastest. For any long term character starting skills didn't really matter, attributes did. Now we can pick our attributes so people are free to use character selection to pick their character based on what race they WANT to be not what race has the attributes they need.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Icarus Flame As for race being irrelevant, I disagree. The vast majority of new players start training the ships and weapons of their race from the get-go. Obviously there are some exceptions - The Anarchyt being one. I know somebody who went exactly the other way. Newbies start out in their respective regions, where the markets and rats are more conducive to their skills. The beauty of this game is that you can do whatever you want, and this has always been the case. The new patch is making that easier.
But, they train their races skills because that is what they have been nudged into. Not necessarily because they want to play that way, or know any better at the time. I think that's the other important point.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Matt G
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:40:00 -
[22]
I'm just going to say the crap with this topic. People are obviously mistaking what I am trying to say. I'm tired of trying to explain myself. There are no more differences between the races now other than the portrait. I used to think that Gallente were specialized for drones, but now this is out the window. Caldari used to be specialized for missiles, that's also out the window.
Can we please get a billion dollar bail out on EVE, too? I mean, if it's really getting to the point where everybody's equal.
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Xailia
Unsteady Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:42:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Xailia on 16/02/2009 00:43:44
Originally by: Matt G You are kind of missing something here, Xailia. What I am trying to say is that there is no point to having different races. They are all the same now. Noobs don't care about empire conflicts. It's an equal opportunity world now. Welcome to 2009.
Yes, they don't matter. They never have. But for storyline/roleplay the ability to select a race is always important.
Races still matter when it comes to running corporations with a roleplaying attitude.
But races have never really mattered if you don't want them to matter, and these changes to character creation are more of a fix to bring that in line.
Originally by: Matt G I'm just going to say the crap with this topic. People are obviously mistaking what I am trying to say. I'm tired of trying to explain myself. There are no more differences between the races now other than the portrait. I used to think that Gallente were specialized for drones, but now this is out the window. Caldari used to be specialized for missiles, that's also out the window.
Races have NEVER had specialization. It was only for storyline purposes and ship bonuses/fittings that those traits were assigned. Who the pilot is in the pod makes no difference.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel."
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:46:00 -
[24]
I know certificates are supposed to help out with enhancing player understanding of skills but maybe you should toss up some tutorials of 'how do I improve ...?"
Like how do I improve my ability to market? Goto though the tutorial and it breaks down the market the skills that may be required and some thoght put on the players side on finding profits.
Its a problem Im seeing with alot of newer charcters these days they still dont know what skills they need to do the things they want to do. =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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QuantumX
Minmatar Sicarri Covenant Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:47:00 -
[25]
You pick a race on how you want to LOOK....
Your Train for WHAT you want to be in eve...
Starting attributes mean nothing....
========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
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Tankanaka
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:47:00 -
[26]
exaclty what Xailia said. It's very important for RP.
...additionally when people state that "Gallente are drone kings" they are referring to their ships -something any race can learn to pilot. It's been like that since day 1.
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Shirley Serious
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:47:00 -
[27]
You could only really say Gallente were drone specialists if drone skills all had Charisma as primary.
Yes. Yes, I am. |
Matt G
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:53:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Matt G on 16/02/2009 00:55:08 You all pull a rough discussion.
Okay, let's rephrase this now that all of this info is on the table.
Why are there 4 different races? They're all equal and have been since day 1.
Why do you start us off with gunnery and missile and frigate skills, if we aren't going to train our own race's ship skills? I mean, why don't you just let us choose the race we want to fly when we make the character?
Example: Character: Caldari Ship Skill: Gallente With that...I start with my Caldari character, and I start with Gallente Frig 2. Troubleshoot my mind if I sound stupid. |
Tankanaka
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:58:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Tankanaka on 16/02/2009 00:59:21 well if your not even starting with your racial ships then I agree that's the stupidest thing yet. It should be obvious that if you select a gallente character you would want to start out with it's racial frigate skill. all that does is getting new players cross training from the start which is a very bad thing.
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Matt G
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.16 00:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tankanaka well if your not even starting with your racial ships then I agree that's the stupidest thing yet. It should be obvious that if you select a gallente character you would want to start out with it's racial frigate skill.
But it's just a portrait... Troubleshoot my mind if I sound stupid. |
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