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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Delishandra Ptlaemaique
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Posted - 2009.02.16 20:47:00 -
[91]
so all in all, everybody is complaining, RPers because all race are the same statwise, non-RPers because only backstory is different, which they do not care about. Maybe its a big indication that its a good change...
I tried a new caracter on sisi, but had no tutorial (because I start in station by default?), and I couldn't change my attributes (it asked for 5m, a bug?). And there is a placeholder for a video presentation for each race (only sound for now, but I guess a small video is to come).
On the other hand I saw nowhere the story of eve, with earth, the colonisation, the collapsing gates etc, so some backstory might be hard to get for a noob...
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.16 21:29:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Originally by: Legionos McGuiros
Edited by: Legionos McGuiros on 16/02/2009 13:36:41
If you wnat that to be so CCP Gangleri then it would be nice if you included more backstory in the character creation. When i started eve for teh first time, watched the amazing introduction movie and then read the story on each of the races and bloodlines i knew who i was going to pick. But now if i was a new player i would not have a clue.
There is an introduction for each race, I suppose that part of the new player experience isn't on Sisi yet. But I can assure you that there will be backstory introductions for each race.
like a little video intro?
if so then.. cool.
also you better stick the whole backstory of the game in there somewhere.. ok? I think new players should understand how we all came to be here in new eden 
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Mica Swanhaven
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Posted - 2009.02.16 21:30:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Delishandra Ptlaemaique
so all in all, everybody is complaining, RPers because all race are the same statwise, non-RPers because only backstory is different, which they do not care about. Maybe its a big indication that its a good change...
I tried a new caracter on sisi, but had no tutorial (because I start in station by default?), and I couldn't change my attributes (it asked for 5m, a bug?). And there is a placeholder for a video presentation for each race (only sound for now, but I guess a small video is to come).
On the other hand I saw nowhere the story of eve, with earth, the colonisation, the collapsing gates etc, so some backstory might be hard to get for a noob...
yeah I still believe the 1st thing the tutorial should do it make you open the market, and show you how to buy and fit a civilian shield booster. that would be great for right before the combat.
shich once you undock the tutorial should start.
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Mirei Jun
Right to Rule
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.02.16 21:36:00 -
[94]
Starting with drones Level 5 certainly was a big help for me. I had no idea what it took to do combat missions, or anything else for that matter. But choosing a starting path and having the appropriate skills handed to me really helped. I imagine all professions are like this.
On the other side of this argument, I had to choose my race and character based on what type of stats I wanted, not which race or portrait looked best to me. However, these decisions were tied not to my starting skills, but rather my starting attributes (I knew nothing about skill training and just chose stats I liked).
I think the added attribute adjustment feature is great. It will allow new players to adjust after learning more about Eve, and older players to strategically plan their training. However, starting with almost no skills means new players, who don't understand anything about Eve yet, will have no idea which skills actually serve their interests. This means they will likely either train skills that don't help their goals, or spend a great deal of time reading instead of trying out the basics of what Eve has to offer.
Additionally, while the time for training will be halved, it is still time they will spend simply waiting. With poorly trained attributes, even a rank 1 skill takes days to train fully. Eve is, at its heart a science fiction based social networking scheme. But for new players skills still carry a great deal of weight and define oneÆs ability to participate and succeed in the PVE aspect of Eve. The training queue will in some ways mitigate this waiting, while at the same time exacerbate misunderstandings. New players will not start with a core set of tools to help them and will be forced to wait. Is waiting what you want new potential players (aka, potential customers) to be doing?
I say this to you because we all know Eve has a VERY steep learning curve. While efforts are being made to improve this, the fact still remains that Eve can seem inaccessible to some -perhaps many. Adding initial difficulties and frustrations could very well be the tipping point which causes a new player to close Eve, uninstall, and never consider the game again. This is bad for you as a business and us as users of your service. We all want this grand experiment known as Eve to thrive.
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Kayscha
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Posted - 2009.02.16 22:04:00 -
[95]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
You shouldn't have to pick your race based on what ships or weapons you want to use. You should pick it based on the backstory and appearance, then pick skills that will bring you to what you ultimately want to be. This is what the new system facilitates, as opposed to everyone choosing Achura just for the stats.
While it is indeed sad that everyone would choose Achura for stats, you are not making it any better with your solution.
Instead of balancing the races and bloodlines to even out players' preferences, you make them base it on something EVEN MORE superficial: looks!
Do you really think that more than 10% of players would choose any other races than the 3 coolest looking ones?
Race has no more meaning unless you want to roleplay a character with a very specific background (that is not in the least supported by the game's mechanic!) for some reason.
So, to save us some breath, tell us, dear Gangleri: Is the decision on this already final or is there some movement space left to accomodate arguments and general unrest on these forums? I wanna know if I should make suggestions or rather just emo-rage a bit.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.16 23:41:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Kayscha
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
You shouldn't have to pick your race based on what ships or weapons you want to use. You should pick it based on the backstory and appearance, then pick skills that will bring you to what you ultimately want to be. This is what the new system facilitates, as opposed to everyone choosing Achura just for the stats.
While it is indeed sad that everyone would choose Achura for stats, you are not making it any better with your solution.
Instead of balancing the races and bloodlines to even out players' preferences, you make them base it on something EVEN MORE superficial: looks!
Do you really think that more than 10% of players would choose any other races than the 3 coolest looking ones?
Race has no more meaning unless you want to roleplay a character with a very specific background (that is not in the least supported by the game's mechanic!) for some reason.
So, to save us some breath, tell us, dear Gangleri: Is the decision on this already final or is there some movement space left to accomodate arguments and general unrest on these forums? I wanna know if I should make suggestions or rather just emo-rage a bit.
If your backplot is irrelevant, then ... so what - pick what you think looks best.
If the backplot is relevant... then so be it. Pick a character based on it, and train your skills accordingly.
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249km locking? |
Neth'Rae
Gallente
Decorum Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.02.16 23:58:00 -
[97]
I don't get it, why do people want certain races to be gimped?
When I did a character for my friend I was forced to pick the khanid bloodline because all the others had the wrong stats..
Achura had been the best ofc but they look way to ridiculous..
I do Sigs, Banners and other Graphics for ISK. Click Here! |
Zex Maxwell
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.17 01:31:00 -
[98]
/me rasise hand.
Um...
I picked this race so i could be a missile *****. and the economic/military life style.
when I started that's what i thought to be first. missile major
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AngryMax
Gallente
Executable Inc
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:15:00 -
[99]
I started out with massive charisma. I welcome this change.
This thread is utter fail btw. It changes nothing. You can still spec in other race if you so desire with current system. It doesnt take THAT long to get good drone skills.
A lot of people in this thread have whining at 5 it seems. Its an easy skill to train.
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Zex Maxwell
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:43:00 -
[100]
I looked at the new char creation thingy. Its a massive change, but what I don't get is why did you bother keeping the Ancestry? It looks like there was supost to be a package deal going on, but it only shows more back story.
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Vyktor Abyss
IONSTAR
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.17 04:28:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 17/02/2009 04:29:17
Forum just ate my long post.
TL DR version:
Gallente identity has been nerfed repeatedly from close range, high DPS experts and the major drone race to a fairly homogenous race with only 3 specialist drone ships (Ishtar, Ishkur, Dominix), while other races have recieved massive drone boosts over the years. So I do see where the OP is coming from.
While starting folks off with vanilla attributes is sensible, making them have vanilla skills too makes no sense. Racial differences are a good thing, as is having characters fly their own race and use their own races weapons...it would be a shame to lose that.
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ResearchBunny Beatrix
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Posted - 2009.02.17 04:32:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Zex Maxwell
I looked at the new char creation thingy. Its a massive change, but what I don't get is why did you bother keeping the Ancestry? It looks like there was supost to be a package deal going on, but it only shows more back story.
Quoting this, the ancestry stuff is basically garbage now since it doesn't contribute anything other than a "click me because you have to" feeling.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 04:37:00 -
[103]
The real reason for identical attributes is rid the universe of Achura.
I am most pleased by this.
- Infectious - |
J'inko Unn
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Posted - 2009.02.17 06:03:00 -
[104]
CCP doesn't want this to be more about the story of EVE, rather then picking the best character. While I miss the old system of character creation, I do not entirely mind it. Also the starter of this thread merely is referring to the fact that it's been empathized that Gallentians are more prone to do more damage with drones, Caldarai do more damage with missiles, Amarrians with lasers, and Minimatar with auto cannons/artillery, and missles.
Keep in mind the introduction is for people that have never played EVE before, and this is the "hooking" system, so this is how they feel to best represent it :-)
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Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.17 11:19:00 -
[105]
just a question from my side...
*adding some content before ;P*
the current achura has 3 charisma.
any new charackter can through statschange get his charisma down to a min value of 5.
*question incomming*
if i now switch my attributes during the new expansion so that charisma is 5 or greater... will i be able to get it under 5 again cause i once had 3?
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Maliece
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:59:00 -
[106]
i really like the chance to respec my attributes, every 6 months may not be necessary but ok for me, iŠm only looking to get rid of some newb mistakes iŠve done 3 years ago ;-)
for the creation of new caracters i would suggest a two way solution
basic character creation for new players: choosing from paths like trading, combat, science, manufacturing ect. and let the players start with a core set of skills and stats depending on their race and education, the way it works now on TQ
This will give new players a toolset to start and a direction to improve their abilitys.
advanced character creation: only chose race, bloodline and education for rp purpose and the ability to distribute stats ans skills from start within the max sp and attribute points. Maybe you would like to fade out all non trial account skills for this distribution.
Attribute respec is a very welcome occasion for me. For RP purpose and WIS i would love to get a chance to rechoose my Race, Bloodline and school on my characters too. At least one chance to change this would be great in the future. Tbh i wouldnŠt care if i will have to pay for this isk or real mony.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:34:00 -
[107]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Your point is moot, because it never mattered what race you start off as as you can always train any skill. But now this prevents new players from making mistakes by having 500K or so in skills that they will never use.
Not really, they have to train skills to know what to use. If they wanted to reduce errors and still make players feel more useful they would add skills that everyone wanted to train to get those "grinds" out of the way so that players could spend more time deciding what they liked.
For the most part, you really need 4 in a skill to be able to determine if something is right for you. The difference in ability between the ships is too small to notice at 5% levels of differentiation.
Granted, this means that the main problem is not the new homogeneity, but the new lower skillpoint total to start out with. But it still means that its an overall bad idea.
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Aynen
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:40:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Aynen on 17/02/2009 18:40:52
Personally I believe that if getting more roleplay characters is the point, this isn't the way to do it. Attracting roleplayers to your game has everything to do with marketing. And Eve isn't marketed that way. Eve is a technically difficult and complicated game, this attracts gamers with analytical minds. Those gamers are far more inclined to make a statistically good character than to create a psychologically believable one. The 'walking in stations' expansion has a far greater chance of luring in roleplayers, and is a far better environment for allowing players the time to get into character. Even the most seasoned roleplayer would be too busy trying to stay allive in a firefight to say anything roleplay-like.
So if it'll be mostly analytical players who make use of the character creation then by far most of that player-base will analyse that race has become pointless. Making this a feature change aimed at only a currently very small portion of the player-base. Had the change been introduced simultainously with, or after the 'walking in stations' expansion, that'd have been different.
You've given us the chance to roleplay any race we want without penalty, but haven't yet given us an environment in which we can really do so effectively.
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:01:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Aynen
Edited by: Aynen on 17/02/2009 18:40:52
Personally I believe that if getting more roleplay characters is the point, this isn't the way to do it. Attracting roleplayers to your game has everything to do with marketing. And Eve isn't marketed that way. Eve is a technically difficult and complicated game, this attracts gamers with analytical minds. Those gamers are far more inclined to make a statistically good character than to create a psychologically believable one. The 'walking in stations' expansion has a far greater chance of luring in roleplayers, and is a far better environment for allowing players the time to get into character. Even the most seasoned roleplayer would be too busy trying to stay allive in a firefight to say anything roleplay-like.
So if it'll be mostly analytical players who make use of the character creation then by far most of that player-base will analyse that race has become pointless. Making this a feature change aimed at only a currently very small portion of the player-base. Had the change been introduced simultainously with, or after the 'walking in stations' expansion, that'd have been different.
You've given us the chance to roleplay any race we want without penalty, but haven't yet given us an environment in which we can really do so effectively.
Your definition of role play is apparently much narrower than mine. In my view every choice you make in character creation is role play, you choose a bloodline for its cool name or just looks. Both are role play, even creating a comical portrait is. It is impossible to go through the character creation process without rolep laying since you are creating an avatar that will represent you in a fictional setting. Thats pretty much what you do at the start of every role play session I have ever been part of.
Whether you choose to actively role play after that or not is irrelevant to this thread, this thread is about the character creation process and the way it has changed. Getting more role play characters was not the point of the change, but a lot of the complaints posted here about the new system were based around it inhibiting role play, which is what I addressed in my posts.
Also, you are in combat, trying to destroy another fictional characters possessions in a fictional universe... whether you talk or not during the engagement you are still roleplaying in my book 
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Aynen
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:15:00 -
[110]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Originally by: Aynen
Edited by: Aynen on 17/02/2009 18:40:52
Personally I believe that if getting more roleplay characters is the point, this isn't the way to do it. Attracting roleplayers to your game has everything to do with marketing. And Eve isn't marketed that way. Eve is a technically difficult and complicated game, this attracts gamers with analytical minds. Those gamers are far more inclined to make a statistically good character than to create a psychologically believable one. The 'walking in stations' expansion has a far greater chance of luring in roleplayers, and is a far better environment for allowing players the time to get into character. Even the most seasoned roleplayer would be too busy trying to stay allive in a firefight to say anything roleplay-like.
So if it'll be mostly analytical players who make use of the character creation then by far most of that player-base will analyse that race has become pointless. Making this a feature change aimed at only a currently very small portion of the player-base. Had the change been introduced simultainously with, or after the 'walking in stations' expansion, that'd have been different.
You've given us the chance to roleplay any race we want without penalty, but haven't yet given us an environment in which we can really do so effectively.
Your definition of role play is apparently much narrower than mine. In my view every choice you make in character creation is role play, you choose a bloodline for its cool name or just looks. Both are role play, even creating a comical portrait is. It is impossible to go through the character creation process without rolep laying since you are creating an avatar that will represent you in a fictional setting. Thats pretty much what you do at the start of every role play session I have ever been part of.
Whether you choose to actively role play after that or not is irrelevant to this thread, this thread is about the character creation process and the way it has changed. Getting more role play characters was not the point of the change, but a lot of the complaints posted here about the new system were based around it inhibiting role play, which is what I addressed in my posts.
Also, you are in combat, trying to destroy another fictional characters possessions in a fictional universe... whether you talk or not during the engagement you are still roleplaying in my book
You make a good point there, my definition of roleplay is a bit different indeed. I suppose from your perspective that would mean that even when you're playing a realtime strategy game you're roleplaying as a fictional general ordering fictional forces around. It's a valid point of view.
However, I still argue that the players who do not approach character creation from a statistical point of view form a very small portion of the player-base. From a design standpoint, is it smart to make such a change against the bulk of the playerbase's will?
Or do you think I'm incorrect in saying that the analytical gamer forms the bulk of the playerbase?
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:28:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Aynen
You make a good point there, my definition of roleplay is a bit different indeed. I suppose from your perspective that would mean that even when you're playing a realtime strategy game you're roleplaying as a fictional general ordering fictional forces around. It's a valid point of view.
However, I still argue that the players who do not approach character creation from a statistical point of view form a very small portion of the player-base. From a design standpoint, is it smart to make such a change against the bulk of the playerbase's will?
Or do you think I'm incorrect in saying that the analytical gamer forms the bulk of the playerbase?
I think most MMO players have an analytical mind, doubly so in Eve due to its depth and complexity. However I fail to see how the new system is worse in this regard than the old one.
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Aynen
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:04:00 -
[112]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Originally by: Aynen
You make a good point there, my definition of roleplay is a bit different indeed. I suppose from your perspective that would mean that even when you're playing a realtime strategy game you're roleplaying as a fictional general ordering fictional forces around. It's a valid point of view.
However, I still argue that the players who do not approach character creation from a statistical point of view form a very small portion of the player-base. From a design standpoint, is it smart to make such a change against the bulk of the playerbase's will?
Or do you think I'm incorrect in saying that the analytical gamer forms the bulk of the playerbase?
I think most MMO players have an analytical mind, doubly so in Eve due to its depth and complexity. However I fail to see how the new system is worse in this regard than the old one.
Older players often made their choice of character in order to gain a tactical advantage. This tactical advantage is now taken from them. They don't like that.
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:06:00 -
[113]
TBH I feel that the tutorial just needs tweeking.
1!)The combat section needs a section on Drones, and maybee a section on missle launchers.
2@)that odd glitch I ran into that started the tutorial (Mountain out of molehills) in the middle then rebooted to the first mission in the arc thus giveing you 2 Indis from the arc when your only suposed to get 1(I got the Industrials from doing all of the tutorial missions and ended up with three)
3#) the oddity that the game gives you refining skillbook when you dont have the skills needed to train it. (the way the tutorial is scripted it sound like you cant refine at all untill you train the skill but you cant even train the skill untill you get industry skill)
4$) I would sudgest that you add sections for other weapons used (Missles and Drones)
5%) Industry arc needs a section dealing with BPOs and doing R&D work on them. maybe grant a "Civilian module" BPO and have the player send it to ME or Copy or R&D research for example (heck add in "Civilian BPO only" sections to the existing labs and scrip it to only take Civilian BPOs that have not been researched so twits cant just plug in the same BPO to plug up the works)
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:39:00 -
[114]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Your definition of role play is apparently much narrower than mine.
You are a roleplayer if roleplay your character in game, if you are in a RP corp or if you follow IGS and post in there occationally. Otherwise you are not a roleplayer. Choosing a particular race because you like its description better is not RP.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:42:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Your definition of role play is apparently much narrower than mine.
You are a roleplayer if roleplay your character in game, if you are in a RP corp or if you follow IGS and post in there occationally. Otherwise you are not a roleplayer. Choosing a particular race because you like its description better is not RP.
that's like saying if you plat D&D but don't "roleplay" you aren't roleplaying.
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Kayscha
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:42:00 -
[116]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
I think most MMO players have an analytical mind, doubly so in Eve due to its depth and complexity. However I fail to see how the new system is worse in this regard than the old one.
You have still not made any valid point as to how removing racial diversity (stats-wise) improves the game in any way.
On the other hand, countless posts have been made arguing the opposite.
BTW: please elaborate some more on how creating a character (well, not really; you just create a face and a name, now, don't you?) at your pc already is roleplaying.
I guess most of us were of the opinion that roleplaying is what you do with it afterwards. For example, mining in a battlecruiser with a character specialized in trading. Less so if everyone is just an identical presumptious immortal demigod clone with an individual face and name...
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:49:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Kayscha
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
I think most MMO players have an analytical mind, doubly so in Eve due to its depth and complexity. However I fail to see how the new system is worse in this regard than the old one.
You have still not made any valid point as to how removing racial diversity (stats-wise) improves the game in any way.
On the other hand, countless posts have been made arguing the opposite.
BTW: please elaborate some more on how creating a character (well, not really; you just create a face and a name, now, don't you?) at your pc already is roleplaying.
I guess most of us were of the opinion that roleplaying is what you do with it afterwards. For example, mining in a battlecruiser with a character specialized in trading. Less so if everyone is just an identical presumptious immortal demigod clone with an individual face and name...
I guess it's more based a vampire type of system. WHITEWOLF. where your race and bloodline (dear god it fits) don't effect you at all really as far as what you can be.
However CCP, in vampire, you get little negitive effects, or boosts and such to skills.
So like one bloodline in vamp has the defect of being too cuaght up with art.
or another one is insane.
I don't know how to put negative things into a video game though...
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Kayscha
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:54:00 -
[118]
Originally by: MotherMoon
I guess it's more based a vampire type of system. WHITEWOLF. where your race and bloodline (dear god it fits) don't effect you at all really as far as what you can be.
However CCP, in vampire, you get little negitive effects, or boosts and such to skills.
Well, that's exactly what I'd like to see. If ou wanted to be an Amarr drone god, you should be able to, but you would still have something besides your portrait that'd distinguish you from a Gallente.
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Aynen
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:55:00 -
[119]
I believe that roleplaying (in the sense of actively 'acting' a persona) isn't stimulated by the absense of statistics. It's stimulated by the presense of a social environment.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.17 21:30:00 -
[120]
I am not roleplaying, I am simply playing a game where I pretend to be a space captain on a starship in the far future.
Why is this not obvious?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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