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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Xailia Unsteady Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.16 01:01:00 - [31] Edited by: Xailia on 16/02/2009 01:05:18 There are 4 races to give diversity to the ships of EVE, also to provide 4 distinct cultures. You start with your racial ship/gunnery skills mostly because you went to a school in your empire. (Choosing where you went to school is something I would love to see, hard to have a mixed Gallente/Caldari background when facial blending and choosing a school isn't possible; it is frustrating) But what race you began your life as can still apply in your capsuleer life. There are many single race RP-oriented corporations. With the emancipation of Minmatar from the Amarr empire, it would make even more sense to be able to have mixed bloodlines and the ability to choose your home space at character creation. I'm sure many of the freed slaves have mixed Amarr/Minmatar backgrounds and wind up going to school in Gallente space. "The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel."
Hereon Herinnger Gallente Nolra Corp	Posted - 2009.02.16 01:06:00 - [32] Originally by: Xailia There are 4 races to give diversity to the ships of EVE, also to provide 4 distinct cultures. This. You people assume everyone plays the game for the sole purpose of maximizing their attributes and skills. Some of us like to have fun .
Anneka Tong B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2009.02.16 01:19:00 - [33] There's a whole lot of bloodline and backgrounds that you hardly ever meet ingame, except for highly specialised alt characters, because the attributes mean so much. Akita T's guide to character creation That pretty much says Achura are the best general purpose character, so what then is the point of the other race/bloodlines ? If you want to fly Gallente ships, you're better off being an Achuran than being a Gallente. I like genetic engineering Past projects: The Radioactive Sheep Current project: Cybercow
Neth'Rae Gallente Decorum Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.02.16 01:23:00 - [34] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 16/02/2009 01:26:41 Edited by: Neth''Rae on 16/02/2009 01:25:09 Originally by: Matt G I planned on starting 100% over when the patch comes out, except my isk, and making a more specialized character. Why would you want to start over? (btw, it's not starting over 100% if you keep your isk :P) Especially now in Apocrypha when you can re-assign your stats. And you also start with less SP, so you might aswell start over before Apocrypha? Originally by: Matt G No point in the races or bloodlines now because I can just spend a few hours and be whatever I want. They are just pictures now. Yeah, that's how it should have been from the start, be whatever race you want to be and learn whatever skills you want to learn. I do Sigs, Banners and other Graphics for ISK. Click Here!
X3k5 The Knights Templar Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:02:00 - [35] Edited by: X3k5 on 16/02/2009 02:03:46 Ok News Flash for Matt G and company - The four different races have different ships??????????????? Starting without drone skills as Gallente doesnt make Ishtar a droneless ship and as such Gallente remain "Drone Kings". The "incentive" to train different races is in the ships, not in the few skills that you start with. Its the ships that really DEFINE races in EvE. Because any race character can crosstrain. That hasnt just happened, it has always been so in this game. The flexibility is the beauty of this game.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:23:00 - [36] I actually get what the OP is saying. The fact that all 4 races are still human, means that they're basically the same. The variety came from the society of each race. The Caldari were militaristic, favoring order and discipline. That's why their ships look like LEGOs, with very rigid lines and angles. The Minmatar were downtrodden slaves attempting to recover themselves by setting out into space. That's why their ships look like they were made from scraps left behind when their oppressors got up and left. The often quoted example of Gallente "Kings of Drones" comes from the fact while every race -can- use drones, the Gallente ships are focused on them. Their society is focused on a life of luxury, and having drones to do all the work for you seems very luxurious. The underlying point of this thread... is that removing social focus from each race ultimately reduces everyone down to "human" and nothing more. And while Eve is a fascinating endeavor exploring the psyche of its players... It's also a game. Every other MMO and tabletop game provides racial bonuses and penalties. And while I don't think we need some sort of magic bond between an Amarr pilot and an Amarr ship... it would stand to reason that someone raised in a culture would be better with that cultures toys. That doesn't mean that a Caldari couldn't learn how to fly an Amarr ship just as well, if not better. But it does mean that a Caldari would have to go out of their way to learn. We all start with a few skills we probably won't use. That's called a "well rounded education". And it's the same reason you have to take English Lit and Biology, even when you major in Computer Science. So... Each race having their own society, and a focus for each society, is what defines the differences between them. And if each society is blended together from the start, with no variety, then there isn't any reason to leave the 4 races separate. Trying to justify it as "roleplay" is a failed example from the start. No one pays attention to roleplay anymore. Just like mission briefings, when most people only read enough to see who they're facing, and where. CCP had to go out of their way and make Factional Warfare to try and encourage racial preference again. And even then... you could side with whoever you wanted. So there was no motivation to be a Gallente fighting for the Gallente. You fought for whoever you chose. If they want to make character creation a cookie cutter process, and make each race identical to the next, then they are taking quite a lot away from the game. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Matt G Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:43:00 - [37] Holy cow already, so all you guys are saying the same thing over and over again. Enough of this stupid convo already. I guess EVE was not all in-depth to begin with. Troubleshoot my mind if I sound stupid.
Abene Placito Black Legion Command Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.16 03:14:00 - [38] Dude, it's not that no one gets what you're saying, it's just that you have no idea what you're talking about. As said before, the initial 800k SP means absolutely nothing.
Xam Nesse	Posted - 2009.02.16 03:29:00 - [39] OK, perhaps a slightly different approach to the Races. Each race begins with a slightly different focus but Eve allows the players to choose what training paths they desire. This is all very good however, a players race does seem to mean less and less as the skill points increase. So, how about Racial Bonus' for each of the races. Gallente get +5% Drone and Hybrid damage when flying a Gallente ship. Caldari get +5% Missile damage when flying a Caldari ship. etc ... Just an idea that gives a small bonus to a character that trains and stays in his/her race's technologies.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.02.16 03:34:00 - [40] Edited by: Terianna Eri on 16/02/2009 03:35:00 On topic, I went to make a new character the other day on Sisi. The choices of race/bloodline/specialization/career (all those things which used to determine attributes and starting skills)... There's no indication what picking one over another actually means. It seems like a totally pointless and arbitrary choice. So... what's the point of even having them? Either the choice is totally arbitrary, in which case why not do away with them entirely, or give us back an indication what choosing one over another actually does. EDIT: The old character creation might have been a little overwhelming with the amount of data it gave the player, but the new one has the player making exactly the same choices and this time, totally and utterly devoid of context. It's terrible. __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Matt G Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.02.16 03:42:00 - [41] Well, I think CCP paid attention to what I was trying to say, and now Missile Launcher Op skills are not in my selection. Thank you, CCP! Now if there was only a button that said "Forget Skill"... Troubleshoot my mind if I sound stupid.
shuckstar Gallente Hauling hogs	Posted - 2009.02.16 04:08:00 - [42] Originally by: Shirley Serious Originally by: Matt G What is the point now in having separate races? roleplay. Different character portrait options. QFT
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.02.16 04:33:00 - [43] I agree with casquade. New character skills really dont matter. Hell my character is gallente because I liked gallente how they were democratic and such. Truly... if this 55,000 sp char deal is real. That's great. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Taylor timenenzi	Posted - 2009.02.16 04:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Matt G Holy cow already, so all you guys are saying the same thing over and over again. Enough of this stupid convo already. I guess EVE was not all in-depth to begin with. No people get what your saying they just dont agree with you. And yes you have been ranting and saying the very same thing. You should go learn how to be in a grown up conversation where there are disenting opnions and deal with it.
Matt G Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.02.16 04:46:00 - [45] Okay, mom. I really don't think there's much else to discuss on this topic. Everybody checking this out AFTER the conversation has been dead for a while just drag it on. Read and weep. Troubleshoot my mind if I sound stupid.
Terra Mikael SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.16 05:29:00 - [46] I think what he's trying to say is that these are all cookie cutter characters. Which are nice for new players, but for more advanced players, we would like to build it from the ground up. Perhaps add an "advanced" character creation tab? ________________________________ Originally by: Korovyov You WIN! And by win, I mean suck horse manure.
Anne Archer	Posted - 2009.02.16 08:11:00 - [47] To be honest, why would a new player develop any special interest at the onset in a character that comes out of a completely generic cookie cutter mold at the very beginning. I think a good game/MMO should be almost like a book where a beginning character can spark your interest in some small way that will make you want grow and develop your character. I beleive it sets some very poor expectations at the beginning of a new game for a player if there is nothing different about the races/characer at the onset. If a game has been around for years and it's all the same to start, What's the rest of it going to be like? Playing ANY MMO you want to feel like you can develop a character that is at least in some way's different from everyone else's character. How do you peak the interest of a new player who wants to develop a character who's primary interest may lie in 'Exploration' and can develop that extra something by reading about the different races and their histories. What they learn from their research can draw them further into the character. This makes the game more immersive and fun for them if there is an actuall difference in the races/attributes that have developed from the history they were to have spawned from. EVE has a very interesting background story. Why not use it instead of throwing it away. I think about my Caldari, Alchura research alt and would think she's no big deal starting out with the same generic skills that everyone else has. With the nerfing of my missile specialization skills in QR for one of my alts and so far completely throwing out my exploration skills in Apocrypha, so that any completely new character has almost the same ability in locating or scanning down a complex in same time or with the sam chance that I have after months of training to accomplish is completely demoralizing. (I haven't heard how my current Eploration characters maxed skills are being changed yet,-still trying to be hopeful) I'm really starting to feel like what's the point of specializing in anything when it can be taken away at a whim by the developers. I am trying to stay optimistic about Apocrypha but am quickly losing hope. I've seen literally hundreds of pages posted on different aspects of the game from the community during QR and the latest update PLEADING with the developers to please spend more time reviewing the intended changes and listen to their feedback. But with much dismay these pleas, seem to be following on deaf or indifferent ears. Here's hoping this isn't just one more plea that will be ignored. Please help us keep our characters unique and make them seem like they are worth something or in some small way different. Please help to keep the story interesting. I apologize for the long diatribe.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.02.16 10:45:00 - [48] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 16/02/2009 10:46:27 Originally by: Anne Archer I think a good game/MMO should be almost like a book where a beginning character can spark your interest in some small way that will make you want grow and develop your character. I beleive it sets some very poor expectations at the beginning of a new game for a player if there is nothing different about the races/characer at the onset. If a game has been around for years and it's all the same to start, What's the rest of it going to be like? Nicely put, and I also agree with what Marcus wrote earlier. To me the distinction between the races skills isn't so critical, it perhaps does send the right message that you can train anything. However, with the skill/attribute distinction gone, it becomes much more important that you can distinguish between the races and make an informed choice as to why you'd want to be Amarr True Amarrian, or Caldari Achura, or Minmatar Brutor. EVE lacks any storytelling ability as it stands. We're expected to guess and look up the background story outside of the game - I still meet players today who say 'there's a backstory? Damn why didn't anyone tell me?' because they focus on the game, not the web-site. The new player experience could go a long way to provide at least hints as to the style of society you come from, the reasons your race has a dislike for two of the others, why Gallente ships tend to use drones, why we're in pods, and others of the basics of EVE that get asked time and time again. After that new player experience, I don't know. I'd like to see epic storyline missions that actually provide some of the background story, so that you don't have to spend a day out of game reading Ruthless to get some of the backstory, but it's strictly a separate topic worthy of a separate thread. As an aside, look at Factional Warfare - as it stands, as a new player, how would you know who to fight for, and why? ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
Sade Onyx	Posted - 2009.02.16 10:45:00 - [49] omg, why is it so hard to understand? look.. we are living in the age of MMO's! Long gone are the days when people load an mmo, roll a character that sounds good and continue on their own individual merry way... People READ UP about mmo's now, people ask questions about "whats best".... There will be a cookie cutter character path that everyone will copy. And you have LOST the mix of characters you have now and be breeding clones. I completely agree with OP, There needs to be SOME difference between races just as there are vast differences in education with races on earth! You go to school to learn a specific subject or group of subjects, but in eve you go to school and every pilot comes out of whatever school or background they come from and THEY ARE ALL IDENTICAL??? - Seriously, I would like to know why CCP thinks we should all be the same. There simply MUST be differences between races, I just dont get it. Please, someone from CCP explain it!
Flinchey Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.16 10:49:00 - [50] Originally by: Matt G I'm not missing that point. No, Gallente don't use missile ships, they use drone boats (dominix) and hybrid weapons. The only time I actually used a missile with my gallente character was when I jumped in a strategic cruiser and found I had 1 slot. This is why I started a caldari character because I don't have to worry about starting with drones on Gallente cause I don't. Use to start with Drones 5, and 3 other skills in drones. Now, that's gone out the window. Maybe it was too easy for noobs to get up and going, but hey, no drone skills makes it much easier cause they can choose what they wanna do. See my point? It doesn't matter what race you start off with anymore, they are all the same except the name and the look. Why are there 4 races now? maybe.... you know... you missed the starting movie and the tons of chronicles and eve novels but.... eve has a storyline? the races.. kinda.. need to exist irregardless of skill differences? including major gameplay mechanics like FW and standings.
Ha'Uler GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.16 10:54:00 - [51] Originally by: Flinchey Originally by: Matt G I'm not missing that point. No, Gallente don't use missile ships, they use drone boats (dominix) and hybrid weapons. The only time I actually used a missile with my gallente character was when I jumped in a strategic cruiser and found I had 1 slot. This is why I started a caldari character because I don't have to worry about starting with drones on Gallente cause I don't. Use to start with Drones 5, and 3 other skills in drones. Now, that's gone out the window. Maybe it was too easy for noobs to get up and going, but hey, no drone skills makes it much easier cause they can choose what they wanna do. See my point? It doesn't matter what race you start off with anymore, they are all the same except the name and the look. Why are there 4 races now? maybe.... you know... you missed the starting movie and the tons of chronicles and eve novels but.... eve has a storyline? the races.. kinda.. need to exist irregardless of skill differences? including major gameplay mechanics like FW and standings. Factional warfare is about as relevant to the eve universeas the impact of can stealing on veldspar prices.
Haladora Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:05:00 - [52] I get the whole idea behind this change but I think they are going about it the wrong way. I agree that noobs shouldn't choose stats and stuff as first thing when starting a char, that's stupid since they got no clue what it will mean for them in game. My idea is this: give new players (first char on an account) this change then instead of 200% training speed just let them choose stats, bloodline, skills, etc after the tutorial or something similar. This way they get to learn first then choose. Also means us creating alts aren't effected.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:13:00 - [53] Originally by: Ha'Uler Factional warfare is about as relevant to the eve universe as the impact of can stealing on veldspar prices. So is the fight between Goonswarm and Bob if you're not involved in it - that doesn't make it less fun or relevant to those involved. At least factional warfare has a well-written story to it - the public image of the Goons and Bob is two powerhouses fighting for the hell of it. Fun, sure, but not very deep. I don't mean to sound critical, really, but do try and understand some people want a backstory and to have fun with that, rather than just shoot people for lulz. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
Kayscha	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:16:00 - [54] Great. Another remnant of game world history and individual background is going to be demolished to make way for a generic sandbox of arbitrariness. In real life, diversity is a two-edged thing. It allows for variety, identity and individuality as much as for, sadly, discrimination and conflict. In a game, however, conflict is desired and discrimination not really much of an issue. Only the good parts of diversity remain. Since races are a good way to introduce tangible diversity in this game of make-believe, it is ok to be "racist" and give players a choice between preset advantages and disadvantages. Choice needs to have consequence, for while consequence may be painful, it offers meaning and a source of satisfaction. There are very few choices in EVE that really have any serious consequences, so leave us this one. Better yet, let us make further informed choices by choosing social backgrounds and educations at chargen (Megatraveller, anyone?). Thanks.
MJ Maverick IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:28:00 - [55] Originally by: Matt G My point is, each race started with specialized skills to help them. Gallente had drones, Caldari had missile skills, Minmatar...didn't care about them cause they fly buckets of bolts so IDK, and same with Amarr. Rofl QFT! To be honest I think Gallente should DEFINITELY have a head start in drone skills. Amarr a head start in tanking skills, Minmatar a head start in navigation skills and Caldari; missiles. Although it makes a nice sentence, making all the races equal on start is a bad idea! It will just ultimately confused players on what ships to train and what belongs to what race... If they don't see an advantage on training their own race then they will be on frigates and cruisers forever... They will be like "try this frigate, no now this one. Oh I have to train another frigate skill for this one?" They will spend more time messing around in circles on frigates than is needed to get a battleship... Let's face it, the best way to drag in a new player is to show them the toys they get to play with later. Even more so, let them sample what their race can do and what it's good at. --------------------
Bonny Lee Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:32:00 - [56] I dont see your point cause atm everybody is achura. With this change there probably wont be 50% Achura chars in EvE.
Candily	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:34:00 - [57] Nice, now instead of portrait, can we have the "Eve Hard Mode" written all over Minmatar? Pretty pls?
Aynen	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:35:00 - [58] Way I see it, making race not matter anymore and giving people the option to re-spec greatly increases the risk of tons of players using the same 'build', greatly decreasing the diversity of characters out there. I propose a different kind of 're-speccing' since I do understand the need to not let players eternally pay for mistakes they made as a new player. You can have 3 characters on 1 account, and those 3 characters can be of different race. What if, once every six months, you could transfer all your skillpoints from one of those characters to another, basically swapping them around. You can then keep racial bonusses and perks, while still making it so that players won't have to be stuck to them.
Jalif Black Sinisters Freedom of Elbas	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:45:00 - [59] With the old movie I knew directly what were the diffrences between the races and they gave you a very good impression of the race (and its RP side of it). At that moment you "felt" already which race you had to choose. Now with the new system you going after the logic. Democratic! aahh Gallente, Ruthless Militairy? Caldari! - Religous? who the hell chooses that? Minmatar? Slaves? nobody is going to choose that. (this is my opinion tbh) Thx to that "old" move I felt I had to choose for minmatar. If I would enter the game in 2 months I wouldn't have chosen it & I wouldn't have as much fun because I love the fly minmatar. Its the feel factor that is left out. I would like to see the introduction of the races back into the game. However I like the new one too. It gives you the real side of eve. You are basicly immortal & you are a demi-god. I would say, mix the 2 stuff. Make a longer epic-video, with some art instead of ingame shots.
Corin Nebulon Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.02.16 12:26:00 - [60] Well, CCP gives new players double training speed, so from the beginning they will be at about 60% training speed of a older char, that has +4 implants. In order to maximize their sp-gain. New Players have now to train the learning skills to at least 4 and rush to get the money for the advanced learning skills, in order to train them to 4 aswell. After this, they will have a "real" bonus to training time. Maybe soem will train standart learning skills to 5. After this, they will be able to train other skills, like afterburners, frigate 3 etc. Why giving them a speedboost instead of standart learning skills 5 and advanced learning skills 1? Less frustration for the noob and almost the same effect after 40 days. Just less frustrating. A small skillset, so people have frig 3, and don't have to depend on civilian modules and can run level 1 missions ... Of course the loosers are the people who just want a pos gunner alt, or a hauler alt. But then why not include both? Char creation for new players, with learning skills and a few other skills aswell, and a char creation for the older players, where they get a nice boost to their trainingtime but no skills at all?

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