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Next Neural Remap Available 2010

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2009.02.22 17:23:00 - [1] a half year was ok but one full year makes it pretty senseless with an inoptimal waiting time for skill optimization
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.22 17:31:00 - [2] The idea behind neural remapping isn't that you can train your skills faster without downsides. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.02.22 17:35:00 - [3] maybe double the time with every remap, starting with 3months - putting the gist back into logistics
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2009.02.22 17:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Furb Killer The idea behind neural remapping isn't that you can train your skills faster without downsides. for what is it then ? i mean it is an function what should make the game better
Moff Tigriss Gallente IMpAct Corp	Posted - 2009.02.22 18:03:00 - [5] It's only for help olds players, or non-experimenteds, with bad caracs distribution. ("Woot, Charism sound really cool -> +3 points", 1 year later : "Awww, what the frack is Charism ?") It's not designed for PVP without implants :P
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2009.02.22 18:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Moff Tigriss It's only for help olds players, or non-experimenteds, with bad caracs distribution. ("Woot, Charism sound really cool -> +3 points", 1 year later : "Awww, what the frack is Charism ?") It's not designed for PVP without implants :P so the can skill faster without downsites ? an only once at year available charima remover ? for what will u use it if u got your charisma removed an waited one year ? or can we creat different attribute setups on different clones ?
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Electric Monkey Overlords	Posted - 2009.02.22 18:30:00 - [7] Originally by: DMF KingBob Originally by: Moff Tigriss It's only for help olds players, or non-experimenteds, with bad caracs distribution. ("Woot, Charism sound really cool -> +3 points", 1 year later : "Awww, what the frack is Charism ?") It's not designed for PVP without implants :P so the can skill faster without downsites ? an only once at year available charima remover ? for what will u use it if u got your charisma removed an waited one year ? or can we creat different attribute setups on different clones ? you cant create diffrent attribute setups for diffrent clones. Its not about allowing you to train carrier 5 and dread 5 for half a year then switching to inteligence/memory based skills for another year ect Its about people that did not know what attributes did when they started the game and made characters with bad attributes being able to correct those mistakes.
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2009.02.22 20:01:00 - [8] Edited by: DMF KingBob on 22/02/2009 20:02:52 Originally by: Random Womble Originally by: DMF KingBob Originally by: Moff Tigriss It's only for help olds players, or non-experimenteds, with bad caracs distribution. ("Woot, Charism sound really cool -> +3 points", 1 year later : "Awww, what the frack is Charism ?") It's not designed for PVP without implants :P so the can skill faster without downsites ? an only once at year available charima remover ? for what will u use it if u got your charisma removed an waited one year ? or can we creat different attribute setups on different clones ? you cant create diffrent attribute setups for diffrent clones. Its not about allowing you to train carrier 5 and dread 5 for half a year then switching to inteligence/memory based skills for another year ect Its about people that did not know what attributes did when they started the game and made characters with bad attributes being able to correct those mistakes. for what is then the counter ? when it is an "error corretion" should it only one time available then using it for train dread and carrier at 5 is exactly that what i want to do and the(a good thing for the players as u are) and that can i do with 1 year too but it keeps me prefering at 1 or 2 skill-sections for too long(i mean a half year is long enough) and this is not-optimal-usable and development means not from ok ---->to not optimal or do you mean that the eve players spend to less time in skilling ?
Hoshi Eviction.	Posted - 2009.02.22 20:12:00 - [9] Because things change in eve. Let us assume that most people will put minimal amount of points in char. Then CCP decides to add a large number of important skills that has char primary. If that happens you are going to have a lot of people screaming for another respec. So instead of arbitrary adding respecs they give you one per year. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations

CCP Hypnotic	Posted - 2009.02.22 20:54:00 - [10] Originally by: DMF KingBob Originally by: Furb Killer The idea behind neural remapping isn't that you can train your skills faster without downsides. for what is it then ? We should all remember, attribute respec was introduced so we could remove the assigning of attribute points from character creation. This way new players could make these choices after being properly educated about what the attributes actually do for them. The happy side effect of creating this new code and interface was that we were able to offer the feature to current players, allowing them to fix mistakes made in character creation as well as facilitating the optimization of long term skill plans. Since Sisi is an environment for us to try different options and settings we've been working on our definition of "long term." Originally it was 6 months, it is now 1 year.


Ex Mudder Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.22 21:39:00 - [11] Would it be possible to give us a "free" remap, with a second remap starting the 1 year timer? I've remapped my skills on SiSi twice so far and am still not sure I've chosen an optimal configuration. I'd rather not wait a year if I dislike my first remap choice. Also, the 5 million price tag is fine for the once a year remap, I'd make the free remaps isk free, to help new players.
Rhohan Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.22 21:43:00 - [12] Edited by: Rhohan on 22/02/2009 21:46:08 Last time I checked, it was free. Remap per 6 months = sprint training. Remap per 1 yr = be sure you choose wisely to correct errors during Char Creation, or long term specialized traing.
Venatoris Portucalis Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.02.22 22:06:00 - [13] Edited by: Venatoris Portucalis on 22/02/2009 22:07:31 Tbh, 6 Months sounded like a perfect time, long enought so u dont tend to switch on a whim, and short enought so u can adapt and take the most advantage on your skill plan. 1 year was way too long IMHO. Vena p.s. with 1 year change only, i would bet that most remaps will tend on a char with all average skills... The views expressed here are my personal views, and in no way represent my corporation views.
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2009.02.22 22:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Rhohan Last time I checked, it was free. Remap per 6 months = sprint training. Remap per 1 yr = be sure you choose wisely to correct errors during Char Creation, or long term specialized traing. You missed this one out... Remap per lifetime = Moving one point because you're an OCDboy. Moving one point and training those level 5 advanced learning skills will be worth it though dammit! -----
Cyb3r D3ath Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.02.22 22:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Venatoris Portucalis Edited by: Venatoris Portucalis on 22/02/2009 22:07:31 Tbh, 6 Months sounded like a perfect time, long enought so u dont tend to switch on a whim, and short enought so u can adapt and take the most advantage on your skill plan. 1 year was way too long IMHO. Vena p.s. with 1 year change only, i would bet that most remaps will tend on a char with all average skills... /signed
Aleyra Mel	Posted - 2009.02.22 22:36:00 - [16] Edited by: Aleyra Mel on 22/02/2009 22:37:36 1 year is fine. I would suggest 1 remap only forever.
Maren Maen	Posted - 2009.02.23 01:15:00 - [17] 1 year does feel too long tbh. But 6 months also feels too short.. Perhaps something in between, like 9 months?
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 01:23:00 - [18] "Hey you should give us attribute remapping" "Now that you're giving it to us, it is way too long. Give it to me so I can do it every day." Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2009.02.23 01:57:00 - [19] Sounds to me, like a lot of folks heard "respec" and immediately assumed they could min/max their characters every few months. Hoping to dump a bunch into CHA, train up all the Leadership/Social/Trade skills... and then in a few months they could readjust and power level some other set of skills. They all made such a big uproar about how awesome it would be, and how they were all excited at the prospect of exploiting the system and getting their epeen as big and powerful as they could manage in those few months... So CCP, in their infinite wisdom, has taken away the exploit before it truly became one. They've pushed it further off, making it more of what THEY had intended instead of what YOU hoped it would mean for you. So, everyone can either keep whining and b!tching about how disappointed you are. Or you can appreciate the fact that you get to respec at all. CCP could have left it exactly as it has been these last few years. Until now, you were stuck with what you had, and you were thankful for the implants and skillbooks. Still want to gripe? Maybe CCP will limit it to brand new characters only. That'd be fun, eh? --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.23 02:06:00 - [20] 1 year makes more sense imo. And thb after 1 year you rrally should know what kind of attributes you want :P.

DMF KingBob	Posted - 2009.02.23 03:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Sounds to me, like a lot of folks heard "respec" and immediately assumed they could min/max their characters every few months. Hoping to dump a bunch into CHA, train up all the Leadership/Social/Trade skills... and then in a few months they could readjust and power level some other set of skills. They all made such a big uproar about how awesome it would be, and how they were all excited at the prospect of exploiting the system and getting their epeen as big and powerful as they could manage in those few months... So CCP, in their infinite wisdom, has taken away the exploit before it truly became one. They've pushed it further off, making it more of what THEY had intended instead of what YOU hoped it would mean for you. So, everyone can either keep whining and b!tching about how disappointed you are. Or you can appreciate the fact that you get to respec at all. CCP could have left it exactly as it has been these last few years. Until now, you were stuck with what you had, and you were thankful for the implants and skillbooks. Still want to gripe? Maybe CCP will limit it to brand new characters only. That'd be fun, eh? whats your problem with faster skilling ?
Cadde Gallente Gene Works AKA-AHN KINGDOM	Posted - 2009.02.23 04:37:00 - [22] I see it this way if the respecs will allow for faster skilling... CCP acknowledged that some of the endgame skills take way too long to train if you have a balanced character. (Or happened to put all into charisma when you wanted a combat pilot) So instead of reducing skill time on all skills making EvE a very non specialized game, now pilots can specialize in what they want to be if they think long term and not only get high skills in all the engineering groups of skills but also on the combat side. They have to make a choice, do they want to train lots of combat skills first or lots of engineering skills first? And over a period of TWO FRIGGIN YEARS, they will benefit from their patience. No matter how you put it, it will benefit most and unfortunately leave those with already great skills feeling left out. But in the end, it's a good thing for eve. //Cadde --------------- Opinions? Yes they belong to me, not my corp!
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.02.23 06:30:00 - [23] Originally by: DMF KingBob whats your problem with faster skilling ? I think this is completely appropriate here... ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a game of adaptation and planning. Adapt or die.
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.02.23 06:58:00 - [24] Originally by: CCP Hypnotic We should all remember, attribute respec was introduced so we could remove the assigning of attribute points from character creation. This way new players could make these choices after being properly educated about what the attributes actually do for them. The happy side effect of creating this new code and interface was that we were able to offer the feature to current players, allowing them to fix mistakes made in character creation as well as facilitating the optimization of long term skill plans. Since Sisi is an environment for us to try different options and settings we've been working on our definition of "long term." Originally it was 6 months, it is now 1 year. I'm ok with that, but has it been changed for new characters? AFAIK, new players had 2 "free" attribute changes they could do whenever they wanted. Has it been changed along with the 12 months change? ------------------------------------------
Lady KeT	Posted - 2009.02.23 22:03:00 - [25] I think that neural remapping suck badly and this patch too I have 19.80 charisma and i can't take out any point out I'm an industry caracter don't need charisma for nothing . Can some one from this 2 cents company explain how the math is working ??????? Is there any skill that is affecting neural remapping ? (so i can turn the white lines in green lines ) to take out points from attributes If i have 19.80 charisma i should be able to take out for 4 points and spend them in something else wich is very logic cause my caracter will still have plenty of charisma To many restrictions And i think that 8 months until respec will be fine for everybody
Lady KeT	Posted - 2009.02.23 22:53:00 - [26] one more thing neural remapping should not have restrictions to minum base attributes cause the skill learning(2% bonus per level to all attributes resulting in a overall faster skill training time)is changeing attributes It must be X% from your total perception for example And if the skill is restricted to 5 why the hell is not a new skill involved ??????
Anne Archer	Posted - 2009.02.24 05:58:00 - [27] Edited by: Anne Archer on 24/02/2009 05:59:07 Originally by: CCP Hypnotic facilitating the optimization of long term skill plans. Since Sisi is an environment for us to try different options and settings we've been working on our definition of "long term." Originally it was 6 months, it is now 1 year. Sorry for a game mechanic, I think 6 months IS long term skill planning. 1 year, sorry too much. This game 'for me' seems like it is starting to become more about character maintenance than playing. "Check Six"
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:03:00 - [28] 1 year sounds fine to be honest. 6 months kinda makes it feel like it's something you use tactically for your next batch of skills, whereas 1 year is more akin to "fixing what you messed up at character creation" - which is the intended use as far as I can tell.
Turix Interstellar eXodus Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Anne Archer Edited by: Anne Archer on 24/02/2009 05:59:07 Originally by: CCP Hypnotic facilitating the optimization of long term skill plans. Since Sisi is an environment for us to try different options and settings we've been working on our definition of "long term." Originally it was 6 months, it is now 1 year. Sorry for a game mechanic, I think 6 months IS long term skill planning. 1 year, sorry too much. This game 'for me' seems like it is starting to become more about character maintenance than playing. "Check Six" Go and train for something serious, like cap ships - 6 month is not long term. And my 2 cents is that 1year is perfect, 6 months was way too short it turned the system into a bit of a joke, i should just be able to change my attributes to suit my training constantly, negates the point of attributes. __________________________
Kopkiller	Posted - 2009.02.24 11:56:00 - [30] Edited by: Kopkiller on 24/02/2009 11:59:51 Phew, they found a correction to the exploit that was yet preparing to being used like a game feature: min/maw skill farmers. They were making plans yet and all how to get a 60Msp char in one year -.- Actually i think 6 months would have been counterproductive in the sense some people would have prefered abusive skill farming over pvp. Not allowing spare points under 20 though, is complete utter ****.

Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.02.24 13:16:00 - [31] Originally by: DMF KingBob Originally by: Marcus Gideon Sounds to me, like a lot of folks heard "respec" and immediately assumed they could min/max their characters every few months. Hoping to dump a bunch into CHA, train up all the Leadership/Social/Trade skills... and then in a few months they could readjust and power level some other set of skills. They all made such a big uproar about how awesome it would be, and how they were all excited at the prospect of exploiting the system and getting their epeen as big and powerful as they could manage in those few months... So CCP, in their infinite wisdom, has taken away the exploit before it truly became one. They've pushed it further off, making it more of what THEY had intended instead of what YOU hoped it would mean for you. So, everyone can either keep whining and b!tching about how disappointed you are. Or you can appreciate the fact that you get to respec at all. CCP could have left it exactly as it has been these last few years. Until now, you were stuck with what you had, and you were thankful for the implants and skillbooks. Still want to gripe? Maybe CCP will limit it to brand new characters only. That'd be fun, eh? whats your problem with faster skilling ? The problem is that it's another thing you have to do to stay where you are, relatively speaking. CCP have said that they regret introducing the learning skills, because it's the same mechanic. It's not really a choice whether you train them or not (to at least 4/3, going beyond that becomes some kind of payoff), it's not fun and it doesn't really bring anything to the game. While rapid attribute remapping wouldn't be a time sink in the same way that training learning skills is, it does devalue the point of attributes altogether in that you boost a pair of them up to 15/14 (or whatever the sensible maximum is), train the skills that use them, and then respec to the next pair of attributes. In a situation like this you may as well just remove attributes altogether and have everyone train at the same speed. Additionally, there's the issue of skill inflation - everyone would be training faster, and consequently there's no real boost in a relative sense, but you're able to get prerequisite skills done faster. Personally I don't think that would benefit EVE that much at all; the training times are good and give you something to work towards, while at the same time promoting use of "lesser" ships like T1 and letting you experience a real sense of progression. If training speed was doubled, then for most characters it would cheapen the game (except for the real new players who are still discovering, which coincidentally is exactly what is going to happen). So - there you go, I don't see any advantage to faster skilling and in the long run think that it'll only make the game more shallow. And consequently I'm glad that the respec is extremely limited in scope (6 months is too often), so that it lets you change a broad focus and correct mistakes, rather than min-maxing.
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2009.02.24 13:34:00 - [32] Originally by: Gartel Reiman Originally by: DMF KingBob Originally by: Marcus Gideon Sounds to me, like a lot of folks heard "respec" and immediately assumed they could min/max their characters every few months. Hoping to dump a bunch into CHA, train up all the Leadership/Social/Trade skills... and then in a few months they could readjust and power level some other set of skills. They all made such a big uproar about how awesome it would be, and how they were all excited at the prospect of exploiting the system and getting their epeen as big and powerful as they could manage in those few months... So CCP, in their infinite wisdom, has taken away the exploit before it truly became one. They've pushed it further off, making it more of what THEY had intended instead of what YOU hoped it would mean for you. So, everyone can either keep whining and b!tching about how disappointed you are. Or you can appreciate the fact that you get to respec at all. CCP could have left it exactly as it has been these last few years. Until now, you were stuck with what you had, and you were thankful for the implants and skillbooks. Still want to gripe? Maybe CCP will limit it to brand new characters only. That'd be fun, eh? whats your problem with faster skilling ? The problem is that it's another thing you have to do to stay where you are, relatively speaking. CCP have said that they regret introducing the learning skills, because it's the same mechanic. It's not really a choice whether you train them or not (to at least 4/3, going beyond that becomes some kind of payoff), it's not fun and it doesn't really bring anything to the game. While rapid attribute remapping wouldn't be a time sink in the same way that training learning skills is, it does devalue the point of attributes altogether in that you boost a pair of them up to 15/14 (or whatever the sensible maximum is), train the skills that use them, and then respec to the next pair of attributes. In a situation like this you may as well just remove attributes altogether and have everyone train at the same speed. Additionally, there's the issue of skill inflation - everyone would be training faster, and consequently there's no real boost in a relative sense, but you're able to get prerequisite skills done faster. Personally I don't think that would benefit EVE that much at all; the training times are good and give you something to work towards, while at the same time promoting use of "lesser" ships like T1 and letting you experience a real sense of progression. If training speed was doubled, then for most characters it would cheapen the game (except for the real new players who are still discovering, which coincidentally is exactly what is going to happen). So - there you go, I don't see any advantage to faster skilling and in the long run think that it'll only make the game more shallow. And consequently I'm glad that the respec is extremely limited in scope (6 months is too often), so that it lets you change a broad focus and correct mistakes, rather than min-maxing. so i was thinking it gives the un-dynamic skill system an little bit dynamic wich effects by the noobs maybe just in hours but by the end-players in weeks and the remap window means to me that ccp has given up the advanced and elite implants...
MatStar Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.02.24 16:01:00 - [33] slightly off topic kinda but, on the neural remap screen it says how much your implants are giving you to your attributes max+5, however on skills it goes upto 14? max you can get exluding learning skill bonus to them is +10. is there some new learning skills? i cant see any on the market
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.24 16:43:00 - [34] So CCP introduces the possibility of neutral remap after 6 years and now people are complaining that once every year is not enough... ________________ God is my Wingman
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.02.24 18:30:00 - [35] Originally by: DMF KingBob so i was thinking it gives the un-dynamic skill system an little bit dynamic wich effects by the noobs maybe just in hours but by the end-players in weeks I'm not sure how you see training faster as increasing or decreasing the level of dynamism in the skill system. In fact if anything it decreases it - with frequent remapping possibilities, one would lose out a lot more from a quick switch to something that just came up (e.g. corp just got wardecced, quickly spend a few days training ECM skills and Caldari Cruiser in order to give support in Blackbird). Currently people usually have their attributes fairly even, meaning that putting your current skill plan on hold for a bit and switching doesn't really mean you lose out that much. However, if you were currently min-maxing some Int-Mem skills, and the situation presented itself where it would really benefit your corp to train some Per-Wil (spaceship command) skills, you'd be a lot more reticent to switch with the horrible training speed you'd get. I don't know if you remember what it was like training learning skills back when you were starting, but that's a similar situation. While there are skills you could train to benefit you now, it's inefficient to do so and the optimal solution in the mid-long term is to finish training the learning skills and then train some actually useful skills. With rapid respecs leading to min-maxing of attributes, we basically get this situation constantly. If you have maximum values in two attributes and minimum values in the others, you have more or less committed yourself to only training those attribute-specific skills, or taking a horrendous efficiency hit that many will shy away from. Obviously the solution to this is to have the attributes evenly distributed as they are now - even with the remap option. However, as the remapping frequency increases, the penalties in terms of loss of flexibility decrease while the rewards increase (more and more feasible to come up with a sensible plan training just those attributes' skills for that amount of time without resorting to training long skills for the sake of it). And in an environment where almost everyone will be taking advantage of the situation, you have two choices: either to train at a notably slower speed than everyone else, or to give up the flexibility of being able to pick up quick new unplanned skills as the need dictates. Now I know that EVE is all about choices and this could be portrayed as yet another choice to make; but I don't think this particular one would be good game design. Giving up a ~30% increase in training speed for some hypothetical situation that might make you want to train something else isn't really an option, you'd be quite silly to take the latter really. Consequently it effectively locks people into attribute paired skill training and thus decreases the dynamic nature of skill training progression. And this is in addition to faster training in general being an undesirable thing, as I mentioned above. Quote: and the remap window means to me that ccp has given up the advanced and elite implants... I expect they gave up on those years ago. Besides, I can't see what problem it would solve introducing them or how it would benefit the game (same issue as faster training in general really).
Bacabachaui Two Brothers Mining Corp.	Posted - 2009.02.24 18:49:00 - [36] 1 year is just fine, maybe even too often imo. It is just supposed to be a chance to do what you would have done in the first place if you knew then what you know now. When you start playing Eve you don't even know what you don't know you needed to know-but yet you still make some of the most important decisions about your character anyway. By the time you realize what you're doing, you have invested way to much time in your character to start over. So 1 time is fine as far as I am concerned. The only good decision I feel I made and that I would never change was to be Gallente! :) It should be restricted to characters 6 months or older so they have to wait until they know what they are doing, then 1 change after that for the life of the character.
VoiceInTheDesert Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.02.24 19:07:00 - [37] 1 year is so much better than 6 months, I'm not sure I can even put it into words here. 6 months was going to result in spamming the ability to max out skills for 6 months, switch, max out, switch, rinse repeate. It would have effectively given everyone the same damn stat line (give or take a point or two for imps depending on how rich you are). They are already completely obliterating the reason to choose any given race/bloodline with the new skill and remap rules as it is...at least with it at one year cool down, it will force people to actually choose something and deal with it instead of just letting them put 40 in two attribute types every 6 months.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.02.24 19:07:00 - [38] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 24/02/2009 19:10:08 Originally by: Venatoris Portucalis Edited by: Venatoris Portucalis on 22/02/2009 22:07:31 Tbh, 6 Months sounded like a perfect time, long enought so u dont tend to switch on a whim, and short enought so u can adapt and take the most advantage on your skill plan. 1 year was way too long IMHO. That was the idea... It's nice right now that a lot of us don't even have to think about attribs except sticking implants in now and then. I doubt too many older players want to have to start playing stupid min/maxing games out of remaining competitive because you can effectivly double your skill training time if done correctly.
Jaina Proudmoar Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.02.24 19:20:00 - [39] Originally by: CCP Hypnotic Originally by: DMF KingBob Originally by: Furb Killer The idea behind neural remapping isn't that you can train your skills faster without downsides. for what is it then ? We should all remember, attribute respec was introduced so we could remove the assigning of attribute points from character creation. This way new players could make these choices after being properly educated about what the attributes actually do for them. The happy side effect of creating this new code and interface was that we were able to offer the feature to current players, allowing them to fix mistakes made in character creation as well as facilitating the optimization of long term skill plans. Since Sisi is an environment for us to try different options and settings we've been working on our definition of "long term." Originally it was 6 months, it is now 1 year. "fix mistakes made in character creation" - you need one chance for this. "facilitating the optimization of long term skill plans" - why?
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.02.24 20:21:00 - [40] Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar "facilitating the optimization of long term skill plans" - why? because keeping EXISTING customers happy when they realise that the stat build they have is now sub optimal a year or more into the game due to a change in how they play or changes made to the game by the developers introducine something new to the game > trying to convince new people to play the game. Or in other words, its a once a year deal. Given EvE subscriber turnover (~ 8 months is the average subscription lenght) the odds are you will not be playing EvE a year from now anyway So why the hell are you worried about it? **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.

Erika Bronz Gallente The Wyld Hunt	Posted - 2009.02.26 15:27:00 - [41] If this remapping is redistributing those few points in character creation every once in a year, I don't like it. They should rather call it character evolving, and let you change attribute points from your base stats every now and then, with unlimited longterm result. Say, 1 point every 6 or 12 month sounds nice. Of course I can foresee that some combat pilots will remove their base charisma all together, but it's rather natural that all the fighting will harden a man and weaken his abilities to train social skills, and vica verca.
Arren Lark	Posted - 2009.02.26 17:46:00 - [42] Originally by: MatStar slightly off topic kinda but, on the neural remap screen it says how much your implants are giving you to your attributes max+5, however on skills it goes upto 14? max you can get exluding learning skill bonus to them is +10. is there some new learning skills? i cant see any on the market I was curious about this as well, though the maximum is actually 13 from skills (15 base + 5 implants + 10 stat learning skills = 30, 10% learning 5 bonus = 3, hence 13 points from skills) But 14? Where are we gonna get 10 new points from? Base increase? +15 implants? Implementer can't count?
Flinchey Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.26 18:12:00 - [43] 12 months is quite fine by me i set up a skill plan that i actually wanted for the next 12 months i went from 340 days to 250... really... having a respec every 6 months would just make things stupid... you'd have virtually halved training times accross the board.
Imertu Solientai	Posted - 2009.02.26 21:03:00 - [44] Originally by: An Anarchyyt "Hey you should give us attribute remapping" "Now that you're giving it to us, it is way too long. Give it to me so I can do it every day." "Oh look, a thread" "Hey, now that I've read the thread and don't have anything constructive to post I'll just troll it."
Solomon XI Kult of Kaos R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.27 00:20:00 - [45] Just my two-cents: I liked the whole six month attribute re-spec. As most plans I have are four-to-six months in length. The one year per re-spec is a tad excessive. Six months was by far, better.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.27 00:56:00 - [46] Originally by: Imertu Solientai Originally by: An Anarchyyt "Hey you should give us attribute remapping" "Now that you're giving it to us, it is way too long. Give it to me so I can do it every day." "Oh look, a thread" "Hey, now that I've read the thread and don't have anything constructive to post I'll just troll it." "Oh look, a post" "Hey, now that I've read the post and don't have anything constructive to post I'll just troll it." Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.02.27 01:23:00 - [47] I would have been happy with a single respec for each char....but once a year is not a bad compromise. Its long enough that will keep most chars, at least mains, from min/maxing so they can retain at least some flexibility. Although I will point out that once your char is old enough, you can easily fill a year with just per/will skills and not have to worry too much, since you have all the other skills you need all done....and you are just topping off some b!ching lvl5s. Originally by: CCP Whisper No it is not an official statement. Not everything surrounded by blue bars is an official statement which can be quoted as fact until the end of time. Deal with it.
Flinchey Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.27 07:36:00 - [48] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Imertu Solientai Originally by: An Anarchyyt "Hey you should give us attribute remapping" "Now that you're giving it to us, it is way too long. Give it to me so I can do it every day." "Oh look, a thread" "Hey, now that I've read the thread and don't have anything constructive to post I'll just troll it." "Oh look, a post" "Hey, now that I've read the post and don't have anything constructive to post I'll just troll it." THEY SEE ME TROLLIN' inbe4 troll post of a troll post. /back on topic guys, come on, this is a good topic, dont kill it.
Hobgoblin ll	Posted - 2009.02.27 08:20:00 - [49] People should pay a PLEX for remapping.
Candace Wolf	Posted - 2009.02.28 07:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Steve Thomas Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar "facilitating the optimization of long term skill plans" - why? because keeping EXISTING customers happy when they realise that the stat build they have is now sub optimal a year or more into the game due to a change in how they play or changes made to the game by the developers introducine something new to the game > trying to convince new people to play the game. Or in other words, its a once a year deal. Given EvE subscriber turnover (~ 8 months is the average subscription lenght) the odds are you will not be playing EvE a year from now anyway So why the hell are you worried about it? Exactly.. this char here was created as a leadership character.. but now in a few days i have Wing Command 5 and i want her to be more than just the char sitting in a pos and having 7 mods running.. and because i have overdone it, her perception sucks.. i thought about selling her.. but i love her somehow :P Now with the respec i can finally make a balanced char out of her and have a little bit of fun for my 15 euros / month

Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.28 07:44:00 - [51] Originally by: Arren Lark Originally by: MatStar slightly off topic kinda but, on the neural remap screen it says how much your implants are giving you to your attributes max+5, however on skills it goes upto 14? max you can get exluding learning skill bonus to them is +10. is there some new learning skills? i cant see any on the market I was curious about this as well, though the maximum is actually 13 from skills (15 base + 5 implants + 10 stat learning skills = 30, 10% learning 5 bonus = 3, hence 13 points from skills) But 14? Where are we gonna get 10 new points from? Base increase? +15 implants? Implementer can't count? if i rember you could made amarr amarr with 16 base will
James Duar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.28 09:12:00 - [52] 6 month respecs seemed better then yearly to me, and from the new player experience perspective they make a hell of a lot more sense - if you're average burn out time is 8 months, then giving people an opportunity to correct defects in their character creation 6 months in seems like it might hit right about the time those 30+ day skill trains start to dominate and help with the burn out (by letting them say, get out of mining and into combat ships - the mistake so many of us made).
Candace Wolf	Posted - 2009.02.28 10:17:00 - [53] Yeah.. 6 months sounded great..
Lady d'Lay Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.02.28 11:39:00 - [54] Originally by: DeadDuck So CCP introduces the possibility of neutral remap after 6 years and now people are complaining that once every year is not enough... Yep, I am also "impressed" about the level of greedyness and ignorance. 1st there was nothing compareable. Now CCP allows for slight adjustments once a year, which is great ! And people are still moaning. Guys, come on, this is no "fast food game" like in other games where you play 10h a day and reach the last level after 1 year. And this new feature is not intended to be a general multi purpose skill training booster.
Suga H Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.02.28 19:20:00 - [55] I'd be really happy with some sort of SP based time limit. Say, for someone <500k SP, a month until next remap. 500k-1m, 3 months. 1m-2m, 6 months. 2-4m a year. 4-10m 2 years. >10m 5 years. Gives new chars more flexibility, takes away from skill farming later on. Personally, at 30m sp, I would be completely happy with a single remap, and would only use more remaps for sp farming. But a year until your next remap seems a bit harsh to those that are just getting into the game. Also maybe make the remap cost as much sp as you have, or free. Having it cost 5m would be harsh on a new char, but is reasonably/cheap for someone playing for 6 months.
Ravenal The Fated E.Y	Posted - 2009.02.28 20:52:00 - [56] right, awesome feature - but 1 year instead of 6 months remap timer has two problems: 1. The average playing time of people in eve is less than 1 year (old stats, might have changed). 2. 1 year remap is actually better for older player than younger players. Why? Because older players already have the "support" skills pretty much trained out meaning they can max the attribs required for specialization. For example - I've finished all my cap, armor and shield skills and can now just max perc/will and go for all the ships, missiles and guns without having to look back. As a "means" to fixing old attribute assignment mistakes - it also gives training time bonus to older players over younger players. Fix suggestion: Allow less skilled players to remap more frequently. More skillpoints means its more difficult to remap, it'd be like the jump timer that takes the number of skillpoints into consideration when counting down to the next remap. .
Barkaial Starfinder Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.03.01 00:41:00 - [57] 1 year cooldown is good to prevent the "optimal" plans you guys are thinking. 6 months would make it too easy to have max attributes all the time.
Rhohan Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.01 02:13:00 - [58] The purpose of the remap should not be to maximize your training for any char. It is meant to either correct errors made during creation(new chars) or to change professions(older chars). Once per 6 mo is too quick, once per 1 yr might be ok, once per 2 yr is probably too long.
James Duar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.01 02:46:00 - [59] Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder 1 year cooldown is good to prevent the "optimal" plans you guys are thinking. 6 months would make it too easy to have max attributes all the time. I don't really see a problem with people having max attributes all the time. This is what people should have, and a lot of us have min/maxed alts for exactly this reason. Not allowing more frequent remaps hurts newbies a hell of a lot more, and well, they're more important really. The point is, over the 6 months you min/max, you're going to be punished for training outside what you've chosen to do and there's no ship in EVE which solely needs Per/Will to fly effectively.
Dreamwalker	Posted - 2009.03.02 06:56:00 - [60] Originally by: CCP Hypnotic We should all remember, attribute respec was introduced so we could remove the assigning of attribute points from character creation. we've been working on our definition of "long term." Originally it was 6 months, it is now 1 year. Thank you for letting me fix my starting mistake from over 4 years ago. And thank you for letting me fix some of my other mistakes from over 2 years ago. I don't care if its a one time thing or it takes a year, just to be able to fix it without having to reroll a char that is years(more than one) is good enough for me. Originally by: CCP Whisper Local chat in known 0.0, low sec and empire space will remain as it is today, in all it's insta-intel giving, afk cloaker panic inducing, jita trade spamming glory.

FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.03.02 13:08:00 - [61] Originally by: Lady d'Lay Originally by: DeadDuck So CCP introduces the possibility of neutral remap after 6 years and now people are complaining that once every year is not enough... Yep, I am also "impressed" about the level of greedyness and ignorance. 1st there was nothing compareable. Now CCP allows for slight adjustments once a year, which is great ! And people are still moaning. Guys, come on, this is no "fast food game" like in other games where you play 10h a day and reach the last level after 1 year. And this new feature is not intended to be a general multi purpose skill training booster. Amen to that. CCP give an inch and people demand a mile. Same with the skill queue, after 6 years CCP decide to implement one, and people are emoragequitting over the fact they've only introduced a 24h queue. What I do the rest of the time
Gromilia	Posted - 2009.03.02 13:51:00 - [62] Quote: Amen to that. CCP give an inch and people demand a mile. Same with the skill queue, after 6 years CCP decide to implement one, and people are emoragequitting over the fact they've only introduced a 24h queue. I agree with this comment, There are alot people who complain what CCP dose well if you cannot handle this game please look for another game to play. If you still want to play EVE-ONLINE please let the DEVS finish the project what they are working this new patch which is coming out the 10th of March 2009. And stop winging about this and that.
Dogfighter	Posted - 2009.03.02 15:41:00 - [63] Originally by: CCP Hypnotic Originally by: DMF KingBob Originally by: Furb Killer The idea behind neural remapping isn't that you can train your skills faster without downsides. for what is it then ? We should all remember, attribute respec was introduced so we could remove the assigning of attribute points from character creation. This way new players could make these choices after being properly educated about what the attributes actually do for them. The happy side effect of creating this new code and interface was that we were able to offer the feature to current players, allowing them to fix mistakes made in character creation as well as facilitating the optimization of long term skill plans. Since Sisi is an environment for us to try different options and settings we've been working on our definition of "long term." Originally it was 6 months, it is now 1 year. 1 year ?!? Too long... please reconsider. 6 months was ok...
Ravenal The Fated E.Y	Posted - 2009.03.02 16:04:00 - [64] meh, decided my previous point that 1 year favors high sp characters over new players is moot because no matter which mechanic will be used will always favor some "negative" aspect of skill training. Maximizing only for new players that are not alts and are not buying characters is simply not possible without giving greater benefits for other player groups. so, best "solution" is 1 year. Same with the 24h queue, it perfectly solves the annoying problem of lvl3 and almost finished skills. its perfect like it is planned to be now. .
Arcana Demura Caldari Free Collective Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:24:00 - [65] While yes, any remap is better than none, what people are complaining about is that it could be so much more. Much like BlackOps, this is coming out pre-nerfed. 6 months was useful, but still too long. If there is a time limit on remaps, it should be at most a day, ideally it would be whenever you felt like paying the 5mil isk.
Cadde Gallente Gene Works AKA-AHN KINGDOM	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:06:00 - [66] Don't forget, eve isn't just about what skills you are training. You should play the actual game too! It's the same for everybody except the new players who get 2 for free but it will not change the core aspect of the game which is FIGHTING, TRADING, MINING, EXPLORING and FORUM TROLLING. The only thing CCP has changed is the time it would take some players to get "there" faster. After all, we all want to have that skill sooner rather than later. Would you guys prefer that CCP released the ELITE implants in the LP stores and had officer spawns drop +10 implants? I think CCP themselves thought most players drop for various reasons including: 1) Training to the next ship+support skills takes far too long for them, they get bored to fast. 2) Players realize their 10 base charisma guy was a big mistake when they learned that trading/leadership/corporation management wasn't for them. 3) Players realized that to be able to build supercapitals required them to be part of 0.0 space which would seem impossible for them at this time, they decide to go do some combat and find it takes them 2 years to fly the capitals they build. Emoragequit. The list goes on, all because training a skill with 5 in the primary attribute and 5 in the secondary attribute for base stats leaves them with the feeling: "I don't want to do this, it takes too long. I better quit sooner than later" My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
Night Doc Orekaria	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:09:00 - [67] -- "One year is not too long" -- Guys, do I have to remember you that we ONLY have 80 or 90 of those things average in our life? and from those, only 40 or 50 years real effective?. Just, do not underestimate the REAL value of time because of the EVE virtual time. - Target analysis - Fit EVE to screen - EFT setup sort
Night Doc Orekaria	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:31:00 - [68] And Hypnotic?, by the way... all this changes in the EVE customer-CCP sadomaso relationship (kill ghost training, new player experience with 50k sp, respecing the attributes, sp queue, new skils with sp lost in pvp combat,...), lead to - full skill point respecing??? - effective multicharacter account as in all other MMORPG??? - Target analysis - Fit EVE to screen - EFT setup sort
JackofWarr	Posted - 2009.03.04 10:42:00 - [69] Dose anyone know if we can take everything off and just put everything where we want? Also ppl i been playing since 06. they come out with remapping and skilling que ( CCP finally and Thank you very much) Please stop complaining. Ppl have lives so finally CCP is working with us. Remapping is just gonna be a nice bonus remapping training all ur skilsl to 5 then just one year later u can remap again, if u think about it one year isnt too long. Let the devo team do there job. and i migth add they are doing a great job besides letting those pirates salvage out wreck for free and make millions :P Laters.
Kifor Hellhund	Posted - 2009.03.06 17:55:00 - [70] Edited by: Kifor Hellhund on 06/03/2009 17:56:38 How are remaps tracked? For example If I create a new character with 2 remaps, after one year does he go to 3 remaps then 4 in the next if I haven't used any? Essentially giving me the option to remap every 6 months for 2 years. Suppose I remap 6 months after the patch, will I have to then wait 12 months or will the timer tick after 6 more months?

Thresh Avery Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.07 06:56:00 - [71] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Sounds to me, like a lot of folks heard "respec" and immediately assumed they could min/max their characters every few months. Hoping to dump a bunch into CHA, train up all the Leadership/Social/Trade skills... and then in a few months they could readjust and power level some other set of skills. They all made such a big uproar about how awesome it would be, and how they were all excited at the prospect of exploiting the system and getting their epeen as big and powerful as they could manage in those few months... So CCP, in their infinite wisdom, has taken away the exploit before it truly became one. They've pushed it further off, making it more of what THEY had intended instead of what YOU hoped it would mean for you. So, everyone can either keep whining and b!tching about how disappointed you are. Or you can appreciate the fact that you get to respec at all. CCP could have left it exactly as it has been these last few years. Until now, you were stuck with what you had, and you were thankful for the implants and skillbooks. Still want to gripe? Maybe CCP will limit it to brand new characters only. That'd be fun, eh? Well said - i couldn't agree more. I was hoping to benefit from the respec too though, and max out my attributes and ride the wave, and was disappointed when i heard it dropped to 1 year. But i can appreciate why it's neccessary and am actually quite glad about it. What i am concerned about is that EVE is a game becoming more and more populated by alts. So with the limit being a year (or even the respec available at all) it means that people with 2+ accounts can maximize their atts and specialize their training more easily than a one account player, who has to be self-sufficient. Alts already had the benefit of being able to specialize by being an alt, and now they get further assistance with it. I can't believe i'm going to say this, (and as CCP listen to us but won't be swayed by minority whiners) for the record, restrict it to new players!
Thresh Avery Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.07 07:05:00 - [72] Originally by: Kifor Hellhund Edited by: Kifor Hellhund on 06/03/2009 17:56:38 How are remaps tracked? For example If I create a new character with 2 remaps, after one year does he go to 3 remaps then 4 in the next if I haven't used any? Essentially giving me the option to remap every 6 months for 2 years. Suppose I remap 6 months after the patch, will I have to then wait 12 months or will the timer tick after 6 more months? Kifor, i would imagine it's a remap once a year, no matter how long it takes you to decide to do it. Think of it working the same as jump clones. You could remap for the first time ever on 24th November 2009, then the next time will be the 24th November 2010, but only if you choose to do it. If you wait until longer, it will be longer till you can do it again, but it will only ever be 1 year. :)
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.07 07:43:00 - [73] 1 year benefits old players like these training capships. but new players needs balanced stats becouse of higher difrences in skills to trian. 60D GTC - shattared link
Inflationem Faba	Posted - 2009.03.09 19:01:00 - [74] 1 year between remappings really should be enough. make them too frequent and it virtually removes the concept of even having attributes. Something I would have rather seen, though, is maybe a 1 time attribute remapping and then a bench mark PARTIAL SP remapping (like once every 10M sp). All of us older players have all trained skills that looked fun at the time and turned out to be skills we rarely ever used again. Would be nice to be able to remap maybe 5% SP, something like that.


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