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Interceptor insurance fix doesn't seem to be a high priority to fix

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Feyd Darkholme	Posted - 2004.08.11 08:53:00 - [31] It doesn't matter one iota if I could make 1 billion ISK an hour, it's still FUBAR. The fact of the matter is, ship insurance was implimented so that if you lost your ship, you would be able to recover at least the cost of the ship (not including installed modules which can also cost in the tens of millions of ISK). With Tech II player made items this system doesn't work, because prices are 100% controlled by human greed. Whether it's the cost of the ores, Tech II parts or the final product, the end result is the same. If they aren't going to impliment it correctly for everything, then they should just completely remove ship insurance. The only solution that I can think of is to make an actual fair way to research and develop Tech II products to create real competition and drive the prices down on everything. Either that or have a secondary NPC market for Tech II stuff. As it is, R&D and Tech II manufacturing is a cruel joke. I know this is a mainly PvP combat oriented game, but if you're going to have R&D and manufacturing in the game too it should be fair to everyone that wants to put the time and work in to do it, not some half arsed lottery system based on non-existant random number generators and driven by human greed... Other games have done it this way and it doesn't work. You'd think game developers would learn. ---------------
Feyd Darkholme	Posted - 2004.08.11 08:53:00 - [32] It doesn't matter one iota if I could make 1 billion ISK an hour, it's still FUBAR. The fact of the matter is, ship insurance was implimented so that if you lost your ship, you would be able to recover at least the cost of the ship (not including installed modules which can also cost in the tens of millions of ISK). With Tech II player made items this system doesn't work, because prices are 100% controlled by human greed. Whether it's the cost of the ores, Tech II parts or the final product, the end result is the same. If they aren't going to impliment it correctly for everything, then they should just completely remove ship insurance. The only solution that I can think of is to make an actual fair way to research and develop Tech II products to create real competition and drive the prices down on everything. Either that or have a secondary NPC market for Tech II stuff. As it is, R&D and Tech II manufacturing is a cruel joke. I know this is a mainly PvP combat oriented game, but if you're going to have R&D and manufacturing in the game too it should be fair to everyone that wants to put the time and work in to do it, not some half arsed lottery system based on non-existant random number generators and driven by human greed... Other games have done it this way and it doesn't work. You'd think game developers would learn. ---------------
Miso	Posted - 2004.08.11 09:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Rod Blaine Damn, who cares ? Anyone with the skills to fly inty either has or can make the cost of one in an hour or has a main which can. Sure it needs a fixxy, but its not urgent. eeek! I takes me a month to make the price of 1 inty. Thats why I fly rifters. I don't understand why people are paying these ridiculous prices for them to start with. They aren't that great a ship. They are fun to fly, but not 10m's worth of fun. -------------------------------------------- Dead
Miso	Posted - 2004.08.11 09:08:00 - [34] Originally by: Rod Blaine Damn, who cares ? Anyone with the skills to fly inty either has or can make the cost of one in an hour or has a main which can. Sure it needs a fixxy, but its not urgent. eeek! I takes me a month to make the price of 1 inty. Thats why I fly rifters. I don't understand why people are paying these ridiculous prices for them to start with. They aren't that great a ship. They are fun to fly, but not 10m's worth of fun. -------------------------------------------- Dead
Hyey	Posted - 2004.08.11 09:49:00 - [35] Sure Inty's are worth 10m isk of fun, the stuff you can do in an interceptor only because of the increased HP is incredable. But on another note, yes the insurance is not the real problem, its the people who are making the ships and the people hording the tech 2 components. Dont blame it on the insurance its the people that are at fault here. (I personally use rifters, and Ive been blown up in them oh so many times :p) ~~ Hyey I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
Hyey	Posted - 2004.08.11 09:49:00 - [36] Sure Inty's are worth 10m isk of fun, the stuff you can do in an interceptor only because of the increased HP is incredable. But on another note, yes the insurance is not the real problem, its the people who are making the ships and the people hording the tech 2 components. Dont blame it on the insurance its the people that are at fault here. (I personally use rifters, and Ive been blown up in them oh so many times :p) ~~ Hyey I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
Miso	Posted - 2004.08.11 10:07:00 - [37] Well, its not that hard to kill an inty in a rifter. I've kiled a fair few 1v1, unless all I've fought is a succession of pvp noobs, as, apparently, I do suck at PvP. 200k versus 10m, for the same firepower, but less HP, I'll take the 200k. When intys retail for 1m, then they'll start being economically viable for people that PvP full time. Then again, I suppose the old adage of "only fly what you can afford to lose" applies. Which is exactly what I do. I used to like intys alot, now I'm back in a rifter, intys aren'y looking so hot. Maybe its just me. -------------------------------------------- Dead
Miso	Posted - 2004.08.11 10:07:00 - [38] Well, its not that hard to kill an inty in a rifter. I've kiled a fair few 1v1, unless all I've fought is a succession of pvp noobs, as, apparently, I do suck at PvP. 200k versus 10m, for the same firepower, but less HP, I'll take the 200k. When intys retail for 1m, then they'll start being economically viable for people that PvP full time. Then again, I suppose the old adage of "only fly what you can afford to lose" applies. Which is exactly what I do. I used to like intys alot, now I'm back in a rifter, intys aren'y looking so hot. Maybe its just me. -------------------------------------------- Dead
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2004.08.11 10:21:00 - [39] Hmm, I agree to some extent Miso. tho not rifter can hope to match the firepower of an inty with the inty bonusses into play. I pointed out the relative ease with which isk is made for replacement to make a point about this problem not being priority 1 in my book. I'm not saying there is no problem. On the other hand, the inty seems like a good ship to start the reduction of insurance coverage to somewhat lower levels. The equipment on it doesnt cost much anyway. Oh, and Miso. If 10 million takes you a month you are in need of a sponsor baby _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2004.08.11 10:21:00 - [40] Hmm, I agree to some extent Miso. tho not rifter can hope to match the firepower of an inty with the inty bonusses into play. I pointed out the relative ease with which isk is made for replacement to make a point about this problem not being priority 1 in my book. I'm not saying there is no problem. On the other hand, the inty seems like a good ship to start the reduction of insurance coverage to somewhat lower levels. The equipment on it doesnt cost much anyway. Oh, and Miso. If 10 million takes you a month you are in need of a sponsor baby _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Alexis Machine	Posted - 2004.08.11 10:27:00 - [41] pft. Get rid of insurance all togeather. ----------------sig---------------------------- Dtai'kai'-dte sa-de nau'gkon dtain'aun bpi-de. if you don't wake up, i'll have to stop kissing you. all that flailing has made you sleepy. you rest while i untie you. stay here until they find you. My hand made mannequin. i won't let them get you. they'll know you're mine by the fingerprints on your throat. isn't she lovely? isn't she wonderful? like the *****s that we are, swatting flies from the wounds we design.
Alexis Machine	Posted - 2004.08.11 10:27:00 - [42] pft. Get rid of insurance all togeather. ----------------sig---------------------------- Dtai'kai'-dte sa-de nau'gkon dtain'aun bpi-de. if you don't wake up, i'll have to stop kissing you. all that flailing has made you sleepy. you rest while i untie you. stay here until they find you. My hand made mannequin. i won't let them get you. they'll know you're mine by the fingerprints on your throat. isn't she lovely? isn't she wonderful? like the *****s that we are, swatting flies from the wounds we design.
Miso	Posted - 2004.08.11 10:34:00 - [43] Originally by: Rod Blaine Oh, and Miso. If 10 million takes you a month you are in need of a sponsor baby Yeah, Maud sponsored me recently. I am probably one of the worst people in Eve at making money, but its not something that has ever bothered me. I live within my means, which means for me, flying frigates. The thing that really costs me is clone costs. It takes me about a week to earn a new clone in isk. And yeah, perhaps getting rid of insurance altogether is the best option. Although all the BS pilots would cry about that. Can't please everyone I guess. -------------------------------------------- Dead
Miso	Posted - 2004.08.11 10:34:00 - [44] Originally by: Rod Blaine Oh, and Miso. If 10 million takes you a month you are in need of a sponsor baby Yeah, Maud sponsored me recently. I am probably one of the worst people in Eve at making money, but its not something that has ever bothered me. I live within my means, which means for me, flying frigates. The thing that really costs me is clone costs. It takes me about a week to earn a new clone in isk. And yeah, perhaps getting rid of insurance altogether is the best option. Although all the BS pilots would cry about that. Can't please everyone I guess. -------------------------------------------- Dead
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.08.11 10:45:00 - [45] I came back to this game about 1 month ago... I decided the first thing I'd do is train up for inty and not even train for Minmatar Cruiser... I was all set to buy my first Inty when a corpmate told me not to bother because of the insurance bug... I trained for cruiser the next day. I won't even buy an Inty until they fix this bogus setup. This cannot be how the DEV's intended it to work, if it is, they are even more stupid than I thought. And for those of you who think it's "fun" this way, buzz off... I'm a part time player and can't afford to replace an Inty once a week... I won't fly them until this bug is fixed... Yet another way CCP has made this game less fun for me, I was really looking forward to flying one... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.08.11 10:45:00 - [46] I came back to this game about 1 month ago... I decided the first thing I'd do is train up for inty and not even train for Minmatar Cruiser... I was all set to buy my first Inty when a corpmate told me not to bother because of the insurance bug... I trained for cruiser the next day. I won't even buy an Inty until they fix this bogus setup. This cannot be how the DEV's intended it to work, if it is, they are even more stupid than I thought. And for those of you who think it's "fun" this way, buzz off... I'm a part time player and can't afford to replace an Inty once a week... I won't fly them until this bug is fixed... Yet another way CCP has made this game less fun for me, I was really looking forward to flying one... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
mightygrm	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:08:00 - [47] you people don't get it, do you. the insurance cost for all ships is based on what it takes to create, not how much people sell it for. If it was based on that then people would make them, insure them and get back more than they paid for, plain and simple. If you have some genious idea of how you could increase insurance on them without allowing this loophole please speak up otherwise I'd suggest you to stop whining.
mightygrm	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:08:00 - [48] you people don't get it, do you. the insurance cost for all ships is based on what it takes to create, not how much people sell it for. If it was based on that then people would make them, insure them and get back more than they paid for, plain and simple. If you have some genious idea of how you could increase insurance on them without allowing this loophole please speak up otherwise I'd suggest you to stop whining.
Shiakarma	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:28:00 - [49] Originally by: mightygrm If you have some genious idea of how you could increase insurance on them without allowing this loophole please speak up otherwise I'd suggest you to stop whining. Erm how about they set the insurance payout at the amount you paid for it? That way you get back what you paid if you leave the station and decide to blow it up If you acquire one in another way (purchase from your corp/mate or find one empty) thereÆs one fixed price based on roughly what it costs to make one. Job done. Computer games don't affect children. If PacMan had affected us as kids then we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
Shiakarma	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:28:00 - [50] Originally by: mightygrm If you have some genious idea of how you could increase insurance on them without allowing this loophole please speak up otherwise I'd suggest you to stop whining. Erm how about they set the insurance payout at the amount you paid for it? That way you get back what you paid if you leave the station and decide to blow it up If you acquire one in another way (purchase from your corp/mate or find one empty) thereÆs one fixed price based on roughly what it costs to make one. Job done. Computer games don't affect children. If PacMan had affected us as kids then we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
DedGuy	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:36:00 - [51] Interceptors? Pah 500k payout on 100% for my buzzard..... Rumors of my clones death are greatly exaggerated. But I am still INACTIVE Millennium Elder
DedGuy	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:36:00 - [52] Interceptors? Pah 500k payout on 100% for my buzzard..... Rumors of my clones death are greatly exaggerated. But I am still INACTIVE Millennium Elder
Leonstein	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:37:00 - [53] Ceptors are Tech II, i.e new grade technology... Yes they cost alot and yes they cant be insured for much, but then modules of Tech II and other rare items only mere % better than a lower counterpart sell for magnitudes of the original price. Simply put the situation is complicated but if you want that extra edge you have to lose that extra cash... The problem is not the insurance but as stated market price, if the price of BS's jack-knifed up to 200mil then the Insurance would stay the same, but BS supply is wide spread thus the price doesnt go up too much. Supply is the problem not insurance...oh and supply is affected by demand so don't blame CCP but the mass of people demanding Ceptors for up to 15mil... Long Fang Armaments --- Extreme Pain...Express Delivery
Leonstein	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:37:00 - [54] Ceptors are Tech II, i.e new grade technology... Yes they cost alot and yes they cant be insured for much, but then modules of Tech II and other rare items only mere % better than a lower counterpart sell for magnitudes of the original price. Simply put the situation is complicated but if you want that extra edge you have to lose that extra cash... The problem is not the insurance but as stated market price, if the price of BS's jack-knifed up to 200mil then the Insurance would stay the same, but BS supply is wide spread thus the price doesnt go up too much. Supply is the problem not insurance...oh and supply is affected by demand so don't blame CCP but the mass of people demanding Ceptors for up to 15mil... Long Fang Armaments --- Extreme Pain...Express Delivery
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:38:00 - [55] Originally by: Shiakarma Originally by: mightygrm If you have some genious idea of how you could increase insurance on them without allowing this loophole please speak up otherwise I'd suggest you to stop whining. Erm how about they set the insurance payout at the amount you paid for it? That way you get back what you paid if you leave the station and decide to blow it up If you acquire one in another way (purchase from your corp/mate or find one empty) thereÆs one fixed price based on roughly what it costs to make one. Job done. So you pay 15 million for one and then pay 15 million to insure it thats a total of 30 million with a 15 million return so you pay 15 million anyway!! So why not just leave it uninsured? Leave the insurance as it is on them, if you can afford to fly one and risk losing the isk but gaining the benefits(and yes there are plenty or the issues like this wouldn't come up)then so be it. Adds for a whole lot more diverse market and combat as they have become a type of ship that is not just thrown into the mix as with most other small ships. ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Shiakarma Originally by: mightygrm If you have some genious idea of how you could increase insurance on them without allowing this loophole please speak up otherwise I'd suggest you to stop whining. Erm how about they set the insurance payout at the amount you paid for it? That way you get back what you paid if you leave the station and decide to blow it up If you acquire one in another way (purchase from your corp/mate or find one empty) thereÆs one fixed price based on roughly what it costs to make one. Job done. So you pay 15 million for one and then pay 15 million to insure it thats a total of 30 million with a 15 million return so you pay 15 million anyway!! So why not just leave it uninsured? Leave the insurance as it is on them, if you can afford to fly one and risk losing the isk but gaining the benefits(and yes there are plenty or the issues like this wouldn't come up)then so be it. Adds for a whole lot more diverse market and combat as they have become a type of ship that is not just thrown into the mix as with most other small ships. ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:41:00 - [57] Its not possible to fix interceptor insurance. I posted this on the ships and modules so ill keep it short here: Pop quiz: You are willing to pay 6 million in lost isk to fly an interceptor to destruction. If suddenly you get +10 million for just destroying said interceptor how much then are you willing to pay for the interceptor? 16 million is the price your going to end up paying... You certainly cant say less then 10 cause the manufacturer would just insure it and blow it up. And if you think your getting it for 11 million your just going to find out that there is someone that is willing to loose 2 million after insurance we know that because before there were people willing to pay 6 million above and beyond insurance. And that person is going to find that those people willing to pay 6 million above insurance still exist even after insurance is raised to 10 million profit. Just like before. And lastly let me note that the more insurance pays out the more people are induced to build interceptors cause of the amount of isk generated per an interceptor destruction. But the tech2 components to produce interceptors that get funneled to interceptors and not other things will make other things in the universe cost more via opportunity cost.
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2004.08.11 11:41:00 - [58] Its not possible to fix interceptor insurance. I posted this on the ships and modules so ill keep it short here: Pop quiz: You are willing to pay 6 million in lost isk to fly an interceptor to destruction. If suddenly you get +10 million for just destroying said interceptor how much then are you willing to pay for the interceptor? 16 million is the price your going to end up paying... You certainly cant say less then 10 cause the manufacturer would just insure it and blow it up. And if you think your getting it for 11 million your just going to find out that there is someone that is willing to loose 2 million after insurance we know that because before there were people willing to pay 6 million above and beyond insurance. And that person is going to find that those people willing to pay 6 million above insurance still exist even after insurance is raised to 10 million profit. Just like before. And lastly let me note that the more insurance pays out the more people are induced to build interceptors cause of the amount of isk generated per an interceptor destruction. But the tech2 components to produce interceptors that get funneled to interceptors and not other things will make other things in the universe cost more via opportunity cost.
Shiakarma	Posted - 2004.08.11 13:05:00 - [59] Originally by: Pychian Vanervi So you pay 15 million for one and then pay 15 million to insure it thats a total of 30 million with a 15 million return so you pay 15 million anyway!! So why not just leave it uninsured? I said "payout", set the payout at the same amount which you paid for the ship. The insurance cost would be the same percentage of the payout as it is for every other ship (about 25% is it for platinum?). Computer games don't affect children. If PacMan had affected us as kids then we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
Shiakarma	Posted - 2004.08.11 13:05:00 - [60] Originally by: Pychian Vanervi So you pay 15 million for one and then pay 15 million to insure it thats a total of 30 million with a 15 million return so you pay 15 million anyway!! So why not just leave it uninsured? I said "payout", set the payout at the same amount which you paid for the ship. The insurance cost would be the same percentage of the payout as it is for every other ship (about 25% is it for platinum?). Computer games don't affect children. If PacMan had affected us as kids then we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.

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