All in all null sec sov space is far more of a carebear land than hi sec.

You realize T2 industrialists likley have a POS for research??? and you realize that this POS is likely in hisec??? So leaving the corp isn't really an option, less you dismantle your corp just to go farm some LP for datacores.

Oh wait, now I need another alt.

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One glaring thing occurs to me. How many of us have alts? LOTS Why do we have alts? Perhaps we were looking for other ways to make ISK. Why do we need so much ISK? Well the rewards for the playstyle I was in made it incredibly hard to afford that next ship tier.

In my eyes, all of this is from a poor rewards system to begin with. Whether it be industry, mining, ratting, missioning, etc We have nearly all tried to find other ways to supplement our main characters efforts and wallet, in the form of trading, DC's, PI, etc.

What does CCP do.... They have put an all out assault on these forms of income. What do we see as a result? Skyrocketing costs of all in game items.

Perhaps if the rewards system was better, we could do as they want and just go shoot other ships. It's often voiced that a PvP player has an alt to generate isk so they can PvP. Instead, all of these nerfs to the passive, or semi-passsive income only create the need for us to spend more time generating ISK.

ISK drives your game, stop making it harder to aquire.

In nullsec (Sovereign Nullsec) if you see a single neut in local, he's there to kill you. That's not true in HiSec. So how is Nullsec safer again?

In nullsec (Sovereign Nullsec) if you see a single neut in local, he's there to kill you. That's not true in HiSec. So how is Nullsec safer again?

Well, you already knew this, but I'll repeat it for the people who don't know you are a lying Goon.

In High Sec, I CAN NOT know if someone is there to kill me by just looking at the Local channel.

In Null Sec, I CAN know if someone is there to kill me by just looking at the Local channel.

This makes it much, much, almost infinitely, easier to avoid ganks in Null Sec.

This is drooling ****** speak here. Nullsec space is made safe by the players making it that way. There is no NPC police force bringing the fear of god into potential gankers. There are literally a million reasons why nullsec is more dangerous and risky than highsec.

This is drooling ****** speak here. Nullsec space is made safe by the players making it that way. There is no NPC police force bringing the fear of god into potential gankers. There are literally a million reasons why nullsec is more dangerous and risky than highsec.

All in all null sec sov space is far more of a carebear land than hi sec.

In nullsec (Sovereign Nullsec) if you see a single neut in local, he's there to kill you. That's not true in HiSec. So how is Nullsec safer again?

I think you're neglecting the huge effective subsidies that hi-sec manufacturing recieves compared to 0.0

Mining with guns was bad because it detracted from real mining. This is bad because it detracts from......what exactly?

We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec.
This gives us a very cool venue for FW to influence the rest of the universe instead of being a closed-loop system.

And I have two more researchers. The total impact of this is about 600 Million ISK in science skill books, around 30 Million SP in science and over two years training time.

Mining with guns was bad because it detracted from real mining. This is bad because it detracts from......what exactly?

We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec. This gives us a very cool venue for FW to influence the rest of the universe instead of being a closed-loop system.

This is good news for people who don't mind a little risk and a step in the right direction towards buffing FW. Also the news for the high sec harvesters isn't that bad because over time prices will adjust anyway.

I think you're neglecting the huge effective subsidies that hi-sec manufacturing recieves compared to 0.0

I can live with that as long as they cash out the SP that I spent 60 days training to get Research Project Management to level 5 for the sole reason of collecting datacores from the maximum agents. Unless you can still run agents and the FW stuff is in addition too, and not instead of.

In any case I will be following this closely as I have a lot of SP over a lot of characters that are dedicated researcher/ inventors. At this point it's mostly speculation and guesses.

Mr Epeen

rp rate is halved from agents, datacores all cost 10k isk and 100 rp from the agents.

militia lp store, offers were 5 datacores for 1000 lp and 1m isk.

I couldn't agree more regarding the reimbursement of skillpoints for a loss in the ability to perform an in-game action.

CCP Soundwave seems to be using the old 'carrot and stick' approach to get people into low/null.

Trouble is, he forgot the carrot and is only using the stick. I think this will come back to haunt him, to be honest.

Mr Epeen

GǪwhich you can still use for things other than simple RP collection (and for RP collection as well, since it's not going away). None of your SP or training time is wasted unless you choose to waste it by not making use of it.

Have a look in EVEMon what those skills can be used for and start doing that in addition to RP harvesting.

Before you clicked "begin training" and started the 60 day wait for Research Proj. Mgmt. 5, you probably did a calculation of how much extra profit this would make, and how long it would take for that skill to pay for itself. It's a long term investment, with a very good chance that market conditions will be different at the end than at the beginning. Natural market dynamics might have dropped the bottom out of the datacore market (if everyone had jumped on the farming bandwagon). Or a rule change might have come along to change their value.

The latter has happened, and your speculation on long-term datacore futures didn't pay off. Or maybe it did. We don't know yet.

But you're the one who gambled on a long term payoff while knowing that the game changes. I don't see that CCP's rebalancing efforts always need to be hamstrung by player choices like that, otherwise nothing would get done.

The problem with this is that:

- WTF do the faction warfare corps have to do with R&D from a lore standpoint?

- Nerfing the rate of passive RP accumulation or raising the cost of datacores is going to raise the prices of invented T2 gear.

The proper approach would have been:

a) Leave existing passive R&D mechanics alone. Leave RP/datacore prices alone. Don't move player's cheese if you don't have to.

b) Increase the amount of RP that you get as a reward from the daily mission. Boost it enough that it's worth doing those daily missions. Right now, those daily missions are only worth about a few hundred thousand ISK/day. And because L4 R&D agents are spread around, nobody wants to bother flying 20-30 jumps per day just to earn 2-3 million ISK worth of datacores.

c) Add datacores to the R&D NPC corp LP stores.

d) Go ahead and add things to the FW LP store - I think datacores are a bad thing because they don't have anything to do with the lore of the FW NPC corps. BPCs for combat hulls / modules would be a far better fit.

e) If you have high standings with the corp in question, you should get a 10-30% discount on goods from that NPC store.

Increased supply would turn down the payback on passive R&D point earning another notch over time, giving people time to figure out that it's becoming an even more marginal income method. Right now, payback for (5) R&D L4 agents is already 30-60 days. By boosting the supply sources, you gradually wean people off while moving them towards more active production of datacores.

And how was this helpful??? insightful???

Useless contribution to the discussion, thanks.