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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Something Random
The Barrow Boys
139
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Posted - 2012.04.27 20:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
This to me is a bit worrying.
Free datacores for the skill investment HAS always felt like a cheat - one i dont mind collecting on of course. However i USE my datacores mostly, my current spread is to have 3 dedicated useable datacore researchers and i have 2 that produce cores i dont currently use and sale for cash for yet more produce basically.
My alts do other stuff.
Dont kill me CCP - really think about this hard.
Datacore for ISK is pointless - all will happen is datcore sales will rise to reflect the input isk and boom back where you were. I dont mind a little work - research orientated work - for my cores in the future.
"caught on fire a little bit, just a little." "Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangsn++ all here!" |
Kurai Okala
Okala Corp
15
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Posted - 2012.04.27 20:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
Xython wrote:The problem is, people aren't doing datacore farming for datacores, but as a source of free money.
3x Datacore Farming Alts that are also PI Alts at the same time = enough money for a PLEX or Two a Month, as I understand it. The fact it took them this long to fix such a horrific isk faucet is kinda sad.
Neither datacore farming or PI are "isk faucets" since neither bring isk into the EVE economy. However, I agree that datacore farming is a pretty terrible mechanic since it creates huge value for those players who engage in it with no risk and barely any player input. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1310
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Posted - 2012.04.27 20:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kurai Okala wrote:Xython wrote:The problem is, people aren't doing datacore farming for datacores, but as a source of free money.
3x Datacore Farming Alts that are also PI Alts at the same time = enough money for a PLEX or Two a Month, as I understand it. The fact it took them this long to fix such a horrific isk faucet is kinda sad. Neither datacore farming or PI are "isk faucets" since neither bring isk into the EVE economy. However, I agree that datacore farming is a pretty terrible mechanic since it creates huge value for those players who engage in it with no risk and barely any player input.
A couple of billion a year is hardly huge considering the time it takes to get to the level and standing where you can do that.
Mr Epeen
Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1242
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Posted - 2012.04.27 21:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:CCP PHANTOM, why not some input on this topic from the Dev's side, we need some clarification from you guys on this important issue of datacore nerfing!
I would pretty much like to comment on the questions here, but that wouldn't do any good to anyone since I do not know enough about these things right now. Instead I will inform people about this thread who are qualified to comment.
CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Peter Raptor
Plutonian Army
96
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Posted - 2012.04.27 21:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:CCP PHANTOM, why not some input on this topic from the Dev's side, we need some clarification from you guys on this important issue of datacore nerfing! I would pretty much like to comment on the questions here, but that wouldn't do any good to anyone since I do not know enough about these things right now. Instead I will inform people about this thread who are qualified to comment.
That would be appreciated.
And datacores are NOT free ISK, you have to invest TONS of time in skill training (about 3 months from the start) and so have to deny yourself training ship skills, not to mention TONS of time grinding up to lvl 4 agents, its very tough to properly farm data cores, its a Big initial investment. Evelopedia;-á
The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á |
Dataa
LightBender Mining and Research Corp
0
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Posted - 2012.04.28 15:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
I like the system just the way it is.
It took a lot of money and time to get my skill books and even longer to get the standings to use my agents , specially when i can barely fit a cruiser. I use my cores for what they were intended for inventions. I dont get enough cores to keep up with how fast i can do invention jobs . This is where i like it that other people can help with the supply of cores and keep the costs down.
If you dont have access to cheaper moon goo than market a lot of ships are not even worth building if you have to buy the materials off the market
Buying cores from the agent is just adding more expense , pushing smaller entities out of the t2 market. |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
63
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Posted - 2012.04.28 16:06:00 -
[37] - Quote
Like others complaining in this thread, I invested a lot of time and energy in setting up 4 characters with R&D agents to get datacores. I don't really know how much ISK I get from it. Maybe 3 billion? I don't know because I don't access it exactly once a year. Still, it's not exactly a flood, but a nice supplement to my income.
With that said, I would be okay with having to maintain my R&D agents. If I had to run a mission for each agent once a week, it wouldn't be the end of the world. That would take care of the completely passive ISK injection. Level 4 R7D agents tend to be spread out (I think it is about 20 jumps to get to all my Carthum Conglomerate agents). This requires some effort, which I don't think is a bad thing. |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
227
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Posted - 2012.04.28 16:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
Urgg Boolean wrote:
So is the real motivation for this change because Research as a business is costing CCP profits, as in training up my two alts to do R&D and buying PLEX with the profits?
No, that cannot be the motivation, because PLEX increase CCP profits not reduce them. Every player that buys PLEX for ISK increase demand for them and creates upward pressure on their value, in ISK. This also makes them more attractive to RL cash rich players, who buy more of them. A PLEX is more expensive in RL than a subscription, so the net effect is that CCP make more income from the PLEX system, with some players using PLEX.
Also in the fan fest video stream it was "faction datacores" which I believe means the Faction Starship engineering core. |
Galffin
Black Lion Brigade Tragedy.
0
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Posted - 2012.04.28 16:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
I am all for a change in datacores and research agents.
As they stand with maxed out skills you make around 100m per month and it is the most boring and slow money in the game. If this was some cheap and passive income for newbies like PI I would understand, but datacores are a high skill way to make money.
Personally I would like to see datacores move to a more time intensive profession with better payout potential or made low skillcost so newbies can get into the action. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
323
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Posted - 2012.04.28 16:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Xython wrote:The problem is, people aren't doing datacore farming for datacores, but as a source of free money.
3x Datacore Farming Alts that are also PI Alts at the same time = enough money for a PLEX or Two a Month, as I understand it. The fact it took them this long to fix such a horrific isk faucet is kinda sad.
I don't see the difference between datacores and moongoo.
They aren't ISK and it trickles in. And to actually make some ISK on datacores you have to invest quit some time and skills.
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Zora'e
Nasty Pope
10
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Posted - 2012.04.28 17:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
I would hope that CCP would give us the option of reverting skill points placed into R&D if they intend to destroy data core farming. I have a significant amount of points into R&D and have no desire to go into faction warfare to make those skills useful. If your going to make them useless otherwise then you need to allow those of us who have no desire to deal with your planned outcome, to revert our SP's so we can move along.
At least that way the screaming will be kept to a minimum.
The thing that bothers me the most right now is what I see CCP doing and that is consistently nerfing everything in high-sec in a desperate attempt to drive people out in low/null/wh's.
Personally I don't mind living in any of those places, and prefer null/wh's over low but at the same time I also understand people who have no desire to go out into any of those areas and it seems counter intuitive to me for CCP to try and force the majority of their players to play in an area they have no desire to play. That is asking for cancelled accounts I think.
At the same time I also know that (at least) null/wh's are very profitable if someone bothers to take the time to make them that way and people are missing out on a lot of potential fun by not going there and experiencing it for themselves. However, you can't make a chihuahua turn into a mountain lion just by demanding that it do so. It will just make the chihuahua shake and shiver and have a heart attack. Then you have a dead chihuahua (cancelled account) on your hands. In EVE Online...-á-áA Friend will calm you down when you are angry after getting Ganked.., but a Best Friend will fly along beside you commanding a Strike Group singing "Someones Gonna Get It!!!".-á ~Zora'e |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
78
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Posted - 2012.04.28 17:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you. why do you troll us by attaching meaningless blue bars to threads??? |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1851
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Posted - 2012.04.28 18:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
Xython wrote:The problem is, people aren't doing datacore farming for datacores, but as a source of free money.
3x Datacore Farming Alts that are also PI Alts at the same time = enough money for a PLEX or Two a Month, as I understand it. The fact it took them this long to fix such a horrific isk faucet is kinda sad.
There's nothing free about it and it takes a lot of invested time and ISK to buy and train up skills as well as grind up standings for access.
I have 5 high level R&D Agents available and after 4 months have gained enough points to make about 150 mill to 200 mill ISK max. I have to travel round to all R&D Agents, redeem the points, transport the Data Cores to market and then decide on quick sell or play the .01 ISK market game. Either way it's not an ISK printing press or ATM machine.
Basically the amount of ISK gained through Data Cores for that character can only buy one PLEX per year. I only have this one character on my account specialized to access R&D Agents. Not everyone has 3x Data Core farming alts nor does everyone do Planetary Interaction, I certainly don't.
Hell, I gain more Data Cores within one day from doing exploration than what I get from all my R&D agents within one week. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
324
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Posted - 2012.04.28 18:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zora'e wrote: At the same time I also know that (at least) null/wh's are very profitable if someone bothers to take the time to make them that way and people are missing out on a lot of potential fun by not going there and experiencing it for themselves. However, you can't make a chihuahua turn into a mountain lion just by demanding that it do so. It will just make the chihuahua shake and shiver and have a heart attack. Then you have a dead chihuahua (cancelled account) on your hands.
I think you miss a very large point there.
There are also those who have limited gametime. So they aren't really seeing any point in logging in and then being called to fight most of the time without having the chance to build up any assets for themselves. For casual players it's a lot harder to maintain a PvP life style then for the almost no-lifers who practicly live in EVE or have people with even less life making the Isk for them.
Should they log in then to get aggravated by those who have loads more time to hop into (often) pointless or useless CTA's etc?
I have seen it in various alliances where people with a socalled FC tag keep calling CTA's or HD's for 2 or 3 neuts somehwhere. They then expect that everyone drops what they are doing and form up all over the place. God knows howmany hours later the CTA or HD drops and most of the time it was just another pointless exercise.
The no-lifer can easy continue then with his stuff whereas the casual player most often has to log off during the fleet or right after. No making Isk to support the pvp life the alliance cries about.
Now the uproar comes alive that there are many ways to make Isk. True enough, but let's just not factor in that those too need time plus you often need another character to do it. This then requires another account or you need to train / purchase another character for it.
So let's invest even more money / Isk. But not all can do the money making on the alt while the main is huddling around after some e-peen FC who just loves the attention of the group straddling after him.
The few Isk someone can make from Datacores is hardly worth while to mention. Simply because they invested time and Isk into getting the standings and the skills up to par to make some Isk on datacore sales.
If CCP in their infinite wisdom is gonna do yet another nerf in favour of certain play styles then please cast away the word Sandbox.
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Tarkelan
ARES Unlimited
0
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Posted - 2012.04.28 19:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
I heared the warning, got all cores and sold them last week. After that i canceled contracts with the agents. So let Inferno come and lets see what happens. |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
213
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Posted - 2012.04.28 20:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
I spent alot of time to raise the standing for the RnD corps/agents, not to mention several million sp to max out the datacore gain. I'm fine with the change as long as CCP transfers RnD related skills to the free SP pool. EGD: If you jettison what's in your brain, at least expect can flipping. |
MotherMoon
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
574
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Posted - 2012.04.28 20:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
Skydell wrote:It's kind of wierd. A few years ago when they nerfed shadow training, the datacore thing came up and they chose to not nerf it out. Now they are saying it's a problem. They nerfed it out with shadow training |
Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol Bittervet Mercenaries
0
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Posted - 2012.04.28 20:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Damn, this sucks.
I've got 4 characters doing research, two of which I started and trained specifically for the purpose of having a passive income. It took about 3 months pr. character to get the relevant skills, so combined that's a year worth of skill training, some 500m in skillbooks and implants not to metion all the work going into boring grinding of missions to gain the necessary standings.
Dear CCP, I implore you to really think this through before you completely negate the purpose of 2 of my characters, render a year worth of skill training useless and rob me of all my work on this.
Fixing the FiS part of EVE doesn't mean it all has to be nerfed into the ground.
/Croup |
Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol Bittervet Mercenaries
0
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Posted - 2012.04.28 20:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
To those who don't know here is a breakdown the amount of ISK earned with Research Agents:
With lvl 5 negotian, lvl 5 in the relevant research skill and lvl 4 agent you can earn around 120 RP's pr. day in the high value category.
- That's 2.4 datacores pr. day pr. agent.
- You can have six agents so that's 14.4 datacores.
- Prices on datacores vary greatly, but normally ranges between 150k and 300k, so that's an average of 225k.
- 14.4 x 225k = 3.24m ISK
So, if we assume you have done this for all three characters on your account you can now in total earn:
3.24m ISK x 3 characters x 30 days = 291m ISK pr month.
That's not even close to being a PLEX.
Also, consider that players who chose to do this normally train a character on a separate account and then transfer it once it's ready to make ISK. That means the initial investment is 3 months of game time which translates into 3 plex of around 500m plus a character transfer fee.
That's a 2b ISK investment pr. character, so each character will have to run research for almost 2 years before you see a return on your initial investment.
Whomever said this was an ISK printing machine needs to learn the facts.
/Aron |
Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol Bittervet Mercenaries
3
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Posted - 2012.04.29 07:56:00 -
[50] - Quote
Oh and one final point.
There is no way this can ever become a problem for the EVE economy, for two reasons.
1: The datacore system does not introduce any new ISK into EVE. 2: If more people start doing research, the price on datacores will simply go down.
Sometimes you just gotta wonder if these guys even play their own game.
/Aron |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
520
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Posted - 2012.04.29 08:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Someone really wants their datacores to not be nerfed... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Peter Raptor
Plutonian Army
101
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Posted - 2012.04.29 08:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
I grinded lvl 4 R and D agents too, was about to train the skills for datacores, all suspended for now Evelopedia;-á
The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á |
Ten Bulls
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
87
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Posted - 2012.04.29 09:11:00 -
[53] - Quote
One of the things that sets EVE apart from other games is that there are long term consequences for what you do, both good and bad.
Datacores provide a good return for those that plan long term, these long term players are also likely to be good reliable customers for CCP.
Datacores have already been nerfed by reducing the standing requirements for agents, if you want to nerf datacores even more, then you should allow a refund for all datacore related skill points (even if they can also be used for invention) and provide another benefit for having high corp standings.
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Peter Raptor
Plutonian Army
101
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Posted - 2012.04.29 09:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
And they should reimburse standings also, so we can apply them to agents that will be useful, and not useless after Inferno Evelopedia;-á
The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found
32
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Posted - 2012.04.29 09:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
Eliminating gun-mining in missions so forth is good. Adding gun-researching in FW is... good?
While the method, the mechanics, of the new system is entirely unknown I would expect all datacores to appear in FW LP Stores. If they're still available through R&D Agents in parallel then I would not expect the datacore market to change that much (though the prices might) as the FW datacores will be competing with Navy 'geddons and so forth for profit/LP. Most likely the datacores will be pitched high initially and we'll see a huge oversupply which will drop the price of datacores sharply (good news for us inventors) but that in itself will effectively eliminate the FW LP Store from the equation.
The only way it can work in the way Soundwave seems to be hoping is if FW LP Stores become the only source of datacores... |
Lictor Yeva
WoonGaffe
0
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Posted - 2012.04.29 11:03:00 -
[56] - Quote
The thing is, a lot of us researchers have trained our characters specifically for the purpose of research agents and have no other use for them.
If a particular PvP tactic is nerfed you can just adapt to a new tactic. There's no adapting to losing the entire reason you created your character in the first place. It'd be like CCP saying "We're removing mining/pvp/missions/exploration, etc...".
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Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1505
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Posted - 2012.04.29 12:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
+1 for nerfing passive income ! Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
9
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Posted - 2012.04.29 12:29:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lictor Yeva wrote:The thing is, a lot of us researchers have trained our characters specifically for the purpose of research agents and have no other use for them.
You know you could use the invested SP into good use right? With little additional training you have a good inventor.
But anyway, first of all, we're talking about the RACIAL DC, so changes would effect only a small portion of the agents.
Second, the DC markets are pretty stable. So in this case we're not talking about something that is broken. |
Arec Bardwin
Perkone Caldari State
359
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Posted - 2012.04.29 12:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
I just cashed out over 2 years worth of datacores on all my R&D alts. Thank god I installed jump clones in the agent locations back then, cause flying all those alts around.... |
Lictor Yeva
WoonGaffe
2
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Posted - 2012.04.29 12:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
clixor wrote:Lictor Yeva wrote:The thing is, a lot of us researchers have trained our characters specifically for the purpose of research agents and have no other use for them.
You know you could use the invested SP into good use right? With little additional training you have a good inventor. But anyway, first of all, we're talking about the RACIAL DC, so changes would effect only a small portion of the agents. Second, the DC markets are pretty stable. So in this case we're not talking about something that is broken.
1. The invested SP's are useless, because I trained these characters for a passive income. I have no use for another active income toon. Besides, I do have an invention character, she does all the invention I need to do... so can hardly use 3 more toons for that purpose.
2. Racial datacores? No, the jist of Soundwaves talk is that they're considering the changes for all datacores and research agents.
3. The DC markets are pretty stable now. If CCP mangles them in some ill conceived nerf, that may no longer be the case. The stability of the markets also does nothing to address the concern that there are MANY players out there who have spent what amounts to years of skill training, standings grinding and ISK investment, long term, to be able to have a modest passive income which CCP now threatens to take away for no good reason.
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