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Owsen Mitchell Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.14 08:40:00 - [1] Does the new salvager II only make things quicker or do they give more items per salvage.
Lille meg	Posted - 2009.03.14 09:19:00 - [2] None of em. Just improves the chance of getting the salvage done on first attempt, also adds a 1 km range
Owsen Mitchell Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.14 09:28:00 - [3] Thats what I thought, thanks
Shereza	Posted - 2009.03.14 10:00:00 - [4] Originally by: Lille meg None of em. Just improves the chance of getting the salvage done on first attempt, also adds a 1 km range Um, if having a 2%/salvager increase in your chance/cycle of popping a wreck and increasing the range from your ship where you can salvage them, thereby reducing the wait time and the tractor time, isn't increasing your salvaging speed I don't know what is. Think about it The sooner they get into salvage range the sooner you can tractor other wrecks. The sooner you salvage the first set the sooner you can get to the next. The increases are marginal in absolute terms but when added up over the course of dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of missions it can be quite a bit of time saved. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Badmin	Posted - 2009.03.14 14:15:00 - [5] Edited by: Badmin on 14/03/2009 14:15:33 Shereza looks almost EXACTALY like Lille Meg
ImaSexyBeastiaryFigure	Posted - 2009.03.14 14:19:00 - [6] i was gonna say that
Haruka Watanabe	Posted - 2009.03.14 16:46:00 - [7] Better chance and range are nice, but the benefit is rather small for requiring a level 5 skill. I'll pass.
Vindarten	Posted - 2009.03.14 16:49:00 - [8] 1km means nothing if you're using tractor beams. What does it save you, a whole 2 seconds? Not worth it, especially because the bonus gets negated by having the Salvaging skill so high.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.03.14 17:15:00 - [9] Wait, what? T2 Salvager? Nice, another reason to, someday, train Salvaging L5. 2% bonus though....could've been more. Looking at my ship, access difficulty bonuses don't add up? I thought it was just additive. 5% module, 5% / level skill, plus any rigs you have. So why does it read 20% access difficulty when doign Show Info on the salvager, on an unrigged ship, when I have the skill to 4? Shouldn't it be 25%?
JCache Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.14 19:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Qui Shon I thought it was just additive. 5% module, 5% / level skill, plus any rigs you have. So why does it read 20% access difficulty when doign Show Info on the salvager, on an unrigged ship, when I have the skill to 4? Shouldn't it be 25%? Because you need salvaging I to use the salvager, so basicly you get level times 5%, max. 25% with the Salvager I. The T2 on the other hand is level 5 times 7% = 35%! It's probably the only T2 with a 40% bonus to the T1... but I won't complain. ;) Please refrain from moderating on the discussion forums.

Shereza	Posted - 2009.03.14 22:43:00 - [11] Originally by: Vindarten 1km means nothing if you're using tractor beams. What does it save you, a whole 2 seconds? Not worth it, especially because the bonus gets negated by having the Salvaging skill so high. EVE is a game where every last little bit counts. Not only is being able to shut your tractors off sooner when salvaging while stationary helpful but the increased chance of salvaging is also, marginally more, helpful. Both contribute to reducing cap consumption as well as increasing the speed of salvaging as well as the income it results in. Furthermore the extra 1km will be very useful for people who move while salvaging. Back when I was still salvaging in a destroyer I was often using a 10mn AB and pulling speeds in the 1km/s range. The extra 1km of salvage range and 2% increase in salvage ability would've significantly reduced the amount of time I had to spend at less than maximum speed while flying around the mission. When you're salvaging a lot of widely-spaced wrecks being able to keep your speed up is priceless, and so is more capacitor efficiency if you're using an over-sized AB. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.03.14 23:58:00 - [12] Originally by: JCache Originally by: Qui Shon I thought it was just additive. 5% module, 5% / level skill, plus any rigs you have. So why does it read 20% access difficulty when doign Show Info on the salvager, on an unrigged ship, when I have the skill to 4? Shouldn't it be 25%? Because you need salvaging I to use the salvager, so basicly you get level times 5%, max. 25% with the Salvager I. The T2 on the other hand is level 5 times 7% = 35%! It's probably the only T2 with a 40% bonus to the T1... but I won't complain. ;) Ahh, got hit by the old "confusing or incorrect ingame description" then. In that case I retract my earlier disappointment about the size of the bonus. Another 10% access difficulty bonus (or 15 if you count the skill too) would be quite welcome. Thanks.
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2009.03.15 02:01:00 - [13] Edited by: Shan''Talasha Mea''Questa on 15/03/2009 02:02:58 Originally by: JCache Originally by: Qui Shon I thought it was just additive. 5% module, 5% / level skill, plus any rigs you have. So why does it read 20% access difficulty when doign Show Info on the salvager, on an unrigged ship, when I have the skill to 4? Shouldn't it be 25%? Because you need salvaging I to use the salvager, so basicly you get level times 5%, max. 25% with the Salvager I. The T2 on the other hand is level 5 times 7% = 35%! It's probably the only T2 with a 40% bonus to the T1... but I won't complain. ;) Miner I = 40m3 Miner II = 60m3 50% bonus. Edit: Gas Cloud Harvester I 10m3/30 sec Gas Cloud Harvester II 20m3/40 sec T1 makes 4 cycles in 2 minutes = 40m3 T2 makes 3 cycles in 2 minutes = 60m3 Also a 50% increase. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Ch1pmunk	Posted - 2009.03.15 02:46:00 - [14] Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 15/03/2009 02:49:31 so.... how much are these monsters? it will be nice to have them finally.... with my current setup on my salvage thorax, i get 55% chance to get more stuff when salvaging. (with rigs) the 10% added bonus will be welcome. yes, very welcome. (for all you noobs who do not understand salvaging... i will make it a lil easier for u.) On a regular, mid difficulty lvl4 mission, i will get between 3 and 10 mil worth of salvage with my regular ship. with my thorax, i get almost 10 mil more, averaging 15 mil in salvage regularly. 10% more chance to receive more stuff may put it closer to 20 mil average. (it may seem like an exaggeration. but there is a reason u see so many salvagers around hubs like motsu.) Edit: makes me wonder what % i would be getting if ever T3 salvage mods and rigs become available... or even a salvage ship... One might be able to salvage most of a whole ship or whole pieces of equipment that way.... sigh... (I can dream, cant i?)
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.03.15 04:55:00 - [15] Quote: Because you need salvaging I to use the salvager, so basicly you get level times 5%, max. 25% with the Salvager I. The T2 on the other hand is level 5 times 7% = 35%! It's probably the only T2 with a 40% bonus to the T1... but I won't complain. ;) Can this be confirmed?
JCache Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.15 09:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: Because you need salvaging I to use the salvager, so basicly you get level times 5%, max. 25% with the Salvager I. The T2 on the other hand is level 5 times 7% = 35%! It's probably the only T2 with a 40% bonus to the T1... but I won't complain. ;) Can this be confirmed? Sure, Salvager II have a chance of 35%. I already use half a dozen of them... The second statement about being the only T2 module which is 40% better seems to be wrong though. But who cares about mining anyway? ;) Please refrain from moderating on the discussion forums.
DeAnnais Ghetto Kings	Posted - 2009.03.15 11:14:00 - [17] I'd rather have a T2 tractor but hey that's just me
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.03.15 13:20:00 - [18] Originally by: Haruka Watanabe Better chance and range are nice, but the benefit is rather small for requiring a level 5 skill. I'll pass. This unfortunately... Terianna Eri > :( i wish i were as good a forum ***** as karrade
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.15 19:17:00 - [19] Edited by: Whitehound on 15/03/2009 19:21:18 I do agree. The time for training salvaging to level 5 will likely find a better use in some other skill. After all, before one can salvage a wreck does one need to create a wreck. Since the thread has already attracted the experts on salvaging and p0rn would I like to ask a question about the access difficulty. Today I have read on the help channel that the Memetic Algorithm Bank (an electronics rig) helps with salvaging. Is this true? I find it unlikely that the Salvage Tackle rig (needs one more skill, gives +10% with a drawback) shall be inferior to the Memetic Algorithm Bank rig (needs only jury rigging, gives +20%). I assume the confusion comes from the Access Difficulty Bonus attribute that both carry. Can someone confirm this, please? -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.03.15 21:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 15/03/2009 19:21:18 I do agree. The time for training salvaging to level 5 will likely find a better use in some other skill. After all, before one can salvage a wreck does one need to create a wreck. Since the thread has already attracted the experts on salvaging and p0rn would I like to ask a question about the access difficulty. Today I have read on the help channel that the Memetic Algorithm Bank (an electronics rig) helps with salvaging. Is this true? I find it unlikely that the Salvage Tackle rig (needs one more skill, gives +10% with a drawback) shall be inferior to the Memetic Algorithm Bank rig (needs only jury rigging, gives +20%). I assume the confusion comes from the Access Difficulty Bonus attribute that both carry. Can someone confirm this, please? Hacking is not the same as salvaging.

Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards	Posted - 2009.03.15 22:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Ch1pmunk Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 15/03/2009 02:49:31 so.... how much are these monsters? it will be nice to have them finally.... with my current setup on my salvage thorax, i get 55% chance to get more stuff when salvaging. (with rigs) the 10% added bonus will be welcome. yes, very welcome. (for all you noobs who do not understand salvaging... i will make it a lil easier for u.) On a regular, mid difficulty lvl4 mission, i will get between 3 and 10 mil worth of salvage with my regular ship. with my thorax, i get almost 10 mil more, averaging 15 mil in salvage regularly. 10% more chance to receive more stuff may put it closer to 20 mil average. (it may seem like an exaggeration. but there is a reason u see so many salvagers around hubs like motsu.) Edit: makes me wonder what % i would be getting if ever T3 salvage mods and rigs become available... or even a salvage ship... One might be able to salvage most of a whole ship or whole pieces of equipment that way.... sigh... (I can dream, cant i?) wrong actually. salvaging bonus doesn't work like that. you get the same chances of getting stuff out of wrecks no matter what the skill level. the number of failed cycles however decreases. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Nadezhda Andropov	Posted - 2009.03.15 23:00:00 - [22] Originally by: Ch1pmunk (for all you noobs who do not understand salvaging... i will make it a lil easier for u.) On a regular, mid difficulty lvl4 mission, i will get between 3 and 10 mil worth of salvage with my regular ship. with my thorax, i get almost 10 mil more, averaging 15 mil in salvage regularly. 10% more chance to receive more stuff may put it closer to 20 mil average. (it may seem like an exaggeration. but there is a reason u see so many salvagers around hubs like motsu.) that tells me very little about the actual mechanics of salvaging lol -----------------------------------------------
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.03.15 23:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Nadezhda Andropov that tells me very little about the actual mechanics of salvaging lol Point salvager at can. Run salvager. Access difficulty is what defines change of success, and you retry until you succeed. Salvager IIs give you a (significantly) better success chance (5% -> 7% is a 40% increase), and a (slightly) better range, meaning that you're salvaging each object faster. And the bit more range doesn't hurt, as it makes non-tractorable salvage easier to grab, and the tractorable stuff... well, it does give you a little more flexibility.
Nevenda'ar	Posted - 2009.03.15 23:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Ch1pmunk 55% chance to get more stuff when salvaging. (with rigs) (for all you noobs who do not understand salvaging... i will make it a lil easier for u.) On a regular, mid difficulty lvl4 mission, i will get between 3 and 10 mil worth of salvage with my regular ship. with my thorax, i get almost 10 mil more, averaging 15 mil in salvage regularly. 10% more chance to receive more stuff may put it closer to 20 mil average. (it may seem like an exaggeration. but there is a reason u see so many salvagers around hubs like motsu.) I just love it when 'experts' like this one come in and start spreading their wisdom.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:46:00 - [25] What I don't get is how "5% increase in chance of salvage retrieval per level." equates to 100% bonus to Salvager module effectiveness. Where, exactly, does the 5% from the skill come into play? But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Smirna Auff	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Ch1pmunk (for all you noobs who do not understand salvaging... i will make it a lil easier for u.) On a regular, mid difficulty lvl4 mission, i will get between 3 and 10 mil worth of salvage with my regular ship. with my thorax, i get almost 10 mil more, averaging 15 mil in salvage regularly. 10% more chance to receive more stuff may put it closer to 20 mil average. (it may seem like an exaggeration. but there is a reason u see so many salvagers around hubs like motsu.) Edit: makes me wonder what % i would be getting if ever T3 salvage mods and rigs become available... or even a salvage ship... One might be able to salvage most of a whole ship or whole pieces of equipment that way.... sigh... (I can dream, cant i?) I can't tell if you're purely a troll or not. But your post is 100% incorrect.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Badmin Edited by: Badmin on 14/03/2009 14:15:33 Shereza looks almost EXACTALY like Lille Meg racist caldari ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Ch1pmunk	Posted - 2009.03.16 03:39:00 - [28] Originally by: Smirna Auff Originally by: Ch1pmunk (for all you noobs who do not understand salvaging... i will make it a lil easier for u.) On a regular, mid difficulty lvl4 mission, i will get between 3 and 10 mil worth of salvage with my regular ship. with my thorax, i get almost 10 mil more, averaging 15 mil in salvage regularly. 10% more chance to receive more stuff may put it closer to 20 mil average. (it may seem like an exaggeration. but there is a reason u see so many salvagers around hubs like motsu.) Edit: makes me wonder what % i would be getting if ever T3 salvage mods and rigs become available... or even a salvage ship... One might be able to salvage most of a whole ship or whole pieces of equipment that way.... sigh... (I can dream, cant i?) I can't tell if you're purely a troll or not. But your post is 100% incorrect. informative. and useless. as u didnt say which part. the %? the cash? the dream? the numbers are all from experience. where r ur numbers? or experience?
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.03.16 05:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Ch1pmunk informative. and useless. as u didnt say which part. the %? the cash? the dream? the numbers are all from experience. where r ur numbers? or experience? Basically everything is wrong, since it's based on your incorrect assumption that increased access difficulty bonus = more salvage. All it does is increase your chance to successfully salvage a wreck per cycle (higher = less failures). Of course this means you will salvage a bit faster, but you will not get more salvage as salvage amount is more or less just random. And since nobody answered my question: Quote: What I don't get is how "5% increase in chance of salvage retrieval per level." equates to 100% bonus to Salvager module effectiveness. Where, exactly, does the 5% from the skill come into play? But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Ch1pmunk	Posted - 2009.03.16 15:56:00 - [30] Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 16/03/2009 15:56:58 lol everyone is saying all the salvage mods and skills do is let u salvage faster..... if this is tru... there is no point in training the skill to lvl 5... and no point in buying the rigs.... and no point in t2.... all u need is 4-6 T1s and it all works out the same. of course... this is false. a character with lvl 1 salvage skill will never get the same amount of salvage as the guy with salvage lvl 5. also, adding salvage rigs will give you just a lil more salvage. and then, adding t2 salvagers will raise it just a lil more. what u get is a dice role. how much u get is a dice role, but the % makes the odds much much better. the t2 also makes he mods a lil faster. of course it does. time of activation is listed in description. if the salvage setup worked the way some are thinking.... well... noone would have the skill past lvl 1 and noone would boy the rigs and noone would buy t2. it just wouldnt be woth the millions of isk

Absolom Hues Gallente The Triangle Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.16 16:14:00 - [31] Originally by: Ch1pmunk Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 16/03/2009 15:56:58 ..... if the salvage setup worked the way some are thinking.... well... noone would have the skill past lvl 1 and noone would boy the rigs and noone would buy t2. it just wouldnt be woth the millions of isk Why sure you would train past level 1, because you can not salvage tech II wrecks under skill level 3. Other than speed, there is no need to train above level 3 ___ Quote from Karrade Krise concerning stealth bombers: "I felt a disturbance in the Expansion...it was as if millions of people /facepalmed....and were suddenly Nerfed."
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.03.16 16:53:00 - [32] Originally by: Absolom Hues Originally by: Ch1pmunk Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 16/03/2009 15:56:58 ..... if the salvage setup worked the way some are thinking.... well... noone would have the skill past lvl 1 and noone would boy the rigs and noone would buy t2. it just wouldnt be woth the millions of isk Why sure you would train past level 1, because you can not salvage tech II wrecks under skill level 3. Other than speed, there is no need to train above level 3 Umm, but speed is ALL important, at least when it comes to PvE salvaging.
Forumz Warrior	Posted - 2009.03.16 17:17:00 - [33] Even in PVP speed is important. Gang is not going to sit and wait while you salvage t2 hulls Level 4 is a reasonable train. My utility char has had it to 5 for a long time, so the t2 salvagers were a welcome addition.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.16 22:08:00 - [34] Edited by: Whitehound on 16/03/2009 22:09:36 Originally by: Ch1pmunk lol everyone is saying all the salvage mods and skills do is let u salvage faster..... if this is tru... there is no point in training the skill to lvl 5... and no point in buying the rigs.... and no point in t2.... all u need is 4-6 T1s and it all works out the same. of course... this is false. Thanks. I was under the same impression that there is a bit more complexity to it than just speed and that one gets a bit more out of it the higher the level gets. One actually needs salvaging at level 3 to salvage a wreck of a faction ship and that is not even in the skill's description. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
ServantOfMask Minmatar The New Order. United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.17 11:19:00 - [35] Edited by: ServantOfMask on 17/03/2009 11:20:04 /sigh the ONLY thing salvage Skill, Salvager Modules and Salvage Rigs do is increase your odds of successfully accessing (ie. salvaging) a wreck. they DO NOT, let me repeat that, DO NOT increase the Yield of salvaged components you get out of a wreck. did everyone who was hazy on the subject get that? Yield is random! Every ship spawns a certain wreck or type of wreck (i don't own the database so i cant be certain which), which has a loot table attached, the game chooses randomly from that loot table once you successfully salvage a wreck. i speak out of 2yrs or so of experience, having salvaged my lvl 3 and 4 missions, Faction spawns, T2 wrecks since day 1 of salvaging being introduced. and just for kicks, TII wrecks used to require Salvaging Lvl 4 originally same as faction wrecks, that has been lowered to 3. i do however use a catalyst with 3 salvage tackle rigs because it makes everything a 1 cycle salvage with T1 salvagers, yes even TII. Personally i dont see the point in TII's unless you cant/wont rig but want a slightly faster success and move on to the next wreck. Fly Safe edit: i wish it did increase yield too, but that is still a pipedream until ccp patches and makes me a liar out of spite
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.03.17 11:53:00 - [36] Originally by: Ch1pmunk Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 16/03/2009 15:56:58 lol everyone is saying all the salvage mods and skills do is let u salvage faster..... if this is tru... there is no point in training the skill to lvl 5... and no point in buying the rigs.... and no point in t2.... all u need is 4-6 T1s and it all works out the same. of course... this is false. a character with lvl 1 salvage skill will never get the same amount of salvage as the guy with salvage lvl 5. also, adding salvage rigs will give you just a lil more salvage. and then, adding t2 salvagers will raise it just a lil more. what u get is a dice role. how much u get is a dice role, but the % makes the odds much much better. the t2 also makes he mods a lil faster. of course it does. time of activation is listed in description. if the salvage setup worked the way some are thinking.... well... noone would have the skill past lvl 1 and noone would boy the rigs and noone would buy t2. it just wouldnt be woth the millions of isk I'm sorry but you're wrong. If you have 4-6 T1 salvagers then you're (partially) right, there is 'little' reason to train past level 3 (needed to salvage elite wrecks). However many people only have 1-2 salvagers, in which case being able to salvage twice as fast means they get to either free up a slot or two or salvage twice as much in the same time. Even though the per WRECK yield is the same, the per HOUR yield will be higher, regardless. This is rather like you saying that since mining skills increase the yield you get, they're pointless because it doesn't give you better ore. The salvage is all pre determined along with the loot when the wreck is created, it's an attribute of that wreck and generated from the loot table. The dice roll you get when you salvage, is simply one to determine if this attempt is successful. The dice roll you get to determine the amount of salvage is rolled when the wreck is generated.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.03.17 12:22:00 - [37] It took me twelve minutes to salvage a Shadow Serp cruiser wreck with a single Salvager I and Salvage IV with my little unrigged plex runner Hawk. Yep, twelve minutes. I killed it first and started my Salvager on it while I killed the rest of the stuff then sat around for another ten minutes waiting. I'll get that Salvager II eventually Originally by: Wet Ferret What I don't get is how "5% increase in chance of salvage retrieval per level." equates to 100% bonus to Salvager module effectiveness. Where, exactly, does the 5% from the skill come into play? But can someone answer this? Or is it just a mystery to everyone... But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.03.17 13:03:00 - [38] Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/03/2009 13:02:44 Originally by: Wet Ferret But can someone answer this? Or is it just a mystery to everyone... JCache already told us in post #10 how it works, and so we could deduce that the skill desciption, as is not uncommon, is misleading, at best.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.17 14:11:00 - [39] Originally by: ServantOfMask Yield is random! And that is where you are wrong. Take it from me - I studied mathematics - and there is not just one single form of randomness. You probably know it and might just have forgotten about the distribution of a random event. The salvaged materials are then not evenly distributed but some drop more often than others. After two years of salvaging, as you say, will you be salvaging with the same level in salvaging most of the time, which is why the yield appears uniformly random to you. I just recently increased my level from 2 to 3 and I do seem to get a bit more out of the wrecks now. The randomness just makes it very difficult to come up with solid proof. To bring solid proof does it take a statistical analysis and not another pointless argument. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
OneSock Crown Industries	Posted - 2009.03.17 14:52:00 - [40] I personally think there is more to it than meets the eye... I reckon that per salvager, chance to salvage is higher on an un-rigged Marauder than it is say for a rigged out salvage destroyer. Personally I will be buying T2 Salvagers, if only so I can drop a salvager for a tractor beam.

Absolom Hues Gallente The Triangle Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.17 15:00:00 - [41] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: ServantOfMask Yield is random! .... I just recently increased my level from 2 to 3 and I do seem to get a bit more out of the wrecks now.... Quote: You are arguing aginst ServantOfMask explanation about it being random, but all you can offer is that you "seem to get a bit more"? I suggest you train from level 3 to 5 and see if you get 3 times that "bit" more, whatever that means. ___ Quote from Karrade Krise concerning stealth bombers: "I felt a disturbance in the Expansion...it was as if millions of people /facepalmed....and were suddenly Nerfed."
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.17 15:13:00 - [42] Originally by: Absolom Hues You are arguing aginst ServantOfMask explanation about it being random, but all you can offer is that you "seem to get a bit more"? I suggest you train from level 3 to 5 and see if you get 3 times that "bit" more, whatever that means. lol No, I am not arguing. I think it is pointless to argue. You seem to have missed that part completely. One question, however, remains. What makes you think that going from 3 to 5 could increase the yield by 300%? I cannot wait to see your response! -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
Ch1pmunk	Posted - 2009.03.17 15:54:00 - [43] Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 17/03/2009 15:54:20 ROFL!!!! ok if anyone who is not a noob and actually has salvage lvl 5 wants to see if u get more salvage with the rigs and salvager 2, then try this: salvage 10-20 lvl 2 missions with a T1 unrigged ship(because lvl 2 is quick and has more ships than lvl) note the number of ships. then salvage 10-20 more (whatever number u used with the first test) with a dedicated salvage vessel, u know 2 tractor beams 4-6 salvager 2 and 3 salvage rigs. now.... since u used 10-20 missions and noted the number of ships, u can do averages (u learned it in grade 5 i believe?) now, disregarding the time it took to salvage (not refuting its quicker in a dedicated ship) did it actually yield more salvage with either setup? or was it around the same? PLEASE! NO MORE AGREE OR DISAGREE POST TIL ONE OF U ACTUALLY RUN A TEST!!! the least u could do is know what u r talking about lol
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.03.17 16:11:00 - [44] Originally by: Ch1pmunk PLEASE! NO MORE AGREE OR DISAGREE POST TIL ONE OF U ACTUALLY RUN A TEST!!! the least u could do is know what u r talking about lol Those tests were done when salvage was introduced. No improvement in salvage by raising the skill, using the implant and/or the rig. Devs back then confirmed it only helps you opening the "box" and does not influence the contents. Having said this, I know full well the conspiracy theorists will not let this issue lie and add a couple more pages to this thread and to new ones in the future each time someone asks how the salvage skill works. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Ch1pmunk	Posted - 2009.03.17 17:13:00 - [45] wow... someone who didnt do any work for themselves.... commenting on something they heard from someone who hard.... that some devs did something.... wow.... stuff has changed (if what u think is true.. is...). i did run some test. 6 months ago i did run many lvl 2s(raising standings) and salvaged then with a normal ship and then did the same with my salvage ship.... there was alot more salvage from my salvage ship... than there was from my other ship.... i havent done this with the t2 salvagers yet, but i am going to as soon as i get the time. would someone who actually knows how to list results run this test? if nothing else, its a good way to raise ur standings with a new company.
Amarrian Alt	Posted - 2009.03.17 17:26:00 - [46] Originally by: Whitehound Take it from me - I studied mathematics - and there is not just one single form of randomness. What about Quantum mechanics?
Karc Thule Minmatar Mine-X	Posted - 2009.03.17 17:34:00 - [47] Dis ridiculous! New salvager doesn't give more salvage per wreck, just better. Like 50 trit bars last I checked. Test it yerself. I wouldn't have spent the time and money getting T2 if dis not true! No seriously, I'd love to see some evidence (against the word of the devs). Ch1pmunk, I'd like to modify your test so the results are verifiable. Saying you made 5 mil doing 15 lvl 2's still leaves a ton of variables and room for dispute. What we are really looking for is, market conditions being equal, isk per wreck. Some better results might be in the following form: Salvaged 20 wrecks of [Specific Ship]. With Rigs/T2: 10 [Salvage Item] 8 [Salvage Item] 15 [Salvage Item] Without Rigs/T2: 11 [Salvage Item] 8 [Salvage Item] 13 [Salvage Item] With Rigs/T2 Value: 10.32 mil Without Rigs/T2 Value: 10.21 mil (All items sold at the same price respectively.) _________________________________________ "I am the astronaut of boxing." -Muhammad Ali
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.17 18:13:00 - [48] Edited by: Whitehound on 17/03/2009 18:14:20 Originally by: Amarrian Alt What about Quantum mechanics? lol Go ahead, ... and apply quantum mechanics to salvaging!!!!! -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
Absolom Hues Gallente The Triangle Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.17 18:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Whitehound One question, however, remains. What makes you think that going from 3 to 5 could increase the yield to 300%? I cannot wait to see your response! First I never said going form level 3 to 5 would give 300% increase in salvage. But if you insist on an explanation: S2 = salvage amount at level 2 skill b = "bit" you described in your original conversation. After you trained to level 3 skill your formula looks like this: s2 + b = new salvage amount. If this is true, then wouldn't the new formula look something like this for level 5 skill? s2 + (b * 3) = new salvage amount Thus the 3 * "bit" statement I made earlier should be quantifiable if your experience is true. Never-the-less I believe all the skill does is increase your salvage speed... and not the quantity salvaged. ___ Quote from Karrade Krise concerning stealth bombers: "I felt a disturbance in the Expansion...it was as if millions of people /facepalmed....and were suddenly Nerfed."
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.17 18:31:00 - [50] This thread is absolutely hilarious. People, your ignorance is showing. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.

Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.17 18:33:00 - [51] Edited by: Whitehound on 17/03/2009 18:33:36 Originally by: Absolom Hues But if you insist on an explanation: No, I was not insisting on an explanation. I already knew that you got me wrong and was only joking. Our problem right now is that we need someone who can bring facts. Someone who is about to train salvaging to the next level and is willing to do an analysis. We all have our little beliefs. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
FT Diomedes Gallente Titan Industries Technology Team	Posted - 2009.03.18 04:47:00 - [52] Edited by: FT Diomedes on 18/03/2009 04:47:56 The level of stupidity in this thread has me thinking someone is trolling. It is well-known, and I have tested it extensively over the years, that increasing your salvaging skill (access difficulty bonus) does not increase the amount of salvage you get, it only makes it easier to access what is in the wreck. Perhaps you could study the wreck salvaging database (search for it) and see for yourself the compiled results of thousands of mission runners. Each mission generally drops the same amount of salvage on average, regardless of the skill of the person salvaging it. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.03.18 09:10:00 - [53] Originally by: Ch1pmunk wow... someone who didnt do any work for themselves.... commenting on something they heard from someone who hard.... that some devs did something.... wow.... Nope. Didn't hear any of it. Read the posted results. Read the dev replies. With my own two eyes. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Glarion Garnier The Scope	Posted - 2009.03.18 09:15:00 - [54] Tech 2 should increase the range to 6500 - 7500 IMO. 6000 is bit on the low side. _________________________________ -be vary of the men behind the curtain-
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.18 10:22:00 - [55] Edited by: Whitehound on 18/03/2009 10:26:33 Originally by: FT Diomedes Edited by: FT Diomedes on 18/03/2009 04:47:56 The level of stupidity in this thread has me thinking someone is trolling. ... Perhaps you could study the wreck salvaging database ... lol When do you people stop making funny comments? You are confusing stupid with persistent and only to insult others, you know? Most people who have read this thread will not even search for this database because of the way you present this bit of information. And thanks for the info on the wreck salvage database. It lists each count of wreckage material for each mission of EVE. That is some serious detail! However, because of this high amount of detail is the survey lacking in representative numbers. It is useless at this stage. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.18 10:30:00 - [56] Edited by: Benco97 on 18/03/2009 10:31:20 Whitehound, this has all been covered in the past and the results were that salvage yield is not altered by respective skill levels. You are free to continue to think that it does but please tone down the tantrum if you won't accept that you are wrong. Nobody cares that you're wrong, you'll not lose face or become less popular for admitting it, actually, a man who can admit his mistakes and learn from them is a good man in my opinion. I know I've presented no factual evidence to back up what I'm writing but I can assure you that the others and myself are correct on this issue, I have no reason to lie to you and as I said earlier, all these tests have been performed in the past by people far more competent than I. In the end though, who really cares? Edited for idiocy Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.18 10:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Benco97 Whitehound, ... What? I suggest you leave the thread. It does not seem to interest you. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.18 11:10:00 - [58] Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 18/03/2009 10:48:42 What? I suggest you leave the thread. It does not seem to interest you. You fail to understand people's comments, you call them ignorant and rather like to believe that it all has been covered in the past. Where is there room for new evidence? You do not leave any. Just stop writing comments and only read the thread to see if any new information comes up. It has all been covered before though, it's hardly our fault that you didn't see it the first or second time it was brought up. You're right though, I'll take your advice and leave this thread to it's meanderings, It's not my job to educate. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.03.18 15:38:00 - [59] Originally by: Whitehound Where is there room for new evidence? Personal experience with current salvage and lack of salvage related posts on these forums are a clear indication nothing has changed since the initial tests. Therefore, there is no room needed for new evidence. Second we've got tired of posting all the relevant links to the proof 3,529 salvage threads ago. In closing: Where is your evidence, your proof that it has changed? All you're offering is a gut feeling. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2009.03.18 16:20:00 - [60] Chipmunk and Whitehound are apparently both fitted with full racks of "Forum Self-Pwner II." -------- [

Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.18 16:33:00 - [61] Edited by: Whitehound on 18/03/2009 16:35:19 Originally by: Washell Olivaw In closing: Where is your evidence, your proof that it has changed? All you're offering is a gut feeling. Where is your proof that it has not changed? All you have given us is a dumb judgement. If I wanted that I could have come up with it long time ago. Originally by: VJ Maverick Chipmunk and Whitehound are apparently both fitted with full racks of "Forum Self-Pwner II." Stay away from this thread if it is not of interest to you or if it doesn't give you anything! -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2009.03.18 17:19:00 - [62] On the contrary, this thread is of great interest, and it gives me what I need - a consistent supply of LOL's from self-proclaimed salvage "experts" who are too proud to know when to STFU and instead keep pontificating nonsense on game mechanics that have been thoroughly researched and understood for a very long time. This thread definitely delivers. -------- [
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.03.18 17:56:00 - [63] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Absolom Hues Originally by: Ch1pmunk Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 16/03/2009 15:56:58 ..... if the salvage setup worked the way some are thinking.... well... noone would have the skill past lvl 1 and noone would boy the rigs and noone would buy t2. it just wouldnt be woth the millions of isk Why sure you would train past level 1, because you can not salvage tech II wrecks under skill level 3. Other than speed, there is no need to train above level 3 Umm, but speed is ALL important, at least when it comes to PvE salvaging. And for that matter, ninja-salvaging a battlefield. If not more so.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.18 18:01:00 - [64] Originally by: VJ Maverick This thread definitely delivers. And you now delivered sarcasm. Do you know how to deliver anything new? Come back when you do, please. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
darkbluefirefly	Posted - 2009.03.22 22:41:00 - [65] HEY! Great posts all, until the like second half which made me lost dis-interest. one question. Why don't we get a dev to answer this question? After all, they did Developed EVE.. and they "Should" know how it works.. for the sake of clearing things up and not assuming things.
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.03.22 22:54:00 - [66] Originally by: Vindarten 1km means nothing if you're using tractor beams. What does it save you, a whole 2 seconds? Not worth it, especially because the bonus gets negated by having the Salvaging skill so high. Try to say that again when you are trying to salvage a Command ship wreck or a t3 ship wreck.... makes Huuuge difference.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.23 11:24:00 - [67] Originally by: darkbluefirefly Why don't we get a dev to answer this question? You better get a teacher. Here is a hint: think of ISK/hour or material/hour and it will not matter any more. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
Dmitryilyin Gallente Risky eXplosion Red Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.23 12:35:00 - [68] Edited by: Dmitryilyin on 23/03/2009 12:52:30 Edited by: Dmitryilyin on 23/03/2009 12:48:23 Edited by: Dmitryilyin on 23/03/2009 12:43:47 Originally by: Ch1pmunk Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 15/03/2009 02:49:31 55% chance to get more stuff when salvaging. (with rigs) Wait, you want to say that Salvage Tackle rigs does increase amount of items from salvaging? I thought that they increase chance to salvage wrack per try by 10 percent -> faster salvage time, but same income. So there is 3 theories: - Increase only percent to open "box" -> faster salvage - Increase amount of salvaged items. - > more isk per mission - Increase quality of salvaged items. - more isk per mission Can anyone say for shure which is right. I think that 1.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.23 15:27:00 - [69] Edited by: Whitehound on 23/03/2009 15:31:50 Originally by: Dmitryilyin Originally by: Ch1pmunk Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 15/03/2009 02:49:31 55% chance to get more stuff when salvaging. (with rigs) Wait, you want to say that Salvage Tackle rigs does increase amount of items from salvaging? You understand correctly, and it is what she said. Now, here is a fourth rule: - It increases the average amount of material while it decreases the average amount of time for a salvage. This is what you will get should the game call the random number generator for example twice - once for the access and once for what you receive. The first random number will decide if you are successful at accessing a wreck. The second one then determines what you get when you are successful. The second random number may still result in no materials being returned - or when the message says that you were successful at accessing the wreck but, unfortunately, nothing could be salvaged. It is very likely that the game uses multiple calls to the random number generator: 1.) A first call for the success or failure of an access 2.) A second call for the number of materials (only on success) 3.) A call for the type of each material (only on success and for one or more materials) Having more success means that one gets more material and is faster (on average). -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
Zaknussem Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.03.23 15:45:00 - [70] I am not an expert on Salvaging by any means, and I can only relate my experiences of salvaging in the hope that something solid comes of it and shut some people up. For the longest time I had Salvaging at III. During this time period I salvaged propably thousands of wrecks, most of them small rather than large. Since then I have trained Salvaging to V and upgraded by Salvagers to T2. Here are the facts I have gathered since then: # If you salvage a wreck of a Rookie Ship or a Shuttle, you only ever get 1 unit of Metal Scraps. # Even after I trained Salvaging up to V and got myself a Salvager II, this did not change. They still only give 1 unit of Metal Scraps. # T1 and T2 Frigate (player owned, not NPC wrecks) have a very high chance of giving only 1 unit of Metal Scraps. However, there is also a chance the wreck will also give a couple of units of salvage components. For T1 this can be as many as 4 units (though rarely that much) and up to 2 units for a T2 wreck. # Again, training up the Salvaging skill and upgrading the Salvager has not changed this for me. # What defines how much is salvaged from a wreck is the wreck's size, not your skill at Salvaging. Mercenary wrecks (Known in-game as "Generic Mission wreck") almost always give Metal Scraps, with Small wrecks giving 0-2 units, and Large wrecks as many as 16 units. # With the exceptions of the wreck type determining what types of salvage components you will get (as well as the odds of you getting a particular type of salvage component) and the wreck's size determining roughly how much you should get, the salvaging process is based on random number generation. Conclusion: I have not seen any evidence that suggests that a higher level of the Salvaging skill increases the amount of salvage received from wrecks. Quite the contrary, in fact. In addition, there is one other factor of Salvaging I would like to mention, but I do not have any hard facts on that. It is in regards to salvaging T2 wrecks. From what I've heard, salvaging T2 wrecks incurs a 10% penalty on your Salvaging chance, which is why you need at least Salvaging III when dealing with them (as that puts your base success rate at 15%). However, I do not know if you explicitly need Salvaging III for T2 wrecks, or merely a base success rate of 15%. Is it possible for someone with Salvaging at I or II to use a Salvage Tackle rig to salvage T2 wrecks to see whether this is the case? Also, does anyone here know of other wrecks (with certainty, not guesswork) that have a similar penalty to the Salvage success rate?

Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2009.03.23 16:13:00 - [71] Anybody else think the Salvager II should be able to load a script, that'll turn it into a 5km AoE? Then you'd just leave it going, and tractor all the wrecks closer to you. Imagine the typical Destroyer salvaging, with 7 tractors and 1 salvager...
Kaerik	Posted - 2009.03.23 16:28:00 - [72] I am amazed that this thread is still going and people are STILL wrong about it. Higher "access difficulty" percentage = greater chance to "unlock" a container each cycle. That's it, Contents are rolled when the container is spawned, not when it is accessed.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.23 17:06:00 - [73] Originally by: Zaknussem Conclusion: I have not seen any evidence that suggests that a higher level of the Salvaging skill increases the amount of salvage received from wrecks. Quite the contrary, in fact. Quite the contrary? Are you trying to tell people that it gives you less? Because that would be quite the contrary. Your conclusion is false. The amount that can be found in a single wreck does not increase, and no one has said that IIRC. The fact that you fail less often however will result in more retrievals regardless if you like it or not. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.03.23 17:19:00 - [74] Edited by: el caido on 23/03/2009 17:21:30 This is just sad. Each level of Salvaging and/or the extra chance bonus of a T2 Salvager only increases the speed of salvaging from a statistical standpoint. Nothing more, nothing less.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.03.23 17:21:00 - [75] Quote: I do agree. The time for training salvaging to level 5 will likely find a better use in some other skill. After all, before one can salvage a wreck does one need to create a wreck. Wrong.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.23 17:30:00 - [76] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: I do agree. The time for training salvaging to level 5 will likely find a better use in some other skill. After all, before one can salvage a wreck does one need to create a wreck. Wrong. No. You better put the time into some other skills, i.e. gunnery or learning, before you train salvaging to level 5. Or else you will have lots of rookies training the salvaging skill before they can use it. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.03.23 17:52:00 - [77] Edited by: Wet Ferret on 23/03/2009 17:52:56 Originally by: Whitehound No. You better put the time into some other skills, i.e. gunnery or learning, before you train salvaging to level 5. Or else you will have lots of rookies training the salvaging skill before they can use it. You're talking to a professional ninja salvager. Only skills he needs are navigation and salvaging edit - okay, and enough skills to fly a salvage ship obviously But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.03.23 18:03:00 - [78] Originally by: Wet Ferret You're talking to a professional ninja salvager. Only skills he needs are navigation and salvaging You got me there. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while.
Zaknussem Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.03.23 21:09:00 - [79] Originally by: Whitehound Quite the contrary? Are you trying to tell people that it gives you less? Because that would be quite the contrary.]/quote] Bad choice of words there on my half, sorry about that. What I was trying to say was that I had only seen evidence that the Salvaging skill had no effect upon how much salvage you got from a wreck.


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