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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:16:00 -
[601]
QQ more
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Zostera
Minmatar
Honour Bound
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:19:00 -
[602]
GM Grimmi has stated the reasons for allowing an alliance to recently change it's name. This has caused some concern in the player base over potential favouritism, and it seems to me that CCP do not understand why.
The explanation given is that a petition for a name change was raised by the disbanded alliance directors at the time of joining a new alliance. This highlights to me that the alliance directors has full knowledge at the time of joining that they would not continue to use the alliane name, why should this be important, well it is an indication of intent, intent to gain adavantage and not suffer the usual penalty for change.
Using the alliance chosing immediateley after being disbanded gave them a potential advantage by recovering soveriegnty in the speediest way possible. That sovereignty extended across several regions and more than 100 systems. The alliance concerned essentially made it clear that they were using a temporary alliance to regain soveriegnty as swiftly as possible, yet asked CCP to change a name they didn't like. It was at this point that the alliance should have chosen an alliance they were happy with and followed the process as others usually have to do.
Let us look at what would have happened had there not being sufficient military action to remove that swiftly regained soveriegnty. The alliance concerned would have gained a significant advantage by the regain, and yet not have to suffer the disadvantage of agreeing a new name and forming a new alliance, let alone the price of 1 Billion isk. Image if 100 systems had just changed name.
CCP GM Grimmi states that is delays at CCP which have made the process of change so slow, and essentially states that the name change could have happened sooner. Therefore I must ask was it CCP's intent to allow a name change at the time the alliance concerned was actually regaining sovereignty in more than 100 systems?
GM Grimmi also states that there is precedent for a name change. Having seen the "Stian empire" error and their subsequent denial of a free name change for what was clearly a typograhpical error, one free from mal-intent, I think that GM Grimmi is perhaps misinformed of previous policy on this point.
In summary, the statement by Grimmi says to me.
"We allowed 'Alliance X' to regain sovereignty using an alliance name which 'Alliance X' would not continue to use. CCP knew this because they petitioned the request for change almost two months ago as they swiftly regained sov. We don't feel that requiring them to lose sov now is appropriate because we really ought to have required it then. The action was limited to allowing them to regain sovereignty as swiftly as possible in the full knowledge that the new alliance was a sham. Any other alliance or corporation in the same position would get the same treatment, Stian empire can attest to that."
My concerns have been expressed via e-mail to [email protected]. I urge others to do so too.
It is irrelevant to me who 'Alliance X' actually is, also have they came to be disbanded due to poor management of their own internal affairs. My concern is simply this...
One rule for everyone.
Zos
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Razoq
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:23:00 -
[603]
Edited by: Razoq on 25/03/2009 10:24:23
 Originally by: Deva Blackfire
QQ more
you only get 5 seconds though!
Im not that optimistic.
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Gibmundur
Amarr
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:25:00 -
[604]
Did ccp ever change Stain Allaince, because Trigger made a typo and allot of ******s flamed him on the forums.
It's so old news that ccp favors bob anyways, yawns at this.
kibb |
F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:31:00 -
[605]
I'm constantly amazed at how CCP can make boneheaded moves again and again. They do something really stupid and you say to yourself, "Surely they can't do something worse (or at least as dumb)." And then they do.
It's like they've followed the Bill Clinton guide to problem solving (note that I'm a Democrat and voted for him twice, and would do so again, but I have no problem looking at his stupid decisions):
Bill: "Did we do anything wrong?"
Aide: "No."
Bill: "Cover it up anyway."
Now I'm not saying nothing wrong was done here, because it seems to me and others that it was, but I hope you get the idea of how it's farcical sort of parallel.
CCP dev: "Did we do anything wrong?"
GM: "Yes, and everyone knows it."
dev: "OK, give them some lame-ass excuse that even a blind, deaf child with an IQ of 40 could poke holes in."
It all comes to the same thing, as we've seen before: player outrage over something really stupid and unneeded.
I will give CCP credit for screwing up in a new and interesting way. In the past, most of their big mistakes have been from my first little drama: What happened? This. OK, let's not just say what happened and no one will care. The past transgressions usually weren't even a "We made a mistake" sort of scenario, they were the, "Let's completely overreact and just not tell them how things played out so they'll see there wasn't an actual problem, that way they'll overreact even more and threadnaught about it until we finally do explain what really happened and everyone will be happy." The Moon Mining fiasco seemed to show they had learned from this. Apparently whoever handled that is on vacation right now.
Note that I don't like BOB or Goons, and generally don't give a frak what they do or happens to them. But I do care when something incredibly stupid happens that is so overwhelmingly contrary to everything that has happened before.
I hope CCP comes to their senses and gives an actual explanation of things. I don't care if it's "We screwed up and will make things right" or "Here is the evidence to back up our move." Clearly neither has happened yet.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
Originally by: Chribba
Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero!  /me bows
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cheese monkey
SiN. Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:38:00 -
[606]
OMG you whiners. Your becoming the exact thing you claim to hate. Stop whining and go with it! I am SURE worse things have happened in game that a fuking name change. There you go CCP has even said that they will do the same thing for you if it happens.
This is for all those people that replied to this thread with a long self righteous post about how CCP and BoB are evil.
Closure
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Lt Angus
Caldari
End Game.
Dead End.
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:48:00 -
[607]
I really envy people whos lives are so perfect that the name of an alliance is this important to them
please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Swamp Trader
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:49:00 -
[608]
Originally by: HARYBARY
I make new post with an idea for using "Band of Developers" instead "Band of Brothers Realoded" but topic was locked 12 min later. WHY I"M NOT SURPRISED 
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1033227
Because YOU are the internet police, and you have spotted a wrong doing here and now you feel the EPIC need of GLOBALY police us all into correct CCP with mass posts.
And you will deny that it has notting to do with the fact your spooning with 70% of eve to remove BOB :r, So as misstreted you may feel ill point you in this direction BOB:r
And can i have your stuff? because a recreational videogame like eve cant be making you so angry?
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Vli Vli
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:50:00 -
[609]
Everyone should just spam petitions to get their names changed.
If a few thousand come pouring in, I believe CCP would get the drift.
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bloody johnroberts
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:53:00 -
[610]
Posted - 2009.03.25 10:38:00 - [604] - Quote
Report
OMG you whiners. Your becoming the exact thing you claim to hate. Stop whining and go with it! I am SURE worse things have happened in game that a fuking name change. There you go CCP has even said that they will do the same thing for you if it happens.
This is for all those people that replied to this thread with a long self righteous post about how CCP and BoB are evil.
lol another pet what are you hoping for in the dev stocking this year a bpo !!!!!!
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Freedom From Fear Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:53:00 -
[611]
Originally by: Garathyal
18 pages and still going strong. Good to see some people (a teeny weeny minority are putting their money where their mouth is). The storm in the tea cup will be resurrected in a few months after the minutes of the next interstellar council are released. At this meeting I predict that the Goons voted representative will get himself all tied up in knots and fail especially since it is real life politics.
In the meantime they will continue to play the game griefing as many as they can.
i'm sorry, how exactly does ccp cheating, again, for tafkabob, involve goons? the goons did not perform the cheating, nor did the goons benefit from said cheating.
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Alexander Nergal
Three Pony
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:56:00 -
[612]
Originally by: GM Grimmi
We have previously changed names provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe and the situation warranted such action.
What are the factors that make the situation 'warrent such action'? What is a reasonble timeframe (days/weeks/months?) These need to be spelt out EXACTLY so that other alliances can use these new rules to change their name if need be.
The action of changing KenZoku's name may not be favoritism if it is a new precent which other people can use, however, applying secret GM rules to a situation and then not telling people what they are IS favoritism.
Originally by: GM Grimmi
Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment.
Is that situation your alliance being disbanded by a rogue director? By a goon? Do you have to have a certain amount of relevency in Eve politics or a minimum amount of members? Can a 10-man empire alliance use a petition to get their name changed if a similar event happends to them?
The new name change policy that GM Grimmi has created (I say new because noone has been able to come up with a precedent and none has been provided) needs to be spelt out so others can use it.
Untill then it is favoritism. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Freedom From Fear Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:56:00 -
[613]
Originally by: cheese monkey
OMG you whiners. Your becoming the exact thing you claim to hate. Stop whining and go with it! I am SURE worse things have happened in game that a fuking name change. There you go CCP has even said that they will do the same thing for you if it happens.
This is for all those people that replied to this thread with a long self righteous post about how CCP and BoB are evil.
Closure
they will do what same thing? give an alliance a name change for no actual reason and cause them to not reset sov?
cuz um, they don't seem to have done that yet, with one exception.
oh wait, you're lying or stupid. my bad. you got me. |
ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:00:00 -
[614]
i have no idea why ccp desided to change the name like they did, when bob could have taken 24 hours longer when they lost the alliance in the first place to get a new name they wanted.
however, whats done is done, and there is no bloody reason for the rest of eve to whine about it like they do. just get over it.
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Kira Direll
Niflhel
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:03:00 -
[615]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Xrak
Oh but it is all about us. If this were some small alliance that was claiming 2 systems in some crap region, no one would give a crap, but it's the big bad BoB so everyone has to cry and whine a bit to make themselves feel like the ebil man at CCP is actively working against them.
But if CCP were willing to change the name of some nobody alliance, that would imply that they would do it for any alliance, and thus there would be no issue in the first place.
Ah, but would you know about some "Nobody-Alliance" or Corp that got their name changed? I mean, if its this unknown.
---
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kiez'm Hahz
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:09:00 -
[616]
This game is corrupt.... And I'm not talking about damaged files....
Sad.
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:12:00 -
[617]
Originally by: F'nog
It all comes to the same thing, as we've seen before: player outrage over something really stupid and unneeded.
I agree with most of the words - but I think it's some players outrage about this that really is stupid and unneeded.
I say "some" players because outrage on the forum doesn't tell us much about overall player opinion. Most players never post here - many don't even read the forums regularly. And it is the most outraged players that are most likely to post (self-selectiion is bad for statistics - mkay).
When there's a typo like in Stain Allaince - then sure - fix that too via petition.
It's hard to think of something more needless and stupid than having to fix an alliance name.
And no - fixing a typo in an alliance name is not the same as changing char names.
The only thing that is special about BOBR is that they shouldn't have lost their alliance in the first place. That was a silly hole in alliance mechanics and it was too late to fix that particular damage (Goons - for lulz - already grabbed the name of course :-) ). So the next best thing is to rename the replacement alliance. Fine with me. Least cost way of fixing a stupid problem.
Should a GM in the past have made a different decision about fixing an alliance name than that past decision was wrong - not the current one. Anybody that had to re-create an alliance just to fix a typo in name should get their 1 bn back.
No - I'm not a BOB alt. I'm not affiliated with them or even trade with them AFAIK. Just not small-minded.
---
Save the forum: Think before you post.
ISK BUYER = LOSER
EVE TV- Bring it back!
Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:16:00 -
[618]
Originally by: kiez'm Hahz
This game is corrupt.... And I'm not talking about damaged files....
Sad.
Hyperbole and BS.
Get over it and aquire a sense of proportion.
Oh and if you really believe that then you are about to quit - but I don't want your stuff - it's tainted with Hyperbolic Whining - give it to one of those who'll ask for it when you write your emoragequit good-bye message.
Welcome back next year when you calmed down and realized that this ain't the big deal you think it is.
---
Save the forum: Think before you post.
ISK BUYER = LOSER
EVE TV- Bring it back!
Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:19:00 -
[619]
Originally by: Kira Direll
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Xrak
Oh but it is all about us. If this were some small alliance that was claiming 2 systems in some crap region, no one would give a crap, but it's the big bad BoB so everyone has to cry and whine a bit to make themselves feel like the ebil man at CCP is actively working against them.
But if CCP were willing to change the name of some nobody alliance, that would imply that they would do it for any alliance, and thus there would be no issue in the first place.
Ah, but would you know about some "Nobody-Alliance" or Corp that got their name changed? I mean, if its this unknown.
CCP would, having done the change. And if they could so simply show this precedent, why have they chosen not to? Not to mention the anecdotal evidence of people being denied changes.
-
DesuSigs |
kiez'm Hahz
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:20:00 -
[620]
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: kiez'm Hahz
This game is corrupt.... And I'm not talking about damaged files....
Sad.
Hyperbole and BS.
Get over it and aquire a sense of proportion.
Oh and if you really believe that then you are about to quit - but I don't want your stuff - it's tainted with Hyperbolic Whining - give it to one of those who'll ask for it when you write your emoragequit good-bye message.
Welcome back next year when you calmed down and realized that this ain't the big deal you think it is.
Yeah.... Free hand-outs from the dev team isn't a big deal... lol idiot.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:22:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Glengrant
The only thing that is special about BOBR is that they shouldn't have lost their alliance in the first place.
The rules are what are and aren't, not what should and shouldn't.
Originally by: Glengrant
Should a GM in the past have made a different decision about fixing an alliance name than that past decision was wrong - not the current one.
And it was just coincidence that it was BoB who were the first to benefit from this change of heart?
-
DesuSigs |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:25:00 -
[622]
Originally by: kiez'm Hahz
Yeah.... Free hand-outs from the dev team isn't a big deal... lol idiot.
Because getting their name changed got them also bns of isk and 100s of capital ships ...
No wait - thinking about it for a moment I realize they got 0 material benefits out of this. They got a few letters changed.
Wow - the sky is falling for sure.
---
Save the forum: Think before you post.
ISK BUYER = LOSER
EVE TV- Bring it back!
Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE |
Butternut Squash
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:30:00 -
[623]
Edited by: Butternut Squash on 25/03/2009 11:32:39
To those who say this is simply a name change ... think again.
This is about an alliance (history irrelevant) being allowed to maintain sovereignty when others have previously been denied. The name change was simply the mechanism used to break the rules.
Maintaining Sovereignty under such circumstances has a massive knock on effect and effectively puts billions/trillions of ISK into the wallets of Kenzoku ... factor in the fact that the self same group of players have had favouritism shown to them in the past and maybe now you understand why the majority of the playerbase are sick and tired of having to play with one hand tied behind their back.
I say if the name is so important to them ... let them change it ... but they lose Sov.
Butters
I am jealous of my wife ... she already has a titan :D |
Turrell 1
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:34:00 -
[624]
Edited by: Turrell 1 on 25/03/2009 11:34:54
To goonwhines... go play the game.
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:35:00 -
[625]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Glengrant
The only thing that is special about BOBR is that they shouldn't have lost their alliance in the first place.
The rules are what are and aren't, not what should and shouldn't.
And petitions have existed from the beginning of EVE to fix stuff that has gone wrong.
Originally by: Glengrant
Should a GM in the past have made a different decision about fixing an alliance name than that past decision was wrong - not the current one.
And it was just coincidence that it was BoB who were the first to benefit from this change of heart?
Please enumerate the list of other alliances that lost their alliances to a similar defect in the mechanics.
Any other alliances people would get so worked up about?
Wait a sec - if the same thing would happened to your alliance - do you want to tell me that you wouldn't have written an agry petition ("WTF - alliance dissolved right away when I need to wait 24 hours to kick out a corp thief?") and asked/demanded to get things fixed as much as still possible?
I would have.
Get things in perspective - a few letters got changed.
Upside - we can all recognize our infamous BoB as BoB.
Downside - err - what exactly?
Given the choice between loosing sov (again) and keeping the Kenny name "BoB" would surely have done the latter.
So the decision does not affect material worth.
It's just a name change. Very helpful for noobs who can recognize BoB as Bob instead of being confused why that cute Kenny alliance is still being called BoB by others.
---
Save the forum: Think before you post.
ISK BUYER = LOSER
EVE TV- Bring it back!
Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE |
Tlar Sanqua
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:37:00 -
[626]
As a neutral in the matter, I have to say that this is a very bad and poor decision by CCP and I hope that they withdraw what appears to be obvious favoritism as soon as possible.
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Enop
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:42:00 -
[627]
Fuel for fire 
I don't think this goes far enough. The BoB corporation in Goonswarm is clearly a parody/impersonation of BoB alliance, and under the EULA isn't allowed.
BoB Alliance was dead when BoB Corp was created.
Elvis is dead, but people still impersonate him. Being dead/disbanded doesn't mean you cant be parody/impersonated.
BoB Corp is a vital corp in Goonswarm.
Then why are most of the characters parody/impersonations of BoB characters?
BoB corp should be disbanded under the parody/impersonation EULA clause and returned to BoB/Kenny. 
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Demoral Dave
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:49:00 -
[628]
Is the name change a big deal? NO
Is it fair to other entities in EVE given the history of similar situations? Definately NO
At this time CCP should take the little credibility they have left and write another internal memo for employers to stay OUT of ingame developments unless rules are clearly being broken.
There's a reason why so many people dislike the situation. It's not fun to play the game when you cant trust that rules are same for everyone. Be it a big matter like spawning BPO's or small thing like name change, it's unfair just the same.
One set of rules for everyone and everything will work out nicely. Bend rules for one entity and you can just as well throw the whole rule set out of your window.
...And it's really as simple as that. 
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Krenu
Draconian Enforcers Available To Hire
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:52:00 -
[629]
First off, Id like to as to CCP
You guys do an excellent job at your game. The past issues with said ccp members and their interaction to bob is not your fault, It is left in the hands of those who violated the rules, and for that they were punished. On all accounts you have done what is right, granted you were in a hard situation. the truth is anyone would of taken those advantages even the most honest players, even though they say they would not, don't mind them.
Next, to address the spying
It has always been my opinion that spying in this game will ultimately lead to its downfall if it has not prevent its growth already. As such i feel ccp needs to take a stance on this subject, and ban all players involved in this, but thats just not a logical thing, none the less i feel its important.
Next, to address the bob / Kenzoku name change
They have a right to a name! its their alliance, and goons stole something from them that was important to them, A name is unique it helps define a player(s) and or person(s). I do not hide on alts, i voice my opinion freely, because i dont care what others thing, I am a bob supporter, and i will always be one. They have the right to their name, Goons you are only gloating over it because you cannot hold that chip over their head.
To goons,
Its been a long time since iv thought of myself expressing hate to someone. Id like to believe i became evolved, and unable to express this emotion, while that is mostly true, I will state the following for what ever shred of hate is left with in me.
you are a plague to the gaming community, your thieft, Scamming, And our right level of stupidity brings this game down. as such i am petitioning Ccp remove you from this game, even your allies dont like you, and you are ruining our game, that we enjoy.
Leave this game, and go ruin something else we do not want you here. We refuse to left you bring out our game, which we have invested years in patient and play time / stubs in. i for one will not sit here and let you ruin it. at every chance i get i make sure your alts in jita cannot spam. you are the biggest joke, plague, virus in the history of mmmos, and mankind itself.
as such here is an official petition to ccp which can be found at the following:
-dare to be different,dare to be bold side with bob.
Kren
This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them; |
1Of9
Gallente
The Circle
|
Posted - 2009.03.25 11:55:00 -
[630]
Originally by: Tobruk
I don't think CCP has a full appreciation of how dangerous a situation like this is to their game.
It is so ungodly frustrating to fight an entity in game that has developer support, its like your fighting the game itself. How long will we tolerate this ****??
Is it time for another open letter to CCP? no, its already gone past that point.
Frankly I find this **** too hard to stomach:
- spawning BPOS
- Handing out motherships
- Changing the titan memorial rules when molles titan died
- refunding titans after saying they never would
2 Titans in game died to "broken mechanics" 1 AZN and 1 D2 both pilots petitioned the loss but no exception was given. A good policy. The game has rules, they can change, but until then we live, fly, and die by them.
People care that its BOB you did it for, because you have a LONG history of doing them special favors, but it really doesnÆt matter that its BOB, most people recognize that. It matters that YOU broke the rules and gave someone special treatment. WhatÆs even more insulting is that you changed their name to Band of Brothers Reloaded, as though, by not giving them their original name back somehow it would be ok. How stupid do you think we are? What a disgusting insult.
This action is shameful beyond words CCP. Your failure to act last time and your continued, blatant cheating is a slap in the face to every person who plays the game.
you tears ..... delicious! yummy
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