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Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.25 11:57:00 - [631] Originally by: Glengrant And petitions have existed from the beginning of EVE to fix stuff that has gone wrong. This petition was to undo a choice BoB made. Originally by: Glengrant Please enumerate the list of other alliances that lost their alliances to a similar defect in the mechanics. Please point out where a GM or Dev is specific enough to say that changes will be made in the case of an alliance name lost to a supposed defect in the mechanics? And I wonder why similar remuneration is not made in other cases of people losing things to mechanics which are changed shortly thereafter? Incidentally, has this 'defect' actually been changed? Originally by: Glengrant Get things in perspective - a few letters got changed. Upside - we can all recognize our infamous BoB as BoB. Downside - err - what exactly? CCP show themselves to favor BoB again. Pay attention. - DesuSigs
Julia Maesa Caldari Oddball Technologies	Posted - 2009.03.25 11:58:00 - [632] Aren't all these threads and pages within threads a little bit of an over reaction to an Alliance being allowed to rename itself? Seems to me people take this game a little to seriously.
Turrell 1	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:05:00 - [633] Edited by: Turrell 1 on 25/03/2009 12:05:38 Originally by: Julia Maesa Aren't all these threads and pages within threads a little bit of an over reaction to an Alliance being allowed to rename itself? Seems to me people take this game a little to seriously. Totally agree... seems goonswhine had thier pee pee stepped on... 1800whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Edit: w00t for page 22...
HSDREAD Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:05:00 - [634] Ok CCP simply tell us when this has been done before. A simple answer would solve this issue in my mind at least.
Bruminam	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:07:00 - [635] Originally by: F'nog I'm constantly amazed at how CCP can make boneheaded moves again and again. They do something really stupid and you say to yourself, "Surely they can't do something worse (or at least as dumb)." And then they do. It's like they've followed the Bill Clinton guide to problem solving (note that I'm a Democrat and voted for him twice, and would do so again, but I have no problem looking at his stupid decisions): Bill: "Did we do anything wrong?" Aide: "No." Bill: "Cover it up anyway." Now I'm not saying nothing wrong was done here, because it seems to me and others that it was, but I hope you get the idea of how it's farcical sort of parallel. CCP dev: "Did we do anything wrong?" GM: "Yes, and everyone knows it." dev: "OK, give them some lame-ass excuse that even a blind, deaf child with an IQ of 40 could poke holes in." It all comes to the same thing, as we've seen before: player outrage over something really stupid and unneeded. I will give CCP credit for screwing up in a new and interesting way. In the past, most of their big mistakes have been from my first little drama: What happened? This. OK, let's not just say what happened and no one will care. The past transgressions usually weren't even a "We made a mistake" sort of scenario, they were the, "Let's completely overreact and just not tell them how things played out so they'll see there wasn't an actual problem, that way they'll overreact even more and threadnaught about it until we finally do explain what really happened and everyone will be happy." The Moon Mining fiasco seemed to show they had learned from this. Apparently whoever handled that is on vacation right now. Note that I don't like BOB or Goons, and generally don't give a frak what they do or happens to them. But I do care when something incredibly stupid happens that is so overwhelmingly contrary to everything that has happened before. I hope CCP comes to their senses and gives an actual explanation of things. I don't care if it's "We screwed up and will make things right" or "Here is the evidence to back up our move." Clearly neither has happened yet. This is a good post. But the major concern goes much further than that. If people at CCP are doing such highly visible favors for BoB then they are, without doubt, doing many much less visible favors that no-one gets to know about.
Valkazm Amarr Russian Specnaz Red Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:10:00 - [636] Edited by: Valkazm on 25/03/2009 12:11:35 its all about who were talking about this is infact BoB who have had incidents before that they are somehow GM devs or backed by such . And then of course after the scandal etc now this im sure there are several alliances that would like to be ablee to change there name so if one alliance is allowed to give a 48 hours time frame for others to have the exackt same abillity . Otherwise its just another complete screw up by ccp .
Kryss Stevenson Caldari GMS Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:16:00 - [637] Has anyone actually read the terms of service and not just the parts that they want to read? If CCP actually follows that more than half of the people here would be banned instantly. They can change it when they want and we can say "yes, we agree" or "No, we don't" our choice if we want to live with the change or not.
Kira Direll Niflhel	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:17:00 - [638] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Kira Direll Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Xrak Oh but it is all about us. If this were some small alliance that was claiming 2 systems in some crap region, no one would give a crap, but it's the big bad BoB so everyone has to cry and whine a bit to make themselves feel like the ebil man at CCP is actively working against them. But if CCP were willing to change the name of some nobody alliance, that would imply that they would do it for any alliance, and thus there would be no issue in the first place. Ah, but would you know about some "Nobody-Alliance" or Corp that got their name changed? I mean, if its this unknown. CCP would, having done the change. And if they could so simply show this precedent, why have they chosen not to? Not to mention the anecdotal evidence of people being denied changes. Perhaps they don't see this "issue" worth the time to dig out some precedent. I mean, _you_ say there are no precedents, so i guess _you_ would have to prove it or leave room for "not guilty until proven guilty" in _this_ case. All i'm saying is: I have the urgent feeling that this "issue" is _made_ big by (eve-o)politicians. It's metagame. It's fighting an alliance via the forum. And it's really funny to see the ensuing nerdrage. I mean, come on. There are posts everywhere about this "issue" and most of the people doesn't even know that they are being used in a metagame. That this is all politics and no content. A CSM Vote to disband the alliance? Whats next? A demonstration in front of the CCP HQ with transparents "CCP are stinky cheaters so disband BoBR!!!11!"? The politicians can try, but, in my opinion, _nothing_ can make this "issue" relevant, important or serious. But at least it made my day. ---
Jita Johnny	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:19:00 - [639] Originally by: Tanthius Originally by: Colonel Xaven This has a very bad taste and will go into EVE history again But it won't change the fate of this alliance of dev's "friends" with MSN connection to CCP. Just a little morale boost for them. Just a little. You're right, it was of little to no consequence for the average BoB member. Reading the pages and pages of tears over something so trivial, now, is downright hilarious. The best part of this thread is watching the stupider BoBR posters think this is going to end up helping them. The truth is, all molle(or whatever moron decided to use his connections at CCP to break the rules) has done is to guarantee that goons aren't going to have any participation problems from now on. You've made certain that your enemies won't get bored and wander away, which is the only thing close to a chance that you had until now.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:23:00 - [640] Originally by: Kira Direll Perhaps they don't see this "issue" worth the time to dig out some precedent. Then I think they need to reorder their priorities. Originally by: Kira Direll All i'm saying is: I have the urgent feeling that this "issue" is _made_ big by (eve-o)politicians. It's metagame. It's fighting an alliance via the forum. That's entirely possible. Yet, CCP have thus far been unable to show that it is the case. - DesuSigs
Mr M Legion of Illuminated Social Rejects	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:23:00 - [641] Originally by: Count Bolton CCP has a long history of corruption and favoritism since day 1, even before BoB existed. It started with the 'Old Boys Club' of m0o, Evolution and RKK back during Castor years Oops! I guess you "forgot" to mention that devs in concord battleships attacked mOo when they camped Amamake. What else did you "forget" to mention? EVEgeek\|Eden Underground Radio
meat vapour	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:29:00 - [642] ohnoze, a name change! adapt or die.
nikhan Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:31:00 - [643] Originally by: Count Bolton CCP has a long history of corruption and favoritism since day 1, even before BoB existed. It started with the 'Old Boys Club' of m0o, Evolution and RKK back during Castor years Internal QA knowledge of PvP exploits. Knowledge of market shifting patch changes before public release. Massive insider knowledge of the T2 BPO lottery and Aurora events flowed freely between these corporations. BoB crashing the nodes to win fleet battles wasn't just from their UK location. They exploited a flaw in how clients logged into the Tranquility server. It involved having a second game client open and filled, waiting on standby to forcibly disconnect your current client from the server. There were other methods involved, but it's an example how BoB had a deep understanding of eve's server mechanics and node balancing, as with other parts of the game. I used to work in ISD as a Bug Hunter, so I witnessed some of this corruption first-hand. The chaos server(original test server, before singularity existed) was a breeding ground for exploitation and insider knowledge. While I worked on squashing bugs, I would see other ISD members scouting out moons and enemy stations from the latest game backup. Some people also had '/spawn' privileges, and used it to gather insider knowledge on new equipment, game mechanics, and even exploits. I tried to report these problems myself, but they got swept under the rug by certain GMs and QA members. I remember Nebulai, the old Aurora lead calling me a liar, even after I caught some of his event staff cheating during an event(with slash commands), unfairly destroying other player's ships and property. I think the public opening of singularity server has been a large help in making EVE a level playing field. Everyone has equal rights to limitless equipment on the test server, and can tinker around with new patches and game changes. I also think transparency with the new ISD and event teams has gone a long way to remove favoritism and free giveaways of officer loot. Even though the impact of ISD, GM and developer corruption has been greatly reduced, I feel that CCP still doesn't take this kind of cheating seriously. Eve Online iron-clad naming policy has screwed over countless other people in the past due to its bitter fairness, and yet everything is waved for just one alliance. Not just any alliance; It's the same alliance that gets their hand caught in the cookie jar, every time. Aurora event scandals. 10/10 complexes with farmable overseers, exploiting aggro timers, bugged trade routes using titan portals, shooting players though starbase shields, crashing nodes down to a science, etc. The list is very, very long. For those that do not understand, this isn't about a simple name change. BoB used an already-existing 'alternate' alliance to fall back into after being disbanded, to immediately reclaim their sovereignty. The downside is they're stuck with using the alt-alliance, and must disband to create a more 'official' one. Using GM intervention, however, they are having their cake and eating it too. This is after the GM's told everyone else the cake was a lie. The widespread corruption is hard to quantify, as many players who went through it have already quit the game in disgust. I think the current player base will mainly cite the t20 scandal as their oldest memory, even though the free BPO's were trash and insignificant compared to t20's knowledge on how to control the lottery itself. I have also quit the game in disgust and no longer play EVE. I use this free account(gifted to me by kieron) to poke around and check out the new expansions every now and then. I thought the t20 scandal and creation of internal affairs would be the last time BoB was given any kind of favoritism by the higher powers. It saddens me that I was wrong. The tl;dr version: The cake is a lie, unless you're BoB. Then you get plenty of cake. For the people who missed it. Originally by: Akino Sakura Goonswarm is nothing more then a bunch of backward ******s that need to be lined up and shot to make the world a better place.
white kight Galaxy Punks Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:34:00 - [644] Oh noes, its a name. Get over it, stop crying and play the game. Its not actually changed anything. Originally by: CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
T'Karr Minmatar Quam Singulari PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:34:00 - [645] MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM GOON (& Pets) TEARS!!!!!!! --
T'Karr Minmatar Quam Singulari PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:35:00 - [646] It shows how much Goons are clutching onto straws if they are crying over a name change... hilarious. --
shamai	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:38:00 - [647] Its a name change, get over it and quit crying
Esharan	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:39:00 - [648] Edited by: Esharan on 25/03/2009 12:41:18 Originally by: white kight Oh noes, its a name. Get over it, stop crying and play the game. Its not actually changed anything. I don't think thats the point. Everyone knows its just a name and doesn't really matter the issue is more about preferential treatment and the rules of the game imo. Firstly I am not in goons or bob, nor a pet but I can see why this bothers a lot of people. Its a violation (as I see it) of the rules, and it seems like any other entity would not have gotten away with it. Basically its just another example of CCP seemingly showing forms of favoritism towards a certain alliance and that is not right. The rules are rules and are in place for a reason, and SHOULD apply to everyone regardless of how large they are, or how "important" they are to EVE. p.s I sorta also sympathize with BOB I don't like how goons "won" but fact is its part of the game, and part of what makes EVE great, so while I think it sucks that BOB went down how it did, the DEVS should be unbiased and let the game play out as its meant too, un-filtered, and fairly unregulated etc. Frankly even though I am not involved, it sort of bothers me for exactly this reason, twice now it seems (and maybe a lot more that we know of) BOB has gotten "special" treatment and been able to circumvent the rules we all live by.
nikhan Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:45:00 - [649] Originally by: shamai Its a name change, get over it and quit crying Its just a name change its not like it matters. That billion isk everyone else has to pay doesn't matter. That sovereignty loss that everyone else has to go through when they had to change their names doesn't matter. BOB are different. Originally by: Akino Sakura Goonswarm is nothing more then a bunch of backward ******s that need to be lined up and shot to make the world a better place.
Cridil Caldari Yamarashi Industries	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:46:00 - [650] Dear Goons You set out a couple of years ago to remove BoB from Delve and humiliate them as much as possible whilst doing it. During this time you have had ups and downs and carpet bombed the forums with drama and propaganda. Irrespective of how you achieved it, congrats on the well organised campaign in taking Delve and the Band of Brothers name. Now that you are finaly dining in NOL or whatever you are doing there, dont get choked up because the previous occupiers managed to save the company name (or a second rate hybrid of it) from the wall. Regards Cridil Dear EvE community I apologise if what I say has been posted somewhere in the previous 20+ pages. Its kinda easy to pick up the feeling from a select few posts so you can understand if I dont read all of them. From my understanding of CCPs responce, it has taken them two months to deal with and then agree with the petion. If CCP had taken 10 mins instead of two months to reach the same decision I doubt anything would of changed in game irrespective of the alliances name. With that in mind it would be unfair for BoB to have to restart gaining sov again as a result of this two month period. The only people who would benefit from BoB having to start again would be the Goons who did not clear BoB totaly out of Delve, I therefore think that explains their high emotions regarding CCPs decesion to just change the name and not the sov level. Regarding the T20 incident, yes it was a CCP employee in BoB who spawned a small amount of T2 BPOs. In my opinion I think he did it for his own benefit, chief amongst them to look good to the leaders of the then the No1 alliance in EvE. Another way to put it he wanted to stand out of the general crowd with his new shiny T2 BPOs and lets face anyone at that time who had T2 BPOs would of recieved the attention of any CEO. Whether the BoB directors knew, suspected, ignored who just didnt know will always be a subject of debate and mud slinging. I dont think for one moment that what BoB achieved in that time was down to T20 and a select few T2 BPOs. I also dont see BoB as CCPs fav son, I agree that they recognise them as a very important part of EvE which has created alot of interest outside of the game. I also believe they have the same view regarding Goons and if the current storyline was reversed CCP would treat them the same way if not quicker . I use the term "storyline" as EvE is a sandbox game and everything is done by the players. The current politics and drama is a story that has been told by outside news agencies such as the BBC, NY times as well as gaming communities. If CCP have to step into the sandbox and be a bit more hands on from time then let them. Sometimes this benefits one side sometimes the whole community, this way people dont get an unfair advantage such as T2 BPOs and overview standings icons. BoB have lost three regions, they have lost their identity, they have lost huge sums of ISK, and they have lost their stations and POSs. And honestly I am the only person who still called KenZoku "BoB". BoB have not got anything back from what they lost, even their new name is a hybrid version and then its only a name nothing more nothing less. When I see members of the same community as me having a drama queen emo rage over this, I wonder if EvE is the right place for them to be. CCP have not done anything wrong over this name change, neither have BoB, Goons or any other people in this game. It was a decesion based on rightfully maintianing the identity of players who have contributed to what makes EvE the community it is today. Have fun Cridil.
nikhan Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:49:00 - [651] Originally by: Cridil When I see members of the same community as me having a drama queen emo rage over this, I wonder if EvE is the right place for them to be. CCP have not done anything wrong over this name change, neither have BoB, Goons or any other people in this game. It was a decesion based on rightfully maintianing the identity of players who have contributed to what makes EvE the community it is today. Have fun Cridil. If they had have disbanded and reformed like everyone in the past has had to then there would have been no problem. This whole situation wouldn't exist. Originally by: Akino Sakura Goonswarm is nothing more then a bunch of backward ******s that need to be lined up and shot to make the world a better place.

CCP Arkanon C C P	Posted - 2009.03.25 12:57:00 - [652] Originally by: Count Bolton CCP has a long history of corruption and favoritism since day 1, even before BoB existed. It started with the 'Old Boys Club' of m0o, Evolution and RKK back during Castor years Internal QA knowledge of PvP exploits. Knowledge of market shifting patch changes before public release. Massive insider knowledge of the T2 BPO lottery and Aurora events flowed freely between these corporations. TEXT TRUNCATED The tl;dr version: The cake is a lie, unless you're BoB. Then you get plenty of cake. I just wanted to answer this briefly. The volunteer program has been a part of EVE since before launch. There is no doubt that through the years, there have been individuals that abused their position to some degree within the volunteer team. However, it is also fact that CCP has acted on complaints of corruption and removed individuals that were verifiably breaking our rules. The events you describe can probably not be verified, one way or the other, since too much time has passed. It is worth noting, however, that the entire event team was closed down in 2007, partly due to numerous complaints and allegations of misconduct. We have since restructured the team and reopened it under new guidelines and command. It's therefore not true to say that CCP did not respond to allegations of misconduct within ISD. Internal Affairs is following the issues being debated here along with the GM team, the Community team and other interested parties within CCP. The GM team will be handling this for the most part, as the namechange is a matter of GM policy and procedure. Thank you all for your input and patience. CCP Arkanon CCP Internal Affairs [email protected]

Cridil Caldari Yamarashi Industries	Posted - 2009.03.25 13:01:00 - [653] Originally by: nikhan Originally by: Cridil When I see members of the same community as me having a drama queen emo rage over this, I wonder if EvE is the right place for them to be. CCP have not done anything wrong over this name change, neither have BoB, Goons or any other people in this game. It was a decesion based on rightfully maintianing the identity of players who have contributed to what makes EvE the community it is today. Have fun Cridil. If they had have disbanded and reformed like everyone in the past has had to then there would have been no problem. This whole situation wouldn't exist. CCP honoured the petion from the time it was submited, which in my understanding happened just after BoB was disbanded. In the two months it took for CCP to deal with the petion KenZoku regained some Sov which would be unfair to lose again because CCP took so long. If CCP had dismissed the petion then you would still have KenZoku.
shamai	Posted - 2009.03.25 13:04:00 - [654] Originally by: nikhan Originally by: shamai Its a name change, get over it and quit crying Its just a name change its not like it matters. That billion isk everyone else has to pay doesn't matter. That sovereignty loss that everyone else has to go through when they had to change their names doesn't matter. BOB are different. Sounds to me like bob wanted to reform immediatly after being disbanded (but could not as someone had griefed them....who was that again?) They then dived into a pet alliance, probably as a result of cutting thier losses and trying to rally, they raised a petition for above Finally the petition gets resolved and the fairest way of dealing with it is just to rename the alliance, after all, they have just lost everything, so hitting them while they are down, and after they have been harrased into losing their name would not really be fair..would it? Get some perspective, it is a game, and its just a name, grow up
Evulkin Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.03.25 13:05:00 - [655] Originally by: CCP Arkanon .. However, it is also fact that CCP has acted on complaints of corruption and removed individuals that were verifiably breaking our rules... lol t20
Cpt Iwan 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.25 13:18:00 - [656] Originally by: GM Grimmi Yesterday we changed the name of the alliance KenZoku to Band of Brothers Reloaded as the result of a petition by their leadership. It has come to our attention that this was not a popular decision among some of our players and weÆd like to take this opportunity to address those issues. We have previously changed names provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe and the situation warranted such action. The leadership of KenZoku/Band of Brothers did petition us immediately after they were disbanded and their name was taken. While we worked on the petition for about two months we do not feel that they should suffer because of that. Having them disband and lose sovereignty again was not deemed appropriate in this case. This action was limited to changing their name, as we have done before for others - we did not assist them in regaining their sovereignty after the Band of Brothers alliance was disbanded, nor did we assist with that now. Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment. Sorry this is extremly pathetic.
ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.03.25 13:21:00 - [657] the name change is actually worth it now just to see all the goon tears in this thread.
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.03.25 13:26:00 - [658] Originally by: ArmyOfMe the name change is actually worth it now just to see all the goon tears in this thread. Yeah, don't take Eve too seriously boys. It's just a game. OH WAIT. ___ Latest video: War Has Come (720p)
Mr M Legion of Illuminated Social Rejects	Posted - 2009.03.25 13:29:00 - [659] Originally by: Count Bolton Massive insider knowledge of the T2 BPO lottery and Aurora events flowed freely between these corporations. Oh hi, it's me again. You also "forgot" to mention the whole Cult of Tetrimon story arc that where removed after details where leaked by Aurora members. EVEgeek\|Eden Underground Radio
Mr M Legion of Illuminated Social Rejects	Posted - 2009.03.25 13:30:00 - [660] Edited by: Mr M on 25/03/2009 13:30:51 stupid forum EVEgeek\|Eden Underground Radio

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