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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:31:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Malcanis I kind of disagree. EvE is much more interesting when you don't know how stuff works. It's the discovery that's fun.
If you're the kind of person for whom learning isn't fun then so sorry, wrong game etc.
I'd /thread this quote but alas its against the forum rules to make a post with only that as the content.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Montmazar
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:38:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Malcanis I kind of disagree. EvE is much more interesting when you don't know how stuff works. It's the discovery that's fun.
If you're the kind of person for whom learning isn't fun then so sorry, wrong game etc.
I'd /thread this quote but alas its against the forum rules to make a post with only that as the content.
So people actually do enjoy a bad interface. This is mind blowing. Again, the question:
If WoW had an extremely counterintuitive interface, does that mean you would like it?
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:46:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Montmazar So people actually do enjoy a bad interface. This is mind blowing. Again, the question:
If WoW had an extremely counterintuitive interface, does that mean you would like it?
The interface has always been fine and from day one I neve had any issue figuring out what things did. Or when something did lack a certain intuitiveness I just asked a question in chat or looked or asked on the forums. Windows with information in them that you can use to manipulate the information is what the eve ui is made of. No fancy graphics or borders or any of the frilly eyecandy that those 'other' mmo games have. The ui in eve is movable and resizable and customizable with the normal limits. Now thats not to say the ui couldn't use a bit more functionality or even that some long standing bugs or annoyances are not still around but to call the eve ui a bad interface is just trolling.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Gonada
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:46:00 -
[64]
hard does not equate bad.
ohh and another point: there are multiple eve sites that have all the info you need and more in order to play the game , so why do poeple still complain that theres no information?
noone, unless mentally deficient, starts playing an online game without looking for online resources nowdays.
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Montmazar
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:51:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Gonada hard does not equate bad.
Counter-intuitive does not mean more fun. Noob-unfriendly does not mean better. And more generally, complexity does not equal complication.
And what kind of game relies on users googling information about how to operate it? That is crazy.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:53:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Akita T I didn't say it was insanely hard to figure out all the time... if you have the patience to try everything, you'll eventually find what you want.
That might have been how it was for you, for me pretty much the entire thing was obvious. Patience was never an issue because I found almost everything easily. I was surprised when I first found that people consider it a bad interface. Considering how much people tend to hate it, and how much I like it, I'm pretty sure I'd hate to use anything they came up with.
That's not to say that there isn't room for improvement, but that merely means it isn't perfect. -
DesuSigs |
Discrodia
Gallente Independent Miners Guild Guild Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:56:00 -
[67]
If I agree with one of your many points, T3 is the one I agree with most.
When Apocrytha was announced they said, and I quote from EON: "The various subsystems will have skills that need to be trained for, but the initial requirements shouldn't be too steep." Implying relativly easy to get both cash and skill wise.
I got all excited, thinking that maybe I might finally get the true ship customization I wanted. And I diverted a month of skill training once the skill reqs were known. And you know what?
I completely regret it. I lost a whole month that could've gone to souping up a battlecruiser or trying out some new items to train for some thing that, as on now, is 4 billion ISK away. 4 BILLION ISK!! Where're your 'not too steep' initial requirements? Where're the people who even buy these things? I think CCP should notice when they create a cruiser that costs more than TWO BLOODY DREADNAUGHTS it's not exactly within public reach. Hell, it took me a whole afternoon to wind through the maze of blueprints to find out exactly what I needed, and how far away that all was.
I hope CCP is happy that they managed to completely betray my trust with this expansion, and while I'm not going to emoragequit (I've played WoW, it's 3000 times worse) I want them to know how dissapointed I am in them.
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Discrodia > SILENCE! I KILL YOU! Northern Fall > They're just sleepers disc... |
Daelorn
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:57:00 -
[68]
Baaaaack in my day we didn't HAVE tutorials or anything to teach us. I made it just fine!
*beats Akita with a cane*
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:58:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Montmazar And what kind of game relies on users googling information about how to operate it? That is crazy.
Yes I forgot that blizzard makes you buy lots and lots and lots and lots of exspensive books to be well informed on the finer details of thier games. Stupid CCP and the fan sites just give it all away for free online.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:58:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Akita T ALMOST NO IN-GAME INFO FOR THE NEWCOMERS.
We like to weed out the morons.
Regrettably, its clearly not a system that always works.
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Montmazar
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.02 23:58:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Zeba The interface has always been fine and from day one I neve had any issue figuring out what things did.
User-interface wise, I haven't either. That said, many user interface options are completely pointless and puzzling. When I right click on a container, what do I want to do 99% of the time? Open it, right? So how come that is the sixth or seventh option down the list, well after "trash container," and option that most players will never select in the entire course of playing the game? That is bad user interface.
If I pull an item off my ship, how come I can bring up market data about that, but if I want to sell it I need to repackage it? And why does repackage have a confirm screen? In what situation would someone ever be impeded by repackaging something accidentally? A completely pointless extra three clicks per item. That is bad user interface.
When you make people click things more times than they have to, that is bad user interface. When extremely uncommon actions are prioritized above extremely common actions, that is bad user interface. I cannot believe any of this is at all controversial - the powers of fanboi blindness continue to amaze me.
Yes, it's a fun game. I pay for it and will continue to pay for it. That does not mean it has no flaws, and I do not understand why pointing out flaws is somehow construed as a moral or personal failing. Earlier you called complainers spineless. That is crazy.
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Montmazar
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:00:00 -
[72]
Apologies to Zeba - it was a different commentator who said complainers had no spines.
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Krinthe
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:04:00 -
[73]
When I started to read this thread, I half thought it was a joke, that you was just trying to be funny. Reason I say that is because most of what you wrote isnt true, esp about the info part.
What game are you playing anyways? This game is FULL of info, EVERYWHERE!!!! Its so full of info that its beginning to annoy me that everything I do has an info tab pop up. Ive been playing this game for about 2 weeks (give or take) and Ive had to use the "Rookie chat" a few times only to get an answer to my question.
You say you dont want the info shoved down your throat....Did you even notice there is a clickable spot to turn that stuff off?
Your post is MEH and since you brought it up...I would have to label you as one of the stupid ones who thinks they are smarter than the rest. You liked MoO so much, go back to it then. A 10th of all I earn I keep for myself. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:09:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Zeba on 03/04/2009 00:10:32
Originally by: Montmazar User-interface wise, I haven't either. That said, many user interface options are completely pointless and puzzling. When I right click on a container, what do I want to do 99% of the time? Open it, right? So how come that is the sixth or seventh option down the list, well after "trash container," and option that most players will never select in the entire course of playing the game? That is bad user interface.
Never understood people who complain about that. It's a right-click menu. It lists stuff. Look at what you are selecting and you will always highlight what you want to select. Do you do it with your periphery vision or something that you miss so much its an issue?
Originally by: Montmazar If I pull an item off my ship, how come I can bring up market data about that, but if I want to sell it I need to repackage it? And why does repackage have a confirm screen? In what situation would someone ever be impeded by repackaging something accidentally? A completely pointless extra three clicks per item. That is bad user interface.
Repackging as a requirement for sale ensures the item is repaired and ready for sale. Want to buy a BS at a station with no repair service that is in deep hull? Repackaging with the confirm lets you not trash your fitted mods.
Originally by: Montmazar When you make people click things more times than they have to, that is bad user interface. When extremely uncommon actions are prioritized above extremely common actions, that is bad user interface. I cannot believe any of this is at all controversial - the powers of fanboi blindness continue to amaze me.
The powers of the troll are pretty darn amazing too.
Originally by: Montmazar Yes, it's a fun game. I pay for it and will continue to pay for it. That does not mean it has no flaws, and I do not understand why pointing out flaws is somehow construed as a moral or personal failing. Earlier you called complainers spineless. That is crazy.
So far I have shown that all your supposed ui flaws are just personal ineptitude on your part. Sorry.
edit:
Originally by: Montmazar Apologies to Zeba - it was a different commentator who said complainers had no spines.
Np. I realised it was just part of the undocumented eve-o experience feature list.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:10:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 03/04/2009 00:10:51
Originally by: Montmazar If I pull an item off my ship, how come I can bring up market data about that, but if I want to sell it I need to repackage it?
Welcome to the reality of databases.
Originally by: Montmazar And why does repackage have a confirm screen? In what situation would someone ever be impeded by repackaging something accidentally?
Rigged ship, for one.
Originally by: Zeba So far I have shown that all your supposed ui flaws are just personal ineptitude on your part. Sorry.
Beat me to it! -
DesuSigs |
Montmazar
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:11:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Krinthe When I started to read this thread, I half thought it was a joke, that you was just trying to be funny. Reason I say that is because most of what you wrote isnt true, esp about the info part.
What game are you playing anyways? This game is FULL of info, EVERYWHERE!!!!
Math quiz:
.1% = 10%, true or false
Because according to EvE logic, it's true. (Except when it's not)
Followup:
If I have 55% em armor resistance, and I turn on a module that gives me 10% bonus to em armor resistance, how much armor resistance do I now have? Because if you answered either 60.5% or 65%, the two answers most people schooled in Earth-math would choose, you are also wrong.
There is indeed lots of information. That information, however, is poorly organized, and often has very little relation to reality.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:17:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Zeba on 03/04/2009 00:19:41
I'll let one of the math wiz guys show you that formula. But the laymans explanation is that additional resistance buffs work on the remaining unresisted hp. This is to make sure we all don't run around in effectively damage immune 99.9% resist ships.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Montmazar
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:18:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Zeba menu. It lists stuff. Look at what you are selecting and you will always highlight what you want to select. Do you do it with your periphery vision or something that you miss so much its an issue?
Have you ever found it odd that in most computer programs, the most common action performed in a context menu is generally the most intuitively accessible?
Originally by: Zeba Repackging as a requirement for sale ensures the item is repaired and ready for sale. Want to buy a BS at a station with no repair service that is in deep hull? Repackaging with the confirm lets you not trash your fitted mods.
That makes sense for ships, but ships are a very small fraction of all items sold. Also, the check you are describing could be accomplished in many other, far simpler ways.
Originally by: Zeba When you make people click things more times than they have to, that is bad user interface. When extremely uncommon actions are prioritized above extremely common actions, that is bad user interface. I cannot believe any of this is at all controversial - the powers of fanboi blindness continue to amaze me.
Everyone who does not love every part of this game is a complete troll and should play WoW a/o just die, I get it. Not allowed to have any problems with a product I pay for - roger.
Originally by: Zeba So far I have shown that all your supposed ui flaws are just personal ineptitude on your part. Sorry.
This word - ineptitude - I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:20:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Montmazar Math quiz:
.1% = 10%, true or false
Because according to EvE logic, it's true. (Except when it's not)
Typos are hard.
Originally by: Montmazar If I have 55% em armor resistance, and I turn on a module that gives me 10% bonus to em armor resistance, how much armor resistance do I now have? Because if you answered either 60.5% or 65%, the two answers most people schooled in Earth-math would choose, you are also wrong.
People schooled in Earth-math should have learned to know what numbers they are dealing with before trying to manipulate them. -
DesuSigs |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:26:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Montmazar
Again all you are effectivlely saying is that the eve ui does not perform to your personal expectations even though the vast majority of people seem to have no issues with it past Akita T and he just made this thread to attract people like you into it so people like us can have a live one to mess with.
<3 Akita T.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Montmazar
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:28:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Montmazar on 03/04/2009 00:29:01 Just imagine how fun WoW would be if your +5 sword of orc slaying actually conveyed a +4.25 bonus due to the asymptotic nature of possible weapon improvements. And the fact that +5 was actually .4.25 was documented nowhere. And also the +5 was actually listed as + .5%, but really means +5 (which really means +4.25) and only noobs wouldn't know that. And what if you had to click three times to sell a single item? Man, that would be a blast. Then only the really dumb people would still be playing simple old Eve.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:30:00 -
[82]
Lmao. I'm not even going to touch that one though prepare yourself for battle from others.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:45:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Montmazar Just imagine how fun WoW would be if your +5 sword of orc slaying actually conveyed a +4.25 bonus due to the asymptotic nature of possible weapon improvements.
Actually, stacking penalty aside, a additional 10% resist hardener will provide 10% mitigation of DPS, whatever the current resist is. Intuitive, no? -
DesuSigs |
Arvald
Caldari Letiferi Praedones The Council.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 01:03:00 -
[84]
all i have to say is *golfclap*
ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck |
Arkyk
Viper Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.03 02:22:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Zeba The powers of the troll are pretty darn amazing too.
Troll != someone who disagrees.
And while I agree with CCP that an addon system like WoW is not the right fit for EvE, I have to think it's rather a shame, since (arguably) one of the great things about WoW addons was that quite frequently Blizzard would go "Woah, that's much better than the crap we have now." and steal it for their own. Some (most, really) of the major improvements to the WoW UI originally came from addons.
Perhaps it would be more constructive for someone (who obviously has a lot more time on hand than me) to photoshop up some interface screenshots to show the kinds of things they'd like to see. See if that sparks any "Oohs" and "Ahhs" from the masses.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.03 02:26:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Arkyk
Originally by: Zeba The powers of the troll are pretty darn amazing too.
Troll != someone who disagrees.
I agree. However Montmazar in this case was obviously trolling.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.03 02:58:00 -
[87]
i can agree whit akita on many things @ the UI i dont want the custom UI but some improvements on the short them only want to point THE BLOODY MARKET FONT SIZE IS A ****
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Maria Kalista
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.03 03:38:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Zeba The interface has always been fine
Wut?
Be honest now, this is quit annoyingly unnecessarily stupid.
Originally by: tentonhammer
One galaxy, limited resources, 450K players who are all a little odd to begin with and a porous system of currency trading. Welcome to the asylum, let's take a tour! |
b1zz
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Posted - 2009.04.03 03:54:00 -
[89]
Let me translate the OP: fix the UI and give us infinite tool tips ref. to Orion II.
His post rants on a bit but he's absolutely right on the basic points. The glaring example of CCPs ineptitude at UI design is the new fitting screen. Here we've had EFT for years now as a thorough, complete fitting utility you would think when CCP say they're going to address the fitting screen the result would be at least on par with EFT, but it's not even close to the point of why did they bother.
I don't buy into the argument that it's good for the game that info is hard to access. The game is plenty complex enough even for a player who knows it all. All players navigating through the galaxy in a haze of semi-understanding is not good for the game, nor is it good that to lift this haze you need to spend as much time outside the game reading than in the game playing. CCP need to think seriously about information delivery and getting players 'in the zone' quicker if they want to retain and attract more players.
And enough with the calls to remove NPC corps, it's not going to happen unless CCP wants to lose the casual half of their player base.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.03 04:10:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Maria Kalista
Originally by: Zeba The interface has always been fine
Wut?
Be honest now, this is quit annoyingly unnecessarily stupid.
You know your buddys name is Jimbo but unfortunatly when you search for him using 'character' it generates a list as long as your arm with him somewere in the middle so use 'character(exact)' to save yourself the hassle. See the problem is not bad ui but people who don't make the connection as to why its set up the way it is and assumes its bad design.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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