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Tekei
The Scurvy Corsairs
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Posted - 2010.10.24 18:55:00 -
[481]
Supported!
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Dro Nee
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Posted - 2010.10.24 19:27:00 -
[482]
 Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
I am totally supporting this. I think the fourth bonus should be in relation to the fourth bonus on the heavy assault ship counterpart.
Vagabond gets a bonus to max velocity, so make the Jaguar get a bonus to max velocity.
Munnin gets a bonus to tracking, give the Wolf a tracking bonus - it has no web.
Ishtar gets a bonus to drone damage and hitpoints, give this to the Ishkur, you may think its overkill so maybe just the damage bonus i guess.
Enyo, I guess would get a bonus to MWD capacitor.
The Hawks current shield boosting bonus does not relate to the Cerberus. I would suggest giving the Hawk a ROF bonus like the cerb.
The Harpy is missing a bonus to shield resistances.
The retribution is missing a ROF bonus and a midslot if it please ya, the midslot, i guess doesnt matter as much if ccp wont fix it.
The Vengeance is missing a ROF bonus.
This won't make them overpowered, only better ships.
I lol'ed 
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hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.10.24 19:39:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Dro Nee
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
I am totally supporting this. I think the fourth bonus should be in relation to the fourth bonus on the heavy assault ship counterpart.
Vagabond gets a bonus to max velocity, so make the Jaguar get a bonus to max velocity.
Munnin gets a bonus to tracking, give the Wolf a tracking bonus - it has no web.
Ishtar gets a bonus to drone damage and hitpoints, give this to the Ishkur, you may think its overkill so maybe just the damage bonus i guess.
Enyo, I guess would get a bonus to MWD capacitor.
The Hawks current shield boosting bonus does not relate to the Cerberus. I would suggest giving the Hawk a ROF bonus like the cerb.
The Harpy is missing a bonus to shield resistances.
The retribution is missing a ROF bonus and a midslot if it please ya, the midslot, i guess doesnt matter as much if ccp wont fix it.
The Vengeance is missing a ROF bonus.
This won't make them overpowered, only better ships.
I lol'ed
Care to elaborate?
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Dro Nee
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Posted - 2010.10.24 20:36:00 -
[484]
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
Originally by: Dro Nee
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
I am totally supporting this. I think the fourth bonus should be in relation to the fourth bonus on the heavy assault ship counterpart.
Vagabond gets a bonus to max velocity, so make the Jaguar get a bonus to max velocity.
Munnin gets a bonus to tracking, give the Wolf a tracking bonus - it has no web.
Ishtar gets a bonus to drone damage and hitpoints, give this to the Ishkur, you may think its overkill so maybe just the damage bonus i guess.
Enyo, I guess would get a bonus to MWD capacitor.
The Hawks current shield boosting bonus does not relate to the Cerberus. I would suggest giving the Hawk a ROF bonus like the cerb.
The Harpy is missing a bonus to shield resistances.
The retribution is missing a ROF bonus and a midslot if it please ya, the midslot, i guess doesnt matter as much if ccp wont fix it.
The Vengeance is missing a ROF bonus.
This won't make them overpowered, only better ships.
I lol'ed
Care to elaborate?
Oh. You were serious? Mah bad.
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hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.10.24 22:26:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Dro Nee
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
Originally by: Dro Nee
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
I am totally supporting this. I think the fourth bonus should be in relation to the fourth bonus on the heavy assault ship counterpart.
Vagabond gets a bonus to max velocity, so make the Jaguar get a bonus to max velocity.
Munnin gets a bonus to tracking, give the Wolf a tracking bonus - it has no web.
Ishtar gets a bonus to drone damage and hitpoints, give this to the Ishkur, you may think its overkill so maybe just the damage bonus i guess.
Enyo, I guess would get a bonus to MWD capacitor.
The Hawks current shield boosting bonus does not relate to the Cerberus. I would suggest giving the Hawk a ROF bonus like the cerb.
The Harpy is missing a bonus to shield resistances.
The retribution is missing a ROF bonus and a midslot if it please ya, the midslot, i guess doesnt matter as much if ccp wont fix it.
The Vengeance is missing a ROF bonus.
This won't make them overpowered, only better ships.
I lol'ed
Care to elaborate?
Oh. You were serious? Mah bad.
Like I said, care to elaborate?
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Dro Nee
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Posted - 2010.10.25 01:18:00 -
[486]
Besides the fact that they already have 4 bonuses, even if we wanted them to have 5 your "suggestions" dont do squat for balance within the class nor keep things balanced between AF's and other classes.
-3km/s(ab) to 5km/s(mwd) Jags wont be balanced
-350dps ishkurs wont be balanced
-230dps Hawks wont be balanced
Not to mention you dont give meaningful bonuses to the enyo, harpy, veng, or wolf once you take the major boosts the 3 top AF's get.
I assumed you had actually thought about all this and were just having a laugh because of your last line (read: Trolling). Like I said, mah bad.
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hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.10.25 03:21:00 -
[487]
Originally by: Dro Nee
Besides the fact that they already have 4 bonuses, even if we wanted them to have 5 your "suggestions" dont do squat for balance within the class nor keep things balanced between AF's and other classes.
-3km/s(ab) to 5km/s(mwd) Jags wont be balanced
-350dps ishkurs wont be balanced
-230dps Hawks wont be balanced
Not to mention you dont give meaningful bonuses to the enyo, harpy, veng, or wolf once you take the major boosts the 3 top AF's get.
I assumed you had actually thought about all this and were just having a laugh because of your last line (read: Trolling). Like I said, mah bad.
No. Assault frigates only get 3 bonuses at the moment. I was suggesting the fourth bonus that this topic is proposing. Anyway, maybe my suggestions wouldn't balance the class, but I was just giving suggestions for a fourth bonus of the assault ships in relation to the heavy assault ships.
Didn't give a meaningful bonus for the enyo? couldnt think of any. deimos gets a bonus to mwd cap use, so I suggested that for the enyo.
The sac gets a bonus to missile ROF so the veng should too no?
The cerberus gets a bonus to missile ROF so the hawk should too no?
I'm not sure about the wolfs bonus because it was just something from the top of my head but the munnin gets a bonus to tracking as well as two dmg bonuses and a range bonus, so figured it made sense.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2010.10.25 05:12:00 -
[488]
The frigates that AF are based on have 10 slots. 4-3-3 rifter for example. AF give one more slot to them for a total of 11 slots. 4-4-3 jag or 5-2-4 wolf that actually strips a mid and makes you do a double take if you're used to the rifter experience.
All of the AF should get an extra slot - make it mid or low. 4-4-4 jag and 5-3-4 wolf. Give the ships their missing frigate bonus - tracking bonus in the case of the wolf and jag. Done.
Now this WILL obsolete the destroyer class but AF and destroyers were competing for the same "niche" anyways. Considering how broken destroyers are nothing should be balanced around them anyways. 
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neener2u2
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Posted - 2010.10.25 14:26:00 -
[489]
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
No. Assault frigates only get 3 bonuses at the moment.
Saying this over and over does not make it true. Nor does someone makeing a thread saying this make it true.
If you want to have a boost AF thread fine. But lets not do it under the false pretense that they are missing the t2 4th bonus.
Originally by: Dro Nee
Just break out the resist bonus that af's get so that ignorant people stop whining.
i.e... give the jag the same resists as the sabre, claw, hound and then the additional resists found on the jag hull can be broken out and made the 4th bonus.
Please oh please do not do dumb things like give the jag tracking bonuses or AB bonuses. Though giving the retri 1 med slot in exchange for a low would be fine.
Fix'd
And this
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2010.10.25 15:01:00 -
[490]
EAS ships get T2 resists - and it's not mentioned as a bonus. Most T2 ships get the increased resistances w/o it being mentioned. The AF were among the first T2 ships and were experimental. I wouldn't mind interceptors getting the T2 resistances to be honest.
I'll also make the point that most T2 frigates have been redone - and get a role bonus when all is said and done. This is not something where the wheel has to be reinvented. Slap on an extra mid or low for all AF. The retribution would have two mids, then enyo and wolf three, ect. Slap on the missing frigate bonus. Make the role bonus the T2 resists - and keep the speed and agility the same - that's more then a fair tradeoff.
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Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.10.25 15:07:00 -
[491]
Supported. Bring back the sniper harpy!
I like me
Recruiter |
hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.10.25 15:21:00 -
[492]
You must all be stupid. T2 resists aren't a fourth bonus. The vagabond gets T2 resists as well as a fourth bonus. Quit being ****heads. Assault ships are missing a fourth bonus. Give it to them. Interceptors are missing a fourth bonus too. The "role bonus" which gives a 80% reduction in propulsion jamming operation cost, is absolutely not a bonus. Recon ships get 4 bonuses as well as a role bonus. Quit bull****ting.
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Greg6
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Posted - 2010.10.25 15:55:00 -
[493]
AFs need some love, big time. Fully supported.
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neener2u2
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Posted - 2010.10.25 16:16:00 -
[494]
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
You must all be stupid. T2 resists aren't a fourth bonus. The vagabond gets T2 resists as well as a fourth bonus. Quit being ****heads. Assault ships are missing a fourth bonus. Give it to them. Interceptors are missing a fourth bonus too. The "role bonus" which gives a 80% reduction in propulsion jamming operation cost, is absolutely not a bonus. Recon ships get 4 bonuses as well as a role bonus. Quit bull****ting.
If a bonus is not a bonus then what is the definition of a bonus again?
It seems to me that the only reason why you dont want to consider a role bonus as a bonus is that some ships get 4 regular bonuses and 2 bonuses from roles. Having a 6 bonus t2 ship, several 5 bonus t2 ships, and some 4 bonus t2 ships implies that perhaps CCP doesnt beleive that all t2 ships should have the same number of bonuses...which undermines the "geif AF the t2 4th bonus" argument. Plain and simple the extra resists an AF gets over and above the other t2 ships of its class is the 4th bonus. Which is why I advocate for CCP putting it back into the description... so people dont get confused. The EAF's also get a higher base resist and therefore, it can be argued, have more than 4 bonuses. Which is fine because not all t2 ships need/get the same quantity of bonuses to be balanced.
/me awaits the incoming "HAHAHAHA I TROLLOLOLOLOL U!!!!!" poast.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2010.10.25 17:01:00 -
[495]
"Gold jacket, green jacket, who gives a ****?"--Happy Gilmore
I don't care how many bonuses we say AF have - the bottom line is that they don't quite work. Frigates with one or two mids struggle or just plain don't work. Ships that cost 18+ million isk but pop when a cruiser looks their way don't work. Ships that struggle to track other ships their own class don't work. I've plopped down my idea. CCP needs to get that **** sorted.
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hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.10.25 17:33:00 -
[496]
Man, the bottom line, for me, is that the jaguar should be more than 200m/s faster than the vagabond. the vagabond and the cynabal relate to eachother almost identically. So too, should the jaguar and dramiel. I'm not saying make the jag as good as the dramiel in every way. I'm just saying, make it faster. Right now it is not fast enough for it's reputation as a kite-mobile.
The jag is a mini-vaga, give it some more speed (not a lot, a little).
The wolf is a gunboat. Give it a tracking bonus.
That's the way I see it, no need to give both the jag and wolf a tracking bonus.
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Dro Nee
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Posted - 2010.10.26 03:09:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
"Gold jacket, green jacket, who gives a ****?"--Happy Gilmore
I don't care how many bonuses we say AF have - the bottom line is that they don't quite work. Frigates with one or two mids struggle or just plain don't work. Ships that cost 18+ million isk but pop when a cruiser looks their way don't work. Ships that struggle to track other ships their own class don't work. I've plopped down my idea. CCP needs to get that **** sorted.
I totally agree that the frigs/dessies (t1 or t2) with insufficient mids do struggle in general purpose fights. In the best case scenarios they wind up only being choiceworthy in very niche circumstances. This could do with some work.
As for cruisers I am not really convinced they are as bad as you make them out to be. I flew ishkurs for a long time, everything from the std fit to total bizarro-land fits, and overall it performed exactly where a balanced AF should. Granted the ishkur is one of the top AF's (with the jag and wolf) and not all AF's will be able to do the same. The most pressing problem that cruisers present to AF's, imo, is that so many cruisers are fitting specifically to counter AF's and faction friggies now. I cant come up with a good argument for why a ship that dies/gets chased off, when the other ship is specifically setup to kill it, needs a boost. It seems to me that asking to boost the ship to the point where it doesnt get killed/chased off (by competent pilots) is really asking for someing OP by definition. If you have a good argument then by all means share though.
PS- you get no sympathy on the tracking thing if your talking about jags and wolfs. They always track as good, if not better, than my blasters
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W33b3l
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Posted - 2010.10.26 05:46:00 -
[498]
I know that some assault frigs tend to have issues. The vengeance has the potential to be an awesome little assault frig and im in love with the idea of that ship not to mention its looks, but the low DPS factor does tend to be a buzz kill. Theres an Amaar armor tanking missile boat HAC which is an awesome combination, if we could just fix rockets a little or raise the bonus for the vengeance it would help.
As for a 4th bonus, yes that makes sense since most other tech 2 ships have that.
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General Rivera
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Posted - 2010.10.29 13:01:00 -
[499]
+1
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Firey Jack
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.10.30 13:02:00 -
[500]
Fully supported, BTW.
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Mishkaii
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Posted - 2010.10.30 17:09:00 -
[501]
Supported
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Bloody Puppy
bulloxer
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Posted - 2010.11.06 09:55:00 -
[502]
Edited by: Bloody Puppy on 06/11/2010 09:57:37
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
The jag is a mini-vaga, give it some more speed (not a lot, a little).
The wolf is a gunboat. Give it a tracking bonus.
man tbh it is absolutely the reversal....
jag is the munin's light version.
wolf is the vaga's light version.
4th bonus is ok.
mixed bull****s like sacriledge strange bonuses not.
EDIT: 100% supported topic 
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WHY EVERYONE LOVES ME BUT NOONE UNDERSTAND ME? Albert Heinstein |
Rickhart
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.08 16:48:00 -
[503]
Originally by: Bloody Puppy
Edited by: Bloody Puppy on 06/11/2010 09:57:37
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
The jag is a mini-vaga, give it some more speed (not a lot, a little).
The wolf is a gunboat. Give it a tracking bonus.
man tbh it is absolutely the reversal....
jag is the munin's light version.
wolf is the vaga's light version.
4th bonus is ok.
mixed bull****s like sacriledge strange bonuses not.
EDIT: 100% supported topic
if your right and the wolf is the mini vaga that is really sad that the wolf is actually slower than the vaga.
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Tyranis Marcus
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Posted - 2010.11.09 06:53:00 -
[504]
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
Originally by: Dro Nee
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
I lol'ed
Care to elaborate?
Oh. You were serious? Mah bad.
Like I said, care to elaborate?
I'll elaborate. Assault ships already have a 4th bonus. It's resists. Someone already explained that just a few posts above yours. Go check it out.
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SheoFapped
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Posted - 2010.11.20 14:41:00 -
[505]
Supported!
About time! I have been worried about the Vengeance's damage for a long while now, so much tank yet so little dps. Thanks for listening! x3
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Azbuga
Bloody Amarr's
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Posted - 2010.11.20 23:50:00 -
[506]
+1
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.11.21 04:46:00 -
[507]
Originally by: Tyranis Marcus
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
Originally by: Dro Nee
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj
I lol'ed
Care to elaborate?
Oh. You were serious? Mah bad.
Like I said, care to elaborate?
I'll elaborate. Assault ships already have a 4th bonus. It's resists. Someone already explained that just a few posts above yours. Go check it out.
Are you implying all T2 ships (except for the AF) have FIVE bonuses? Well heavens we better change the OP title or no one will know what they're talking about. Should be "Give AF their 5th bonus"
lol get a clue noob.
---
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Fai Ni
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Posted - 2010.11.21 08:23:00 -
[508]
AF needs more agility and speed, because crusersize aligntime makes them unuseble in 00.
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Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2011.01.16 03:57:00 -
[509]
Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 16/01/2011 03:57:48
The people saying AF already have a fourth bonus are just really really... really, rediculously dumb.
And the fact that they only have three bonusses is so rediculous it's just... like... WHAT THE FUKK.
Four bonusses please, tracking, damage, whatever hand it the fukk over.
Oh, and supported.
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Mamba Lev
Masturbating Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2011.01.23 17:17:00 -
[510]
+1 |
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