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Ashley Sky The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:15:00 - [1] CCP, after every patch you nerf something into oblivion that I have invested a fair amount of skill points into training. What do you suggest I do with all those useless skill points? I propose you let us re-order skill points after you ruin our profession in every patch, so that we can put our SP to better use. Your logic is that if you created a junk character you can correct the attributes, but what if you created a junk character because you trained up falcons?
VoiceInTheDesert Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:18:00 - [2] Edited by: VoiceInTheDesert on 21/04/2009 20:17:42 1. Falcons are fine 2. That's what you get for being a FOTM follower 3. This is not wow, there are no respecs, deal with it.
FlyinS Caldari Planetary Industry and Trade Organization	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:18:00 - [3]
Flamewave Crimson Moon Society	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:19:00 - [4] 15,244,819. If I don't like it, I just fly something else. __________
Chill Brosef	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:23:00 - [5] You could always fly a Rook...
Ashley Sky The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Flamewave 15,244,819. If I don't like it, I just fly something else. Imagine if you could put all the crap ship SP into something that's currently useful.
Sniper Wolf18 Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Ashley Sky Originally by: Flamewave 15,244,819. If I don't like it, I just fly something else. Imagine if you could put all the crap ship SP into something that's currently useful. Imagine Amarr online And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:30:00 - [8] boohoo? I have 21,689,451 sp in spaceship command, 5,772,240 in missiles and 10,682,360 sp in gunnery, and I still cannot fly capships, T2 BS'es nor shoot T2 L guns. do you see me whining? well, actually not cuz chances are, if something's nerfed, I can still fly the next FOTM --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Ashley Sky Originally by: Flamewave 15,244,819. If I don't like it, I just fly something else. Imagine if you could put all the crap ship SP into something that's currently useful. 14,572,172 SP in spaceship command and i wouldnt reallocate one damn point. But then again i don't fly the frickin FOTM, i fly what works well consistently instead of whatever is at the top RIGHT NOW. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:32:00 - [10] Total SPs means jack if you don't say how many individual skills you have under that category. 30 skills and ~13,100,000 SPs here. CCP'll have to nerf the whole damn spaceship part of the game if they want to nerf me
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:33:00 - [11] Edited by: Armoured C on 21/04/2009 20:34:11 awwww ='( dont cry to hard oooh wait yeah cry some more it not nerfed it balancing how do you think i felt being a arazu pilot AND EOS pilot both of which were nerfed worst than this but dispite that i fly both still because i like these ships as they have some good points about them please go cry to wow forums they might like you better there. and dont train FOTM i guess is the motto here IS BACK WITH A VENGENCE YARRRRRRR
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Total SPs means jack if you don't say how many individual skills you have under that category. 30 skills and ~13,100,000 SPs here. CCP'll have to nerf the whole damn spaceship part of the game if they want to nerf me just that? I have 34 and nearly more 10mil SP than you there /epeen waving off --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:36:00 - [13] im 18 @ 10 but im not a cap pilot heard you get a lot os SP from flying cap ships =) IS BACK WITH A VENGENCE YARRRRRRR
Lonzo Kincaid Black Nova Corp KenZoku	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:36:00 - [14] 17.3million in spaceship command, none of it useless, except maybe the mining barge skill from when i hugged empire mining pyro all day. ---------------------- Quote: The rule of thumb is you have to outnumber them 2:1 before you even think about engaging them
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues Rally Against Evil	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:39:00 - [15] 30 @ 20,682,087 I love being able to fly loads of stuffs ^^, does include minmatar carrier though and black ops 5 >.>
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:43:00 - [16] 24 @ 8M SP, crosstraining doesnt take much SP btw @ OP, can i haz your falcon?
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Armoured C Edited by: Armoured C on 21/04/2009 20:40:02 im 18 @ 10 but im not a cap pilot heard you get a lot os SP from flying cap ships =) Advanced space ship command - 4 amarr BS - 4 amarr cruiser - 5 amarr frig - 4 assult ship - 4 BC - 5 command ship - 4 cov op - 4 destroyer - 2 EAS - 3 gallente BS - 4 gallente cruiser - 5 gallente frig - 5 gallente industrial - 5 HAC - 4 logistic - 4 recon - 4 space ship command - 5 Amarr Battleship level 5 Amarr Cruiser level 5 Amarr Frigate level 5 Amarr Industrial level 1 Amarr Strategic Cruiser level 2 Assault Ships level 4 Battlecruisers level 5 Caldari Battleship level 5 Caldari Cruiser level 5 Caldari Frigate level 5 Caldari Strategic Cruiser level 2 Command Ships level 4 Covert Ops level 4 training to level 5 Destroyers level 5 Electronic Attack Ships level 4 Gallente Battleship level 5 Gallente Cruiser level 5 Gallente Frigate level 5 Gallente Industrial level 3 Gallente Strategic Cruiser level 2 Heavy Assault Ships level 4 Heavy Interdictors level 4 Interceptors level 4 Interdictors level 4 Logistics level 4 Mining Barge level 4 Minmatar Battleship level 5 Minmatar Cruiser level 5 Minmatar Frigate level 5 Minmatar Industrial level 5 Minmatar Strategic Cruiser level 1 Recon Ships level 4 Spaceship Command level 5 Transport Ships level 4 nerf proof? yes I am.
Ashley Sky The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid 17.3million in spaceship command, none of it useless, except maybe the mining barge skill from when i hugged empire mining pyro all day. Exactly, what if the next nerf/boost cycle makes SP in spaceship command obsolete? It happened to mining, so it could go the other way, all you smarty pantses.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Ashley Sky Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid 17.3million in spaceship command, none of it useless, except maybe the mining barge skill from when i hugged empire mining pyro all day. Exactly, what if the next nerf/boost cycle makes SP in spaceship command obsolete? It happened to mining, so it could go the other way, all you smarty pantses. kinda hard for that happening, unless CCP has a death wish.
Flamewave Crimson Moon Society	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Blane Xero 14,572,172 SP in spaceship command and i wouldnt reallocate one damn point. But then again i don't fly the frickin FOTM, i fly what works well consistently instead of whatever is at the top RIGHT NOW. Exactly my point. The best argument against intense specialization (in FOTM or otherwise) is how useless you feel after the inevitable nerf. We all know game changes are coming so there's no excuse. Also, 31 skills for my 15.2m, though I only have the four strategic cruiser skills trained to level 1 right now. But basically, I haven't limited myself to one ship. __________
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:53:00 - [21] see i dispise caldari and will avoid at all cost to fly any ship that tanks sheild, i think it just disgusting =P and i hate the look of minmatar ships i was mainly a gallente until i moved into 0.0 and hated spending lots of isk shooting stuff so i moved over to amarr and havnt looked back since. i fly abso and eos , arazu and amarr BS maybe enyo AF =) IS BACK WITH A VENGENCE YARRRRRRR
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Dirk Magnum Total SPs means jack if you don't say how many individual skills you have under that category. 30 skills and ~13,100,000 SPs here. CCP'll have to nerf the whole damn spaceship part of the game if they want to nerf me just that? I have 34 and nearly more 10mil SP than you there /epeen waving off Well yeah but you also have twice as many total SPs as me
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:56:00 - [23] i have TEXAS skill points. --
Ashley Sky The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Armoured C see i dispise caldari and will avoid at all cost to fly any ship that tanks sheild, i think it just disgusting =P and i hate the look of minmatar ships i was mainly a gallente until i moved into 0.0 and hated spending lots of isk shooting stuff so i moved over to amarr and havnt looked back since. i fly abso and eos , arazu and amarr BS maybe enyo AF =) I can see the headlines now... Amarr ships have been more "balanced" 3 low slots have now been switched to mid slots. :)
Nigel Sheldon Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:57:00 - [25] aaaawww diddims... I have just over 7 mill in spaceship command and you don't hear me complain... for the record Advanced Spaceship command V Amarr Cruiser III Amarr Frigate IV Assault Ships III Battlecruisers IV Caldari Battleship V Caldari Cruiser IV Caldari Freighter IV Caldari Frigate V Caldari Industrial V Capital Ships III Covert Ops III Destroyers II Electronic Attack Ships III Gallente Frigate III Interceptors III Mining Barge IV Minmatar Frigate III Spaceship Command V Transport Ships IV I am not sure how many ships that enables me to fly...but I am sure it's enough
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:00:00 - [26] I've got 15.5M SP in Spaceship Command and I can't even fly Falcons FREE! jumpclone service - NOW 192 locations!
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:00:00 - [27] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Dirk Magnum Total SPs means jack if you don't say how many individual skills you have under that category. 30 skills and ~13,100,000 SPs here. CCP'll have to nerf the whole damn spaceship part of the game if they want to nerf me just that? I have 34 and nearly more 10mil SP than you there /epeen waving off Well yeah but you also have twice as many total SPs as me what then? get to work, yer lazy sorry excuse of an ass --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Scyala	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:04:00 - [28] Edited by: Scyala on 21/04/2009 21:08:39 Originally by: Ashley Sky CCP, after every patch you nerf something into oblivion that I have invested a fair amount of skill points into training. I've never seen CCP nerf something in to oblivion. They've nerfed ships and adjusted some roles but i can't think of any ship that is not flown because of a nerf (i know a few ships that aren't flown much because another of the same class is better).
Ashley Sky The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Scyala Originally by: Ashley Sky CCP, after every patch you nerf something into oblivion that I have invested a fair amount of skill points into training. I've never seen CCP nerf something in to oblivion. They've nerfed ships and adjusted some roles but i can't think of anyship that is not flown because of a nerf (i know a few ships that aren't flown much because another of the same class is better). Scorpion.
Grath Telkin Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:09:00 - [30] I started the game 3 and a half years ago, and made a caldari alt. I hated it, deleted it after 6 months, made up Grath, and have trained nothing but Amarr ever since. I trained them when they were considered the worst (something i never got, and still am confused as to why they are considered so awesome now, just a lil EM armor drop, 1 gun on the zealot, and a buff to let the apoc do its job) and still continue to train them now. At some point, CCP will do something to nerf my ships I'm sure, but i doubt I'll notice at all tbh. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, if you stopped believing all the hype, and just flew your ships, you wouldn't notice the nerfs either. I may be slightly bent though, as I've actually been considering training Caldari again on purpose. They have some of the best all around workhorse ships in the game, some of the hardest tanking ships in the game, and generally, the best Ewar in the game. Plus i too want to fly a lazor ferox (<3 gneez)
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:09:00 - [31] The thing is, that if I want to fly a cloaky, ECM boatie then I still have only one choice. It might not be as effective as it was before but it still has a role and I will still fly it when I require a ship for that role. The only role it can't meet now is as a crutch to useless players who need an I-Win button.
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Ashley Sky Scorpion. nope, now it's the ranged ECM ship. i'll give you one that's actually nerfed to oblivion: the Barracuda yeah. gone forever. most people didn't even know it existed.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:11:00 - [33] If you allow players to change their skillpoints, what is the use of having the races at all? People will just all switch to the race with the good ships for that year (trust me, every year it's a different one, at least it has been in the last five or so). You also devalue those players who are still constantly training and working to broaden their possible playstyle. With adjustable SP, there would actually be little reason to train a character past a certain point, and this would allow you to essentially 'max out' a character, then train up another. Which, of course, stinks of the mindset of certain OTHER MMO's ...
Draeca Tharri and Co.	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:14:00 - [34] Only 5,7m in spacesheep command but.. Gallente frigate V, Minmatar frig V, Amarr frig V, Caldari frig IV Gallente cruiser V, Minmatar cruiser soon to be V (8 days), Amarr & Caldari cruiser IV Battlecruiser IV, the next thing to max after minmatar cruiser V is ready. And skills for every T2 medium turret. T2 ships are overrated.
Ashley Sky The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:19:00 - [35] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon If you allow players to change their skillpoints, what is the use of having the races at all? People will just all switch to the race with the good ships for that year (trust me, every year it's a different one, at least it has been in the last five or so). You also devalue those players who are still constantly training and working to broaden their possible playstyle. With adjustable SP, there would actually be little reason to train a character past a certain point, and this would allow you to essentially 'max out' a character, then train up another. Which, of course, stinks of the mindset of certain OTHER MMO's ... It would add more flexibility, and variety, not less. Think corp that was Amarr heavy needing to switch to some Caldari specialization. People could re-tool their characters to match any situation. Also, it would provide another isk sink as you would have to re-buy skillbooks to re-tool. MMO treadmillers should see the value in this.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:20:00 - [36] I was looking for a temper tantrum and someone pointed me to this thread. Anyone seen one?
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:23:00 - [37] Originally by: Ashley Sky Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon If you allow players to change their skillpoints, what is the use of having the races at all? People will just all switch to the race with the good ships for that year (trust me, every year it's a different one, at least it has been in the last five or so). You also devalue those players who are still constantly training and working to broaden their possible playstyle. With adjustable SP, there would actually be little reason to train a character past a certain point, and this would allow you to essentially 'max out' a character, then train up another. Which, of course, stinks of the mindset of certain OTHER MMO's ... It would add more flexibility, and variety, not less. Think corp that was Amarr heavy needing to switch to some Caldari specialization. People could re-tool their characters to match any situation. Also, it would provide another isk sink as you would have to re-buy skillbooks to re-tool. MMO treadmillers should see the value in this. It would add LESS variety, not more. Think of ENTIRE CORPORATIONS changing ships overnight to Amarr, because they just so happen to be on the top of the pile at the moment. THAT is what you are asking for, whether you are intending it or not. There's not more variety when everyone is flying the SAME three or four ships, there is less. Flexibility should be earned with time and dedication. It should be something to work for. This game should NOT support MMO treadmillers. Respec and FOTM losers are the BANE of most MMO's. Lets keep EvE on it's current track of requiring a player to be responsible for his choices, good or bad.
Ashley Sky The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:38:00 - [38] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon This game should NOT support MMO treadmillers. Respec and FOTM losers are the BANE of most MMO's. Lets keep EvE on it's current track of requiring a player to be responsible for his choices, good or bad. Actually the only reason people would choose 3 or 4 ships is because of bad game design. Good game design would provide every ship class with strengths and weaknesses that could be countered by another ship class. As these issues of balance are worked out, players have the flexibility of choosing that which is strategically the best. You're asking smart players who know what to train (before it gets nerfed) be responsible for being smart and then having the rules changed. That's silly.
Ashley Sky The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:44:00 - [39] Oh and another thing... When the rules of a game are arbitrarily changed, the people who worked on mastering the rules the most are the ones who are going to suffer. An analogy would be, if professional basketball players were suddenly required to pass through a series of low-ceiling hallways on their way to the basket to make it more "fair" for short players.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:53:00 - [40] I purposely specialize in one and only one race's ships and weapon systems. Call me a closet RP geek. Which means I'll be flying a hulk for a year or so until blasters are viable once again. I figure Amarr are slated for the nerfbat, which (if history is any indication) should mostly miss and completely wreck Minmatar in some unforseen way. Caldari have always been meh, which means I'll be sitting pretty once again. Joking aside, I'm not a big fan of forcing everyone to cross-train into every weapon system and every race's hull. Once the old farts are all cross-trained the bulk of eve will be able to instantly switch FoTM. End result: less diversity, newbies continue to be efficiently ground into hamburger and the game is poorer overall. I'd much prefer incentive for specialization. But with the historical precedent of overnerfing and unintended consequences I have absolutely no clue how that could be pulled off.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:54:00 - [41] i picked minmatar because i wanted to be small and fast, weaseling across the battlefield. but im just weak, paper thin and easily jammable. they told me they were skill intensive, and i've hoped for 3years. but 60mil sp later, scimitar it is (mostly because i dont want to bend to the ole, straight-forward aka dumb vagabond). if i ever skill caps, i'll finally cross-skill. - putting the gist back into logistics
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:54:00 - [42] Originally by: Ashley Sky Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon This game should NOT support MMO treadmillers. Respec and FOTM losers are the BANE of most MMO's. Lets keep EvE on it's current track of requiring a player to be responsible for his choices, good or bad. Actually the only reason people would choose 3 or 4 ships is because of bad game design. Good game design would provide every ship class with strengths and weaknesses that could be countered by another ship class. As these issues of balance are worked out, players have the flexibility of choosing that which is strategically the best. You're asking smart players who know what to train (before it gets nerfed) be responsible for being smart and then having the rules changed. That's silly. Why then the suggestion for SP respecs? Are you saying that these respecs are needed to COMPENSATE for bad game design? Personally, I've found that most every ship is effective and has a role. Sometimes a ship must be brought back into balance due to it becoming TOO good. But with your suggestion, not only would players be able to more easily swap to whatever ships are drifting out of balance, they would also never have to be responsible for focusing on a ship class. One day I could be a great T2 battleship pilot, and the next I'd be the ultimate industrialists. This not only makes no SENSE, but completely demeans any player who's spent the time and energy to do both. Unless, of course, your suggesting that those pilots who've invested YEARS into doing exactly what you want to do overnight, should be compensated by some means? Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Ritzenhoff Gallente Fabian Strategy	Posted - 2009.04.21 22:07:00 - [43] Originally by: Ashley Sky Actually the only reason people would choose 3 or 4 ships is because of bad game design. Good game design would provide every ship class with strengths and weaknesses that could be countered by another ship class. As these issues of balance are worked out, players have the flexibility of choosing that which is strategically the best. Yup, which is why the Falcon had to change, which is what you're complaining about in the first place, is it not? It was overpowered, you trained it because it was overpowered, now it's balanced, I think you said this was good game design, so shouldn't you be enjoying Eve even more now? Your skillpoints aren't going anywhere, make the most of what you have. You're not going to get a lot of sympathy on the forum for either (a) another Falcon whine or (b)asking for Eve to emulate WoW.
Ashley Sky The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.21 22:08:00 - [44] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Unless, of course, your suggesting that those pilots who've invested YEARS into doing exactly what you want to do overnight, should be compensated by some means? Just because you've worked hard for something doesn't mean that it's a good idea. For example, people in the beginning of the game that trained for years to be good industrialists were hit hard by L4 missions ruining the mining profession, which used to be way more profitable than L3 missions. The rules were changed. Why not let players become whatever they want to be if they have the SP invested to do it? It would make the game a lot more entertaining, and allow players to explore areas of the game that they might not have otherwise.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.21 22:10:00 - [45] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Why then the suggestion for SP respecs? Are you saying that these respecs are needed to COMPENSATE for bad game design? Exactly this. If devs are allowed to say "our bad, we were clueless, we're changing the way the universe works because we screwed up" then why should players be punished for not having a crystal ball? Rhetorical question, but still. Quote: Personally, I've found that most every ship is effective and has a role. Sometimes a ship must be brought back into balance due to it becoming TOO good. But with your suggestion, not only would players be able to more easily swap to whatever ships are drifting out of balance, they would also never have to be responsible for focusing on a ship class. Not if the respec is lossy. In the past I've suggested lossy, timesink respec implementations which would at a minimum slow down the lemming migration. I won't rehash them again. Quote: One day I could be a great T2 battleship pilot, and the next I'd be the ultimate industrialists. This not only makes no SENSE, but completely demeans any player who's spent the time and energy to do both. As an ultimate industrialist t2 battleship pilot I have to say: "Wha?" Attribute respecs make no sense either. As the floor wax and dessert topping I can build, fight OR mine as I choose. I feel absolutely un-demeaned by the possibility of someone focusing on one those tasks at a time until they catch up in SP. Quote: Unless, of course, your suggesting that those pilots who've invested YEARS into doing exactly what you want to do overnight, should be compensated by some means? Make the respec lossy and we already are -- by being able to do everything without the respec.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.21 22:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Ritzenhoff Originally by: Ashley Sky Actually the only reason people would choose 3 or 4 ships is because of bad game design. Good game design would provide every ship class with strengths and weaknesses that could be countered by another ship class. As these issues of balance are worked out, players have the flexibility of choosing that which is strategically the best. Yup, which is why the Falcon had to change, which is what you're complaining about in the first place, is it not? It was overpowered, you trained it because it was overpowered, now it's balanced, I think you said this was good game design, so shouldn't you be enjoying Eve even more now? Your skillpoints aren't going anywhere, make the most of what you have. You're not going to get a lot of sympathy on the forum for either (a) another Falcon whine or (b)asking for Eve to emulate WoW. Actually, I don't think you can respec in WoW, if I remember correctly. Course, you can just make a new toon and train him up for a month or two in a brand new class, and viola ... But respecs are more common in games like SWG, where FOTM turners are horrendous and have always played a major part in ruining the game. Back when changing a profession meant forgetting what you already knew and grinding back up, it wasn't so bad. But I'm also of the mindset that making things easier and more convenient isn't a winning element of game design. "Cheat Code" suggestions like this one really turn my stomach. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:04:00 - [47] What is with people thinking that the skills they trained are now 'useless' because the FTOM they were training for gets readjusted? That is a flawed perception, as those SP still allow you to fly that same ship, it is just now going to be used in a slightly different manner. And in addition to this, the majority of skills you train in EVE are going to effect more than one situation, so you cannot call the training useless.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:07:00 - [48] Originally by: Ashley Sky Oh and another thing... When the rules of a game are arbitrarily changed, the people who worked on mastering the rules the most are the ones who are going to suffer. I wonder why you put the word "arbitrarily" in there. There were lots of good reasons to nerf the ECM ships, and before that the nanoships. It wasn't arbitrary at all.
ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:13:00 - [49] ~30mill sp in spaceship command. im nerf proof
Pooka Caldari United Space Aillance USA	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:14:00 - [50] 72,787,118 SPs. whats a Cap ship?? I am happy with battle cruser and T1 battle ships... each his own...
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:22:00 - [51] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Ashley Sky Oh and another thing... When the rules of a game are arbitrarily changed, the people who worked on mastering the rules the most are the ones who are going to suffer. I wonder why you put the word "arbitrarily" in there. There were lots of good reasons to nerf the ECM ships, and before that the nanoships. It wasn't arbitrary at all. I think this is the prime reason against such an argument. Course, we're all paranoid in EvE and looking for ulterior motives behind posts, so I admit to not knowing if the op is just unhappy because her ship of choice got nerfed or what. It's a probably excuse for the argument she presented, but not the only one. All that said and done, though, I have not once seen a ship nerfed (directly, anyhow), into uselessness. They may not be as useful as they were before, but they are never useless. Many ships have niche roles, and there is always a player out there that will take the ship you swear sucks, and beat you to death with it. I personally can't stand destroyers and feel that they are the most unbalanced ship in game, but have had the pain of witnessing a destroyer pilot beat a much older and higher skilled BC pilot (don't ask my how, cause I ain't got a clue). He was just really fricking good with destroyers. What I had to come to the conclusion was: I'm just a really crappy destroyer pilot. And a pretty horrible frigate pilot, on top of that. These ships don't suit the way I fly, they don't suit the way I play, and so, they don't suit me, despite my being able to fly all T1 and T2 frigates/destroyers for amarr, as well as use all T2 weaponry/equipment. I can build a pimped out fit, and still die in it, because of ME. There's lots of great ships in EvE, and the devs go out of their way to keep everything balanced. Even today, people are still flying the falcon very successfully, and there are more than a few nano-warriors who would convince you that nano's were still overpowered. Adding a means to respec skills, however, to make up for this trial and error learning process is wrong, I feel. It serves no purpose other than to let players jump from one unbalanced mechanic to the other, and in the nature of MMO's, there is always an unbalanced mechanic no matter how much the devs try.
Trathen Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.21 23:50:00 - [52] Originally by: Ashley Sky You're asking smart players who know what to train (before it gets nerfed) be responsible for being smart and then having the rules changed. That's silly. You make training FOTM sound so mentally taxing. Much more taxing than, say, anticipating reasonable change. _
Orree Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:07:00 - [53] Originally by: Grimpak boohoo? I have 21,689,451 sp in spaceship command, 5,772,240 in missiles and 10,682,360 sp in gunnery, and I still cannot fly capships, T2 BS'es nor shoot T2 L guns. do you see me whining? well, actually not cuz chances are, if something's nerfed, I can still fly the next FOTM +39 Spaceship Command skills trained, for a total of 21,311,823 skillPoints. +30 Gunnery skills trained, for a total of 12,574,957 skillPoints. +19 Missile Launcher Operation skills trained, for a total of 5,201,853 skillPoints. 18 Drones skills trained, for a total of 6,627,551 skillPoints. I've always liked hedging my bets, as well. I do cap ships and Amarr titan, though. I did the lion's share of this with a 15-17 perception. The attribute modification thingy came way late for me...heheh.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:27:00 - [54] Originally by: Grimpak boohoo? I have 21,689,451 sp in spaceship command, 5,772,240 in missiles and 10,682,360 sp in gunnery, and I still cannot fly capships, T2 BS'es nor shoot T2 L guns. do you see me whining? well, actually not cuz chances are, if something's nerfed, I can still fly the next FOTM This man is intelligent.
Verx Interis Amarr Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:39:00 - [55] I flew Amarr when they sucked. Because I wanted to. They got boosted. I still fly Amarr. When their inevitable nerf comes, I'll still fly them. Don't follow FOTM and you have no problems.
Crimsonjade Amarr Secret Service	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:44:00 - [56] it only takes 1 month to train another FOTM ship. ffs just train ever cruiser to 5 then your set.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.22 01:35:00 - [57] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Actually, I don't think you can respec in WoW, if I remember correctly. Well, actually, there is a free repec happening this very day, cause Blizzard screwed up something with the dual spec implementation. Otherwise you have to pay to respec. But to complain that you have lost anything cause one Recon has been nerefed is silly. You needed Cruiser 5 anyway to fly t1 Crusiers properly and it is needed for HACs too. The Recon skill applies to all races, so will be reused. The electronics stuff is useful anyway, it allows ECM to be used by non specialised ships. Nah, this whine just sounds like the noise coming from the twinks in the game already mentioned, cause the its developer decided that they too were overpowered and neeeded to be brought into line. Just noise from selfish players that I have no respect for.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.22 01:44:00 - [58] Originally by: Banana Torres Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Actually, I don't think you can respec in WoW, if I remember correctly. Well, actually, there is a free repec happening this very day, cause Blizzard screwed up something with the dual spec implementation. Otherwise you have to pay to respec. But to complain that you have lost anything cause one Recon has been nerefed is silly. You needed Cruiser 5 anyway to fly t1 Crusiers properly and it is needed for HACs too. The Recon skill applies to all races, so will be reused. The electronics stuff is useful anyway, it allows ECM to be used by non specialised ships. Nah, this whine just sounds like the noise coming from the twinks in the game already mentioned, cause the its developer decided that they too were overpowered and neeeded to be brought into line. Just noise from selfish players that I have no respect for. I guess what I meant was that you can't change classes in that game, only specializations. If your a paladin, your a paladin and will always be. SWG, you can be a Jedi one day, half our later be a commando, and half hour after that a medic ... all at your current level. EvE, obviously, is better than both of those, because there is no limit. A player can train up multiple classes with little problem, and switch between those with the ease of switching ships. Since EvE doesn't have the unnatural limitations that other games do, I see no reason to implement a skill respec system. If we want to do it all, we can. It just takes time and patience. Rewarding ADD is NEVER good. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.04.22 01:50:00 - [59] I would remove the 3 SPs I have in Gallente Industrial. Damned partially trained skills But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Lady Aja Caldari REUNITED WARRIORS	Posted - 2009.04.22 02:02:00 - [60] Originally by: Ashley Sky CCP, after every patch you nerf something into oblivion that I have invested a fair amount of skill points into training. What do you suggest I do with all those useless skill points? I propose you let us re-order skill points after you ruin our profession in every patch, so that we can put our SP to better use. Your logic is that if you created a junk character you can correct the attributes, but what if you created a junk character because you trained up falcons? if you dont wanna junk character because ccp nerfed a ship then stop training up for FOTM ships!
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.22 02:04:00 - [61] Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Ashley Sky CCP, after every patch you nerf something into oblivion that I have invested a fair amount of skill points into training. What do you suggest I do with all those useless skill points? I propose you let us re-order skill points after you ruin our profession in every patch, so that we can put our SP to better use. Your logic is that if you created a junk character you can correct the attributes, but what if you created a junk character because you trained up falcons? if you dont wanna junk character because ccp nerfed a ship then stop training up for FOTM ships! Further advice is, there are two simple ways to find out what a FOTM ship is: - Listen to the whine threads and nerf calls in GPD, - See what everyone is using on BattleClinic. Right now, I'd say avoid training up for almost anything Amarr
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.04.22 02:10:00 - [62] Spaceship Command - skills: 31, points: 18,317,303. Nub
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2009.04.22 03:07:00 - [63] Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Ashley Sky CCP, after every patch you nerf something into oblivion that I have invested a fair amount of skill points into training. What do you suggest I do with all those useless skill points? I propose you let us re-order skill points after you ruin our profession in every patch, so that we can put our SP to better use. Your logic is that if you created a junk character you can correct the attributes, but what if you created a junk character because you trained up falcons? if you dont wanna junk character because ccp nerfed a ship then stop training up for FOTM ships! I agree. Train the Rifter, it never gets nerfed and never will.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.22 05:49:00 - [64] Originally by: Ashley Sky CCP, after every patch you nerf something into oblivion that I have invested a fair amount of skill points into training. What do you suggest I do with all those useless skill points? I propose you let us re-order skill points after you ruin our profession in every patch, so that we can put our SP to better use. Your logic is that if you created a junk character you can correct the attributes, but what if you created a junk character because you trained up falcons? You have 5M more then me in command and I'm finding plenty of good ships to fly. Pro-TipÖ: get in a Rook, you moop. They're awesome now.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.22 05:50:00 - [65] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Spaceship Command - skills: 31, points: 18,317,303. Nub Well thank god you never cry about the ships you can fly!
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.22 05:52:00 - [66] I'll laugh my buns off if the inevitable Amarr nerf winds up wiping out a whole class of ships (let's say cruisers & BCs, both t1 and t2 varieties) and battleships become FoTM. Let's see how nerfproof people in this thread feel if that happens.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.22 05:58:00 - [67] Originally by: Clair Bear I'll laugh my buns off if the inevitable Amarr nerf winds up wiping out a whole class of ships (let's say cruisers & BCs, both t1 and t2 varieties) and battleships become FoTM. Let's see how nerfproof people in this thread feel if that happens. It's more likely to affect battleships tbh...
Silver Night Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.04.22 06:00:00 - [68] I've got roughly 27,000,000 skillpoints. In spaceship command. I think they're doing fine.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.22 06:07:00 - [69] Originally by: Ashley Sky CCP, after every patch you nerf something into oblivion that I have invested a fair amount of skill points into training. What do you suggest I do with all those useless skill points? I propose you let us re-order skill points after you ruin our profession in every patch, so that we can put our SP to better use. Your logic is that if you created a junk character you can correct the attributes, but what if you created a junk character because you trained up falcons? Seriously, with 14.4M SP in command, of which a maximum of 3.3M can possibly relate to flying a Falcon, you have no excuse whatsoever for being unable to find something good to fly. You have at least 11.1M SP of adaptive capability.
Eldern Minderhost	Posted - 2009.04.22 06:15:00 - [70] Trained amarr ships when they sucked and flew them, still fly them, will continue to fly them... Although I'm currently training Gallente BS for the megathron. That thing is sexy and I don't care what people say against blasters. Oh and 7m in spaceship command. Never feel constrained to a specific role and am able to do what I enjoy across a 3 races of frigates, cruisers, and battlecruisers.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.22 06:15:00 - [71] Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, with 14.4M SP in command, of which a maximum of 3.3M can possibly relate to flying a Falcon, you have no excuse whatsoever for being unable to find something good to fly. You have at least 11.1M SP of adaptive capability. Hauler V Freighter V Barge V Exhumers V Orca V Gallente Blasterboats V I could see having at least 20M sp in that stuff and not having a single useful ship to fly. It's always possible to nerf oneself into uselessness.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.22 06:18:00 - [72] Originally by: Clair Bear Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, with 14.4M SP in command, of which a maximum of 3.3M can possibly relate to flying a Falcon, you have no excuse whatsoever for being unable to find something good to fly. You have at least 11.1M SP of adaptive capability. Hauler V Freighter V Barge V Exhumers V Orca V Gallente Blasterboats V I could see having at least 20M sp in that stuff and not having a single useful ship to fly. It's always possible to nerf oneself into uselessness. All those ships are damn good!
Reiisha Evolution KenZoku	Posted - 2009.04.22 07:28:00 - [73] Edited by: Reiisha on 22/04/2009 07:28:30 Spaceship command: 47 skills, 42,241,243 skillpoints. And i don't really feel that any single SP has been wasted. Except maybe those 2 freighter level 5's. But nothing else! >_> Stop training FOTM and start training something you like. Training FOTM in an environment like EVE is complete idiocy. "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
Kambiri Zoltana Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.22 08:21:00 - [74] I can fly all races t2 ships below marauders. If one race gets nerfed I can quickly jump over to another race.
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.04.22 08:35:00 - [75] Originally by: Clair Bear I purposely specialize in one and only one race's ships and weapon systems. Call me a closet RP geek. Which means I'll be flying a hulk for a year or so until blasters are viable once again. I figure Amarr are slated for the nerfbat, which (if history is any indication) should mostly miss and completely wreck Minmatar in some unforseen way. Caldari have always been meh, which means I'll be sitting pretty once again. Joking aside, I'm not a big fan of forcing everyone to cross-train into every weapon system and every race's hull. Once the old farts are all cross-trained the bulk of eve will be able to instantly switch FoTM. End result: less diversity, newbies continue to be efficiently ground into hamburger and the game is poorer overall. I'd much prefer incentive for specialization. But with the historical precedent of overnerfing and unintended consequences I have absolutely no clue how that could be pulled off. Blasters aren't viable? I must have missed that over the last 4 months since they were "nerfed." Come have a conversation with my Megathron if you think blasters are dead.
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.04.22 08:37:00 - [76] Originally by: Eldern Minderhost Although I'm currently training Gallente BS for the megathron. That thing is sexy and I don't care what people say against blasters. You shouldn't EVER listen to people who tell you blasters are dead. Ever.
Mystafyre Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 08:38:00 - [77] Originally by: Ashley Sky Your logic is that if you created a junk character you can correct the attributes, but what if you created a junk character because you trained up falcons? I have free character slot, just donate your character to me.
Mystafyre Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 08:39:00 - [78] Originally by: Reiisha Edited by: Reiisha on 22/04/2009 07:28:30 Training FOTM in an environment like EVE is complete idiocy. QFT
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.22 08:44:00 - [79] When CCP announced attribute repsecs I predicted that people would soon be asking for skill repsecs on the logic that it's as easy to screw up your skill plan as it is your attributes. People laughed at me.
Reiisha Evolution KenZoku	Posted - 2009.04.23 07:39:00 - [80] Originally by: Rodj Blake When CCP announced attribute repsecs I predicted that people would soon be asking for skill repsecs on the logic that it's as easy to screw up your skill plan as it is your attributes. People laughed at me. People have been asking for skill respecs since EVE started. They're never going to get it. "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.04.23 08:46:00 - [81] Originally by: Ashley Sky You're asking smart players who know what to train (before it gets nerfed) be responsible for being smart and then having the rules changed. That's silly. Smart people know that overpowered things always get nerfed. Smart people use the ships they like, not the ships they figure out is the most powerfull, and don't care much about nerfs if the nerf makes sense. You are not smart. You're just a FOTM whiner, too blind to see where his path inevitably lead. I'll also point out that things get nerfed only when they become a general issue (ie, used by many people), so it's people like you who brought the nerf on your own heads. ------------------------------------------
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.23 08:56:00 - [82] Gunnery: 12 of 40 skills, 962,533 points. Missile Launcher Operation: 20 of 23 skills, 11,296,344 points. And I'm quite happy with it that way round too.
Lonzo Kincaid Black Nova Corp KenZoku	Posted - 2009.04.23 09:10:00 - [83] This is one of those threads where the OP makes a bad suggestion, gets put down, then continues to make bad arguments for his idea and flames people who don't agree with him. This forum needs a sage function, so we can put him down without bumping his thread. ---------------------- Quote: The rule of thumb is you have to outnumber them 2:1 before you even think about engaging them
Valor Anselmo	Posted - 2009.04.23 09:11:00 - [84] ive been playing for just over 2 months, and looking at how many skill points some of you have in Spaceship Command alone makes me wanna cry... blows the dust off his Call of Duty 4 CD
Gossef Caldari Nosferatu Security Force	Posted - 2009.04.23 09:49:00 - [85] +30 Spaceship Command skills trained, for a total of 14,686,562 skillPoints. Cannot fly Falcons, but can fly plenty of other shiny ships:-) and I don't care about FOTM, I just fly whatever I feel like
Nysibel Rhai	Posted - 2009.04.23 09:51:00 - [86] Edited by: Nysibel Rhai on 23/04/2009 09:53:15 Originally by: Clair Bear Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, with 14.4M SP in command, of which a maximum of 3.3M can possibly relate to flying a Falcon, you have no excuse whatsoever for being unable to find something good to fly. You have at least 11.1M SP of adaptive capability. Hauler V Freighter V Barge V Exhumers V Orca V Gallente Blasterboats V I could see having at least 20M sp in that stuff and not having a single useful ship to fly. It's always possible to nerf oneself into uselessness. There is no "Gallente Blasterboats" skill. If you can fly the blasterboats, you can fly the drone ships/fleet rail boats as well. And blasterboats really aren't nearly as bad as people who whine make them out to be.
OneSock Crown Industries	Posted - 2009.04.23 11:15:00 - [87] Originally by: Scyala I've never seen CCP nerf something in to oblivion. They've nerfed ships and adjusted some roles but i can't think of any ship that is not flown because of a nerf (i know a few ships that aren't flown much because another of the same class is better). Try Eos. Used to be an awesome PVE ship until CCP nerfed it. I wonder how many others apart from mine are rusting forgotten in their hangers.
Irulan S'Dijana Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.04.23 11:18:00 - [88] I chose Amarr because at the time they were the weakest and had been for a long time. Stupid buffs. - Nobody gets rich in this business. You simply obtain new levels of relative poverty.
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2009.04.23 11:24:00 - [89] I can fly Caldari ships better then the Caldari themselves! Do u see the irony in that? I do! _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Hanns Amarr Secret Service	Posted - 2009.04.23 11:38:00 - [90] Originally by: Reiisha Edited by: Reiisha on 22/04/2009 07:28:30 Spaceship command: 47 skills, 42,241,243 skillpoints. And i don't really feel that any single SP has been wasted. Except maybe those 2 freighter level 5's. But nothing else! >_> Stop training FOTM and start training something you like. Training FOTM in an environment like EVE is complete idiocy. you say stop training FOTM you seriously telling me you trained up all your SC skills because you liked them and not because they were FOTM? Originally by: Tuxford a new retribution bonus +1 med slot per level
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.04.23 13:53:00 - [91] Originally by: Hanns Originally by: Reiisha Edited by: Reiisha on 22/04/2009 07:28:30 Spaceship command: 47 skills, 42,241,243 skillpoints. And i don't really feel that any single SP has been wasted. Except maybe those 2 freighter level 5's. But nothing else! >_> Stop training FOTM and start training something you like. Training FOTM in an environment like EVE is complete idiocy. you say stop training FOTM you seriously telling me you trained up all your SC skills because you liked them and not because they were FOTM? Some of us like to try out many things, and variety. Doesn't make us FOTM players. 21M sp in spaceship command. I fly mainly amarr ships since years, used them when they were the worst. I use tracking disruptors as EW, because I despise the overpowerdness of ECM. Never used a gankageddon, or cavalry raven, or nano-vaggabond. I'm better than that. Reiisha: Mining forman V, Marauders V, you carebear. You should train Drone Interfacing V, this lapse is shocking in a 80+M SP combat char. ------------------------------------------
Amitious Turkey Gallente Ammo Tech Inc	Posted - 2009.04.23 15:00:00 - [92] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Armoured C Edited by: Armoured C on 21/04/2009 20:40:02 im 18 @ 10 but im not a cap pilot heard you get a lot os SP from flying cap ships =) Advanced space ship command - 4 amarr BS - 4 amarr cruiser - 5 amarr frig - 4 assult ship - 4 BC - 5 command ship - 4 cov op - 4 destroyer - 2 EAS - 3 gallente BS - 4 gallente cruiser - 5 gallente frig - 5 gallente industrial - 5 HAC - 4 logistic - 4 recon - 4 space ship command - 5 Amarr Battleship level 5 Amarr Cruiser level 5 Amarr Frigate level 5 Amarr Industrial level 1 Amarr Strategic Cruiser level 2 Assault Ships level 4 Battlecruisers level 5 Caldari Battleship level 5 Caldari Cruiser level 5 Caldari Frigate level 5 Caldari Strategic Cruiser level 2 Command Ships level 4 Covert Ops level 4 training to level 5 Destroyers level 5 Electronic Attack Ships level 4 Gallente Battleship level 5 Gallente Cruiser level 5 Gallente Frigate level 5 Gallente Industrial level 3 Gallente Strategic Cruiser level 2 Heavy Assault Ships level 4 Heavy Interdictors level 4 Interceptors level 4 Interdictors level 4 Logistics level 4 Mining Barge level 4 Minmatar Battleship level 5 Minmatar Cruiser level 5 Minmatar Frigate level 5 Minmatar Industrial level 5 Minmatar Strategic Cruiser level 1 Recon Ships level 4 Spaceship Command level 5 Transport Ships level 4 nerf proof? yes I am. I was gonna post my skills, but now I'm ashamed... (\_/) (O.o) (> <) The writer of the article did not quote himself- Cortes
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.04.23 17:11:00 - [93] What i gathered from reading this thread: That Grimpak guy has all battleship skills on 5. Yet, he can not use any T2 large guns. I mean whatever floats your boat but that sure looks like wasted sp, no? -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Taedrin Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate	Posted - 2009.04.23 17:41:00 - [94] If you've been playing EVE for any significant amount of time, you should realise: Anything, and everything will eventually change. EVE's mantra is adapt or die. If you can not adapt to a change, then you will lose. If you can adapt to a change, then you will win. Sometimes CCP gives an advantage to a certain class of players, and sometimes they will take away an advantage held by another class of players. Things are always changing, sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the worse. This is what makes EVE what it is - it is always changing, evolving.
D'Artagnan Bladerunners KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.23 18:01:00 - [95] I can only fly Minmatar ships so I have been nerfed since 2003 so quit your bloody moaning about a ship that is still very good.
Hipsu Rosvosektori The Polaris Syndicate	Posted - 2009.04.23 18:12:00 - [96] 24mil in SC minmatar & gallente specced.... so train other races?
Aceru Gallente Apellon	Posted - 2009.04.23 18:27:00 - [97] I got tired of reading the first page in. Would you like some cheese with your wine? Originally by: Vall Kor If you're in a fair fight, you didn't plan it properly.
BlackMail Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.23 18:59:00 - [98] 42 Spaceship Command skills trained, for a total of 28,294,580 skillpoints. Im good to go --------------------------------------- Blackmail Cutting Edge Incorporated All Around Good Guy
Wired Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.04.23 19:35:00 - [99] Nerfbat swings Wired laughs it off Ok, there's a couple of holes, but I'm working on them. ============================================= My sig got edited, and all i got was a lousy e-mail
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2009.04.23 19:39:00 - [100] It is sort of funny, but I started out as amarr when amarr was still considered to be a bit gimpy, however I stuck with it because I simply enjoy the ships. Now that amarr is 'awesome' it is a little more fun flying the ships, but when we get our turn in the nerf machine again, I will just keep flying the ships. I guess maybe there is something flawed in my attitude for not being obsessed with flying whatever the win button at the moment is, but I find it is much easier to just go with the flow and be bad when your ships are bad and be good when they are good... <-------------------------------------------------> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
Ashley Sky The Scope	Posted - 2009.04.23 19:59:00 - [101] I think it's funny that none of you can remember that Amarr used to be awesome. The only ship that could fit 8 Miner IIs with drones. It was the ultimate miner. There's a video of an Apoc sieging a highsec trade hub (the former Yulai) by the Zombies corp with epic concord fail. No ammo required. Everyone wanted to be Amarr. That's why they were nerfed so hard for so long. Now they're making a comeback. Oh also, if you have 20 mil SP in spaceship command, you better have at least 20m in gunnery and missiles, or you suck at whatever you fly. Congrats on being able to fly anything, badly.
DeadRow Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2009.04.23 20:07:00 - [102] 24 skills @ 21,216,629 sp No captials though I lust after a carrier Pretty much nerf proof too \o/ Norrin Ellis > What?! Boobs aren't inappropriate! They feed children! For God's sake, think of the children!
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.04.23 20:16:00 - [103] Originally by: Ashley Sky Oh also, if you have 20 mil SP in spaceship command, you better have at least 20m in gunnery and missiles, or you suck at whatever you fly. Congrats on being able to fly anything, badly. It's nice to have 20 mil SP in Spaceship Command and another 20 mil SP in Gunnery/Missiles but if you all don't place some points into those forgotten and non-sexy secondary skills you might has well be a cube of butter in a microwave set on high. Heck I have high SP in the Ships/weapons/secondary stuff that I like to fly and I still fly em badly. Just cause you got the SP don't mean you can find your ass with both hands with the lights on. You know what I mean Vern? ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
BhallSpawn	Posted - 2009.04.24 08:07:00 - [104] For once I'd like to see a company buff things to balance the game. Instead of picking out certain things that are thought to be strong, when in fact its just certain things are weak to it. This would take some logic and proper programming. But finding that in CCP is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.24 08:16:00 - [105] hey hey your all doing it wrong :/ http://ineve.net/skills/ships_can_fly.php?charID=MTc4MjUwMzk2OQ%3D%3D Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.24 08:18:00 - [106] Originally by: BhallSpawn For once I'd like to see a company buff things to balance the game. Instead of picking out certain things that are thought to be strong, when in fact its just certain things are weak to it. This would take some logic and proper programming. But finding that in CCP is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Er, you mean like the Stealthbombers? Or the Rook? Or when the Apoc got a 25% cap boost? Or when Caldari ships finally got their agility stats fixed? Or when Carriers got their hitpoints massively increased? People take the buffs they get for granted within 48 hours, but they whine about the nerfs forever.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.04.24 10:01:00 - [107] Originally by: Ashley Sky Originally by: Flamewave 15,244,819. If I don't like it, I just fly something else. Imagine if you could put all the crap ship SP into something that's currently useful. Imagine if they gave you 100m SP right off the bat! "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Cipher7	Posted - 2009.04.24 10:20:00 - [108] This thread makes me feel better. I thought I was the only gimp with millions in spaceship command. I don't follow FOTM really, just can't decide what I really really REALLY want to specialize in.
Grimpak Gallente Clubs and Diamonds	Posted - 2009.04.24 10:56:00 - [109] Originally by: Myra2007 What i gathered from reading this thread: That Grimpak guy has all battleship skills on 5. Yet, he can not use any T2 large guns. I mean whatever floats your boat but that sure looks like wasted sp, no? well, let's just say that I've trained BS 5 when I needed to take a small break from EVE. I also don't use BS'es in pvp, but mostly in PvE, and even so I'm using a NH to run missions atm, so I never felt the need to train them T2 L guns. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Wacktopia Infinity Miners Union Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr	Posted - 2009.04.24 11:42:00 - [110] Originally by: Ashley Sky Originally by: Flamewave 15,244,819. If I don't like it, I just fly something else. Imagine if you could put all the crap ship SP into something that's currently useful. Then the game would be more wooly and less fun. I think you are expecting the game to somehow reward you for spending years training skill points to an elite level where you can sit back and relax, happy that you are a "level 70". EVE =/= WOW
Tellenta Gallente Invicta. Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.24 13:59:00 - [111] Originally by: Ashley Sky CCP, after every patch you nerf something into oblivion that I have invested a fair amount of skill points into training. What do you suggest I do with all those useless skill points? I propose you let us re-order skill points after you ruin our profession in every patch, so that we can put our SP to better use. Your logic is that if you created a junk character you can correct the attributes, but what if you created a junk character because you trained up falcons? I have 11,330,140 sp in spaceship command and can fly amarr and gallente hac's/recons gallente capital ships, and a fine slew of other ships. WTF are you doing wrong with your training that makes you a failure dispite more skill training?
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.04.24 15:13:00 - [112] how do you "nerf proof" guys do it... im at 56mil and i only have projectiles as t2. no im not a miner, never have been. nor am i a capital pilot. maybe substract 9mil for leadership skills but thats it... - putting the gist back into logistics
Tellenta Gallente Invicta. Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.24 15:25:00 - [113] Originally by: Roemy Schneider how do you "nerf proof" guys do it... im at 56mil and i only have projectiles as t2. no im not a miner, never have been. nor am i a capital pilot. maybe substract 9mil for leadership skills but thats it... cross training to another races t2 cruiser class is really quick if you pick the right ones. If you are minmatar specced even easier as you probably have shield and armor tanking trained. so it's just T1 cruiser 5 and medium t2 guns and you are done.
Reiisha Evolution KenZoku	Posted - 2009.05.10 04:35:00 - [114] Originally by: Hanns Originally by: Reiisha Edited by: Reiisha on 22/04/2009 07:28:30 Spaceship command: 47 skills, 42,241,243 skillpoints. And i don't really feel that any single SP has been wasted. Except maybe those 2 freighter level 5's. But nothing else! >_> Stop training FOTM and start training something you like. Training FOTM in an environment like EVE is complete idiocy. you say stop training FOTM you seriously telling me you trained up all your SC skills because you liked them and not because they were FOTM? Basically, yes. I want to be able to fly every single ship in EVE. And before Nonamium and Tozz came along the top spot in Spaceship Command on InEVE was nice to have ^^ Also, a nice medium-rare thread resurrection feels nice once in a while. "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
Bullageddon Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.10 04:38:00 - [115] n-n-n-n-n-n-n-necro-oh-oh-oh-oh === This Space For Lease or Sale.
Jint Hikaru Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.05.10 08:02:00 - [116] Eve is a game of choice and consiquence, in a dynamic changing universe. You choose to pirate, you loose access to empire space without grinding up your sec status. You choose to be a miner, you have to invest skill points in industrial skills which means you arn't skilling in offensive/defensive skills. You choose to scam, you have to continue to play with a reputation. To the OP.... YOU chose to train your skills for a Falcon (i presume this is what you are crying about). I am guessing it is because you were told that the Falcon was the "best and most uber ship ever omgzors!!!"..... ....now you dont want to suffer the consiquences of you actions! Cry me a river. Respecs of skill points will ruin the game. ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Lardarz B'stard Amarr Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.05.10 08:08:00 - [117] Spaceship command 24 skills 19,509,793 points, not a capital in sight. 100% whine-free for 6 years. -----------------------------------------------
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.10 10:47:00 - [118] Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Originally by: Ashley Sky Originally by: Flamewave 15,244,819. If I don't like it, I just fly something else. Imagine if you could put all the crap ship SP into something that's currently useful. Imagine Amarr online We don't really have to. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Ringo Jeicha Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:19:00 - [119] Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Originally by: Ashley Sky Originally by: Flamewave 15,244,819. If I don't like it, I just fly something else. Imagine if you could put all the crap ship SP into something that's currently useful. Imagine Amarr online YES i predicted it! Eve went from gallente online to caldari online to minmatar online (nano) to amarr online. Do you realize amarr sucked at one point? --- Braaaiiinnnsssssssssss
Haks'he Lirky Burning Bright Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:23:00 - [120] Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 10/05/2009 12:24:59 18,521,788 in spaceship command, I have never chased the FOTM and I would not trade out a single skill point from this category. I can essentially jump into any kind of ship (bar a capital) and be competitive in it. If you constantly follow the FOTM and then cry about it you are either stupid or a masochist.
Imertu Solientai Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:25:00 - [121] Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert Edited by: VoiceInTheDesert on 21/04/2009 20:17:42 1. Falcons are fine 2. That's what you get for being a FOTM follower 3. This is not wow, there are no respecs, deal with it. THIS. THIS. THIS. THIS. THIS. CLEAR SKIES 2 IS OUT! PLEASE SEED!
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:34:00 - [122] 13.6 mil in spaceship command, 41 mil total, and i'm just NOW getting to the point where I could actually start chasing the FOTM. I regret training Command Ships and Gallente Cruiser V + Medium T2 blasters. I dunno why I trained for a Deimos in the first place :-/ __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:36:00 - [123] Originally by: Terianna Eri 13.6 mil in spaceship command, 41 mil total, and i'm just NOW getting to the point where I could actually start chasing the FOTM. I regret training Command Ships and Gallente Cruiser V + Medium T2 blasters. I dunno why I trained for a Deimos in the first place :-/ Ahem, Ishtar...
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.10 13:04:00 - [124] 80m Spaceshipcommand SP/5 accounts. not whining. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.05.10 13:38:00 - [125] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Terianna Eri 13.6 mil in spaceship command, 41 mil total, and i'm just NOW getting to the point where I could actually start chasing the FOTM. I regret training Command Ships and Gallente Cruiser V + Medium T2 blasters. I dunno why I trained for a Deimos in the first place :-/ Ahem, Ishtar... 2.5 mil in drones __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Guilty Man Minmatar Guilty People	Posted - 2009.05.10 14:47:00 - [126] peen length = 30cm (in cold water)

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