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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.22 01:15:00 -
[1]
I would like to here it from a Dev. If so then it's pointless for anyone point out the flaws in the contract scheme since everything is working as expected. |
Kyle Langdon
Gallente Killson Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.22 01:25:00 -
[2]
Don't you think that if they didn't condone it they would have put an end to it already? |
Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.22 01:26:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kyle Langdon Don't you think that if they didn't condone it they would have put an end to it already?
Not at the rate they fix things. |
Some Advisor
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 01:27:00 -
[4]
yes
next question? |
Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.22 01:46:00 -
[5]
well you want a dev reply.
go to jita, get low level scamed, petition, read responce - done :)
its perfectly legal |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 01:51:00 -
[6]
I'd say petition anyway. He's not going to accept a response from the playerbase, and the chances of a GM/Dev reply on the forums are minimal, especially for 'appeal' posts like this one.
By the way ... any of you guys remember the old escrow system? As I was looking up dev posts for Neo here, it crossed my mind. Bit of nostalgia coming up, I guess. |
Sirani
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Posted - 2009.04.22 01:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Xtreem
its perfectly legal
man i'd hate to be locked up in prison for scamming someone in a video game. about spaceships. |
Stealth Troll
Minmatar Sekrit Klub
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Posted - 2009.04.22 02:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP yes
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.22 02:15:00 -
[9]
Well, I sent a petition since there was a category for questions about contracts and trade.
Maybe I'll get an answer.
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Maxwell Terallis
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Posted - 2009.04.22 02:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Neo Omni Well, I sent a petition since there was a category for questions about contracts and trade.
Maybe I'll get an answer.
You will get an answer.
And the answer will be: "Contract scamming is acceptable."
|
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Tauranon
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.04.22 02:33:00 -
[11]
its surely working as intended.
I find it interesting to look at the contract history of some scammers, quite a few 2 week old alts have scammed 2 bil+, which is fun. Inspecting one scammer, even showed a buyer that got scammed twice for 200mil for launchers, who then went on to sell the resulting ship he'd fitted on contracts for a little over 100mil. ie he was probably working to a total of 10mil profit, yet didn't seem to notice the 400mil loss!
Unfortunately scammers recycling alts is undoing my blocks of scam contract spammers, which makes various locals uncomfortable, so thats probably the only aspect that bears looking at.
|
Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.22 03:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sirani
Originally by: Xtreem
its perfectly legal
man i'd hate to be locked up in prison for scamming someone in a video game. about spaceships.
when you see goods that are non legal in some facions space do you think "omg i could go to jail" or do you take it for the ingame context its meant?
when i say legal, i mean in game, ie not bannable, sheesh |
Cerebus Alteri
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Posted - 2009.04.22 03:17:00 -
[13]
maybe they need a tutorial intro that goes something like...
"If something seems too good to be true in eve be it contracts and trades and "free isk" 95% of the time it is too good be true, this applies to real life as well. If you accept these deals more than likely you are going to lose money."
end tutorial.
that should sum it up, if people not learned this lesson themselves by the time they hop into eve, then i dunno how they get along in life generally.
|
Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.22 03:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cerebus Alteri maybe they need a tutorial intro that goes something like...
"If something seems too good to be true in eve be it contracts and trades and "free isk" 95% of the time it is too good be true, this applies to real life as well. If you accept these deals more than likely you are going to lose money."
end tutorial.
that should sum it up, if people not learned this lesson themselves by the time they hop into eve, then i dunno how they get along in life generally.
Believe it or not, not all places in the world are cut-throat in disposition.
I have lived in both, so yes I know what you mean. Currently I live in a small town where people still leave their front doors and cars unlocked.
It's just that CCP makes such issues about exploits, and this surely seems more like an exploit than game play. |
Quantar Raalsken
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 03:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cerebus Alteri maybe they need a tutorial intro that goes something like...
"If something seems too good to be true in eve be it contracts and trades and "free isk" 95% of the time it is too good be true, this applies to real life as well. If you accept these deals more than likely you are going to lose money."
end tutorial.
that should sum it up, if people not learned this lesson themselves by the time they hop into eve, then i dunno how they get along in life generally.
i can hear arua say that so clearly in my head that its kinda scary....i hate that ***** for laughing when i got podded.....scared the **** out of me AND added insult to injury too ======= Homeworld Hamachi Network
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.22 03:50:00 -
[16]
Scamming is PVP
EVE is PVP based
Welcome to EVE. === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 04:07:00 -
[17]
Scamming is fine and all, but the latest contract scam is plain irritating. CCP need to make the amounts easier to read - it does for round figures; 50,000,000 will say 50mil, why dosen't 49,999,999?
I guess the main issue with it is it takes no effort whatsoever. Don't need to undock or open a convo or anything - Just a macro that spams your contract link in local all day long and you'll rake in those billions in no time.
|
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.04.22 04:15:00 -
[18]
OMFG at the above pic. That must be a mothership worth of scammed isk.
As for the OP, search the knowledge base or petition a gm in-game if you don't believe us. Scamming, stealing, lying, spying, sabotage - all are legal within the great game that is known as EVE. |
Cerebus Alteri
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Posted - 2009.04.22 04:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Quantar Raalsken
Originally by: Cerebus Alteri maybe they need a tutorial intro that goes something like...
"If something seems too good to be true in eve be it contracts and trades and "free isk" 95% of the time it is too good be true, this applies to real life as well. If you accept these deals more than likely you are going to lose money."
end tutorial.
that should sum it up, if people not learned this lesson themselves by the time they hop into eve, then i dunno how they get along in life generally.
i can hear arua say that so clearly in my head that its kinda scary....i hate that ***** for laughing when i got podded.....scared the **** out of me AND added insult to injury too
lol i could hear her saying it as i typed it.
and yea i grew up in a small town, went to school in the big city. i seen both sides of the fence. but i think it was my grandfather that taught me early on the if something looks too good to be true it most likely is. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.22 04:38:00 -
[20]
A fool without a bank alt is soon departed of her ISKies. |
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Cyprus Black
Caldari Elitist Jerks Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.22 04:40:00 -
[21]
EvE is not like other MMOs. Scamming is indeed an acceptable practice ingame. Something you should have been aware of had you read the newbie guide.
Another thing you should know since you're skipping such important newbie information. EvE is a game of reading. If you skimming through everything, you'll eventually get shanked by another player or worse.
Paranoia is a virtue. Be careful who you trust. Beware of strangers offering candy. |
Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 04:45:00 -
[22]
I cant Get legitimate Petitions answerd, becuase theres a Que of 10k Idiots infront of me
Put a Warning in the Tutorial, 'caveat emptor' and all that, or better yet, chnge the damm contract front page so that is summerizes the prices into 3 significant numbers, rounded up, with engineering notation after it, you can can have the full price number down to its final two digits in the accept page.
OMGWTF?
....change the damm contract front page so that is summerizes the prices into 3 significant numbers, rounded up, with engineering notation after it...
Wow, its like if they adopted a system used by everyone else in the world thered be no problems
|
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.22 04:47:00 -
[23]
All you need is two decimal places, Joe. That's all you need. |
Fawkyou Pirates
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Posted - 2009.04.22 04:55:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Fawkyou Pirates on 22/04/2009 04:59:05
Originally by: Rawr Cristina Scamming is fine and all, but the latest contract scam is plain irritating. CCP need to make the amounts easier to read - it does for round figures; 50,000,000 will say 50mil, why dosen't 49,999,999?
Fourty-Nine Million, Nine Hundred Ninety-Nine Thousand, Nine Hundred and Ninety-Nine.....
I'd rather use the mathematical skills I acquired in the Second grade and LOOK at the ****ing decimal places than read all that ****.
Edit : Anyone who falls for this **** is ******ed and pretty much deserves to lose the ISK. I'm confident they would have lost it anyway either to the scam contract or probably something equally thoughtless.
Here is my tip to avoid being scammed by a contract... pay close attention its incredible and ground breaking...
Read the ****ing contract for at least 2 seconds before you click accept. Decimal places man.... decimals...
|
Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 04:56:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon All you need is two decimal places, Joe. That's all you need.
Or accept a system that Millions of Technicians use everday?
1.999.999 = 2 milllion 1.749.999.999 = 1.75 Billion 24.499.999 = 24.5 Million
The current contract system boils down to Implementation of poor systems, Ignoring curent conventions used Everywhere else in the world.
CCP, ask your Electronic Technicians at work what they think of your system, I'm sure youve got a few floating about in that staff of 350.
Recruiting Amarr PVE Enthusiasts |
Maxwell Terallis
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 04:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Joe I cant Get legitimate Petitions answerd, becuase theres a Que of 10k Idiots infront of me
Put a Warning in the Tutorial, 'caveat emptor' and all that, or better yet, chnge the damm contract front page so that is summerizes the prices into 3 significant numbers, rounded up, with engineering notation after it, you can can have the full price number down to its final two digits in the accept page.
OMGWTF?
....change the damm contract front page so that is summerizes the prices into 3 significant numbers, rounded up, with engineering notation after it...
Wow, its like if they adopted a system used by everyone else in the world thered be no problems
Hate to break it to you, but this wouldn't be a legitimate petition either.... It would be idiot petition 10,001.
There are no warnings needed in the tutorial or anywhere else.
If someone sends you a message that says: "Buy my product for 30,000 isk from this contract" and the contract says "29,999,999" - it is your fault and your fault alone you didn't have the mathematical comprehension to see it is not 30,000.
|
Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.04.22 05:03:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Joe on 22/04/2009 05:06:58 edit=double post after one of the most idiotic resposes ive ever seen, lack or reading comprehension, in a thread about people haveing a lack of reading comprehension
Recruiting Amarr PVE Enthusiasts |
Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 05:05:00 -
[28]
edit= Who cares anyway, its allready been proven half the eve users wont read it properly anyway Originally by: Maxwell Terallis
Originally by: Joe I cant Get legitimate Petitions answerd, becuase theres a Que of 10k Idiots infront of me
Put a Warning in the Tutorial, 'caveat emptor' and all that, or better yet, chnge the damm contract front page so that is summerizes the prices into 3 significant numbers, rounded up, with engineering notation after it, you can can have the full price number down to its final two digits in the accept page.
OMGWTF?
....change the damm contract front page so that is summerizes the prices into 3 significant numbers, rounded up, with engineering notation after it...
Wow, its like if they adopted a system used by everyone else in the world thered be no problems
Hate to break it to you, but this wouldn't be a legitimate petition either.... It would be idiot petition 10,001.
There are no warnings needed in the tutorial or anywhere else.
If someone sends you a message that says: "Buy my product for 30,000 isk from this contract" and the contract says "29,999,999" - it is your fault and your fault alone you didn't have the mathematical comprehension to see it is not 30,000.
AND THIS IS WHY THERE ARE SCAMS, PEOPLE LACK READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS
I didn't state what my petition is about, i complained becuase my petition is behind 10k idiots that have been scammed becuase they cant read.
The post offers a simple solution for CCP, its got nothing todo about a Petition ive still got waiting, on a different Issue.
Recruiting Amarr PVE Enthusiasts |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 05:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Joe
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon All you need is two decimal places, Joe. That's all you need.
Or accept a system that Millions of Technicians use everday?
1.999.999 = 2 milllion 1.749.999.999 = 1.75 Billion 24.499.999 = 24.5 Million
The current contract system boils down to Implementation of poor systems, Ignoring curent conventions used Everywhere else in the world.
CCP, ask your Electronic Technicians at work what they think of your system, I'm sure youve got a few floating about in that staff of 350.
Well, I'm not an electronic technician, and your proposed system is about as unfamiliar to me as what CCP's using now.
What I DO know, is simple.
35,000,000.00
Comma's, decimals, understandable. Pretty much straight-forward and easy to understand, even for someone with just a high-school education.
Now, CCP uses that convention in a lot of places. Market, rents, industry, repair, cloning, etc. There are TWO exceptions that I've found. The contract page, and the mission reward page, both of which are rather new.
So, everything else in EvE presents money as: 10,000,000.00
Contracts, on the other hand, present money as: 10,000,000
While mission rewards present money as: ten million credits OR 10,000,000 (don't ask my why they do it one way one time and a different the next ... they just do)
Seems reasonable to me that the best fix is the simplest one. Just add two decimal places.
|
Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 05:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Comma's, decimals, understandable. Pretty much straight-forward and easy to understand, even for someone with just a high-school education.
It was allready accepted by CCP that half their playerbase couldn't understand a plain number infront of them, thats one of the reason the old 'Escrow' system got changed to the new 'contract' system, and theres a series of pages you have to work through to accept a contract, the first page being one that displays the number in WORDS aswell as numbers.
whatever muppet implemented it tho, forgot that people dont only sell things for an even number, and so didnt write anycode that would have solved this simple problem for the people out there that have reading problems.
Recruiting Amarr PVE Enthusiasts |
|
Maria Kalista
Amarr Emerald Forest Securities
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Posted - 2009.04.22 05:16:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina ....it takes no effort whatsoever. Don't need to undock or open a convo or anything - Just a macro that spams your contract link in local all day long and you'll rake in those billions in no time.
OMFG!
I'm doing it wrong.
Originally by: Jacharian This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in.
|
Maxwell Terallis
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 06:29:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Joe edit= Who cares anyway, its allready been proven half the eve users wont read it properly anyway Originally by: Maxwell Terallis
Originally by: Joe I cant Get legitimate Petitions answerd, becuase theres a Que of 10k Idiots infront of me
Put a Warning in the Tutorial, 'caveat emptor' and all that, or better yet, chnge the damm contract front page so that is summerizes the prices into 3 significant numbers, rounded up, with engineering notation after it, you can can have the full price number down to its final two digits in the accept page.
OMGWTF?
....change the damm contract front page so that is summerizes the prices into 3 significant numbers, rounded up, with engineering notation after it...
Wow, its like if they adopted a system used by everyone else in the world thered be no problems
Hate to break it to you, but this wouldn't be a legitimate petition either.... It would be idiot petition 10,001.
There are no warnings needed in the tutorial or anywhere else.
If someone sends you a message that says: "Buy my product for 30,000 isk from this contract" and the contract says "29,999,999" - it is your fault and your fault alone you didn't have the mathematical comprehension to see it is not 30,000.
AND THIS IS WHY THERE ARE SCAMS, PEOPLE LACK READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS
I didn't state what my petition is about, i complained becuase my petition is behind 10k idiots that have been scammed becuase they cant read.
The post offers a simple solution for CCP, its got nothing todo about a Petition ive still got waiting, on a different Issue.
Context, Joe... Context.
People earlier are talking about filing a petition and see what type of answer to get about CCP taking care of scamming. The first line of your post is talking about filing a petition. You say now that your mention of the 10,000 idiots in front of you is referring to people complaining about getting scammed, but not once do you attempt to reference that to your sentence.
Do not accuse me of lack of reading comprehension when it is your poorly-written response causing the conclusions drawn.
I will also note how you completely disregarded the rest of my response where I mentioned nothing about reading comprehension. It's mathematical comprehension that is causing people to buy something for 29,999,999 and thinking it was 30,000.
Be more clear in your responses and there will be less criticism of them.
|
Joe Martin
Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.04.22 06:36:00 -
[33]
A fool and his money are soon parted.
This goes for everyone that has fallen into a contract scam. The contract system tells you explicitly how much you're paying for something. Twice. If you're not paying attention and get scammed anyways, oh well. CCP unfortunately can't code stupid out of people.
|
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.04.22 06:43:00 -
[34]
As a proud member of PERVS I can only say that we support this kind of scamming and have made FORTUNE out of it! Comoon guys, cheap invul II's only for 999,999,999 isk! Get it! You know you want it! |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 08:01:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kuolematon As a proud member of PERVS I can only say that we support this kind of scamming and have made FORTUNE out of it! Comoon guys, cheap invul II's only for 999,999,999 isk! Get it! You know you want it!
Don't listen to this fool. By my cheap invul I1s — only 999,989,999 ISK! |
Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 08:31:00 -
[36]
contractscam.jpg
This looks like money laundering to me... <-------------------------------------------------> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein |
Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 11:41:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Billy Sastard contractscam.jpg
This looks like money laundering to me...
Seems so. --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 11:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Fawkyou Pirates
Fourty-Nine Million, Nine Hundred Ninety-Nine Thousand, Nine Hundred and Ninety-Nine.....
Or just make it so: 49,849,999 = 49,849,999.00 (49.85 million ISK)
It has nothing to do with being stupid or deserving to lose isk.
- Contagious - |
dr doooo
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 11:50:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tauranon its surely working as intended.
I find it interesting to look at the contract history of some scammers, quite a few 2 week old alts have scammed 2 bil+, which is fun. Inspecting one scammer, even showed a buyer that got scammed twice for 200mil for launchers, who then went on to sell the resulting ship he'd fitted on contracts for a little over 100mil. ie he was probably working to a total of 10mil profit, yet didn't seem to notice the 400mil loss!
Unfortunately scammers recycling alts is undoing my blocks of scam contract spammers, which makes various locals uncomfortable, so thats probably the only aspect that bears looking at.
|
BillyBong2
Amarr Destructive Influence KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 11:53:00 -
[40]
Of course they condone, if a player does not take the time to look at what they are buying then who is to blame? The other person is just really trying to weed out the idoits and at the same time teaching them a lesson in basic reading. |
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Da Death
Minmatar Relentless Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.04.22 12:15:00 -
[41]
well one thing for sure:
As long as it is not CCP's money they don't care (most probably). But besides SCAM it is also heavy SPAM. And children, I can tell you that it will get much more worse. In the near future you have to go through 50 contracts -of which 30+ are scams- to find an item. And, hey, the fun just started =)
I never saw more people pi**ed off in the last 6 years then now. isn't that reason enough for our EvE-Gods to rethink the system?
A happy player is a paying player. |
Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 12:28:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Billy Sastard contractscam.jpg
This looks like money laundering to me...
Nice. I should try that! |
Seishi Maru
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 12:36:00 -
[43]
If you are unable to count the number of zeros or nines in a number you DESERVE TO BE SCAMMED!!
For god's sake.. if half of eve is able to do it and never ever fall to a scam (because they do count) why in hell can't you?
You need to be really really stupid or drunk to fall for that scamms. |
Chinwe Rhei
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 12:46:00 -
[44]
I don't mind the scams so much as the spam.
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 12:51:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Seishi Maru If you are unable to count the number of zeros or nines in a number you DESERVE TO BE SCAMMED!!
More importantly, if you are unable to use some basic pattern recognition and figure out that no non-scammer would set a price in the 999,999,etc format, you will always be a target for scams, no matter how much CCP tries to improve the UI.
There's absolutely zero need to count the numbers — a proper contract will have a sensible number and not trigger the "no text description" bug/misfeature/omission. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 12:56:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Billy Sastard contractscam.jpg
This looks like money laundering to me...
Absolutely. Sad that CCP neither has the manpower nor any interest in investigating such stuff.
With their mechanics they make it really easy for RMT and isk sellers/buyers. Suspicious people can always argue that they got scammed, everyone would understand that ...
|
Miilla
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 12:59:00 -
[47]
The most annoying people are not the scammers but the CRY BABIES who cannot play eve for no life nor money without running crying CCP this CCP that.
Give up on Eve, you fail at it miserably. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 13:30:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Joe Martin A fool and his money are soon parted.
This goes for everyone that has fallen into a contract scam. The contract system tells you explicitly how much you're paying for something. Twice. If you're not paying attention and get scammed anyways, oh well. CCP unfortunately can't code stupid out of people.
Pretty much this. |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 13:30:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Billy Sastard contractscam.jpg
This looks like money laundering to me...
Absolutely. Sad that CCP neither has the manpower nor any interest in investigating such stuff.
I highly doubt it has anything to do with RMT. Every time I go to Amarr that person is spamming those same contracts in local, even the ones that had been completed. None of the characters that were scammed look like obvious alts, either. It's what it looks like; a 23/7 spam macro that has net someone over 10bil in a week. |
Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 13:31:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 22/04/2009 13:32:13
Originally by: Miilla The most annoying people are not the scammers but the CRY BABIES who cannot play eve for no life nor money without running crying CCP this CCP that.
Give up on Eve, you fail at it miserably.
The most annoying people here are those with negative attitudes about everything that is posted. That always interpret a question as a troll, or an issue someone has as a cry baby ploy. You all should be banned for even $uggesting people fail and $hould leave EVE.
I asked a question...I got an answer:
start message------------------------ Hi,
Scams are perfectly allowed, as long as they do not exploit a bug within the game.
Contract scams are as such allowed, and a part of the game.
If you have any further issues, please don't hesitate to contact us again.
Best regards, GM *********** EVE Online Customer Support end message------------------------
So there is nothing more to be said.
Originally by: Maria Kalista
Originally by: Rawr Cristina ....it takes no effort whatsoever. Don't need to undock or open a convo or anything - Just a macro that spams your contract link in local all day long and you'll rake in those billions in no time.
OMFG!
I'm doing it wrong.
Apparently we are all doing it all wrong. Unfortunately this tactic turns contracts into a wasteland of 9's and misleading user info. That in itself may turn away new plays.
Imagine that...a game where cheating is allowed. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 13:31:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Da Death well one thing for sure:
As long as it is not CCP's money they don't care (most probably). But besides SCAM it is also heavy SPAM. And children, I can tell you that it will get much more worse. In the near future you have to go through 50 contracts -of which 30+ are scams- to find an item. And, hey, the fun just started =)
I never saw more people pi**ed off in the last 6 years then now. isn't that reason enough for our EvE-Gods to rethink the system?
A happy player is a paying player.
Sort by price. Even if you're too dumb to read, your PC will have no problem seperating 999,999.99 fro 999,999,999 |
Angel Lightbringer
Caldari Nexus Shipyards
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 13:35:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Billy Sastard contractscam.jpg
This looks like money laundering to me...
Well you know, given all the stupidity in the world, I can't figure how someone can scam that much, so often.
Quick question, were those items all offered at the same amount? If so, looks more than suspicious... |
Doctor Penguin
Amarr Celestial Ascension Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 13:36:00 -
[53]
If you're bothered about the scam, I have a [Proposals] thread on the Alliance Hall about this scam.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1053491
It appears that there are two sides of the debate here. Some people want anti-spam measures introduced, whereas some want to tackle the contract scam head on. |
Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 13:39:00 -
[54]
I would just like to thank the OP for wasting CCP's time with something that was already known to be a part of the game. It even mention's it on the back of the retail box ¼_¼
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 13:52:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Billy Sastard contractscam.jpg
This looks like money laundering to me...
Absolutely. Sad that CCP neither has the manpower nor any interest in investigating such stuff.
I highly doubt it has anything to do with RMT. Every time I go to Amarr that person is spamming those same contracts in local, even the ones that had been completed. None of the characters that were scammed look like obvious alts, either. It's what it looks like; a 23/7 spam macro that has net someone over 10bil in a week.
But that is exactly the point!
You can so easily hide the RMT and isk selling in between all those mind-boggling amounts of spam scams. Game mechanics makes it so easy for the RMT people here. You would need really lots of manpower to sort out the scammers from the RMT and money landering. |
Cerebus Alteri
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 14:01:00 -
[56]
the only thing i am worried about in the long run. is this growing out of hand.
alot of players earn their iskies mining, missioning, trading, pirating, ratting and they do it with "hard" work and they do it "honestly".
this contract scam biz puts all the isk printing myths and reality to shame. make an alt run an macro make a few contracts to spam and make billions in the weeks. and you never have to leave station, you never have to buy anything. or put any active brainpower or action into anything.
so with all the pluses how soon till half of eve is doing the same thing? yea its been going on for a long time but in some far off mythical land known as jita, where most newish players never set foot, hell you can go your first year about in game and never have even been to jita. but now this has spead out far and wide across the land. and when the spammers are actually near their pc occasionally they will brag about the amount of isk they make in local.
i mean are us honest gamers doing whatever we like to do just stupid? we should all be making macros and spammming and parting isk from greedy or stupid, or true noobs that do not know better people.
i do not mind it now, but if it starts growing and you go from 10 to 15 scammers in these minor hubs and you suddenly got 20 30 40 just trying to cash in on the success. then the current spam will look like child's play. nevermind that's a number of bodies sitting in a mission hub, spamming local taking up server resources and not doing anything but taking up space and parting idiots from their isk.
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Othran
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 14:16:00 -
[57]
Scamming is allowed but what IS an exploit is recycling the alts. ie - you use an alt for a scam like this one then that alt stays on your account FOREVER. You delete it then that's an exploit and you are banned.
Now should we all start petitioning the recycled alts involved in this CCP? I wouldn't have thought that would help anyone but if that's what it takes to stem the scam spam that is EVERYWHERE in high-sec now, never mind regional trade hubs.....
Or perhaps a slight change to the UI would be in everyone's interests. What do you think CCP?
Skillful scamming is a positive factor in the game. This 999 spam scam cr@p isn't.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 14:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Othran Now should we all start petitioning the recycled alts involved in this CCP?
You probably could. The question is, how do you know it's a recycled alt? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
FlyinS
Caldari Planetary Industry and Trade Organization
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 14:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Neo Omni
I have lived in both, so yes I know what you mean. Currently I live in a small town where people still leave their front doors and cars unlocked.
What town? I uh...want to come visit. To see if I want to live there.
Yeah that's it.
|
Chris Liath
Gallente Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 14:44:00 -
[60]
You can do whatever you want in order to attain power. Just keep it within the game's mechanics.
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. |
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Ma'kal
Caldari SUNDERING Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 14:46:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Ma''kal on 22/04/2009 14:48:03
Originally by: Malcanis
Sort by price. Even if you're too dumb to read, your PC will have no problem seperating 999,999.99 fro 999,999,999
This should be sent to everyone that complains they are being scammed. I never understood how someone could be scammed when they can read the darn price. IMO when they fix this Devs are chipping away at there dumb person filter.
When you say, "Oh poor me I was scammed". That is only because you don't want to face the really truth. You just did something that was dumb and you don't want to take responsibility. |
Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 14:55:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Cerebus Alteri the only thing i am worried about in the long run. is this growing out of hand.
alot of players earn their iskies mining, missioning, trading, pirating, ratting and they do it with "hard" work and they do it "honestly".
this contract scam biz puts all the isk printing myths and reality to shame. make an alt run an macro make a few contracts to spam and make billions in the weeks. and you never have to leave station, you never have to buy anything. or put any active brainpower or action into anything.
so with all the pluses how soon till half of eve is doing the same thing? yea its been going on for a long time but in some far off mythical land known as jita, where most newish players never set foot, hell you can go your first year about in game and never have even been to jita. but now this has spead out far and wide across the land. and when the spammers are actually near their pc occasionally they will brag about the amount of isk they make in local.
i mean are us honest gamers doing whatever we like to do just stupid? we should all be making macros and spammming and parting isk from greedy or stupid, or true noobs that do not know better people.
i do not mind it now, but if it starts growing and you go from 10 to 15 scammers in these minor hubs and you suddenly got 20 30 40 just trying to cash in on the success. then the current spam will look like child's play. nevermind that's a number of bodies sitting in a mission hub, spamming local taking up server resources and not doing anything but taking up space and parting idiots from their isk.
it will grow out of hand..that is guaranteed.
Thing is, it's very easy to fix. A few adjustments to the contract scheme to make it clearly decipherable at a glance and prevent conflicting information...and you are done.
There will always be scams...but like I said, EVE doesn't have to make it easy for you to create one.
But if this is the way CCP wants to play the game...oh well.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 15:00:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Ma'kal Edited by: Ma''kal on 22/04/2009 14:48:03
Originally by: Malcanis
Sort by price. Even if you're too dumb to read, your PC will have no problem seperating 999,999.99 fro 999,999,999
This should be sent to everyone that complains they are being scammed. I never understood how someone could be scammed when they can read the darn price. IMO when they fix this Devs are chipping away at there dumb person filter.
When you say, "Oh poor me I was scammed". That is only because you don't want to face the really truth. You just did something that was dumb and you don't want to take responsibility.
It's not that people are dumb, it's that the traps are set for reading mistakes. I go through alot of contracts...alot of reading. Eventually you lose track of something important in one (be it you misread the number of 9s or something) and you accept it only to find you have been scammed because you missed something important. Having screened 20 other contracts before, your eyes, thought process was off for one second. That is what the scammers are aiming at. Your fatigue, not your intelligence.
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Ma'kal
Caldari SUNDERING Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 15:20:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Neo Omni
It's not that people are dumb, it's that the traps are set for reading mistakes. I go through alot of contracts...alot of reading. Eventually you lose track of something important in one (be it you misread the number of 9s or something) and you accept it only to find you have been scammed because you missed something important. Having screened 20 other contracts before, your eyes, thought process was off for one second. That is what the scammers are aiming at. Your fatigue, not your intelligence.
I didn't call people dumb, I said they did a dumb action. If you are too tired to read the contract maybe you should log off and take a nap or do something else for a bit.
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Hariya
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 15:49:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Neo Omni It's not that people are dumb, it's that the traps are set for reading mistakes. I go through alot of contracts...alot of reading. Eventually you lose track of something important in one (be it you misread the number of 9s or something) and you accept it only to find you have been scammed because you missed something important. Having screened 20 other contracts before, your eyes, thought process was off for one second. That is what the scammers are aiming at. Your fatigue, not your intelligence.
It's not that people are dumb, it's just that the weapons are set for killing people who make mistakes. I go though alot of low sew...a lot of dying. Eventually you lose track of something important in one (be it enabling your active tank or something) and you enter the fight only to find you have been killed because you missed something important. Having fought 20 other pvpers before, your brain, thought process was off one second. That is what the killers are aimint at. Your fatigue, not your intelligence.
This guy is constant comedy gold mine to the forums, please donate him some in-game ISK for it. K thx bye
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Revelation Space
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 15:58:00 -
[66]
The guy in Dodixie locla spamming:
omg I bought the wrong implant and need to sell it cheap...
...and then listing it at 399,999,999 is amusing. However at the contracts completed, it's shocking how many fall for it.
Someone even fell for the:
give me half a billion ISK plus a navy Mega and I'll give you a Mega.
/facepalm |
Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 15:59:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Neo Omni
Originally by: Cerebus Alteri maybe they need a tutorial intro that goes something like...
"If something seems too good to be true in eve be it contracts and trades and "free isk" 95% of the time it is too good be true, this applies to real life as well. If you accept these deals more than likely you are going to lose money."
end tutorial.
that should sum it up, if people not learned this lesson themselves by the time they hop into eve, then i dunno how they get along in life generally.
Believe it or not, not all places in the world are cut-throat in disposition.
I have lived in both, so yes I know what you mean. Currently I live in a small town where people still leave their front doors and cars unlocked.
It's just that CCP makes such issues about exploits, and this surely seems more like an exploit than game play.
And you haven't robbed them yet!? ... Noob. |
AmarrCitizen32897
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 16:22:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Neo Omni
Originally by: Kyle Langdon Don't you think that if they didn't condone it they would have put an end to it already?
Not at the rate they fix things.
End of thread. |
Da Death
Minmatar Relentless Enterprises
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 16:25:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ma'kal
Originally by: Neo Omni
It's not that people are dumb, it's that the traps are set for reading mistakes. I go through alot of contracts...alot of reading. Eventually you lose track of something important in one (be it you misread the number of 9s or something) and you accept it only to find you have been scammed because you missed something important. Having screened 20 other contracts before, your eyes, thought process was off for one second. That is what the scammers are aiming at. Your fatigue, not your intelligence.
I didn't call people dumb, I said they did a dumb action. If you are too tired to read the contract maybe you should log off and take a nap or do something else for a bit.
In the future there will be so many contracts scams that you yourself have to log off WITHOUT having found the right contracts BECAUSE your so tired of reading scams, that you will be UNABLE to play eve in a TIMELY fashion.
There is no justification to help/protect/stay on the side of scammers by saying: "Everyone who gets scammed is an idiots, n00b..etc" , other then you are a scammer yourself (and that I call out to everyone who objects to scam-proof contracts. Yes, I know nobody can make it scam proof BUT you can make it 'a little harder'!)
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 16:41:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Billy Sastard contractscam.jpg
This looks like money laundering to me...
Absolutely. Sad that CCP neither has the manpower nor any interest in investigating such stuff.
I highly doubt it has anything to do with RMT. Every time I go to Amarr that person is spamming those same contracts in local, even the ones that had been completed. None of the characters that were scammed look like obvious alts, either. It's what it looks like; a 23/7 spam macro that has net someone over 10bil in a week.
But that is exactly the point!
You can so easily hide the RMT and isk selling in between all those mind-boggling amounts of spam scams.
I'm sure you can. The point is, It's pretty damn unlikely in this case - almost all the contracts were completed by perfectly normal-looking players. It's way more likely that those are actually legit scams. |
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 16:42:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 22/04/2009 16:43:04
Originally by: Neo Omni I asked a question...I got an answer:
start message------------------------ Please do not post GM correspondence. Navigator
So there is nothing more to be said.
LOL, I'd love to know what he said, but it seems everyone who wants to know will need to post a petition because those who have done so cannot share the answer. |
Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 17:02:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 22/04/2009 16:43:04
Originally by: Neo Omni I asked a question...I got an answer:
start message------------------------ Please do not post GM correspondence. Navigator
So there is nothing more to be said.
LOL, I'd love to know what he said, but it seems everyone who wants to know will need to post a petition because those who have done so cannot share the answer.
*sigh*
He basically said that contract scams are fine.
Hey navigator, did you notice I removed the GM's name from the correspondence? So what is so top secret about a GM saying it's cool to contract scam?
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Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 17:07:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Hariya
Originally by: Neo Omni It's not that people are dumb, it's that the traps are set for reading mistakes. I go through alot of contracts...alot of reading. Eventually you lose track of something important in one (be it you misread the number of 9s or something) and you accept it only to find you have been scammed because you missed something important. Having screened 20 other contracts before, your eyes, thought process was off for one second. That is what the scammers are aiming at. Your fatigue, not your intelligence.
It's not that people are dumb, it's just that the weapons are set for killing people who make mistakes. I go though alot of low sew...a lot of dying. Eventually you lose track of something important in one (be it enabling your active tank or something) and you enter the fight only to find you have been killed because you missed something important. Having fought 20 other pvpers before, your brain, thought process was off one second. That is what the killers are aimint at. Your fatigue, not your intelligence.
This guy is constant comedy gold mine to the forums, please donate him some in-game ISK for it. K thx bye
AHAHAHA!!! You're an ass. Ahahahah!!!
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 18:10:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Tippia on 22/04/2009 18:11:29
Originally by: Neo Omni It's not that people are dumb, it's that the traps are set for reading mistakes. I go through alot of contracts...alot of reading. Eventually you lose track of something important in one (be it you misread the number of 9s or something) and you accept it only to find you have been scammed because you missed something important.
No, that's still just people being dumb.
If you see that kind of contract, you should train your brain to instinctively say "meh, scam, next!" If, in spite of the humogous odds against it, it still sticks in your mind as something that isactually legit, consider that it's essentially just a 1-isk undercut and ask yourself "am I willing to wager saving one measly ISK against the chance that I'm still not reading this price right and end up paying 1,000+ the actual cost?" And if you say yes to this, you do a quick contract search for the item in question, sort by price and buy it from the lowest available there… because it may just turn out that your (supposed) 1-isk underbid has been beaten by another seller already.
In short, it doesn't matter how hard it is to read or how easy it is to let your mind wander: a legit contract will not look like that, so why even bother with one that does? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Doppleganger
Minmatar Libera Mentem Tuam
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 18:34:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Da Death
In the future there will be so many contracts scams that you yourself have to log off WITHOUT having found the right contracts BECAUSE your so tired of reading scams, that you will be UNABLE to play eve in a TIMELY fashion.
Before contracts Eve had another system sort of like it and something like 90% of it was spam and scams as well. Its been going on like that for 6+ yrs now so I doubt things will change. Contracts I think were suppose to cut down on this kind of stuff but it was only a matter of time before ppl figured out a better way to do it with the newer system.
I myself couldn't use the old system cause I got sick of reading it for 45 mins trying to read around all the scams... contracts have become the same thing. If I really need something off contract system I don't only read it myself a few times but I link the contract up to my corpmates and have them look over it as well to make sure I didn't misread something or mis the scam part of it. Other then that contract are really only handy for trading things back and forth to ppl you know and trust.
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Bellac
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 18:36:00 -
[76]
Heres my 10p on the subject.
This week I found myself in a hub system for the first time in a while (Amarr) and the spam sales messages are flowing as usual - and while I was there 99% (no exageration) of the contracts spammed in local were bogus. (the most common was trying to sell something that was in fact a 9 digit value not the advertised 6 digit value)
I completely support the general principle that it should be "Buyer Beware" but I also feel this is getting out of hand. The example just above of sphwwttt (or whatever the name is) is a perfect example of players spamming huge sums of money over large numbers of contracts. The real problem is that these people are hiding behind NPC corperations to do this.
If I were a local seller I would be totaly p'd off at the large number of duff contracts as there is nothing the legitimate seller can do to put an end to this. There is in fact nothing that anyone can do to put an end to this. I feel that this is wrong as it destroys customer confidence in the market.
Maybe its time for intervention in the contract system from the devs - maybe not - but either way I think these contractors hiding behind NPC Corperations has to come to an end. Surely that wouldnt be too hard to impiment?
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Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 19:23:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Doppleganger
Before contracts Eve had another system sort of like it and something like 90% of it was spam and scams as well. Its been going on like that for 6+ yrs now so I doubt things will change. Contracts I think were suppose to cut down on this kind of stuff but it was only a matter of time before ppl figured out a better way to do it with the newer system.
The escrow system was not that bad at all... scams were not even 1/100th as prolific as the garbage we have going on today, and those who were very successful at it did it through creative means. The courier contracts were indeed all pure scams, but otherwise the lists were fairly clean as you could not effectively mask your prices. And it was not a contributor of spam. Jita and other trade hubs were full of chatter from people passing the time while they waited for their item hangars to load .
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 19:27:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Ruze Ahkor''Murkon on 22/04/2009 19:27:06
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Doppleganger
Before contracts Eve had another system sort of like it and something like 90% of it was spam and scams as well. Its been going on like that for 6+ yrs now so I doubt things will change. Contracts I think were suppose to cut down on this kind of stuff but it was only a matter of time before ppl figured out a better way to do it with the newer system.
The escrow system was not that bad at all... scams were not even 1/100th as prolific as the garbage we have going on today, and those who were very successful at it did it through creative means. The courier contracts were indeed all pure scams, but otherwise the lists were fairly clean as you could not effectively mask your prices. And it was not a contributor of spam. Jita and other trade hubs were full of chatter from people passing the time while they waited for their item hangars to load .
In Rens and Minnie space, the escrow was plenty clean. I once made a trip to Yulai or Jita, don't remember which one it was at the time, and the escrow there was miserable.
Course, we couldn't go between regions with escrow, either.
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Doppleganger
Minmatar Libera Mentem Tuam
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Posted - 2009.04.22 19:45:00 -
[79]
Escrow thats what it was called... thank you.
I don't know I think the reason that escrow didn't seem as bad is because there were alot less ppl in game back then. From what I remember it was not bad when it started then slowly got so bad it became unusable kind of like contracts are becoming.
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Black Leather
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 19:48:00 -
[80]
A few simple steps:
1) Close local
2) Open contract tab
3) browse contracts
4) Bid or buy
What I would like to see implemented, though, is a larger block list limit. Being that I spend a lot of time in Jita and Amarr buying Cap construction bps and have maxed my block list, it's tough to have a simple chat with the locals.
And before someone mentions to clear my block list, try opening yours. Guaranteed to lock up the game for more that a few minutes :(
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Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 00:49:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 23/04/2009 00:55:37
Originally by: Doppleganger Escrow thats what it was called... thank you.
I don't know I think the reason that escrow didn't seem as bad is because there were alot less ppl in game back then. From what I remember it was not bad when it started then slowly got so bad it became unusable kind of like contracts are becoming.
The end game of EVE is more people, more players which means for isk for CCP. If you have a wing of players that are very interested in the business end of EVE but find that the tools for business are broken and worse, the dysfunction is accepted as normal game play...then you have people leaving EVE.
I myself am on my way out. I enjoy the more cerbral aspects of this game, but the spamming of scam contracts is too much.
Bounty is broken Contracts are broken In station trading is broken Can flipping in hi-sec? WTF is that all about? Broken.
Other than pew-pew...most everything else is broken.
Where is the fun there CCP?
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 01:08:00 -
[82]
for all the people complaining that they should make it easier to read, i completely disagree. Scamming, while obnoxious in local chat, is quite useful in weeding out the idiots.
You won't be scammed if you SEARCH contracts yourself because then you know exactly what you're looking at without worrying about a tech 1 shield booster replacing your precious gist x-type xl shield boosters =/
I was personally very dissapointed when they nerfed freeforms... Coulda just made plex's non linkable...
And I say this having mates who have been scammed, and I don't scam (but i intend to ) Suicide ganking in between amarr and jita is also a favorite past time
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 01:09:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Mr Ignitious on 23/04/2009 01:09:50 forum kickin' ma butt
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Kuronaga
The Drekla Consortium Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 01:19:00 -
[84]
I like how the ones who consistently complain about scams are the ones who can't seem to read. This must be a very large margin of players if its such a huge problem.
What would you prefer CCP do?
Read the contracts for you like your mommy read you story books when you were a child?
Please.
There comes a point when a mans gota take responsibility for his own stupid choices. Besides, eve is like a sci-fi representation of many real life business practices.
In real life, there are scammers.
Many of them.
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Valor Anselmo
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 01:53:00 -
[85]
EVE is an online alternate reality...
...you can get scammed in real-life if youre not careful, i think its perfectly just that you can get scammed in EVE.
Youll pick up great life skills, like reading the fine-print
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DasDizzy
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.04.23 02:32:00 -
[86]
Edited by: DasDizzy on 23/04/2009 02:34:41 I hereby quote the 190eth rule of acquisition for it has relevancy to this thread: Hear all, trust nothing [SIG START]
Everything i say is the view of the rest of the eve cluster, IM THE PRESSDUDE FFS
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Rathelm
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 02:48:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Valor Anselmo EVE is an online alternate reality...
...you can get scammed in real-life if youre not careful, i think its perfectly just that you can get scammed in EVE.
Youll pick up great life skills, like reading the fine-print
However even in real life government intervenes when the fine print becomes obtuse. I have no problems with CCP allowing scamming, but I do think the contract system could use a couple of tweaks to make it more legible. First is 499,999,999 should have a (499 million) following it to make it easier to skim across the contract. It's a hassle to constantly count how many numbers are in a number. Secondly it needs to be made much clearer whether you are paying or receiving cash in a contract. The current system is silly. If you're receiving cash it should be on the bottom of the contract and if you're paying cash it should be where it currently is. That way, once again, at a glance you can see what's going on. Lastly courier contracts should give you the option to see exactly what you are shipping. This way you know exactly how much the collateral should be and if someone is trying to screw you on the lack of this knowledge.
These changes won't completely eliminate scamming, however anything that makes it harder on the scammers is better for the rest of us. It would be nice if the majority of contracts you could assume were valid as opposed to now you assume they're a scam.
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Cerebus Alteri
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Posted - 2009.04.23 03:00:00 -
[88]
technically in real life a scammer living in your apartment block scamming all his neighbors would sooner or later be arrested for fraud and theft.
so if eve was a true mirror of real life concord would be busting these people left and right, they also would be busting the people that sell illegal drugs on the empire markets lol. oh and suicide gankers would not be running around free.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.04.23 03:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kuronaga I like how the ones who consistently complain about scams are the ones who can't seem to read.
No, that's not the issue. I am not hoping to save the idiots who get scammed, I am hoping to starve the scammers who are spamming the hubs with so much garbage that what was once a valid tool for legitimate advertising is completely ruined.
Originally by: Kuronaga What would you prefer CCP do?
Read the contracts for you like your mommy read you story books when you were a child?
Please.
Speaking of can't seem to read...
Ever write a real-life cheque? (Or watch your Mommy when she writes one?) There's a reason that we write "One thousand dollars___________$1000.00" on them and there is no valid reason Eve can not include the same simple clarity in it's uber-advanced future-tech trading system that we expected from a hand-scrawled pen-on-wood-shavings financial instrument in the 1900s.
That's all we're talking about here: clarity. There were scams before this and there will be scams after this for all those internet-spaceship social Darwinists, this though, this is just annoying, spamifacient sloppiness.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 04:54:00 -
[90]
Thank you all for those that support simple minor changes to the contract system in EVE.
Thank you all to those that don't support it as well, as you are the ones benefiting from this exploit that has been labeled by CCP as "normal gameplay."
Look, I'm all for criminal activity and scamming in this game called EVE.
BUT
When it's made easier for the criminal element to progress and there is given no reciprocating balance to the non-criminal elements to counteract this behavior, then the game becomes a chore...and stops being FUN!!!
That is the bottom line.
The 4 things I would like to see changed:
a) Contract clarification (already explained) b) Courier contract scam (unable to dock at stations and losing your collateral) c) Can flipping in hi-sec (victim should be able to call Concord on thief) d) Bounty Hunting (presently a joke)
The 4 things I mentioned all currently benefit the pirate/criminal...but there is nothing for the non-pirate/criminal to counteract these so-call features that are really just exploits from poor planning and coding.
EVE ads boast pew-pew AND all the other non-pew-pew related aspects such as the economy and business ventures.
Well..the pew-pew works fine. But the other stuff is broke.
Presently two accounts, mine and my corp mate's are counting down to expiration.
Why?
Because what we thought as fun aspects of the game dont work.
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Angelos
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Posted - 2009.04.23 05:55:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Chinwe Rhei I don't mind the scams so much as the spam.
Agreed, the constant local chatter over obvious scams and the resulting responses from others in local pointing out the obvious scams is a tad annoying.
Considering how easy it is to trick idiots, I considered getting into scamming. Then I remembered I'm not a total richard.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.04.23 06:02:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Neo Omni
c) Can flipping in hi-sec (victim should be able to call Concord on thief)
Remove this from your list if you want to be taken seriously. Nobody cares about can flipping, and the only thing that needs to be changed about criminal flagging from cans is to make can ownership an option.
People laughed at the "carebears" when CCP implemented that stupid system and can flipping was born, when it was CCP's fault for implemented in poorly in the first place.
If I don't want my cans to be yellow (ie: anyone can take them freely) then I should have that choice.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 07:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Neo Omni Bounty is broken
Yes.
Quote: Contracts are broken
No.
Quote: In station trading is broken
Not really.
Quote: Can flipping in hi-sec? WTF is that all about? Broken.
No.
1/4, and the one thing that is broken is largely irrelevant and not the topic of the thread. So where were you going with this? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
AncientLord
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Posted - 2009.04.23 07:34:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Bullageddon Scamming is PVP
EVE is PVP based
Welcome to EVE.
Ahahahaha, what a ****ing retarted.
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Hath Rator
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Posted - 2009.04.23 11:03:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Neo Omni
Presently two accounts, mine and my corp mate's are counting down to expiration.
Why?
Because what we thought as fun aspects of the game dont work.
Can I have your stuff?
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.04.23 11:28:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Tippia
Quote: In station trading is broken
Not really.
Unless they fixed the delete-a-zero-and-accept lagsploits very recently then it still is.
And while I respect your opinion that contracts aren't broken, you have to admit the inconsistency in the way the numbers are presented between contracts and practically everything else in-game.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Inquisitor Cerberuso
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Posted - 2009.04.23 12:10:00 -
[97]
my view
See I can understand that it can be argued as good to root out the stupid people who fall for scams, but this only works so far, before you kill off everyone..
Many people seem to be using evolution as an excuse to keep things as they are, whihc only works to a point, a RL example, climate gets hotter, animals adapt over time, but too much increase and you kill the lot.. Its the same with these scams I think, a few of them no problem, people adapt, but too many of them and you just drive people away and that is bad for eve
Another point while I think that scamming maybe ok in general, spamming is out of control, the spamming in local makes this channel useless for legit traders trying to sell their wares, as it just undermines customer confidence, again bad for eve in general, I mean look what happened in real life with the markets slowed right down because no-one could trust anyone?!
This latest scam, which I will call the 999 scam, is far too easy to do, I like to see creative 'crime' like the pirates using orcas to do hit and runs, thats creative, this is just a dumb players 'easy mode' of making isk, and it needs to stop or be controlled before its too late
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Cerebus Alteri
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Posted - 2009.04.23 12:34:00 -
[98]
if players could call concord on people, then gods i could see goons all fixing their sec status and moving back to empire and having a jolly ole time of it reporting people. it would be hilarious.
the only happy medium i could see is possibly having a player based "policing" system with very limited ability to remove someone's local chat rights or something. still room for abuse however. but it is very cut and dry in the trade hubs who are the scammers, not like it is hard to sort them out.
but calling concord on people lol that would be a disaster. and not sure there is any real solution to the problem, doing whatever to make contracts read clearer i guess would help, but every time i look it takes like 2 seconds to see they left a few 0s or 9s off then looking to buy and added a few when looking to sell. i do not want ccp wasting time or resources on this stuff however.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.23 13:41:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 23/04/2009 13:43:52 Edited by: Neo Omni on 23/04/2009 13:43:13
Originally by: Cerebus Alteri if players could call concord on people, then gods i could see goons all fixing their sec status and moving back to empire and having a jolly ole time of it reporting people. it would be hilarious.
the only happy medium i could see is possibly having a player based "policing" system with very limited ability to remove someone's local chat rights or something. still room for abuse however. but it is very cut and dry in the trade hubs who are the scammers, not like it is hard to sort them out.
but calling concord on people lol that would be a disaster. and not sure there is any real solution to the problem, doing whatever to make contracts read clearer i guess would help, but every time i look it takes like 2 seconds to see they left a few 0s or 9s off then looking to buy and added a few when looking to sell. i do not want ccp wasting time or resources on this stuff however.
Actually it would not be calling concord on people, but on flashy red people only. Rt click on the perp, "report to concord" and watch the fun. It's not called hi-sec for nothing.
Originally by: Hath Rator
Originally by: Neo Omni
Presently two accounts, mine and my corp mate's are counting down to expiration.
Why?
Because what we thought as fun aspects of the game dont work.
Can I have your stuff?
NO! Im keeping it. Maybe CCp will wise up in the future, but until then Im not financing them. Until then, I'll be looking for another sci-fi mmo.
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Spaceman Jack
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Posted - 2009.04.23 13:44:00 -
[100]
In the mean time CCP, can you at least release a hotfix that will make people read the contracts better?
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Doppleganger
Minmatar Libera Mentem Tuam
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:01:00 -
[101]
I have never been caught by a scam but thats because I believe everything I see listed is a scam until I can prove otherwise. If it was up to me I wouldn't fix contracts but I would add divisions to personal wallets. That way you keep the bulk of your isk in one division and set another division for purchases. You only put isk in the purchasing part of the wallet when you want to buy something and then you could only put in as much as you want to spend. It would go a long way to help... this is what I do using the corp wallet divisions with my alt's 2 man corp and that toon does most of my purchasing for me. I mean corp wallets have divisions why not personal wallets?
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:07:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Doppleganger I have never been caught by a scam but thats because I believe everything I see listed is a scam until I can prove otherwise. If it was up to me I wouldn't fix contracts but I would add divisions to personal wallets. That way you keep the bulk of your isk in one division and set another division for purchases. You only put isk in the purchasing part of the wallet when you want to buy something and then you could only put in as much as you want to spend. It would go a long way to help... this is what I do using the corp wallet divisions with my alt's 2 man corp and that toon does most of my purchasing for me. I mean corp wallets have divisions why not personal wallets?
For the same reason we don't have separate personal hangars. BECAUSE OF NO REASON AT ALL
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 15:11:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Tippia
Quote: In station trading is broken
Not really.
Unless they fixed the delete-a-zero-and-accept lagsploits very recently then it still is.
No, that means it is buggy, not broken, and that also means that you can report anyone who exploits this bug to get him kicked in the groin and to get your money back…
Broken would mean that it doesn't serve its purpose. Bounties, for instance, are broken because they don't serve the purpose of making a person hunted (it just gives him/his alt some nice cash and/or a badge of honour). Contracts are not broken because they serve their purpose of allowing transfer of goods and money — the fact that some people don't have their wits about them doesn't make the system serve this purpose any less. Can flipping is definitely not broken since it's an intended design. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Cerebus Alteri
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:11:00 -
[104]
the biggest reason for the right click blinky red people and call concord to deal with them for you would be a horrible idea. is it would be abused period.
i could see the oh someone take my can so we can have a duel outside, turning into the gank fest it is now going to the pure pwnage of calling concord to zap the lootee. or if they used it mid fight if they were getting their arse kicked.
ccp gave people to the tools in hi sec to pick their battles or avoid them entirely in 90% of the cases in hi sec. they let the players themselves decide. granted the griefers and flippers and theifs in hi sec never want a fair fight period they are looking for sheep to slaughter.
but calling concord on them is not the answer, get some friends, corp mates etc a deal with them yourselves is. or ignore it entirely.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:24:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Rathelm I have no problems with CCP allowing scamming, but I do think the contract system could use a couple of tweaks to make it more legible.
First is 499,999,999 should have a (499 million) following it to make it easier to skim across the contract. It's a hassle to constantly count how many numbers are in a number.
Secondly it needs to be made much clearer whether you are paying or receiving cash in a contract. The current system is silly. If you're receiving cash it should be on the bottom of the contract and if you're paying cash it should be where it currently is. That way, once again, at a glance you can see what's going on.
Lastly courier contracts should give you the option to see exactly what you are shipping. This way you know exactly how much the collateral should be and if someone is trying to screw you on the lack of this knowledge.
I would welcome these changes, as they still allow people to scam but make it less tedious to check contracts.
Let My People Go |
BillyBob Esq
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:43:00 -
[106]
Everything else aside, since I really couldn't care, include an ignore option on the chat window so that you could just remove all those spam bots from local FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE. No impact to the player if you decide to ban a real person for whatever reason, just a way to make local cleaner. Would seriously help in jita/other big trade hubs, and it's annoying as hell to be flying through a system and suddenly get "getfreeiskonlinefollowthislinkgetfreeiskonlinefollowthislinkgetfreeiskonlinefollowthislinkgetfreeiskonlinefollowthislinkgetfreeiskonlinefollowthislink"
Thank you.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.23 20:40:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 23/04/2009 20:42:07
Originally by: Cerebus Alteri the biggest reason for the right click blinky red people and call concord to deal with them for you would be a horrible idea. is it would be abused period.
i could see the oh someone take my can so we can have a duel outside, turning into the gank fest it is now going to the pure pwnage of calling concord to zap the lootee. or if they used it mid fight if they were getting their arse kicked.
ccp gave people to the tools in hi sec to pick their battles or avoid them entirely in 90% of the cases in hi sec. they let the players themselves decide. granted the griefers and flippers and theifs in hi sec never want a fair fight period they are looking for sheep to slaughter.
but calling concord on them is not the answer, get some friends, corp mates etc a deal with them yourselves is. or ignore it entirely.
Actually I see is as a balancing factor.
Like I said, big bad battle ship decides to flip a can spit out by a Retriever. C'mon...a retriever vs. a battle ship? Again the criminal element has the upper hand. If the battleship knows that concord can be called on them, they will think twice for their actions as there are consequences.
For now, the miner is at the mercy of thieves because there are not consequences.
I would really like to see a balancing of character elements in hi sec.
AND
Concord doesn't necessarily have to blow you up...they could web you, confiscate the stolen item and fine you.
Is it prone to abuse?
Well, contracts are prone to abuse/scams and everyone calls it OK. Think of this as a reverse scam.
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2009.04.23 20:47:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Neo Omni Edited by: Neo Omni on 23/04/2009 20:42:07
Originally by: Cerebus Alteri the biggest reason for the right click blinky red people and call concord to deal with them for you would be a horrible idea. is it would be abused period.
i could see the oh someone take my can so we can have a duel outside, turning into the gank fest it is now going to the pure pwnage of calling concord to zap the lootee. or if they used it mid fight if they were getting their arse kicked.
ccp gave people to the tools in hi sec to pick their battles or avoid them entirely in 90% of the cases in hi sec. they let the players themselves decide. granted the griefers and flippers and theifs in hi sec never want a fair fight period they are looking for sheep to slaughter.
but calling concord on them is not the answer, get some friends, corp mates etc a deal with them yourselves is. or ignore it entirely.
Actually I see is as a balancing factor.
Like I said, big bad battle ship decides to flip a can spit out by a Retriever. C'mon...a retriever vs. a battle ship? Again the criminal element has the upper hand. If the battleship knows that concord can be called on them, they will think twice for their actions as there are consequences.
For now, the miner is at the mercy of thieves because there are not consequences.
I would really like to see a balancing of character elements in hi sec.
AND
Concord doesn't necessarily have to blow you up...they could web you, confiscate the stolen item and fine you.
Is it prone to abuse?
Well, contracts are prone to abuse/scams and everyone calls it OK. Think of this as a reverse scam.
Just stop posting please... --------------------------------------------
Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 20:49:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Just stop posting please...
go to hell. I you dont like it, dont read it ass.
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Cerebus Alteri
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Posted - 2009.04.23 20:58:00 -
[110]
i suppose if ccp spent 2 years redoing the entire concord system, they could make it a little more useful all around. but i am 80% sure it is a bit outside the ability of concord atm to decide what cargo in said offender's hold is in fact stolen.
they can do it with drugs, illegal cargo in empire, but thats a tad different not that system could not be tweaked or modified to be able to read a game log and see that player yarrr has taken xxx minerals out of player sheep's cargo container. but knowing ccp's schedule for new features runs from 2 years to 4 years i personally would rather them spend that time and manpower on planetary battles and such, maybe that is just me tho.
then we got the issue of jet can mining/storage to begin with it was always a kind of loophole in the system to begin with it was never "as intended" but since everyone and their brother used it i think for the sanity of all involved they left it in. and it is fairly recent that removing items from a jet can would flag an offender after much complaining about the old system where they could just steal and there was absolutely nothing you could do.
i suppose you could argue that they take away players "kill rights" entirely and make it that concord intervenes in said theft matters, but that pretty damn imba who would steal at all in that case it would be utter suicide and no amount of ore will make up for that ganking. the kill rights flag was a middle ground that allowed empire players to take retribution if they so chose to. yes it not fair to miners and such but having the unbeatable immortal npcs show up to obiterate them is not exactly sporting at all is it?
low sec or 0.0 you would not even have any options but to warp out with your tail between your legs and eat the loss of ore. or lose your ore and ship and possibly pod in the process. the advantage of high sec is you have options. you can move, you can call your friends/corp mates, you can warp home get a ship and got hunt them down, or you can say gg and go home, and you get to lose an hours worth of jet can mining and keep your ship and pod.
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Hariya
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Posted - 2009.04.24 16:02:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Neo Omni
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Just stop posting please...
go to hell. I you dont like it, dont read it ass.
You're the one who keeps bumping threads with nothing to be discussed anymore. You're the one who makes lame threads daily about the same issue, even though you're obviously flat wrong. You're the one that doesn't give any really solid and plausible argumentation to anything. You go...
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Gekkoh
Caldari Rule of Five The Junta
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Posted - 2009.04.24 20:38:00 -
[112]
This is quite simple:
1. The very fact that so many people fall for this scam means that the contract UI is flawed. The purpose of a UI is to convey information from the computer to the human user with the least amount of error possible. Clearly that's not the case here.
2. Eve doesn't display large numbers consistently. Not even in the contract UI. This adds to the problem in number 1.
3. The only reason for not adding the .00 and (1.99 Billion) parts to the UI are so that more of you can scam people from their ISK using the contract UI. That's a pretty **** poor reason.
4. Fixing this will stop the damned spam, because far less people will fall for it!
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2009.04.24 22:05:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Neo Omni
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Just stop posting please...
go to hell. I you dont like it, dont read it ass.
Reported for calling me an ass, that is a personal attack. --------------------------------------------
Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2009.04.24 22:17:00 -
[114]
This is quite simple:
1. The very fact that so many people use jetcans means that the jetcan is flawed. The purpose of a jetcan is to hold items discarded by people. Clearly that's not the case here.
2. Eve doesn't restrict people from adding items to previously ejected jetcans. This adds to the problem in number 1.
3. The only reason for not restricting people from adding to jettisoned containers is so that more of you can exploit jetcan mechanics to mine easier. That's a pretty **** poor reason.
4. Fixing this will help bring up mineral prices, because far less people will jetcan mine thus bringing up mineral values!
Scamming is a profession like any other, and CCP wants people scamming. Removing one of their few remaning tools would be akin to removing jetcans for miners. --------------------------------------------
Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.24 22:18:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Originally by: Neo Omni
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Just stop posting please...
go to hell. I you dont like it, dont read it ass.
Reported for calling me an ass, that is a personal attack.
Isn't it a personal attack to declare 'I reported you!'
Seems so to me. You could have just reported him. Ah, well.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.25 00:38:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 25/04/2009 00:39:42
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Originally by: Neo Omni
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Just stop posting please...
go to hell. I you dont like it, dont read it ass.
Reported for calling me an ass, that is a personal attack.
It wast a personal attack...it was a public declaration of a fact. Next time post something constructive instead of adolescent BS.
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Gekkoh
Caldari Rule of Five The Junta
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Posted - 2009.04.25 01:06:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts This is quite simple:
Stuff
Scamming is a profession like any other, and CCP wants people scamming. Removing one of their few remaning tools would be akin to removing jetcans for miners.
What you wrote is a straw man argument. This has nothing to do with jet can mining, or the technical details of in-space cargo containers.
I think you replied with what you did because you can't refute the fact that the UI isn't consistent, and obviously isn't doing a very good job at conveying the intended information. If it was, this scam wouldn't be so common, and trade channels wouldn't be so filled with bot spam that they're unusable.
Are you really saying that CCP should purposefully leave in ****ty UI so that lazy unskilled scammers can ply their trade?
If so, that's just a plain stupid reason.
Also, skilled scammers use social engineering, not ****ty UI's. They will always exist, as they should in Eve. Legions of bot ran alts spamming constantly to exploit a UI inconsistency shouldn't be part of any game. It just detracts from the Eve experience.
Eve revolves around PvP, not PvUI.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.25 01:08:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Neo Omni Edited by: Neo Omni on 25/04/2009 00:56:35
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Originally by: Neo Omni
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Just stop posting please...
go to hell. I you dont like it, dont read it ass.
Reported for calling me an ass, that is a personal attack.
It wast a personal attack...it was a public declaration of a fact. Next time post something constructive instead of adolescent BS.
Originally by: Hariya
Originally by: Neo Omni
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Just stop posting please...
go to hell. I you dont like it, dont read it ass.
You're the one who keeps bumping threads with nothing to be discussed anymore. You're the one who makes lame threads daily about the same issue, even though you're obviously flat wrong. You're the one that doesn't give any really solid and plausible argumentation to anything. You go...
...and you come from a two dad household so stfu.
Okay, THOSE were personal attacks.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.25 01:17:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 25/04/2009 01:19:19
Originally by: Gekkoh
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts This is quite simple:
Stuff
Scamming is a profession like any other, and CCP wants people scamming. Removing one of their few remaning tools would be akin to removing jetcans for miners.
What you wrote is a straw man argument. This has nothing to do with jet can mining, or the technical details of in-space cargo containers.
I think you replied with what you did because you can't refute the fact that the UI isn't consistent, and obviously isn't doing a very good job at conveying the intended information. If it was, this scam wouldn't be so common, and trade channels wouldn't be so filled with bot spam that they're unusable.
Are you really saying that CCP should purposefully leave in ****ty UI so that lazy unskilled scammers can ply their trade?
If so, that's just a plain stupid reason.
Also, skilled scammers use social engineering, not ****ty UI's. They will always exist, as they should in Eve. Legions of bot ran alts spamming constantly to exploit a UI inconsistency shouldn't be part of any game. It just detracts from the Eve experience.
Eve revolves around PvP, not PvUI.
Best argument every. Thanks. I'm all for clever scams. Not crappy coding exploits.
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.04.25 18:48:00 -
[120]
Cleaned.
Please post with respect towards fellow players.
Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2009.04.25 22:08:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Neo Omni
Actually I see is as a balancing factor.
Like I said, big bad battle ship decides to flip a can spit out by a Retriever. C'mon...a retriever vs. a battle ship? Again the criminal element has the upper hand. If the battleship knows that concord can be called on them, they will think twice for their actions as there are consequences.
For now, the miner is at the mercy of thieves because there are not consequences.
I would really like to see a balancing of character elements in hi sec.
AND
Concord doesn't necessarily have to blow you up...they could web you, confiscate the stolen item and fine you.
So this is a jet-can mining whine now? You do know that jet-can mining is not supported and could even be called an exploit, right? CCP has clearly stated that jet-can mining was never intended and if you are foolish enough to toss out valuables into a trashcan outside of space then you shouldn't whine like a 5 year old when your stuff that you threw away got stolen.
Said retriever in your example does not have to fire on said battleship. You are free to dock up and get your own battleship or have your corp help you out. You obviously do not understand can flipping mechanics, because the advantage and options CLEARLY favor the person who got flipped, not the can-flipper.
There is a huge difference between someone being real dumb for not reading a contract and clicking accept and being red flashy to duel someone and then the other person right clicks a magic concord button and you lose all of your stuff. If you cannot tell the difference between the two, then there is really no help for you. The good news is that HKO is coming the the US very soon!
Game mechanics may not be what your boring, anti-social self wants, but they are certainly not broken. If you do not like how the rules are, then gtfo and go sign up for HKO.
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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Killiashandra Ree
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Posted - 2009.04.25 23:44:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Killiashandra Ree on 25/04/2009 23:44:42 Just allow us to pick our own display font, and actually scale UI elements, and set our preferred number format.
That would solve a lot of problems.
On a 21" monitor at 1200x1600, its almost impossible to distinguish an 8 from a 9 or a comma from a full stop with EvE's "squared off font" and god knows why we have this silly continental number and date format forced upon us.
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Johho Bulon
Gallente Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2009.04.26 00:20:00 -
[123]
The problem I have here with the parent poster and other bandwagoneers, is that almost all complaints against scamming tend to be on the order of: 'I wish someone would do something about how stupid and/or gullible I am' or 'it wasn't me, the contract accepted itself!'
The UI complaints, the can flips whines etc etc ad nauseum all tend to be proxies for this lame type of argument.
None of the scams that folks tend to whine about are the sort of thing that they ought to fall for, if they took a moment to read the contract, or to consider the fact that someone wants to sell plexes/shuttles/other **** at 25-70% below market buy orders in Jita.
I mean, ffs only a pack of ******s would be desperately trying to lose themselves more money. Behaviour of this nature should set off alarm bells in the mind of anybody who sees it.
But, sadly, enough suckers are sucked in each day to make it worthwhile for the scammers to keep scamming.
I'll admit, it does amuses me to hear folks complain about the current 'favourite' scam, the .999 scam. Just like the rl 419 scam, greedy people fall for things that are too good to be true precisely because their greed blinds them to the brilliant and obvious truth. In fact some of my favourite TV is watching the *******s who fall for obvious scams, appear warning others against falling into the traps 'carefully' laid before them and lamenting the lack of legal recourse against the scammers, with never a thought as to their own involvement except for to extol how entirely passive and undeserving of being taken advantage they were.
And yes the low level stupid scams are annoying, a far cry from the exquisite scam carried out by Istvaan Shogaatsu and the GHSC that inspired me to take a look at this game in the first place.
But Eve is supposed to be a dirty world where you are living on your wits barely able to trust those closest to you.
So, please stop asking CCP to do something that only you can do for yourself. Instead every offer someone makes you, treat it sceptically. Because it only takes a moment to stop and think. ---------------
Once we have a war there is only one thing to do. It must be won. For defeat brings worse things than any that can ever happen in war. -- Ernest Hemingway |
Cerebus Alteri
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Posted - 2009.04.26 01:25:00 -
[124]
well like in jita you can't even read local at all.
most players in game complain more about the spam in general than the actual scamming, and like some posters pointed out running the game at uber high res on lcd monitors and such the numbers are very hard to read.
they could just do a chat entry timer for local chat like you cannot enter a message more than every XX seconds, some games do that to combat spam in local chat. lest then like in jita the bots or macros would not be able to broadcast every 2 seconds their garbage.
adding a .00 to end of prices would be a good way to let people lest see 999,999,001.01 is way too many digits to be 1 million less they cant read or are drunk. also have different font selections/size for contract panel might not be a horrible idea if it is too much bother for ccp.
jita is a absolute mess with the current situation, it is a wall of yellow scam contracts in local chat and the other major hubs might not be far behind with these people bragging how they make billions a week doing this garbage in local. if you can pull down 4 billion+ a month doing this garbage while afk, how long before more people jump on the bandwagon for easy isk.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.04.26 03:33:00 -
[125]
I ignore local and always use the search filter CCP provides so you can filter out the negative amounts (as in, you pay and give the item) and the absurdly overpriced contracts.
Thus, CCP has already provided us with a tool to block 100% of all scam contracts in the Item and Auction categories. So I'm definately in the "only stupid people get scammed" camp.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.27 13:02:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: Neo Omni
Actually I see is as a balancing factor.
Like I said, big bad battle ship decides to flip a can spit out by a Retriever. C'mon...a retriever vs. a battle ship? Again the criminal element has the upper hand. If the battleship knows that concord can be called on them, they will think twice for their actions as there are consequences.
For now, the miner is at the mercy of thieves because there are not consequences.
I would really like to see a balancing of character elements in hi sec.
AND
Concord doesn't necessarily have to blow you up...they could web you, confiscate the stolen item and fine you.
So this is a jet-can mining whine now? You do know that jet-can mining is not supported and could even be called an exploit, right? CCP has clearly stated that jet-can mining was never intended and if you are foolish enough to toss out valuables into a trashcan outside of space then you shouldn't whine like a 5 year old when your stuff that you threw away got stolen.
Said retriever in your example does not have to fire on said battleship. You are free to dock up and get your own battleship or have your corp help you out. You obviously do not understand can flipping mechanics, because the advantage and options CLEARLY favor the person who got flipped, not the can-flipper.
There is a huge difference between someone being real dumb for not reading a contract and clicking accept and being red flashy to duel someone and then the other person right clicks a magic concord button and you lose all of your stuff. If you cannot tell the difference between the two, then there is really no help for you. The good news is that HKO is coming the the US very soon!
Game mechanics may not be what your boring, anti-social self wants, but they are certainly not broken. If you do not like how the rules are, then gtfo and go sign up for HKO.
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Jazzebella
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Posted - 2009.04.27 15:49:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Jazzebella on 27/04/2009 15:53:26 I find this thread to be both funny and sad.
I assume all of you have learned when surfing the web not to click on those banners with the free stuff and respond to the emails from Nigeria wanting to give you 10million dollars for 1 thousand.
Why are you still clicking on these obvious scams, even if they fix this scam, you will just get scammed by someone else because you don't care and take the time to look at what you are doing. If you don't care about your money in game or in real life someone who does will take it from you. Best if you learn this lesson in a game rather then with your own real money.
The people complaining about the scammers reminds me of Family guy where Peter buys any number of things from the con artist just giving him a blank signed check because its such a good thing he must have it be it a car with just a picture of an engine in it or volcano insurance.
Think before you click when your online, and read anything you sign.
Edit: Oh and as for the PvUI LOL the UI does not scam you it does't do anything till someone inputs data. Thats like saying combat isn't PvP because its the missile and not the player that kills me. It is PvP just not with weapons but with your wallet.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.04.27 16:15:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Dav Varan on 27/04/2009 16:17:25 Not a scam. You just over paid cause you wernt paying attention. There no trickery on the part of the seller.
Theres an amount filter on the contracts window.
Set maximum amount to 1M or 10M or whatever seems resonable to never over pay on a contract again.
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Ronha Ottrit
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.27 16:20:00 -
[129]
I think when every contract and half the market listed items are the same stupid 999 scam something needs to be done, because now it's not about being stupid or not reading, it's about the system overflowing with the spam. If I could block everyone who did it I would, but we can't. Maybe that could be a fix.
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Jazzebella
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Posted - 2009.04.27 17:09:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Ronha Ottrit I think when every contract and half the market listed items are the same stupid 999 scam something needs to be done, because now it's not about being stupid or not reading, it's about the system overflowing with the spam. If I could block everyone who did it I would, but we can't. Maybe that could be a fix.
Even if it was every contract which is it not it just means people are willing to pay more for an item or not willing to sell for less because they can.
And people are buying at those prices because people keep making them that high. If people paid attention and didn't buy the overpriced items people would stop selling at those high prices. Just like spam mails, they exist because they work. If no one bought things from spam mail no one would send spam because its a waste of time and resources.
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Minerva Richie
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Posted - 2009.06.02 18:17:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Tippia
Quote: In station trading is broken
Not really.
Unless they fixed the delete-a-zero-and-accept lagsploits very recently then it still is.
No, that means it is buggy, not broken, and that also means that you can report anyone who exploits this bug to get him kicked in the groin and to get your money backą
I sincerely hope this is the case. I was on the receiving end of this "bug" tonight. I'll see if the petition has any effect.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.02 19:45:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon I'd say petition anyway. He's not going to accept a response from the playerbase, and the chances of a GM/Dev reply on the forums are minimal, especially for 'appeal' posts like this one.
By the way ... any of you guys remember the old escrow system? As I was looking up dev posts for Neo here, it crossed my mind. Bit of nostalgia coming up, I guess.
oh hey you're back
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Killer Gandry
Caldari Red Horizon Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.02 20:19:00 -
[133]
Well, just as legal as it is to scam, just as legal is it to check a contract before accepting it. You don't want to be bothered with checking a contract then you shouldn't bother other people with tears because you got scammed.
Scams only work due to people's greed or lazyness.
So basicly when you get scammed and then shed tears about it you just admitted your either a greedy bastard or a lazy bum. Your choice.
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